Technically, anime is probably better.
However in terms of execution, it's picked up a lot of really really bad habits - particularly in shounen. So much of it is formulaic, predictable, bland and 'safe'.
it depends. low budget US animation is about 1000x better than low budget anime,
in the US it is bare minimum that you animate on twos or ones, never threes or fours like you see in Japan, in the US you have to lip sync even if it's bad it was matched up to existing audio, in Japan you just flap the mouth and let them figure out dialog later. even low budget animation in the US will sometimes use moving holds, anticipation, and dramatic well silhouetted poses. I've never seen that happen in low budget anime.
but when your talking about the high budget stuff it's more opinion based, because on high budget stuff you see very similar use of all the elements of animation and there are pretty big stylistic differences which is easy to confuse with technical elements, most people aren't going to notice how well weighted characters are, they are more likely to just look at modern appeal vs dated appeal.
In terms of animation, sure, anime looks better. But that's it most of the time. A whole lot of style with the nothing really good to go along with it. There's just as many anime masterpieces as there are for the West.
Trying to put one over the other is stupid.
Also, inb4 "anime is in the stars while the west is in the sand" or whatever bs quote it was.
Something animated on 2's or 1's isn't better than 3's and 4's, that how Japan does it. It's their style and way of life. You're looking too much at the Illusion of Life method while the Japanese may exactly adhere to that but that's okay.
It's like comparing hamburgers and sushi, both are good but different. Different is good.
The big difference is that low budget anime and low budget cartoons are on very different levels of cost. Anime can be on a shoestring budget, but even cheap cartoons are a good level above that.
Also, there's a lot more anime every season then there is even cartoons in a year. That leads to a huge range of quality. There's good and bad and everything in the middle. It's just the business model that they chose.
I'd be anxious to put most of Kon's stuff in the same kind of "raw animation" as Fantasia or Pinocchio, but he certainly was cut short with his death.
>but he certainly was cut short with his death.
His death is such a big loss for animation.
If you haven't seen this:
At least, there's still Mamoru Hosoda.
Did you not read the OP image?
Besides, cherry picking is silly anyway. This type of thinking just boxes people in and makes them less accepting of different styles. Sure the classic Disney style is wonderful, but that doesn't mean it's the only way to go. Something like FLCL or Jin-Roh is just as great to me animation wise.
Wolf Children is great. Fuck the son though, ungrateful little faggot.
This. There's such a weird standard of quality in anime, or rather, lack thereof. Not only do the lips not sync to the dialogue, but often times they don't event start running their mouth animation cycles at the correct times. Characters are constantly moving their mouths with no sound coming out. It looks lazy as fuck.
101 Dalmations is fucking awesome. It was my favorite Disney movie as a kid, but I haven't seen it in like, 20 years for some reason. Time for a torrent, I think.
>Not only do the lips not sync to the dialogue, but often times they don't event start running their mouth animation cycles at the correct times. Characters are constantly moving their mouths with no sound coming out. It looks lazy as fuck.
What the fuck kind of anime are you watching?
>"Well I don't notice it, so it isn't true"
Open your eyes. I don't mean that characters go on flapping their lips for an entire scene with no dialogue, but you get the distinct idea that the animators just generally timed the line of dialogue and ran an arbitrary "open-closed-open-closed" lip flap sequence for roughly the amount of time needed. It doesn't always match up. Often, if the VA has a slight pause or a breath in the line, the lips will just keep on going right through it.
Does anime even adhere to the voice before animation process? Their voice acting isn't very subtle or intelligent. I don't imagine that it's very important at all for the human element to come first. It wouldn't surprise me if the animation sweatshops churned out episodes first and then the VAs came in to shoehorn their dialogue in as best they could.
Not that they do that good of a job in the first place. Most dubs match the lip flaps better than the original
Hes confusing animation quality with final product quality, animation is hit or miss when comparing east and west.
Writing quality tends to heavily favor the east though, the way they monetize anime allows for better writing to show through.
There are exceptions to every rule, but it cant be denied running shows perpetually until ratings drop can really effect quality, look at the AT threads on /co/ these days for a recent example.
>Most dubs match the lip flaps better than the original
>I-It can't be helped
>Don't say such things!
>Is this the true power of ________!?
I guess I should have said the writing wasn't subtle or intelligent. The voice acting may be good, I don't know. But the dialogue itself is so superficial. Characters are never nuanced, they never speak emotions, they only flat out state things, often in an awkward and stilted manner. Across the board, from the cheapest cookie-cutter slice of life show, to the supposed "masterpieces", any sort of character relation or development is done through the same tired archetypes, and even the same regurgitated phrases. It's fine if you can ignore it, because the anime that are good or interesting enough to warrant watching are usually enough of a spectacle that they entertain without actually having any character depth.
>Writing quality tends to heavily favor the east though, the way they monetize anime allows for better writing to show through.
This is so backwards. Writing quality from the east is horrific. It's so wooden and rigid. It's like the culture's strict adherence to tradition and archetypes makes the writers afraid to try something new. Even if the concepts of a show sound inventive on paper, they all get approached and executed in the same tired way. It's awful.
>"I can't contribute any evidence to prove otherwise, so I'm just gonna whip a reaction image out of my bottomless folder"
Dubs, especially English dubs, often spend a lot of effort making their spoken dialogue match the lip flaps, which is why so much of it comes out awkward. Part of why, anyway. The other reason is that dubbers never re-write dialogue to sound better anymore, which was more common in older anime dubs. They do a literal translation, which sounds like garbage.
>The other reason is that dubbers never re-write dialogue to sound better anymore, which was more common in older anime dubs. They do a literal translation, which sounds like garbage.
you're spouting a lot of bullshit, but this is true for a lot of anime. Honestly that's more of just way less budgets for bringing anime over now that we can torrent and stream with subs so much easier
It's because dubbing in Japan is not donethe same. In Occident, when you dub a scene there a paper rolling under the picture with marks indicating when each of the characters starts and finishes to talk. In Japan, they kind of go with the flow, no marks, nothing, so it's a lot less precise.
>This is so backwards. Writing quality from the east is horrific.
No way the west writing is often just shit tier extended toy commercials and thats far more often than the east.
Manga tends to break tradition far more than its western equivalent, when is the last time you seen something actually different come from Dc/Marvel compared to WSJ or any of its equivalents?
Youd have to start looking at 2000ad or Darkhorse to even begin to get the quality the MAINSTREAM anime and manga producers put out.
I dont think he ever said that. This seems wrong. Considering Richard Willaim's animation was all about smooth motion, and gesture based expression. most anime is the opposite of that.
Okay, you either haven't watch a lot of anime, are partial to japanese stereotypes but not to occidental ones, or watched mostly bad one.
The way they speak their emotions is a cultural thing. For a long time, I thought japanese va were always exagerating until I heard a group of teenage japanese girls yell in the subway (I don't live in Japan). So no, va are not always going too far.
Do you think Evangelion's characters were a standard 20 years ago? You really think things never change in anime?
Have you seen Shin Sekai yori more recently?
When Anime produces a show as well designed, animated, Voice acted and well written as Steven Universe, then you can say the East has caught up.
As it is now, Anime really doesnt have a leg to stand on, and Steven Universe is the Pinnacle of animation, that all other works needs to measure up against
Show me a scene in anime that can surpass this one, in tone, animation, design, voice acting, action, camera work.
you will not find anything that comes close to equaling it.
>Steven Universe is the Pinnacle of animation
I know its bait but I'm going to bite
I'm a fan of SU and I'm just going to laugh at you
This thread is cringe. It's so sad to see inept people on /co/ or which is to say everyone on /co/ look at what the worst anime has to offer and think it's the standard all in an attempt ignore the west's mediocrity. Why can't /co/ admit that when it comes to the west, animation is a stagnated medium?
I will admit that anime and manga usually prefers quantity over quality but sadly America has neither.
It's like you watched Naruto and think all and every single anime is like that. You're a faggot and one of the many problems with what's wrong in /co/. And before you say shit like being a weeb or defending Japan or somehsit. I'm indifferent to anime and I have been a /co/mrade for six years but even I can see how the west treats art and animation like trash.
Watch more anime and read some decent manga, bro before you type up stupid shit.
come on man your making us SU fans worse then we already are
I think with Japanese animation, animators either go all out (Akira, Little Witch Academia, etc) or just appeal to Moe-fans (Lucky Star, Lucky Star, Lucky Star.)
However, I feel like with American animation, you go with what sells, which is flash animated 'deep' appeal to nostalgia shows, or 3d animation, which isn't AS impressive as old drawn animation, but still neat and pretty..
>i'm a casual who's only seen three anime at most
Animating on 3s and 4s means half as many drawings, which means jerkier animations. Not to mention all the panning stills that they abuse in cheap anime to try and make audiences forget that nothing has actually moved for several seconds.
At least /v/ is honest with their awfulness and they can be pretty fun at times if you know where to look. /co/ is such a damn drag. It's like this place is full of girls and normies.
>When Anime produces a show as well designed, animated, Voice acted and well written as Steven Universe, then you can say the East has caught up.
Congratulations, anon. You've managed to fall into circular logic in one single argument.
No one is gonna fall for it.
Animated entirely by hand.
What's so good about these replies is
1. Nobody realises that Richard Williams never said this, it's all fake subtitles.
2. OP or whoever made that image must be a big fan of animation to know to mention Inoue, Okiura et al because atypical to 'anime' style, those animators create beautiful movement using many frames, so everyone arguing anime 'looks better but doesn't move better' has Inoue to answer to.
OP who are you you big sakuga nerd
I'm going to generalize the hell out of both mediums that are biased from my own experiences from the two and I don't even watch anime that much so I'm sure I'm going to get many replies, probably valid, disputing me and proving that I'm a dumbass but whatever:
French animation was here.
Ya'll a bunch of bustas.
a bunch of different Disney animation shorts that varies art styles, directors and genres, some are good and others are completely meh. the jap equivalent to Fantasia is Genius party
Stealth weeaboo thread is exactly that.
I grew out of watching Anime because of everything I had to complain about "local" animation was more pronounced in Anime. The whole commercial for toys/games is practically 80% of the anime/manga that gets sent this way, and the left-overs are all rehashed cultural situation based fluff. I'm cool with watching a movie that is interesting or is aesthetically pleasing (mostly Studio Gib. stuff, but even that can get moony and stupid looking). I get that there are cultural shorthands that western types will not naturally understand because that's just normal (or normal for whatever place it's from anyhow).
Ultimately, I am happier watching "western" style cartoons though because I don't need a history lesson to understand the context of why X-person is tapping on their shoulder and wriggling their eyebrow. I'm rewarded for watching in a more useful way than "What is the story of the three clay pots, and what fucking meaning does it impart onto the plot? WHY DO I NEED TO KNOW THIS? Why did they spend 17 minutes explaining how this guy is such the greatest fighter ever and how he used the dull side of his blade so as not to draw a single drop of blood, you know how I can tell someone is a good fighter? When they kick all the ass."
they are deep, you just don't understand!
as if western cartoon are any better. the bulk of western animation is for kids and very rarely does anything particularly ambitous come out.
Meanwhile there's some more interesting stuff coming out from some more auteur driven animation like pig related
>le maison de petits cubes
that looks really european though
kickheart is awesome also
when you've spent hours matching mouth flaps and shapes to dialog, then it really bugs the shit out of you. I liked anime a lot more before I animated anything.
also it brings in elements I think are terrible personally, a lot of odd drawn out dialog and a lot of horrific sighing and grunting for no reason. great voice acting is a huge factor in the quality of the final product.
> Hi I was born in 2003!
Good job ignoring Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Record of Lodoss War, Venus Wars, Demon City Shinjuku or any of about 40-ish titles that all surpassed those what 2-3 Disney movies from 70+ years ago.
Wonder what would be made if somehow the exact same situation of an anime studio was made in the US.
If by some weird chance, miracle, or wish from a genie there was a studio that made animation that was
>Focused on character design quality (albeit their own overly stylized version)
>was willing to throw a large budget at it
>had a legion of animators perfectly willing to do 60+ hour weeks while earning about $22K a year doing it
>They are only paid for 40 of those 60 hours
>barely pay the original author/creator anything at all in terms of royalties and they are happy just to see their work on screen
Could the US squeeze an Akira out of that situation?
Where is this from? Seems interesting.
Akira was high budget passion project, the goal was to push the boundary of how good animation could be, it's not the typical production mill stuff your describing. granted if the US was set up like that it would probably bring the technical quality down quite a bit.
I know that's a troll image, but the Japanese aren't as good character animators compared to their American counterparts. The former makes up for that by being better all-rounders though.
your confusing aesthetics with the technical aspects of animation. skipping lip sync for a well rendered painting you pan over isn't an option in the west. in fact several low budget cartoons did both in the US, Ren and Stimpy, early Spongebob, Cow and Chicken, Flapjack, granted mostly for gross out shots, but you can manage both in the west on a cable tv show budget, may be higher than a typical anime's budget I don't know, but it is what it is for comparisons sake.
I think we are all looking at this the very wrong way. Trying to compare two subjects for an objective conclusion is not possible. Let's look at this situation in two scenarios.
High budget animation comes to the same technical level between America and Japan. The focus differs greatly between the two. Japan likes fluidity and detail in production, ranging from the action-packed Akira to the delicate landscapes of Garden of Words. The emphasis on beauty might give the impression that it is technically better at face value. American animation is definitely geared more towards character acting. While Anime was brushing up on its backgrounds animators like Milt Kahl were studying things like the walking pattern of a cat very intensely. Or maybe the flight motions of a bird. Things to incorporate into acting. If the characters felt truly alive, you would get a better impression of those characters. How many minor characters in major anime movies can you name compared to western ones?
On the low budget, it's a different story. Similar to how the American entertainment market is riddled like cancer with rehashed-to-the-bone movies and a hopeful-yet-very-tired television shows, Japan has mass market anime. And like the US's movies and TV shows, they are mostly a commercial market looking for products guaranteed to sell. Thus, lots of rehashed concepts and shit. Even Japan's drawing styles for anime have mutated to the point of being called "inbred" from borrowing so much from other artists.
They are both the same. They have flaws and good traits. Whichever is better is based on your preference.
Anime has to deal with lower drawing counts; the norm tends to be around 3000 to 5000 frames for a 20 minute episode. Western cartoons average around 10000 in comparison. That amount is only reserved for special episodes in anime.
If you haven't watched this Film Board of Canada short, you have no right to post anything in this thread.
Funny how everyone on /co/ ignores shorts and art-house.
It's more like American and Japanese have different approaches to character animation. The American animator is concerned about how a motion is going to express the character's emotion and personality in a scene, while the Japanese animator thinks about how the motion can be portrayed.
Americans also have a very different style choice for characters.
Since the 50's American animators seem to like totally designing their own character to their own tastes. It's not totally a budget thing. They actually appreciate a completely individual appearance even if it means tube arms, no necks, and giant eyes.
Japanese try harder to conform to a set design with human shape. And it comes off as adhering to a natural design more than westerners.
I watch Japanese shorts though.
I couldn't give less of a shit about anime but Paprika is one of my favourite films. The star that burns twice as bright burns half as along and all that.
Threads like these are like watching people argue about which terminal cancer patient looks healthier
Animation is fucked and largely regarded as children's stuff when it can be so much more
This doesn't really hold water. The Japs could've totally gone for a more realistic aesthetic in their art. Just look at the clothing in that picture on the guy in the 'Japan' section, for example.
Their art followed the aesthetic of their kabuki theater, though, and was purposely stylized to suit their cultural needs.
Honestly I think Star Vs has the best animation right now
I'd probably put Super Jail second
Okay, I've watched a lot of the so-called anime "masterpieces" and I'd like to know if this is really the best anime has to offer.
Actually good. One of the few anime I'd admit to liking.
>Ghost in the Shell
>End of Evangelion
Yes. And if you think there's more than a couple of non-Japanese 2d animated movies that can compare in animation quality to any of those made these last 20 years I'd like to know them.
I think you just don't appreciate visuals enough. It's not for you. Understand that almost every film you listed has an appeal that can't be satisfied by 99% of western animation, even if you don't see it.
"Hi, remember when there were those scattered episodes of your favorite cartoon that had animation that was above and beyond? That was me."
American 2D animation never really went anywhere. People talk about Disney as being "full animation," but their animation and movies in general were very limited in scope. Disney's overinflated reputation is a result of ignorance, low standards and nationalism.
They really couldn't, and it's preposterous that you think they could. They don't have the skill, and these days there's hardly even any 2D animation being made in America. Anime's animation and character design style is also not something you can just do on a whim. Very few Western artists are able to draw a convincing looking anime (or manga) style character (I say "very few," but I've actually never seen it done).
It's a popular myth that animation quality is decided by the number of frames, but nothing could be further from the truth.
All this complaining about lack of lip syncing is just people grasping at straws, desperately trying to find some way of propping up American animation.
>There's just as many anime masterpieces as there are for the West.
>Trying to put one over the other is stupid.
Anime is objectively superior.
>Their voice acting isn't very subtle or intelligent.
Even if that were true, it would still be vastly more subtle and intelligent than American voice acting.
>But the dialogue itself is so superficial. Characters are never nuanced, they never speak emotions, they only flat out state things, often in an awkward and stilted manner.
>This is so backwards. Writing quality from the east is horrific.
Translation: "I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about."
>It's like the culture's strict adherence to tradition and archetypes makes the writers afraid to try something new.
Projection ahoy. It's American animation that does virtually nothing except children's entertainment and adult comedy. It's anime that does, roughly speaking, everything live action does.
>Funny how everyone on /co/ ignores shorts and art-house.
I don't understand, why would I do that? There are no waifus. There is no shipping. They've never aired on CN, Nick, or Disney? So why bother.
This makes no sense. You are comparing movies and OVAs with TV shows, and there is no "moe" animation style.
Sometimes people don't move. That actually happens in real life too.
American animation does barely anything except children's entertainment and adult comedy. How could its writing even begin to compete with anime?
This obsession with lip syncing really is curious.
So you watched a couple of shounen shows, and now you think you know all about anime and "grew out of it." Ok.
Frozen had a budget of $150 million. The Wind Rises had a budget of $30 million. American shows seem to typically have their episodes in production for 9 months, whereas in the same amount of time an entire 12 episode anime show could be produced from start to finish (not including pre-production). A voice actor on The Simpsons costs more per episode than the entire production budget of one anime episode. Animators in Japan are paid less (in the beginning of their careers) than they would be in America, but it's not like the Koreans who handle most American animation are paid much either. Anime also has much smaller budgets and tighter schedules. Animators have to be good and they have to be fast, and the production pipeline has to be efficient.
Arguing that anime only looks so good because of slave labor or some other kind of jewery is just rationalization. America never cared about animation as much as Japan, never took it as seriously, and never invested as much effort into it. Disney did put effort into their animation, but it was so narrow in its focus that it was only good for making Disney movies.
And you really underestimate the difficulty of realistic, high quality animation and filmmaking if you think you can just pay some people a lot of money and they'll somehow make it happen. Who exactly is going to animate it? The producers would probably just outsource it to Japan.
American character animation is very cartoonish and uses simple designs and camera work.
Disney's animation is like a toolbox that only contains a hammer. It's the greatest hammer ever made and you'll never pound nails better with any other hammer, but you'll also never do anything except pound nails. That is to say, Disney's animation is highly limited. It's great for cartoonishly exaggerated hyper-fluid character acting, singing, dancing and physical comedy, and that's about all it's great for. Anime animation is highly flexible and suited for any kind of storytelling, and can scale from amateur productions to TV shows to high end movies.
>Thus, lots of rehashed concepts and shit.
You are assuming that rehashing something necessarily makes it bad, and that making something original necessarily makes it good.
>Even Japan's drawing styles for anime have mutated to the point of being called "inbred" from borrowing so much from other artists.
Funny how nobody ever says anything like this about Western arts. That's because the unspoken logic here is that Japanese arts are only good when they borrow from Western arts.
>They are both the same.
They couldn't possibly be any more different.
Though I think you're weebing out a bit I agree. All the talented animators in the west just make slapstick for kids. I think a big factor is the west has moved away from 2D and moved to CGI, which they are the best at, despite being over-funded.
I don't even care about anime and know you're retarded.
There are 0 legitimate opportunities to work in animation outside of children's stuff in the west.
There are definitely more than 0 in the east.
You'll be more at home there, weeb.
99% of anime is trash, and 99% of that trash is porn created for pervert otaku.
There are probably as many masterpiece animes as there are western cartoons.
You're posting this on /co/, though, so you clearly were just looking for a (You).
>You'll be more at home there, weeb.
Why don't you complain to the OP rather than me? I didn't make this thread.
>99% of anime is trash, and 99% of that trash is porn created for pervert otaku.
TV anime can't even show nipples, and sex of any kind--even off-screen--is very rare. You're just spouting memes and buzzwords because you have no idea what you're talking about.
>There are probably as many masterpiece animes as there are western cartoons.
American animation is virtually nothing but children's entertainment and adult comedy, and very cheap-looking outside of feature films. Western animation at large has more serious works, but not many. There's also less animation made than in Japan.
Well, considering I never even specified TV anime, or even said TV in general, nice strawman.
You wanna try another argument? This all looks like anime porn to me.
Hentai is separate from the rest of anime, just like porn in America is separate from television and cinema. Hentai has also diminished significantly since the 80s - early 00s.
Here's what's actually airing this season:
You're completely dodging my point. I don't care what is airing on TV over in "muh glorious nippon". I don't even care what's airing over here.
>Hentai is separate from the rest of anime
Hentai is still anime. It's animation from Japan. Anime. There is still a shit ton of anime porn, and it's all trash.
>American character animation is very cartoonish and uses simple designs and camera work.
There's nothing wrong with a cartoony approach to animation, it's not inherently inferior or superior. Also, there are numerous skilled Japanese animators who have a cartoony approach to their work.
Western designs do tend to be simpler, but that allows for animators to put more effort into animating. Frankly, anime could stand to benefit from simpler designs too.
The camerawork in cartoons are simpler since they are supposed to be presented like a stage play, where the full figure of the actor is shown. This is why western animators are like actors, where they have to consider the personalities and emotions and convey it.
>You have never seen ghost in the shell, record of lodoss war, yadda yadda yadda
Yeah, seen 'em all. The animation and art is really nothing to cry home about. I'd rather watch something from France.
The irony of this is two fold. I've been watching Zeta Gundam and loving the shit out of it.
>No way the west writing is often just shit tier extended toy commercials and thats far more often than the east.
So exactly like Japan wherein all the fig buying otakus are basically paying for the show.
That's the dumbest retort I've ever heard. Congratulations anon, you've outed yourself as a retarded weeaboo.
Well it's less a retort as it is,
"western cartoons are toy commercials, as is anime, but, the toys for anime are actually good."
he's not wrong.
>implying I buy toys
I'm an adult anon. Nice assumption though.
Porn is still live action... except nobody's ever going to make the argument you're making and apply it to American television and cinema. Because it would be retarded.
Again, hentai is separate from the rest of anime just like porn is separate from other live action in America. It's completely irrelevant to TV and cinema anime. There was a time when it was a little more relevant, when OVAs were still popular, but even then it was a niche thing.
You are making a complete bullshit argument and have no idea what you're talking about.
Cartoon animation is fine when you're making a cartoon. It is not fine when you're trying to make cinematic animation and trying make works in many different genres about many different subject matters, which is what anime is about. Therefore cartoon animation is inherently inferior.
>Western designs do tend to be simpler, but that allows for animators to put more effort into animating.
But it's very limited animation. And it's not like the character designs are somehow separate from the animation; the more complex the designs are, the more difficult and impressive is to animate them, and the better the animation looks (all else being equal).
>The camerawork in cartoons are simpler since they are supposed to be presented like a stage play, where the full figure of the actor is shown. This is why western animators are like actors, where they have to consider the personalities and emotions and convey it.
Yes. This is one of the major limitations of American animation.
This. He would never look up to the inferior Japanese animators. The works of the latter lack the 12 principles of animation. Anime violates so many principles of animation—where’s the squash and stretch? The secondary action?
Holy shit, you must be autistic and retarded.
It's anime. I don't care if you don't like this idea, because you're wrong as all hell. Western cartoon porn is porn, and yet somehow it's still a cartoon. The same applies to Japanese cartoon porn. Not only that, but you're comparing anime porn to live action porn as if that helps your argument in any way.
Are you too dense to understand this, or just that autistic that you have to defend your "precious nippon".
Nice comeback. I'll just assume you're too ass flustered to even understand what I'm saying.
Anime is shit. It's all hentai and nobody gives a fuck about the stuff that isn't hentai or shonen otaku virgins.
If you fags want to discuss anime and how "superior" it is to western anime, there's a board specifically designed to contain your autism.
>this whole thread
Those are some top tier bait lads, keep em coming.
Figures are not toys, and the primary factors of commercial success for a show are sales of the source material and disc sales.
Is this the latest meme or something? Fujoshi anime is in the minority.
"It's live action." The exact same thing can be said about porn. Except, again, nobody is going to say that. Because it's completely retarded.
Hentai has nothing to do with TV and cinema anime, and was a minor thing even during the OVA heydays. You are grasping at straws in a desperate attempt to find something, anything, to attack anime with. And making yourself look like a complete moron in the process.
>nobody gives a fuck about the stuff that isn't hentai
Except it's completely the opposite, with nobody giving a fuck about the hentai. Even ecchi anime is of minor importance compared to everything else.
>or shonen otaku virgins.
What in the hell is this even supposed to mean? Did you just string together words at random?
>If you fags want to discuss anime and how "superior" it is to western anime, there's a board specifically designed to contain your autism.
Again, why aren't you complaining to OP? He's the one who made the thread.
The what now?
I'm not sure, I don't watch Gundam. Just stuff like Lupin III.
Pioneer/Geneon's dub of Red Jacket Lupin III was amazing. Shame it'll never be finished.
That's okay, at least we got TIE waifu out of it.
I thought he was from /m/.
There is less fujoshi anime, so the sales are more concentrated. Recent shows that have broken 10k+ sales include the Monogatari series, Love Live, Attack on Titan, Girls und Panzer, Fate/stay night, Sword Art Online, Cinderella Girls, Shirobako... there are tons.
You are just overreacting out of hysterical fear of fujoshi.
That doesn't look like anime, and wasn't even animated the same way (it was rotoscoped).
Figures are detailed sculptures designed to be displayed. They are much more expensive than toys, and are produced in limited quantities.
He browses /v/ too occasionally.
It looks nice but it just doesn't match up to most older Japanese animation projects like Robot Carnival or Memories. The shading was nice though.
rotoscoping is the new hotness in moonland m8
Yeah but the nips do it good.
Why? That was good practice for the animator.
How is that no studios are rights holders to their property? This is like some mo-town recording industry shit. "pay me a dollar for my songs, and a nickel for every performance? gee thank you so much for the honor of making you rich!"
The industry only exists because those slants have no self value and work themselves to death for someone else's profit. It also sounds like any animator would be better off flipping burgers than doing 'what they love'.
I wonder what would happen if some american VC came in and set up a studio to own its own rights and pay people a living fucking wage.
I liked him before Redline but honestly he's so underrated.
Well, there are probably various imaginative ways it could happen, undercut by the bio saying that that wasn't how it happened. It also doesn't say whether or not anyone in the hangar believes her story.
The Case of Hana and Alice has some nice rotoscoping.
I always thought they said Takeshi Cortez.
Fortunately it's rare. That scene was probably done for shits and giggles.
The studio is simply hired by a production committee to do the animation production. A studio can also be part of a committee, or start its own committee. It's a question of money. It's expensive to produce an anime. That's why production committees exist. The risk is distributed among the members.
>It also sounds like any animator would be better off flipping burgers than doing 'what they love'.
And yet there they are, animating. If they just wanted money, they wouldn't be animators.
>I wonder what would happen if some american VC came in and set up a studio to own its own rights and pay people a living fucking wage.
You should instead wonder why the American animation industry has gone down the toilet while the anime industry has thrived.
What is "forced animation"?
I'm not gonna make assumptions, but why in anime and manga and other media Japs get so excited when white American celebs go to Japan?
The Objective AEX tier list
20min from Nishi-ogikubo station
Robot on the Road
Bubu & Bubulina
The Bureau of Proto Society
Sex and Violence with Machspeed
I can Friday by Day
>Upper Middle Tier
Comedy Skit 1989
Tomorrow from There
Power Plant no.33
Three Fallen Witnesses
>Lower Middle Tier
The Diary of Ochibi
Hill Climb Girl
Tokio of the Moon's Shadow
Evangelion another impact
Memoirs of Amorous gentlemen
"thriving" doesn't exactly seem to be the state of affairs. The heads of studios are constantly pessimistic, and there are serious concerns about talent aging out because not enough people want to work like dogs.
Yeah and American 2D animation is stuck on television and in the age ghetto. Princess and the Frog proved to Disney and everyone else that, for whatever reason, you simply make more money on 3D features. So thats the way it is.
My only source of optimism for US animation is Netflix, they're experimenting with what adult swim confirmed years ago, that a market exists for adult oriented animation in the US. The quality of the animation is obviously not top notch, but it's proof that we aren't going to be constrained by what the big studios and cable push out for much longer.
There's always people moaning about how everything is doomed, yet more and more anime keeps coming out.
Just because American animation is entirely outsourced to (usually) Korea doesn't mean anime is too.
In-betweening means "filling it all in." As far as I can tell, in-betweening is most of the work that gets sent to Korea. However, even in-betweening is still done in Japan.
Why do some people struggle so much with the idea that outsourcing is not a binary state, and that only SOME of the work can be outsourced?
At least most aren't outsourcing to the Philippines.
He's wrong simply because anime as well-designed and well-animated as GitS or Cowboy Bebop is the minority. Most anime is purely corporate drivel made to appeal to dumb children or dead-end sexless NEETs.
In spite of shit like Teen Titans Go and Steven Universe existing, there are still many examples of good western animation in the world today.
>Most anime is purely corporate drivel made to appeal to dumb children or dead-end sexless NEETs.
These are memes. You have no idea what you're talking about. Do you really think it's a good idea to just blindly repeat anything and everything you hear on the Internet?
>look at the upcoming 2016 anime roster compiled by /a/
>most of it is magical girl shit, fan service or an attempt to sell toys
I think there are three magical girl shows, two of them for children and one of them for adults. And what's the problem with that anyway? Magical girl anime is a staple genre that's been around since the 60s.
Saying that an anime is "fanservice" doesn't make any sense because it doesn't tell us anything about the show. Going by the tags on Anichart, there are only two ecchi shows this season. A few more probably have small amounts of ecchi. And, again, so what?
Shows attempting to sell toys would be mostly daytime shows that are largely not watched by adult fans. Even then, what does it mean that a show is trying to sell toys? It doesn't tell us anything about its quality. Selector Infected was made to promote a card game, and it's a good show. So this is really just a red herring.
The biggest show this season (in the West, anyway) could be Erased (Boku dake ga Inai Machi), a time travel thriller. But you and people like you are of course not going to watch it, or even acknowledge its existence, because it doesn't fit your desired narrative.
What are you talking about?
Hellsing Ultimate is the pinnacle of retardedly fantastic
>Fuck the son though
The whole point of him
leaving is that the kids' roles swapped over time. He went fully wild after being a crybaby all his childhood, and the daughter went from practically feral to wanting to be human.
Somehow, rotoscoping's main issue in a number of cases is the speed. There are loads of scenes where everything seems to move too slowly, like they fucked up the frames per second when transferring it.
>France has good animation
>that means Japan can't have good animation
>only one country in the world can make good animation
You're a fucking retard. Who the fuck told you Record of Lodoss War has good animation? Probably no one, you just pulled it out of your ass in a deranged retard fit.
>the American animation industry has gone down the toilet while the anime industry has thrived.
>has become more reliant on a niche market in the past 40 years
>industry still on the work basis of the 1960s
>over saturation of series
>has gained greater stigma from the Japanese general public
How the hell is that thriving?
>has become more reliant on a niche market in the past 40 years
>industry still on the work basis of the 1960s
>over saturation of series
How do any of these things indicate that anime isn't thriving?
>has gained greater stigma from the Japanese general public
The stigma has greatly reduced, and "otaku" anime and culture have become more popular and accepted. For example:
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-01-01/top-10-grossing-domestic-japanese-films-of-2015-listed/.97030 (Love Live at 9th place)
I forgot to say that daytime anime, that children and families watch, is the same as ever and there's no stigma against it (or against anime movies like Doraemon). The stigma against otaku has weakened since the 90s.
>Mastered 2D animation
>Japs perfected Western friendliness with Akira
Why should anime be defined by just one work that all other anime has to aspire to be like? One of the great things about anime is its diversity. I've never seen anyone insist that, say, American cinema was perfected by one movie and every movie should be exactly like it.
It's not, and it doesn't even look like rotoscoping.
It's amazing what can be done with animation when you work on more than just singing and dancing from a mostly fixed perspective.
How many 2D animated films did America make last year Vs. How many animated films did Japan make last year?
You have your answer.
The last major American 2D animated film that I can think of off the top of my head is Winnie the Pooh by Disney.
But, my point is. If you had shown me a picture from every anime to have existed, along with every western cartoon, I think I could likely guess at most of the ones that are anime.
>Even if that were true, it would still be vastly more subtle and intelligent than American voice acting.
Look at domestic projects with a more serious tone and suddenly all the voice actors you wrote off as broad and unsubtle end up proving otherwise.
I thought you were talking about content.
As far as appearance goes, what might make Western animation seem more varied is that it has no recognizable or consistent character design style like most of anime does. But if you consider animation, background art, camera work, cinematography and color design, then it's not necessarily so varied anymore.
Considering the whole moe phenomenon, I don't think lifelessness is much of an issue for anime.
And what happens if you compare them to anime with a more serious tone? Hmm.
>It's anime that does, roughly speaking, everything live action does.
Is that why anime translated into live action is just as embarrassing to watch as the Fairly Odd Parents movie?
This thread is filled with weeaboos in denial.
Anime is about as varied as Japanese people. Hint: they arr rook same. Sure there's some variation, but the overwhelming majority is black straight hair, black eyes, flat face, short.
And the dubbing in anime is atrocious.
I'm getting really bored of seeing the same image with the same filename over and over whenever anime is mentioned on this board.
>Don't say such things!
>Is this the true power of ________!?
And these are idioms how?
But anyhow, pseudo-Engrish like that can be solved with competent translation which unfortunately seems to be rare in dubbed dialogue.
>most of them look like sailor moon actually
Exactly like that.
Can you tell a cartoon might be French, Canadian, Brazilian, Mexican or American just by looking at it? No.
Can you tell something is an anime just by looking at it? Yes, in every case.
What does that have to do with anything? There aren't even many anime that got live action versions. There are however tons of manga that have both a live action and anime version.
Again, anime covers just about everything live action does (and things that live action doesn't). No other form of animation on the planet can say the same.
You can usually tell something is anime, but at the same anime is visually very varied. These are not mutually exclusive.
Eyes are two arches that don't meet (compare with cartoon eyes that are usually ovals or circles)
Hair is spiky (compare to cartoon hair that is often bulbous)
Nose is a single line or tiny (compare with cartoon nose which is usually thumb-shaped or ball-shaped)
Linework is very thin (compare with the more varied line weight of cartoons)
Lighting is very dramatic and constrasting (compare with the flat shading of most cartoons)
Tiny chins (compare with huge chins or no chins of cartoons)
etc etc etc
There are plenty of visual characteristics that are common in anime that are uncommon in cartoons and vies-versa.
For every example of those, you can pretty easily find a counterexample that doesn't feature that in anime.
You have to be blind if you think those examples are homogeneous.
I guess stating a fact about narrative tradition and style on Japanese culture is a meme now?! Or maybe just saying "good meme" when you can't really contest a point is the meme.
I've seen serious anime movies, I enjoy them.
The usual weeb argument "you don't know anime", "you haven't seen the right anime" doesn't apply.
It undeniable that when it comes to dialog they seem to be written by aliens. Also tend to insult your intellect by stating the obvious many times or having to describe emotions in a caricature way. Fine, it's a different culture, but that makes it confined to that culture.
Weebs can't see this because they condition themselves to act like animes, when you talk to one you can even tell how they adopt vices in expression to be moronic and inexpressive. This is not exclusive to anime, asian movies and novels suffer the same.
It's the same old "anime is for manchildren xD" meme. It also features the strange meme of talking about "Asia" or the "Orient" when the topic is clearly limited to Japan and Japan only.
>The usual weeb argument "you don't know anime", "you haven't seen the right anime" doesn't apply.
There are people who've seen over a thousand anime and still don't understand anything about it and go around repeating stupid memes like the only thing they knew about anime was Dragon Ball. So having watched a couple of anime really doesn't mean anything.
>Also tend to insult your intellect by stating the obvious many times or having to describe emotions in a caricature way.
This actually describes American animation. It's common for people to project the flaws of American animation onto anime.
>Weebs can't see this because they condition themselves to act like animes
Weebs are at this point more of a bogeyman than a real thing. 99,99% of people accused of being weebs are not weebs.
You are a weeb for not being able to see the blatant style of over simplification and grunts and noises to express emotion on Japanese tradition.
I mean, it's a fact of japanese language itself, how you can deny that is absolutely complete isolation from reality.
It's not the same old manchildren meme, it has nothing to do with that. It's about being able to express yourself in an universal manner.
Your little animu bubble is really impenetrable, huh.
I'm not a weeb just because I don't share your delusional animephobia.
>It's about being able to express yourself in an universal manner.
What are different languages
What are different cultures
The video title says it's in both English and Japanese, and the video link contains a timecode linking to the Japanese version. One of us is acting like a moron, but it isn't me.
>Richard Williams image
>Not one mention of Thief and the Cobbler
Most of the animators on it were American. Hell, Williams always referred to Ken Harris as a master.
>Demonstrating anything by comparing a DUB to the original language
I'm sorry you're an inbred hick who can't read anon
2. existing or occurring inside a particular country; not foreign or international.
"the current state of US domestic affairs"
synonyms: national, home, internal
"the domestic car industry"
>For every example of those, you can pretty easily find a counterexample that doesn't feature that in anime.
And yet collectively they form a distinct style. It's like saying rap isn't a style because not all rap songs have all the hallmarks of the rap style.
Yes there's a rap style. Yes there's an anime style. The existence of variations does not make the style disappear
To the weebs counter-arguing every post insulting anime in this thread:
How would you personally improve the state of western animation? What are your favorite examples of western animation (you obviously visit animation threads on /co/ with some level of knowledge on the subject)?
>Cartoons might look worse than anime, but they tell better stories!
The only really good cartoons I can think of off the top are my head are BTAS, Freakazoid, and ATLA
With anime I can say Cowboy Bebop, Madoka, Ghost in the Shell, Fate/Zero, Psycho Pass, Lain, Neon Genesis Evangelion...
And I'm a casual.
Now I don't think the reason anime tells better stories is due to anything special
I think it's just that the quantity of anime versus the quantity of cartoons is larger.
Like, we get five new cartoons a season AT BEST
With anime you got like forty fucking shows a season
Most of which are shit but goddamn the more shots you take the more likely you are to hit
Get better story-boarders. Better directors. God forbid, maybe even bring a few writers on board. Enough of this "collabarative story-telling bullshit", y'all motherfuckers need structure.
I'm inclined towards Avatar the Last Airbender, incidentally, I view the Legend of Korra as everything wrong with Western Animation.
The goal shouldn't be to "look cool" or tackle "modern themes", the goal should be to make a complete coherent story, the music, the art, the writing, and animation coming together in harmony.
Also, and this is directed towards Steven Universe and Adventure Time - IF YOU ARE TRYING TO TELL A CONTINOUS STORY YOU CAN'T DISH IT OUT IN ELEVEN MINUTE CHUNKS
A series can be long and it can be short, but an episode can't be eleven minutes long if you're trying to world-build. It just contrasts with the notion of trying to make something big and expansive.
That was rhetoric. It doesn't matter because the style is still present.
By the way, does the style change after the 30 minute mark? Can you post a screenshot of this vastly different style?
>hasn't even watched it
>judges it as one that doesn't avert the standard tropes based on one screenshot
i shouldn't even bother replying.
>I'm inclined towards Avatar the Last Airbender, incidentally, I view the Legend of Korra as everything wrong with Western Animation.
Avatar should have continued Aang's story or gone back to a previous avatar
Shouldn't have taken 430 posts but here's proof that OP's full of shit if anybody still needed it.
Did you even read the posts you're replying to?
Here's the entire reply chain for your benefit.
You stepped in the middle of a discussion about the visual style of anime, and you went completely mad and off the rails because you just didn't read it.
This post >>79016949 is the only one that I as talking about. Stop trying to shove in your style shit when most of characters in the show look nothing like you describe them to be.
>this is what Japs consider "animation"
By being very homogenous.
Like 80s action flicks, there are some high notes, but the vast majority is the same recycled garbage.
Now the problem with anime fans, is that they praise this garbage and can't see its flaws and repetitiveness and lack of creativity. 80s action flick fans will usually admit that they're into samey garbage, or horror film fans, or rom-com fans. But anime fans idolize anime far beyond what's healthy and that in turn encourages anime creators to produce more samey trash.
>By being very homogenous.
Elaborate, because this is already untrue.
>This post >>79016949 is the only one that I as talking about. Stop trying to shove in your style shit when most of characters in the show look nothing like you describe them to be.
Two arches for eyes - check.
Spiky hair - check.
Dot/line nose - check.
Very thin linework - check.
Dramatic lighting - check.
Tiny chins - check.
How is it again that Giant Robo doesn't fit this description?
>How is this a bad thing?
I didn't say it's bad. I said it's repetitive.
>What the fuck does this mean?
Basically it means start contrast between light and shadow, which is nearly always the case in anime. Even when there's no bright light source, there's going to be bright reflections (especially on boobs), and the face area is always going to have sharp shadows as if it's brightly lit from some direction.
Really classic example in this clip >>79020680
(except no boob lights)
Look at the almost-naked guy standing in direct sunlight. For some reason the lighting on his body and face is very dramatic, very sharp contrast between light and dark. Why? Anime!
>voice acting sameness
Not true, if you aren't a native speaker you can't comment on this.
And the west isn't the same with what it wants to tell? Don't make me laugh.
As for >>>79016949, that's just how it is. The entire industry became what i was from Tezuka, which he had got from Disney. The thing is if you actually looked into this, most character designers are able to differentiate themselves from others by how they animate.
And that's not a good thing you weeb faggot?
So why, exactly, are weebs so incredibly obnoxious anyway?
The only explanation I can come up with is that they feel shunned by their own society and they think they can go take refuge in someone elses, and whenever some reminder of their own society comes up they get all pissy and upset. But if America's rejected you, then an incredibly rigid, unbending, individual-unfriendly country like Japan is going to chew you up, spit you out and take a shit on your remains.
I think weebs can't see it because they have some form of autism/assburgers, and having characters outright explain what emotion they're feeling would be very comforting to them. It's the exact same reason why autists like Thomas the Tank Engine so much, the trains hold their extremely exaggerated expressions for long periods of time while the narrator outright states what each is feeling, allowing autists to grasp the emotions behind it. Ironically that makes these extremely shallow caricatures look extremely deep to the autist in comparison to any other medium, because they cannot grasp the depth in regular expressions.
I only posted the image, no idea what the other two anons are talking about.
Poor Robot Carnival.
Such a great idea, such great animation, and some of the most retarded writing I've ever witnessed. The whole thing is like some horrible casserole of nonsense. A beautiful, horrible casserole of nonsense.
Somebody should re-write the poor bastard and let some different animators take a whack at it.