I mean, in the Justice League cartoon they mingled inside a high-tech satellite with a cannon pointed straight at the planet Earth and plotted how to better course the world's affair. Their main antagonists were the USA's government.
I'm not saying that the company is plotting to take the country, just that they play with the idea of power and world domination a lot. You constantly has the League being called on it or struggling with it.
Not really, Bruce wayne is a democrat and Batman is Anarkofascist (at least miller's version). Superman is a New Deal Democrat but in general vote conservative as a good farm boy or hank hill.
Diana and Arthur are Monarquists Hal is republican Wally comes from a republican family but is not conservative on social stuff Barry was conservative too Ollie is plain socialist-social democrat Hawkman is a hardcore republican Dick Grayson and almost all the batfamily not named Damian are pretty left leaning Cyborg is black MM is a communist Cap atom is literally a militaristic conservative Lois is republican.
Etc. DC is not really Fascist, but Fascism is a theme, and is always there. Meanwhile at marvel is never adressed, superheroes and shield can openly work on behalf of a interventionalist evil countrylike murrika and yet everyone is fine with that.
>>79010380 This might be bait, but in real life I know there are some superhero detractors who dismiss all the superheroes (not only DC) as fascist fantasies. In Latin American countries there are who several viewers who dismiss superhero characters in general as North American propaganda.
What a crock of shit. Simply by EXISTING Superman has irreparably altered the course of human history. With every person he saves or villain he defeats, he changes the world.
What is really being said here is that Superman is not allowed to change the setting of the comics he's in in any way that actually matters. Unless it's some Elseworlds shit where things can be experimented with, the world must always be a reflection of our own. It's why heroes like Mister Fantastic and other super scientists like him don't cure every disease known to man or revolutionize prosthetics in such a way that every single civilian can get access to them. It's why The Punisher can kill more criminals than the United States' total population, but crime never goes away or even slows down. The world cannot ever actually get any better. The problems we have in our own world will continue to exist in comics so that writers can write stories about them.
And I wouldn't mind this at all, if they didn't try to have characters rationalize it in such a ridiculous fashion.
>>79010980 The job of a superhero is "if someone's committing a crime, I will interrupt it, if they've already committed it and are outrunning the cops, I will tie them up so the cops can get them, and if an alien force that's too strong for the army to fight invades the Earth, I will shoo them away"
There was a Marvel/DC crossover event (written by Kurt Busiek, drawn by Geroge Perez) where Avengers and Justice League characters visited each others' worlds.
When DC characters visited Marvel's world, they were appalled at how much more chaotic and messy the state of their world was in, despite there being so many costumed vigilantes running around.
When Marvel characters were in DC's world, they noted how much cleaner and safer it was, and how much more receptive civilians were to costumed heroes, but regarded their hero worship as creepy and almost fascistic.
>>79011039 Because it's acting outside of the law's boundaries (vigilantism in this case), which nowadays it's considered fascism. Then again, going by this guy >>79010614 if you rebel against an unjust leader you're still a fascist. Basically, if you do something against the law of a (proclaimed) liberal country you're a fascist.
>>79011091 >DC Heroes standing in the air >Marvel heroes looking up >DC heroes are statuesquely poised, like Greek Gods >Marvel Heroes look like a bunch of barbarians (I mean thor is literally a barbarian god)
>>79011011 >Are you implying liberalism and fascism are on the same side?
You don't know what liberalism is. PINOCHET was a FASCIST LIBERAL dictator. On a political spectrum h was between Tatcher and Reagan. Fascism is neither left wing or right wing, and Being conservative is not a Right or a left wing thing, You dumb americans love to use big words that end up losing all meaning since your Civic education is shit.
>>79011240 comics produced in america should be judged on american terms imo We use a lot of political verbage wrong but that's mostly because the media is run by the left and forcing every medium that way
>>79010947 While you aren't wrong about the static world, I think you're missing Clark's point. You can stop individual criminals with force; you can even save the world from intergalactic threats. But you can't punch your way to a better society. A society built on force can never be anything but tyranny.
That's the core of Superman's character: for all his power, he can only treat the symptoms of disaster, not the disease, because the problems arise from human nature. To change that, he must use not his power, but his goodness, to try and inspire the rest of mankind to change.
>>79011240 Pinochet is only loosely called as a fascist, like Franco and Salazar. He was just another cold war tin pot despot. People use the word fascist too loosely nowadays completely ignoring Mussolini's philosophy behind it. Fascism is a very well defined system.
>>79011358 >Are you implying DC's earth isnt better? I dunno, I don't know that much about it, but I was implying that, going by that story, DC's earth clearly was. But ooOOOOOoohh, look at that pseudo-religion and pseudo-fascism, aren't you scaaaAAAAAaared?
>>79010626 Cap said they were fascists because there was evidence everywhere that the JLA were beloved and venerated by the populace.
Citizens of Marvel's Earth are literally so shitty to their heroes that even a smart guy like Cap cannot conceive of people similar to himself and his team being anything but distrusted and even reviled by the people they serve. In his mind, the people of DC's Earth behaving to the contrary is evidence of enslavement.
So yeah, Cap was wrong, and kind of an idiot. But that's crossovers for you.
>>79011039 It's not facsism but it's based in the similar theme, that is conventional society/people are incapable of dealing with issues so a superior individual solves these issues with overwhelming force.
It's not a new phenomena, the blatant correlations have been pointed out mostly unbroken as long as they existed.
In fact, the fall of the Golden Age was motivated not by the red scarw as in popular fiction, but the superheroes falling out of favor post ww2.(The comics code.actually helped REVIVE superhero comics by puring the Ec style crime and horror comics that had sprung up in the interegnum)
Superheroes are fascist in the same way disco is gay. Not literally, but the substance of the artform holds a deep relation to the culture in question.
Superheroes, the New Deal, Italy,Japan and Germany were all just manifestations of a wider cultural need. It was an age were we took a godless world and invented gods of our own.
Through pen, bullet and balot we cast imposing figures of ultimate power, who through force of will, strength and iconography solved the issues of the world.
The superman takes a great many forms. At one extreme we find Superman, the superman of the American "comics," a demi-god with unlimited powers. Superman flies through the air by spreading his arms, holds up collapsing bridges, and kills with a look or with cosmic rays emanating from his fingers-tips, etc.
The strong attraction of the superman myth is probably the most marked feature of the modern children's press. In all probability, this subject of the undefeated, superhuman, eternal, etc. hero satisfies a deep-seated popular instinct. Supermen are to be found in all traditional folktales, from the medieval verse-chronicles to Oriental legends. Moreover, the superman has always had a particular appeal for those whose own lives lack the unexpected, the violent or the exciting. There is some truth in the argument that the "superman" formula acts as a safety valve, although its value for that purpose, both on the screen and in the press, has on occasion been deliberately exaggerated.
The superman is typified by his stature and the disproportion between his head and other limbs. He is always tall and slender (if he is a sociable superman) or stocky (if he is the demi-god type of superman), and must dominate other men physically.
Not only does the superman not die; he never grows old, and is always at the height of his powers. He will live forever between the ages of 20 and 30, subject to no sickness and no wrinkles, but from time to time acquiring some "distinguished" wounds.
This impression of the superman's immortality — which perhaps appeals to children on account of their own confused concept of time — is particularly marked when the superman takes the form of an adolescent prodigy
>>79011858 Being above human contingencies, the superman is also free of material difficulties. Not only do no money problems afflict the hero, who does not apparently have to provide for his own needs, but motor cars, buildings, telephones, planes, etc. are used without it being thought necessary to state who owns or maintains them. For the average reader, living in relatively poor circumstances, Superman's life soon becomes as intoxicating as the cinema, though no doubt it is less all absorbing. The superman's respectful attitude to government, and his submission to law and justice, are not always merely passive. Sometimes he will summarily execute a few villains or enemies. Where it is a question of destroying an enemy fleet or of overthrowing the "chief traitor", the superman usually fails to give the appropriate authorities advance notice of his intentions. This does not constitute flagrant violation of the law, since such punitive operations are always carried out for a good purpose.
Superheroes are essentially immortal physically and sexually perfect demi gods who solve problems with extreme superlegal violence
"Fascism" wouldn't be the technical term given most are non state actors, but it comes from a common source.
>>79011827 Green Arrow and Iron Man don't have powers, neither does Shang Chi Richard Dragon, Bronze Tiger ,Huntress, the Question or Robin
The guy regularly saves an entire major city almost singlehandedly, and has helped save the world and even the fucking universe on multiple occasions. I think he's living proof that powers don't make the super.
>>79012386 James Bond has never been anywhere near that level of capability, even at his most ridiculous.
I always figured that superheroes were defined as people with capabilities beyond those of normal people, sometimes (but not necessarily) FAR beyond, who used those abilities for the greater good in a capacity that exceeds the norm. Batman qualifies.
And anon, condescenion doesn't make you sound smarter. It just makes you look like a dick.
>>79012549 >James Bond has never been anywhere near that level of capability, even at his most ridiculous.
Have you seen ANY of the Brosnan movies?
>>79012549 >I always figured that superheroes were defined as people with capabilities beyond those of normal people, sometimes (but not necessarily) FAR beyond, who used those abilities for the greater good in a capacity that exceeds the norm. Batman qualifies.
Which would include James Bond. And Hercules. And Tarzan. And many other more.
It's just a ridicolous definition because it's too broad. You're better off saying Batman is a superhero because his comics say so.
> It just makes you look like a dick.
Oh sorry I forgot where I was, let me get out my old frilly gown to properly be in your presence.
>>79011640 And you're completely glossing over the fact that both Captain America and Superman were acting out of character during the first half of this crossover because of the dimensional travel messing up their minds somehow.
>>79012059 Pre-Civil War the Avengers were an unregulated PMC run by an arms dealer with a mission of vigilante actions, foreign military intervention, and meddling in the affairs of alien politics. Post-Civil War the Avengers were the sanctioned superhuman strike force of a US intelligence agency.
>>79010314 fascism is when a small group of people push what they want over what the majority wants the majority wants peace and for crime to not happen, so even if a small group of people work together to end crime, that's not fascism. only when the majority are against them do they become fascists (or sorta martyrs in the case of x-men)
>>79010396 bit hodgepodge but I like it. change the right arm to a large pauldron and a heavy gauntlet (what she has now would prevent her elbow moving) and fix the weird mismatched torso armor and we've got something here.
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