What are /co/'s thoughts on ATLA's endgame pairings? It's been eight years and I still believe Katara should have ended up with Zuko, or no one at all. Aang's relationship with Katara was borderline oedipal.
Then You Are Lost. Only a girl with mental problems would like that pairing.
Kataang is and always will be the best
Yes. That and the fact that, for the most part, their relationship was very one-sided. And although Aang was spiritually mature, I don't think he was emotionally mature enough for a romantic relationship.
To be clear, I have no problem with older Kataang. I just thought Aang was still too childish to be in a relationship by the end of the show.
Didn't mind Kataang but I really couldn't get behind the Maiko ship. I felt like their relationship didn't have any real chemistry. All I really saw was Zuko and Mai, making out and then breaking up, and then getting back together, and the cycle repeats itself.
Aang was the most powerful person in the world and essentially immortal via reincarnation at that. Katara would've been dumb to let him go.
Also the only reason who Zutara was even a thing is because young girls wanted to fuck Zuko and because the fire/water thing as masculine/feminine.
that's what made it so good
Kataang was alright, the creators just completely fucked it up in the last series. You went from Ember Island Players of "I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIS AANG" to the finale when suddenly magically they're a couple. Shit was dumb, like a lot of stuff in Book 3. Zutara has its good points but it's one of those ships where the fanbase was so retarded it poisoned anything it came into contact with. Most Zutards I knew hated Kataang because it ruined their self-insert fantasies.
Azaang 4 Life
>mother died before she got to see the end of the series with me and my brother
Sokka/Yue was rushed and filled with stupid forced drama.
Yue falls in love with Sokka after like a single conversation, then cries because she can never be with him due to her engagement.
Then they go on a trip on Appa, Iroh talks Yue into killing herself and Sokka spends half a season acting as if they ever had a meaningful relationship.
>another shipfag has difficulty decoding human behavior
She was motherly to Sokka because that's how they adapted to their situation
This translated into an overbearing attitude to others she cared about but she never treated Aang as a son.
>*puts on hetero lenses*
Because being normal takes effort nowadays.
He was the bad boy rebel type with the tragic backstory, I remember the fangirls schlicking it to him in The Waterbending Scroll after he got all rapey with Katara. After The Storm they were gagging for him. And he only looks like shit in Book 1 because of the shaved head and ponytail combo.
It's a reference to a blog post Bryan made about Korrasami after they started receiving criticism.
The problem was (and they do this with a lot of their ships) is that we never explored Kataang from Katara's perspective. The reason why she was hesitant to start a relationship with Aang was because they were in the middle of a war and she had already seen him die once. She didn't want to fully give herself to him just for him to die, because she's already lost so much.
But instead of her telling him this and saying, "we need to wait until this is over before we talk about it" she just said something really vague about the war.
I never understood why Katara was regarded as motherly to such an extent. Yes, she was the one doing the cooking and probably other domestic tasks in the group, but she's also the oldest girl in the group and by far the most experienced with such things. It makes sense for her to be that way.
As for her relationship with Aang her nurture/care efforts never gave me a mother vibe. It's what women are there for, it's what they do best. It's almost like the women you people interact with are such cold harpies that the only reference to genuine female excellence is your mom, since anything remotely feminine has been eviscerated from girls as such.
Being normal is not an extremist position.
>says they didn't go a good job building up Korrasami
>"but if you didn't see it coming fuck you"
Bryan's been pulling this passive-aggressive shit since book 1. Or he's really bad at conveying what he means to say.
Kataang is average and predictable, but it's never painful and it is developed enough that you could see it coming. The only real problem with it is that it's not too interesting, in the same manner as a lot of friend-to-girlfriend ships - it never feels like they're putting much aside to be together (aside from a moment or two at the end of the second season), so there's not much drama or intrigue to it. They're going to have a healthy relationship, but that's kinda it.
>I never understood why Katara was regarded as motherly to such an extent.
She came from a village with no parents where she was the mother for basically the entire tribe.
Hey did those kids starve or freeze to death? Probably, right?
Dude saved the goddamned world from the megalomaniacal head of the military regime that wiped out his nation and millions of other people over the course of the last century, dude's been through some shit, shit like that'll mature you.
As someone who has never had an Avatar ship, the only thing that put me off Kataang (even at the end) was because he looked so young. Now I know it's because of the show's style, and once they started showing Aang visibly aging in the comics I became okay with it.
Oh yeah man, I still think back to that time my girlfriend called me a "sweet little guy" and then compared me to our adorable winged lemur.
I'm not discounting Aang's crush towards Katara, but HER feelings towards him were rarely depicted as mutual or romantic for most of the series. My point is that Katara mothered the whole gang, and that includes Aang. Just compare her interactions with him and her interactions with Jet and Haru. There's a clear distinction between her behavior towards her love interests and her behavior towards Aang. She usually acted completely oblivious towards his feelings. If the writers wanted to end with Kataang, they should have developed her side of the relationship more.
Zuko is the Fire Nation Prince. The Fire Nation killed Katara's parents. Why do you think this would be a good pairing? If Zuko marries Katara, Katara would have to live in the Fire Nation. She would not be happy with that.
Although, I can see them having some sort of affair.
But I also agree with you that Aang and Katara didn't make any sense. Aang falling in love in general just seemed way out of his character because he was so innocent.
>instead of ending the story on Katara and Aang kissing, the story just ends with the team looking out to the future, and that long-standing question is NEVER answered
>Katara and Zuko are never in the same room together
>Zuko and Aang apparently married waterbenders, because there's a Waterbender prince, and Tenzin has his waterbending sister
>but it is never
>mentioned who Katara ended up with
>there's hints for one side
>there's hints for the other
>but they never address it
>at conventions, they dance around the question, or have convient mic cut-outs that they aren't aware of
>and they milk the attention and debate and fanfic rage and never EVER let the shipping wars just die
If I were the Avatar team, I'd just let this free publicity and discussion run on for as long as possible. Fuck a side winning, half of the publicity was about these sorts of fights.
>fire/water thing as masculine/feminine.
I find it hilarious that there still isn't a canon in-universe example of a Firebender/Waterbender in Avatar. LoK was suppose to have it, then Bryke changed their mind when they got more seasons. The fangirls/boys must be going ballistic knowing Bryke intentionally misled them twice.
That would have been the ideal outcome desu but Bryke would never do that because they hate the ZK fandom and go to great lengths to piss them off. I mean, their hate is understandable but prioritizing a petty feud above the quality of your own work is fucking stupid.
I don't think Bryke are really that big on shipping themselves. The original plan was that ATLA would end on just Katara and Aang hugging and LOK was going to end with Korra being single, but we know fandom pretty much pushed them to making changes (though for different reasons).
You need to stop thinking of relationships as compatibility or internal matchmaking, or worse some sort of soul mate shit.
Relationships are 30% physical attraction, and 70% context. People who act like Zuko and Katara could never be together are just as deluded as those who thought they could be together in the current playout of events. They're two attractive young adults with a lot to relate to, and the biggest barriers to relationship building is the context of his actions, and her demands.
Zutara is entirely possible, but to make it happen, you would need to first understand what would attract the two together, and then alter the circumstances of the story to fit such an outcome better. And that would require a significant amount of rewriting and reformatting the Avatar story, changing not people, but outcomes. Preferably it rolls from something small, something you wouldn't think have had the implications it did. I think it would be better if it also changed the paths of the growth of characters too, as how they adapted to the world around them. Have them all lead to the same destinations, but allow Katara to explore her vengeful side more, or Zuko's more emotionally vulnerable, or Aang's duty to the Avatar title and his people. Zutara should just be the consequences of such an experiment, not the goal.
>Zutarafags still exist
I spent a disgusting amount of my high school life debating with these cultists
Won't spend any more of it now
I've never had a horse in the race that was Avatar shipping, but this is kind of my thoughts on it. Zutara was one of those things that could work, but the fandom does a bad job at it and is content to just have Katara spontaneously fall in love with the guy who spent a year chasing her and then move into his big palace and away from her very small family and have his brown-skinned golden-eyed babies.
Just as a testament to how much thought went into the pairing, a disturbing amount of Zutara fanart has Katara clad in fancy FN clothes, acting regal in some palace, Zuko at her side, maybe the childens.
And not a single thing about her proud water tribe heritage in sight.
Not even her necklace, as a big thing among Zutards was to give her a new necklace with FN imagery or a mash of WT/FN symbology.
Yeah, that was always my problem with it.
>Not even her necklace, as a big thing among Zutards was to give her a new necklace with FN imagery or a mash of WT/FN symbology.
I don't see why this would even happen, because it's not part of Zuko's culture to make an engagement necklace. Hell Aang didn't even her one, in LOK she's still wearing her mom's.
>the only reason Makorra was a thing was to appease the Katara/Zuko shippers
I never saw that outside the fire/water thing which is a really weak connection. Mako was like a mix between Katara and Zuko and Korra was closer to Toph than Zuko. So. It was more like a threesome.
That might have been true back in the day when most of the fandom consisted of teenage girls on the cusp of their sexual awakenings but you'll find that a lot of modern zutarians detest that rapey, self-insert interpretation of the ship.
To be fair, Mako wasn't really acting like the typical Firebender, especially since he's only half Fire Nation. He's wasn't as temperamental, obsessed with honorable, passionate or aggressive as most people from the Fire Nation are. He was ambitious at the start, but that changed.
Also, Korra really didn't act much like a Waterbender, either. She, ironically enough, had a personality more suited to the Fire Nation than Mako, even having problems with Airbending because of her fiery nature. In fact, most of her fights she uses waterbending the least, even after she mastering the 4 elements.
I really don't care.
People have been making stupid shit on the internet for as long as the internet's existed.
I believe that any idea or concept can have a good piece of work made about it, it's just easier for some than others. And I think it's a shame when those who are interested in trying to experiment with something would get lumped in with those who don't understand a story.
It just feels like this has stopped becoming a battle of 'look how dumb these people are' and more of a 'look how right I was BECAUSE of these dumb people'.
I think he was still ambitious, but it changed from "I have to do this to survive" to "I want to do this because it provides me with an honest and steady income and gives me a chance at normal life for the first time in years".
Another person who thinks series would be improved if Zuko was a girl
>best pairing not toph and sokka
daily reminder that everything else is shit in comparison
The final pairing was the most unnatural and uncomfortable thing I've ever seen in a cartoon.
I'm convinced the writers spliced in Kataang at the end because they realised they should actually have a pairing, and because they clearly though that Aang was the protagonist that kids would identify with the most, and no other relationship would have made sense for Aang.
But there are two fatal flaws in their decision. Firstly, I don't think Aang was ever a well written protagonist. He seems to be somewhere between completely perfect and completely ignorant of what goes on around him most of the time. The only areas where he's not basically Jesus are the areas that he is too young and immature to comprehend, which further distances him from Katara who is one of the most mature characters in the series despite being only a bit older than Aang. Anyway, my point is that I don't think kids really identified with Aang. I think they cared about him, and felt for him, but I don't think they really identified with him.
Secondly, they never wrote any romance for them. Aang and Katara are basically "just friends" throughout the whole series. They never wrote in enough situations that made us feel like there was anything else to their relationship other than Aang mistakenly thinking he had a shot with her. In fact the writers make it painfully clear that Aang and Katara have almost nothing in common. I got the solid impression that they would have avoided each other in any situation where they were not trying to save the world together. I'm not saying their personalities were totally incompatible, they're both inherantly nice people, but they are just different in almost every other regard. We need some solid grounding to pull that kind of a relationship off, and we didn't get it. In the last minute they're in love and they kiss and that's how the entire series ends.
I remember watching the ending the first time and thinking "oh... okay they're together... I guess that makes sense" Which is disappointing for the last scene, compared with the rest of the series.
It's not like I've been plagued with never-ending bitterness and resentment towards this ending for 8 years straight. I randomly remembered the show and wanted to discuss it because I wasn't part of the online fandom when it was on air. That's all.
Zuko is why that show went to shit. Dante Brasco can't voice anything aside from a dying panda wishing for death. The character is a bullshit stereotype that seems like a live journal character whose only redeeming grace is he actually has to work for his power - but it doesn't make him any better. And finally they made the conversion to immediate in story and as a result they ruined the value of Zuko's conversion to the plot. Zuko changing sides within the last 4 episodes would work much better, you could've made it obvious he was a good person in a bad situation but you simply ruined it by making him the outcast doing good. Shoddy writing 101.
But I'm drunk and Bryke are amazing smart writers who've never let us down. cough Korra unconvincing cough
Lol what? It's not like Zuko pressured or encouraged Katara into doing anything. He had a similar traumatic experience and so understood her need for closure. He 100% respected her decisions, whether they were to go after Yon Rha in the first place or to spare his life.
Meanwhile, Aang just preached about his "muh air nomad morals".
And how exactly did Katara bring out the worst in Zuko? If anything, she pushed him to become a better person.
They both became obsessed with self-pitying and getting revenge. They were dismissive of Aang and Sokka's good advice because "much ded mom" even though Sokka went through the same loss as Katara and Aang lost his entire culture. Zuko should have let Katara talk it out with Sokka and Aang but he butts in and guilt trips Katara into thinking she doesn't value her Mom if she doesn't take action, because he's only interested in getting Katara to like him and "fuck everyone else".
>manlet gets the girl
Katara x Azula would have been better tho
> implying that's all there is
And also people forget the from the ancient world and as recent as the begining of the last century if you were a boy you were old enough to fight in wars at age 13 hell, you could be a drummer boy or do ther support/non combatant roles like be a powder monkey, range finder etc. even earlier.
Most cultures both east and west considered you a man at age 15 and girls were often married by 16 as well sooner even in many cases with arranged marriages in medieval societies.
Most people were parrents and raising their own teenage children at age 30. And most diddn't live long past that do to shitty health, wars, famine or child birth.
Simple fevers killed lot's of people back in the 1800's
Yeah, if the Zutara shippers wanted a marriage then it should be the joining of two cultures like a peace treaty and recompensation thing between the fire nation and the southern water tribe.
Having Katara in all fire nation threads and ornaments is more fitting if Avatar went for a bad end and Zuko slayed Anng, the Fire nation buens the earth kingdom and Katara is basically a slave wife, a trophy for conquering their enemies and be an ultimate symbol of victory breeding out the water tribe and cucking their men.
One could also argue that Katara WAS basically a trophy wife for Aang, espevially considering the events that go down in LOK. Every older member of the Gaang had some type of legacy (outside of parenthood) except for Katara-who was reduced to nothing more than a wife/healer/mother.
>At least the goddamn Harmione shippers are quiet about it these days.
They came back for a while after Rowling said in some interview that Hermione should have hooked up with Harry.
Well, she did make bloodbending illegal.
Ironically, she is regarded as the best healer in the world despite the entire episode about her wanting to learn how to fight rather than heal.
>What are /co/'s thoughts on ATLA's endgame pairings?
Honestly, none of them were very interesting to me. Suki/Sokka could be funny at times but I never got a kick out of seeing them together. They're all just too perfect for each other.
>Suki/Sokka could be funny at times but I never got a kick out of seeing them together. They're all just too perfect for each other.
Well you're in luck, Suki/Sokka is on the way out in the comics.
Eh, being a mother is a lot harder than it looks and there is nothing wrong with being a wife.
Todays gamer femenist forget that children are a source of femenine pride and prowess.
>The return of Zutara.
I thought this ancient evil was buried forever.
>Eh, being a mother is a lot harder than it looks
Even the laziest and most incompetent of women can easily be mothers. It's literally hardwired into their DNA. It's about as praiseworthy as being a deadbeat dad.