Why do people hate Brave? It's no Up or Inside Out, but it isn't even close to being on the level of Cars, and it's also a lot better than Monsters University.
People hate Brave because it should have been awesome.
Come on. Look at the girl. That is a stunning character design. Amazing, incredible.
Look at the title. Brave. This movie should have been about this girl learning what courage is, why being afraid is no measure of courage, but facing your fear and acting anyway is.
Look at the setting. The mythology and history and honor of everything about the setting should have been showcased, honored, exalted. Will-o-Wisps, Banshees, the Wild Hunt, Cu'Cuhlain, all should have been IN the movie as guides, characters, influences, object lessons....
Look at the situation, a young girl coming of age, courageous and adventurous, asked to marry. Look at the three suitors, look at their families. Those three should ALL have been worthy, interesting, nice. We should have cheered and wept for all of them.
She should have been in an adventure in the forest, she should have been cursed by a Banshee to be hunted by the Wild Hunt, she should have run away and been counseled by Cu"Cuhlain Himself to use her strength and the strength of her family to overcome, she should have returned to the castle to find her father and mother lured away by wisps.
She should have rallied all the forces of her three suitors, and triumphantly lead the defense of her home against the attacking Wild Hunt, the sky riven by storm, the Hunstman Himself cutting down her suitors one by one until she finally, by dint of her one incredible courage, defeated him and saved her home.
THAT is what Brave should have been.
Instead, we got... what we got.
And it got an award.
Fuck yes, we hate that waste of potential.
>It's no Up or Inside Out, but it isn't even close to being on the level of Cars, and it's also a lot better than Monsters University.
When you have to make comparisons like that in defense of something, it shows how shit something is.
Hard to argue with this. Expecting something amazing and getting something mediocre is actually worse than expecting something good and getting something bad. If it's just bad and you hadn't been hyped for it, you didn't lose much. But if you were all hyped for an amazing movie (and Brave did look amazing by those early promos and trailers) and got a mediocre movie that was like an episode of some CW teen drama, you're gonna be pissed.
Same thing happened with LoK. We got an overall mediocre show, but the hype for it before it came out was huge. The subsequent backlash for it not being amazing was massive.
We remember the really good and the really bad. Brave falls in the middle of those two. It's legacy is that its a Pixar movie, and ultimately the same fate as Cars and the other lesser Pixar movies, even if Brave is miles ahead of them.
Near next to zero actual Highland mythos or creatures. Touted all their "research" they did in the area they went to personally.
I think Brave was the start of Pixar not bringing as robust a world as they'd had before even with things that were subpar.
I mean we've got things with hours of John talking about the designs and the ideas behind Cars. But with Brave we've barely got anything.
Pretty pictures of her in another dress and that's about it.
>Look at the setting. The mythology and history and honor of everything about the setting should have been showcased, honored, exalted. Will-o-Wisps, Banshees, the Wild Hunt, Cu'Cuhlain, all should have been IN the movie as guides, characters, influences, object lessons....
Interesting bit of trivia on this particular subject: There was actually a one-off gag with the Loch Ness Monster diving on the approach to Mordu's lair that ended up on the cutting room floor.
Also, your version sounds fucking awesome.
Not only did it get an award, it got the award over fucking ParaNorman.
>I mean we've got things with hours of John talking about the designs and the ideas behind Cars
Well that's because John Lasseter's a car enthusiast to a point that'd probably be a mechanic if he wasn't able to achieve his animator dreams. Cars is his pet franchise and is the only Pixar franchise that actually has a Star Wars-style position of "Guy whose job it is to make sure all the spinoffs fit together into a larger lore"
>this guy doesn't even mention the trailers.
This. But also the trailers.
Fuck, they made me so hype.
Monsters Inc and even Finding Nemo (Dory could make or break that) It doesn't seem as concrete in its thinking.
Inside Out and Riley being in her almost teens and never having dealt with Sadness always seems off to me in that setup.
And Good Dinosaur was just a fucked mess that I don't think anyone knew where they were going with that.
>never having dealt with Sadness
I don't think that was what the movie was trying to say, Anon.
It was more like they had a world concept, but couldn't really get a good story out of it and it got super simplified.
LIke Arlo's farm was originally a full on Amish-style farming commune of different herbivore species working together. And the cavepeople had a bug motif to their outfits, which was how Spot got his name.
Arlo was originally a 20-something more interested in studying humans and what's driven them into their crops and yearning to get off the farm. Problem was they couldn't figure out a decent third act for that.
Really, I think it would have been good if they kept pushing the "Western with dinosaurs" angle more.
Brave wasn't even the original title. It was called The Bear and the Bow, but then Disney's stupid "We gotta name all the Fairy Tale Princess movies Adjectives to trick boys into watching them" thing happened and the word Brave got pulled out of a hat.
But that was the setup, Sadness was this "thing" and they'd never figured out her purpose and would freak the fuck out every time she touched something. And all of Riley anxiety was under making Sadness touch things because she needed to and making her Joy freak out even more.
Seemed rather confusing to me.
Yea that could have carried it a lot further. Pinning on a Western Coming of Age tale with Dinosaurs. Idea itself sounds awesome.
I feel like I like Brave a little more each time I watch it.
I mean, I don't LOVE it, and it DEFINITELY shouldn't have won over fucking Paranorman, but I dunno. I like the characters, the setting, everything except the story. I feel like if they made a sequel, they could get a better story out of it.
Also not enough fat Maudie tats.
Well when you pretty much use a doctored version of the DIsney film's logo as the logo for your renamed random foreign animated film with vague connections, you are pretty much asking for it.
Also, Merida is a fuck awful protagonist. That's what takes it from a mediocre movie to a genuinely bad movie for me.
For the title of the movie being what it is, Merida doesn't do much that can be considered "Brave". She constantly needs to be bailed out. Her mom killed Mordu and let his spirit move on, her mom gave her directions on how to get the four clans from bitchfighting, her brothers distracted the men and got Merida out of her locked room.
Meanwhile, Merida herself bitches and moans, nearly starts a four way war, turns her mom, who by the way is a fucking queen into an inarticulate animal, unleashes Mordu and nearly gets herself killed, nearly gets her mom killed several times over because she couldn't just go in and fix the tapestry herself, turns her brothers into bears, and then once again nearly gets her mom killed and then everyone else killed by Mordu, and her mom has to bail her out, and then she doesn't think to apologize until it's too late and it's by the law of Disney coincidences that her mom ever turns back.
Not to mention she's so goddamn stupid that she made a deal with someone she consciously knew was an insane witch to "change me mum", giving no instruction or context beyond that sentence and had the gall to act it wasn't her fault when something went wrong.
How is this a protagonist? Every bad thing that happens in this movie happens because of her. The only remotely heroic thing she does is stop her dad from killing her mom when she's still stuck as a bear, then immediately pisses herself and collapses once Mordu shows up. She learns nothing and gets everything she wants at the end regardless.
If anything, Merida is the antagonist, because every single bit of conflict is born from her actions. She contributes nothing positive
>But that was the setup...
It's been a while since I've seen the movie (I only watched it once when it was still in theatres), but I believe only Joy treated her that way. But just because the emotion that was more or less in charge (another things that's of course understandable, given Riley's age) who also happens to be Sadness's antithesis didn't like her touching things, I don't think it meant that Sadness had never taken control before. In fact we know she has, given that Sadness was at least her 2nd emotion ever. I'm sure there must have been blue balls rolling around in the background a few times as well.
What the movie wanted to say was that Joy and Sadness were two sides of the same coin, or that a joyful memory can also be a sad one if seen through that lens. Sadness wasn't turning good memories into sad ones, like Joy was afraid of, but instead she just made Riley think about them in a different way. Which I guess is what allows Riley to start having more complex, mixed emotions.
Keep in mind that I didn't really think this movie was all that great, either. I know and respect the fact that a lot of it is based in real science, but I thought the execution was kind of meh.
Also Riley has a big nose.
Yea that is where I'm coming from is that I think Pixar is becoming sloppy and not putting all the structure in they once did.
Its what makes me wonder about finding Dory. We've got two Clown Fish both of male gender. That's going to have to change because that is how clown fish work. Usually its the bigger one that goes through the change but I could see it being done with Nemo to give it more a connection with current topics.
A lot of Pixar's talent moved to Disney, anyway. Between Finding Dory and Toy Story 4, I don't even know if I look forward to anything they have coming out in the near future. Even Incredibles 2 makes me want to approach with caution.
But, not all of their talent's gone, so I admittedly still have some hope. Maybe some newer directors will do some great things for the studio. I personally thought Sanjay's Super Team was great, honestly.
Aurora's not the protagonist of Sleeping Beauty. She's the title character, but the story is about the three fairies. They're the ones who actually drive the story, get most of the dialogue, and do the most heroic things; by any sensible standard, they're the protagonists.
Cinderella and Snow White don't accomplish much for the story's resolution, sure, but that doesn't make them bad protagonists; it's just a side effect of how the original fairy tales were written. Even then, they still demonstrate a lot of virtuous traits - they're kind, hardworking, and genuinely good people, even if they aren't very interesting. And they're never once treated like action-girls or anything; they're just decent people stuck in bad situations.
Merida is the undisputed main protagonist. She's featuring in an entirely original (pfft) story. Every bad thing is her fault to some degree, she accomplishes nothing meaningful outside of one speech, and she acts like a bitch.
Snow White and Cinderella never actually completely fucked things up, they had things DONE to them, they never fucked up.
Aurora was a passive player manipulated, the true heroines were here godmothers.
>You will never take a deep whiff of Merida's pussy-juice-scented fire-bush
>You will never inhale the heady, feminine aroma of her hairy armpits
Why even bother waking up in the morning?
That reminds me of pic related. It was posted a lot in /frz/ and it never failed to crack me up.
It made The Force Awakens extra funny when Han said "moof milker".
Remember when Merida was on Once Upon a Time?
of course not, nobody gives a shit about moofy anymore
Subsequently, remember when Merida made an appearance on Sofia the First?
of course not, same reason as above
This. What this anon said.
The movie promised to be a gorgeous fantasy epic, the character design is fresh and different, she has a fucking bow in her hand in that poster. Then it turns out to be a fucking family drama where the mom turns into a bear? Really? The archery shtick was just for that little scene with the suitors?
The movie REEKS of executive meddling.
Didn't it go through 2 directors before they finally found one they liked? I wonder what Brenda Chapman's version would've been like? It was still called The Bear and the Bow when she was working on it. Wouldn't THAT be an ironic twist for /co/ if the woman director's version would've been a damned better movie.
This shit as nothing to do with who's directing. It's about the people who decide how the movie should be to appeal to demographics. Probably middle aged people with lots of money and no creativity.
When you compare Cars to the likes of what was coming out of Disney at the time, no. Cars is not that bad. When you compare Cars only to other Pixar movies, it's pretty damned bad, the only thing worse is probably Cars 2, maybe Brave.
I mean, how many Pixar movies do you think were WORSE than Cars?
Good Dinosaur went through the same sort of hellish development Brave had.
Their was a lot of back and forth over which direction the movie should take and the original director was replaced, just like with Brave.
It's funny. I never saw any hype or trailers for this movie before I saw it and my reaction was "oh that was actually better than I expected". Yet when you put it like that I can't argue with you. If you were led to believe it was an adventure and not a family drama, then of course you were disappointed. I also agree that Merida wasn't very heroic and is more like a villain of the story, plus the plot and the world building didn't go very well together. The fantasy element was pointless almost. You can really tell they changed the director in the middle of the project. Like two movies mashed together.
its just that most of Pixars movies are pretty good
but I would say Cars is at least on the same level as Ratatouille or the original Monsters Inc. which aren't Pixar's best either but people still like them
Cars isn't so much aggressively worse than any of Pixars other movies that it deserves to be the bottom standard for all Pixar movies
also I really think people would like Cars a lot better if Larry the cable guy just hadn't been in it
I mean I would
I didn't like Cars for the premise. Talking, living cars. In a world with no people. Just Cars. It's just such a awful premise for a movie. I know it's just a kids movie, but it is the MOST kid made movie Pixar has ever made, and that isn't even talking about the story just being a rehash of Doc Hollywood.
Ratatouille and Monsters Inc were both worlds better than Cars.
Plot, a MC that doesn't make you want to bash her in the head, a better message than "Be horrible to your family and then cry about it and you'll get your way and all will be forgiven."
From what I understand Brave started as an idea to invert Pixar's usual father/son relationship drama and turn it into a mother/daughter relationship drama. That's all well and good but without a solid story to back it up you don't have a movie.
It's like the force awakens in a lot of ways. There a lot of good characters and visuals, its just that the script doesn't give them anything interesting to do.
can you imagine what Cars would've been like if there had been humans in it?
it would've either been really weird (if the people realized they were driving sentient cars which would basically be transformers without the transforming) or really boring (if the people didn't realize they were driving sentient cars in which case it would've just been like Toy Story but probably much worse)
having no people in the movie was definitely the right decision
but the part I like about the premise of Cars is that Pixar could've easily done the same thing with robots or basically any kind of machine
but they used cars for a lot of compelling reasons
cars are a pretty universal thing these days pretty much everybody knows what they are
there is a lot of variety and history and culture to cars because they are one of those inventions that pretty much revolutionized most peoples lives
because of that it was very natural for them to create unique personalities and a unique world based just around cars
Monsters Inc. is basically the same idea at first (a world similar to ours but with monsters instead of people) but because it had no basis in reality they really had no choice but to compensate for that by extending the premise further
also I think Cars is weirdly appealing to both kids and adults in a sort of abnormal way because kids like cars but don't really understand them
adults do understand them and theres also a lot of adults who like cars
That's pretty much how I felt about it, but it opened late near me so I had plenty of time to read some of the more negative impressions.
I think the core themes of Ratatouille are much stronger and clearer, which probably made it more resilient.
Romeo and Juliet is a tragedy though.
ParaNorman also had an innovative combination of computer and stop motion animation.
That wasn't what the previous Anon was saying though. And honestly I agree with him that Learn me Right was a great song.
Also I'm not crazy about Mumford and Sons either, but I also certainly wouldn't call them shit.
>Holy shit this looks great
>Awesome character designs
>Adventurous redhead archer fighting wild animals in fantasy scotland sounds fucking GOAT
>Movie comes out
>Suddenly mother/daughter drama
>Not what I was expecting, but it might still be interesting if it's well written
>LOL NOPE WE BEARS NOW
>WACKY BEAR ANTICS
>AND MERIDA IS AN IRREDEEMABLE CUNT THE ENTIRE MOVIE
I've never been so disappointed. I was so hyped and they killed it. I mean, visually it's still great, and there's a few good things like Mor'du being a badass, but holy shit it can't save the cliche plot and shitty characters.
I hate how overrated it is, I collage there's always this one tumblrina who goes on about how this film and frozen changed her life.
also it ripped of elements from one my my all-time favourites HTTYD