>>79151182 It's very easy for me to believe it. I was raised a Southern Baptist and this is exactly the type of stuff my parents and their church believe. The only difference is how much more preachy the tracts are (since that's the point of tracts).
I asked my mom for D&D once and she said no because it apparently involves devil worship. She's normally a fairly smart person, but all that goes out the window for anything intersecting with her faith. Religion is crazy powerful when it's all you know and questioning it is sinful.
>>79151735 Yeah. I like those panels because even though the judge is supposed to be the bad guy of the story, that scene just makes him look kinda cool. He's unable to move or speak, yet he still manages to tell off the guy who comes lecture him.
>>79151885 How can people say they live their live by such an outdated book where its shown as incredibly moral to hand your virgin daughters over to rape gangs? Or murder people and steal their women to make into your own slave wives?
>>79151885 For me, it's just that the way that guy looks sort of deranged the way he just launches into this speil of scripture, not to mention the content of passage, so his boss fires him for coming across like a lunatic
Sodom and Gomorrah were two cities. God didn't like them because they were wicked or something so he decided to destroy them. Abraham was like "what if there are innocent people there?" and so God sent two angels to find non-wicked people and warn them about the destruction of the city.
So these two angels go into town disguised as humans and this dude named Lot invites them into his house and doesn't even rape them. Then this mob forms outside and is like "Lot, give us those hot strangers so we can fuck them". But Lot's a better host than that so he says no. Instead he offers the angry mob his two virgin daughters to fuck instead. Totally normal.
Then the angels blinded the mob with their angel magic before the rape could happen. And they were like "Lot, you're such a great guy that we're giving you advanced notice about your city blowing up. You gotta get out of here. P.S. don't look behind you when you're leaving the city."
So Lot takes his wife and daughters to leave. But his wife turns to look back at the city so God turns her into a pillar of salt. He was into weird punishments back then.
So now Lot's daughters are living out in the middle of nowhere because their city blew up. But they wanted to reproduce so their family line wouldn't die out. So they got Lot drunk and raped him to get a kid.
I typed all of this out and then realized that Brad Neely already explained this all much better than I could. Everyone should watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bar3GOzDNzg
>>79152808 It does honestly. My favorite old testament story is the one where a girl gets raped so her brothers go to the city of the man who raped her and say it was no big deal. They leave wine and all the men in the city get really druck, and later that night the brothers come back and cut off all their foreskins
>>79151885 Taking care of your guests is serious business, anon. "You can have my daughters, but please don't harm the guests" is what he's trying to say. And then the guests turned out to be angels. Close call there, huh?
>>79153373 Shit, inconsistent writing. Plus Old Testament God was a little light on the omnipotence and omniscience field. He didn't instantly know that Eve ate the apple, for example, and needed to put people to tests of faith all the time in order to reassure himself he was doing a good job.
>>79151955 Because most people just accept without knowing what anything is about.
Less than 8% of all the uses of "know" in the bible are sexual and the same word is used for just you know knowing someone.
And when you look at it from the Jewish tradition the crime here isn't homosexuality (it sn't speaking as a catholic theological student) their crime was being inhospitable. A lot of people misinterpret the passage as being about the gays, seriously fuck the Protestants. Basically second to murder not being good to your guests was worst crime.
>>79153561 >>79153535 The Old Testament is stupid because Primitive Hebrew goatherder culture is not something you should look to for morality.
Cutting up a boy's dick as a baby for instance, in America even non-jewish people have been hooked into doing it for no reason when its just a pointless cosmetic surgery with all the inherent risks of complications or afteraffects that entails.
>>79153787 >>79153825 No God did not put him through anything. That was Satan who did that bad stuff to Job, God merely allowed it. In the end Job was blessed with far more than what he had in the beginning. All this "bet" was not just for Job. This was an allegation Satan was making against the whole human race
>>79153837 Except all the dead family stayed dead, none of the horrors that were done to Job were undone. God just gave Job some candy after he let his subordinate have his fun with his asshole, which is a common abuse tactic where you give a little after putting them through harm so they can tell themselves you still care for them and are actually a good person.
You are a horrible person for supporting textbook examples of such behavior and even holding it up as something good.
>>79153762 holy shit so it is alright that lisa was getting raped and beaten because from now on she won't anymore? Her parents face no repercussion for that shit and repenting means making a prayer, not going to jail? Holy shit that's some fucked up morals right there.
>>79153880 >>79153891 Job knew that his kids will be resurrected. God did nothing wrong what are you talking about? You guys seem to forget that it was humans who brought about this situation when Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge
>>79154022 People always seems to forget that Satan brought this allegations about humanity to God in front of the other Angels. So Job provided proof that humans can serve faithfully during the good and the bad to the other Angels not just to God and Satan
>>79153939 The whole is a metaphor. I don't really get why people have a hard time understanding that no obviously no one was there to see God and the devil play cards. Fuck you think even the Jews believed it I mean they of all people know that Exodus was written before Genesis.
Hell even with the Gospels people forget the they were written after the fact by 3rd hand accounts. It's like the last supper oh my god chances are jesus said that speech ever meal and ot that one time, but let's just put at the end for effect. But anyway time for me to play assfaggots.
>>79153943 >Well yeah would you rather be babied forever
Isn't god supposed to be like our dad? Why doesn't he protect and baby us then?
>and not have free will to dissent or do ill will onto others if you wanted.
Well I didn't have free will to choose whether or not to eat the fruit in the garden and be auto-damned, I didn't choose to be born either.
Speaking of the garden and dad's, isn't God irresponsible for letting the devil in in the first place? Imagine you were a dad and your one rule for your kids was they couldn't drink or do drugs; would you then allow some older, smooth talking thug into the house under your watch that you know will encourage them to do that kind of shit to test them?
>>79154022 Adam and Eve were not at fault, they were beneath children in their naivety and inexperience, they lacked the knowledge of gods that their maker hoarded from them jealously, and were left alone with a scaly child molester while god sat by and did nothing.
>>79154022 >Job knew that his kids will be resurrected. God did nothing wrong what are you talking about?
Except protect his creation. If he sees the future and the devil knows that he could've just told him what would happen or give him a vision of the future, the Bible would need only to relate the vision.
>You guys seem to forget that it was humans who brought about this situation when Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge
So why do I and the rest of humanity have to pay for what Adam and Eve did? Would God charge the Ice-Man's kids with the deaths of the people he killed?
>>79154132 You are wrong Adam knew that a talking snake was suspicious and he knew that eating the fruit was forbidden yet he did it anyway. Evidently he cared about his wife more than he cared about God. Maybe he didn't think God would make him a new one >>79154150 Yeah yeah yeah whatever you say yuropoor
>>79154232 Chill out I am just messing with you and to be honest I was raised extremely religiously. Now that I am older I doubt the Bible and whether the Christian god exists yet I still hate when people talk crap about it despite knowing nothing
>>79154097 Well one the I didn't chose to be born is literally the argument of teenagers and ignores the fact that even you'd have to be born to even have free will. 2 not even the Jew thought Genesis was real although I guess blame the mileu for the lack of irony detection.
>>79154198 Adam was probably getting pretty bored, given that he was thrown on to the Earth, told to do whatever he wanted, except eat the fruit from the one tree. He was probably holding off because, you know, don't fuck with God, but once Eve ate the fruit and didn't melt or blow up or turn black or whatever, he probably thought "well, fuck it, Eve was fine. Maybe I'm supposed to eat the fruit."
Kind of fucks up the cooperative nature of the whole affair when you think about it. God could have banished Eve and made Adam a new wife, and Adam would have a good reason as to why NOT to eat the fucking fruit, since he saw his last wife get banished for it, but God was enough of a dick to wait until they had both eaten the fruit before saying "ya dun fucked up boyeee".
>>79154752 >ignores the fact that even you'd have to be born to even have free will You don't need free will to be unable to consent. animal cruelty laws are in place because we agreed that just because animals don't have free will doesn't mean we should treat them like objects
>>79154941 >Noah gets drunk off his ass >Ham accidentally sees him naked >God does nothing to Ham and punishes Ham's son Canaan (and only Canaan, the rest of Ham's children are exempt) with the curse of forever being servants of Shem and his descendants >Americans later claim that Black people are descendants of Canaan and therefore its OK to enslave them because Ham once accidentally saw his father naked
In the story, the girl - Dina - got seduced/ raped by these guys, but then he tells her family (Jacob and his sons) he'd actually like to marry her. They agree, but they demand they get circumcised so God won't be mad they allowed her to get married to an uncircumcised man.
Amazingly, they concede. He really must have liked her. So they all get circumcised.
And then - the story goes on to say - "On the third day, when they were in tremendous pain, [her brothers] entered the city and killed all the men".
This is one of the biggest dick moves in the entire Bible.
I've run across maybe one religious person that was weird about DnD. I mentioned I went to a Renaissance fair in costume and the guy got on my case. I explained the appeal ina few sentences and he backed off.
He's not a bad guy. He was a Beatnik back in the day before Jesus got ahold of him
I was also raised Southern Baptist. The son of a southern Baptist Preacher actually. In new Jersey
One of the groups I play DnD with Is comprised of Homes schooled conservatives. And their families are cool with it because homeschoolers love Tolkien apparently.
>>79156003 Seeing as god didn't do anything about his flipper babies he clearly endorsed the actions of his date-rapist incest-loving daughters. Not to mention all of Adam and Eve's children interbreeding.
I don't know what to say apart from their culture was vile evil toxic and apparently God chose a form of small scale genocide.
These passages have never sat all that well with me. Especially as someone that professes faith and takes the call of Non violence from the New testament pretty seriously.
But I suppose theres the element of faith there. Where I acknowledged that thats the call God made. And if he is truly good, all knowing and all powerful then I have to assume he made the right call.
God has never displayed r shown pleasure in the destruction of anyone. There is no such passage. But I think one of the problems people have (even in the church) us they treat sin like its an inconvenience something that makes life kind of annoying and awful sometimes.
But if the scriptures are to be believed sin poisoned creation. I corrupted a creation that was once called "good". I separates us from our creator and perverts the good into something unrecognizable.
I think --religiosity aside- we can agree the most dangerous and awful things out there for us and our minds are things that were good or appealing and remade into something else. Its how people manipulate one another.
Its how we went from Rocket science to the fucking atom bomb.
Thats what sin is. Its an unmaking, a twisting and corrupting force that had infected all of creation.
Its not "well I stole from the guy" that was kind of shitty of me. I should probably not do that again"
Also his daughters were idiots. They thought the fire that rained down on Sodom and Gomorrah had consumed the entire world as they hid in the mountains.
So they had to restart the human race. So they got their dad drunk
>>79153907 It's no secret that the Jack Chick tracts are deeply sexist. They look and feel like something that was written in the 50's.
Just look at the D&D one, for example. The evil D&D-playing witches are all girls, and then it's the handsome jockish boy who has to be the voice of reason.
In "Lisa", Jack Chick seems to understand that rape is an irreversible act that often perpetuates itself through intergenerational violence, but he handles the subject with the tact of a four year old. And, trust me, when a girl has just been raped the last thing she wants to hear is "lol give urself to Jesus"
>>79156193 How can people claim the Christian God is allpowerful and allknowing but still accept the old testament? He's clearly shown there to be fallible and capable of being corrected by his underlings and at the same time be capable of missing stuff.
Why don't they just reorganize what is canon once again?
>>79151955 >How can people say they live their live by such an outdated book
As with most things in life, people don't follow everything to the letter. They basically do what they agree with, ignore the stuff they don't particularly like, and just try to do what they think is good enough.
>>79151250 The one thing I always remember about the bible is that one story. The one where this guy has a very good life and is thankful for it everyday and prays and is good, then Satan says to God "I bet you he wouldn't be so thankful if he had nothing to be thankful for." and then God turns to him and says "OH YEEEEEEEEAH? LOL!" and then kills his children, his wife, his crops and ruins everything this guy works for.
Then the guy still comes back to god like a battered housewife and gives thanks. That's it, he gets nothing back, it was all just to prove a point to satan.
This is the god they believe in, some have such absolute faith to a madman that it's no doubt that fanaticism carries over in real life. I wish Constantine did a better job on the bible revisions back then.
>>79156193 >Abraham actually argued with Yaweh, although he did keep politely asking for Yaweh not to get mad as he continued to question his decisions.
You know, the Old Testament reads a lot differently if you don't read it as taken that the writers assumed God to be a purely benevolent force and instead take it as a guidebook as how not to piss off the guy.
>>79156102 >And if he is truly good, all knowing and all powerful then I have to assume he made the right call.
That's where the trouble comes in. You have to presuppose he did the right thing and look for evidence to support that and ignore evidence to the contrary. In everything else we use evidence first to draw conclusions, except in religion where we do the opposite.
>But if the scriptures are to be believed sin poisoned creation.
Sin can't exist without him having created it. Imagine you're playing a video game, you can't do anything in the game, good or bad that the developer didn't write into the code.
Well God wrote rape, murder, lust, etc into the world and then made it worse by making us capable of wanting to do those things. They didn't need to exist.
>>79156253 >Why don't they just reorganize what is canon once again? They couldn't do that now. Back then you could and have more effect because we had iron tyrants in control of shit conquering all and replacing what was with what was made new.
Now you'd do that you'd just have another sect and one that would probably be ostracized by the rest of the population.
>>79156131 >He's a decent guy but he's still kind of an asshole
I think handing over your daughters to a rape mob or getting your parent drunk to have sex with them makes you a little more than an asshole.
The only decent person in the whole family was Lot's wife, and she died because she succumbed to the perfectly reasonable human tendency to sneak a glance at the horrible catastrophe she happened to be running from.
>>79156414 There's nothing reasonable about flooding the Earth.
Its such a retardedly impossible feat to begin with it would have made much more sense if he had been able to just smite all the sinners who offended him individually, which would have avoided the stupid amount of collateral damage.
Actually, God turns to him and says "Go ahead, prove it." and then Satan kills his children, wife, crops, etc.
>That's it, he gets nothing back
Then he gets everything back twofold (Job 42: 10-17), and a new set of children (because he will be reunited with his first children in an earthly/heavenly resurrection, depending on which denomination you ask).
God knew Job would be faithful, which is why he allowed it to happen. It wasn't about proving it to himself, it was about proving it to Satan and having a record left behind to prove it to all mankind.
>>79156571 >Except Satan only has the power god gave him, and god explicitly allowed him to fuck over Job to show he was right which shouldn't even be required in the first place if god is all knowing.
Dude, you're reaching.
You don't really need to use the roundabout "well he's personally responsible because he created it and then it acted independently." route to show Yaweh being a dick,
There's plenty of examples of Yaweh being a dick directly.
Or at least being more or less no different from any other ancient Near Eastern regional/ethnic deity.
Nothing is impossible with God. Hallelujah. Amen. Sorry sorry.. Breaking your balls a little. >been able to just smite all the sinners who offended him individually
Thats a good point.
Although I think the flood was more about symbolism in that case. A Flood is whole. Consuming. Remakes. Water purifies.
God was pretty upset with the state of affairs.
I suppose the answer Im really giving you is. I don't know. I'm not God.
The old testament is very much rooted in tribal, goatherder overtly patriarchal tradition. And the culture being big on oral tradition Most of it was spread by word of mouth for hundreds of years before it was written down the first time.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if it got messed with in that time.
My belif system is more aligned with the Quaker mindset if anyone is curious.
That's what separates believers from non-believers, really. Non-believers believe God should be held to human standards. Believers see our relationship with God as a parent-child relationship where, maybe we don't understand why certain things are done or certain rules are in place, but they're in our best interest, so we should follow them.
Not saying you should/shouldn't believe - just laying out the story as it's presented in the Bible.
>>79156252 >I dunno if its just one artist or multiple.
And guess who makes the ones that are not-so-good?
"Those studying Chick tracts will notice there are two distinct styles of illustrations. One is very flowing and cartoony. That one is Chick himself. The other, mostly used in Chick's full color comic books, is highly detailed and at times photo-realistic. This second uncredited artist has been identified as Fred Carter."
>>79156782 If you couch things as "parent-child" you do know there's such a thing as child abuse, where the terrible things done to the child they don't understand are actually bad things done because the parental relationship is dysfunctional.
>>79156685 Basically, in the original Jewish, Satan is more like God's attorney, and goes around being a dick to people so that God can test them.
There's a big hullabaloo about the name Lucifer being in the bible, since the same phrase that "Lucifer" replaces is also used to refer to Jesus. there's actually an argument that says the KJV, in doing this, denies that Jesus is The Christ.
I'm pretty sure I already know the answer to this question, but does this asshole and other batshit fundamentalists believe humans are retarded? That they need the guiding light or religion or everyone will just start fucking and murdering each other?
Right, but Christianity operates under the pretense of the parent in question being benevolent and literally the embodiment of love. So in a Christian's mind, they believe that that's the relationship they should have with god.
Like I said, I'm not saying what you should/shouldn't believe, it does/doesn't make sense, etc. That's just the way it's set up.
>>79157060 yes, the same specific words in hewbrew are used like four times in the scripture. There's also use of Lucifer being used to reference John the Baptist and Jesus is refered to it as a title in a few hymns.
>>And yet we know for sure I'm supposed to worship him?
If you want his "blessings", sure. Most people in the world don't. Just know that people who do are generally operating under the principle that sometimes their deity does things they may not like, but does so for greater reasons than they can comprehend, and they trust that deity to be in the right in the long run.
In the jew bible (where the bible came from), Satan and Lucifer ARE two different entities. Satan is the beast of apocalypse who will come to judge mankind once Doomsday hits. Lucifer is the traitor, fallen angel who opposes God.
Here's something to consider /co/, /pol/ managed not only to ruin Ben Garrison's reputation but subsequently to win him over to their side more than he ever was before (seemingly out of a kind of on-line Stockholm syndrome) and he now draws political cartoons that are about as close to their beliefs as possible with being explicitly Nazi.
We're always having a good laugh at Chick tracts, but could we get him to produce a tract about something /co/ related by convincing him it's evil? That shouldn't be too hard if he thinks D&D and rock and roll music are satanic. Superheroes? MLP?
>>79155631 >And their families are cool with it because homeschoolers love Tolkien apparently. Well, Tolkien is incredibly Christian in it's core. It's not as on the nose as Narnia, but Tolkien consciously was using Christian themes, being a devout Catholic himself.
>>79157283 >Lucifer is the traitor, fallen angel who opposes God. No in the Torah Lucifer is a Babylonian king who fucks up and loses to the jews. You're thinking of Samael who isn't a fallen angel and doesn't oppose god, just tempts man. Lucifer being a fallen angel and the war in heaven being before the end of days is all from Paradise Lost.
>>79157733 Satan does all the work making people put aside their differences, open trade and demilitarize zones and get everyone working together, so that God can come in and say 'this is mine. I own this now.'
>>79157735 I'm not married. I'm desperately lonesome and single and don't even know the slightest place to start looking to find a woman. Wasn't the fact that I post on 4chan enough of a hint about all that?
>>79155928 >You can't spell therapist without THE RAPIST
You've been watching Squidbillies, haven't you?
>Then he gets everything back twofold (Job 42: 10-17), and a new set of children (because he will be reunited with his first children in an earthly/heavenly resurrection, depending on which denomination you ask).
According to the Jewish beliefs of the afterlife, everyone who dies goes to Sheol (basically, think Greek mythology's Hades [the realm, not the god], except with no way to go in alive like Orpheus, no Tartarus equivalent, and it's dark and miserable for everyone). As the book of Job is part of the Old Testament, this also means that, as part of the Jewish canon (which was crudely retconned into the Christian canon), Job would not believe that they would come back (and they don't; he explicitly gets a new wife and new kids, because women and children were considered to be property in those days).
"21 On the appointed day Herod, wearing his royal robes, sat on his throne and delivered a public address to the people. 22 They shouted, “This is the voice of a god, not of a man.” 23 Immediately, because Herod did not give praise to God, an angel of the Lord struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died."
You're right. I do want to add to that Herod was already being a dick to Christians, though.
Virtually all, if not all terrorism is either religiously or nationalistically motivated, with religion taking the precedence with a vast margin (unless you want to include war in 'terrorism' which seems a defensible position).
Islam, in any event, is on the whole an oppressive and intolerant religion where it has actual power. Discuss this.
>think Chick is just some KJV worshiping kook >find out that his views like "Once Saved Always Saved" and the belief in Catholic conspiracies are pretty common beliefs in the evangelical circuits
I mean go to /christian/ on 8gag, theres a thread where one of these guys is just spouting off the same twaddle you see in Chick comics and being completely sincere about it. The idolatry towards the KJV is actually pretty disturbing
>>79161214 Like most things, it's a complicated answer. The conditions for terrorism likely would not exist without nationalism and imperialism, but terrorism often emerges in places where imperialism and nationalism intersect with high religiosity. It's a little of column A and column B, not as simple as "Islam is the cause of terrorism" or "Islam has nothing to do with terrorism."
>>79153633 America is so keen on circumcision because some quack convinced everyone masturbation was destroying the country's health. His solution was to circumcis young men, cutting the problem off at the root so to speak. Of course the whole thing was bullshit but the practice is so ingrained most people don't even think about why they are doing it.
At the same time, the main harm that Islam does in the Middle East I would argue isn't solely to do with terrorism, it's the fact that a fundamentalist interpretation for it is the basis of a lot of the laws in the area. Basically, there needs to be a push towards a more secular society there. Too many on the left are content to stew in guilt over colonialism and imperialism without offering any real solutions, and too many on the right use criticism of Islam as an ideology as an excuse to spout racist ideology.
>>79162344 Because otherwise people would have to face the fact that there is no real purpose behind existence. The people who cling so tightly to the idea of "God" are the ones who would least be prepared for this truth, and would likely view it as an excuse to rape, pillage, burn, and mass murder.
>>79162541 You're stating that the for the Big Bang to 'bang', it would require some sort of intelligent driving force behind it. What I'm asking is why you're assuming that there has to necessarily be intelligence behind it, anon.
>>79162849 It's interesting to observe how god has been pushed back over time. For the ancients god was the cause of everything from the sun rising to plauges wiping out half the population it was all HIS will and you just had to trust he knew what he was doing. As people expanded their understanding god has been slowly pushed out of the picture. The sun rises because astronomy. Plagues kill you because shitty hygiene. Then he was less about day to day direct intervention and more about shaping the world to create the right conditions for his plan to unfold. As understandong of evolution and cosmology has improved the point where god could have played a roll has been pushed further and further back until all that's left for him now is the first few seconds after the big bang and some vauge philosophical stuff about the soul.
>>79162957 There are a lot of legitimate contradictions and inaccuracies in the Bible, but some on this site are a stretch. They could use an editor.
>(7:23) "He made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about." >This verse implies that the value of pi is 3. (The actual value is approximately 3.14159.)
I've heard people say that the Bible says pi = 3. It's doesn't. That's just the value they calculated based on the obviously rounded values. It's not a sin to use nice, round numbers.
>>79153373 You know when you tell a kid there's no monster in the closet but they call bullshit until you explain it and open the door with the light on? Or when you know a kid did something wrong but you want to make them admit it so they know the act was wrong rather than being caught?
That's the basic explanation for that kinda shit. Mankind is dumb, god has to treat it like children. Really stupid punkass children.
>>79155819 No, a group of very angry group of Muslims are taking over the Muslim world. Also plotting to attack other countires, but since they're focusing on the commies and Czar right now it's not a big deal.
>>79161664 The kind of shit that goes down in the extremist christian sect is way beyond what most people believe or even know about. Moral Orel for instance, which parodies those sorts of people, is pretty well right on the money with most of its portrayals, yet you constantly see people complaining that the fedora show is wildly exaggerating and that christians are nothing like what they're shown as. Nobody wants to know what kind of insane shit their own group is up to.
"Behold, I teach you the superhuman! Humanity is something that must be exceeded. What have you done to exceed humanity?" (...) "Where is the lightning to lick you with its tongue? Where is the frenzy with which you should be inoculated? Behold the superhuman: he is the lightning, he is that frenzy!"
>>79164335 There's a huge difference between Jack Chick KJV-only Baptists and the kids you see in Jesus Camp, which is a whole different animal called Pentecostalism. Both are bad, but at least Baptists don't run around their church screaming in gibberish. Protestantism already had dubious and heretical viewpoints, but for some reason, there was an explosion of batshit crazy doctrines and denominations in the US in the 19th and 20th centuries, many of which, especially down south are basically limited to "whatever the Catholics do, do the opposite" in their doctrines.
>>79164979 >Based on how we understand matter and the laws of physics behaves matter and energy doesn't just suddenly and collectively behave differently. On a macroscopic level, no they don't. However, on the scales of distance we are talking about here, they do. For example, many types of nuclei decay completely spontaneously for no identifiable reason. A single spontaneous event such as that (not nuclear decay itself, but the spontaneous actions of matter at that scale) could very easily set off the "chain of dominos" so to speak, and events exactly like that happen literally (and I mean the literal definition of literally here) all the time. Now, is that the confirmed explanation? No, but it points to a plausible one and involves phenomena we have already observed reliably, rather than inventing a magical conciousness out of thin air.
>>79164798 Hey, there could be a god. There could be a tiny teapot orbiting the sun. You're free to believe anything you want to, it's just not an explanation.
>>79165385 As I said, at t=0, the answer to a question like that is "we don't know yet." It is at t>0 that questions like these become meaningful. If you'd like, you can fill in that knowledge gap with God. That's your right. Just know that like most other knowledge gaps, it will eventually get filled.
You're right, we don't know. It makes no sense to presuppose a creator, however, because we have no solid evidence of a creator, let alone a specific creator being that aligns with the qualities put forward in a book written millenia ago.
And, to answer the original question; perhaps our human conception that requires there to be a beginning or end point is inherently flawed and the big bang just happened. There was nothing, and then there was everything.
>>79165820 >Change implies time. This implies the singularity existed for some duration and then something changed. There is a reason the singularity is described as t=0 and not t=0+x. Now, the actual nature of the singularity isn't completely clear, so maybe it did happen like that. "We don't know yet." But there seems to be no evidence to suggest that an omnipotent conciousness did it. >If there was to be a shift in that. It would have to come from another timeless being with one component. Consciousness. Why?
>>79155758 Probably some sort of metaphor for: When shit gets really fucked, keep moving, don't dwell on it. Looking back on all that fucked up shit will destroy you as a person. Looking back on the unthinkable horror of reality turns Lot's wife into something bleak, sterile and inhuman: a pillar of salt.
>>79166051 >>79166207 If we're in a timeless scenario, could that really be called a decision? Cause and effect itself is reliant on there being a sense of continuity, is there not?
Unless there was a sort of time above time like some sort of hyper-time but then we're getting into bullshit about higher dimensional beings and neither of us have enough psychedelics nearby to properly discuss that
>>79155758 If Sodom and Gommorah was a life of sin, looking back might symbolize wanting to return to it. Lot's wife might symbolize having second thoughts about living a righteous life and instead going to a city full of gay men who have a Broke Asshole Entry Fee to enter Manskank City.
>>79157733 No, because "the antichrist" isn't actually a thing. The bible uses the term antichrist (no "the") sparingly and it refers to any people who actively work against the teachings of Christ. There is no single opposite polarity son of satan antichrist. That's Hollywood nonsense. The fact that Jack doesn't know any better is telling.
You forgot the best part: He gave them his female servant and they raped her fucking inside-out. When she crawled back to his door in the morning, limp as a dishrag and oozing from all holes, he killed her, cut her body up into pieces, and had the pieces scattered to the four corners of the Earth.
Served the whore right for having a master who would give her to a gang of rapists. What was the dumb bitch thinking?
>>79167771 There is no singular, correct Christianity. There are tons of versions of Christianity.
There are plenty of people who'll tell you that the papacy isn't biblical canon. That doesn't make Catholics false Christians. They're just different.
The version of Christianity in these tracts is that of evangelical fundamentalists. They make a point of backing up all of their beliefs with scripture. Note how many references Chick makes to specific verses. You might disagree with how he interprets the verses, but that's a matter of theology. He's still basing it on the Bible. It's just as Christian as Lutherans, Catholics, and Quakers are.
Typical narcissistic atheist. "It doesn't matter what the original context and intent is, because what I think overrides it because I say so!".
>but it uses a lot of ideas propagated in organized religion instead refocused towards the state and ideas of revolution.
So according to you, any set of rule set is inherently wrong and "dogmatic". That means not only are you an atheist, but an anarchist as well. Congratulations, you are even more retarded than I first imagined!
>>79156465 this one is hilarious, but also manages to irk me. How can his birthday be halloween? There weren't even months or days when he was born. What arbitrary method did he use to pin it on that day aside from being sour about kids asking for candy at his door?
>>79168152 But half the shit he references is Old Testament, which is not Christian. The whole point of the New Testament is to explain that the Old Testament, which tells the story of the covenant between the Hebrews and God, is no longer necessary because the Messiah appeared, and established the new covenant to live by (i.e. the New Testament). That's not a guarantee there's weird stuff to criticize in the New Testament, but a lot of the time the backwards sorts who quote the Old Testament don't actually understand it at all.
>>79168776 >which is not Christian Except tons of Christians follow it, so it is Christian. Millions of people believe Genesis is literal. The Ten Commandments are put up in government buildings. Leviticus is used to justify homophobia. etc.
If you don't think that should be a part of Christianity then convince Christians, not me. Until they reject it it's still a valid thing to criticize (when you're dealing with fundamentalists). Like if I'm criticizing the Pope it doesn't make sense to say "well the Pope isn't Christian anyway". He is and he's not above criticism.
>>79155787 Well actually it was more to prove a point to everyone involved. He told Pharoah and all of Egypt "Your gods are weak" and to the Jew He said "Yeah, I'm more powerful than everyone, man or god, and I will strike down those who do evil to you for I am a just God." >muh jackass OT god To get to the point of Jesus and "nice God," God had to establish, well might as well use modern speak, a fanbase. He introduced himself to Abraham to basically to initiate it as a starting point. Then when they were big enough He let them know oppression so He could liberate them and royally fuck over those who oppressed them. Then He gave them the 10 Commandments and all the other rules to establish an understanding that God is Just and will reward good and destroy evil. After that He initiated the military campaign years which gave an idea of how He wants you to deal with evil: Destroy it and let nothing survive. >muh innocent Amalakite babbehs Yeah, but in this case, Israel's enemies were the sum of EVERYTHING opposed to what God had called good, they were the embodiment of temptation and sin. And if you are having trouble breaking an addiction to bad things, you remove it wholly from your life. Plus the conqest made the fanbase bigger and able to develop more as a civilization. Then you get to a middle point when God decided man was ready to understand that there were really no other gods so he had Isaiah (I think, might have been Ezekiel) do stuff like having the Baal priests try and conjur their god's lightning. Nothing happened and God shot lightning down to Isaiah's display proving the God of Israel's prophet was real.
It goes further but as it stands, it makes more sense when you apply exegesis and realize that the way people wrote shit down back then will seem insane nowadays. Talking snake? It's only a snake because the Levant has a shitton of deadly snake species.
>>79155513 Actually it makes sense. >Dude rapes your sister >Then he wants to marry her >Get him and his buddies to mutilate their own genitals before they can >While their dicks are recovering murder them for raping your sister
Say, you know the "if God is Good, why allow evil?" thought? Here's a similar thought, "if God is Just, why allow us to exist?" We are evil and pervert truth and goodness and God is fully in His right to stop thinking about us and cease out existences from time and space. But why doesn't He?
>>79169582 Free will. If God automatically obliterated us for refusing to do what is good, then humanity would be ruled by instinct and therefore no more unique than a turkey or a rock. The purest love is consensual, and God doesn't want to force us into it. It would be foolish *not* to take it, but God wants our assent.
>>79170121 >muh Egypt never enslaved the Jews I'm not going at this historically. I'm looking at the context of the bible. It says they were in Egypt as slaves so for the purpose of the rest of the discussion they were slaves in Egypt.
This was why there were laws about slavery in the OT. "Hey remember how you were slaves and how much that sucked but at this point in history slavery is a neccesary evil (that needs to exist until my Son shows up)? Here are some rules to follow so you can have slaves but not be total dicks like Egypt was. For example, there's going to be a cycle of 50 years and at the end of those years ALL slaves must be freed."
>>79171123 Indeed, it's a damn shame, anon, which is why I oppose fundamentalist Islamism.
I'm far happier with Christianity being in a state where it's fundamentalists produce dumb cartoons than enact violence on those they dislike, and only wish the Middle East was in the same place with Islam.
>>79170610 >not understanding what a of those words mean The Bible inspired, meaning it contains within it the inerrant word of God and truths about God morality and etc. How much does screwing up dates affect the messages conveyed?
>>79171123 The closest equivalent we have to Chick tracts for Islam is the weeaboo who draws Muslim anime characters, and he rarely makes actual comics. But if you were to make a thread about it, before it was deleted there would be equal amounts of picking apart things like Muhammed splitting the moon in half and people wanting to fuck the hijab girls.
>>79157733 Hah, you wish. The antichrist unites the world, then god kills everyone. and revives the people he kind of liked and then he leaves earth with them, making everything that ever happenned pointless.
>>79157017 A tenant of the faith is to be a sheep, they actually use that specific term. To never ask questions and blindly follow god ( they also use this term) So yes they do encourage no thinking for one self whatsoever and always be a mindless drone. Baptists tend to attract the types that need that "guidance" in the form of someone that will tell them 100% of everything they need to know in life and take away all the mystery in the universe. Basically people that cannot think for themselves and need a preacher to tell them what to do daily.
So yea they do assume all humans are just like them and require a shepherd to guide them in just about every walk of life. If someone does not have a spiritual guide then they are nothing but total chaos that will kill and rape everything all day every day.
>>79156430 He didn't get his family back, he got a new family. If you think that's the same, you've never lost a single immediate family member. Which I have. Frankly, kill yourself if you think a new family could ever make taking all of your first family away an ok thing. You clearly have no grasp on what a massive spit in the face that would be. It's almost worse he gave him a new family. It's like god kills your dog and gives a cat with a bowel infection to make up for it. It's new, a lot of effort, and it was forced upon you, all under the guise of being reparations? Fuck God, he can shove his mighty powers where the light doesnt shine. He's no better than satan, he just thinks he is. God is a monster, a tyrant, and an emotionally disconnected fuckwit. That is why, among other religions believe me, I'll never be able to respect Christianity. Only the ignorant could ever buy into it. Or write it, the fucking writer of that story clearly didn't know what it was like to go through even a fraction of that either. It's a religion of tumblr-tier safespace "no not reality! That's icky-poo-poo no-no stuff ;(". God, that Job shit gets my fucking goat.
>>79149622 Question to the people in this thread who are legit Christians(especially Evangelicals): Do you think it's a big deal in a relationship if one partner was raised Catholic if they're kind of disconnected from the catholic church but are making an effort to read the bible and are going to an evangelical church and trying to grow in their faith? Like just by fact that someone was raised Catholic should that be a big deal slash near deal-breaker?
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