I thought everything King did was great, the other writers were really hit or miss, which hurt the overall story but King really stuck the landing wit the prestige he set up and go a good handle all the characters at play, which was a huge cast.
>>79033621 I would have preferred if it was a limited series with King writing the whole thing or at least writing the entire plot and having an additional writer work on the scripts with a consistent art team.
>>79034128 Meanth last two as highlights. Great Dick story, great Damien story, great Duke story. Gordon and Jason were smaller roles, but fine characterization. Only one left in the dust was, as always, Tim. Seriously. Wally got retconed by Nu52, but Tim didn't?
No tension. I mean, for fucks sake you have untrained kids fight and defeat ''elite'' Talons. Remember how big of a deal these guys were back in Court of Owls, and Night of the Owls? Now they're just another type of faceless mooks.
>>79033593 Because it was literally just this for six issues >I am Robin >I too am also Robin >No I am Robin >No you are Gray Son >Yes my name is Grayson, but I am also Robin but not really? >I am more Robin than you are Robin >I am not Robin >Yes you are Robin >Okay I am also Robin >Hoot hoot I'm actually an owl
>>79033593 I thought King did a lot of good, but there ending issue did have some plot issues. Like how did the We are robin kids be able to defeat all of those Talons, when Bruce had trouble with just 1?
>>79042725 You can tell because Grayson #14 ended in a cliffhanger and the Robin War tie-in had nothing to do with that plotline. In #16 they'll go back to the unresolved cliffhanger and King said the Court of Owls stuff will not be adressed at first.
Wish they didn't include Grayson in the event and let King/Seeley include the CoW plotline more naturally over the course of the series.
>>79033593 I liked it. Things were introduced for Grayson and WAR to play with and the big elephant in the room in Damian's book (Bruce's memory loss) was finally acknowledged so that the book can move forward. Pacing was sloppy though. More stuff should've happened in the non-King issues. Too much felt crammed into Robin War #2 while barely anything happened in R:SOB. Also should've cut Tim and Jason out entirely for more relevant pages since there's clearly no pleasing those fans.
>>79043493 Most Jason and Tim fans were actually happy with how they were written outside of the curbstomping in Robin War #2. In most forums, people are clamoring for a Tom King-written Red Robin/Red Hood team-up.
Yeah. I'm only unhappy with the fact that now Jason specializes in pretty much nothing now. He's no longer the angry/black sheep Robin. He used to be the second best fighter, but between this and the B&RE issue where Tim takes over the fight because Jason is apparently useless without bullets, he's apparently now the WORST fighter of the family.
His only use anymore is basically to be a watered-down Damian to Tim's watered-down Bruce.
>>79043533 I've seen Tim and Jason fans raging about how little they had to do with the event and, of course, the Robin power level hierarchy. It seems to me that the page time and the lack of page time they had in the event upsetted fans. If they're going to be upset either way and since the focus of the event was clearly supposed to be Dick, Duke, and Damian, they might as well have cut Jason and Tim out entirely for a tighter story.
>>79043794 Jason being better dead than alive is not a meme, but the truth. His only post-resurrection story worth being told was UTRH, after that he had no purpose. Morrison's idea to make Red Hood a Dickbats enemy was interesting, but ultimately doomed to fail since Jason wasn't, isn't and never will be a good character
Have power rankings within the Batfam ever made sense, though? I mean, I know Jason was supposed to be this great fighter (according to RHATO, which I don't read), but Damian has also consistently been portrayed as being able to kick most anybody's ass (beats droves of ninjas on the regular). And now, you have Cass, who ALSO is supposed to be able to beat pretty much anyone. And then there's Dick, who's supposed to excellent. So...between all these hyped-up super fighters, is there any logic to who's beating who? I doubt it.
>>79043794 To make up for the special snowflake he is in Lobdell's book, I guess. Honestly, it looks like none of the writers know what to do with him the way he is right now or particularly like him. It'll change if he gets a writer that actually develops him and makes him interesting.
Yeah, that's why I brought it up. It's annoying, because people seem to confuse "competent" with "BEST FIGHTER" all the time. It should be obvious that all of these characters will be THE BEST in their own title, and a little weaker in others. There is no consistency to it, and it doesn't freaking matter that much. I'm a Bat fan, but I don't need every single one of them to be the biggest curb stomper of all. There are other qualities that matter, for fuck's sake. Like being in engaging stories and shit.
>>79044015 >but ultimately doomed to fail since Jason wasn't, isn't and never will be a good character
It was ultimately doomed because Morrison had no idea why people liked the character, he changed the character completely in order to fit in with his views on superheroes and villains, and then later used him in a way that screamed, "I have unresolved issues with my father."
>>79044321 >All Jason had going for him was "sexy misunderstood bad boy".
He was a direct counterpoint to Batman's mission. Crime can't be beaten, it can be controlled and lethal force is an acceptable method. It was Morrison who reduced him down to "sexy, misunderstood bad boy," so he could deconstruct him. B&R Red Hood isn't a deconstruction of UtRH Red Hood, he's a poorly constructed strawman. Morrison's Jason is one of those I'M SILLY type characters, even down to being ugly. I'm surprised he didn't give Jason stink lines.
>>79044911 Well the only reason why Jason has so many fangirls is the "sexy misunderstood bad boy" thing, even before. Part of UTRH was him having daddy issues, which is something fangirls go crazy over.
I think UTRH is Jason's best story arc as Red Hood, but I also like Morrison's take. Like someone has said, it was a deconstruction and it worked for me. He seemed like a genuinely tormented character, and his connection with Scarlet was pretty genuine as well, I wouldn't call it silly.
>>79044808 >He was a direct counterpoint to Batman's mission. Crime can't be beaten, it can be controlled and lethal force is an acceptable method. That was still his pov in Morrison's story, he just added brand management to it.
Oh come on. Jason and Tim fans have every right to be upset. If it was dick who got one shoted by damian, you guys would have spent the whole week bitching and crying about it. Heck, you guys would actually declare a war on king. So stop being such a bunch of hypocrites. It is kind of hurt to watch.
And the whole thing about Jason. Well, I actually think that Jason has the best origin and the most potential out of all robins. DC are just simply a bunch of idiots who don't know how to handle him. DCCU is his only hope left.
>>79044950 Jason's daddy issues are still a big part of his character, but people tend to forget he also has suicidal tendencies,an inferiority complex towards Dick, the oedipic relationship with Talia and crowbar ptsd. A one shot of Jason doing psychotherapy would be hilarious
>>79044212 His motivation in the movie boiled down to "I have unresolved issues with my father". That was the point, that he was upset at Batman for not killing the Joker, because "It took me away from you!"
I think it was doomed to fail because Jason has more marketable potential as another Batfamily member. The problem is they have him with one of the shittiest writers there is. He has a lot of potential to be fun. The reboot cleared him of a lot of "we don't know what to do" baggage and he kind of has a good basic direction now being a heroes for hire rip off but its all wasted. I loved when King and Valentine wrote him too. Its a shame.
Also I like Lobdell's Gotham City Sirens issue. How shit is my taste /co/?
Personally, in a perfect world, Cass would be the most skilled with Damian dragging just a bit behind her, Jason would be physically the strongest but with zero finesse, Tim and Babs would be all brains and reflexes but kind of crappy in a real fight, and Dick would be the balanced character. They sort of try this when they all team up but it never feels consistent.
>>79050916 Yeah, there's definitely potential for that sort of character-driven action/comedy, but it needs a creative team with some flair and competence. It would also need to distance itself from UtRH, instead of the constant "wink wink nod nod" approach that Lobdell has taken in lieu of establishing a proper backstory.
Midnighter is basically the sort of book that Red Hood/Arsenal wishes it could be. It has unapologetic amounts of violence, cheesy one-liners that seem appropriate, and a strong character arc.
>everone suddenly hates the other robins so much they justify Damian's mary sue status >anyone who thinks Damian should have a proper place in the batfam with his strenghts and weaknesses and no dragon ball z sudden power-ups is either a "jasonfag" or a "lobdellfag"
>>79034367 >guns and helmet >doesn't shoot any talons >gets knocked out through the helmet, in mud? Also does he use a knife anymore? If you want to paint Damian as an asshole, just have him kick Jason in the nuts or something. This simply makes no sense.
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