Do you think that pain and suffering is what makes a hero?

>>79042600
>>79042680
>>79042704
/co/ in a nutshell

>>79042382
Looking at the thumbnail, I thought this was the page where DD tells Luke Cage they're both black.

>>79042382
>powered by Loss
:^)

>>79042382
No, but it makes a plot into something beyond superficial slice-of-life entertainment.

>>79042382
>cops are the real heroes
Fuck off Daredevil.

>>79042967
But they are real heroes, and so are firefighters

>>79042967
Fuck off Anon.
Not all cops are heroes, but a lot of them are. Cops save lives and help people every day.

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Yes but American superheroes handle it very poorly and just put the hero through shit for cheap drama with no real depth or purpose to it other than pushing soap opera-tier writing.

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>>79042382
Yes. In fact, being a cynical asshole that burns people's arms off and bangs random drunk women is the way to go.

Good pure inspirational faggots are for Queers and Faggots. Everything has to be grounded and realistic.
How can I relate to Superman and Captain Marvel if they aren't assholes like me?!!! (THANKS MAX LANDIS/GEOFF JOHNS!)

>>79043416
they only save white lives though :^^))))))

>>79043542
0/10

>>79042382

Well it certainly gives a drive that those who haven't experienced it can never have. I mean, just look at Punisher and Batman, they just cannot be fucking stopped. Their tragedies broke some kind of inhibitor in them, and that allows them to push themselves further than any normal human should be able to go.

>>79043492
I take it you're implying that Kamen Rider and Toku heroes do it better

>>79043512
Think about it, if you genocide all mankind then there won't be crime anymore right?

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Yep.

>>79044272
Wasn't the whole point that Zoom was wrong and crazy? He was meant to be a deconstruction of this cliché, bringing it to its logical extreme.

>>79042382
That third panel looks kinda fucked up

>>79043685
Fiction vs. Reality

In a way this is kinda surreal for me. I can't ever remember being on the side of reality before.

>>79044170
Glad you could join us, every JRPG boss ever

DD is ALL about him dealing with his suffering. A dead father, his blindness... Also, every goddamn time you see him facing a big villain you already know that he will be kicked hard to death and then (and just THEN) he's gonna find the force to struggle till the victory.

If you just think about it this is something that is really easy to match with the a catholic vision of life. And. indeed, DD is THE catholic hero.

I like him, but this is his way of being a hero, not everybody's way.

It's also true that a lot of Marvel and DC heroes start their path of justice with some kind of trauma, like Batman, Iron Man, Spidey... But then, they just don't have this pain as a real costant in their stories... This is pretty like a DD thing.

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>>79044088
They do.

>>79043512
Why are you blaming MAX LANDIS MAX LANDIS MAX LANDIS when he's the one who actually spoke up in defense of Superman in contrast to "sociopathic bullies" like Batman and Spider-Man and hated Man of Steel because of how callously Metropolis was wrecked?

>>79044997
The Fantastic Four are examples of heroes who are great not because of what they've lost, but what they've gained as a family

>>79045061
Yup, totally.

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>>79044088
Do you not imply that?

>>79044997
But DD's suffering is not his motivation be a hero. His motivation to be a hero is justice. Justice motivates him to overcomes his suffering, not the other way around.

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>>79045031
Yeah, he really cares about Clark not causing property damage.

And I'm glad he makes Clark care about helping villains (unlike Spidey!) like shooting heatvision at the robber and Joker and leaving Slade Wilson to drown. What a Hero! 10/10! Marvel better watch out.

>>79045031
>"sociopathic bullies" like Batman and Spider-Man
>Spider-Man
Spider-Man does help his villains though. He helped Dr Conners with the Lizard. Begged Rhino to stay with his wife. Regularly tries to convince Black Catcto turn her life around. Helped The Prowler. And Even taught a X-Men class that even villains need saving.

Goddamn, Max Landis, read a fucking comic.

>>79045623
Suffering is not his motivation, but it is something that he just has to take with him in all his adventures, this is what i'm saying

>>79043492
im sure im being baited, but i honestly cant believe youre saying that muh daredevil is more soapy than fucking Kamen "if i believe i can win!" Rider

>>79044572
>>79044170
How about killing everyone and replacing them with exact duplicates? That seems like a great idea.

>>79045198
that is literally the most retarded shit i have ever seen.

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>>79042382
>>79042600
>>79042680
>>79042704
>>79042723

>>79047116
>>79047146

Same capeshit cuck.

>>79046779
And sold his marriage and existence of his daughter to the Devil to save his already aging aunt.
THAT IS STILL CANON MOTHERFUCKER.

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>>79047116
American superheroes whine and monologue for book after book and arc after arc about whatever forced drama their hack writers force on them.
Kamen Riders get the shit beaten out of them and sometimes literally crawl back from the wreckage to fight again with nothing but resolve and hard work knowing they're going to have to deal with this for the rest of their life and there will be no peace for them tomorrow. And unlike your capeshit by and large except on a few occasions there's no magic reset button that resurrects their dead friends and loved ones or give them back what they've lost.

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>>79044088
Why stop at toku, anime and manga does it better too.
Kenshiro alone puts the entirety of /co/ superheroes to shame for the sheer fact that in his case right makes might and his good spirit and suffering living in a horrible world is what powers him.

Superman

>>79047301
He still cares about his villains and helps them. He would probably help Mephisto turn his life around if he let him.

MJ told him to make that deal.

>>79047491
So you think a character needs to suffer and have their parents killed by 5th dimensional beings in order to b interesting?

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>Has spent the past 10K years in constant suffering and near-madness holding the twitching anus of hell closed with every ounce of willpower left in his decaying corpse to preserve an empire that has fallen far from what he wanted simply because for all our egregious faults he still loves mankind

See if your circus strongmen superheroes prancing around in pajamas beating up muggers know the real meaning of sacrifice and suffering for the common good.

>>79043512
Why are you such an embarrassing idiot?

1. Elseworld
2. Didn't have full control of his powers

You're no fan of Superman

>>79048123
>You're not a fan of Superman if you want Superman to be a fun inspiration character and not a gritty dudebro that burns people's arms off
Because when true superman fans think of superman, they think of all the horrific acts he commits! :^D

>>79043492
Man, The First really improved that shitty outfit

>>79048668
Spoken in the predictable manner of a /co/ pleb

>>79045061

That's... *sniff*....beautiful.

>>79042680
>>79042600
>>79042704

Can you repeat the question?

>>79047410

lol gay power rangers for hipsters

It's not the pain and suffering that makes a hero, but that person's ability to endure it and still grasp victory that makes a hero. At least, isn't that what the classic definition of a hero is, according to fellas like Joseph Campbell?

>>79042382
>cops
>firemen
>soldiers

Doesn't Waid know these are all racist problematic organizations?

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>>79048693
Are you going to say that this isn't objetively better than that motorcycle helmet and tracksuit?

>>79049565
He knows cops are now because the Baby TrayTray died (even wrote an isue about him and the evil nazi court system) and the #BLACKLIVESMATTER movement.

>>79046577
>>79046577
jesus this is like the ninth thread i've either seen you or someone with the exact same opinion and shitposting style as you. American Alien isn't a story about Superman being Superman. It's a story about Clark before he's Superman. He's a kid with unlimited power, totally unprepared for these situations he finds himself in. It's about him making mistakes, learning from them, and GROWING UP, eventually becoming Superman.

What would be a better story? Clark doing chores around the farm, eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with the crust cut off? Maybe he could go to school with Lex Luthor, and no matter how nice Clark was to him Lex could be MEAN, because he is a BAD GUY. But Clark just sighs and keeps trying, because he's just such a GOOD GUY.

They've told that story for close to a century. You want a perfect, flawless god in bright red underpants, there's an abundance of books and comics you can read and keep on your bookshelf. "But oh, if he makes mistakes or has flaws he's not a role model! Think of the children!" If anything, it makes him a BETTER role model, because like the rest of us, Superman has to live with his choices, mistakes, and consequences. He doesn't let accidents and missteps define him, he defines himself by deciding that come what may, he's never going to give up, and he's always going to do the right thing.

But hey, it's ok. It's perfectly fine to like stories about the SUPER in Superman. American Alien is a story about the MAN in Superman. It doesn't have to be your cup of tea, but don't try and peddle this glorification of violence and 'dude-bro'ness narrative you've got going.

>in b4 you try and cite Clark burning that guys arms off as an example of always doing the right thing and completely miss the point about making mistakes
>in b4 someone gets excited that I typed "MAN in Superman" and floods the thread with hot BrucexClark slashpics.

>>79049842
It's not enough to redeem a shitty movie. If you weren't 12 years old you'd realize this.

>>79051678
I never said the movie was better than the series

>>79051883
You clearly think so though and are now trying to save face.

>>79043542
Thus making them heroes.

>>79046779
He meant that Spider-Man will beat you up and make fun of you while doing it.

>>79051144
Superman doesn't need to burn people's arms off or lose his parents to make him interesting. And putting gore and violence doesn't make it """""deep"""" and """""mature""""". Him making horrific acts like burning people's arms off or leaving Slade Wilson to drown or wrecking walls isn't what makes him a good character. Making "mistakes" isn't what makes Superman interesting. What makes him great is that he's a Super nice guy that doesn't do stuff that wolverine and punisher does. This goes for Clark Kent too because Clark and Superman are one in the same. Superman is based off Clark's kindness. Clark is suppose to be a good kid who does the right thing and believes and loves everyone (that's what makes Superman who he is)
>What would be a better story? Clark doing chores around the farm, eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with the crust cut off? Maybe he could go to school with Lex Luthor, and no matter how nice Clark was to him Lex could be MEAN, because he is a BAD GUY. But Clark just sighs and keeps trying, because he's just such a GOOD GUY.
Sounds better than Ameican Alien
>He doesn't let accidents and missteps define him, he defines himself by deciding that come what may, he's never going to give up, and he's always going to do the right thing.
So Clark should never take responsibility for his actions? Okay!
And not every "MAN" is a cynical asshole or horny fratboy like Max Landis's Clark or Geoff Johns Billy Batson. Some people are actually good people. Just because people like you would use superpowers to hurt people, doesn't mean EVERYONE would.
Also
>IT'S OKAY CLAK IS A TERRIBLE PERSON! IT'S FIRST DAY!
Typical MoS excuse

>>79042382
A hero? Sometimes.
An asshole? Most of time.

>>79053289
>Geoff johns bills batson
You know billy was the most kindhearted mothetfucker on all league right ? His interaction with Cyborg, his joy to help people, for fuck sakes man

A hero is just a man who knows he is free.

>>79042382
Who's run is this from?

>>79047219
ya got me senpai :^) no go jerk off to your squinty eye dramas

>>79042382
a lot of super heroes have some bad stuff in their backgrounds, but most of their pain and suffering are side effects of being a superhero

>>79055330
but..... his parents are deeeeeaaaad.

>>79042382
I think that people empathize with heroes based on loss and suffering. It is harder to understand a hero that is genuinely nice and acting as a good samaritan, but something about that speaks to us on a subconscious feels level. Its why we tend to like Batman more, but things like Superman's "Dreams life us up" speech hit us harder.

We empathize with Batman's loss and view of the world, but we want to live in a world with Superman and Captain America in it because that means there are people who would do good for no other reason than they have the power to do it.

>>79055410
> Lift us up.
Also that "Your doctor was stuck in traffic, you are stronger than you think you are" speech to that suicidal girl.

Heroism is a matter of how people deal with what life throws at them in general. If you don't let fear stop you, that can be heroic. If don't let self doubt or setbacks or impossible odds stop you, that can be heroic as well. And of course if you don't let pain and suffering stop you, that can definitely be heroic.

But as Daredevil said, it's insulting to suggest that only pain and suffering can motivate heroism.

>>79048021
>worshipping the false emperor

This is a chaos board. Faggots like you belong on >>>r/imperium

>>79055629
The ruinous powers shall never claim this board. In His name I shall purify it of your filth and mutation!

>>79042382
No,but definitely a vigilante.

>>79042382
if we're defining heroes as people in costumes, then yeah

it doesn't really make any sense to me that putting on a costume and going around to save people under a pseudonym would be a decision a normal, adjusted person comes to