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Is this a bad movie on accident or by design?
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Is this a bad movie on accident or by design?

Does Clark not give a shit in Man of Steel, causing tons of collateral damage, committing murder, and saying he is not beholden to any government or their watchful eyes just so that BVS would be more plausible?
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>>79153228

Is this trying to be the new cape movie copypasta?

Can it compete with the greatness of Obama's Republic of Hitlerstan?
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>>79153228
>causing tons of collateral damage
Worst he caused was crashing the scout ship, barley jack shit in the big picture of all that occurred.
>committing murder
Self defense or defense of others is not and never will be murder.
>and saying he is not beholden to any government or their watchful eyes
He isn't they have no fucking right to make him their slave and he is staying out of politics as to avoid becoming a puppet for a agenda.
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>>79153228
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>>79153228
it's a bad movie for many reasons

>direction is simply focused on effects and filters
>no signs of acting, obviously above statement is the reason
>terrible writing, especially characterizations.
>pacing is pretty much terrible, weakens the movie more than anything else
>action scenes that lack urgency and drag too much
>in universe reasoning is retarded, and that collides with the realistic tone attempted
>too many hamfisted themes, especially messianic and philosophical
>IHOP


basically, it's not a terrible movie, it's a bad movie that could have been really good/great in the hands of a competent director, same thing applies to Age of Ultron for example.
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>>79153228
You personally not liking that they choose to make a flawed imperfect Superman that makes mistakes, does not and never will be a flaw with the film, it is not inherent to the character that he always be perfect and do everything perfectly.
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>>79153270
Man of Steel is a bigger meme than the supposed meme movies.

>>79153333
You forgot the most egregious thing; that it's half a movie. All that other stuff could've been excused were it at least a complete narrative.

But instead it spends an hour and change talking about how it'll change everything when the world realizes aliens walk among them, only to forget that and not even have them close school for the day so that there can be plenty of civilians in danger for when the big bad's doomsday machine goes off. All the actual "public response to aliens" was saved for BvS, when it was the driving factor for all the characterization in this movie. You can't have your movie's premise delivered in its sequel.
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>>79153333
>>no signs of acting, obviously above statement is the reason
And yet not a single bad performance in the film.
>>terrible writing, especially characterizations.
No not at all.
>>pacing is pretty much terrible, weakens the movie more than anything else
Pacing was phenomenal the slow humble tale of discovery leading into grand epic scale world changing events.
>>action scenes that lack urgency and drag too much
They were incredibly urgent and thunderingly powerful.
>>in universe reasoning is retarded, and that collides with the realistic tone attempted
What In universe reason are you referring to?
>>too many hamfisted themes, especially messianic and philosophical
Only to ass hurt atheist pieces of shit.
>>IHOP
Real settings add to the grounded nature of the world and setting.
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>>79153382
>But instead it spends an hour and change talking about how it'll change everything when the world realizes aliens walk among them
No only one scene really talked about that.
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>>79153405
how much are they paying you?

going by how hard you're sucking this movie's dick it must be a lot.
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>>79153420
Except it becomes the driving characterization for Clark. He can't operate openly or be proactive because he's driven by fear and paranoia; fear and paranoia that's at best, a self fulfilling prophecy as a result of him letting the villain frame the narrative.

>>79153405
Going "No, nope no": isn't a counter argument. I applaud you for not going straight to that "what good is hope in a hopeful world" line though.
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>>79153228
Hey, at least it's better than anything to come out of Marvel's phase 2 movies.
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Someone should buy Snyder a fucking tripod, during an heartfelt father son conversation the camera shouldnt be shaking like its war footage.
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>>79153228
What would make you think it's bad by design?

The script is god-awful, but it's a sincere attempt. The editing is fucked but they gave a rationale. The opening should've been cut from the movie but they spent so much on it that they couldn't do that.

Man of Steel strikes me as having the same fundamental problem as the Star Wars prequels: There wasn't someone at or near the top keeping everything unified and telling people when they had bad ideas.

>Hey, maybe we should make Pa Kent a disaffected paranoid guy who doesn't reach Clark the sanctity of life!
That's fucking stupid, Steve

>Hey, what if we have a cool CG shot of Zod's machine flipping hundreds of civilians into the air and then slamming brutally into the pavement!
That's just really morbid, Zach, no.

>Hey, wouldn't a scene where his dad is telling him to be a hope for the planet make a great trailer?
Yeah, but it doesn't fit the plot we've already mapped out, you can't just change a dead man's motivations halfway through the movie for a trailer VO

And so on
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>>79153228
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>>79153466
Its literally 90% everything I ever wanted in a Superman movie.
I don't give a fuck about company wars, I like Marvel also, I can't stand Green Lantern.

>>79153472
> He can't operate openly or be proactive because he's driven by fear and paranoia
So What? The point was to give us a new Superman that has different concerns/motivations, that is what we got.

> Going "No, nope no": isn't a counter argument
It is when your lying.

> I applaud you for not going straight to that "what good is hope in a hopeful world" line though.
Not relevant we are not discussing the tone or his contextual use in this world in contrast to less realistic settings like the Reeves films.
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>>79153359
This
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Zod's Space Dildos set the exact tone of this movie, pure non sense comedy.
Kinda worth just to hear Russel Crowe speaking completely in trailer bait speech.
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>>79153571
>The script is god-awful
Where the god damn fuck is it bad let alone awful?
>The editing is fucked but they gave a rationale
Not a single moment when its unclear what is taking place or happening on screen, so the editing is perfectly fine.
>That's fucking stupid, Steve
No its not on any level whatsoever it goes perfectly along with the realistic world building they put into the movie, and yes he did teach Clark the sanctity of life hence Clark's refusal to punch down, he just also taught Clark that the greater good trumps immediate lives in danger in certain circumstances.

>That's just really morbid, Zach, no.
No its incredibly epic and gives the film more gravity and consequence then every Superhero film before it.
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>>79153228
>Does Clark not give a shit in Man of Steel, causing tons of collateral damage, committing murder, and saying he is not beholden to any government or their watchful eyes just so that BVS would be more plausible?
Anon, none of that is bad. At all. Man of Steel is a shit movie, but that has nothing to do with it.

It was a darker movie than maybe it should've been, and it's clear the audience didn't see Man of Steel for darkness and the tone caused a bit of a backlash, but that doesn't make it a bad movie.

Being too long when there's at least 45 minutes that could've been left on the editing room floor

Shifting too wildly in tone too quickly in the climax (everyone's dead :'( Let's kiss over their bodies :D)

Being full of plot holes (Jor El had no reason to take the codex, in fact his motivation would dictate destroying it or leaving it to be destroyed; Jor-El's entire philosophy is proven wrong by him beating the shit out of Zod hand-to-hand; Pa Kent must've killed the metals specialist he showed the alien material to; Lois has no reason to be taken on the ship and put in a control room; Lois has no reason to be on the bomber; Zod could've terraformed Mars; etc.)

Having hackneyed overt christian references (side by side in frame with glass-painting jesus, falling to earth on the cross)

These are some of the reasons the movie sucked.
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>>79153644
>Where the god damn fuck is it bad let alone awful?
Where it makes no fucking sense under cursory inspection, has utilitarian dialogue when Superman is character-driven, and constantly undermines its own themes and motifs

>blah blah blah editing is fine
That's not all there is to editing, anon. Certain scenes drag on too long when they have no reason to, certain scenes serve absolutely no purpose in the movie, certain scenes are redundant. The movie is 150 minutes long when a good editor could easily get it down to 110.

>he taught...
No, at no point in the movie do we see Pa show Clark the sanctity of life and teach him the moral code Superman is famous for, judging by the events of the movie he's just born being superjesus. The actual scenes in the movie make it very clear that Pa wants Clark to protect his own safety over the safety of others, even the safety of Pa. This is a common criticism of the movie that you really can't argue with, even old women and babies got this impression.

>It's incredibly epic when you see human beings splatter on the pavement in a Superman movie
Oh, right, I forgot people like baiting in these threads.
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>>79153662
>and it's clear the audience didn't see Man of Steel for darkness
The audience that liked the film did.
>Shifting too wildly in tone too quickly in the climax (everyone's dead :'( Let's kiss over their bodies :D)
The switch the the drone scene was a too vast tone change I will say, but the kiss was not, it was a desperate moment between 2 people who just died to comfort each other as they both where still trembling.

>Pa Kent must've killed the metals specialist he showed the alien material to
Or payed him off, or went to him under a false identity, or knew him personally and the guy did him a favor in not going public.
>Lois has no reason to be taken on the ship and put in a control room
Hostage, Mental examination and she was not put in a control room, she was put in what appeared to be basically a storage closet.
>Lois has no reason to be on the bomber
Show how to activate Clark's ship, and she has been in war scenarios before in her time as a reporter as they stated earlier in the film.
>Zod could've terraformed Mars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giM4Nn5Xc2M
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Dunno what was more accidentally comedic, superman's NYEH after breaking Zod's or the sudden care for the people's safety after crushing half the city.
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>>79153775
>or....
Please, it was a throwaway line they didn't think about and didn't realize introduced a gaping hole.
>hostage
He had no use for a hostage. Also hostages are traditionally watched and guarded because they're of extreme tactical importance, not thrown into a storage shed/control room.
>It was a closet
A closet that for some reason had a panel in it with admin access to every control on the ship. Maybe stick her in the room without root access.
>Show how to activate Clark's ship
Words work
>she has been in war time she's a reporter
No camera, no notes, she's there because they need her to fall so Superman can catch her.
>shitty youtube video with random clips and a million baseless assertions
Funny shit, anon.
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>>79153775
>that video
>The subtitles are saying "The World Engine only changes gravity and atmosphere"
>The scientist is saying "They're increasing the Earth's mass"
Fucking hilarious
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>>79153725
>has utilitarian dialogue when Superman is character-driven
So?
>and constantly undermines its own themes and motifs
That was the point, to contrast the realistic flawed person Clark is compared to his potential.
>Certain scenes drag on too long when they have no reason to
Only the drone scene comes to mind were It could have ended when Clark flew off.
>certain scenes serve absolutely no purpose in the movie
Such as?
>certain scenes are redundant
Jor-El giving Clark the history we have already scene about Krypton does fall under needless exposition I will give you however, it is such a fun humble touching scene of discovery and fulfillment, that easily trumps wasted time in my book.
>No, at no point in the movie do we see Pa show Clark the sanctity of life and teach him the moral code Superman is famous for
It doesn't have to be shown for it to be obvious it happened.
> The actual scenes in the movie make it very clear that Pa wants Clark to protect his own safety over the safety of others,
No he made it clear, it was not JUST about Clark's safety, his exact words were, "THERE IS MORE AT STAKE THEN OUR LIVES OR THE LIVES OF THOSE AROUND US!"
>It's incredibly epic when you see human beings splatter on the pavement in a Superman movie
> Oh, right, I forgot people like baiting in these threads.
We didn't see the splatter it was off in the distance, and yes I absolutely do want to see epic sci-fi in a Superman film.
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>>79153228
>committing murder

When did he commit murder?
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>>79153775
I like how you totally ignored the hole in the basic premise of the plot, that Jor-El's motivations would've led him to destroy the codex, not mix it with the most precious thing in the universe to him.
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>>79153827
>or the sudden care for the people's safety after crushing half the city.
He did not crush as single thing dumb fuck.
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>>79153853
>has utilitarian dialogue when Superman is character-driven
>So?
Stopped reading here
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>>79153575
This.
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>>79153853
>It doesn't have to be shown for it to be obvious it happened.
Motherfucker this is a movie. A motion picture. Not a motion implication.
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>>79153228
by design. they wanted a darker superman despite the character's core concept being a symbol of hope and altruism
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>>79153577
>So What? The point was to give us a new Superman that has different concerns/motivations, that is what we got.
Moving the goalposts. If it's the core of his characterization then it doesn't matter if it's only one conversation or not. It's still the crux of the movie. You can't say it's his motivation and then expect us not to notice that they failed to deliver on it effectively.

>It is when your lying.
You seem to think people disagreeing with you for lying. Are you five?
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>>79153904
Look, I'll agree that a dark Superman movie is a bad idea and absolutely not what people who would go to see a Superman movie are looking for or expecting (which they clearly knew since the trailers were shots full of hope and fun that are literally shoehorned into the movie for the purpose of making a trailer), but that doesn't make it a bad movie. You can have a good movie come out of a bad or misguided idea.

The movie has many-fold failures, most of them tracing back to the script, but not all.

Man is Goyer a terrible fucking writer
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>>79153886
Forget it man he's just going to keep going "No you're lying it was epic mythic serious scifi"
And maybe he's right. Maybe he's watching some foreign language dub where the dialogue isn't trite bullshit and exposition. It'd explain why he has no idea what these words mean in english.
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>>79153904
Nah, i think it was accidental, as in, yeah, the movie was supposed to be darker and shit, but i doubt the movie's script specifically said "Clark comes back to Metropolis but doesn't even bat an eye about the thousands of victims but makes out with Lois instead"

I just think they gave priority to the action without caring about the consequences on the world (inb4 "the sequel deals with that!") or the characters. That's basically Snyder in a nutshell

>What if we have Superman punching and screaming and Zod through trains, builings and gas stations like it's nothing until they're in the middle of Smallville? Pretty cool, right?

It's like when he made Nite Owl and Silk Spectre brutally break the bones of a bunch of thugs as if he thought he was filming Sin City, the man doesn't give a fuck
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>>79153228
>"on accident"

Kill yourself
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>>79153382
What the fuck is a meme movie?
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>>79154385
something only popular due to marketing and/or being quotable, despite being poor entertainment. the kind of thing a disproportionate number of people only saw because everyone else was talking about it and they wanted to be 'get' the in-jokes being spouted by their friends.
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>>79153228
And steeling clothes.
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>>79153333
>>direction is simply focused on effects and filters
>>no signs of acting, obviously above statement is the reason
>>terrible writing, especially characterizations.
>>pacing is pretty much terrible, weakens the movie more than anything else
>>action scenes that lack urgency and drag too much
>>in universe reasoning is retarded, and that collides with the realistic tone attempted
>>too many hamfisted themes, especially messianic and philosophical
>>IHOP


And Warner give the DC keys to Zack Snyder...
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>>79153834
>He had no use for a hostage.
In case Clark was not nearly as weakened as he ended up being.
>Also hostages are traditionally watched and guarded because they're of extreme tactical importance, not thrown into a storage shed/control room.
Once Clark was fully subdued and both Zod & Faora returned to earth for Clark's ship little reason to keep her out and about.
>A closet that for some reason had a panel in it with admin access to every control on the ship. Maybe stick her in the room without root access.
No reason to think she would be able to access or use any of their tech. And it was unlikely to be a primary workstation, Jor AI mearly was able to fully upload into the general computer from that port.
>Words work
>No camera, no notes, she's there because they need her to fall so Superman can catch her.
And to give added tension to the film, which is a perfectly valid reason and there is no reason to think she wouldn't be allowed on the plane under the circumstances.

>>79153662
>>79153865
>Jor El had no reason to take the codex, in fact his motivation would dictate destroying it or leaving it to be destroyed
He wishes to be rid of the religious/political bias enforcing the ant colony mindset, while he still wishes for his race to survive, all of their bloodlines not just his own.

>>79153904
They did not make a darker Superman, they made a darker world around him, and he is realistically effected by that, but that does not change his potential for good.

>>79153931
>You can't say it's his motivation
Its not his motivation, his motivation is to find his origins and embrace his potential.
Him wavering dew to fear of the worlds reaction is a burden to overcome not his motivation.
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>>79153935
>and absolutely not what people who would go to see a Superman movie are looking for or expecting
Except I am a good size Superman fan (I liked his TAS almost more than Batman tas), and it's EXACTLY what I was looking for tone wise, you can like or love Superman and not want another bright silly campy film, just like you can like both Adam West AND the 89 films or the Nolan films.
>>79153998
>and exposition
The only exposition of note I recall was Jor-El reiterating the history of Krypton to Clark which was a great scene which made up for it.

>"Clark comes back to Metropolis but doesn't even bat an eye about the thousands of victims but makes out with Lois instead"
Because he never had a moment to take note of it, him and Lois JUST escaped being torn apart atom by atom in a black hole when the landed and kissed.
>What if we have Superman punching and screaming and Zod through trains, builings and gas stations like it's nothing until they're in the middle of Smallville? Pretty cool, right?
No just a grain silo and the 711, the Train was later when he Punched Non OUT OF TOWN!
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I liked it.
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>>79153228
clark doesn't know what the fuck he's doing, and ma/pa kent were relatively shit people. They came off as liberals as well.
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>>79156790
No Liberals wouldn't give a shit about the big picture and the most number of lives, Liberals would be like Mark Waid and say absurd shit like "if even one person has to die so millions can live" then this world isn't worth saving!!!
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I feel like we've had this thread before.
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>>79156790
>>79156854

God you both are retarded.
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>>79156860

It's just deja vu, anon. There's a glitch in The Matrix, the Agents are coming.
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>>79156854

Exactly. the kents taught clark to hide, to never use his powers because he was so much better than others and they wouldn't understand, even said he could grow up to be terrible, never teaching him about how liberty and freedom are so important they're worth fighting for, how independence is important, that he should always do what he thinks is right, how he should help when the help is wanted and let people have their freedom to try and fail, that he should never do the right thing for praise, How important a democratic republic is, etc etc.

Then he encounters zod, zod basically says "kal your father is a cunt, this planet is the new krypton, get with the program or die" and a completely inexperienced superman is forced to fight a deathmatch with a bunch of militaristic aliens in a spectacle that catapults him into godhood in the public eye and draws him far more ire than if he just showed up one day in spandex and said "Hi, I'm here to help. Do you need any help?"
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>>79156909
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>>79153228
MCUcks in full force today, can't handle the hype.
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>>79153228
It's still better than pretty much any MCU movie to date, and cavill looks great as supes.
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>>79153228
It's a good movie...For some other superhero.
With minor tweeks to avoid Copyright infringement it would have been a a great Hyperion movie with a few more tweeks it would have been a great Hancock sequel. It's main problems are really due to a lack of understanding of the characters they were using.
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>>79153228
I don't know...
Bum Clark seems to save a lot of people or do good deeds as Lois investigates him but right after he gets the costume he goes full retard and destroys the whole place

The excuse that this is his first time dealig with anything close to his power sort of applies but still, he threw logic and regard for human lives out the window
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>>79153228
The opening's good, because it focus on Jor-el guiding the viewer through Krypton and we get to see the world. I think if the movie was based around Clark/superman discovering learning to live in Metropolis, it would be much more distressing, when zod invades and destroys Metropolis, since we've grown to care about it. In the movie though, he's all over the place and the only character that gets development in Lois and Clark's parents, and thus we don't care about anything else except their survival and that makes a lot of the action in the movie null.
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>somebody hired Snyder to direct

Thus, it's a bad movie by design.
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>superfags so starved for movies they defend the shittiest superman movie ever made
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>>79160035
That would be superman returns, hon.
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>>79156459
>He wishes to be rid of the religious/political bias enforcing the ant colony mindset
I thought you were just an idiot up until here, but now I can tell you're just fucking with me.
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>>79157234
>to never use his powers because he was so much better than others and they wouldn't understand
No, that was never even remotely implied whatsofuckingever.
>never teaching him about how liberty and freedom are so important they're worth fighting for
The "I grew up in Kanas General, I'm about as American as it gets" implies they did.
>how he should help when the help is wanted
They never said he should not do so, just not YET when the world and him are both not ready and many more could die as a result of this early reveal.
>that he should never do the right thing for praise
Never did so a single time in the film.

>Then he encounters zod, zod basically says "kal your father is a cunt, this planet is the new krypton, get with the program or die" and a completely inexperienced superman is forced to fight a deathmatch with a bunch of militaristic aliens in a spectacle that catapults him into godhood in the public eye and draws him far more ire than if he just showed up one day in spandex and said "Hi, I'm here to help. >Do you need any help?"
Whats the problem with that? We already got our Superman that haD a nice bright happy start to his career in the world, this is a NEW ALTERNATE UNIVERSE.
Once again your irrationally bitching because "not muh"
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>>79153521
That's blatantly untrue.

MoS was a disaster from start to finish.
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>>79159547
>It's main problems are really due to a lack of understanding of the characters they were using.
No they perfectly understood him, not wanting him to be a blindly naive idiot that does everything perfectly and always knows what is right in every scenario is not betraying the character its making him fucking believable as a character and not one of the biggest incarnations of a mary sue in history.

>>79159612
>but right after he gets the costume he goes full retard and destroys the whole place
He did not destroy almost fucking anything.
> Grain Silo & 711, if you actually payed attention to the fucking film, its clear he was not looking up to see where he was going, and when you mom was just choked and thrown around your focus sure as fuck should be on the threaten-er.
> empty Train & Train Yard, which he Punched Non into, BECAUSE IT GOT HIM OUT OF THE MIDDLE OF FUCKING MAIN STREET, is that not preferable???
> Crashed the scout ship which badly sideswiped 4 buildings.
> Collided with Zod alongside one building.
> Pushed Zod thru some steel bars at the construction site.
> Dragged Zod's face thru some windows as a spontaneous reaction to Zod punching him into the building opposite.
That's it, THAT'S FUCKING IT!!!, That is not jack shit of the total damage that occurred in the film.
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>>79160035
Any one of the individual Trailers for MOS was better in every single way to 3 & 4, its not humanly possible the entire film was worse.

Mos is my 2nd favorite movie and I was only a moderate Superman fan up to that point.
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>>79161583
>not wanting him to be a blindly naive idiot that does everything perfectly and always knows what is right in every scenario is not betraying the character its making him fucking believable as a character and not one of the biggest incarnations of a mary sue in history.
>Maybe if I ram enough buzzwords together it'll form a cogent argument!
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>>79160239
> if you don't only like campy silly crap your a idiot!

I swear to god I am dead fucking serious, him and Lara specifically stated they felt Krypton lost the element of choice in a individual's life, hence they are against the pre determined life for everyone.
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>>79161723
Fine, I leave out the Buzzwords.
If Superman is written as a inherent plot device that can always solve every problem then he is a bad fucking character, they gave him more flaws and imperfections in MOS elevating him beyond being a perfect plot device.
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>>79161728
Except the whole choice narrative is shot in the foot by Clark being so rudderless and passive. None of the major events in the movie are a direct result of his free choice, he's always backed into a corner and forced. But you're so dead set on thinking this movie is the bee's knees that you'll ignore that and think all anyone cares about is the fact that he didn't wink at the camera or some shit.
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>>79161804
>If Superman is written as a inherent plot device
I don't think you know what "inherent" OR "plot device" mean.
Hell, they literally have a Macguffin sewn into Clark's DNA in the first act. But that's not a plot device because "muh serious scifi epic"

>that can always solve every problem
Again, you can't address the actual argument so you regress to strawmanning. I'm going to explain this in as plain a language as I can fucko.

I DON'T WANT SUPERMAN TO SOLVE EVERY PROBLEM.
I WANT SUPERMAN TO FAIL.
MAN OF STEEL SUPERMAN FAILS BY NOT TRYING IN THE FIRST PLACE.
THIS CARRIES LESS DRAMATIC WEIGHT.

>they gave him more flaws and imperfections
No, they really, really didn't. He's passive to the point of being a non character.
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>>79161804
Making him actively ignore the shit that went down in Metropolis wasn't giving him "more flaws" as much as it was "skipping the boring part so i can have my DBZ fight"
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>>79161930
I totally concede he does not drive the story thru his actions (besides finding the scout ship and discovering his origins and alerting Zod to his presence) and that he is mostly reactionary... I do not understand why that is a bad thing or a flaw with his characterization or the film.

I'm not dead set on anything, I know the film has flaws, see pic related for my full opinion on the film.
>>
>>79153846
Bait
>>
>>79162030
>I do not understand why that is a bad thing or a flaw with his characterization or the film.
I literally explained why it was bad in the first sentence. How are you not getting this.
If you build a narrative on "choice" you cannot remove choice from the protagonist.

It's like if the movie was called the Adventures of Red Man and the color Red was never used. Do you understand that?
>>
>>79162004
When people claim it is a misunderstanding of the core of the character or a betrayal of the character for him to accidentally lead Zod here or accidentally cause damage himself then yes they are absolutely saying he should be perfect and not make mistakes and that that is a inherent aspect of the character that makes or breaks a portrayal.

> MAN OF STEEL SUPERMAN FAILS BY NOT TRYING IN THE FIRST PLACE.
What did he not try that you wish he did?

>>79162029
He never had any chance to take it in, it was...
> Almost dying in a black hole with Lois
leading immediately to...
> Him and Lois tremblingly comforting each other right when they landed.
Which is interrupted by...
> Zod trudging out of the wreckage of the crashed Scout Ship.

I TOTALLY Agree they should have addressed it after he defeated Zod and maybe had a montage of him rescuing people from the ruins that would lead into the drone scene instead of jumping right to it, but I think him not taking note of it right prior to the fight was understandable.
>>
>movie about Superman

> does nothing super
>>
>>79153312
I bet you got this from Tumblr.
>>
>>79153571
The fact that people put this on the same level as the Star Wars prequels worries me. MoS was a million times better than those crappy movies.
>>
>>79162201
>When people claim it is a misunderstanding of the core of the character or a betrayal of the character for him to accidentally lead Zod here or accidentally cause damage himself then yes they are absolutely saying he should be perfect and not make mistakes and that that is a inherent aspect of the character that makes or breaks a portrayal.
Nobody's claiming any of that shit. You're replacing actual arguments with your headcanon in order to defend a poorly structured narrative because you clearly don't know what makes a good one. I have ZERO problem with him killing Zod, or the collateral damage, or even him leading Zod to earth (it's STUPID but would've been excusable in a better written movie since most heroes end up creating their villians in these things)

>What did he not try that you wish he did?
I wish Clark tried to save his dad. (Still kill his dad though.)
I wish Clark tried to frame the narrative between human/superhuman relations rather than letting Zod do it. But you're going to ignore this sentence because you have no idea what any of it means and because the flimsy "realistic" setting requires people to act in such a stupid and self defeating way.
>>
>>79162377
>I wish Clark tried to save his dad.
I would be down for this, do have him hesitate when Pa waves him down, and then lunge forward to do so anyway and right when he does, Pa is swept away.
> I wish Clark tried to frame the narrative between human/superhuman relations rather than letting Zod do it.
I do understand why you want this, that's fine, but I like the unsure paranoia about Clark the public now has as a result of Zod's actions so its working for me.
>>
>>79162509
>so its working for me.
Too bad it doesn't work with all the shitty hope diatribes. The movie tries to have it both ways. If it just wanted to have it one way, that'd be great. I'd be down for it. I like X-men and Spider-man for exactly that.

But the trailers, if not the movie itself, did all that Marlon Brando homage "you'll lead them into the light and be super jesus" shit and it doesn't mesh with the movie we're actually given. And BECAUSE they spend so much time trying to sell the idea that he'll be the Light Bringer to the World, they skimp on the actual fear and paranoia thing. An alien ship parks itself over earth and starts giving ultimatums and we never see riots in the street. We never see people firing wildly into the air. We never see martial law declared. We never see looters. We never see ANY actual reaction that justifies the paranoia narrative. Even the military reaction is ridiculously downbeat all things considered. The National Guard made a bigger fuss when the Pope came to NYC than they did when Zod came to Metropolis.

The movie tries to do two diametrically opposed narratives and doesn't spend enough time on either for it to be effective or well constructed.

And no, this "people reacting to aliens" thing is not something that can be done in the sequel. It's too late now to get the initial first wave reaction. Just the post game commentary.
>>
>>79162201
Nothing of what you said matters because it was merely written that way, it's not a damn documentary following a real life story. The kiss could've been shorter or delayed, Zod could've pretended to be dead a couple of more seconds. Hell, they could've avoided to force Superman out of the city he's supposed to defend in the first place

What i'm arguing is that the movie (as in the director, writer, whatever) doesn't give a fuck about that superhero shit and instead focused on the destruction porn and "muh tragedy" because that's what they think makes a good story

What makes it worse is that at the same time they had to ignore the tragedy they cared so much about because, despite trying to depict their work as groundbreaking, they still had to force an Hollywood-friendly happy ending. The Daily Planet is starting over, Clark is all smiles, "he's so sexy", destruction of satellites because you never have enough of that, i guess

That's where many get mad at the movie, it wanted to have the cake and to eat it too, they showed death and suffering but didn't bother/forgot to show the implications and consequences. I mean, there's a reason why most MoS-fags end up using the "they'll show that in the sequel!" argument, as the other anon said the story as it is feels unfinished
>>
>>79161417
MoS has it's flaws, but it's nowhere near that bad.
Iron Man 3 was a fun movie, not Iron Man 2.
Superman Returns wasn't a good movie by any standard, not because it was awful, but because it was boring.
>>
Honestly, my only problem with MoS is how they misused Pa Kent and a miscast Lois Lane (and I usually enjoy Amy Adams). Also, Lois magically appearing everywhere Supes was is plain ridiculous. Unless they later reveal that she's actually part of the Flash family, it makes no sense.
>>
>>79153575
kek
>>
>>79153228
It's a good movie with too much Nolan in it.
>>
I can't believe no one posted this yet.
>>
>>79161417

MoS is the blatant odd one out in that last tier.

Nice try.
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