Now that he's done with them all, can we finally admit that Hickman's Avengers, Infinity, and Secret Wars were pretty
The story of Hickman's career.
Big build up, lots of hype, entire company behind him, bending over backward to give him anything he wants.
End result? Pile of shit no one will care about in a month and won't sell a TPB.
If I didn't know better I'd suspect Hickman was just trying to ruin Marvel IP from the inside.
Everything he's worked on has been irrevocably changed to the point of no longer being a comic. Captain America's an old man, the Fantastic Four are gone, Black Bolt is 'evil'
Fantastic Four is cancelled forever.
Captain America is out of the picture.
Dozens of Avenger teams.
Literally no bad guys who aren't easily trounced by heroes (since Hickman's one of those who believes badguys should be cosmic alien forces instead of sociopaths).
And all said cosmic forces should be defeated offscreen and have zero charisma.
Pic not related.
>Fantastic Four is cancelled forever.
>Captain America is out of the picture.
He's in two different titles.
>Dozens of Avenger teams.
3 or 4
>Literally no bad guys who aren't easily trounced by heroes (since Hickman's one of those who believes badguys should be cosmic alien forces instead of sociopaths).
Only limited to his run, not the MU as a whole
>Only limited to his run, not the MU as a whole
And the only villains in X-men are former X-men and humans.
there were tons of avengers teams before all this.
this wasnt the first, or second time cap has passed the cape on
noone said the four were done. and with ben and johnny still roaming around, it makes me think even less of that idea. and i dont know what the hell the last one is about
Ben is going to be so insulted when he finds out Reed decided not to bring him along on his multiverse creation voyage.
In all seriousness, between his lack of presence in his F4/FF run and his terribly trite role in Secret Wars, I don't think Hickman really likes Grimm all that much.
Hickman really sucks at endings, he's good at build up but it always falls apart towards the end. The run wasn't fantastic but it wasn't awful, it was just somewhere in the middle.
There's actually less Avengers teams now than there were during Marvel NOW. Right now we have:
During NOW we had:
Reed praised Doom for saving multiverse fragments, but criticised him for making everyone his prisoner/slave on his marco-Latveria instead of using his unlimited power to fix/restore the multiverse.
>Black Bolt is 'evil'
He isn't mustache twirling evil he just does bad things for the sake of inhumans and he has been doing that since the graphic novel. He was going to let Ahura be aborted for the sake of his people, he sent people on suicide missions without their knowledge, and of course the original T-bomb. Black Bolt does a lot of fucked up things for his people.
He had a 60 issue pitch all planned and ready to go for pre-Nu52 LOSH. It'd probably be unusable now though.
His favorite comic character is Blue Devil though so I imagine he'd want to write a Black and Blue book.
You can't shit up something that was cancelled because of shit sales.
Yeah, I remember 60 issue pitch and Blue Devil from some other thread months ago. He has some groovy taste, desu.
Yeah, but eventually means "once the rights expire or Perlmutter lifts the embargo." The latter won't happen until they either get the rights back or someone replaces Perlmutter.
Yes it'll definitely happen EVENTUALLY, but they're still shelved for the foreseeable future.
If you don't think that Hickman's run on the Fantastic Four was goddamned incredible, it's obvious that the problem isn't Hickman, it's you.
That said, the Avengers and Secret Wars stuff he ran was plagued by over-ambition and far too many characters.
His Ultimates were pretty goddamn solid as well.
>If you don't think that Hickman's run on the Fantastic Four was goddamned incredible, it's obvious that the problem isn't Hickman, it's you.
The ending got a bit muddled. The War of the Four Cities or whatever turned into a huge clusterfuck where half a dozen enemies intent on destroying Earth all canceled out. And then it turned out it was all a plan to save Reed from being targeted by the mad Celestials.
>Ex Nihilo, Abyss and Aleph were pointless
>Terrax was pointless
>Pod was pointless
>Validator was pointless
>Mapmakers were pointless
>Shang Chi clones were pointless
>Builders were pointless
>Thane was pointless
>Wolverine was pointless
>Spider-Man was pointless
>Falcon was pointless
>Cannonball and Smasher getting together and having a kid was pointless
>That whole time travel arc with the future Avengers and the Kangs teaming up was pointless
Actually, in the end EVERYTHING in Hickman's run was pointless. A bunch of shit hapened, then everything died and none of it mattered.
And if anyone says "that's the point", then what was the point in reading it? More importantly, it could have at least been interesting, but it wasn't, it was boring and pretentious
>Unattainably high standards detected
Nigga, we're talking about comic books, and the Big 2 at that. Not fucking Trotsky or Vonnegut.
And seriously, if you didn't like the FF/F4 run Hickman did, the problem doesn't lie with him, it lies with you.
He's still the CEO of Marvel and holds absolute control over it. As part of deal, Perlmutter was to maintain control over the running of marvel and no one from Disney could make any demands/changes that he didn't first approve.
Perlmutter only ever sold to Disney because he was going to use it as leverage to try and gain control of Disney from the inside. Feige's little power play severely hurt Perlmutter's chances of that though.
Man, I grew up in the 90's. I remember when Image split off from Marvel, and everything was try hard edgy bullshit. Comics then were terrible.
Hickman brought an epic overarching plot (F4) and lighthearted fun (FF) and managed to balance and eventually converge the two, semi-gracefully.
And as opposed to his Avengers run, he actually brought it to an above decent close.
Not to mention, Fantastic Four was for the most part pretty terrible, bottom of the barrel stuff before he came along, seeing as how their family dynamic didn't fit into the EXTREME or secretly-dark and wannabe-mature mold of the 90's and early to mid 2000's.
Also, his run on the Ultimates was pretty fucking cool. The art helped a lot too, though I can't give him credit for that.
Wew Marvel. Great idea having the very last page of one of your most important events FOUR FUCKING MONTHS before it ended.
But I expect this kind of shit so I don't really mind anymore. The one real gripe I have with the event is Phoenixclops doing basically nothing and then fucking off after the event.
I mean, even Elsa Bloodstone got some pages. That's something.
in the end I don't know what to make of it. I'm left kinda unfulfilled. He handled all the characters fairly well, and he had some great artists and big ideas,
but what was the point?
I liked the first arc. I liked infinity. I liked the Betrayal Arc or whatever when they went into the future-- it was fun enough but nothing special.
Secret Wars was a hot mess-- a gorgeous mess-- a promising mess-- but a hot mess none the less.
>Multiversity was Secret Wars done right
I'm just surprise he messed it up so much. Morrison had already finished Multiversity by the time Hickman was doing Secret Wars.
At least copy from his better.
Technically I would put Squaadron Supreme and Ultimates as under the Avengers Umbrella despite not being technically Avenger teams.
That wasn't a team really. That was more a backup title to develop some of the secondary neglected characters from his Avengers title. Ditto for Assemble as the predecessor iirc.
Yes they absolutely were. Just because we got gems like Starman or Thunderbolts doesn't mean the mayority of it wasn't shit. The early to mid 90's were a dark age for comics. Marvel almost fucking died, for crying out loud.
I would concede if you gave me an example, and really only if that example were certain runs of X-Men, the Maxx or the end of Gaiman's Sandman during the first half of the 90's.
Aside from that you're not addressing any of my points with any substance, so you're argument and opinion are invalid.
So I'm gonna ask, what wasn't terrible in the 90's? Spawn? Wildstorm? Valiant? The Justice League? Kyle Raynor as Green Lantern? The leather jacket Avengers?
And yet at the same time, aside from the awful Death of Superman, DC was the least hyped and discussed comic company of the 90's.
If we're gonna be completely honest, the terrible quality of comics in the 90's are why anime became so popular in America at that time, to the point where it stole enough consumers to nearly crash the industry.
All I hear is how horrible your taste is. Anime became popular because you could actually see characters bleed while cartoons couldn't even show guns being fired, and then the number of action cartoons shrank like crazy.
Vertigo was good in the 90's, completely agree.
But let's be honest with ourselves, the mainstream comic industry was awful. It was over saturated with EXTREME and Liefeld and Jim Lee.
And when it boils down to it, the industries main focus, the teenage boy market, it was pretty awful.
Luckily, the market geared toward older readers allowed for good writers to eventually find their way to mainstream titles, ending the rut that was the 90's and early to mid 2000's.
The path leading to the event was way more interesting than the Secret Wars itself. Marvel got a reboot, the creators got a temporary playground to play on.
Civil War ain't my favourite event, but at least it had an impact and some consequences, which Secret Wars completely lacks (apart from sneaking towards the MCU).
Did I say anything about liking anime? I think anime (and manga) was the breaking point for the American comic industry.
When all this happened the powers that be had two choices, get better fast or too over and die. Luckily they decided for the former and eventually got good.
Anime became popular because the comic industries market preferred the lightheartedness that came along with the action in shows like Dragonball as opposed to the constant edginess of Liefeld's Youngblood and McFarlane's Spawn.
>I just wish that they'd release what's left of S.H.I.E.L.D.
Hickman finished writing it. Weaver finished drawing it. They were supposed to be out in September after Secret Wars ended, but then the delays happened.
But now that SW is over, Marvel doesn't really have an excuse not to release them. Those two issues have been done for MONTHS. The only thing that could possibly not be done is the coloring and lettering, but since it hasn't been solicited yet, that's still minimum 3 months before they can release them. That's more than enough time to color and letter two issues.
Even Hickman's F4 stories had the same problem of having semi-decent build up and complete clusterfuck once it's time to tie up the plot threads for the climax. Hickman's writing style is all about giving you snippets of stuff and concepts that by the first glance seem intriguing, thus conning you to keep reading more and then stringing you along with the promise of it all making sense in the end, only for his house of cards to come crashing down when 90% of all his build up ends up being relatively superfluous to the climax. And he's absolutely shit at writing character lead stories and using supporting characters in meaningful way, that's why the stories are driven by these giant plot devices and most of the characters are there just as background noise, occasionally doing some plot related task before going back to being wall paper.
I can easily see the large outlines of this past run as a really shitty LOSH story, because he'd fail to fill it in with character interactions--we'd get the same "people standing around with arms crossed" and lots of montages of Legionnaires flying around, and cosmic shit like the Infinite Man with none of the heart.
And it would ultimately shove most of the characters into the background, save the founders, one or two of his favorites, and maybe his new character.
Probably like an avatar of Ekron or something.
>Image split off from Marvel = 1992
>Hickman ... (F4) ... (FF) = 2010
What the fuck are yo even talking about? Waid's run is heads above Hickman's and so is Straczynski's first arc
>Fantastic Four is cancelled forever.
Fucking lol. Even if that were true, its not his fault. Thats because of Marvel v Fox beef.
>Captain America is out of the picture.
Yet both Steve and Sam are still there and active
>Dozens of Avenger teams.
Implying there wasn't a bunch already
>Literally no bad guys who aren't easily trounced by heroes
Plenty of villains actually
Don't forget the Cabal. All Maximus does is show up with a laughable disguise and an army out of nowhere, all Thanos does is walk up to the wall and convince it to leave, all Maker does is try to turn Reed into a monkey only to have Owen turn Maker into pizza, all Namor does is snipe quips at T'Challa, and the super original OC Donut Steel characters Proxima Midnight and Corvus Glaive do jack fucking shit as they get captured off-screen.
Oh and don't forget Phoenix Egg Cyclops who gave one lame monologue and died like a complete bitch.
>Proxima wields a spear forged for her by Thanos; created from a collapsing sun trapped in space-time acting and wielded as both a star and a supernova at once. Whence thrown it becomes a lance of multi-arcing energy carrying the weight, speed and near infinite mass of it's template sake. An arm which never misses its mark acting as both a lethal projectile with absolute constant velocity as well as a form of energy netting which turns jet black after ensnaring a target weighing them down using the heft of said singularity effectively immobilizing them, its effects was potent enough to match and bind the virtually limitless strength the Hulk as well as revert him back to Bruce Banner once upon drawing it out of him
The fact that it all lead up to a character story involving Doctor Doom and the Fantastic Four means that Secret Wars was the GOAT event.
Eat shit x-fags. Eat shit avengers. The Fantastic Four birthed the universe and they recreated it as well.
It was ok, the ending was disappointing and underwhelming, but I liked New Avengers tremendously. Still better than 90% of shit we're getting now.
Both Morrison and Multiversity are pretty shit though
>too deep 4u
Nah, I don't want the same story-archetype-trope bullshit wanked several years non-stop.