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Is he right?
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You are currently reading a thread in /co/ - Comics & Cartoons

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Is he right?
>>
I think American animation is a lot less ambitious but as far as technical skill is concerned they're the same.
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>>78980339

>America never mastered 2D animation

What is Fantasia?
>>
Technically, anime is probably better.

However in terms of execution, it's picked up a lot of really really bad habits - particularly in shounen. So much of it is formulaic, predictable, bland and 'safe'.
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>>78980412

we should probably try to separate content from medium before anyone tries to start a slap fight about it
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>>78980339
Anime doesn't even have lip synched dialogue
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>>78980448
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>implying
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I'm pretty sure he never said this and it's edit on level of the Miyazaki ones.
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>>78980492
SPOOKY OUGI
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>>78980531
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I'm sure american animators can make an Akira if they wanted. Problem is there would no one financing or organizing such a project.
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>>78980339
it depends. low budget US animation is about 1000x better than low budget anime,

in the US it is bare minimum that you animate on twos or ones, never threes or fours like you see in Japan, in the US you have to lip sync even if it's bad it was matched up to existing audio, in Japan you just flap the mouth and let them figure out dialog later. even low budget animation in the US will sometimes use moving holds, anticipation, and dramatic well silhouetted poses. I've never seen that happen in low budget anime.

but when your talking about the high budget stuff it's more opinion based, because on high budget stuff you see very similar use of all the elements of animation and there are pretty big stylistic differences which is easy to confuse with technical elements, most people aren't going to notice how well weighted characters are, they are more likely to just look at modern appeal vs dated appeal.
>>
>>78980339

In terms of animation, sure, anime looks better. But that's it most of the time. A whole lot of style with the nothing really good to go along with it. There's just as many anime masterpieces as there are for the West.

Trying to put one over the other is stupid.

Also, inb4 "anime is in the stars while the west is in the sand" or whatever bs quote it was.
>>
thank you spooky ougi
>>
"Cartoons were a mistake" - Walt Disney
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>>78980706

Something animated on 2's or 1's isn't better than 3's and 4's, that how Japan does it. It's their style and way of life. You're looking too much at the Illusion of Life method while the Japanese may exactly adhere to that but that's okay.

It's like comparing hamburgers and sushi, both are good but different. Different is good.
>>
>>78980800

*may not exactly

I'm such a baka.
>>
>>78980706
The big difference is that low budget anime and low budget cartoons are on very different levels of cost. Anime can be on a shoestring budget, but even cheap cartoons are a good level above that.
Also, there's a lot more anime every season then there is even cartoons in a year. That leads to a huge range of quality. There's good and bad and everything in the middle. It's just the business model that they chose.
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>>78980339
Fantasia is the first thing that came to mind.
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>>78980800
>I am full of shit
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>>78980339

Then why did Japan never produce anything on the level of Fantasia or Pinnochio?
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>>78980886
>I have literally never seen an anime but I'm going to run my mouth anyway

Alright buddy.
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>>78980886
I'm pretty sure literally every movie Satoshi Kon or Miyazaki ever made has easily blown both of those out of the water.
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>>78980886

Money, duh.
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>>78980886
Yo.
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>>78980912
I'd be anxious to put most of Kon's stuff in the same kind of "raw animation" as Fantasia or Pinocchio, but he certainly was cut short with his death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-QpfLV8dQw
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>>78980912
What are you? Ignorant?
>>
I can't believe Don Bluth is a weeaboo!
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>>78981009
>but he certainly was cut short with his death.
His death is such a big loss for animation.
If you haven't seen this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz49vQwSoTE&ab_channel=EveryFrameaPainting

At least, there's still Mamoru Hosoda.
>>
>>78981193
I love that video, and EFaP.
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>>78980886
Did you not read the OP image?

Besides, cherry picking is silly anyway. This type of thinking just boxes people in and makes them less accepting of different styles. Sure the classic Disney style is wonderful, but that doesn't mean it's the only way to go. Something like FLCL or Jin-Roh is just as great to me animation wise.
>>78981193
Wolf Children is great. Fuck the son though, ungrateful little faggot.
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>>78980448
This. There's such a weird standard of quality in anime, or rather, lack thereof. Not only do the lips not sync to the dialogue, but often times they don't event start running their mouth animation cycles at the correct times. Characters are constantly moving their mouths with no sound coming out. It looks lazy as fuck.

>>78980494
101 Dalmations is fucking awesome. It was my favorite Disney movie as a kid, but I haven't seen it in like, 20 years for some reason. Time for a torrent, I think.
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>>78981504
>Not only do the lips not sync to the dialogue, but often times they don't event start running their mouth animation cycles at the correct times. Characters are constantly moving their mouths with no sound coming out. It looks lazy as fuck.
What the fuck kind of anime are you watching?
>>
>>78981533
>"Well I don't notice it, so it isn't true"
Open your eyes. I don't mean that characters go on flapping their lips for an entire scene with no dialogue, but you get the distinct idea that the animators just generally timed the line of dialogue and ran an arbitrary "open-closed-open-closed" lip flap sequence for roughly the amount of time needed. It doesn't always match up. Often, if the VA has a slight pause or a breath in the line, the lips will just keep on going right through it.

Does anime even adhere to the voice before animation process? Their voice acting isn't very subtle or intelligent. I don't imagine that it's very important at all for the human element to come first. It wouldn't surprise me if the animation sweatshops churned out episodes first and then the VAs came in to shoehorn their dialogue in as best they could.

Not that they do that good of a job in the first place. Most dubs match the lip flaps better than the original
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>>78981755
>Their voice acting isn't very subtle or intelligent.
How do you know? You don't speak Japanese.
>>
>>78980339
Hes confusing animation quality with final product quality, animation is hit or miss when comparing east and west.

Writing quality tends to heavily favor the east though, the way they monetize anime allows for better writing to show through.

There are exceptions to every rule, but it cant be denied running shows perpetually until ratings drop can really effect quality, look at the AT threads on /co/ these days for a recent example.
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>>78980339
These quotes seem like bullshit unless you can provide a source.
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>>78981755
>Most dubs match the lip flaps better than the original
>>
>>78981860
>I-It can't be helped
>Don't say such things!
>Is this the true power of ________!?
I guess I should have said the writing wasn't subtle or intelligent. The voice acting may be good, I don't know. But the dialogue itself is so superficial. Characters are never nuanced, they never speak emotions, they only flat out state things, often in an awkward and stilted manner. Across the board, from the cheapest cookie-cutter slice of life show, to the supposed "masterpieces", any sort of character relation or development is done through the same tired archetypes, and even the same regurgitated phrases. It's fine if you can ignore it, because the anime that are good or interesting enough to warrant watching are usually enough of a spectacle that they entertain without actually having any character depth.

>>78981894
>Writing quality tends to heavily favor the east though, the way they monetize anime allows for better writing to show through.
This is so backwards. Writing quality from the east is horrific. It's so wooden and rigid. It's like the culture's strict adherence to tradition and archetypes makes the writers afraid to try something new. Even if the concepts of a show sound inventive on paper, they all get approached and executed in the same tired way. It's awful.

>>78982069
>"I can't contribute any evidence to prove otherwise, so I'm just gonna whip a reaction image out of my bottomless folder"
Dubs, especially English dubs, often spend a lot of effort making their spoken dialogue match the lip flaps, which is why so much of it comes out awkward. Part of why, anyway. The other reason is that dubbers never re-write dialogue to sound better anymore, which was more common in older anime dubs. They do a literal translation, which sounds like garbage.
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>>78981461
>Wolf Children is great.
His last movie is out this week where I lived. Can't wait!
>>
>>78982214
>The other reason is that dubbers never re-write dialogue to sound better anymore, which was more common in older anime dubs. They do a literal translation, which sounds like garbage.
you're spouting a lot of bullshit, but this is true for a lot of anime. Honestly that's more of just way less budgets for bringing anime over now that we can torrent and stream with subs so much easier
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>>78981504
It's because dubbing in Japan is not donethe same. In Occident, when you dub a scene there a paper rolling under the picture with marks indicating when each of the characters starts and finishes to talk. In Japan, they kind of go with the flow, no marks, nothing, so it's a lot less precise.
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>>78982214
>This is so backwards. Writing quality from the east is horrific.

No way the west writing is often just shit tier extended toy commercials and thats far more often than the east.

Manga tends to break tradition far more than its western equivalent, when is the last time you seen something actually different come from Dc/Marvel compared to WSJ or any of its equivalents?

Youd have to start looking at 2000ad or Darkhorse to even begin to get the quality the MAINSTREAM anime and manga producers put out.
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>>78980339
I dont think he ever said that. This seems wrong. Considering Richard Willaim's animation was all about smooth motion, and gesture based expression. most anime is the opposite of that.
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>>78982214
Okay, you either haven't watch a lot of anime, are partial to japanese stereotypes but not to occidental ones, or watched mostly bad one.

The way they speak their emotions is a cultural thing. For a long time, I thought japanese va were always exagerating until I heard a group of teenage japanese girls yell in the subway (I don't live in Japan). So no, va are not always going too far.

Do you think Evangelion's characters were a standard 20 years ago? You really think things never change in anime?
Have you seen Shin Sekai yori more recently?
>>
When Anime produces a show as well designed, animated, Voice acted and well written as Steven Universe, then you can say the East has caught up.

As it is now, Anime really doesnt have a leg to stand on, and Steven Universe is the Pinnacle of animation, that all other works needs to measure up against
>>
>>78982600
>>
>>78982637
Show me a scene in anime that can surpass this one, in tone, animation, design, voice acting, action, camera work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JARVfb-FBg

you will not find anything that comes close to equaling it.
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>>78982708
I'll have a go when I finish laughing.
>>
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>>78981755
>>78982214
>>
>>78982729
Ill lower the bar a bit for you, find something in anime that is better than this whole sequence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3GhYt66Qk
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>>78980494
Well that is the work of Milt Kahl so really only proving OP's point.
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>>78982827
TOP KEK
O
P

K
E
K
>>
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>>78980339
Age ghetto kicked the feet out from under american animation productions.

It's not skill it's funding
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>>78982214

Someone needs to watch Shouwa Raguko. Right now.
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>>78980412
Gotta follow the money senpai, get that waifu yen and that shonen merch
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>>78982600
>>78982708
>>78982827
>>
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>>78982600

>Steven Universe is the Pinnacle of animation

I know its bait but I'm going to bite

I'm a fan of SU and I'm just going to laugh at you
>>
This thread is cringe. It's so sad to see inept people on /co/ or which is to say everyone on /co/ look at what the worst anime has to offer and think it's the standard all in an attempt ignore the west's mediocrity. Why can't /co/ admit that when it comes to the west, animation is a stagnated medium?

I will admit that anime and manga usually prefers quantity over quality but sadly America has neither.
>>
>>78982600
I know this is bait but it still makes me a little mad that there's probably some idiot who genuinely believe this.
>>
>>78982214

It's like you watched Naruto and think all and every single anime is like that. You're a faggot and one of the many problems with what's wrong in /co/. And before you say shit like being a weeb or defending Japan or somehsit. I'm indifferent to anime and I have been a /co/mrade for six years but even I can see how the west treats art and animation like trash.

Watch more anime and read some decent manga, bro before you type up stupid shit.
>>
>>78982600
>>78982708
>>78982827

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NSI5niLQtc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nlS8KU6p4o
>>
Okay some of the people in this thread need to watch some standup comedy.

I'll supply a clip at random.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsPDT5qHtZ4

That was chosen at random, I assure you.
>>
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>>78983045

come on man your making us SU fans worse then we already are
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I think with Japanese animation, animators either go all out (Akira, Little Witch Academia, etc) or just appeal to Moe-fans (Lucky Star, Lucky Star, Lucky Star.)

However, I feel like with American animation, you go with what sells, which is flash animated 'deep' appeal to nostalgia shows, or 3d animation, which isn't AS impressive as old drawn animation, but still neat and pretty..
>>
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Great thread guys
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>>78980412
>says the superhero-dominated American comics industry
>>
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anyone else hate this board
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>>78983119
>Summer Wars
>Good
>>
>>78982214
>a language has different idioms to my own!
>that means its shit!

Every language has them.
>>
>>78983530

I hated this board for a long time. I have been here since 2010 and I keeping hoping one day /co/ would stop being so damn liberal and having shit taste. Protip: they didn't.
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>>78983543

>posting SU

It's like you enjoy shitposting.
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>>78983530
I hate everything.
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>>78980412
This thread is about the animation, not the story. And anime writing is actually garbage except for specific classics like Totoro, Galactic Railway and Moomin.
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>>78983530
>>
>>78983733
A correct opinion haver.
>>
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>>78983739
>i'm a casual who's only seen three anime at most
>>
>>78983872
Most anime fans have already come to terms with the fact most of the anime they like sucks, why haven't you?
>>
>>78983530
Despite the constant shitposting, /v/ is a better place than this mess.
>>
>>78982984
Because /co/, and most of 4chan for that matter, is full of irrational children.
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>>78980800
Animating on 3s and 4s means half as many drawings, which means jerkier animations. Not to mention all the panning stills that they abuse in cheap anime to try and make audiences forget that nothing has actually moved for several seconds.
>>
>>78983920

At least /v/ is honest with their awfulness and they can be pretty fun at times if you know where to look. /co/ is such a damn drag. It's like this place is full of girls and normies.
>>
>>78982600
>When Anime produces a show as well designed, animated, Voice acted and well written as Steven Universe, then you can say the East has caught up.
Congratulations, anon. You've managed to fall into circular logic in one single argument.
>>
>>78982708
This scene is nice with a funny DBZ + Sonic reference but stop baiting, please?
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>>78980339
TAKE A SHIT IN HIS MOUTH AND FIND OUT
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>>78983900
They should stop watching moe shit and the last successful shounen.
>>
>Japanese animation
>>
How many threads are we gonna have about western animation vs eastern animation today? Was alan rickman a weeaboo?
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>>78985140

>Super

No one is gonna fall for it.
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>>78985194

Is he was then he's knows it's the superior animated medium.
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>>78985140
>japanese animation
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>>78982888
Trips for fucking 19 year old girls.
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>>78985297
What is that from?
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>>78985623
Bobby's in Deep!
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>>78985297
So was this rotoscoped like Take On Me, or nah?
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>>78985692
Animated entirely by hand.
>>
>>78982708
People like this shit?
>>
>>78983900
You must be really young and stupid to think this. The past few years do not represent anime as a whole.
>>
What's so good about these replies is

1. Nobody realises that Richard Williams never said this, it's all fake subtitles.

and

2. OP or whoever made that image must be a big fan of animation to know to mention Inoue, Okiura et al because atypical to 'anime' style, those animators create beautiful movement using many frames, so everyone arguing anime 'looks better but doesn't move better' has Inoue to answer to.

OP who are you you big sakuga nerd
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>>78987482
>I literally haven't ever met one single japanese animator: the post
>>
>>78987482
>No one realises Richard Williams never said this
Nigga please. It's not about who said it, it's about what it is.
>>
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Who's your favourite Japanese director, /co/?
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>>78987531

what can you tell us from your fateful meeting then
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>>78987566

Which is why I went on to make point #2. He's not citing anime in general, but those superstar one-of-a-kind animators whose work does rival that of Kahl, Tytla and the like.
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>>78987645
Akiyuki Shinbo
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>>78987723
>one of a kind animator
But there are so many great animators in Japan?
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I'm going to generalize the hell out of both mediums that are biased from my own experiences from the two and I don't even watch anime that much so I'm sure I'm going to get many replies, probably valid, disputing me and proving that I'm a dumbass but whatever:
>Animation
Japan>America
>Writing
America>Japan
>>
French animation was here.
Ya'll a bunch of bustas.
>>
>>78980492
>>78980574
>CQC Bro
nice trollpost
>>
>>78980886
>I have never watched any anime ever.

Yes, thank you for telling us this.
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>>78982637
Sauce please
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>>78980408
a bunch of different Disney animation shorts that varies art styles, directors and genres, some are good and others are completely meh. the jap equivalent to Fantasia is Genius party
>>
The fact that even the most high budgeted Japanese animations still rely on stoic pans and lack of lip sync after 60 years says otherwise.
>>
Stealth weeaboo thread is exactly that.

I grew out of watching Anime because of everything I had to complain about "local" animation was more pronounced in Anime. The whole commercial for toys/games is practically 80% of the anime/manga that gets sent this way, and the left-overs are all rehashed cultural situation based fluff. I'm cool with watching a movie that is interesting or is aesthetically pleasing (mostly Studio Gib. stuff, but even that can get moony and stupid looking). I get that there are cultural shorthands that western types will not naturally understand because that's just normal (or normal for whatever place it's from anyhow).

Ultimately, I am happier watching "western" style cartoons though because I don't need a history lesson to understand the context of why X-person is tapping on their shoulder and wriggling their eyebrow. I'm rewarded for watching in a more useful way than "What is the story of the three clay pots, and what fucking meaning does it impart onto the plot? WHY DO I NEED TO KNOW THIS? Why did they spend 17 minutes explaining how this guy is such the greatest fighter ever and how he used the dull side of his blade so as not to draw a single drop of blood, you know how I can tell someone is a good fighter? When they kick all the ass."
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>>78987645
fucking "Robot Carnival" was amazing, and that story gave me more feels than everything else in anime ever. Battle Angel Alita is a decent 2nd though.
>>
>>78989928
>i don't want to think at all when watching something
>>
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>>78989615
they are deep, you just don't understand!
>>
>>78990005
>duh derp duhrrrrrr!

That's what you sound like, fucktard.
>>
>>78985611

You mean adult women?
>>
>>78980706
>in Japan you just flap the mouth and let them figure out dialog later.
Zettai Shounen just pans at the character's feet or back of the head during telephone conservations....
>>
>>78980339
USA prefer live action
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-14/alan-rickman-dies-from-cancer-aged-69/7089984
>>
>>78980706
Are people really bothered by mouth flaps?
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>>78989192

boku girl
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>>78980412
as if western cartoon are any better. the bulk of western animation is for kids and very rarely does anything particularly ambitous come out.
Meanwhile there's some more interesting stuff coming out from some more auteur driven animation like pig related
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>>78990642
le maison de petits cubes was also pretty ambitious for a japanese project
>>
>>78983893
I'd be interested to see the data and methods behind this.
>>
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>>78990693
>le maison de petits cubes
that looks really european though
kickheart is awesome also
>>
>>78983893
I must be a newfriend, because I don't remember when this poll was taken.
>>
>>78990585

when you've spent hours matching mouth flaps and shapes to dialog, then it really bugs the shit out of you. I liked anime a lot more before I animated anything.

also it brings in elements I think are terrible personally, a lot of odd drawn out dialog and a lot of horrific sighing and grunting for no reason. great voice acting is a huge factor in the quality of the final product.
>>
>>78992656
But consider the quality of the average TV show, they don't put the costs into inane shit like that, rather they put more into the more costly and well drawn out scenes.
>>
>>78980886
> Hi I was born in 2003!

Good job ignoring Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Record of Lodoss War, Venus Wars, Demon City Shinjuku or any of about 40-ish titles that all surpassed those what 2-3 Disney movies from 70+ years ago.
>>
>>78992826
>Demon City Shinjuku
Neo Tokyo was better senpai
>>
>>78990624
Oh yeah.
>>
Wonder what would be made if somehow the exact same situation of an anime studio was made in the US.

If by some weird chance, miracle, or wish from a genie there was a studio that made animation that was
>Focused on character design quality (albeit their own overly stylized version)
>was willing to throw a large budget at it
>had a legion of animators perfectly willing to do 60+ hour weeks while earning about $22K a year doing it
>They are only paid for 40 of those 60 hours
>barely pay the original author/creator anything at all in terms of royalties and they are happy just to see their work on screen


Could the US squeeze an Akira out of that situation?
>>
>>78983754
The Foolkiller was such a good storytime
>>
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>>78980339
Where is this from? Seems interesting.
>>
>>78993105

Akira was high budget passion project, the goal was to push the boundary of how good animation could be, it's not the typical production mill stuff your describing. granted if the US was set up like that it would probably bring the technical quality down quite a bit.
>>
>>78980339
I know that's a troll image, but the Japanese aren't as good character animators compared to their American counterparts. The former makes up for that by being better all-rounders though.
>>
>>78992768

your confusing aesthetics with the technical aspects of animation. skipping lip sync for a well rendered painting you pan over isn't an option in the west. in fact several low budget cartoons did both in the US, Ren and Stimpy, early Spongebob, Cow and Chicken, Flapjack, granted mostly for gross out shots, but you can manage both in the west on a cable tv show budget, may be higher than a typical anime's budget I don't know, but it is what it is for comparisons sake.
>>
I think we are all looking at this the very wrong way. Trying to compare two subjects for an objective conclusion is not possible. Let's look at this situation in two scenarios.

High budget animation comes to the same technical level between America and Japan. The focus differs greatly between the two. Japan likes fluidity and detail in production, ranging from the action-packed Akira to the delicate landscapes of Garden of Words. The emphasis on beauty might give the impression that it is technically better at face value. American animation is definitely geared more towards character acting. While Anime was brushing up on its backgrounds animators like Milt Kahl were studying things like the walking pattern of a cat very intensely. Or maybe the flight motions of a bird. Things to incorporate into acting. If the characters felt truly alive, you would get a better impression of those characters. How many minor characters in major anime movies can you name compared to western ones?

On the low budget, it's a different story. Similar to how the American entertainment market is riddled like cancer with rehashed-to-the-bone movies and a hopeful-yet-very-tired television shows, Japan has mass market anime. And like the US's movies and TV shows, they are mostly a commercial market looking for products guaranteed to sell. Thus, lots of rehashed concepts and shit. Even Japan's drawing styles for anime have mutated to the point of being called "inbred" from borrowing so much from other artists.

They are both the same. They have flaws and good traits. Whichever is better is based on your preference.
>>
>>78993680
Anime has to deal with lower drawing counts; the norm tends to be around 3000 to 5000 frames for a 20 minute episode. Western cartoons average around 10000 in comparison. That amount is only reserved for special episodes in anime.
>>
If you haven't watched this Film Board of Canada short, you have no right to post anything in this thread.

https://vimeo.com/12663186


Funny how everyone on /co/ ignores shorts and art-house.
>>
>>78993826
It's more like American and Japanese have different approaches to character animation. The American animator is concerned about how a motion is going to express the character's emotion and personality in a scene, while the Japanese animator thinks about how the motion can be portrayed.
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Americans also have a very different style choice for characters.

Since the 50's American animators seem to like totally designing their own character to their own tastes. It's not totally a budget thing. They actually appreciate a completely individual appearance even if it means tube arms, no necks, and giant eyes.

Japanese try harder to conform to a set design with human shape. And it comes off as adhering to a natural design more than westerners.
>>
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>>78980445
This
>>
>>78993956
I watch Japanese shorts though.
>>
>>78981009
>>78981193
I couldn't give less of a shit about anime but Paprika is one of my favourite films. The star that burns twice as bright burns half as along and all that.
>>
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>Is he right?

No.
>>
Threads like these are like watching people argue about which terminal cancer patient looks healthier

East
West

Animation is fucked and largely regarded as children's stuff when it can be so much more
>>
>>78996958
The topic is about the actual animation you idiot.
>>
>>78996894
Japan has a lot of problems with overworker employees, not only in animation studios.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5bVWzTyJ7E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po8IPh64rVM
>>
>>78998867
>tfw Japan is slowly killing itself
;_;
>>
>>78989296
>the jap equivalent to Fantasia is Robot Carnival
ftfy
https://youtu.be/PgsPIX4dQAc
>>
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>>78983045
> 8 out of 9
not bad, actually.
>>
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For art, however...
>>
>>79002811
This doesn't really hold water. The Japs could've totally gone for a more realistic aesthetic in their art. Just look at the clothing in that picture on the guy in the 'Japan' section, for example.

Their art followed the aesthetic of their kabuki theater, though, and was purposely stylized to suit their cultural needs.
>>
>>79002974
A lot of thing could've totally happened.
But they didn't.
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Honestly I think Star Vs has the best animation right now

I'd probably put Super Jail second
>>
>>79003600

Therefore all that follows must be regarded as shit because one piece of art dictates it as such?

Come the fuck on
>>
>>78987645
Yuasa
>>
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>>78980448
>>
>>78992656
Consider that the japanese language is full of vowels and you open your mouth a lot more than you would with other western languages
>>
>>78980339

No, he isn't right.

>>78980412

A lot of anime looks good on the surface but the actual animation itself is static
>>
>>79005080
Western cartoons are actually worse at this
they mask this with extreme closeups, brighter colors, and smears
>>
>>78997151
these threads always devolve into pissing contests retard
>>
>OP is clearly talking about the quality of animated feature films
>Thread turns into an argument about TV shows
Every fucking time
>>
>>78980978

>funded by americans
>>
>>78980978
God, I fucking hate cyberpunk.
>>
Jesus Christ, this thread. And weeaboos wonder why everybody hates them.
>>
>>78980339
Old ass fucking weeb, go back to hot gluing your figures.
>>
Okay, I've watched a lot of the so-called anime "masterpieces" and I'd like to know if this is really the best anime has to offer.
>Akira
Actually good. One of the few anime I'd admit to liking.
>Ghost in the Shell
Trash
>Spirited Away
Decent
>Princess Mononoke
Decent
>Totoro
Decent
>Angel's Egg
Mediocre
>End of Evangelion
Mediocre
>Jin-Roh
Mediocre
>Paprika
Mediocre
>Perfect Blue
Mediocre
>>
>>79007770
Yes. And if you think there's more than a couple of non-Japanese 2d animated movies that can compare in animation quality to any of those made these last 20 years I'd like to know them.
>>
>>79007770
I think you just don't appreciate visuals enough. It's not for you. Understand that almost every film you listed has an appeal that can't be satisfied by 99% of western animation, even if you don't see it.
>>
>>79004111
It's called "bait" anon. You actually aren't supposed to reply to it.
>>
"Hi, remember when there were those scattered episodes of your favorite cartoon that had animation that was above and beyond? That was me."
>>
American 2D animation never really went anywhere. People talk about Disney as being "full animation," but their animation and movies in general were very limited in scope. Disney's overinflated reputation is a result of ignorance, low standards and nationalism.

>>78980582
They really couldn't, and it's preposterous that you think they could. They don't have the skill, and these days there's hardly even any 2D animation being made in America. Anime's animation and character design style is also not something you can just do on a whim. Very few Western artists are able to draw a convincing looking anime (or manga) style character (I say "very few," but I've actually never seen it done).

>>78980706
It's a popular myth that animation quality is decided by the number of frames, but nothing could be further from the truth.

All this complaining about lack of lip syncing is just people grasping at straws, desperately trying to find some way of propping up American animation.

>>78980743
>There's just as many anime masterpieces as there are for the West.
>Trying to put one over the other is stupid.
Anime is objectively superior.

>>78981755
>Their voice acting isn't very subtle or intelligent.
Even if that were true, it would still be vastly more subtle and intelligent than American voice acting.

>>78982214
>But the dialogue itself is so superficial. Characters are never nuanced, they never speak emotions, they only flat out state things, often in an awkward and stilted manner.
>This is so backwards. Writing quality from the east is horrific.
Translation: "I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about."

>It's like the culture's strict adherence to tradition and archetypes makes the writers afraid to try something new.
Projection ahoy. It's American animation that does virtually nothing except children's entertainment and adult comedy. It's anime that does, roughly speaking, everything live action does.
>>
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>>78987969
HAAAAHAAAA
>>
>>78983530
More and more, every day. There's almost no reason to visit now that /aco/ exists.
>>
>>79007078
>God, I fucking hate cyberpunk.
I cannot comprehend why you would hate cyberpunk.
>>
>>78993956
>Funny how everyone on /co/ ignores shorts and art-house.
I don't understand, why would I do that? There are no waifus. There is no shipping. They've never aired on CN, Nick, or Disney? So why bother.
>>
>>79002974
>cultural needs
lol, wut?
>>
>>78983893
>100 isn't even half the height of 139
The fuck?
>>
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>>78983530
>>
>>78983193
>>79002562
Which one is real?
>>
>>78983327
This makes no sense. You are comparing movies and OVAs with TV shows, and there is no "moe" animation style.

>>78984486
Sometimes people don't move. That actually happens in real life too.

>>78987766
American animation does barely anything except children's entertainment and adult comedy. How could its writing even begin to compete with anime?

>>78989615
This obsession with lip syncing really is curious.

>>78989928
So you watched a couple of shounen shows, and now you think you know all about anime and "grew out of it." Ok.

>>78993105
Frozen had a budget of $150 million. The Wind Rises had a budget of $30 million. American shows seem to typically have their episodes in production for 9 months, whereas in the same amount of time an entire 12 episode anime show could be produced from start to finish (not including pre-production). A voice actor on The Simpsons costs more per episode than the entire production budget of one anime episode. Animators in Japan are paid less (in the beginning of their careers) than they would be in America, but it's not like the Koreans who handle most American animation are paid much either. Anime also has much smaller budgets and tighter schedules. Animators have to be good and they have to be fast, and the production pipeline has to be efficient.

Arguing that anime only looks so good because of slave labor or some other kind of jewery is just rationalization. America never cared about animation as much as Japan, never took it as seriously, and never invested as much effort into it. Disney did put effort into their animation, but it was so narrow in its focus that it was only good for making Disney movies.

And you really underestimate the difficulty of realistic, high quality animation and filmmaking if you think you can just pay some people a lot of money and they'll somehow make it happen. Who exactly is going to animate it? The producers would probably just outsource it to Japan.
>>
>>78990891
>data and methods behind this
>implying
>>
>>78987969
>>
>>79008714

Daily reminder.
>>
>>78983119
>"Those are our lives you are talking about!"
Does Japan have a gambling problem?
>>
>>
>>78993487
American character animation is very cartoonish and uses simple designs and camera work.

>>78993826
Disney's animation is like a toolbox that only contains a hammer. It's the greatest hammer ever made and you'll never pound nails better with any other hammer, but you'll also never do anything except pound nails. That is to say, Disney's animation is highly limited. It's great for cartoonishly exaggerated hyper-fluid character acting, singing, dancing and physical comedy, and that's about all it's great for. Anime animation is highly flexible and suited for any kind of storytelling, and can scale from amateur productions to TV shows to high end movies.

>Thus, lots of rehashed concepts and shit.
You are assuming that rehashing something necessarily makes it bad, and that making something original necessarily makes it good.

>Even Japan's drawing styles for anime have mutated to the point of being called "inbred" from borrowing so much from other artists.
Funny how nobody ever says anything like this about Western arts. That's because the unspoken logic here is that Japanese arts are only good when they borrow from Western arts.

>They are both the same.
They couldn't possibly be any more different.
>>
>>79008662
Though I think you're weebing out a bit I agree. All the talented animators in the west just make slapstick for kids. I think a big factor is the west has moved away from 2D and moved to CGI, which they are the best at, despite being over-funded.
>>
>>78996894
How does that invalidate what he (supposedly) said?

>>78996958
But it already is more in Japan.
>>
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>>78996958
I don't even care about anime and know you're retarded.

There are 0 legitimate opportunities to work in animation outside of children's stuff in the west.

There are definitely more than 0 in the east.
>>
>>79008276
>>>/a/

You'll be more at home there, weeb.
99% of anime is trash, and 99% of that trash is porn created for pervert otaku.

There are probably as many masterpiece animes as there are western cartoons.

You're posting this on /co/, though, so you clearly were just looking for a (You).
>>
>>79008918
Atleast it puts more than ramen on the table.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BPTNdmdJSc
>>
>>79009031
>You'll be more at home there, weeb.
Why don't you complain to the OP rather than me? I didn't make this thread.

>99% of anime is trash, and 99% of that trash is porn created for pervert otaku.
TV anime can't even show nipples, and sex of any kind--even off-screen--is very rare. You're just spouting memes and buzzwords because you have no idea what you're talking about.

>There are probably as many masterpiece animes as there are western cartoons.
American animation is virtually nothing but children's entertainment and adult comedy, and very cheap-looking outside of feature films. Western animation at large has more serious works, but not many. There's also less animation made than in Japan.
>>
>>78980574
thank you spooky ougi
>>
>>79009093
Wonder how much that kind of thing affected how much they put food in their movies.
>>
>>79009128
Well, considering I never even specified TV anime, or even said TV in general, nice strawman.

https://hanime.tv/

You wanna try another argument? This all looks like anime porn to me.
>>
>>78983893
>Most of 4chan is smarter than the average person
>Like 10 boards are in the top 5% of intelligence
lol ok
>>
>>79009181
Hentai is separate from the rest of anime, just like porn in America is separate from television and cinema. Hentai has also diminished significantly since the 80s - early 00s.

Here's what's actually airing this season:
http://anichart.net/winter
>>
>>79009257
You're completely dodging my point. I don't care what is airing on TV over in "muh glorious nippon". I don't even care what's airing over here.

>Hentai is separate from the rest of anime

Hentai is still anime. It's animation from Japan. Anime. There is still a shit ton of anime porn, and it's all trash.
>>
>>79008800
>American character animation is very cartoonish and uses simple designs and camera work.
There's nothing wrong with a cartoony approach to animation, it's not inherently inferior or superior. Also, there are numerous skilled Japanese animators who have a cartoony approach to their work.
Western designs do tend to be simpler, but that allows for animators to put more effort into animating. Frankly, anime could stand to benefit from simpler designs too.
The camerawork in cartoons are simpler since they are supposed to be presented like a stage play, where the full figure of the actor is shown. This is why western animators are like actors, where they have to consider the personalities and emotions and convey it.
>>
>You have never seen ghost in the shell, record of lodoss war, yadda yadda yadda

Yeah, seen 'em all. The animation and art is really nothing to cry home about. I'd rather watch something from France.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgD2ALDhlwc
>>
>>79009327
I've seen better animation in Metropolis.
>>
>>78982600
The irony of this is two fold. I've been watching Zeta Gundam and loving the shit out of it.
>>
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>>79007078
>>
>>79008738
>Does Japan have a gambling problem?
Kinda.
Pachinko is still very big and it's essentially legalized gambling.
>>
As if that's a real quote. Williams fucking adored several American animators.
>>
>>78982362
>No way the west writing is often just shit tier extended toy commercials and thats far more often than the east.
So exactly like Japan wherein all the fig buying otakus are basically paying for the show.
>>
>>79009421
Yeah except the figures are good.
>>
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>>79009432
That's the dumbest retort I've ever heard. Congratulations anon, you've outed yourself as a retarded weeaboo.
>>
>>79009453
lol ok
Have fun with your Funko.
>>
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>>79009453
Well it's less a retort as it is,
"western cartoons are toy commercials, as is anime, but, the toys for anime are actually good."

he's not wrong.
>>
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>>79009473
>implying I buy toys

I'm an adult anon. Nice assumption though.
>>
>>79009473
>implying I litter my house with plastic shit
>>
>>79009480
Also posting that image was a mistake.
Sorry.
>>
>>79009421
>otakus are basically paying for the show
That hasn't been thing since, I think, '09 or so. It's all about fujobucks now.
>>
>>79009308
Porn is still live action... except nobody's ever going to make the argument you're making and apply it to American television and cinema. Because it would be retarded.

Again, hentai is separate from the rest of anime just like porn is separate from other live action in America. It's completely irrelevant to TV and cinema anime. There was a time when it was a little more relevant, when OVAs were still popular, but even then it was a niche thing.

You are making a complete bullshit argument and have no idea what you're talking about.

>>79009311
Cartoon animation is fine when you're making a cartoon. It is not fine when you're trying to make cinematic animation and trying make works in many different genres about many different subject matters, which is what anime is about. Therefore cartoon animation is inherently inferior.

>Western designs do tend to be simpler, but that allows for animators to put more effort into animating.
But it's very limited animation. And it's not like the character designs are somehow separate from the animation; the more complex the designs are, the more difficult and impressive is to animate them, and the better the animation looks (all else being equal).

>The camerawork in cartoons are simpler since they are supposed to be presented like a stage play, where the full figure of the actor is shown. This is why western animators are like actors, where they have to consider the personalities and emotions and convey it.
Yes. This is one of the major limitations of American animation.
>>
>>79009498
Then why are you here watching western cartoons?
>>
>>79009527
Maybe he's not.
Maybe he's here to shitpost.
>>
>>79009513
How could that be the case for shows outside the fujoshi demographic
>>
>>79009540
DVD/BDs newfag.
>>
>>79009540
>>
>>79009401
This. He would never look up to the inferior Japanese animators. The works of the latter lack the 12 principles of animation. Anime violates so many principles of animation—where’s the squash and stretch? The secondary action?
>>
>>79009526
Holy shit, you must be autistic and retarded.

It's anime. I don't care if you don't like this idea, because you're wrong as all hell. Western cartoon porn is porn, and yet somehow it's still a cartoon. The same applies to Japanese cartoon porn. Not only that, but you're comparing anime porn to live action porn as if that helps your argument in any way.

Are you too dense to understand this, or just that autistic that you have to defend your "precious nippon".
>>
>>79009540
Most shows that aren't marketed towards fujos are flopping like flies. It'll all be over soon.
>>
Anything that has female protagonists is inherently shit and anime has tons of those. Ergo, anime is shit.
>>
>>79009623
Don't you talk shit about my Zeta Gundam.
>>
>>79009594
You have no idea what you're talking about.
>>
>>79009629
Mechashit is inherently shit too.
>>
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>>79009623
>>
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>>79009640
Quit it with the funposting.
>>
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>>79009640
ok
>>
>>79009630
Nice comeback. I'll just assume you're too ass flustered to even understand what I'm saying.

Anime is shit. It's all hentai and nobody gives a fuck about the stuff that isn't hentai or shonen otaku virgins.

If you fags want to discuss anime and how "superior" it is to western anime, there's a board specifically designed to contain your autism.

>>>/a/
>>
>>79009675
Spoonfeed baby.
I am a fan of 80's and 90's anime.
>>
>>79009687
>it's all hentai
No.
>nobody gives a fuck
Generalizing, no again.
>western anime
There is no such thing.
>>
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>this whole thread

Those are some top tier bait lads, keep em coming.
>>
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>>79009708
riding bean
>>
>>79009421
Figures are not toys, and the primary factors of commercial success for a show are sales of the source material and disc sales.

>>79009513
Is this the latest meme or something? Fujoshi anime is in the minority.

>>79009594
>It's anime.
"It's live action." The exact same thing can be said about porn. Except, again, nobody is going to say that. Because it's completely retarded.

Hentai has nothing to do with TV and cinema anime, and was a minor thing even during the OVA heydays. You are grasping at straws in a desperate attempt to find something, anything, to attack anime with. And making yourself look like a complete moron in the process.

>>79009687
>nobody gives a fuck about the stuff that isn't hentai
Except it's completely the opposite, with nobody giving a fuck about the hentai. Even ecchi anime is of minor importance compared to everything else.

>or shonen otaku virgins.
What in the hell is this even supposed to mean? Did you just string together words at random?

>If you fags want to discuss anime and how "superior" it is to western anime, there's a board specifically designed to contain your autism.
Again, why aren't you complaining to OP? He's the one who made the thread.

>western anim
The what now?
>>
>>79009729
I think I'm gonna go for stardust memory after I watch zeta gundam/ double zeta gundam.
It was on toonami years back and I never saw it. How was the art and animation in it?
>>
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>>79009770
I'm not sure, I don't watch Gundam. Just stuff like Lupin III.
>>
>>78980574
thank you spooky ougi
>>
>>79009762
>Fujoshi anime is in the minority.
And yet those are in the majority that even manage to cross the 10k+ line in sales. Soon it'll be nothing but fujo pandering.
>>
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>>79009717
Maybe by western anime they meant this?
>>
>>79009762
>Figures are not toys
They're both models of characters. It's the purchasing motive whether the consumer is 8, 18 or 28
>>
>>79009892
This is really reminiscent of gundam.
At least for a second there.
>>
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>>78982268
Pioneer/Geneon's dub of Red Jacket Lupin III was amazing. Shame it'll never be finished.
>>
I think we can all agree that France > Japan > America
>>
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>>79009513
>>
>>79009892
I never liked how that animation looked. Far too choppy.
>>79009907
Japan > France > shit > America
>>
>>79009892
What is this and why do I have to suffer through Rebels instead of this?
>>
>>79009892
What be this
>>
>>79009925
>you will never be a body pillow of a filthy fujo
JUST
>>
>>79009907
Israel > America > France > shit > Japan
>>
>>79009929
>>79009967
Star Wars animation by some filthy weeb who browses /v/.
>>
>>79009977
|
|>
|3
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>>79009925
>Saber
>no teeth
Well, she is British after all.
>>
>>79009929
Its some fanmade thing. Took one guy a few years to animate the whole thing, and it lasted about 7 minutes.
>>
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>this thread is still up
mods pls
>>
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>>79009928
That's okay, at least we got TIE waifu out of it.

>>79009992
I thought he was from /m/.
>>
Does anyone animate in 60 frames per second?
>>
>>79009833
There is less fujoshi anime, so the sales are more concentrated. Recent shows that have broken 10k+ sales include the Monogatari series, Love Live, Attack on Titan, Girls und Panzer, Fate/stay night, Sword Art Online, Cinderella Girls, Shirobako... there are tons.

You are just overreacting out of hysterical fear of fujoshi.

>>79009892
That doesn't look like anime, and wasn't even animated the same way (it was rotoscoped).

>>79009893
Figures are detailed sculptures designed to be displayed. They are much more expensive than toys, and are produced in limited quantities.
>>
>>79010019
He browses /v/ too occasionally.
It looks nice but it just doesn't match up to most older Japanese animation projects like Robot Carnival or Memories. The shading was nice though.
>>
>>79010019
Hows a fucking space pilot of all people get a stereotypical eye scar?

Anything that's going to do that is just going to kill her.
>>
>>79010025
rotoscoping is the new hotness in moonland m8
>>
>>79010054
Yeah but the nips do it good.
>>
>>79010022
It's completely impractical. Even 24 fps is a hellish amount of work.

>>79010054
It's used very rarely.
>>
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>>78980339
No
>>
>>79010054
Watching that was physically sickening. I don't want to see anything like that ever again.
>>
>>79010132
Why? That was good practice for the animator.
>>
>>79010003
>take out the trash
Is Alice in the box?
>>
>>78996894
How is that no studios are rights holders to their property? This is like some mo-town recording industry shit. "pay me a dollar for my songs, and a nickel for every performance? gee thank you so much for the honor of making you rich!"

The industry only exists because those slants have no self value and work themselves to death for someone else's profit. It also sounds like any animator would be better off flipping burgers than doing 'what they love'.

I wonder what would happen if some american VC came in and set up a studio to own its own rights and pay people a living fucking wage.
>>
>>79009400
>legalized gambling
Most places have legalized gambling fambruh.
>>
>>79010158
We don't like gaijins in our country.
>>
>>79010158
It would just be another KyoAni.
>>
>>79010169
It's not technically legal.
But they have a weird work around.
>>
>>79010132
If you want rotoscoping done right watch Aku no Hana.
>>
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>>78987645
TAKESHI KOIKE

I liked him before Redline but honestly he's so underrated.
>>
>>79010216
>watch Aku no Hana.
Nope.
Watch The case of Hana & Alice.
>>
>>79010052
Well, there are probably various imaginative ways it could happen, undercut by the bio saying that that wasn't how it happened. It also doesn't say whether or not anyone in the hangar believes her story.
>>
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>>79010054

The Case of Hana and Alice has some nice rotoscoping.
>>
https://vimeo.com/122710625
>>
>>79009675
>all that forced animation
It'll never compare to Wakfu.
>>
>>79010177
Clearly, they might actually respect their workforce, glorious nipon can't have that.
>>
>>79010258
That wasn't even the best Animator Expo short.
>>
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>>79010235
I always thought they said Takeshi Cortez.
>>
>>79010132
Fortunately it's rare. That scene was probably done for shits and giggles.

>>79010158
The studio is simply hired by a production committee to do the animation production. A studio can also be part of a committee, or start its own committee. It's a question of money. It's expensive to produce an anime. That's why production committees exist. The risk is distributed among the members.

>It also sounds like any animator would be better off flipping burgers than doing 'what they love'.
And yet there they are, animating. If they just wanted money, they wouldn't be animators.

>I wonder what would happen if some american VC came in and set up a studio to own its own rights and pay people a living fucking wage.
You should instead wonder why the American animation industry has gone down the toilet while the anime industry has thrived.

>>79010275
What is "forced animation"?
>>
Koreans are mostly doing all of the shit now anyway.
>>
>>79010177
I'm not gonna make assumptions, but why in anime and manga and other media Japs get so excited when white American celebs go to Japan?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWqbldngFow
>>
>>79010275
>forced animation
What the fuck
>>
>>79010296
Agreed. Hammer Head was the best.
>>
>>78982708
god tier bait
>>
>>79010275
>forced animation
Now now lad, let's keep /a/ memes on /a/, these people won't get it.
>>
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>>79010258
>>79010296
>>79010341
The Objective AEX tier list

>God Tier
Kanon
20min from Nishi-ogikubo station
>Toppest Tier
Robot on the Road
Bubu & Bubulina
>Top Tier
The Bureau of Proto Society
Carnage
Dragon Dentist
Sex and Violence with Machspeed
Hammerhead
I can Friday by Day
>Upper Middle Tier
Comedy Skit 1989
Rapid Rouge
Ultraman
Tomorrow from There
Girl
>Middle Tier
Power Plant no.33
Three Fallen Witnesses
Yamadeloid
ME!ME!ME!
Obake-Chan
>Lower Middle Tier
Casette Girl
Endless Night
Gridman
Ibuseki Yoruni
>Lower Tier
Ragnarok
Iconic Field
The Diary of Ochibi
Hill Climb Girl
>Bottom Tier
Tokio of the Moon's Shadow
Evangelion another impact
Memoirs of Amorous gentlemen
>>
>>79010312
They are only doing some of the work (if you are referring to anime).
>>
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>>79010313
>>
>>79010402
Which one was this from?
>>
>>79010445
Hammerhead.
>>
>>79010302
"thriving" doesn't exactly seem to be the state of affairs. The heads of studios are constantly pessimistic, and there are serious concerns about talent aging out because not enough people want to work like dogs.

Yeah and American 2D animation is stuck on television and in the age ghetto. Princess and the Frog proved to Disney and everyone else that, for whatever reason, you simply make more money on 3D features. So thats the way it is.

My only source of optimism for US animation is Netflix, they're experimenting with what adult swim confirmed years ago, that a market exists for adult oriented animation in the US. The quality of the animation is obviously not top notch, but it's proof that we aren't going to be constrained by what the big studios and cable push out for much longer.
>>
>>79010416
Most animation in general now. Koreans are like the chinese outsourcing of animation.
>>
>>79010497
There's always people moaning about how everything is doomed, yet more and more anime keeps coming out.

>>79010504
Just because American animation is entirely outsourced to (usually) Korea doesn't mean anime is too.
>>
>>79007770
>End of Evangelion
You watch it without seeing the serie first?
Am I suppose to take your opinion seriously?
>>
>>79010504
Korea doesn't draw the keyframes and inbetween frames, if we're talking about anime. They just sorta fill it all in, it's not comparable.
>>
>>79010611
> doesn't mean anime is too
but anime is outsource to korea it all started in 2009 anon
>>
>>79010671
In-betweening means "filling it all in." As far as I can tell, in-betweening is most of the work that gets sent to Korea. However, even in-betweening is still done in Japan.

>>79010681
Why do some people struggle so much with the idea that outsourcing is not a binary state, and that only SOME of the work can be outsourced?
>>
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>>79010681

At least most aren't outsourcing to the Philippines.
>>
>>79010052
Probably from the bar fights that were mentioned.
>>
>>79007078

Now I know your talking shit cause its steam punk that sucks
>>
>>79010275
Wakfu's animation looks like shit
>>
He's wrong simply because anime as well-designed and well-animated as GitS or Cowboy Bebop is the minority. Most anime is purely corporate drivel made to appeal to dumb children or dead-end sexless NEETs.

In spite of shit like Teen Titans Go and Steven Universe existing, there are still many examples of good western animation in the world today.
>>
>>79008655

Anon that posted Summer Wars here top one is mine

Top one is mine
>>
>>78980412
You're right, but the definition of "safe" in Japan is wider than the definition is in America.
>>
>>79010943
>In spite of shit like Teen Titans Go and Steven Universe existing, there are still many examples of good western animation in the world today.

Name some.
>>
>>79010996

A majority of it exists on the internet.
>>
>>79011003
>>
>>79010943
>Most anime is purely corporate drivel made to appeal to dumb children or dead-end sexless NEETs.
These are memes. You have no idea what you're talking about. Do you really think it's a good idea to just blindly repeat anything and everything you hear on the Internet?
>>
>>79009675

Bean and Gun Smith cats are amazing still
>>
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>>79011070
>look at the upcoming 2016 anime roster compiled by /a/
>most of it is magical girl shit, fan service or an attempt to sell toys
>>
>>79011098
Did it have Keit-ai?
If it did, you got memed.
>>
>>79011003
https://youtu.be/0Cw7aAFS5oc

https://youtu.be/DUlg8Y_mLfA

https://vimeo.com/148380343

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftq9-Lt4k_U
>>
>>79008276
>everyone who disagrees with me has low standards or is ignorant
>>
>>78980339
>caring about the opinion of some old weeb

Kek
>>
>>79011098
I think there are three magical girl shows, two of them for children and one of them for adults. And what's the problem with that anyway? Magical girl anime is a staple genre that's been around since the 60s.

Saying that an anime is "fanservice" doesn't make any sense because it doesn't tell us anything about the show. Going by the tags on Anichart, there are only two ecchi shows this season. A few more probably have small amounts of ecchi. And, again, so what?

Shows attempting to sell toys would be mostly daytime shows that are largely not watched by adult fans. Even then, what does it mean that a show is trying to sell toys? It doesn't tell us anything about its quality. Selector Infected was made to promote a card game, and it's a good show. So this is really just a red herring.

The biggest show this season (in the West, anyway) could be Erased (Boku dake ga Inai Machi), a time travel thriller. But you and people like you are of course not going to watch it, or even acknowledge its existence, because it doesn't fit your desired narrative.

>>79011306
What are you talking about?
>>
>>79011098
Unlike the cartoon lineup with deep, well animated, well writen shows like SU

But seriously, fuck you
>>
>>79005022
Hellsing Ultimate is the pinnacle of retardedly fantastic
>>
>>78981461
>Fuck the son though
The whole point of him leaving is that the kids' roles swapped over time. He went fully wild after being a crybaby all his childhood, and the daughter went from practically feral to wanting to be human.
>>
>>79011070

Do you expect anything more from someone who brings up Cowboy Bebop?
>>
>>78980339
>>
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>>79007078
>>
>>79011394
SU is well written. At least the characters are. It's not very plot heavy.
>>
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>>79011748
>>
>>>/a/
>>
>>79011803
When will you people understand that some topics cover multiple boards?
>>
>>79007770
>all of this bait
1/10 you made me reply, if only to point out that it's bait
>>
>>79010132
>>79010054
Somehow, rotoscoping's main issue in a number of cases is the speed. There are loads of scenes where everything seems to move too slowly, like they fucked up the frames per second when transferring it.
>>
>>79011394
>>79011748

Oh god its you again

The autistic SU can that thought SU is the pinnacle of animation
>>
>>79009327
>France has good animation
>that means Japan can't have good animation
>only one country in the world can make good animation

You're a fucking retard. Who the fuck told you Record of Lodoss War has good animation? Probably no one, you just pulled it out of your ass in a deranged retard fit.
>>
>>79011957

*can

Fan

what the fuck auto
>>
>>79011748
As a fan of the show, the writing is very hit or miss. They frequently resort to melodrama at the cost of characterization, especially with Pearl and sometimes Amethyst.
>>
>>78987969

The OST to this is epic
>>
>>79010302
>the American animation industry has gone down the toilet while the anime industry has thrived.

What?
>has become more reliant on a niche market in the past 40 years
>industry still on the work basis of the 1960s
>over saturation of series
>has gained greater stigma from the Japanese general public

How the hell is that thriving?
>>
>>79012611
>has become more reliant on a niche market in the past 40 years
>industry still on the work basis of the 1960s
>over saturation of series
How do any of these things indicate that anime isn't thriving?

>has gained greater stigma from the Japanese general public
The stigma has greatly reduced, and "otaku" anime and culture have become more popular and accepted. For example:
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2016-01-12/love-live-girls-tie-on-aprons-for-family-restaurant-collab/.97500
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2014-12-01/hello-kitty-cafe-teams-up-with-monogatari-series/.81627
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2013-11-16/girls-und-panzer-storms-oarai
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-01-15/girls-and-panzer-film-tops-900-million-yen/.97608
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-01-01/top-10-grossing-domestic-japanese-films-of-2015-listed/.97030 (Love Live at 9th place)
>>
>>79012932
I forgot to say that daytime anime, that children and families watch, is the same as ever and there's no stigma against it (or against anime movies like Doraemon). The stigma against otaku has weakened since the 90s.
>>
>>78980339
sadly, yes. yes he is.
americans like to pinch pennies and do everything on a computer. no matter everything looks soulless.
>>
>>78982708
Holy shit this is so cringy, why people like this?
>>
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>>79011303
>That prequel
God damn. That was heavy.
>>
>>78982708
This show is so fucking bad, good god. No wonder its banned on /co/ most of the time.
>>
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>Japoinise animation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy0E-1MD0bw
>>
>>79002974
>The Japs could've totally gone for a more realistic aesthetic in their art

But they didn't, you piece of shit.
>>
>>78980339
>Japs perfected 2D with akira
and it's all been downhill from there.
>>
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>>78980339
>>79014149
>Mastered 2D animation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EKTw50Uf8M
>>
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>>79014149
>taking a gag short seriously
>>
>>79014953
>Japs perfected Western friendliness with Akira
Fixed.

Why should anime be defined by just one work that all other anime has to aspire to be like? One of the great things about anime is its diversity. I've never seen anyone insist that, say, American cinema was perfected by one movie and every movie should be exactly like it.
>>
>>78985740

"animated"

This is rotoscoped.
>>
>>78983893
Its a goddamn opinion chart with number slapped on it.
>>
>>79015254
It's not, and it doesn't even look like rotoscoping.

It's amazing what can be done with animation when you work on more than just singing and dancing from a mostly fixed perspective.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x28l37_you-re-under-arrest-op_fun
>>
>>79015189
It is diverse. But I think there's an edge in western style in that it is a lot more diverse.
>>
>>79015574
>all western cartoons are musicals
>>
>>78980339
Durr, I have a feeling this isn't really what was said. Heyuk
>>
>>79015608
Western animation has barely a fraction of the diversity anime does.
>>
>>79015724
I was obviously referring to Disney and similar animation.
>>
>>78980339
How many 2D animated films did America make last year Vs. How many animated films did Japan make last year?

You have your answer.

The last major American 2D animated film that I can think of off the top of my head is Winnie the Pooh by Disney.
>>
>>78980412
>what are capeshits
>animation anything to do with content
for fucks sake
>>
>>79015751
How so?

I can mostly tell when something is an anime.

A cartoon on the other hand I see so varied. It can be as hideous as Rick and Morty to beautiful as Over the Garden Wall.
>>
>>79007078
>>
>>79008662
Lip syncing goes a long way at not making characters look lifeless.
>>
>>79016020

The exact same thing can be said about anime. Compare >>78980978 to >>78990642 to >>79009653 to >>79014149
>>
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>>79016020
>How so?
>>
>>78983370
>Indie comics don't exist
>>
>>79016162
But, my point is. If you had shown me a picture from every anime to have existed, along with every western cartoon, I think I could likely guess at most of the ones that are anime.
>>
>>78980339
That's true though Americans never did because companies went "make it cheap as possible" and 3D IS THE WAY
>>
>>79008276
>Even if that were true, it would still be vastly more subtle and intelligent than American voice acting.
Look at domestic projects with a more serious tone and suddenly all the voice actors you wrote off as broad and unsubtle end up proving otherwise.
>>
>>79016310
Plus, get it from Canada.
>>
>>79016324
I thought we weren't supposed to count videogames
>>
>>78984486
Action lines are the visual equivalent of the Johnny Test whipcrack.
>>
>>79016164
>non shonen doesn't exist
>>
>>79016020
I thought you were talking about content.

As far as appearance goes, what might make Western animation seem more varied is that it has no recognizable or consistent character design style like most of anime does. But if you consider animation, background art, camera work, cinematography and color design, then it's not necessarily so varied anymore.

>>79016135
Considering the whole moe phenomenon, I don't think lifelessness is much of an issue for anime.

>>79016324
And what happens if you compare them to anime with a more serious tone? Hmm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X5H_y4secc#t=4m44s
>>
>>79016511
Shonen isn't a genre, it's a demographic.

>>79016532
Oh, content wise, yeah.
>>
>>79008276
>It's anime that does, roughly speaking, everything live action does.
Is that why anime translated into live action is just as embarrassing to watch as the Fairly Odd Parents movie?
>>
>>79016532
>>79016564
Oh, and that other stuff too, I guess. I don't pay that well attention to that other stuff.
>>
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This thread is filled with weeaboos in denial.

Anime is about as varied as Japanese people. Hint: they arr rook same. Sure there's some variation, but the overwhelming majority is black straight hair, black eyes, flat face, short.

And the dubbing in anime is atrocious.
>>
>>79016611
>I have never seen an anime in my life
>>
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>>79016611
I'm getting really bored of seeing the same image with the same filename over and over whenever anime is mentioned on this board.
>>
>>78983550
>Don't say such things!
>Is this the true power of ________!?
And these are idioms how?

But anyhow, pseudo-Engrish like that can be solved with competent translation which unfortunately seems to be rare in dubbed dialogue.
>>
Weeaboos can't even accept how oriental narrative is broken and unrelatable to anyone with a mental age past of 10.
They can't have that one flaw.
>>
>>79016162
most of them look like sailor moon actually. The rest still looks a lot like anime.
>>
>>79016728

What does anime "look like"? Because most of those don't look similar in style.
>>
>>79016701
Your response is seriously one step away from all that "psh nothing personnel" junk.
>>
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>>79016728
>most of them look like sailor moon actually
>>
>>79016781
what
>>
>>79016767
Exactly like that.
Can you tell a cartoon might be French, Canadian, Brazilian, Mexican or American just by looking at it? No.
Can you tell something is an anime just by looking at it? Yes, in every case.
>>
>>79016591
What does that have to do with anything? There aren't even many anime that got live action versions. There are however tons of manga that have both a live action and anime version.

>>79016611
Again, anime covers just about everything live action does (and things that live action doesn't). No other form of animation on the planet can say the same.

https://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=2695
https://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=4476
https://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=10779
https://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=9127
https://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=10889
https://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=99
https://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=8211
https://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=438
https://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=7949
https://anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=10400

Etc.

>>79016711
Great meme.

>>79016862
You can usually tell something is anime, but at the same anime is visually very varied. These are not mutually exclusive.
>>
>>79016767
Eyes are two arches that don't meet (compare with cartoon eyes that are usually ovals or circles)
Hair is spiky (compare to cartoon hair that is often bulbous)
Nose is a single line or tiny (compare with cartoon nose which is usually thumb-shaped or ball-shaped)
Linework is very thin (compare with the more varied line weight of cartoons)
Lighting is very dramatic and constrasting (compare with the flat shading of most cartoons)
Tiny chins (compare with huge chins or no chins of cartoons)
etc etc etc

There are plenty of visual characteristics that are common in anime that are uncommon in cartoons and vies-versa.
>>
>>79016925
And yet, from a stylistic and narrative point of view, they're all very homogenous.
>>
>>79016949

For every example of those, you can pretty easily find a counterexample that doesn't feature that in anime.

>>79016976

You have to be blind if you think those examples are homogeneous.
>>
>>79016820
"yawn you bore me kiddo" is the newest and hottest of the "draws katana" edge shit people are doing.
>>
>>79016976
No, they're not. You're just repeating maymays and have no idea what you're talking about.
>>
>>79016949
Giant Robo literally averts all of this.
Get educated.
>>
>>78993487
This is one of the few times I agree with John K.
>>
>>79017060
Well, it's true. Posting the same shit over and over is fucking boring. I don't know what you want from me.
>>
>>79016925
I guess stating a fact about narrative tradition and style on Japanese culture is a meme now?! Or maybe just saying "good meme" when you can't really contest a point is the meme.

I've seen serious anime movies, I enjoy them.
The usual weeb argument "you don't know anime", "you haven't seen the right anime" doesn't apply.
It undeniable that when it comes to dialog they seem to be written by aliens. Also tend to insult your intellect by stating the obvious many times or having to describe emotions in a caricature way. Fine, it's a different culture, but that makes it confined to that culture.
Weebs can't see this because they condition themselves to act like animes, when you talk to one you can even tell how they adopt vices in expression to be moronic and inexpressive. This is not exclusive to anime, asian movies and novels suffer the same.
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>>79009928
France>America>shit>Japan
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>>78990896
Kickheart was just awesome to watch. Outside of the nun sequence of whipping that is. That was just uncomfortable to watch. The animation on the whole was very well done though.
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>>79017233
It's the same old "anime is for manchildren xD" meme. It also features the strange meme of talking about "Asia" or the "Orient" when the topic is clearly limited to Japan and Japan only.

>The usual weeb argument "you don't know anime", "you haven't seen the right anime" doesn't apply.
There are people who've seen over a thousand anime and still don't understand anything about it and go around repeating stupid memes like the only thing they knew about anime was Dragon Ball. So having watched a couple of anime really doesn't mean anything.

>Also tend to insult your intellect by stating the obvious many times or having to describe emotions in a caricature way.
This actually describes American animation. It's common for people to project the flaws of American animation onto anime.

>Weebs can't see this because they condition themselves to act like animes
Weebs are at this point more of a bogeyman than a real thing. 99,99% of people accused of being weebs are not weebs.
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>>79017386
You are a weeb for not being able to see the blatant style of over simplification and grunts and noises to express emotion on Japanese tradition.
I mean, it's a fact of japanese language itself, how you can deny that is absolutely complete isolation from reality.

It's not the same old manchildren meme, it has nothing to do with that. It's about being able to express yourself in an universal manner.

Your little animu bubble is really impenetrable, huh.
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>>79016532
>Dub
>DOMESTIC PROJECTS
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>>79017501
I'm not a weeb just because I don't share your delusional animephobia.

>It's about being able to express yourself in an universal manner.
What are different languages
What are different cultures

>>79017557
The video title says it's in both English and Japanese, and the video link contains a timecode linking to the Japanese version. One of us is acting like a moron, but it isn't me.
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>Richard Williams image
>Not one mention of Thief and the Cobbler

Most of the animators on it were American. Hell, Williams always referred to Ken Harris as a master.
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>>79017233
Most anime fans have some form of autism, they have difficulty reading micro expressions and need emotional states explained to them.
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>>79010421
>JOHN will never get excited about adjusting your belt
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>>79017084
>Giant Robo literally averts all of this.
No.
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>>79017597
>Demonstrating anything by comparing a DUB to the original language
I'm sorry you're an inbred hick who can't read anon

do·mes·tic
dəˈmestik/
adjective
adjective: domestic
2. existing or occurring inside a particular country; not foreign or international.
"the current state of US domestic affairs"
synonyms: national, home, internal
"the domestic car industry"
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>>79017002
>For every example of those, you can pretty easily find a counterexample that doesn't feature that in anime.
And yet collectively they form a distinct style. It's like saying rap isn't a style because not all rap songs have all the hallmarks of the rap style.

Yes there's a rap style. Yes there's an anime style. The existence of variations does not make the style disappear
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>>79018152
I see you haven't watched more than 30 minutes then.
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>>79018339
Does it matter? Even if the style changes after 30 minutes (it doesn't) it's still present. Maybe you replied to the wrong post?
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>>79018795
Yes it does you moron.
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To the weebs counter-arguing every post insulting anime in this thread:

How would you personally improve the state of western animation? What are your favorite examples of western animation (you obviously visit animation threads on /co/ with some level of knowledge on the subject)?
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>Cartoons might look worse than anime, but they tell better stories!
Like what?

The only really good cartoons I can think of off the top are my head are BTAS, Freakazoid, and ATLA

With anime I can say Cowboy Bebop, Madoka, Ghost in the Shell, Fate/Zero, Psycho Pass, Lain, Neon Genesis Evangelion...

And I'm a casual.

Now I don't think the reason anime tells better stories is due to anything special

I think it's just that the quantity of anime versus the quantity of cartoons is larger.

Like, we get five new cartoons a season AT BEST

With anime you got like forty fucking shows a season

Most of which are shit but goddamn the more shots you take the more likely you are to hit
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>>79018979
Get better story-boarders. Better directors. God forbid, maybe even bring a few writers on board. Enough of this "collabarative story-telling bullshit", y'all motherfuckers need structure.

I'm inclined towards Avatar the Last Airbender, incidentally, I view the Legend of Korra as everything wrong with Western Animation.

The goal shouldn't be to "look cool" or tackle "modern themes", the goal should be to make a complete coherent story, the music, the art, the writing, and animation coming together in harmony.

Also, and this is directed towards Steven Universe and Adventure Time - IF YOU ARE TRYING TO TELL A CONTINOUS STORY YOU CAN'T DISH IT OUT IN ELEVEN MINUTE CHUNKS

A series can be long and it can be short, but an episode can't be eleven minutes long if you're trying to world-build. It just contrasts with the notion of trying to make something big and expansive.
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>>79010080
are you retard?
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>>79020113
why do you ask
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>>79018828
That was rhetoric. It doesn't matter because the style is still present.

By the way, does the style change after the 30 minute mark? Can you post a screenshot of this vastly different style?
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>>79006973

got rektified >>78980978
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>>79020244
>hasn't even watched it
>judges it as one that doesn't avert the standard tropes based on one screenshot
i shouldn't even bother replying.
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>>79019429
>I'm inclined towards Avatar the Last Airbender, incidentally, I view the Legend of Korra as everything wrong with Western Animation.

Avatar should have continued Aang's story or gone back to a previous avatar
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>>79020308
Still the exact same style.

Maybe you're just replying to the wrong post and you don't understand what you're replying to.
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>>79018979
Fund Projects like Redline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t26m_Q6ENo
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Richard Williams was the greatest animator that ever lived.

It doesn't matter where the person was born, it just matters on how much time they're willing to spend perfecting something.
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>>78980339
Shouldn't have taken 430 posts but here's proof that OP's full of shit if anybody still needed it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSKsQ0XciJY
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>>79020366
The only one who brought up style was you. The original post doesn't mention anything about style, you retard.
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>>79020379
>Richard Williams was
He still IS. Did you not see the Prologue preview?
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>>79019251
>And I'm a casual

you spelled wrong retard
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>>79020409
Thought he died a few years ago.

Maybe I got him mixed up with some comic faggot.
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>>79020386
We know, but we like seeing anime retards try to justify their medium's lack of creativity.
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>>79020379
>greatest animator that ever lived
thanks for the laugh
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>>79020450
He just got nominated for an Oscar. Motherfucker's on top of his game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G78qA9oreNE
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>>79020487
... You say this when the American animation medium is dead in the water creatively?
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>>79020487
How is anime lacking creativity?
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>>79020401
Did you even read the posts you're replying to?
>>79020401
>>79020366
>>79020308
>>79020244
>>79018828
>>79018795
>>79018339
>>79018152
>>79017084
>>79016949
>>79016767
>>79016728
>>79016162
>>79016020
>>79015751
>>79015608
>>79015189
>>79014953


Here's the entire reply chain for your benefit.

You stepped in the middle of a discussion about the visual style of anime, and you went completely mad and off the rails because you just didn't read it.
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>>79020571
Reported.
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>>79020571
This post >>79016949 is the only one that I as talking about. Stop trying to shove in your style shit when most of characters in the show look nothing like you describe them to be.
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>this is what Japs consider "animation"
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>>79020553
By being very homogenous.
Like 80s action flicks, there are some high notes, but the vast majority is the same recycled garbage.

Now the problem with anime fans, is that they praise this garbage and can't see its flaws and repetitiveness and lack of creativity. 80s action flick fans will usually admit that they're into samey garbage, or horror film fans, or rom-com fans. But anime fans idolize anime far beyond what's healthy and that in turn encourages anime creators to produce more samey trash.
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>>79020487
There are only 2 kinds of cartoons made anymore. It's either badly a drawn lol so randumb kids show or lazily animated regurgitated Simpsons formula.
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>>79020681
>By being very homogenous.
Elaborate, because this is already untrue.
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>>79020640
>This post >>79016949 is the only one that I as talking about. Stop trying to shove in your style shit when most of characters in the show look nothing like you describe them to be.

Two arches for eyes - check.
Spiky hair - check.
Dot/line nose - check.
Very thin linework - check.
Dramatic lighting - check.
Tiny chins - check.

How is it again that Giant Robo doesn't fit this description?
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>>79020680
That looks fine to me.
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>>79020746
>Dramatic lighting
What the fuck does this mean? How is this a bad thing?
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>>79020738
>Elaborate
>>79016949

That's the visual gist.

There's also the storytelling/writing sameness, and the voice-acting sameness.
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>>79020775
>How is this a bad thing?
I didn't say it's bad. I said it's repetitive.

>What the fuck does this mean?
https://www.google.com/search?q=dramatic+lighting&source=lnms&tbm=isch

Basically it means start contrast between light and shadow, which is nearly always the case in anime. Even when there's no bright light source, there's going to be bright reflections (especially on boobs), and the face area is always going to have sharp shadows as if it's brightly lit from some direction.

Really classic example in this clip >>79020680
(except no boob lights)

Look at the almost-naked guy standing in direct sunlight. For some reason the lighting on his body and face is very dramatic, very sharp contrast between light and dark. Why? Anime!
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>>79020788
>voice acting sameness
Not true, if you aren't a native speaker you can't comment on this.
>storytelling/writing sameness
And the west isn't the same with what it wants to tell? Don't make me laugh.
As for >>>79016949, that's just how it is. The entire industry became what i was from Tezuka, which he had got from Disney. The thing is if you actually looked into this, most character designers are able to differentiate themselves from others by how they animate.
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>>79020899
>Why? Anime!
Or maybe because it looks cool? It's complicated to draw that as is, I'd take it over having flat colouring.
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>>78980339
No fantasia is better
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>>79010313
>BRATU PITU
>EMINEMU
>PAREESU HIRUTON
I laugh but I would suck at speaking Nipponese too
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>>79016646
And that's not a good thing you weeb faggot?
>>
So why, exactly, are weebs so incredibly obnoxious anyway?

The only explanation I can come up with is that they feel shunned by their own society and they think they can go take refuge in someone elses, and whenever some reminder of their own society comes up they get all pissy and upset. But if America's rejected you, then an incredibly rigid, unbending, individual-unfriendly country like Japan is going to chew you up, spit you out and take a shit on your remains.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2FGgYp6mdk
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>>79017233
I think weebs can't see it because they have some form of autism/assburgers, and having characters outright explain what emotion they're feeling would be very comforting to them. It's the exact same reason why autists like Thomas the Tank Engine so much, the trains hold their extremely exaggerated expressions for long periods of time while the narrator outright states what each is feeling, allowing autists to grasp the emotions behind it. Ironically that makes these extremely shallow caricatures look extremely deep to the autist in comparison to any other medium, because they cannot grasp the depth in regular expressions.
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