Secret wars #9 the long overdue end
I'm not to good with the time travel but why would the time gem that only controls time in this one spot in battleworld take him to 616 past?
but weren't the other gems destroyed I imagine that since they are intact here it was another set. Strange even mentioned how hard it was to find a place with all of them.
Imagine if he gave him a fresh burger
>Isn't this the role Wakanda is taking in the movieverse?
Wakanda has ALWAYS benn a super-science society. And we have no indication that Wakanda will be involved in space in the MCU. So yes, you're being super dumb
I'm not sure it mattered what set they were because everything left of reality was being wiped out at that instant. The only thing that mattered was that it was a workable Gem. He clearly went back in time to a world created by the FF and Owen Reece.
Man ribic gave Val too nice of an ass.
>letting a kid dream up universes
Seems like he would do silly things with it
Sun God was right.
So did black swan die at some point?
Doom wins, all is well.
Secret Wars was good. It'll read better not spread across months, and be remembered as one of Marvel's better event stories (not that that's hard to be). But it also fell victim to most of Hickman's usual weaknesses.
Black Swan ended up being pointless.
Just like Terrax, Proxima Midnight, Corvus, Pod, Validator, Shang-Chi. Smasher, Cannonball, Falcon, Thane, the Builders, the Mapmakers and many many other things in Hickman's mega-arc ended up being completely and utterly pointless.
Even Steve and Tony didn't matter at all in the end.
>Reminder that Tony and Steve had a punching contest while New York was glassed, as opposed to trying to save a single life
I can't wait for Illuminated Wars
It's more of an excuse to ignore continuity when necessary in the Batgirlish books and to keep X-Men fans from having a meltdown by removing their 8000 different dystopian futures
Continuity when you need it and continuity when you don't.
>I can't wait for Illuminated Wars
I was just about to post that
Are most of our problems actually with SW, or with SW as an end to the Avengers run?
Because I reckon it's mainly the latter. Reading Hickman's FF followed by Secret Wars proper would probably be great!
There's only so many people that you can let truly matter. Especially in a story with a wide scope like Avengers (Or New Avengers, I can't remember which was the incursions and which was the shit story) it would be weird to have a cast of small characters.
Besides, at least he made some new ideas that can be used by other writers.
>There's only so many people that you can let truly matter
Then why introduce so many people into the narrative in the first place?
>Besides, at least he made some new ideas that can be used by other writers.
Other than Starbrand and Pod, it doesn't look like anyone is gonna use his ideas
So 616 FF family is alive and well ( minus ben/johnny) and they're off playing good restablishing the multiverse using a modification of the beyonder's plan ( multi molucle men to power them).
Do they no longer have a running series / show up in the " prime universe"?
Any raft survivors / 616 folks remember the events?
No it wouldn't. Secret Wars is just the final FF issue stretched out to 9 uneventuful chapters.
Doom becomes God
His creations hate him and work to overthrow him
He manages to screw up even with divine power
Reed has to bail him out AGAIN
This would have been a good end to a story about Reed Richards and Doctor Doom's rivalry, with Reed finally finding a healthy work/family balance and Doom finally getting over his inferiority complex.
Too bad it wasn't about that from the start and wound up being shoehorned in once Secret Wars started properly.
Multiversity was superior to this event. Despite its huge scope, it was still filled with genuine character and heart to the point that it could make you feel sorry for a Nazi Superman.
Then they would have had to delay everything for months. We would just be getting Iron Man #1 and a bunch of other shit. Marvel should really start early on their events so that maybe by the time they start they're either done or mostly done.
>Doom finally getting over his inferiority complex.
He didn't actually do that. He outright admitted that all he did was a huge vanity project so he could feel better about Reed being more brilliant than he was.
of course what actually happened is that Superman saved the day and Reed and Owen just started cleaning up their little corner of the omniverse.
as an X-Men fan, SW simply didn't live up to justify an entire year without new X-Men comics, the new shitty old status quo and an 16 month time jump since Bendis never caught up to Time Runs Out.
The last one's not Hickman's fault but the five X-Men SW minis were same tired 'X-Men make a dramatic last stand against overwhelming odds' and the new books are more of the same. It's just exhausting.
the book itself was okay, not enough cool moments to justify a reread, everything cool seemed to happen off panel.
I get getting conveniently rid of the Richards family while still giving them a happy ending, but it still makes no sense that
>Ben and Johnny know nothing of this so they're left moping in mourning
>the whole Future Foundation, including the Powers, goes with them never to be seen again thus taking out the very possibility of even having F4-related stories to tell
That actually created a plot hole. The entirety of the Last Will of Charles Xavier happened before Wolverine's death, and it ended with Cyclops dismantling his school. Then Havok shows up a day later, even though that makes no sense sine Axis happened a while after Wolverine's death.
Janet showed up in Rage of Ultron, so she escaped the Sex Dungeon
I liked it. It wasn't the perfect event, no Marvel event is, but it was a pleasant read. I'll definitely miss Hickman's silly bullshit and Doomwankery, especially as Marvel seems to be turning away from writers with an inclination towards heavy plotting and going to more lightweight Bendis/ Leth tier people.
So just to make sure I'm on the right page, Doom could have used Franklin to start rebuilding the multiverse at any time, but was to prideful to abandon his masturbatory fantasy that was Battleworld
I think the idea is that Doom saved what he could, those leftover scraps of incursion worlds that began piling up. He was afraid of losing the victory he fought so hard for so he never really tried to use Owen's Beyonder powers for anything except holding the Battleworld together. They repeat the phrase about 3 times this issue.
does it matter they all got powered up anyway. The future foundation ironing out the mistakes franklin makes with the universes. I'm sure they could have done it honestly I don't see why they even need more than the person with Owen's power.
One thing I liked from this is how Reed finally realized how pointless his and Doom's rivalry was and fixed his face when recreated the main u.
Oh, and also that Miles' mom is alive. That's great. Her death was kinda pointless.
Illuminated guy is working on it
he's Ultimate Reed complete with the lower case speech bubbles, he's wasn't reincarnated into the new universe like 616-Miles, he an extradimensional survivor like Squadron Supreme and Old Man Logan.
>Is he still Ultimate Reed? Does he act the same way?
Yes and yes.
>How is the Maker alive?
The Molecule Man found him somewhat indigestible.
So, one big question from me that I'd appreciate thoughts on.
It seems to me like Franklin is just imagining universes with no prior knowledge - just making stuff up.
Does that mean that he is recreating (and adding) all the evil and malicious universe breaking stuff out there too?
Is he working fresh - or with the materials left from the old universes. It makes much more sense that Franklin is putting Universes back together rather than actually creating them from scratch - but this seems to be implying the opposite.
If he was creating universes then he's responsible for shit that'll appear like the cancerverse - but if he's just reconstructing it then he's saving the good with the bad. It also doesn't mean that everything we enjoyed about Marvel is eradicated - its been put back together.
This seems to be a major distinction - and I'm not sure it's clear. Thoughts?
He isn't fine tuning anything, he's just going
>the world I came from
>that world, but everyone is animals
>that world, but gwen stacy is spider-man
etc. He supercharges the raw idea which acts like a seed to procedurally generate the universe
With this, can you Hickmanfags finally admit that he would've made Ultimate Reed go out like a bitch if his Ultimates run had gone on longer?
>things /co/ was wrong about #258345673983: Rightclops would be resurrected and save the day in the last issue
Honestly this even is just like the stupid Spiderverse shit to me. Throw in a bunch of SUPER COOL HONEST GUYS characters and moments, give no time or explanation to them, wrap up tons meaninglessly or off-panel and end the whole thing with a pretty dull stereotypical Doom/Richards moment.
It wasn't like horrific but it doesn't deserve most of the praise it's gotten. And it's scheduling was a fucking Marvel nightmare.
Ah yes, Rightclops going all Phoenix was yet another thing that ended up being completely pointless. Seriously, why did Hickman waste so much time on things that didn't matter? If he had trimmed some of the fat the book could have been 6 or 7 issues
I suppose that's what I mean.
Take the Cancerverse idea - the universe where there's no death. I suppose I don't want to think that a lot of these big stories are basically just because Franklin thought that idea was neat.
Considering the magnitude of what they're doing and the devastating effect it could have - it all just seems kind of blase.
So, in the end, Doom's restored face revelation was kind of important. It's the last thing we see in the fucking event. But it was heavily spoiled by Iron Man. I thought Doom's face wasn't going to be a big deal in the event and that's why they didn't care about the spoiler, but, c'mon, just imagine the reaction this page would've caused in this very storytime if we hadn't been spoiled.
Fuck you Bendis, and fuck you Ribic.
In Rage of Ultron Janet mentions having a daughter with Havok in the alt timeline and she mentions him being inverted too.
But eh I guess the other writers will ignore that, WaspHavok kid too and pretty sure Cap's son Ian is also going to get ignored.
It was. The ones you mentioned were garbage from the start. Secret Wars however pretends to be "deep", thus committing a bigger offense.
None of the events before disappointed me so much as Secret Wars.
>in a way always about Doom vs Reed
Why was Doom barely in the story line until Secret Wars started? Considering that he was Rabum Alal, his presence in the whole incursion sage was minimal.
ANAD Avengers and Uncanny Avengers. And guess whose back?
>Original Sin had some nice moments
Yeah, one of the best Ultron stories.
So this event was entirely pointless?
Looking a lot older then what you really are there Miles.
So if I'm now getting this right Reed, his family and Future Foundation are now outside of reality making an all new reality?
Ladies and gentlemen, Jonathan Hickman. Promises us a nine month long multiversal saga of so potential hype moments that ends with Reed Richards trying to strangle God Emperor Doom with his rubber dick. And it's still so fucking boring.
Is this what a truly mediocre event feels like? Because Secret Wars has nothing too bad, nothing too good, instead it's just a flatline of fucking nothing petering out into a universe that's already been pushed out ahead of it.
>Phoenix Egg Rightclops
Gives one monologue then has his neck snapped by Doom.
>Thanos tearing down the Shield
He actually just walks up to it and convinces it to get up and leave.
>Giant Ben Grimm pulling an Attack on Titan
He punches a Mega Sentinel once then dies like a punk.
>Maker vs. Reed
Never happened. They team up after a lame time skip only to have Maker try to turn Reed into a monkey or something then have Molecule Man turn Maker into pizza.
Again any animosity they might have had is swept away by the timeskip. They banter for like three pages before finding the plot device which shouldn't even have fucking worked within the context of Hickman's own fucking Avengers run.
>Maker vs. Doom
They barely meet.
Hell, I remember when everyone was so hyped about how Hickman had only written that godawful Avengers run in order to write his stealth Doom/Richards event. But Doom barely even spoke with Richards and Richards barely did anything besides mumble sci-fi gibberish and sport a badly drawn beard.
Beyonders didn't matter. Black Swan didn't matter. Black Priests didn't matter. The Cabal barely mattered. The whole arc with Tony and Steve and TIME RUNS OUT garbage meant jack fucking shit. I've never seen an event start out so promising and end so badly. This feels like a hasty rewrite by an editor after they found Hickman's corpse rotting in a closet sometime in June.
I don't even give a shit that I'm posting an image in a storytime.
Was he also the guy who Muh Phoenix?
Everything is Illuminated is the best thing to come out of Hickman's run
So the only people to go from 616, to battleworld, back to 616 is Noman, Black Panther, and Reed?
With Miles going from 1616 or whatever, to battleworld, to 616.
Or is there somebody I missed?
In terms of scale versus impact I'd say it's the fucking worst.
With the possible exception of 'Fear Itself' which was like a fart in Mammoth Cave.
You're not fooling anyone, John.
Symbolic. He doesn't think about the details.
I don't know what I was expecting.
I'm the retard who posted this >>78946864
Just trying to make sense of this whole story
more fool me.
Another big issue seems to be that the entire thing kind of reads like a heist story where Molecule Man is the mcguffin... The centre of Doom's power that RICHAAARDS! needs to get to.
How come he's so poorly guarded? How come God Doom seems to do such a poor job keeping him away from a planet populated by such absurdly powerful heroes with a wide range of abilities.
The actual plot is about two pages. Doom looks the other way and someone asks Molecule Man to switch allegiance for a sandwich or something.
Considering the amount of issues - battles and bullcrap - there seems to be very little that actually needed doing.
Also, this >>78946936 - does this mean all of the seriously evil - inherently crazy dimensional and universal stuff out there is just the product of Franklin's imagination whilst Reed pats him on the head?
Are we actually getting a new Fantastic Four comic that will explain how 'a bunch of kids recreating all of existence' would have enormously complex metaphysical issues?
>Are we actually getting a new Fantastic Four comic that will explain how 'a bunch of kids recreating all of existence' would have enormously complex metaphysical issues
Yes, it's called Homestuck
>obviously illusion-Doom in the middle of the second page
>BP vs. Doom mecha battle relegated only to a single page because of time and page count constraints
>in the second to the last bottom panel of the eleventh page Maker's eyeshield wasn't drawn
>18th page is a terribly executed literal checkerboard
>to prevent the 616 Reed and Doom fight from dragging out Owen just pulled the trigger instead
>T'Challa used the Time Gem
>it has also the effect of modifying the final scene of Secret Wars #1 probably because muh editorial to enable Reed to save Sue and the FF kids at the expense of everyone else and implying Reed defeated Doom
>then Franklin creates the ANAD Marvel Universe Heroes Reborn-style using ideas that are clearly real-life Marvel's while the Richardses and the FF kids decide to stay on Battleworld
>the new version of the Reed-Doom fight still results in the destruction of Battleworld but with Reed, Sue, Owen, and the kids as well as Maestro surviving and the formation of Battlerealm (ANAD Contest of Champions' setting)
>they are the in-universe counterpart to the House of Ideas now
Man, what an absolute piece of trash for an event, all the build up is literally ignored each issue and this last one is pretty much a FF special of sorts, and Hickman self-inserting himself has the molecule-man is really shitty, HURR DURR HAMBURGAH, HURR DURR MUH REED.
Yeah, same shit as with infinity, and it took fucking years to get here, fucking hackman.
Why can't I get a fucking book with Miles and Peter. This page is one of the best this issue. Shit, the journey of Namor and T'Challa, Peter and Miles, Doom and Richards are probably the only good things about this damned event.
We should have just got more of them because in the end only they mattered.
reed and co are not outside of the universe, they're seeding from within their own universe. i'm guessing reed and co are acting as gods for the time being, though reed insists on calling it science.
>>Pod says she could survive the Incursion
>>Smasher gives her the baby to keep in the Pod suit so he could survive
years have past
>>This never became a plot point.
This pisses me off because I thought it was gonna come back and be a huge "oh shit" moment because everyone forgot about it, but guess they were just a red herring.
Well, at least Doom won in the end. Still fucking blows chunks that we knew Doom won in ANAD Iron Man. Lort only knows why Marvel didn't finish this before they knew their stories afterwards would be on shelves.
So, anybody has the feeling that one of the main reasons of this event was to cull Cosmic Beings? To simplify and mechanize the Multiverse.
Jesus I hate this. Instead of crazy Celestials, Eternity shenanigans and Abstracts, we'll get "ho my felllow niggers let's remix Galactus cause we think it's ok"
Only Hickman really cared about them and tou bet your ass if Val comes back that Waid will try to kill that relationship and he almost did in his FF run and he has expressed dislike for the Doom and Val relationship.
And they all lived happily ever after. Even Doom.
Not a bad run, I give it a 8/10. Thanks OP.
>sport a badly drawn beard
Didn't nearly every male character show up sporting poorly kept beards after the time skip? I distinctly recall /co/ have a good, bemused chuckle at it.
I think Mr Reece is about to eat Maker pizza. How he ends up in the reboot universe is probably a mercy by 616 Reed, which is more than he deserved. Still 616 Reed is the good guy so... it's not suprising.
Why was Cyclops even there? Why even use the Phoenix egg? What was the fucking point?
None of the characters that were introduced mattered in the end. In the end it was just Reed, Doom, and T'Challa.
The revised recommended Hickman should just be Fantastic Four + FF -> New Avengers (minus Infinity) -> Secret Wars
>Killed off the Ultimate Universe, among with a number of others
>Shelved Reed, Sue, and the Future Foundation
>Brought the age old Reed vs. Doom feud to a close. Brought back Miles' mom
>Added Maker, Miles, Old Man Logan, and a number of other multiversal refugees to 616
>Returned Wakanda to its former glory
SW was an FF story, so it should be no surprise that most of the effects are on the FF.
Why even use the word alpha? They aren't a eurocentric civilization and considering Wakanda has been more advanced than every other one on the planet for millennia I dare say that for Wakanda the use of it actually makes it sound primitive.
So wait, Owen is always hungry right? And that's the plot device for the entire finale, people feeding him. So why the fuck doesn't he just create food for himself, instead of being perpetually hungry!?
The only thing I am feeling is the glee over Hickmanfags being BTFO by how shitty his entire run on Avengers ended ip being. I can't fucking believe how much money people spent supporting this. Just think about it, this entire saga is almost hundred issues long, four dollars a pop, and you get almost nothing tangible out of it.
so in the end all this event was just for hickman to fulfill his reed/doom fanfiction?
>I just want you to love me
>tentacle sex now
This would have been pretty cool end to it all if it actually happened before the release of the all new shitverse.
It wouldn't save the all new shitverse from being shit, but it would have been a nice capstone if the timing was better and everything wasn't spoiled.
because hickman likes the ff, so he ended their run by turning them into gods and having them fix everything.
but the x-men are disliked by the editors evidently.
It's not a matter of copurights, because fox owns both the ff and the x-men.
It's just marvel editors and writers being unprofessional fanboys
Soooooooooo no explanation on ANY of the ANAD stuff? No explanation on how Peter instantly becomes Tony Stark 2.0? Or how how Tony Stark becomes "poor"? Or why Johnny and The Thing are not gods? Or why some universes got merged into 616 and others didn't?
What the fuck was even the point?
So is the explanation for 616 Susan and everyone surviving that the 616 'slice' of Owen still contained all the molecules of that universe so he could just recreate it and bring everyone back? Because if so, why wouldn't he have just done that before? If not, then what is the explanation for 616 being back, that it's not technically 616 it's just a facsimile created by 616 Reed? And he made basically a knockoff 616 Susan to love him? Because that's fucked up, bruh.
>No explanation on how Peter instantly becomes Tony Stark 2.0?
How was it instant? He was already on track to become that pre-Secret Wars. The 8 month timeskip just skipped from "on track to become" to "became."
>Or how how Tony Stark becomes "poor"?
Nope, with Bendis running the Stark show, you're better off just ignoring continuity.
> Or why Johnny and The Thing are not gods?
Because there's really nothing they could have contributed, so Reed and Sue are letting them continue their lives rather than forcing them to throw it away just so they can twiddle their thumbs while watching the others work.
>Or why some universes got merged into 616 and others didn't?
No universes merged into 616. There's just some characters from other universes that got stuck in 616, which, yeah, isn't properly explained.
>Ehh, I preferred Final Crisis. And Infinite Crisis.
But Owen contained all the Owens from the other universes (which is why he's shown slicing off pieces to go to the new ones Reed/Franklin is making) so technically that burger was created by a part of Owen (the 1610 Owen), so it was an Owen made burger.
Jesus fuck, Ribic's tracing is so bad he even traced that one wonky BP face from a few issues ago that everyone made fun of for the pupils.
No, but all of the Owens pre-SW were part of the universal constant of Owen. That's why Doom & the Swans were killing all the Owens and it was bothering 616 Owen every time driving him insane. Because part of him was dying every time. Unlike everyone else, Owen didn't technically have a counterpart, each version of him was just a piece of the overall Owen. That was why he was so special and such a big deal to all of this. They explained it in the Strange/Black Swan/Doom issues in the middle of the event I think.
>How was it instant? He was already on track to become that pre-Secret Wars. The 8 month timeskip just skipped from "on track to become" to "became."
No he wasn't. If anything, Slott was writing Peter as an utter manchild and showing how incompetant he was. His big plan in Volume 3 of ASM was to build the best super villain prison ever.
Just before Secret Wars, the last thing we saw with that was Ghost coming in and fucking his whole company up. Destroying his prison and jacking with all their data.
Then post-Secret Wars.... he's a multi-billionaire... just because?
>I could swear I've seen the second to last panel with Susan before somewhere in this comic.
Dude, you could make a drinking game out of all the recycled panels and poses in this whole series, and die of alcohol poisoning by issue 3. Ribic really shat the bed on this one, and I can't completely blame him, because he's a slow artist and every single editor that thought it was a good idea to put him here without help deserves to be castrated.
>Because there's really nothing they could have contributed
But Reed deemed Sue and his kids as more valuable? Isn't that just him being a dick then?
>No universes merged into 616
616 and 1610 are effectively combined. Miles and Maker were the only 1610 characters anyone (in Miles case, mostly tumblr) cared about. They're now in 616. For all intents and purposes, they're merged.
Did you read the lead up to Secret Wars? There is an Owen in every universe. And they're all simultaneously the same Owen.
Also... are you trying to imply that Miles went back to before the Incursions, grabbed a burger from the Ultimate Universe, then travelled to the time after Secret Wars... which actually negated the Incursions from ever happening in the first place (and conversely, negated the Ultimate Universe from existing) and gave Owen a burger from a now non-existent plane of existence?
>over a hundred issues of build-up for this
when did Namor/BP and Reed/Maker broship happen? did Black Swan or the rest of the Cabal did anything? I feel like this shit neded so much tie-ins that actually had relation to the main story, all this issues feel like it should have had twice more pages
way to phone in, Hackman and ribic
Anon... I find it odd that you're asking if I read the lead up when it sounds like you didn't even read Secret Wars.
Miles put a burger in his pocket before the incursion happened. Later, he gave it to Owen. Owen didn't make that burger because it didn't originate on Battleworld. Just because Owen existed in every universe doesn't mean he made everything in all those universes because, again, he's not eternity.
it's not the food.
It's the fact that they cared enough for him to bring him food.
It's an ancient trope. A powerful god or magician or whatever takes the form of an hungry homeless person and asks people for food or shelter and those who grant it are considered worthy to have some wish granted.
You misunderstood Multiversity, Ultra is metaphorically comicbooks (Superheroes to be exact) as a medium just like how the Gentry are the editorial and such. So if anything the Beyonders are the Gentry.
This has to be the worst event in the history of both Marvel and DC, what the fuck was Hickman thinking? What the fuck were Marvel's editors thinking? What the fuck was anyone involved in this thinking?
I thought every universe was restored thanks to...whatever they're doing. Before someone disagrees with me and says it's a complete reboot, is there any evidence something like Ultimate doesn't still exist even if Miles is gone? Everything else is still around and still has it's right number.
>I thought every universe was restored thanks to
No. Just 616 and select other ones (like Earth-56, the universe that Spider-Gwen takes place in).
>Before someone disagrees with me and says it's a complete reboot
No one is saying its a reboot. Hell, before Secret Wars began, Marvel themselves flat out said they weren't rebooting anything. And they weren't lying.
>evidence something like Ultimate doesn't still exist even if Miles is gone?
The Ultimate Universe doesn't exist anymore. Miles is in 616, along side 616 Peter. There are two Spider-Men now. Both called Spider-Man. Yes. Its stupid as fuck.
>Everything else is still around and still has it's right number.
Tom Brevoort was going on about a reboot and I don't see any evidence in the comics themselves that they don't exist, if anything they fixed everything with Franklin and their local Owen counterpart, wasn't that what the ending was getting at? Or did they decide to just make new universes to send them to? Thankfully you didn't bring up some other changes to 616 that people use to support the reboot/universes merging/whatever idea, most of them can be explained with the time skip.
Say what you want about the plot and the writing, at least the art was undeniably outstanding.
>Tom Brevoort was going on about a reboot and I don't see any evidence in the comics themselves that they don't exist
He tends to shit the bed all the time. Lots of people at Marvel have said it isn't and never was intended to be a reboot. Axel Alonso himself said it wasn't, numerous times.
>Or did they decide to just make new universes to send them to?
That's exactly what Franklin, Reed and Owen are doing.
We went from a vast multiverse, to a single universe (Battleworld) to a small multiverse (post-Battleworld).
Reed and Franklin with their infinite god powers given to them by Owen are just making new universes with anything Franklin can think up.
they're basically gods.
Gods don't think on good/evil terms. They're not creating the universes per se, they're just leaving their seeds and letting them live up to their potentials.
If those potentials make up for horror shit like cancerverse or the zombieverse
well, what can you do?