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JSA Storytime: Thunderbolts
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Good evening owls of /co/,

This new logo still sucks
>>
How about that Bloodlines, huh?
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>>79108256
so reposting from late thread, this is even fucking funnier when you've read the comics it's referencing

Rich Ellis art, despite Steve Lieber's name on the cover. Sorry for the misattribution! It's hilarious work!
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>>79108270
Between that and the new Harley book, why can't anyone announce something I want

Am I really going to have to wait until June/July for that?
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>>79108270

What the actual fuck were they smoking over there.
>>
WHO HYPE FOR BLOODLINE REDUX

also the hell were they thinking changing the logo
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>>79108270
what the actual fucking fuck, man. who the fuck wanted THAT back???

>>79108288
this is just so perfect (and the plot plays out in Bru Cap, wherein it's basically "trolling Bucky for the lulz")
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Some dude is going to storytime an edited version of Secret Wars soon. I'm afraid it's going to be worse than the original material.
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>>79108322

i remember people getting mad about that arc with Bucky and Busiek being like "nah it's cool"
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>>79108322
>what the actual fucking fuck, man. who the fuck wanted THAT back???

>who the fuck wanted PREZ back?
>who the fuck wanted OMEGA MEN back?
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>>79108270

I can't think of a better way to embrace nostalgia for the long and storied history of DC comics, the home of some of the finest sequential art of the last century. It is truly a display of boldness to bring back such a titan of the past but now steeped in the deep, rich lore of the New 52 universe to temper it. Truly, we live in blessed times.
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>>79108375
You mean Illuminated? nah that stuff is great
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>>79108384
According to sales, nobody wants either of those things
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>>79108322
Also, have some discussion about long-form comics from Ron Marz's Twitter:

>Ron Marz @ronmarz Conventional wisdom: if you put out a solid book every month, you'll lose sales every month. Attrition strikes most titles. (1 of 3) There are finite retailer dollars every month. With constant events, relaunches and variants, good books get lost in the shuffle. (2 of 3) Audience has been
trained to invest in what's new/what's next, as opposed to cultivating long-term growth and long-term readers. (3 of 3)

Layman @themightylayman I've certainly learned a few things writing a 60-issue book. The biggest lesson: never again.

Joe Eisma @Supajoe after having done an Image book for six years I can say unequivocally that this is true. I won't do another long form series.

>>79108375
Illumibro is good stuff

>>79108382
they did? he was? got any links?
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>>79108270
literally why

also a good question for the Thunderbolts logo change
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>>79108412
>Also, have some discussion about long-form comics from Ron Marz's Twitter:
well shit, that's depressing as hell
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>>79108384
J. T. Krul, dude. Most famous for RISE OF ARSENAL. Complete with reheated bad 90s art as the promo.
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>>79108407

I was going to say "well they can still be good series even if they're obscure" but then I remembered that fucking Krul is writing it.

Why.
>>
for more retailer talk Big Bang comics did a sales analysis

https://storify.com/SKTCHD/dublin-s-the-big-bang-on-the-comic-industry-s-curr

https://twitter.com/TheBigBang_/with_replies

and if you scroll down their twitter they go through all their first week titles, it's pretty interesting seeing what sells like hotcakes and what flops
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>>79108375
Illuminated is great, noogie
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>>79108256
Hello Storyteller.

Didn't realize you started early. And yeah, that logo sucks. It looks cheap.

Also, I hate Meredith Finch. I FUCKING HATE MEREDITH FINCH.
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>>79108438

This hurts, too

https://twitter.com/McLauchlin/status/689247374628139008
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>>79108412

Nah, I think it was on like formspring or something. People thought Bru was turning Zemo into a mustache twirling supervillain iirc

it sucks about long form series. i don't even know how you'd combat that. Like Hellboy minis that build into a larger story? or just like 2 trades a year

>>79108438

I thought he had left comics!

>>79108472

this is also depressing
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>>79108412
And these Marz tweets stem from one shop taking about their sales and bringing up the "there's too many books for everything to get a fair chance" problem that I've seen tossed around too. Not sure what you do about these problems.
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>>79108495
>WONDER WOMAN #47 is now selling CATWOMAN numbers. Which used to be our lowest selling DC female character.
>Yes, that's right. Harley Quinn far outsells Wonder Woman. You think about that.
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>>79108495

Oh boy is this about the Wondy preview that got psoted? What's going wrong this time?
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>>79108511
oh man that is unfortunate
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>>79108495
yeah, I was done with shit around the house so I started early

>>79108512
>People thought Bru was turning Zemo into a mustache twirling supervillain iirc

well, he kind of did--there's a later panel where he hits on Sharon and it's just 'what', but, well, you don't win them all
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>>79108520
I should have scrolled down here. The retailer tweets I'm talking about are from this shop >>79108472
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>>79108495
we need more good Wondy storytimes around here to make up for the crap being pushed out by the Finches.
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>>79108412
I really hope Marvel doesn't keep going through with their "seasonal" plan.

Big relaunches every year or so would be absolutely awful, if just for this reason.
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So Captain Marvel #1 was actually pretty good?
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>>79108569
So what's Marvel got announced/solidly confirmed that hasn't dropped yet?

also, DC solicits tomorrow, I guess?

Captain Marvel #1 exceeded expectations, which were admittedly in the toilet, even if Aurora's name is still spelled wrong
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>>79108590
yeah it seems like ANAD wasn't quite a DCYou level flop but it isn't pretty at all either

I think another wave of relaunches within the year would perform pretty poorly
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>>79108592
Maybe not full good, but certainly not bad
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>>79108412

Marvel is oversaturating the market with product, it's shit. Also the constant status quo changing events and relaunches must eventually lead to a crash where people just burn out and stop caring.

I'm glad I started reading US comics in the 90's when you could follow something like Starman through 60+ issues, or Spectre, or Sandman Mystery Theatre. Or hell, even Thunderbolts.

Truly the last great era of the American comic.
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>>79108603
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>>79108412
I thought my LCS's owner had an interesting response:

.>Ryan Higgins @RyanHigginsRyan .@JohnHendrick13 @flycojoe @ronmarz I'll support an ongoing 100% of the time over a mini-series. There's long-term potential.

Ryan Higgins @RyanHigginsRyan .@JohnHendrick13 @flycojoe @ronmarz Treating ongoing comics like a mini-series, always restarting, is what's losing readers.
>>
>tfw soon WILD DOG will come back
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>>79108603
>also, DC solicits tomorrow, I guess?
I was looking forward to them today, boo

stupid holiday that I don't even get work off for

>So what's Marvel got announced/solidly confirmed that hasn't dropped yet?
Blade, Punisher, Black Widow, I forget what's left
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>>79108584
I can get behind that.
I am just so irritated that the Finches get to keep ruining her and her rogues. And she's probably still on it just because of her husband and because she's a woman. I think DC's well aware of how bad the reviews are and how low sales are dropping.

>>79108592
Yeah the art was definitely the worst part.
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>>79108638
None of *us* were surprised that BBC's lowest seller was Red Wolf.

>>79108653
Hyperion, I know; Blade doesn't even have a release date. Mockingbird.
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>>79108616
>I'm glad I started reading US comics in the 90's when you could follow something like Starman through 60+ issues, or Spectre, or Sandman Mystery Theatre. Or hell, even Thunderbolts.
now we just weep with joy when a book like that even makes it to 12 issues
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>>79108437
If you want to do a consistent long-form comic do it on the web IMO. Purest outlet for creative vision going. And it's absolute live-or-die too.
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>>79108558
>What's going wrong this time?
>>79101014
Doctor Poison is white now, but she's still supposed to be Dr. Maru.

Also, this is disgusting.
>>79101807

I hate this woman. I hate her.
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>>79108688
>None of *us* were surprised that BBC's lowest seller was Red Wolf.
I was surprised that Guardians of Infinity performed so badly for them considering it debuted in the top ten
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>>79108616
There are some creators who can do what they want for a long run, but there's only like 5 of them left. And even some of them get fucked around too (see: Johns on Flash after Final Crisis).
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>>79108688
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>>79108700

This 100%.

Big 2 are gonna Big 2 and people keep getting shocked when the scorpion stings them
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>>79108744
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>>79108738
I'm pretty shocked that Snyder and Johns have stuck to Batman and Justice League (and it's not a coincidence that those are consistently DC's top two books either I'm sure) as long as they have
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>>79108758
Yeah, but CHEW isn't Big Two, and that's Layman's baby he's talking about there. The difficulty of getting "this is still good" reviews and sales still slowly plummeting.
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>>79108803
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>>79108803

I fell behind on that series and never got around to catching back up. How close is it to the end now?
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So I saw Creed earlier and I'm suddenly really excited for the Black Panther movie because Creed was stellar. Ryan Coogler's direction was so goddamn good and the depth and breadth he gave an inherently populist (and unpretentious) movie was totally unexpected.

I'm not much of a Black Panther fan but I feel if Coogler can do this with what is effectively Rocky 7 he's gonna do great things with BP and a Marvel-Disney budget and backing.
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>>79108738

I thought PAD was immune after his first run on X-Factor kept getting relaunched, but ANXF died so quickly that got quashed.

>>79108697

Yeah, the best books never tend to even get past the first trade. People bitch and moan over the low quality of the early Image, X-Men and other stuff in the 90's but they forget that the success of those titles and the general hype around comics drove up sales on EVERYTHING.
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>>79108803
I forget who it was but I saw a writer complaining about sales attrition a while ago and how it shouldn't be a thing but readers and retailers have been so conditioned to look for books that matter as opposed to books that are good
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>>79108704
What's the point of being a writer if your artist is just gonna tell you what to do? The whole point is a collaboration, not just nodding your head at the artist telling you what to write because of what he wants to draw.

Really this woman needs a co writer if she wants to keep writing and her husband is a shitty writer himself.

And please read Wonder Woman god. I'd have Johns over her since he's actually READ some Wondy now.
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>>79108836

Creed is one of those weird movies where everyone I know, regardless of life outlook, politics, tastes in movies, whatever, all really enjoyed it.
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>>79108704
>I didn't have an attachment to any of the villains in her past.
why the hell did DC let a duo who don't care about Wonder Woman write Wonder Woman?
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>>79108834
7 issues left including the one this month
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>>79108803
It's pretty rare across any medium that that doesn't happen. Sequel books tend to sell less, sequel seasons tend to get less viewers, sequel films tend to make less money. There are some aberrations like Game of Thrones but those are all treated as devastating successes.
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>>79108831
Plants: fucking cool

>>79108834
Close, I think

>>79108836
I am hoping against hope that we still get MCU Bolts, because I want a book again, but I'm terrified of the monkey's paw
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>>79108762
Mai waifu
Fuck you, Slott
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>>79108777
I think Snyder is firmly Johns-tier in that the editors don't really want to upset him.

Snyder has said he has ideas for other batvillains and he's still getting good reviews, feedback, and sales. So I think DC will want to keep him as happy as possible.

And I think they're gonna start doing that to King too.
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>>79108895
That's usually true with books too, you're right. Ahh, the pain of the series that got dropped by the publisher...at least sometimes people have enough fanbase to Kickstart them, now, and you can't do that with Big Two IP.

>>79108924
I agree with this fuck you Slott
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>>79108896
>Bendisbolts
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>>79108939
>And I think they're gonna start doing that to King too.
I really fucking hope so

It was nice to hear that he was on the phone with Johns and Snyder about stuff

I want him on GL so bad it hurts
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>>79108871
Finch is somehow an A-list artist and his wife is a woman who has written like one or two things before Wonder Woman.

So.
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>>79108948
>dark European beer sucks

GTFO

GTFO!!!

>>79108845
ANXF was so dismaying because PAD books tend to stabilize at a low but VERY stable place.

>>79108954
don't eeeeeven
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>>79108924
>Fuck you, Slott

It occurred to me that both former supervillain girlfriends who dreamed of joining the Avengers when I started on comics have been fucked over now.

>Black Cat turns evil after a literal retard plot twist
>Diamondback becomes a stripper and then a villain again because her fiance dies of cancer

Thanks comics for keeping my belief in reform and betterment alive. I guess I should be happy Songbird isn't Screaming Mim and a serial killer by now.
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>>79108954
it would either be Bendisbolts, Humphriesbolts, or Willowbolts with an all female team

speaking of, A-force is probably going to plummet without Bennett or GWW on it
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>>79108861
Almost like Rocky? I think technically there are just some great moments in the film you cannot fault, and when it comes to personal inclinations there's a real grab bag of stuff to appeal to different folks.

I'm not one for all this #OscarsSoWhite shit but after seeing the movie there is no real reason Coogler doesn't have a Best Director nom. A nomination for Best Editing wouldn't be undeserved either although Mad Max feels like a shoe-in there.
>>
All this new issue market drama is why I'm glad I have so much backreading I still need to get to. Shit feels too bleak sometimes with the current market.
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>>79108836
While i have seen all the rocky movies prior to this i curious to know wether Creed works as a standalone - could someone new to the rocky franchise watch this this with needing to know the backstory.
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>>79108948
I've really lost my motivation to read recently. I bought a bunch of books post-Christmas, tackled the first one and was instantly crushed by disappointment.
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Perfect, no?
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>>79109017
Spencer isn't terrible, so i'm still hoping that the diamondback thing is temporary.
but yeah, we need more villains turning good permanently. And not just the waifu villains too.
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>>79108871
Because DC doesn't care about Wonder Woman. It's really the only way this makes any sense. Although one would think that they'd put a writer who gives a shit on every book to increase the chances of good quality. But fuck common sense, I guess.

>>79108853
>I'd have Johns over her since he's actually READ some Wondy now.
Johns Wondy would be a glorious cascade of references. Say what you will about the guy, he;d at least give a shit about a character's supporting cast.
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>>79109086
So we're gonna get beanies as merch, yes?
>>
https://twitter.com/RenaeDeLiz/status/689208049324568577
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>>79109051
Yeah, I'm deep in 80's Marvel and DC right now and it's such a happy place to be
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>>79109070
I think the film probably has more emotional impact if you're a Rocky fan but it absolutely works as a standalone. Everything you need to know from Rocky is given to you in the new movie itself.
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>>79109108
Flash isn't in much better conditions than WW right now. I don't think it's about caring or not.
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>>79109090

I hope so. I was going to bring up Constrictor, but I realized that it's far more likely he can stay dead and having died a good guy than stay alive and be backslid by some future assclown.
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>>79109086
it's beautiful

I really love those skull posters, they look great
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>>79109122
UnMarston, discarded.
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>>79109051

>Shit feels too bleak sometimes with the current market

In my experience part of that is being on /co/ which generally has a vibe of hating comics and doom/gloom
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>>79108994
she wants that Clint booty

>>79109018
A-Force has no hook whatsoever other than "girl book", and that's not enough, even for very lady-centric buyers.

>>79109090
>not just the waifu villains too
exactly
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>>79109108
>Because DC doesn't care about Wonder Woman
They care enough to give her a bunch of new shit right before her movie appearances
But yeah they probably care a bit more about appeasing an A list artist and having a woman write it.
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>>79109122
I can't agree that sexiness isn't part of it too. Maybe there needs to be a distinction made between being sexy and being seductive though. I could kind of buy that.
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>>79109122
>however to most "Sexy" means physical attractiveness, which shouldn't register as a top quality of Wonder Woman

How to square this with BEAUTY OF APHRODITE, tho, you know?
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>>79109178
>In my experience part of that is being on /co/ which generally has a vibe of hating comics and doom/gloom
that's ANY comics forum, cbr, reddit, etc. they're not much different
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>>79109018
>A-force is probably going to plummet without Bennett or GWW on it
So why did they drop it?
Do they just have other projects? Because I know Bennett is writing a digital weekly which is a lot of work.
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>>79109122
>But I look forward to when society considers these attributes to be as important or more when determining a woman's "sexiness" :)
She's right, you know.
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Wonder Woman should be sexy bc confidence is sexy and she should be confident as fuck

>>79109220

true
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>>79109216
I really understand what DeLiz is going after--there's a long tradition of equating beauty and moral goodness that's really not either true or healthy--but how to pull at that in comics is hard.
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>>79108603
Captain Marvel was IMO about as good as you can hope for a #1 that isn't totally out there, like Vision for instance. Established half-a-dozen characters with differing relationships quickly, action sequence, good character moment, mystery hook. It wasn't perfect but it was competent and I'm getting more hopeful.
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>>79109239
yeah probably? I know GWW doesn't want to take too many things on and Bennett has quite a few things going on
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>>79109274
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>>79109111
I hope so.
Casual merch there.

>>79109158
Agreed.
Although them all together on the main one is a bit cluttered
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>>79109239

I've seen people speculate GWW has something else coming soon

I'm more worried about Prez v2 to be honest
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>>79109293
There we go, Justine Hammer is who Dallas was drawing, the Crimson Cowl

>>79109290
I am so happy to see Puck in a book that's not by Humphries

Just don't kill Alpha Flight, F&B
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>>79109274
>implying these babes >>79107641 are not the highest good
>>
some twitterers with differing opinions on Harley Quinn

https://twitter.com/EmmaHouxbois/status/689156182284451840

>but hey why read a harley quinn comic when i can get bullshit sermonizing from bkv about girls shrieking homophobic slurs, right?
is about Paper Girls? I haven't read that yet

https://twitter.com/dcwomenkicknass/status/689215644831748096
>>
>>79109300

I'm looking pretty negative at Suicide Squad but i'm so happy for the merch
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>>79109324
I'll worry about Prez v2 if it's not solicited by like August.
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>>79109205
I would love if more women wrote for the main book. But I'm afraid I must insist that said women are actually good writers. And that they actually care.

>>79109216
>How to square this with BEAUTY OF APHRODITE, tho, you know?
That almost never comes up though. And you can't really tell stories about how attractive someone is without falling into the "so beautiful it's a curse" thing.
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>>79109358
I'm not expecting much but a lot of style.
And as long as something isn't too vapid, style goes a long way with me
>>
http://www.buzzcomics.net/showpost.php?p=1634481&postcount=1

Superman's construct eyebeams crack me up
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>>79109327

I believe I read that Busiek had no real plan for who the Cowl would really be, and thus it was all left up to FabNi. Justin Hammer only died recently in the Iron Man comics when this story happened, so it kinda makes sense.

Oh also Harrier/Cardinal is a character from Nicieza's New Warriors. That's why he's here.
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>>79109335
Apparently the word 'faggot' is used in the first issue, and some people got extremely upset about that

EH reads Harley as a queer, feminist, anti-capitalist hero and I'm not reading the book so I can't say, but...
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>>79108653
>>So what's Marvel got announced/solidly confirmed that hasn't dropped yet?
>Blade, Punisher, Black Widow, I forget what's left
Citizen V?
>>
>>79109274
>a long tradition of equating beauty and moral goodness

I know Eisner talked about always making good characters look good and bad characters look bad because in a short form medium like comics common symbols were important to telling the story.
>>
>>79109335

my snark and dismay has nothing to do with Harley and everything to do with Palmiotti

also that Paper Girls shot makes no sense

>>79109381

my problem is i don't like the style! but i'm finally getting Ostrander collections so i'm satisfied
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>>79109412
That's only a teaser pic, along with Death's Head II--I'm thinking of things with both writing and art announced
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>>79109400
>Apparently the word 'faggot' is used in the first issue, and some people got extremely upset about that
oh, was that another case like the "transphobia" in Airboy?

>>79109412
anon, please
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>>79109422
Haha, yeah, that's the clincher then.
I'm so-so on the overall style, but a few samples here and there look great to me then.

More Ostrander prints is always a plus.
>>
>>79109366
>>79109274
Equating physical ugliness with moral ugliness is such an old storytelling technique that I don't think you'll ever really get rid of it. And some genres like horror gleefully embrace it - and the inversion of it ofc.

I'm sure much cleverer people than me have written about how you focus on beauty only as a positive or how you disassociate beauty from envy, but it does seem pretty difficult.
>>
>>79109335
I don't understand the second link's sentiment. Unless you're a characterfag who buys everything, does it matter? They don't even seem to crossover so it's not like DC is forcing you to spend more money. Harley's not a character I care about, but I see nothing wrong with what they're doing. They need books that are guaranteed to sell.
>>
Hi storytime thread!

Whoever bought me Superman For All Seasons for the Secret Santa thread, good news! It wasn't one of the packages that I thought got stolen! Came in the mail this afternoon.

One of my favorite Superman comics. It's comfy as fuck.
>>
>>79109400
>Apparently the word 'faggot' is used in the first issue, and some people got extremely upset about that
And they're not wrong to. We abuse the word 'faggot' here on 4chan so much, that it has become an insult, a term of affection, and even a casual honorific. But in fiction and real life, it's still an extremely hateful word.

>EH reads Harley as a queer, feminist, anti-capitalist hero
.... PffftAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAA!

How anyone ever latched onto Harley Quinn as some kind of role model, I'll never know.
>>
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>>79109419
They are, but beauty=good is a pernicious idea.

Verdi's Rigoletto is so effective in part because the Duke of Mantua is cast as decent-looking as you can, and he has gorgeous music that even you n00bs have heard before** and he's a complete monster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A3zetSuYRg
>>
>>79109456
Yeah Harley's books aren't even crossing over with anything.

They're just there and if they prop up things I do like Middy ;_; then I'm okay with it.

Anyway she's pretty different in New Suicide Squad and her solos.
>>
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>>79109535
Right, but the getting upset about it was the simple fact that it was in the book at all, regardless of whether the character using it was meant to be portrayed as hateful, etc. (I did not read the book)
>>
>>79109535
>How anyone ever latched onto Harley Quinn as some kind of role model, I'll never know.
I've seen people use things from the Injustice comics like her helping Canary with her newborn or beating up Lobo for touching her
>>
>>79109535
>How anyone ever latched onto Harley Quinn as some kind of role model, I'll never know.

I kind of get it, I mean she's a character who managed to get away from an abusive relationship that changed her forever.

Then there's everything else about her
>>
>>79109535
Around the same time people latched onto Joker and Harley are examples of true love.
I've seen it.
>>
>>79109552
>her solos
>there are going to be four separate Harley Quinn issues out in April
jeezums
>>
Image's Podcast posted some panels and one had BKV and Chiang on it and BKV actually talked about debating over using the term and how he really struggled about it before deciding on it.

>>79109456

I get it, look at how people hate/snark/joke on Wolverine nowadays despite the dude having a lot of great stories about him

it's the ruined by popularity thinking

>>79109582
>>79109582

it was a 14 year old girl using it as an insult and she got chastised for it by another character. also the book is set in the 80s
>>
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>>79109582
KARLA, HONEY

NO
>>
>>79109536
I think there are different ways to do beauty beyond attractiveness. You can keep the Eisner idea if you have art that can show beautiful, but not necessarily attractive, people.
>>
>>79108612
ANAD would have worked better if SW had been on time.
>>
>>79109661
Sounds like that was a factor, but I doubt the books that are dropping 70% by issue 3 or are selling worse than before the relaunch would be much better off
>>
>>79109703
>dropping 70% by issue 3
Good thing they have like 3 or 4 crossovers before Civil War II starts in May
>>
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>>79109651
Artists with range on their women help a LOT, too.
>>
>>79109644
auuuughh

I don't like costumes with jackets
>>
>>79109644

Karla what the FUCK are you wearing?
>>
>>79109592
>Then there's everything else about her
Seriously. It's well and good that she got out of an abusive relationship so she can be her own woman, but the problem is that said woman is a murderous psychopath.

>>79109588
>Injustice
>citing non-canon alternate realities
Uh huh.
>>
>>79109729

Artists with range for lots of different body types and faces in general are a welcome talent.
>>
>>79109644

Jacket+Costume combo Master Race!
>>
>>79109651
I brought up Eisner, but even he didn't hold to it completely, it was just some guidance.In his longer graphic novels people just look like people
>>
>>79109736

HERESY

Jackets are my favorite costume accessory other than bigass scarves and high-collared capes.
>>
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>>79109729
Yeah, here's what EH is getting out of Harley's solo:

http://www.therainbowhub.com/harley-quinn-23-review/

YMMV; anyone here reading it?
>>
>>79109806
>bigass scarves and high-collared capes.
I like these, but I've never seen a jacket costume that looked, y'know, good
>>
>>79109729
Well with bad comic book artists everyone tends to look beautiful and traced regardless of their morality. Or are meant to anyway.
>>
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>>79109838
KARLAAAAAA
>>
>>79109772
There used to be an old test Marvel would do when aspiring artists came up to editors at conventions. They would ask them to draw children and elderly people. I'm sure a lot of people failed
>>
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>>79109856
>>
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Helmut, you ray of sunshine

>>79109871
Also this thread gives her read: https://twitter.com/EmmaHouxbois/status/621754260041166848

>>79109868
Ringo could draw Franklin and Val well, a task most other FF artists have failed at
>>
>>79109868

>draw children and elderly people

Did the Richards kids and Aunt May count?
>>
>>79109871
stevenuniverse.jpg
>>
>>79109838
well, that's a pretty glowing analysis

I'm not reading it either but outside of Harley/Ivy I don't hear much about the book's queerness and whatnot
>>
>>79109838
>>79109856
>seducing your alternate counterpart
Goddammit, Karla.

>>79109871
And now he killed someone. Goddammit, Karla.
>>
>>79109900
Zemo looks so femme-y there. Like he plays guitar for the American Medical Association at Ingolstadt.
>>
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>>79109930
It's very glowing, but I'm not sure how much of that is grounded, how much is reasonable extrapolation, and how much is Phantasie

>>79109974
he has the BEST hands on hips poses.
>>
>>79109900

>so like if you want me to buy into this corporate vs creator jazz, show me something. give me queer female leads or shut up.

I mean i know no one is reading Angela but still

also she has an ok point w/ the thing about sex being very hetero male oriented and that's another problem that more diversity in creators/editors/etc would help
>>
>>79109900
I loved Bob McLeod' s work in early New Mutants, he did a great job at awkward teenage bodies, especially how gangly Cannonball was
>>
>>79109806

I won't lie, I read Bob Harras' jacket Avengers when it came out and I liked it

>>79109856
>>79109871

K-Karla no!
>>
>>79109637
>it was a 14 year old girl using it as an insult and she got chastised for it by another character. also the book is set in the 80s

I just shake my head at the idea of people complaining about this kind of thing. Just makes me think of how sanitized something like the Color of Friendship would be if they took out the slurs. When the word exists in a piece to highlight to the audience that it's bad, why are you complaining?

Fuck man.
>>
>>79109847

Not even Animal Man?

Or the NEXTWAVE trenchcoats?
>>
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>>79110018
I mean to run New Mutants some time, I've read like zero of it

that first panel is OH EXPLOITABLE
>>
>>79109868
Oof, yeah it seems most artists can draw one kind of man and one kind of woman. If you're fat, old, or too young, then you'll look off the entire time since it's clear the artist is struggling and not used to it.

And I know /co/ thinks Jim Lee is really generic, which he is half the time, but how he drew Dick and Barbara in ASBAR reminds me what a good artist he can be when he tries. Like Dick and Barbara weren't just naked with clothes painted on like his men and women are. He actually had to draw clothing! And age appropriate faces and body proportions!
>>
>>79110078
ASBAR was some of his best stuff.
I don't think many deny that
>>
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>>79110073
>>
>>79110095
But Dave how could it be his best stuff if Omega Red wasn't in it?
>>
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>>79110135
>Matt SantoriGriffith @FotoCub 6h6 hours ago OOOO. #Spoilers Tomorrow is a BIG DAY for Black Alice in Secret Six #11.

GAAAH
>>
>>79109838
I'll say first I am probably not even gonna be a reader of that site but am I a real bad person for laughing at the long, detailed explanation of how Harley Quinn's description of queerness is empowering in the review and the two comments being 'I wish she was blonde again' and 'I wish she was with Joker again'?
>>
>>79110176
>Black Alice
WHY
>>
>>79110176

DAMMIT
>>
>>79110176
goddammit I want LESS Black Alice not more
>>
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>>79110208
Because Simone loves her

The only time I liked her was the Ostrander Blackest Night arc, he got that "annoying teenie" thing done well

also, Waller knocked her out
>>
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>>79110253
>>79110241
Black Alice arc is why I haven't cared to catch up on S6
>>
>>79110144
Damn you.

>>79110176
Comicosity guy strikes again
>>
>>79110279

I can't resist a chance to see all my favorite spooky magic-based characters again, even if fucking Black Alice are making them the antagonists of the story arc.

I mean for fuck's sake Phil, can't you call in a God Dog favor here?
>>
>>79110180
No, I found it funny too.
I'm still surprised that there are unironic Joker/Harley shippers.
It never really worked in the normal DCU as well as it did in DCAU tbqh

>>79110279
Same

That and the delays were really bad
>>
>>79110340
>I mean for fuck's sake Phil, can't you call in a God Dog favor here?
God Dog should show up more often
>>
>>79110180
Nope. That's funny.

And honestly, I'd argue that DC's most prominent queer character being a childish psychopath isn't remotely empowering. Rather the opposite in fact.
>>
>>79110342
>I'm still surprised that there are unironic Joker/Harley shippers

I stopped being surprised when I saw just how many.
There are a lot. A LOT.

>I can't quit you
etc
>>
>>79110372

He really should.
>>
>>79110180
same.
honestly Harley is one of those characters where i have no idea what the mass appeal is. It's like wolverine all over again.
>>
>>79110303
Do you have some sort of problem with Omega Red and his mutant death factor?
>>
>>79110375
>And honestly, I'd argue that DC's most prominent queer character being a childish psychopath isn't remotely empowering. Rather the opposite in fact.
Their other two prominent queer characters are an adultish psychopath and a wizard who makes everyone around him miserable, I actually think it's nice that DC's gays aren't boring and bland and watered down even if Harley Quinn
>>
>>79110342
>No, I found it funny too.
Well we could both be horrible people. And I also did chuckle at both of the preview reviews being 'WHO IS LEGITIMATELY QUEER IN SQUIRREL GIRL' and 'THE X-MEN NEED TO TACKLE MORE REAL SOCIAL ISSUES'.

I don't really get where this idea comics are the vanguard of cutting edge social justice comes from. It's nice to push boundaries but it's also okay to have a comic that isn't about anything in the real world.

I don't mind HarleyxJoker though, damaged couples are pretty fun.
>>
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>>79110279
>>
Have they actually shown gay Harley in a book? Or just the comments from the writers about her and Ivy being non-monogamous ?

>>79110450

>cutting edge social justice

Captain America 1.jpeg
>>
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>>79110451
>>79110406
It kind of reminds me of Waypool era

who the fuck wanted Deadpool Corps?

Fixer, you diiick

I miss him too
>>
>>79110430
Midnighter/Constantine hook-up crossover when?

Morning after where hungover Constantine wakes up and immediately has to throw up then Midnighter wakes up, looks at the vomiting naked Constantine and almost has to throw up himself in disgust when?
>>
>>79110493
>Have they actually shown gay Harley in a book? Or just the comments from the writers about her and Ivy being non-monogamous ?
They've shown some pretty risque stuff with her and Ivy and I think Palmiotti said during a fan Q&A session on twitter that he considers them to be in an open relationship but I dunno if the book itself ever says that
>>
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>>79110502
...so how pretty would Helmut be in a wig and a dress
>>
>>79110502
You know for a while I honestly wondered if this Atlas Does Dallas bodyswap was building to a relationship with Man-Killer but I guess not. Big Orange is looking a lot more butch now though.
>>
>>79110430
>Prominent DC lgbt characters
Batwoman, Midnighter, Harley, Poison Ivy, Constantine, Catwoman (?), Catman

Yeah Apollo, Bunker, Catwoman are probably the most normal of the bunch who show up with any regularity.
If Batwoman weren't the self destructive loner Batman wishes he were then she'd be that too.
>>
>>79110493
It's all just flirtation fan service.
>>
>>79110430
This discussion makes me think of this: http://comicsalliance.com/female-heroes-good-girl-role-models/
And they do mention Harley specifically:

>I believe Harley Quinn’s popularity with women springs from a similar place: she’s a character. She’s goofy and tragic and full of story potential. Her heart is bruised and patched and too big to manage, but she simply cannot shelve it away. It’s ugly. It’s melodramatic. And there’s no character I hear women cite more often as their favorite.

Which makes the "Harley is a great role model" stuff much stranger since the appeal for some seems to be that she isn't a cookie-cutter character that you're meant to emulate.
>>
>>79110554
Catwoman is queer, yeah.
>>
Everybody ready for the New Avengers destroying SHIELD?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BAlWqzhrsXd/
>>
>>79110554

Hopefully Alan Scott can get back to being a cool CEO with god-tier powers, rather than mopey Captain Planet
>>
>>79110554
>tfw Bunker will never have a duo mini with Beast Boy
>no Adventures of Beast Boy and Bunker

;_;
>>
>>79110605
>destroying SHIELD?

Good, they got way too big
>>
>>79110615
>a cool CEO with god-tier powers
he was pretty much that in Abnett's issue

now I want Abnett to ignore Ted Vasques and bring in a younger Ted as Wildcat so he and Alan can bang
>>
>>79110578

>Harley is a great role model

I think that's maybe bc she got away from the Joker? I dunno

>>79110605

I'm so hype for Todd Ziller America Kaiju I didn't even notice we're getting some To, rad
>>
>>79110605
>Marcus To drawing Songbird

Yes
>>
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>>79110605
>https://www.instagram.com/p/BAlWqzhrsXd/
delicious Songbird
>>
>>79110605
is that Songbird or Teen Jean?
>>
>>79110643

That's why I'm a little hopeful about the book.
>>
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>>79110670
>>
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>>79110691
>>
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>>79110702
two Moonstones Karla

surely nothing will go wrong with THIS
>>
>>79110605
Almost looks like Melissa's doing a "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?" pose.
>>
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>>79110719
that face mask is very...Carol-ish
>>
>>79110670
>Attilan
>not filled with mutant freaks
>>
>>79110719
Uh...Karla? You had a bit of trouble with only one moonstone.
>>
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>>79110737
these fucking faces
>>
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>>79110742
We will get to explore the bullshit of extra Moonstones in some detail, I believe

In fact, someone else carries them around for a while, too :D
>>
>>79110719
Goddammit, Karla.

>>79110670
>Yes, I do think Fixer is cute!
That is some mighty shit taste. Excuse me while I get a bucket to puke in.
>>
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>>79110789
>>
i'm so mad i can't think of pokemon that evolve with moon stones for a joke

Clefable?
>>
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>>79110812
ruh-roh

>>79110800
Fixer is...you almost appreciate his honesty that he's looking at your tits and not pretending not to, but you're still not gonna bang him
>>
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>>79110856
brb
>>
>Big Bang Comics @TheBigBang_ 4h4 hours ago
>SHERIFF OF BABYLON #2, 90% first week. Good.

L-let's hope that's the same with other retailers...
>>
>>79110850
clefairy, jigglypuff, nidorino, nidorina

why do I remember those so easily
>>
>>79110892
>not having a full living dex through gen 6

actually no, don't be like me
>>
>>79110892
Skitty and Munna, too(to Delcatty and Musharna).
>>
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>>79110884
confession: never played Pokemon

ever
>>
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>>79111007
goddammit someone retweeted my "Why is Dr. Maru Aryan Princess?" question AT a Finch
>>
>>79111007
OH SHIT
>>
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>>79111038
welcome to the bondage society of america
>>
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>>79111089
LOL
O
L

that's right, she uses Darkforce powers for sex.
>>
>>79111007

I grew up with Pokemon and it's been a hard habit to break, quite honestly. Seeing my sixth grade students read Pokemon manga and still pass around the trading cards is pretty funny those. (the TCGs were fucking currency at my elementary school when it starting getting big)
>>
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>>79111155
>>
>>79111038
That shit is always rude to me. Obviously you did not tag them because you didn't want to engage.
>>
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>>79111155
>that's right, she uses Darkforce powers for sex.
>>
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>>79111176
Right, I am not going to bitch directly at a creator, I learned my lesson there
>>
>>79111176
it's a review blog that routinely tags creators with bag reviews, I've seen a few writers asking them to stop and they never do
>>
>>79111200
>Blackhawk
heheh
>>
>>79111211

gross
>>
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>>79111211
ugh ugh ugh
>>
>>79111207
>>79111038
>@ariadnesisland
>Opera fanatic, mostly here for the comics.
This ISN'T you?
>>
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>>79111233
>>
>>79111211
BAD reviews I mean

>>79111225
>>79111233
yeah at least comicosity guy doesn't tag reviews that are below 8/10
>>
>>79111211
Even worse, they just like to start drama.
>>
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>>79111244
that's me, but I did not tweet at a Finch, I responded to the post about the WW preview
>>
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>>79111283
also, unfollowed that dude

I tag creators when I have a question or a compliment, mostly
>>
>>79111200
>Japan
Oh, I get it.

Is this a real movie?
>>
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>>79111297
>>79111308
I presume it's a real porno
>>
>>79111211
Now that's fucking gross
>>
>>79111283
Man is that even unexpected? I think we have very different views on what's likely to happen on twitter.

If you want to stop your shit going anywhere, lock it. Otherwise it's totally fair game.
>>
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>>79111328
That is true. And, well, it won't happen again, and maybe it'll get an answer and no harm done.

Twitter could easily institute levels of content access and chooses not to for drama purposes, I'm pretty sure.
>>
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>>79111369
>>
>>79111308
It's the seminal blackdom gay porno series of our times. PLWG: 12 Queers a Slave was a fucking masterpiece.
>>
>>79111369

also they're pretty lazy and shitty anyway
>>
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>>79111383
>>
>>79111385
>12 Queers a Slave
it's beautiful
>>
>>79111369
>Twitter could easily institute levels of content access and chooses not to for drama purposes, I'm pretty sure.

Twitter could do a lot of things, but I'm pretty convinced that they don't do shit to actually uphold some of their own content standards as it is so why bother asking more of them.
>>
>>79111385
>12 Queers a Slave
pfft
>>
>>79111369
There was a Marvel junior editor, I forget who, who recently tweeted about unfollowing a young dude she was considering putting forward for Marvel comics work for bad netiquette, like throwing a tantrum on tumblr or something.

And I thought 'isn't tweeting about this really bad netiquette' but also it just made me think in general about how private our IRL public interactions can be (even negative ones, even unintentionally negative ones) and how totally not private almost everything online is. I actually think the backlash is worse online than to a fuck-up IRL as well.

Long live anonymity I guess.
>>
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>>79111466
Pretty much!
>>
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>>79111495
>I actually think the backlash is worse online than to a fuck-up IRL as well.
More people see it faster, online fuckups lack the nuance that even RL fuckups can have

Anonymity is useful
>>
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>>79111535
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>>79111555
dat Songbird
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>>79111510
Ya skipped page 15, storyteller.
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>>79111535
For me for sure. I don't have a twitter, I only have FB out of obligation, I have no interest in being identifiable online. I misspeak enough IRL.
>>
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>>79111577
HAH!

>>79111584
not in the file, not sure if it's missing or just a number-skip by the compiler.
>>
>>79111535
I do a low rent podcast and somehow someone got offended at it today.

Shocking as it is a really low rent podcast.
>>
>>79111328
Maybe not unexpected but generally against twitter etiquette I'd say. Hopefully Finch will realize that it's the publication that brought it to her and won't get too upset.

If it was someone sensitive like Slott storytimer would already be blocked to be honest.
>>
>>79111605
Definitely missing because those two pages don't flow into each other.
>>
Has Plantman ever interacted with Man-Thing?
>>
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>>79111605
That's a Mariah-class outfit, there
>>
>>79111618
There was some academic thing lately that claimed we are now a victim culture rather than an honour or shame culture. I pretty much threw it out but it's true that victimisation and aggressively responding to perceived victimisation is such a huge thing online.
>>
>>79111628
If it was Slott, no retweet would be necessary, he'd just name-search himself/the title to find it.
>>
>>79111661
I talked some shit about some other comic podcaster's best of list and apparently they were a fan or something.

Which is funny cause I did it with warning the other podcaster.
>>
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>>79111641
Well, shit. the cbr isn't corrupted/fussing at me, so it's just plain not there. Sorry!
>>
>>79111628
I guess I just don't see it. It's like, your posted pubic opinion. If the creator sees and reacts to that how is it invalid?

Like if Finch did block storyteller and storyteller somehow passed a message to Finch asking them to reverse it, what would that say? I'm being super confrontational here so no need to answer if you don't wanna.
>>
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>>79111705
LOL

one more, or...
>>
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>>79111724
How about one more and then our bunker-busting Last Five Issues tomorrow?
>>
>>79111724
>not again!
how often do costumed superheroes wash up on the shores of latveria?
also one more plz
>>
>>79111757
Sure
>>
>>79111757
yes please
>>
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>>79111757
>>
>>79111762

She found Dallas Riordan when she washed up on the beach a few storyline back.
>>
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>>79111828
This just makes me think of "No, Warren, you can't blow up Beijing. ...Moscow is fine."
>>
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>>79111846
>>
>>79111834
oh yeah, i forgot about that.
>>
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>>79111866
>>
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>>79111953
>>
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>>79111972
bad French, Abe
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>>79112024
>>
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>>79112042
>>
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>>79112068
lookin' rugged there, Helmut
>>
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>>79112117
>that lazy lettering on the cafe signs
>>
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>>79112141
shit, how are you owls tonight?

it's supposed to be back up in the 70s here soon so I can stop putting off this garden job
>>
>>79111723
The nuance for me is that I don't think the creator seeing it is the issue; that's normal expected risk since creators know there will be negative comments about themselves online and they have to look around to gauge interest in themselves and their work. But once they get tagged in it can feel like they're being attacked and then they might react to that when it was never the original intention of the first tweet. That can be smoothed even within the 140 characters but you just never know how things might go.

I guess my point is mostly that someone running the social media account of a publication needs to be aware of this phenomenon and ideally avoid throwing their readers under the bus. But apparently they just don't give a fuck, I don't know.
>>
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>>79112178
>pep talk from Zemo
>>
>>79112141
>Cafe Bonjour
What.
>>
>>79112178
i had to spend a few hours at the veterinarian for something that turned out to be a false alarm.
so i guess i'm okay then. but it scared me honestly
>>
>>79112178
cold, and I feel an upset stomach coming on

>it's supposed to be back up in the 70s here soon
it's supposed to be 23 here in a couple days!

;_;
>>
>>79112178

It's fucking cold down here, but I've got afghans and hot tea at least.
>>
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>>79112206
This is so many reaction faces, I love it

>>79112247
>>79112273
winter here is this can-be-70, can-be-30, who knows? sort of thing
>>
>>79112324

Last year when I was still back in the mountains it was in the teens-twenties for most of January and February. This is a cakewalk in comparison, and is supposed to get back up to the mid-forties later this week.
>>
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>>79112324
okay, time for some Cosmic Bullshit
>>
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>>79112373
Helmut, you cheerful chauvinist. Even Parisians are people.

>>79112373
>>79112362
I don't do winter anymore, my coats are in storage
>>
>>79112373
>time for some Cosmic Bullshit
Yay!
>>
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>>79112429
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>>79112445
>>
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>>79112466
I miss the sassy/bitchy team dynamic here
>>
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>>79112508
>>
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>>79112528
Big Damn Heroes, or...
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>>79112542
>>
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>>79112561
>>
>>79110509
Why would Constantine throw up? I mean, Midnighter didn't seem ugly during his Grayson appearances.
>>
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>>79112574
surely this will end well!

thanks for reading, LAST FIVE ISSUES (for now) tomorrow!
>>
>>79112590
Because he's hungover
>>
>>79112594
I'll be sorry when this ends.
>>
>>79112590
He's a disgusting scrawny Brit. I don't see him as Middy's type. Maybe just me.
>>
>>79112594
Thanks OP!
>>
>>79112594
thank you OP
>>
>>79112594
Thanks as always OP
>>
>>79112648
Well yeah, but why is CONSTANTINE puking? I only read Hellblazer, so I don't know his tastes in guys except for that guy in the Azarrelo run who's basically Batman without the crime fighting and the costume.
>>
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>>79112620
Basically, we hit #75, we Threeboot, then we decide when and we hit Avengers/Thunderbolts and New Thunderbolts, which runs 1-18 and then legacy numbering 100-109, 110 is Ellisbolts.
>>
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>>79112705
Have you ever been blackout drunk? the aftermath is usually unpleasant
>>
>>79112705
Because he drinks like a fish with twelve feet.
>>
I'm not up to date on the etiquette. Is it acceptable to shill another storytime?
>>
>>79112752
go for it
>>
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>>79112752
sure is
>>
>>79112594
Thanks for posting as always, Storyteller.

>that preview
Such melodrama.
>>
>Tom King @TomKingTK 12m12 minutes ago

>Watched Guardians with the kids. "Daddy, why can't you write Groot?" Sigh.
>>
>>79112884
Hahaha
>>
>>79112765
>>79112774
Well Genis appeared a few times earlier in this and he'll be appearing in New Thunderbolts so I thought I'd try and storytime most of Genis's stories.

>>79112899
>>
>>79112946
sweet synergy, anon

PAD Genis gets fucking weird
>>
>>79112884
pls no Marvel exclusive
>>
>>79113048
Not PAD Genis yet. We're still at FabNic Genis, which not as many people read.
>>
>>79113107
Which I haven't either. You're doing good work, anon. I'd stay up but I've been getting to bed way too late.
>>
>>79115025
>>
Justice like lightning bump
>>
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>>79110850
>>
>>79109838
Emma Houxbois should stop woobiefying lady villains and talk more about her hate for Wonder Woman. I've never been able to shake the rightness of her view.
>>
>>79119945
Why does she hate Wonder Woman? The character or the current run?
>>
>>79120009
The character/concept. It was ages ago and I don't know if she's changed her mind but I still think about it.
http://mangajohncena.tumblr.com/post/11130364797/the-houxbois-academy-akoyam
>Diana is never just Diana. She’s the paragon of femininity, and almost without fail held up to be the Platonic Ideal of Woman in the iconic structure of the DCU. Which not only essentializes women, but nullifies any hope of ever convincingly forwarding the notion that there is no wrong way to be a woman (within the suffocatingly white DCU). It becomes Animal Farm. There’s no wrong way to be a woman, but there’s no better way to be one than this one! This is actually literally the message that Wonder Woman as she’s presented sends. Hence her legendary popularity among second wave feminists.
>>
>>79120142
I don't really but that too much. It seems like reasoning you could apply to any iconic character.
>>
>>79120288
Someone like Black Canary doesn't explicitly represent women the way Wonder Woman does. I've never seen a comic where every female hero in the DCU teams up and fangirls over how so like iconic and empowered Dinah is and how happy they are to be in her presence.
>>
>>79120348

No that's Harley Quinn
>>
>>79120348
I completely agree about the BC thing, but I'm not sure the other thing is a reason to hate the character rather than just the subjectivity she is often denied.
>>
>>79120516
I'm not sure if it's possible for her to be just Diana. It didn't just happen by accident. She was created as propaganda for Marston's ideal woman. Add 75 years of her being the only woman allowed to stand next to DC's most popular male heroes, and it's pretty intractable.
>>
>>79120627
I can agree with this statement but I think there are arguments for keeping her around within it:
>I'm not sure if it's possible for her to be just Diana. It didn't just happen by accident.
True but WW of today is not WW of 40 years ago and will not be WW of 40 years hence.
>She was created as propaganda for Marston's ideal woman. Add 75 years of her being the only woman allowed to stand next to DC's most popular male heroes, and it's pretty intractable.
Is this stuff interpretable in only one way? I think you can review and explore a character's background in new ways even when they have a background like this.

I think as such an iconic character it's important to have Diana be a good character I'd agree this kind of platonic one way of woman is not great. But I don't think it's a reason to abandon the character; in part because it's much harder to establish a new character to a similar level of recognition and in part (and with bias) because even if I don't like WW stories that much I really like her origin, supporting cast, etc. and want to see her keep getting stories.
>>
>>79112884
Think Marvel have seized on this tweet?
>>
>>79121216
I hope not
>>
>>79120732
They could never get rid of her. She'll always be valuable as a bland symbol of girl power to put on t-shirts, and she'll always be there in the comics as an ever shifting morass of weird gender politics and mostly bad writing.

I like a lot of "alternative" takes on Wonder Woman. I liked most of Azzarello's run. I liked when Johns wrote her as Big Barda, because Big Barda is a good character.
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