Connect meaning what? Appreciate? Admire? Emulate? As >>78969308 points out, not necessarily so. However, >>78969371 and >>78969374 point to a lack of understanding of the true nature of the mythos (which is probably better explained although with way too many words in Supergods) which is part and parcel of a lot of what is wrong in popular culture today.
I think you need to ask better questions, however. Connect is way too open for interpretation and misunderstanding.
>>78968968 You have to realize that this generation is so caught up in the meme of "you can do whatever you want" that living for the benefit of other people or even living in a way such that is not harmful to other people is a completely foreign concept.
>>78969308 >Captain America has become pretty popular again And if you ask people about him they will say about his friendship with bucky and how much of bad ass with fights he is, people don't give a shit about Morals
>>78971327 Without going into details, I work with hundreds of children ranging from age 6 to 13 and this lack of consideration for others is prevalent in all ages. At around age 8 they begin learning that most people in their life just don't give a fuck about each other for what ever reason. When you're raised by a smartphone and fed hot cheetos and ramen your whole life, an overwhelming sense of desperation settles in that makes the idea of putting other first foreign, like anon said. Its sad, but the most morality you'll find in the next generation is a fierce loyalty to their friends and family, and little else.
You know who kids like? Deadpool and Batman. Because they're petty, violent man-children who do what ever they want. The only kids who like Spider-man like him because hes funny, not because he values responsibility. The only kids who like The Flash or Superman are the jocks. Basically kids don't like superheroes because superheroes are good people, they like them because they're charismatic or power trips.
He's unrelatable because he was born with godlike power, yet he deigns to say he knows what it means to be human. He will lecture to you that all life is precious. Well, it can sometimes be difficult to accept that when your life isn't nearly as magnificent as his, and when you're so weak to the point that the mere existence of certain beings endangers your life. When you know exactly the kind of terrible shit people are capable of.
He's a reminder that some people are just born great, and you never had a chance to match them. Take Batman for instance. He made himself the ultimate human. In order to become a force for good, he trains his entire life to be able to take on anything, choosing a hard life of discipline and pain over one of comfort, risking everything in the process. He spends his entire life mired in shadows to hide his vulnerability. It's cost him love, friendship, and happiness. But even then, at the end of the day he's just some guy, while Superman is something much more. It sucks, because I know what it's like to work your ass off for something, only to be found wanting.
Superman is stronger than you, faster than you, tougher, happier, smarter, kinder, handsomer, more loved. He's emotionally stable, driven, charismatic, always holds the moral high ground, he's saved the world countless times...he's just perfect.
I honestly don't hate the character, I hate my inability to enjoy or relate to him.
>>78972563 Batman was born ludicrously wealthy which afforded him the opporunity to spend his life touring the world learning ninja shit and building rocket-cars, and Superman grew up on a farm and now works in a suit-and-tie job with a boss.
Powers are completely irrelevant, Clark Kent is the one I relate to more of the two, his life experiences outside of the tights are actually recognizable.
You either like Superman or you don't, like any other superhero. A lot of times people say they don't like him for his personality or powers are just repeating what they saw someone else post on the internet.
Who cares? Enjoy the heroes you like. They wouldn't still be around if nobody liked them.
>>78968968 >Can modern day audiences and readers really not connect with him because of his morals alone?
I can't connect with him because I see superman as a force of nature - some great force that I can't fathom or identify as a person because of the vast scale of trying to see him as 'human'. For me, watching Superman is like watching Godzilla. They're both characters, but they're not what I'd consider as relateable because what they both do is beyond human.
>>78968968 Superman to be relatable to modern teens would have to do the following:
>be not white (less than 40% of American teens are white, around 1/3) >take selfies constantly >watch/reference PewDiePie >YOLO SWAG >use drugs regularly >have children with multiple women and have even more ex'es that had gotten abortions >be an aspiring entertainer of some kind >have a twitter
This literally describes over half of all Americans under the age of 20. They can't even FATHOM being a farmer from Kansas.
Relatibility is retarded. But most current audience don't find him relatable only because they lack imagination. Most don't find anyone relatable unless the character is self inserted. That's one of the reason for race and sexuality bending in comics today.
Most people can't relate to him because recently he has been written as unrelateable. It plays into the persecution fantasies of most comic readers that they "get" Superman and others don't (just look at this thread), which is a pretty good marketing tactic all things considered.
>>78971327 >>78972424 >>78971966 Every generation believes this about the one after it. The fact is, children are selfish and thoughtless until they grow up, but they do, generally, grow up. Some people will always remain more selfish than others, some people will be more selfless than others, while most, as in every generation in history, will be primarily on their own side while still able to be moved to acts of compassion in certain cases. That's about what most people can handle, and it's been how the human race functions since we developed the ability for higher empathy.
>>78976769 People as a whole are shit and have always been shit, but we've reached the point as a human race where we're running out of resources at a pretty damn fast rate with no clear-cut sustainable future for any of the heighths that we've reached as a race, and we've never been more intellectually free yet oppressed, and to a lot of people its disheartening to see their kind and kin revel in pointless distractions instead of doing something, anything. A lot of this is just uninformed pessimism but its still depressing every time I see an 8 year old on his parents iphone playing some shit game or young adults who do nothing but play video games instead of develop their minds. I don't even know why I'm here.
>>78976855 >I don't even know why I'm here. Mostly because being here is easier than "developing your mnd," whatever it is you consider that to be. Not a problem though, as long as you condemn other peope for doing what you do you're in the clear.
>>78976908 Most of America might be rural but the great mass of population lives in the cities, plus not everyone in rural areas are farmers, you have plenty of brokedick welfare queers and can't forget the minimum wage workers/factory folk. Plus todays industrial farming is almost NOTHING like old-timey farming and small farms are practically dead, and its not like its a common thing in media or even the public consciousness nowadays. So yeah, a lot of people literally can't imagine what its like growing up on a kansas farm.
>>78977160 >Is it true that modern society is beyond absolutism? Modern society is beyond jack-shit and the only reason moral absolutism isn't as common is because of the "everything is subjective" meme becoming so widespread.
>>78976769 The difference seems to be people aren't growing out of this childish mentality. They're still acting like this into their 20s with no sign of growing up. Certainly in the UK, tho I suspect the US is the same. Schools and universities lower themselves to the kids rather than elevating the kids to adulthood. And of course many parents today simply don't accept responsibility. It's left to the state to raise these kids.
>>78976961 deontology and moral absolutism are not the same thing though.
deontology is a moral code, moral absolutism is the perception that a certain moral code is right and everything outside it is wrong, no matter the circumstances it came from or its results and consequences.
>>78977325 Don't forget the part where they will give you shit for not subscribing to their pop-history version of world events cobble together from lots of YouTube video watching and zero reading of historiography
>>78972563 >He's unrelatable because he was born with godlike power, yet he deigns to say he knows what it means to be human. He didn't have all his powers right out of the bat so I think he would in fact know. Not to mention the countless times he has been depowered.
There's no reason to believe that moral truths exist as tangible, real things independent of us. You can WANT them to, but there's simply no evidence of it. Justice, mercy, etc, are concepts, and they mean different things depending on who you derive their meaning from. There are no laws in nature, only patterns. Nothing is natural, or right, or good.
We, however, as humans, have a somewhat more limited scope and, in order to make our lives bearable, we should minimize suffering. Not because it is 'right' or 'wrong', but simply because suffering is unpleasant from almost every human's perspective.
I'm surprised that tumblr hasn't taken over DC yet.
Superman could've been killed-off for having too much male cisgender white privilege, and Supergirl could've turned into a fat tumblrina who protects oversensitive girls from being offended from everyday life.
>>78977854 You're thinking of nature on too small of a scale. On the level of individual animals, this is correct; nature is red in tooth and claw, physiological traits are the only "concrete" measure of a species' survivability, and conceptions of thought are just that - abstractions made as an accident of our powerful brains and social nature.
However, societies are also an aspect of nature, and taking a wider view, we may examine the behavior of societies as adaptive or maladaptive towards the survival of the social organism as well as the individual organism. On a broader scale, then, morals, values and ethics become characteristics, as tangible and essential as physiological.
For instance, most prosperous first-world countries have, to one degree or another, values where altruism, justice, reciprocity, productivity, and fairness are held in high esteem, where selfishness, asocial behavior, laziness, and cruelty are decried. Of course, individually speaking, how we act doesn't always match the values of our society, but if we expand our view to a wider range we see a cultural organism that, for the most part, treats the members of its "body" with a pretty good level of compassion and equity (compared to other societies throughout history at least). Cultures with these "traits" tend to thrive and grow, while isolationist, war-like, and despotic cultures tend to die out, stagnate, or weaken until they are absorbed or changed by the stronger cultural organisms. Virtue is an evolving survival mechanism, as tangible and real as the human thumb.
>>78984075 it's not easy to be inspired by someone who is never at risk and can do whatever he pleases, can see molecules, can hear across the earth, can survive the deepest depths of the ocean and space, etc
>>78985161 >Never at risk He constantly worries about fitting in and relating to normal people. He's weirder and more unique than any anon on 4chan and yet he finds time to have a normal, well adjusted social life.
>Do whatever he pleases The kicker to the character is that what he pleases is never petty or crude.
>>78976832 >wolverine or cable >a canadian and marvel's shadow hegegog Boy scouts are cooler anyways. They can survive in the wild, track bears, tie shit, and are taught to help their community. I bet they even know how to hunt.
Fucking really? What's all this bullshit about "connecting with him?"
He's a multimillion dollar, continually successful fictional franchise product that does whatever the artists or writers want him to do. Nobody has to get their moral standpoint from an inconsistent comic book character, you nerds.
Tons of people like Superman, popularity isn't the issue
Superman will never be "cool" though, and that's fine. He will always be popular but he'll never have the same appeal characters like Batman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, etc etc etc have....he's not a "cool" guy and he doesn't need to be.
It seems that comic fans get mad whenever their favorite character isn't loved by all, when their are as many different characters as their are different people...it's dumb.
>>78988393 >being an abject retard specializing in meaningless "hobbies" is somehow preferable I know being contrarian is the norm on 4chan now because god forbid anybody even attempt to be intelligent but this is ridiculously retarded.
>>78985698 I used to be a boy scout 10 years ago There's more paperwork and fucking essays than actual learning about survival skills every other meeting was reading bullshit from the stupid handbook I doubt its changed any from when I was in.
i can't believe people are stupid enough to believe this. I'd be surprised if any of you are over 30...
Why the fuck would this generation of kids like Superman? A cartoon starring Superman hasn't been around for ten years. There hasn't been a good Superman movie since the 70s. There hasn't been a good Superman video game... ever. Name one reason kids have to like Superman.
>>78988795 You know nothing of who I am or what I do and proving it to you would be pointless since you're an idiot that'd just post more le epic maymays since you're incapable of thinking abouting anything in more depth than capeshit. >he's on 4chan >of course he's an idiot just like me! Stop projecting and maybe people will bother to entertain you.
>>78988868 >You know nothing of who I am or what I do and proving it to you would be pointless since you're an idiot that'd just post more le epic maymays since you're incapable of thinking abouting anything in more depth than capeshit. ..So you have absolutely nothing to say, then? It's obvious, you know.
If you'd done anything worthwhile with your life you wouldn't be hunched over a computer whining about how other people actually enjoy themselves. Your activities are just as mindless and worthless as theirs, the difference is they're not as obnoxious.
You know, most of these kids playing video games or playing with these parents' iphones are just normal people. They go to schools, have friends, and one day they'll get a job and a family, and maybe do something worthwhile with their lives. I can't say the same for you.
>>78989001 >Mary Sue Oh boy >He doesn't fit the hero's journey Because you can't understand or emphazie with a character unless their history is a cookie-cutter monomyth. >that face legitimate challenges and overcome them. why don't you put the world in a bottle, cardboard city, darkside, being the number 1 public face for any/all superheros operating with or without the league
>>78988641 This. It's a matter of exposure, Marvel is beating DC in sales and has more successful adaptations. Kids don't read comics. >>78969019 This anon is right, and that means it's as difficult to adapt Superman as it is to write him in a comic.
>>78968968 I think a big problem with Superman is that he's been taken out of the context in which he was created.
Take the new Man From U.N.C.L.E.. Rather than try to set in the modern day, it's set during the Cold War. The producers made the choice not to update it. Maybe because of Mad Men. But it's a period piece. I think if D.C. really wants to get back to the core of what made Superman great, he should be bumping around in the 1930's fighting mad scientists and corrupt government officials. Maybe make him a bit more powerful than original Superman, but not too much.
If you have to have a modern Superman in a 20teens story, you make him the same Superman, only now he's 100 years old and looks fifty and has absorbed so much solar radiation he's basically a God on earth. Basically Clark from Kingdom Come.
1940's Supes is a relateable guy, fighting evil, falling in love, doing human stuff and enjoying life.
2010's Superman is a few steps removed from humanity. Lois has been dead for years and most of his old friends are too. He has become a God watching over mankind and is treated as such by the heroes, villains and the general public. At this point 21st Century Superman is more a plot device than anything.
I'm a huge Superman fan. I respect and admire him greatly and though I won't tell people outright but those who have been with me throughout most of my life would know that I based my life off him. He's the reason I became a Muslim. Superman inspired me at a young age to be a better person. Even my friends think I'm just too nice but I can't be selfish nor can I get angry and there are 0 people on this planet I hate and it's all because this fictional character made me believe in other people.
>>78979306 Personally, I'd say you're the one thinking too small. Our societies are nothing. They mean nothing, ultimately. The idea that being born in relatively close proximity to someone else, or having a shared history, separates you in an true way from anyone else, is ridiculous. These structures exist because without them we wouldn't be organized, and because, as competitive animals, everyone wants to be on the top - and to be on top, there has to be a structure to actually be at the zenith of.
You say 'virtue' is real, but many of the traits you name as aspects of virtue have simply not been highly valued by some of the most successful societies on Earth. Social structures do indeed help us thrive, but few two social structures are the same. You cite altruism? What is altruism? What is the level of generosity that classes a person as altruistic? I guarantee you that other people with have a different view to you. Even today, there are strong societies that define their virtues extremely differently to how we do so here in the west - China and India, for example, are rapidly developing into economic powerhouses. China is held together primarily through bureaucratic despotism, and India through a punishing caste system.
Frankly, it is relative thinking that has brought you many of the Enlightenment ideals and innovations that allow you to live in your prosperous society.
I don't think morality is unimportant, from our perspective. We're not universal in scale, so we can afford to have little white lies we use to make things more bearable. Morality helps to structure us, to bind us, and to reduce suffering, and ultimately that's all that matters for being that live short, tiny lives.
But morality simply cannot be measured. It has no focal point. If you attempt to give it one, you'll find that someone, somewhere else, has given it a different one, and that their is just as valid as yours. You could determine which is 'real' by which works the best, but that's not what real means, and that goes against the idea of moral imperatives that are right because they are right - if something was right because it is right it wouldn't have to work the best, it'd be the correct thing anyway, by nature.
Morality isn't bad or petty. But it is relative, in ever sense of the term.
>>78991933 Morality being subjective is why it isn't a real thing nor anything to be concerned about. It's an arbitrary set of rules, different to each person, and usually with religious roots. It doesn't really exist. You can't sense it in any way. Its just an idea and ideas change.
In the grand scheme of things, feeding the homeless is no 'better' than murdering them because 'better' suggests there's a definite, indisputable measure of morality, which there isn't because morality changes.
Actions therefore can only be judged on how they help the species as a whole. Killing is thought of as 'wrong' and yet nobody bats an eyelid over the amount of killing we're doing in the Middle East to defend truth, justice and freedom and all that jazz.
There are no absolutes. There's no such thing as pure good or pure evil. They're synthetic constructs. Raping a child has some good elements because it brings pleasure to the rapist. You may find that repulsive, but you can't deny it. Making people happy is always seen as an admirable quality right?
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