>>78924612 The first one's good. The second one only really falls down because it puts everybody in weirdly bright costumes and changes all the background crap to match, including the continuity. You can see it on the faces of every actor who was in the previous movies; Gordon in particular looks like he's thinking about his loan payments.
>>78924987 The problem with Robins is that they give Batman a personality other than BROODING ORPHAN, so having one who's a brooding orphan around makes Batman look like an entitled little bitch himself, which has a kind of echo-chamber effect on the relationship, where they both stand around arguing like X-Men over who has it worse.
>>78924987 >>78925618 >>78925841 THIS. I'm honestly the opposite of OP, where I can forgive most of SchumacherBats' creative choices, EXCEPT for fucking O'Donnell Dick who is still the weakest link in both those movies to me.
Hell, he's the single biggest problem with Batman & Robin's script, because the whole movie is about the titular duo needing to get over their issues and trust each other, but literally every time in the movie Dick disobeys Bruce it ruins everything, and everytime Batman tells Dick what to do he's always right. I think those movies more than anything are why I have a VERY low tolerance for when Robins angst about what a meany Batman is, and why I prefer Robins like Tim or Carrie Kelly who genuinely care about helping Batman and aren't just ungrateful hangers-on. I know comics' Robin isn't usually like this, but in the 90s when I grew up, he was Nightwing and seemed pretty close to the whiny, "I'm angry at my surrogate dad" rebellious teenager image I had in my mind. DickBats helped me get past that, but we DESPERATELY need a new mass media portrayal of Dick and his origins to overwrite O'Donnell.
>>78925882 >The second one only really falls down because it puts everybody in weirdly bright costumes and changes all the background crap to match, including the continuity. Uhhh... Batman Forever's costumes and set design were pretty fucking bright and and weird too.
>>78926164 Nothing like as bright or weird as Batman & Robin. They were really going for the '66 aesthetic, at the studio's insistence.
Before that it was just Schumacher's neon fetish, which is why they hired him - audiences for Batman Returns complained that it was too dark, visually and emotionally, so they got a director who already had a track record of telling dark stories in a way that audiences enjoyed. Then they assumed he hadn't gone far enough - because although it was a bigger success, Forever (which is still the fourth most popular Batman release) didn't match the 1989 movie's gross or even come close, so the assumption was that Burton had got lucky in '89 because he'd used the Joker and it was a big deal to have a new Batman movie, but that audiences now wanted a big-screen version of the Batman they were most familiar with.
Which is why Pat Hingle spends the entire movie in uniform despite not having worn one in the previous three movies (and a shitty looking uniform at that - in some prints it's sky-blue) and it's full of kooky shit, and all the characters are reduced to uncomplicated performances that just exist to deliver exposition, whereas the previous three movies at least tried to give side-characters some kind of internal life.
>>78926164 also, since Batman/Bruce Wayne only succeeded in stopping Shreck and the Penguin's plans in Batman Returns, Max Shreck's new power plant - which would produce many times the power Gotham actually required - still gets built, so there's actually a nice bit of continuity there.
>>78927336 What, you mean during the sequence where Batgirl engages in underground street racing? Or when Poison Ivy crashes the charity gala? Or in Woodrue's secret supersoldier lab? Or when Bane fights a bunch of ravers in a delapidated turkish bathhouse?
>>78927336 Yeah, but it's still not the visual motif that most annoyed me about those movies.
It's the fact that EVERY SINGLE TIME somebody uses a grappling hook, Schumacher felt he had to show a shot of the hook actually grappling into something, but it just makes the physics-breaking nonsense even MORE obvious. And it's SUPER annoying by the end of B&R, when you have up to 3 characters individually grappling.
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