>>79042382 Yes. In fact, being a cynical asshole that burns people's arms off and bangs random drunk women is the way to go.
Good pure inspirational faggots are for Queers and Faggots. Everything has to be grounded and realistic. How can I relate to Superman and Captain Marvel if they aren't assholes like me?!!! (THANKS MAX LANDIS/GEOFF JOHNS!)
Well it certainly gives a drive that those who haven't experienced it can never have. I mean, just look at Punisher and Batman, they just cannot be fucking stopped. Their tragedies broke some kind of inhibitor in them, and that allows them to push themselves further than any normal human should be able to go.
DD is ALL about him dealing with his suffering. A dead father, his blindness... Also, every goddamn time you see him facing a big villain you already know that he will be kicked hard to death and then (and just THEN) he's gonna find the force to struggle till the victory.
If you just think about it this is something that is really easy to match with the a catholic vision of life. And. indeed, DD is THE catholic hero.
I like him, but this is his way of being a hero, not everybody's way.
It's also true that a lot of Marvel and DC heroes start their path of justice with some kind of trauma, like Batman, Iron Man, Spidey... But then, they just don't have this pain as a real costant in their stories... This is pretty like a DD thing.
>>79043512 Why are you blaming MAX LANDIS MAX LANDIS MAX LANDIS when he's the one who actually spoke up in defense of Superman in contrast to "sociopathic bullies" like Batman and Spider-Man and hated Man of Steel because of how callously Metropolis was wrecked?
>>79045031 Yeah, he really cares about Clark not causing property damage.
And I'm glad he makes Clark care about helping villains (unlike Spidey!) like shooting heatvision at the robber and Joker and leaving Slade Wilson to drown. What a Hero! 10/10! Marvel better watch out.
>>79045031 >"sociopathic bullies" like Batman and Spider-Man >Spider-Man Spider-Man does help his villains though. He helped Dr Conners with the Lizard. Begged Rhino to stay with his wife. Regularly tries to convince Black Catcto turn her life around. Helped The Prowler. And Even taught a X-Men class that even villains need saving.
>>79047116 American superheroes whine and monologue for book after book and arc after arc about whatever forced drama their hack writers force on them. Kamen Riders get the shit beaten out of them and sometimes literally crawl back from the wreckage to fight again with nothing but resolve and hard work knowing they're going to have to deal with this for the rest of their life and there will be no peace for them tomorrow. And unlike your capeshit by and large except on a few occasions there's no magic reset button that resurrects their dead friends and loved ones or give them back what they've lost.
>>79044088 Why stop at toku, anime and manga does it better too. Kenshiro alone puts the entirety of /co/ superheroes to shame for the sheer fact that in his case right makes might and his good spirit and suffering living in a horrible world is what powers him.
>Has spent the past 10K years in constant suffering and near-madness holding the twitching anus of hell closed with every ounce of willpower left in his decaying corpse to preserve an empire that has fallen far from what he wanted simply because for all our egregious faults he still loves mankind
See if your circus strongmen superheroes prancing around in pajamas beating up muggers know the real meaning of sacrifice and suffering for the common good.
>>79048123 >You're not a fan of Superman if you want Superman to be a fun inspiration character and not a gritty dudebro that burns people's arms off Because when true superman fans think of superman, they think of all the horrific acts he commits! :^D
It's not the pain and suffering that makes a hero, but that person's ability to endure it and still grasp victory that makes a hero. At least, isn't that what the classic definition of a hero is, according to fellas like Joseph Campbell?
>>79046577 >>79046577 jesus this is like the ninth thread i've either seen you or someone with the exact same opinion and shitposting style as you. American Alien isn't a story about Superman being Superman. It's a story about Clark before he's Superman. He's a kid with unlimited power, totally unprepared for these situations he finds himself in. It's about him making mistakes, learning from them, and GROWING UP, eventually becoming Superman.
What would be a better story? Clark doing chores around the farm, eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with the crust cut off? Maybe he could go to school with Lex Luthor, and no matter how nice Clark was to him Lex could be MEAN, because he is a BAD GUY. But Clark just sighs and keeps trying, because he's just such a GOOD GUY.
They've told that story for close to a century. You want a perfect, flawless god in bright red underpants, there's an abundance of books and comics you can read and keep on your bookshelf. "But oh, if he makes mistakes or has flaws he's not a role model! Think of the children!" If anything, it makes him a BETTER role model, because like the rest of us, Superman has to live with his choices, mistakes, and consequences. He doesn't let accidents and missteps define him, he defines himself by deciding that come what may, he's never going to give up, and he's always going to do the right thing.
But hey, it's ok. It's perfectly fine to like stories about the SUPER in Superman. American Alien is a story about the MAN in Superman. It doesn't have to be your cup of tea, but don't try and peddle this glorification of violence and 'dude-bro'ness narrative you've got going.
>in b4 you try and cite Clark burning that guys arms off as an example of always doing the right thing and completely miss the point about making mistakes >in b4 someone gets excited that I typed "MAN in Superman" and floods the thread with hot BrucexClark slashpics.
>>79051144 Superman doesn't need to burn people's arms off or lose his parents to make him interesting. And putting gore and violence doesn't make it """""deep"""" and """""mature""""". Him making horrific acts like burning people's arms off or leaving Slade Wilson to drown or wrecking walls isn't what makes him a good character. Making "mistakes" isn't what makes Superman interesting. What makes him great is that he's a Super nice guy that doesn't do stuff that wolverine and punisher does. This goes for Clark Kent too because Clark and Superman are one in the same. Superman is based off Clark's kindness. Clark is suppose to be a good kid who does the right thing and believes and loves everyone (that's what makes Superman who he is) >What would be a better story? Clark doing chores around the farm, eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich with the crust cut off? Maybe he could go to school with Lex Luthor, and no matter how nice Clark was to him Lex could be MEAN, because he is a BAD GUY. But Clark just sighs and keeps trying, because he's just such a GOOD GUY. Sounds better than Ameican Alien >He doesn't let accidents and missteps define him, he defines himself by deciding that come what may, he's never going to give up, and he's always going to do the right thing. So Clark should never take responsibility for his actions? Okay! And not every "MAN" is a cynical asshole or horny fratboy like Max Landis's Clark or Geoff Johns Billy Batson. Some people are actually good people. Just because people like you would use superpowers to hurt people, doesn't mean EVERYONE would. Also >IT'S OKAY CLAK IS A TERRIBLE PERSON! IT'S FIRST DAY! Typical MoS excuse
>>79042382 I think that people empathize with heroes based on loss and suffering. It is harder to understand a hero that is genuinely nice and acting as a good samaritan, but something about that speaks to us on a subconscious feels level. Its why we tend to like Batman more, but things like Superman's "Dreams life us up" speech hit us harder.
We empathize with Batman's loss and view of the world, but we want to live in a world with Superman and Captain America in it because that means there are people who would do good for no other reason than they have the power to do it.
Heroism is a matter of how people deal with what life throws at them in general. If you don't let fear stop you, that can be heroic. If don't let self doubt or setbacks or impossible odds stop you, that can be heroic as well. And of course if you don't let pain and suffering stop you, that can definitely be heroic.
But as Daredevil said, it's insulting to suggest that only pain and suffering can motivate heroism.
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