>Iron Man 1 >"hurr durr, corporations and billionaires

Because people read capeshit comics long enough that they forget what character development looks like.

>>79681549
It actually does make a lot of sense, even if it is basically a complete 180 from his original stance.

I hope they remain consistent with that shit post-CW though.

>another political ideology thread
>again
>on /co/

>>>/pol/

SAGE

File: neshi_the_friendly_bangladeshi.png (102KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 200x200px

>>79681642

It's not an ideology thread dipshit, it's a character arc thread.

>>79681746
When the character arch is so political, it's practically impossible the separate the two.

>>79681875
I'm still not entirely sure what /pol/ is for, but I'm almost certain its not for discussing the moral quandries and geopolitical ramifications of The Avengers.

>>79681549
Because every single fuck up that superheroes have caused has been because of him.
It's Stark the only one they have to control.

I don't think anyone said it didn't

File: 1450301187788.jpg (108KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 500x500px

>>79681549
Clearly we need less government.

>>79681746
NESHI FINDS A WAY

>>79681642
you know sage hasnt worked in a long long time

Tony Stark is the most interesting character in those movies other than Bucky or Starlord

File: sage.jpg (157KB, 1000x669px) Image search: [Google]

157KB, 1000x669px

>>79685288

Does it not? How can or can't you tell?

>>79685386
Thank the writers and director, producers for that.

They literally wasted an entire movie franchise on Iron manlet and his salary

it's more like Ironman's trying to take responsibility for things, starting with his weapons and company in IM1 and growing out of control and attempting to take responsibility for the world in Avengers 2.

Stark was a mistake.

>>79685643
This.

>>79681549
Because apparently it takes five movies of the same old shit from him to finally figure out he needs to be regulated.
At the end of AoU, he didn't feel a shred of guilt over anything he'd done. They're gonna have to pull some serious shit to explain why he suddenly feels guilty.

>>79688012
They'll probably do something like IM3, where they gave him PTSD from the NYC incident. He'll have a couple nightmares about what happened with Ultron and then call up Ross or Talbot or whoever and tell them he's willing to play ball now.

>>79681549
Anyone else get pissed when the Avengers called Tony out on making Ultron and he just laughed it off? Just fucking take responsibility you piece of shit. It's like he know's he's just going to get away with it by the end.

Iron man 1

>Terrorists using Tony's weapons
>Stain using Tony's weapons
No repercussions

Ironman 2

>Hammer using Tony's weapons
>Ivan using Tony's weapons
>Drones kill alot of people

No repercussions

Iron man 3
>Mandarin using tonys weapons
>Tony caused Peirce to be evil
>Many people die

Still repercussion


Avengers age of ultron

>Create ultron
>plans to kill the world

Still no repercussions

But when Steve save s bucky, he has to pay the repercussions? Marvel is stupid

File: iron tears.png (161KB, 315x330px) Image search: [Google]

161KB, 315x330px

>>79689188

But Tony's going to be in the wrong.

I just want the heel realization he's always fucked up and always will, maybe preform a heroic sacrifice.

>>79681549
because that's A) not how it went and B) not how it should go even if it did. you think this one guy is irresponsible with the power he has? Try a massive bureaucracy who has proven time and again that they NEVER make the right choices.

My favorite:
>End of 3
>No one is responsible enough to use the any of the armor but ME.
after all of that.

File: clipart pepe.png (59KB, 499x499px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 499x499px

>Iron Man
>The villains appear to be Middle Eastern terrorists
>No, its actually a white businessman

>Iron Man 2
>The villain appears to be a Slavic terrorist
>No, its actually a white businessman

>Iron Man 3
>The villain appears to be an ambiguously ethnic terrorist
>No, its actually a white businessman

>>79690800
Iron Man 3 was terrible.

It's obvious Shane Black just wanted to make his own movie and tell the rest of the MCU, before and after IM3, to fuck off.

>>79690887
It's almost like an analogy about how the U.S loves to fuck itself.

>>79681549
Maybe because Tony should have come to his current conclusion after Avengers 1.

The thing about MCU Tony Stark is that learning to not be a grossly irresponsible jackass was supposed to be his character arc in Iron Man 1. He is humbled, realizes the error of his ways and in repentance dedicates himself to more altruistic goals. So much so that he feels the rather irrational need to personally stick his neck out as Iron Man.

And then he spent the next five movies becoming even more of an egomaniacal fuckwit. He actually got worse, somehow, to the point of being a danger to others. To the entire world even.

It's not so much that it's unrealistic, swinging too hard in the opposite direction is totally in line with Tony's character, it's simply frustrating. He's just NOW turned over a new leaf and that other characters would even take him remotely seriously, as well as this development apparently happening mostly off screen, is mildly irritating. Really, if Tony wanted to be accountable he'd be in prison.

>>79691488
Well said. I didn't fully understand how bad it really was until AoU. Up until that point, I still liked RDJ Stark. But he was just ridiculous in the Ultron film.

>>79681549
His arc mirrors Steve's too.

>CA: TFA - sees a German spy inside project rebirth, who killed his mentor and friend Dr Erskine.

>the Avengers: Nick Fury, his friend (sorta) was using alien tech to build the same weapons HYDRA had. Then SHIELD's overseers, the world security council, elect to nuke NYC.

>Winter Soldier: SHIELD is corrupt to the teeth with HYDRA insurgents. Bucky, his best friend, is revealed to be a victim of that system and has been used by the head of SHIELD to assassinate hundreds.

>Age of Ultron: The Avengers themselves are put at odds when two of their own make a genocidal murderbot

>Civil War: Cap has seen enough shit to know that authority and oversight by official governing bodies achieves nothing, and can be used for evil if infiltrated by someone with unsavoury intent.

For all the people saying it will be a clusterfuck and they're rushing in, I think they've positioned their characters all too well for this fight.

Tony has seen and learned that they NEED oversight to prevent things like his tech, or Ultron, or the Hulk, going towards harming the people.

Steve has seen that harm come directly from that oversight and authority.

Considering all they've seen and been through, I can understand why they'd fight for those ideals.

>>79691573

I think part of the probem is that basically everybody (myself included) fell in love with RDJ's lovable dickhead routine. When a character is nailed like that in the first go I imagine it would make the people in charge hesitant to mess with the formula in anyway for fear of alienating fans. You don't fix what isn't broken, after all. Except that Tony's character is based around the idea that he's broken and needs fixing. He has to stop being an egotistical asshole, to grow up and redeem himself, to change. Except being an egotistical asshole is largely what people like about him in the first place.

>>79688012
Is Tony really likely to show his deep emotions to someone like Cap or Thor? Or is he likely to go full bravado mode and shrug it off, get in a Lamborghini and drive off into the sunset with a martini and bitches?

He'd tell pepper how he feels, maybe Rodey and that's it.

>>79691930
this

it's basically the MCU version of Wolverine and Scott right now

File: tantrum.jpg (33KB, 600x399px) Image search: [Google]

33KB, 600x399px

>>79681642
>STOP TALKING ABOUT THINGS I DON'T UNDERSTAND

Age of Ultron made no god-damn sense. In Iron Man 3 Tony came to the realization that he was secluding and shielding himself from the world throughout all the different armors and that he needed to face his demons and rid himself of the clutch that was Iron Man.

Then in Age of Ultron he decided to cocoon the whole world with an homicidal IA just because he had a bad dream. Total character regression.

>>79692482
Yeah they're just retreading the same single film worth of character development over and over.
Civil War really needs to sacrifice Tony. Prison or death, they've shown the limits of what they can do with the character.

>>79693185
Calling it now.

Civil war will end with a montage of images intercut between Cap dying in a cell from his injuries as government agents try to save him, Tony star delivering a press conference announcing he quits as iron man and the Avengers are officially no more, Clint, Wanda, Scott, Peter Parker and Falcon in a room standing around a bloody Shield, before Bucky walks in with an amalgamation of his black winter soldier gear and Caps uniform, grabs the Shield and slings it over his shoulder before saying "let's roll out." Or something.

>>79689032
That wasn't what I got out of that scene. Tony's ready to have a good cry when Cap calls him out, but turns it into a forced laugh instead because he doesn't want to seem weak. He knows he fucked up, but he can't make himself admit it and lose face in front of the team.

To me it showed that MCU Tony is a major sperg when it comes to showing genuine feelings and remorse in front of other people, apart from Pepper, and maybe Rhodey.

>>79690887
Because Murica is the one true villain to all other countries but Murica anon.

>>79681549
I mean you got some details wrong, namely Nick Fury selling weapons that shit doesn't happen, but overall I agree. Tony's arc (hehe) is pretty clearly laid out by each movie he's in.

I feel like a lot of people that argue against Tony being pro-government now only remember the first 10 minutes of Iron Man 2.

File: 36475687678.jpg (95KB, 500x332px) Image search: [Google]

95KB, 500x332px

>>79690887
>Iron Man 1 2 3
>The hero is a white businessman.

>>79681549
You pointed out the morals of almost all of the movies. Tony Stark starts off naive and foolish and arrogant, and learns his lesson. Character arc, shocking!

>>79689188
>Terrorists using Tony's weapons
>Stain using Tony's weapons
>No repercussions
Did you miss the part where Tony got removed from the company? It was all Stane and SHIELD could prove it thanks to Pepper.

>Hammer using Tony's weapons
>Ivan using Tony's weapons
>Drones kill alot of people
>No repercussions
What repercussions should Tony face for people knocking off his tech? He gave a suit to Rhodey in that movie.

>Mandarin using tonys weapons
>Tony caused Peirce to be evil
>Many people die
>Still [no] repercussion
It's not illegal to be a dick and the Mandarin didn't use Tony's weapons, they stole the military's suit. Remember AIM being a privately funded government think tank and redesigning the Iron Patriot themselves?

>Create ultron
>plans to kill the world
>Still no repercussions
The repercussions are the UN effectively owning Tony's ass.

And yes, Cap gets in trouble for saving a known terrorist after he's turned in his shield and isn't allowed to super hero anymore.

What was your point again?

>>79695124
That's because Tony pissing on the government in the start is a good scene, and IM 2 wasn't a very good movie, so people just remember that one scene.

>>79690888
What's inconsistent at all about IM3 in relation to the MCU?

>>79691488
>The thing about MCU Tony Stark is that learning to not be a grossly irresponsible jackass was supposed to be his character arc in Iron Man 1. He is humbled, realizes the error of his ways and in repentance dedicates himself to more altruistic goals. So much so that he feels the rather irrational need to personally stick his neck out as Iron Man.
A quest for personal revenge and getting your weapons out of terrorist hands isn't exactly the same as being altruistic. The only error he comited was being duped by his mentor/father figure.

His arc in the first movie is just that he learns to take personal responsibility for shit with his name on it. He was pissed that terrorists had Stark weapons immediately, that never changed or developed. He doesn't really have an arc besides "I should be Iron Man, fuck other people."

>>79692482
How is that regression?
I'm not seeing your point.

>>79690029
its worse, anon. Much worse.

They're gonna blame mind control by someone else

>>79692482
>he needed to face his demons and rid himself of the clutch that was Iron Man.
Which is why he creates the Iron Army and an AI to protect earth in AOU, so he doesn't have to be Iron Man anymore.

It makes no sense why he destroys all of his previous suits to prove a point to his girlfriend though, only to show up in a spanking new one in the next movie.

>>Avengers
>"hurr durr Nick Fury is selling weapons to finance defending the Earth from Armageddon, fuck the government"

I don't think you have a great concept of what happen in these movies.

>>79688012

That's one thing that really bothered me. The end of Age of Ultron was the perfect way to transition into Civil War but instead everyone just goes "WELL THAT WAS A HUM DINGER LOL" and drives off into the sunset. Whedon is such a fucking hack.

>>79681549
Because it goes
>fuck da gubmint
>fuck da gubmint
>fuck da gubmint
>know what? gubmint cool

There's no part where he begins to question himself or his values. He just pulls a 180. That's not character development--or rather, it's not GOOD character development.

You also know they're not going to talk about any of this in the movie so there's no point in even bringing it up.

Is this movie even about registration?
All I read about it was "muh Bucky" and "muh parent's killer".

My bigger problem is
>Iron Man 1
>hurr durr, looks like a man that was my father's closest ally and whom I've trusted for decades has double crossed me.
>Guess I'll have to violently murder him.

>Iron Man 2; Avengers; Iron Man 3; AoU; Civil War
>Obadiah who?

>>79695998
He questions himself and his values all of the time. That's what all of the movies are about. Tony Stark realizing he's a fucking dick, and trying to make up for it.

Now he's trying to make up for creating Ultron and destroying a whole country.

>>79696574
SHIELD covered that up brah.

Obidiah Stane never existed.

Training accident.

It's classified.

Or whatever.

and technically Pepper killed him.

And beyond that, Stark isn't really one to share his feelings about his father figure betraying him to his coworkers on the Avengers roster.

>>79695202
>Iron Man 1 2 3
>The hero is a Jew
They did it again

>>79696574
Are you implying Stark should have gone on trial for Stane's death?

It was covered up, simple as that. No one but SHIELD, Tony and Pepper knows what happened.

Or are you implying Tony should be more affected by Stane's death?

What are you expecting him to do? Cry about it in the later movies? Have a heartfelt talk with the team?

>>79696764
Isn't RDJ only something like 3/8th Jewish? He's a true Jew at heart though.

>>79695998
>There's no part where he begins to question himself or his values.
>iron man 2
>iron man 3
>age of ultron

>You also know they're not going to talk about any of this in the movie so there's no point in even bringing it up.
Oh you're one of those, "if it's not in dialogue and explicitly stated then it didn't happen" types.

File: eec[1].png (232KB, 500x553px) Image search: [Google]

232KB, 500x553px

>>79681549

>>79690887
>implying the terrorists weren't still evil

You can't tell me the Ten Rings and Vanko were anything but murderous assholes.

>>79696637
>>79697862
>Iron Man 2
>"The suit is mine, let me drink in peace"
>Implying this is him questioning his decisions in IM1

>Iron Man 3
>"I seen some shit in New York. That was crazy. Oh by the way, fuck terrorists."
>Implying this is him questioning his actions in the Avengers or his previous fuck the government attitude
>Age of Ultron
>"Let's make a robot that can make the hard decisions for us"
You MIGHT be able to argue there's some questioning in AoU because his making Ultron in the first place implies he's beginning to doubt his decision making skills. His complete and utter lack of remorse and guilt at the end of the movie throw that in the trash though, so it's not even worth paying attention to.

>Oh you're one of those, "if it's not in dialogue and explicitly stated then it didn't happen" types.
No, I'm not. I'm just saying since they haven't SHOWN any character development the last 5 movies, they're kind of forced to TELL it. You know they're not going to TELL it though, so again, it's not even worth bringing up in discussion.

>>79693363
I'd actually prefer if they get rid of Tony. Spiderman coming into the MCU means a proper Iron Patriot is a possibility. SHIELD is definitely broken enough that Osborne could justify HAMMER.

>>79681549
You're forgetting the fact that Winter Soldier confirms that, yes, the goverment is even worse

>>79698226
It is also actively trying to kill you, instead of just accidentally.

>>79698083
>His complete and utter lack of remorse and guilt at the end of the movie throw that in the trash though, so it's not even worth paying attention to.
Not to mention the several times he gets uppity because people wanted to talk him down/criticize him for creating Ultron. Yeah, no, Tony, you fucked up. Monumentally. You are not allowed to act indignant or angry that they're legit pissed you created Genocidetron. He needed a good "shut the fuck up" thrown at him.

File: expand marco cancer.png (1MB, 900x1716px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 900x1716px

>>79681549

>>79698083
If I had a dollar for every time someone ignored Tony's arc in IM2 I'd be rich.

Iron Man 2
>suit is mine, fuck the government, no one else can make this tech
>i'm dying
>shit, someone else made this tech
>here, have a suit rhodey

Iron Man 3
>I saw some shit in new york
>I better make a bunch of suits to solve every specific problem
>you know maybe I don't need to freak out and micromanage everything, maybe problems just have to come and you shouldn't freak out over preparing because then you're the asshole that never leaves his house

Age of Ultron
>if I create AI, then we won't have to worry about being super heroes with human faults and anxieties
>oh shit, maybe I shouldn't just experiment with dangerous shit without oversight

I never said he questions his actions in previous movies. In each movie he does something, reflects on it, and changes in that one contained movie. All those changes add up to him being pro-government oversight in Civil War.

Tony's swing from 'fuck the government' to working for them makes perfect sense given the movies we've seen. You do a great job of remembering his positon at the beginning of every movie but seem to leave out his arcs in each individual movie in your greentext summaries.

File: gg .jpg (60KB, 348x348px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 348x348px

>>79681549
>tfw they finally fuck your shit up like you been askin

>>79699110
Probably high as a kite.

>>79699011
I love how both sides ITT ignore the fact that to fix what went wrong when he tampered with dangerous shit without supervsion, Tony TAMPERS WITH DANGEROUS SHOT WITHOUT SUPERVISION AGAIN
fuck that pissed me off, i don't care that it worked the second time because you know what? It almost didn't. Vision attacked them when he first woke up too

>>79681549
I disagree that's what Tony is going for in CW. I think his arrogance is back again. He thinks he can fix the problem of superheros just like he can fix everything else. The problem is, he's using the government to fix things.

>>79702397
This. Tony has diagnosed narcissism. He isn't joking when he says the team should be more grateful and consider him the 'true' leader, because he genuinely thinks he is the smartest, all of the time, no matter the subject.

When in reality, Tony is only smart with technology and weapons, and a fucking retard when it comes to a lot of other things. .