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Now that he's done with them all, can...
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Now that he's done with them all, can we finally admit that Hickman's Avengers, Infinity, and Secret Wars were pretty awful?
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>>78978477
Nah, it was alright.
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>>78978477
The story of Hickman's career.

Big build up, lots of hype, entire company behind him, bending over backward to give him anything he wants.

End result? Pile of shit no one will care about in a month and won't sell a TPB.
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>>78978525
If I didn't know better I'd suspect Hickman was just trying to ruin Marvel IP from the inside.

Everything he's worked on has been irrevocably changed to the point of no longer being a comic. Captain America's an old man, the Fantastic Four are gone, Black Bolt is 'evil'
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There were so many plot threads that didn't go anywhere! What was the point of Smasher's and Cannonball's child? There were so many hints that he would be important, but nothing!
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>>78978477
Hickman's Avengers were his LoSH wank.
Hickman's New Avengers were FF wank.
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>>78978477

It was a whole lot of nothing happening.

New Avengers was pretty decent though.
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>>78978590
He really did leave the Marvel Universe in a worse place than it started.
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>>78978590
>Captain America's an old man
hold up, last I checked, that wasn't his doing, but he ran with it anyway.
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>>78978525
You're retarded if you think secret wars won't sell any trades
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>>78978477
Shit would be goat if Cap's time skipping odyssey was the culmination of the whole fucking thing. Nothing ever came close to that.
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>>78978802

how so?
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>>78978899
But nothing happened during it.
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>>78978945
Neither did anything afterwards. That was at least cool.
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>>78978910
Fantastic Four is cancelled forever.
Captain America is out of the picture.
Dozens of Avenger teams.
Literally no bad guys who aren't easily trounced by heroes (since Hickman's one of those who believes badguys should be cosmic alien forces instead of sociopaths).
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>>78978477
Best event-story-wise and Avenger in like 10 years dude.
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>>78979017
And all said cosmic forces should be defeated offscreen and have zero charisma.

Pic not related.
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>>78979017
>Fantastic Four is cancelled forever.
Yeah, sure
>Captain America is out of the picture.
He's in two different titles.
>Dozens of Avenger teams.
3 or 4
>Literally no bad guys who aren't easily trounced by heroes (since Hickman's one of those who believes badguys should be cosmic alien forces instead of sociopaths).
Only limited to his run, not the MU as a whole
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>>78979069
>Only limited to his run, not the MU as a whole
And the only villains in X-men are former X-men and humans.
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>>78979017

there were tons of avengers teams before all this.

this wasnt the first, or second time cap has passed the cape on

noone said the four were done. and with ben and johnny still roaming around, it makes me think even less of that idea. and i dont know what the hell the last one is about
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>>78979104
The villains in Uncanny X-men are the Dark Riders, who are inhuman followers of Apocalypse.

Or, arguably, the Uncanny X-men themselves.
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>>78979111
Ben is going to be so insulted when he finds out Reed decided not to bring him along on his multiverse creation voyage.

In all seriousness, between his lack of presence in his F4/FF run and his terribly trite role in Secret Wars, I don't think Hickman really likes Grimm all that much.
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>>78979157

he had a bigger role than johnny in secret wars.
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>>78979124
One comic bucks the trend, woo.
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>>78979157
The f4 to Hackman is reed doom franklin and val
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>>78978477
It was alright, nothing stellar but not horrible either.
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>>78978477
Hickman really sucks at endings, he's good at build up but it always falls apart towards the end. The run wasn't fantastic but it wasn't awful, it was just somewhere in the middle.
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>>78979157
So sw ended with reed creating new worlds just like doom created battleworld? I dont get how he was the bad guy
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>>78979058
Multiversity was Secret Wars done right. Hardly surprising seeing Hickman is just bargain bin Morrison.
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>>78979111
There's actually less Avengers teams now than there were during Marvel NOW. Right now we have:
>ANAD Avengers
>New Avengers
>Uncanny Avengers
>A-Force

During NOW we had:
>Avengers
>New Avengers
>Mighty Avengers
>Uncanny Avengers
>Avengers World
>Avengers Arena/Undercover
>Avengers Assemble
>Young Avengers
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>>78978607
Ex Nihilo turned the Earth into a living organism with his snot-rape bombs. It did nothing.

At least he and his family managed to turn one of the Beyonders into a tree. Woo-hoo.
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>>78979157
He likes him way more than Johnny. Johnny got written out of half of Hickman's F4/FF then proceeded to also get written out of Secret Wars.
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>>78979676
Reed praised Doom for saving multiverse fragments, but criticised him for making everyone his prisoner/slave on his marco-Latveria instead of using his unlimited power to fix/restore the multiverse.
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>>78978477
Yes.
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>>78978477
Now that he's no longer Marvel exclusive I fear that he'll shit up DC.
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>>78978590
>Black Bolt is 'evil'
He isn't mustache twirling evil he just does bad things for the sake of inhumans and he has been doing that since the graphic novel. He was going to let Ahura be aborted for the sake of his people, he sent people on suicide missions without their knowledge, and of course the original T-bomb. Black Bolt does a lot of fucked up things for his people.
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>>78979017
>Fantastic Four is cancelled forever
Brevroot said they would come back eventually, tho'.
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>>78979888
If he went DC, I bet he'd start writing LOSH.
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>>78979748
That's one of the few things that was relevant until the end actually.
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>>78979992
>If he went DC, I bet he'd shit up LOSH
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>>78979992
He had a 60 issue pitch all planned and ready to go for pre-Nu52 LOSH. It'd probably be unusable now though.

His favorite comic character is Blue Devil though so I imagine he'd want to write a Black and Blue book.
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>>78980044
You can't shit up something that was cancelled because of shit sales.
>>78980045
Yeah, I remember 60 issue pitch and Blue Devil from some other thread months ago. He has some groovy taste, desu.
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>>78979954
Yeah, but eventually means "once the rights expire or Perlmutter lifts the embargo." The latter won't happen until they either get the rights back or someone replaces Perlmutter.

Yes it'll definitely happen EVENTUALLY, but they're still shelved for the foreseeable future.
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>>78980068
You can shit it up with awful writing.
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>>78980041
You mean the tree? Was it really Yggdrasil? It was never explained and didn't play a role except for allowing Memes of the Galaxy to do something.
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>>78980045
>He had a 60 issue pitch all planned and ready to go for pre-Nu52 LOSH. It'd probably be unusable now though.

They could just reboot LOSH again. How many times has it happened?
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>>78980164
They could use original Legion, Convergence restored Multiverse hardcorely.
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>>78980075
Why is Perlmutter even still there, didn't he sell to disney? Why doesn't he just fuck off with all the money he made from the sale?
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>>78978525
If you don't think that Hickman's run on the Fantastic Four was goddamned incredible, it's obvious that the problem isn't Hickman, it's you.

That said, the Avengers and Secret Wars stuff he ran was plagued by over-ambition and far too many characters.

His Ultimates were pretty goddamn solid as well.
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>>78980221
>If you don't think that Hickman's run on the Fantastic Four was goddamned incredible, it's obvious that the problem isn't Hickman, it's you.

The ending got a bit muddled. The War of the Four Cities or whatever turned into a huge clusterfuck where half a dozen enemies intent on destroying Earth all canceled out. And then it turned out it was all a plan to save Reed from being targeted by the mad Celestials.
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>>78979104
>Who is Sinister?
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>>78980221
Low standards detected.
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>>78978477
>Ex Nihilo, Abyss and Aleph were pointless
>Terrax was pointless
>Pod was pointless
>Validator was pointless
>Mapmakers were pointless
>Shang Chi clones were pointless
>Builders were pointless
>Thane was pointless
>Wolverine was pointless
>Spider-Man was pointless
>Falcon was pointless
>Cannonball and Smasher getting together and having a kid was pointless
>That whole time travel arc with the future Avengers and the Kangs teaming up was pointless
Actually, in the end EVERYTHING in Hickman's run was pointless. A bunch of shit hapened, then everything died and none of it mattered.
And if anyone says "that's the point", then what was the point in reading it? More importantly, it could have at least been interesting, but it wasn't, it was boring and pretentious
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>>78980367
>Unattainably high standards detected

Nigga, we're talking about comic books, and the Big 2 at that. Not fucking Trotsky or Vonnegut.

And seriously, if you didn't like the FF/F4 run Hickman did, the problem doesn't lie with him, it lies with you.
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>>78978477
that's why they fired him
that and the letters he wrote people at the studio
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>>78980213
He's still the CEO of Marvel and holds absolute control over it. As part of deal, Perlmutter was to maintain control over the running of marvel and no one from Disney could make any demands/changes that he didn't first approve.

Perlmutter only ever sold to Disney because he was going to use it as leverage to try and gain control of Disney from the inside. Feige's little power play severely hurt Perlmutter's chances of that though.
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>>78980442
By Big Two standards that run ain't great.
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>>78980465
What letters?
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>>78978477
it had some great moments, but overall yes, a huge let down. marvel has ruined everything
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>>78978477
Good ideas, terrible execution.
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>>78980507
Man, I grew up in the 90's. I remember when Image split off from Marvel, and everything was try hard edgy bullshit. Comics then were terrible.

Hickman brought an epic overarching plot (F4) and lighthearted fun (FF) and managed to balance and eventually converge the two, semi-gracefully.

And as opposed to his Avengers run, he actually brought it to an above decent close.

Not to mention, Fantastic Four was for the most part pretty terrible, bottom of the barrel stuff before he came along, seeing as how their family dynamic didn't fit into the EXTREME or secretly-dark and wannabe-mature mold of the 90's and early to mid 2000's.

Also, his run on the Ultimates was pretty fucking cool. The art helped a lot too, though I can't give him credit for that.
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Wew Marvel. Great idea having the very last page of one of your most important events FOUR FUCKING MONTHS before it ended.

But I expect this kind of shit so I don't really mind anymore. The one real gripe I have with the event is Phoenixclops doing basically nothing and then fucking off after the event.

I mean, even Elsa Bloodstone got some pages. That's something.
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>>78978525
secret wars is loved by casuals right now
trades are gonna sell like crazy
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>>78980644
>casuals

I want /v/ to leave
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the problem is he was balancing so many characters in avengers with only 44 issues.
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>>78980612
>Comics then were terrible.
Lol no
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>>78980691
Comics were always terrible, they're still terrible, and they will always be terrible.
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>>78978477
in the end I don't know what to make of it. I'm left kinda unfulfilled. He handled all the characters fairly well, and he had some great artists and big ideas,

but what was the point?

I liked the first arc. I liked infinity. I liked the Betrayal Arc or whatever when they went into the future-- it was fun enough but nothing special.

Secret Wars was a hot mess-- a gorgeous mess-- a promising mess-- but a hot mess none the less.
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>>78980727
Calm down, Hackman. Not all comics are written by you.
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>>78979697
>Multiversity was Secret Wars done right

I'm just surprise he messed it up so much. Morrison had already finished Multiversity by the time Hickman was doing Secret Wars.

At least copy from his better.

>>78979742
Technically I would put Squaadron Supreme and Ultimates as under the Avengers Umbrella despite not being technically Avenger teams.

>Avengers World

That wasn't a team really. That was more a backup title to develop some of the secondary neglected characters from his Avengers title. Ditto for Assemble as the predecessor iirc.
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>>78980691
Yes they absolutely were. Just because we got gems like Starman or Thunderbolts doesn't mean the mayority of it wasn't shit. The early to mid 90's were a dark age for comics. Marvel almost fucking died, for crying out loud.
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>>78980691
I would concede if you gave me an example, and really only if that example were certain runs of X-Men, the Maxx or the end of Gaiman's Sandman during the first half of the 90's.

Aside from that you're not addressing any of my points with any substance, so you're argument and opinion are invalid.

So I'm gonna ask, what wasn't terrible in the 90's? Spawn? Wildstorm? Valiant? The Justice League? Kyle Raynor as Green Lantern? The leather jacket Avengers?
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>>78981034
Morrison's Justice League
Starman
Dixon on Nightwing/Robin/Batman
Ostrander's Spectre
Long Halloween
Golden Age
PAD"s Supergirl and Aquaman
Waid's Flash

DC had plenty of decent titles
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>>78981034
Vertigo
Spectre
Starman
Legends of The Dark Knight
Flash
Aquaman
JLA
Jared Fate
Ragman

Vertigo alone had some of the greatest comics of all time. Face it, you're just a meme poster.
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>>78981090
And yet at the same time, aside from the awful Death of Superman, DC was the least hyped and discussed comic company of the 90's.

If we're gonna be completely honest, the terrible quality of comics in the 90's are why anime became so popular in America at that time, to the point where it stole enough consumers to nearly crash the industry.
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>>78981219
All I hear is how horrible your taste is. Anime became popular because you could actually see characters bleed while cartoons couldn't even show guns being fired, and then the number of action cartoons shrank like crazy.
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>>78981198
Vertigo was good in the 90's, completely agree.

But let's be honest with ourselves, the mainstream comic industry was awful. It was over saturated with EXTREME and Liefeld and Jim Lee.

And when it boils down to it, the industries main focus, the teenage boy market, it was pretty awful.

Luckily, the market geared toward older readers allowed for good writers to eventually find their way to mainstream titles, ending the rut that was the 90's and early to mid 2000's.
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>>78981013
>Marvel almost fucking died, for crying out loud.
Too bad it didn't
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>>78978477
The path leading to the event was way more interesting than the Secret Wars itself. Marvel got a reboot, the creators got a temporary playground to play on.

Civil War ain't my favourite event, but at least it had an impact and some consequences, which Secret Wars completely lacks (apart from sneaking towards the MCU).
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>>78981345
The popular shit was always awful, still is while the lesser know stuff is good but barely sells(especially now)
It just sounds to me like you're an x-fag.
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>>78981326
Did I say anything about liking anime? I think anime (and manga) was the breaking point for the American comic industry.

When all this happened the powers that be had two choices, get better fast or too over and die. Luckily they decided for the former and eventually got good.
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>>78981384
Like I said, I grew up in the 90's. You expect me to be reading anything but X-Men when I was fucking 10?
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>>78981393
Never said anything about you liking anime, I just told you why it became popular since you didn't know.
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>>78981410
So because you were a dumb shit that read crap, then that decade sucks? Bitch please.
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>>78981418
Anime became popular because the comic industries market preferred the lightheartedness that came along with the action in shows like Dragonball as opposed to the constant edginess of Liefeld's Youngblood and McFarlane's Spawn.
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>>78981514
It's because Dragon ball had fighting, while cartoons were just funny. And then you had other stuff like Ninja Scroll with actual violence, and Cowbob Bebop...
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>>78981348
ebin
>>
I'm not a fan of Hickman's Marvel work in general, but I liked F4/FF.

I just wish that they'd release what's left of S.H.I.E.L.D.
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>>78981998
>I just wish that they'd release what's left of S.H.I.E.L.D.
Hickman finished writing it. Weaver finished drawing it. They were supposed to be out in September after Secret Wars ended, but then the delays happened.

But now that SW is over, Marvel doesn't really have an excuse not to release them. Those two issues have been done for MONTHS. The only thing that could possibly not be done is the coloring and lettering, but since it hasn't been solicited yet, that's still minimum 3 months before they can release them. That's more than enough time to color and letter two issues.
>>
Even Hickman's F4 stories had the same problem of having semi-decent build up and complete clusterfuck once it's time to tie up the plot threads for the climax. Hickman's writing style is all about giving you snippets of stuff and concepts that by the first glance seem intriguing, thus conning you to keep reading more and then stringing you along with the promise of it all making sense in the end, only for his house of cards to come crashing down when 90% of all his build up ends up being relatively superfluous to the climax. And he's absolutely shit at writing character lead stories and using supporting characters in meaningful way, that's why the stories are driven by these giant plot devices and most of the characters are there just as background noise, occasionally doing some plot related task before going back to being wall paper.
>>
I hope his dream of writing LoSH never comes true, because it would be a goddamn disaster.
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>>78982519
This.

I love LoSH and would love for there to be another ongoing, but not if Hickman gets to write it.
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>>78982578
I can easily see the large outlines of this past run as a really shitty LOSH story, because he'd fail to fill it in with character interactions--we'd get the same "people standing around with arms crossed" and lots of montages of Legionnaires flying around, and cosmic shit like the Infinite Man with none of the heart.
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>>78982625
And it would ultimately shove most of the characters into the background, save the founders, one or two of his favorites, and maybe his new character.
Probably like an avatar of Ekron or something.
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>>78980612
>Image split off from Marvel = 1992
>Hickman ... (F4) ... (FF) = 2010
What the fuck are yo even talking about? Waid's run is heads above Hickman's and so is Straczynski's first arc
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>>78981090
Don't forget Dixon's Birds of Prey

>no omnibus ever because nobody cares/knows about pre-Simone BoP
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>>78979697
mutiversity is masturbatory shit
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>>78980075
but that's not hickman's fault.
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>>78979017
>Fantastic Four is cancelled forever.
Fucking lol. Even if that were true, its not his fault. Thats because of Marvel v Fox beef.
>Captain America is out of the picture.
Yet both Steve and Sam are still there and active
>Dozens of Avenger teams.
Implying there wasn't a bunch already
>Literally no bad guys who aren't easily trounced by heroes
Plenty of villains actually
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>>78979697
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>>78978477
Gave us Smasher, and her fantastic backside.
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>>78978590
>the Fantastic Four are gone,

Marvel upper management wanted the FF dead.
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>>78983840
>Yet both Steve and Sam are still there and active
So are Cap 2099, Cap 20XX, and Bucky. We're an American Dream cameo away from having a Cap Corps.
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>>78982796
they just started recollecting it in trade
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>>78984149
Because women in comics usually have shit asses?
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>>78980404
Don't forget the Cabal. All Maximus does is show up with a laughable disguise and an army out of nowhere, all Thanos does is walk up to the wall and convince it to leave, all Maker does is try to turn Reed into a monkey only to have Owen turn Maker into pizza, all Namor does is snipe quips at T'Challa, and the super original OC Donut Steel characters Proxima Midnight and Corvus Glaive do jack fucking shit as they get captured off-screen.

Oh and don't forget Phoenix Egg Cyclops who gave one lame monologue and died like a complete bitch.
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>>78985455
>Proxima Midnight and Corvus Glaive
kek
>>
>Proxima wields a spear forged for her by Thanos; created from a collapsing sun trapped in space-time acting and wielded as both a star and a supernova at once. Whence thrown it becomes a lance of multi-arcing energy carrying the weight, speed and near infinite mass of it's template sake. An arm which never misses its mark acting as both a lethal projectile with absolute constant velocity as well as a form of energy netting which turns jet black after ensnaring a target weighing them down using the heft of said singularity effectively immobilizing them, its effects was potent enough to match and bind the virtually limitless strength the Hulk as well as revert him back to Bruce Banner once upon drawing it out of him
KEK
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>>78978477
Infinity was alright, and boring
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>>78986578
Remember when the only henchmen Thanos had were the blood brothers.
>>
At least I can Fap to Smasher and Black Swan.

...btw, what happened to the Black Swans? We're they revealed to be alt Valeries?
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>>78987159
They got left behind when Doom went to kill the Beyonders. And the main Black Swan lost in a meme-off.
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>>78982519
>>78982578
>>78982625
>>78982664
Fuck off. LOSH is a load of trash and Hickman would be one of the very few writers who'd be able to salvage something from that pile of heap.
>>
>>78983864
One of what? People with taste? Then yes, I am one of those.
>>
The fact that it all lead up to a character story involving Doctor Doom and the Fantastic Four means that Secret Wars was the GOAT event.

Eat shit x-fags. Eat shit avengers. The Fantastic Four birthed the universe and they recreated it as well.
>>
It was ok, the ending was disappointing and underwhelming, but I liked New Avengers tremendously. Still better than 90% of shit we're getting now.

>>78979697
Both Morrison and Multiversity are pretty shit though
inb4
>too deep 4u
Nah, I don't want the same story-archetype-trope bullshit wanked several years non-stop.
>>
>>78989363
So you don't actually read Morrison comics.
K
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