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western plots vs eastern jap plots
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I noticed something eastern jap cartoons are about working your ass off to achive your goal and power to beat the bad guy

Western cartoons are about being the chosen mixed halfbreed guy who gets the power by cus you were born that way/accident by chance

What gives
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>I noticed something eastern jap cartoons are about working your ass off to achive your goal and power to beat the bad guy

Yeah remember when Rock Lee beat Gaara? Oh wait
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>>78899144
Or when Goku beat Superman
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>>78899144
This

More than half of all anime protagonists are "The Special Chosen One With Incredible Perks". In fact there's usually a guy on that hero's team whose entire power is "I worked really hard to get strong" and he's still never as strong as the main character, as if to mock hard work.

Solo Golpe Hombre was the exception to this, and he's still "Lol stronger than anything ever, but because I go to the gym."
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>>78899144
>One scene in naruto represents all jap animation
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>>78899121
Because if everyone had special powers then no one would be special.
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What I noticed is more Western cartoons will openly acknowledge when protags win by sheer dumb luck and circumstance whereas in anime they'll often still celebrate a (relatively) unearned victory, although children's shit in the west tends to be equally guilty.
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>>78899121
Crinn Cashim was never a special guy, nor Jiron Amos.

Crinn just so happened to be a soldier-in-training and never got much of the spotlight for the war on Deloyer, Jiron was just determined as fuck and hates/d Timp's guts.

You get a little bit of everything on both sides of the pond. Both Dougram and Xabungle were also fucking great.
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>>78899121
I think that's an oversimplified view. There are lots of cartoons about regular people, after all, or even superheroes who have it worse than other people. On the other hand, there is some anime out there about "chosen ones" - it's kinda painful to watch Dragon Ball and see Yamcha being treated like a ragdoll just because he wasn't born a sayan.

I think the problem is Japanese culture - at least mainstream japanese culture - is all about belonging to a bigger society than oneself, so their cartoons will of course overexpose the "hard work and sacrifice" aspects of the story. Meanwhile American culture is one of exceptionalism, so thir cartoons will overexpose the idea that everyone is special - and since we only follow the main character, he's more special than everyone else.
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>>78899121

Not quite.

Japanese media has just as much chosen one BS. None of the human characters in DBZ, for example, will ever be as strong as any of the Saiyans.

Its just that shonen battle stories, the genre which you are mostly referring to, constantly introduce more powerful enemies over time until the story stops selling or the author dies. So 'training' or something equivalent has to be done each new arc in order to ramp up the protagonist to the new prerequisite power level in order to be able to take on the new big bad, and when the next arc begins everything resets.

Western protagonists are much more likely to have their power level stay pretty much static, with maybe one or two significant upgrades before their story ends. Superman doesn't need to reach a new level of strength every couple of years to defeat the next threat, being superman is already enough to solve most problems.
Western protagonists are much more likely to handle a new and stronger enemy by finding an external way to solve the problem, such as the plot device weapon that is needed to get the kill or some elaborate trap to make the enemy vulnerable so they can be fought on an even footing.
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Like how in bleach the main character is half 3 different powerful things and masters stuff in 3 days.

Or evangelion how the main character is the only one who can sync with the best mech.

Or kill LA kill where shes made of powerful aliens all along.
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If anything, I would say Japanese cartoons tend to lie about how strong the main character's power is, pretending he's powerless.

Oh, he's the lowest ranked wizard ever! He doesn't have any magical power at all, in fact he's COMPLETELY IMMUNE TO ALL FORMS OF MAGIC TO THE POINT WHERE HE CAN KICK ALMIGHTY GOD IN THE NUTS AND YHWH CAN'T DO SHIT ABOUT IT, isn't he such an underdog?
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>>78899121
Generalization Of The Year
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>>78899270
>still celebrate a (relatively) unearned victory,
Like, because of power of friendship/love/will, I can do everything, and the protagonist defeats "bad" guys who are like impossibly powerful in the next few panel.
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>>78899217

> Solo Golpe Hombre was the exception to this, and he's still "Lol stronger than anything ever, but because I go to the gym."

No, they call him out on that. Saitama is very clearly special, in that he showed incredible power even before he started training when he was supposed to just be a normal guy. Its just that no one, not even Saitama, knows why he is as powerful as he is. As far as he knows the only thing he even did to get strong was normal strength training.

He is the only guy in the setting who doesn't know his own backstory.
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>>78899324
Ill have you know ichigo when through long training archs in bleach
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>>78899324
>Or evangelion how the main character is the only one who can sync with the best mech.
There's a reason, though. He's the one who wants to return to the comfort of the womb the most.
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Kind of funny no one mentions this cartoon yet.
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>>78899324

> Or evangelion how the main character is the only one who can sync with the best mech.

The other two are accurate, but Shinji wasn't the only one who could use Unit 01. Rei could also do it, its just that she got assigned to Unit 00 after Shinji showed up and was never in a position to pilot 01 again after that.

Its probably true that Unit 01 would only ever go Berserk mode for Shinji, though. Since thats a result of Yui waking up, and she is probably only ever going to do that for her own kid.
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>>78899324
Or in Naruto he has an ancient demon sealed inside him that makes him stronger than every other ninja
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>>78899339
I'd watch that
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>>78899121
There are a few exceptions OP.

For example, Gohan had his latent powers since his birth due to his Saiyan/human bloodline and was built up as the strongest during the climax of the Android Saga.
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>>78899121
>I noticed something eastern jap cartoons are about working your ass off to achive your goal and power to beat the bad guy

Since fucking when?

>G-Goku trains!

If you follow your own logic other characters in the show are just pussy retards who don't train as hard as Goku when it's clear as day Vegeta, Piccolo and others to be trainning machines as well.

He literally had his last fight with Freeza won due to the gods turning back time and he attacking Freeza from behind bro.
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>>78899121
Being mixed does make you stronger
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>>78899339
This. Anime tends to portray the protagonist as an underdog before revealing he's actually the super special son of the demon lord.
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>>78899474
Inexplicably, Moses has traveled forward in time and now lives in Taro Tsuguyama's apartment! Also, the passage through the sands of time made Moses 12 years old again, and also female!

But she's still an Old Testament prophet who hates being peeked at in the shower!

In cooperation with these sponsors, it's God-Kicker Thou Shall Not Rabu-Rabu!?

Look forward to it!
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>>78899595
This, and OP felt for it.
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>>78899571
Yep, Fairy tail, Naruto, Bleach, wait, hold down. Pretty much most of mangas and even live actions are fall under this category. Those media want to emphasis on "born special" way more than "effort".
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>>78899474

Its exists. Its called a Certain magical Index.

They have this ranking system for their powers, and the protagonist is at the lowest level because he can't do anything with his power at all.

His power is that his left hand can, on contact, neutralize any and all supernatural power or influence of any kind, up to and including miracles. Holding it in front of himself is enough to block fireballs and shit, and he is "unlucky" (bad stuff tends to happen to hi, but wouldnt you know it this never actually seems to matter? Its a flaw that only exists on his character sheet) all of the time because luck is the favor of God, and his land nullifies its effect on him so he never has any good luck.

So, from day one, his power is that he can punch god in the face and no one can stop him. Which clearly makes him a Rank 0 underdog.

As you can imagine, most arcs involve hyping up the bad guy and then "oh wait, nevermind, the protagonist just ignores everything we just said because that's what he does. Crises averted!"
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>I noticed something eastern jap cartoons are about working your ass off to achive your goal and power to beat the bad guy

Not just that. Take Dragon Ball Z and Super as an example:

Vegeta spent his life training by himself because of his arrogance and pride. So he never learned any efficient training methods and just pushed himself until he couldn't stand, healed up, then did it again.

Goku on the other hand trained under the greatest teachers of Earth and Other World, so he learned more efficient ways to increase and hone his power.

So Vegeta never managed to surpass Goku despite being a higher-class warrior (and whenever he did manage to become stronger than Goku, it never really lasted more than, what, a day?) until Vegeta swallowed his pride and asked Whis to train him.

And then Vegeta very quickly became Goku's equal.

So it's not just about working your ass off, it's about recognizing your limitations and seeking help from others to overcome them.
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>>78899571
On a side.note. I seriously hope that they'll change the ending to the Resurrection of F saga in DB Super.
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>>78899324
I thought it was because Shinji's mech had his mother's soul imbued into it. Likewise, Asuka's mech had her own mother's soul.
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>>78899605
That was Noah, Moses was never peeked at.
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>>78899636
Or the protags win bullshit power ups and then beat the bad guy because they got a power up. No strategy or though put into it.

Kamen Rider Gaim made me pissed because the hard working dude who was fighting tooth and nail for the "prize" and was using old tech but putting everything he had on it lost to the guy who was literally chosen to win the war and that kept winning power ups without having to work for it.

In their final battle, we see the hard working guy sacrificing his own body and humanity to achieve his goal, he puts everything in the line while there isn't any doubt the Protagonist will win. He already has the newest, best upgrade. And he wins the fight without much effort.
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>>78899571
>He literally had his last fight with Freeza won due to the gods turning back time and he attacking Freeza from behind bro.

Yeah, but that was Vegeta took too long killing Frieza so Freezy-pop decided to ragequit.
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>>78899655
Also Zero no Tsukaima.

Look at her, Louise the Zero! She's the worst witch ever! She can't even cast a spell, because every time she tries, she causes explosions instead! She can't cast any of the four elements and her familiar is a completely unmagical human, ha-ha!

Except of course it actually turns out that her inability to cast magic is her secretly casting the secret fifth element which is mega divine and basically underpins all other elements, and the nonmagical human familiar is of course marked with special runes that don't work on the usual magical rules and which let him become instantly skilled with weapons and also protect him from magic, etc...
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>>78899144
The point flew right over youre head, It wasnt about him beating Gaara, it was about Rock lee taking everyone shit for so long about being useless when the whole time he was one of the very strongest, if not the strongest.
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>>78899706
I don't.
If it takes them to make DB extra shitty to have their fans turn on this zombie series then might as well. Ever since they brought the series back it's a stream of going through the motions, nothing new or interesting. No creativity or drive.

Let it die. It's already dead.
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>>78899741
Wasn't there a biblical guy who got drunk and sprawled naked in his tent, and then his sons came in and gazed upon his mighty dick, and were cursed for it?
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>>78899664
on the same coin, characters would receive power-ups not through training but through cheap writing.

Piccolo when he fused with Nail and kami

Krillin and Gohan when there potential were awakened by Guru, and again with Gohan with grand Kai.

The concept of saiyans coming back stronger after intense /near death experiences

Goku going super saiyan for the first time

Gogeta being the strongest character via magic earrings
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>>78899770

Rincewind did it first.
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>>78899783
They already made a few noteworthy changes in the Battle of the Gods arc so there's still time to do something different here. Plus everything after RoF is uncharted territory
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>>78899770

At least that one eventually gave us a WW2 fighter plane vs Dragons battle.
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>>78899636
Japanese belief systemshave always placed enormous importance on bloodlines and ancestor worship, so that's to be expected. Look at manga/anime where some foreigner or low-class character finds his own method to power that puts him equal to the protagonist, he's almost always considered a "cheat" and if not a villain, then a rival and foil for the hero.
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>>78899828


>>78899828
>Gogeta being the strongest character via magic earrings

You mean Vegito?
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>>78899121
>cus you were born that way/accident by chance
Like how Naruto worked really hard to have the 9 tails in him?

Or how Goku trained until he spontaneously turned into an alien that was physically superior to all humans

Or how Sarina studied day and night until she got her advanced degree in being a reincarnation of a moon queen.
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>>78899664
Wouldn't the saiyans, a galactic warrior race, have pretty good training techniques compared to shit humans? Also, the most efficient way for them to train is just to fet fucked up almost to death and then healed, so your whole post is based in bullshit
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>>78899804
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was Noah, and it was just one son.

The thing is, the son was black (how did a white guy have a black son? Best left to the imagination) and the curse was slavery. That part wasn't in the bible, though.
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>>78899746
Sometimes, I would rather have a loser but a hard worker protagonist rather than a "born with privilege" main character. Sure, main character can still be "special" on certain circumstances, but I am looking for the effort. Like, for a non /co/ example, Rocky the first movie spends a lot of time on Rocky's personal struggle, especially the amount of time he puts to training, and the struggles that most people are patronizing him. He may not win the match, but he makes audience know that he isn't a nobody.
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>>78900042
It's even more bullshit when you realize Vegeta was never an equal to Goku. He is always one step behind.
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>>78899121
Isn't training made much easier/effective for the protagonist BECAUSE they're special/chosen?
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>>78899969
yeah
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>>78900168

Sometimes, like the main character form that Dungeon anime.

His special power is that, as long as it is towards his special quest goal, he gains bonus xp and levels up faster. But his special goal is to catch up to one of the most powerful adventurers in the setting, so he basically just levels up at 10x speed all the time.
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>>78900026
Goku is the worst example of shit given out to you. Goku ended up being an alien superior to humans, so what? Piccolo also has that.

Goku philosophy of live is to push your limits and be better than you where before. He always is training, all of what he knows is because he had a master or work for it. Others characters like Vegeta (Majin shit) and Piccolo (Fusing) got power ups given to them for not doing anything only to keep up with Goku.

You are 100% right about Naruto, the author must have forgotten hat was his story about and just wanted to do DBZ fights.
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>>78900026
>Spontanious

Nigga he had a tail

What did you expect
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>>78900450
But Goku's guilty of being given a power up for not doing anything with Super Saiyan God.
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>>78900605
You are right and he was ashamed of it. Which in made him train until he got something similar.
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>>78899934
That is kind of sad, doesn't it? Sure, special bloodline and clan are common themes in media, but aren't those concepts discourage the audience. It is like things are predestinated and we cannot do anything about it. People will value the ending more than the process. I sometimes feel eastern media (not just Japan) so distant and unrelated.
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>>78900450
He was handed a victory over on his last movie!
The way he gets "strong" is pretty much incidental to his training since his upper limit is broken every time he dies and comes back. Something a regular Saiyan would probably not do if he wasn't the special saviour of Earth chosen by the gods.

He was handed the SSJ1 out of the author's own butthole and so every other form by creating such bullshit explanation.

Hell while you defended your precious run of the mill shonen protagonist you flat out stated that the series hands over power ups, destroying the fantasy posted by OP.
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>>78899217
>>78899300
What? Goku was supposed to be a shit Sayajin but his obscession with fighting and training made him surpass choosen ones while Freezer was acknowledged by Toriyama that he could have been much stronger but he doesn't train hard enough.

Anime can have chosen one characters but often even those have to bust their asses to get powerful. America's higher incidence of chosen one super heroes probably because of the influence of the Calvinism Predestination.

>>78899324
Shinji could barelly do shit at first. Most of what you mentioned was because of his mother soul. He had to train to get efficient without depending on his mother going berserk.
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>>78900493
Oh, so does that mean the countless animal people are also super-powered aliens? Goku's tail seemed like just another quirk of the animal-people population of Dragonball's Earth.
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Learn to "Star and Moon," OP. Japan just loves the idea of people just destined for talent. The people who do become talented by hard work usually only do so by being "inspired" by the naturally talented.

Ping Pong even has the hardest working character in the whole series just crash and burn because of it.
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>>78900711
Goku died twice m8 and the power up only works with near death experiences, he is not chosen by nobody what are you talking about?

And how exactly did you wanted him to achieve SSJ? His best friend died and you can't use the dragon balls to resurrect people twice, remind you this was before their dragon balls where upgraded or that he knew they had the ones of Namek.

And how other character getting bullshit powerups nullifies that this other is actually working for them?
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Fuck that shit.
Remember how Sasuke represented the people who are gifted and talented, and Naruto represented the underdogs? Remember ho the whole story was about how Naruto was going to beat him to show that hard work pays off?

REMEMBER HOW THEY DREW IN THE LAST FIGHT
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>>78900852
In high competitive fields this is what I usually see. The talented one who doesn't train hard fails. The average Joe to give his best to be on level with the top ones either find a comfortable place and settle down or burn out. The best ones are the ones who combine talent and effort.
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>>78900852
to be fair, Ping Pong is actually excellent and Peco wins in the end
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>>78899121
Are you from Bizarro Earth?
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>>78900720
Japanese culture shows in Anime. Main characters are young kids, highschool age. They are shown to be bust their asses all the time and that Main Characters have harems. Because quite simply. Their economy is reliant on the new generation taking up all the slack and supporting the elderly. The show of hard work is one to condition them that you have to work extremely hard to get anything.

That's why characters who have natural talent and don't have to work hard are lazy and or flippant with their talent. Making them the bad guy. The harem is there in a way to get them thinking, if I put in a ton of work, women will just want me.

The difference for Western is that it is all based on the idea of you are unique. Like an innovator, you do something no one else can and you use that to be successful. Superheroes all have, somewhat unique powers, for most teams, they each do something different and that leads to their success. And when challenged they surpass their obstacles, by using their power more uniquely.

All mediums are a vehicle to instill cultural norms into its citizens. It's always been about what do they want to teach kids.
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>>78900711
>>78899828
To be fair the first super saiyajin transformation wasn't even bullshit. It was just an idealized form of power Vegeta kept spouting, Goku nonetheless achieved it through years of slow building growth, rage was just a way to open up the power he already had. Fusion is the combination of two powers, in other words not too different to teamwork. Vegito isn't strong because of genes, he's strong because he's a combination of two strong characters. Lastly being a saiyajin can be easily excused since they're not really intended to be special for specials sake like a lot of other shonen pratagonists. Example, superman is the last survivor of kryton, therefore automatic power. Not all Kryptonians are altuistic but Supes was never the less an infallible ideal from the start. Saiyajins are always portrayed as bloodthirsty pirates and goku would be weak by their usual standards so its not like he didn't work hard to get where he got compared to supes. I don't agree with OP and it doesn't excuse humans getting sidelined or the number of genuine asspulls that came after the frieza arc but dbz isn't really the worst offender here niether.
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Jap shit always has this once BS reason why the MCs is the best compared to others


In Gundams case its "muh newtypes"
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I think it would be interesting to see a situation where the protagonist's specialness actually causes problems. Like, it makes them a target and their special powers won't necessarily save them.
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>>78899242
>one generalized comment represents all of jap animation
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>>78899773
Except he wasn't the strongest.
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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LT2PwQKTePyAPNHh7myNZ2TC1R0gMt74H8mnLxdSH9g/pub
/tg/ made this, get fucked
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>>78899571
Vegeta never spars, never allows for relaxation time and never studied under anyone.
That is why he loses.
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>>78899121
Immense overpopulation and no room for anyone to grow or be independent... Where men kill themselves on a regular basis

Versus a society with amazing amounts of land per person and entitled attitude.
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>>78899324
>Like how in bleach the main character is half 3 different powerful things and masters stuff in 3 days.
Because he was genetically engineered to be the perfect hybrid by the main villain and Ichigo's own shady-as-fuck mentor.
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(Shitty) Anime MCs being magically the sole one to be able to accomplish x task or gain magic power or whatnot is equivalent to the constant death and rebirth of the same heroes and villians, or the recycling of them endlessly.
Both sides have lots of shit that steal the limelight with you having to dig for the good shit.
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>>78903854
You're speaking of Shounen. Seinen and other anime are not like that special snowflake hidden power bullshit.
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>>78903792
Still beats 90% of the cast without a single effort and is only weaker than fucking Goku.
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>>78903870
Yet another "good anime are better than bad western cartoons" weeaboo
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As alot of people pointed out, OP's cherry picking is so biased that he gets BTFO in the first few posts. Having said that, the general sentiment that "some plots are better than others" is correct. It's not interesting watching a chosen one do nothing to earn his power and flaunt it effortlessly, while everyone can enjoy an underdog fighting his way to the top through hard work.

If I may compare a /v/ example, look at the mech genre. Garbage like Xenoblade X and Gundam push the "special snowflake with the power of love" garbage. While actual fun mech games push a "work hard and earn rewards" scenario, which is infinitely more rewarding in the long run. Games like Chromehounds, Mechwarrior, Armored Core, and indie games like Assault Suit and most stuff by Astro Port are the go-to for this kind of thing.

On the /co/ related side, I'd have to say that Megas XLR is the perfect example of a robot show that tosses out the retarded "chosen one" nonsense. Coop is a likable, normal guy, who just kinda works his way through a given situation. He's no savior or prophesied god child, and infact he gets through most situations through dumb luck, but it's entertaining and never taken too seriously.

We need more of that.
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>>78903896
>Still beats 90% of the cast without a single effort
Full Saiyan genes, he's like 10 years older than Goku anyway and he trains harder than them. Also zenkai.
>and is only weaker than fucking Goku.
Because Goku is the only other full Saiyan AND he spars, relaxs and learns from masters.
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>>78903870
But in that same vein, there's a lot of comics that aren't superhero based, but those are the ones people think of first.
This thread has become shitflinging, and its probably impossible to talk about this subject without some eventual power level argument.
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>>78903870
Tokyo Ghoul is a seinen series you mook
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>>78903823
Actually Japan have plenty of empty land. 60% of the country is covered by forests and many farms are being taken over by forests.
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>>78900042
Nope. Training wasn't really a thing for them. Either they completely dominate the enemy, or they get killed. There was never really any middle ground.
This is why the person with the most resources to train with, decades later, is still only as strong as Frieza's weakest lieutenant.
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>>78903930
>Megas XLR
my nigga.

One punch man aint a son of a demon or some shit. Saitama had a killer workout that he stuck to.
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>>78903930
So you want a mecha pilot who is just Joseph?
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>>78901242
Remember how Naruto is
>the child of prophecy
>a jinchuriki
>son of a member of the Uzumaki CLAN (and the last jinchuriki) and the fucking Hokage
Yeah, such an underdog.
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>>78899595
Man that arc of Yu Yu Hakusho seriously shit the bed.
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>>78899121

Goku made all the Z-Fighters irrelevant on the basis that he was born a Saiyan.

Naruto was pulled back from death itself and told it was his destiny not to fail and given story breaking powers because Kishimoto said so.

Luffy is the son of the most dangerous criminal in the world and the grandson of one of the strongest marines in the world.

Shounenshit is exactly as much about innate talent and lineage.
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>>78904068

Maybe. Depends on how much of a special snowflake he is.
>>
>Neji: the only thing that matters is who your parents are, and whoever has the better parents wins
>Naruto: Nuh uh
>Neji: Yeah huh
>Naruto wins, gives speech about how much of a fuck-up he used to be and how far he'd come by grit and willpower
>turns out Naruto has the better parents after all
Well.
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>>78903948
Weebs always go on about how "n-not all anime is Shounen!" but love to generalize western comics and cartoons.
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>>78904052
His workout isn't that impressive actually.
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>>78903870
>shonen and seinen are genres
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>>78904275

Not to mention Neji dies protecting the main branch like destiny said anyway.
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>>78904207

Not really a special snow flake

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BgqFYrD8UM

Most of his plans he either has a backup plan or runs away to think of another plan hell he managed to trick a fucking god by making the god think everything that was happening he had planned when in reality it was just him talking shit.
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>>78903985
Tokyo Ghoul is not fucking seinen. It's just slightly more graphic shounen.

Seinen is shit like Berserk, Claymore, Vagabond, Blade of the Immortal, Vinland Saga, etc.
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>>78899770

>Zero no Tsukaima

Tabitha is best girl.
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>>78899435
when do we get to see the new shit anon? I mean the new show that will be on adult swim, when will it come out?
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>>78904510
Seinen and shonen are demographics, determined by what magazine you run in.
Attack on Titan runs in Bessatsu Shonen Magazine, which means it's a shonen series.
Vinland Saga started out in Weekly Shonen Magazine.
Claymore has run in Monthly Shonen Jump, Weekly Shonen Jump, and Jump Square - all shonen magazines.
Berserk is in fact seinen, as Young Animal only runs seinen manga alongside its softcore porn.
Tokyo Ghoul runs in Weekly Young Jump, a seinen magazine.
Lurk more, you stupid fuck.
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>>78904732
Also Vagabond is also seinen, because it runs in Weekly Morning, a shonen magazine
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>>78904322
>>78904275
that's so Jewish
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>>78904813
Reminder that Hiashi won and Orochimaru and Kabuto got away with everything
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>anime/cartoon ep about the main character realizing their limitations, go on a spirit quest, and get fucking fit
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>>78899121
>I noticed something eastern jap cartoons are about working your ass off to achive your goal and power to beat the bad guy

No they're about being the blandest guy on the planet and being a self insert for waifus
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>>78899217
When I was first watching Attack on Titan, I was thinking it was going to be "everyone worked hard to kill off the titans But then it turned out Eren was a special one that could turn into a titan and then the anime went to shit
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>>78904468

I liked when he pretended to bail on his friends and disgusted the enemies so hard they came right after him instead so his friends could bail
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>>78904732
/a/non bringing the heat
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>>78900059
> That part wasn't in the bible, though.
Yep, only in the OAV
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>>78905243
>implying the book of mormon is canon
That shit was on joesmith69's livejournal
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>>78903946
Why didn't they just clone goku?
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>>78905506
Cloning literally never comes up in the series, not even with Cell.
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>>78904732
Hm, my mistake. I was unaware those catgories were attached to properties strictly based on the magazine it's published in, instead of the main demographic.
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>>78905570
it came up in Bio Broly
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>>78905652
But that's Bio Broly
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>>78905506
a goku clone would be weaker than raditz. by the time you'd trained a goku clone to be as comparably strong as goku something like thirty years would have passed since you would have had to take the slow route. kamehameha, kaioken, spirit bomb, much of Goku's techniques revolve around getting as much power as possible out of small amounts of energy, which gave him a much more intuitive understanding of super saiyan.

You'd be better off cloning vegeta and putting that clone through goku training.
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>>78902071
He says as he posts a Gundam designed by an American in a show with no newtypes.
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>>78905652
And that's non-canon.
>>78905631
The demographics of a manga are determined by what magazine the author chooses to send it to, and what the editors to decide to do with it afterwards.
Makoto Yukimura originally got Vinland Saga published in a shonen magazine, but apparently he and/or the editors made a decision about content and got it transferred to a seinen magazine.
Sure, there are certain trends of what gets published where, but they aren't ironclad divisions. Until 2004, JoJo was a shonen series. While Bakuman clearly has a shonen mindset, it doesn't deal with a very shonen subject: how to make it in the real world of manga.
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>>78899121
...How much anime do you watch? The vast majority of shonen protags have some sort of special snowflake ability or famous dad
>Goku is an alien
>Yusuke is the decedent of the most powerful demon of all time
>Luffy is the son of a famous pirate and the grandson of a famous admiral
>Naruto has a demon fox inside him and his the son of the hokage and is from a famous clan on his mother's side
>Ichigo is a shinigami-hollow-quincy hybrid, his dad was a captain, and Aizen has been watching him from birth
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>>78906615
Aizen wasn't just watching him, he was manipulating all his encounters.
>Did you really think that's just how life goes? A series of incrementally stronger opponents at just the right time?
>That's something that only happens in fiction
>I made sure you faced exactly who you needed to
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>>78906615
God I really, really fucking hate Bleach and Naruto.
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>>78905506
Goku is only as strong as he is because of buffs. Kaiouken lets you have infinitely stackable power boosts.
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>>78904275
BROKEN AESOP

It's fucking hilarious in hindsight.
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>>78907197
At least Ichigo's spiritual makeup is tied into the plot, rather than it being something tacked on. Urahara was trying to make hybrids, and Aizen was trying to turn himself into the perfect being (probably to become the new Soul King) and he needed a test subject.
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>>78904282
>thatsthejoke.jpg
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>>78906615
And to think all of those (except the fox bit in Naruto) had the protags start off as fairly average to below average guys until 5 years into the story
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>>78907345
Ichigo was abnormally strong for any Soul Reaper from the first chapter.
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>>78907345
>Goku tanked a bullet to the face in the first chapter
>Rukia marvels at how strong Ichigo is in the first chapter
>Yusuke is the toughest guy in multiple schools in the first chapter
>Luffy was destroying ships on his own in the first few chapters with the devil fruit he'd already eaten
>might give Naruto a pass because he really was shit at his job and there was nothing that said he would get Kurama's power other than, well, it's a manga, that's what happens.
Nah.
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>>78907544
>Goku tanked a bullet to the face in the first chapter
And almost lost a fight to a dehydrating starving Indian man in the first tournament
>Rukia marvels at how strong Ichigo is in the first chapter
And gets rekted by a vice caption and subsequently spiritually crippled in less than 5 seconds
>Yusuke is the toughest guy in multiple schools in the first chapter
And almost dies to every low ranked demon in the beginning
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>>78908602
Never bring up Ichigo.
Son of a Quincy and Reaper, some of the strongest if i might add. Has the powers of a Hollow and Fulbringer. Has all the powers.
It was never about training it was all about when someone told him he's 1/2 something else.
He fought and beat GOD and somehow there is still threats left.
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>>78908748
I said start off. Before he was some punk who could see ghosts and borrowed a low ranked scout's powers.
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>>78908748
>It was never about training it was all about when someone told him he's 1/2 something else.
And then he had to train to use whatever he was part of.
>He fought and beat GOD
No he didn't. He beat Aizen.
>and somehow there is still threats left.
There's more than just Aizen who are out to do nefarious things.
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>>78908602
so? that doesn't really mean shit. it's a show. theres no story if the character just blows through everything.

Even if they all have times of being weak, they're still destined for greatness and have enormous hidden power. which is something japs love. The idea of hidden power/greatness everyone doesn't have it, but that one nigga who does.
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>>78909014
The point I was trying to make was that they take a protag that works hard to win and then they go U WUR SPECHUL ALL ALONG
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>>78899121
>noticed something eastern jap cartoons are about working your ass off to achive your goal and power to beat the bad guy
>Western cartoons are about being the chosen mixed halfbreed guy who gets the power by cus you were born that way/accident by chance

This actually works if you only count Guts and Superma- wait, shit, halfbreed/chosen... uh...

If you only count Guts and Blade, you're golden! Which is doubly funny when you try to count the number of half-Vampire protagonists in Anime, but nevermind.
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>>78902154
Vixen, the CW animated 'series'(Aka, the one fucking episode they chopped up because they're cheap assholes)

Bam.
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>>78909533
>half-Vampire protagonists
How do you even become a half-vamp? It's an all-or-nothing condition.
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>>78909696

Usually the mother becomes a vampire while pregnant. The child is affected differently.
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>>78909696
Vampire daddy/mommy fucks a human mommy/daddy, most times? Or they get it 'reversed' but it doesn't actually reverse it, or they are so special that they keep from being 'completely turned.'

Some bullshit where they get to keep all the cool powers and none of the weaknesses. But on that note
>It's an all-or-nothing condition.
According to fucking who?

The star vampires of the highest grossing Vampire flicks of all time fucking SPARKLE. There is no 'condition' unless you feel like it.
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>>78899217
are you talking about Uni-buffet Baldy?
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>>78899365
Fucking secondaries

The webcomic explicitly says that Saitama want supposed to be powerful in any way, he was supposed to be a completely boring stock character

But then he started training and at one point he trained so hard he should have died, but he didnt, and in turn broke his limiter. So everytimes he trains it keeps going on without no bar to stop
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>>78899746

I actually wanted Kaito to be the winner and kick Kouta's whiny ass too. Urobutchi had him die that way because Kaito was supposed to die earlier in the show but the fans loved him enough to keep his character going.

I also heard that's why the Urobutcher killed him, he normally finds the character people like most to kill and gives the win to a lesser liked character.
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>>78909648
That started? This is the first time I even saw it mentioned here, shit
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Japanese cartoons are devoid of anything worthwhile, and are usually relegated to using sex appeal and gratuitous nudity to get anyone to watch.
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>>78910694
You didn't notice the threads we had every time a new segment of the episode dropped?

IIRC, the general consensus was that it was good, but it would have greatly benefited from a longer runtime.
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>>78899121
Well Batman is one of the most popular characters in comics and cartoons, and he's definitely a "work your ass off to get good" kind of guy.
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>>78911041
That is pretty much what happened in the past few years for most animes. If there are no kawaii/moe/pretty characters in a show's roster, then the show is pretty much kill itself.
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>>78911228
>Trust fund baby
>"work your ass off to get good" kind of guy
Pick fucking one.
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>>78911267
You think money exclusively paid for Bruce's gains? Like he went to the fitness store and bought a twelve-pack of abs and eight pounds of biceps?
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I find it kind of interesting no one brings up Toriko as an anime/manga example for all those power ups and training debates. Sure, Toriko (the series) eventually has similar issues, but the titular character Toriko usually got his butt kicks by his opponents.
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>>78900059
I remember it being that the son (Lot) was cursed by having his skin turned black and being told that his descendants would be servants or something to that effect.

iirc, it was often used as a justification for slavery, as the slaves were the "children of Lot" and therefore born for servitude.
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>>78911695

For completeness sake:

>Genesis 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
>9:23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
>9:24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
>9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
>9:26 And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
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>>78900706
People have eaten that shit up forever. The Greeks believed that only nobility were worthy enough to be the subject of tragedies, because shit happening to a lowly peasant doesn't mean anything. All of Shakespeare's tragedies are center around nobility and we hold his writing to be the best in the English writing.

I dunno, maybe us plebs just have massive inferiority complexes.
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>>78899270
ALL Japanese comedies have this plot, "shit just happened to work out because of dumb luck!". It just depends on the genre.
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>>78912337
Especially harem genres and love stories setting.
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>>78903870
There's a bazillion seinen manga that are about men who are just better than everyone else in nigh every aspect and kill tons of bad dudes and have tons of sex, and I'm not talking about recent light novel junk. Check out Offered or Crying Freeman by Kazuo Koike sometime. I'd also recommend Wounded Man to see another example of the male power fantasy common to seinen, but I don't believe anyone has scanned it. It's a trip, though. The Zaizen Jotaro anime (based on a manga by a totally different dude) is also a good example.
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>>78899605
That sounds just awful enough to premier next seaon
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>>78911449
I really need to read that. I read one volume in the middle because some reviewer on ANN was whining about how the violence to animals in one of the volumes was almost too much to handle*. I loved every bit of it.

*It was hardly that violent, and it wound up being beneficial to the monster. I don't understand how some people are so bothered by violence against giant fantasy monstrosities.
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>>78904117
Ugh, don't remind me. It was such a great series before that reveal, too. Yusuke was just a high school delinquent with a talent for wrecking other assholes, then he had to improvise and adapt to fighting the inhuman horrors he's suddenly forced to deal with. Most of his early fights boiled down to dumb luck saving his damned life. He busted his ass to get strong, earned the respect of demons, even became less of a shithead because of it. Then it just comes out with "HAHA NO YOU'RE ACTUALLY HALF-SATAN" and I just stopped caring.
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>>78912786
I think another charm from that manga is its extremely fast pacing. It is so fast, many of training arcs and worldview are glossed through, making the readers the one using the imagination more. Also, the manga barely has any memory arcs or flashbacks to the point the readers actually WANT the author to dedicate more on the flashback.
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>>78903854
Yeah but that's the easy answer we need something to shit about.
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>>78911389
but it did pay for most of his equipment well lets be honest here ALL his equipment. He was also a born genius perfect memory is the greatest detective in that universe is able to file a dossier on every superhero and find and develop their weaknesses if they go rogue. face it the only reason he is an "Aryan master race" poster child that proves eugenics works is because his hair is black not blond.
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>>78899121
well, yeah, most of the western world was born white
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>>78913711
>is able to file a dossier on every superhero and find and develop their weaknesses if they go rogue.
Ok that one's not fair because that's something you really would not have unless you worked on it. And it doesn't take a genius to do it, either. Most of the plans involve either attacking obvious weak points or capitalizing on a character traits.
For example: Superman. Batman knows, like everyone else does, that Kryptonite harms him. In fact, it harms so deeply because he's a Kryptonian, which is the reason he's so powerful in the first place. But he also knows Clark personally, and he could manipulate his well-worn altruistic instinct into de-escalating a conflict.
In fact, he's done it already. Batman had Catwoman threaten to toss Lois Lane off a building because he knew Superman would fight through mind control (courtesy of Poison Ivy) to save her.
And a lot of the other plans seem to be "hero X can be hurt by Y method, which is the specialty of hero Z, get him to do it". It's why they had the idea of the specialist's chair in Grant Morrison's JLA, they had this huge network of superhero contacts to bring in on a mission. The database is already there, all you need to do is have the idea "what if one went bad?"
>>
There's just as much really, it's only more defined in Western cartoons because pacing and so the episodes can be enjoyed in any order instead of just linear order

But then again, there's many other examples and deviations of this, and it really depends on the show and what genre it is.
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>>78913711

You must not be familiar with the character. He was never particularly strong or focused until he walked away from his life of wealth and sought out all of the greatest martial artists/detectives/scientists/warriors/etc. and begged them to train him. It was all he did for years. He's still not the world's greatest martial artist.

He doesn't have a perfect memory, that's Batgirls' schtick. And all that impressive shit you posted he does doesn't come easy. He dedicates a shitload of time to it, to the detriment of his relationships and mental/emotional well-being. He vigorously exercises and meditates in order to keep his mind and body at their absolute peak capability. He's a genius sure, but not in some super-prodigal capacity like Lex Luthor.

His money is useful, sure. It allows him to ascend beyond a mere street-level hero. But it's not who he is.
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>>78903930
Read Gundam - We Are Federation Hooligans, no newtype bullshit, just awesome GM pilot.
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>>78899121
>Batman
>Is motivated by a great personal tragedy and the desire to prevent such a tragedy from befalling others
>Spends his entire life training to fulfill this goal and even then is never satisfied and strives even harder
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>>78899217
I do love it when they play around with it
>Standard edgy as fuck 2cool4this MC with special blood and an edgy birthmark
>Spends all of the season sulking
>Fucks up really bad because of his anger and goes beast mode
>Gets stripped of his Makai Knight status and basically everyone including his dad tells him to fuck off
>Goes through character development
>Literally rips apart his edginess
>Comes back and reclaims his rightful title in a fair sword duel
>Fucks the hot MILF
bretty cool
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>>78902154
every superhero story?
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>>78899339
Isn't that Black Clover?
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>>78899655
So does anyone ever try to take him down through non-magical/supernatural means?
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>>78899300
Wrong again American culture is about waving the flag and fucking the communists who live in other countries. They don't like us well then they are fucking communists. If they aren't well fuck you they are. You sat were wrong about them being communists fuck you you are a communist.
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>>78901644
maybe because I empathize more with Smile, I can deal with Peco winning, but I don't know what I feel about the motivation of Smile really only playing for real to encourage Peco. Even when the moon character starts to do well, the Sun characters have towin in the end. It's the natural order after all.
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>>78899121
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>>78916848
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>>78899121
ARTHUR HAVE YOU SEEN MY CAKE
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>>78916848
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>>78916848
The brutal honest truth.
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>>78908895
>>78908748

Shit, this bullshit is still running?

I remember it was announced to be on its final arc years ago, and then fucking Naruto ends up finishing before Bleach does. Goddamnit Tite Kubo, you piece of fucking shit you.
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>>78916848
So true, it fucking hurts.
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>>78904891
Watch better anime
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>>78918015
Naruto's still trucking. I mean, it 'ended' but they just switched focus to Naruto and Sasuke's kids.
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>>78899270
Historically, western cartoons had an executive mandate of non-continuity. Every episode in syndication had to be viewable with no context, in any order.
So you could watch the pilot, something from S2, and then the s1 final episode and still understand the premise of the show.
This does harshly limit character development, and force any "training" to only exist for one episode.

For example: Donnie is afraid of heights. This has never come up in the show before. Events happen, and he has to save his friends up high. Donnie gets over his fear of heights. A lesson is learned. Tune in next week, and buy the toys.

Contrasted with eastern cartoons, which have been permitted to tell complete narratives since the 70's. Watching three randomly chosen episodes of, say, Dragonball Z out of order will yield an incomprehensible mess.

"So, the short guy with bride of Frankenstein hair killed the bald dude, but he's alive now and he destroyed a remote control for this blonde girl, and then some clown midget exploded and had no impact on this purple chick. What the fuck did I just watch?"

It's differing executive mandates.
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>>78904885
I'd want to see more of this. it'll finally tell this generation some modesty in their faces
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>>78918092
The nightmare never truly fucking ends, then.
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>>78900781
>trying to convince yourself this much

Noone else had a tail anon, it was implyed from the beggining
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>>78918050
That's still pretty hurt to do when 90% of this shit is crap.
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>>78904275
Then Naruto's kids turns out to be powerful too because of genetics.
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>>78916848
ayy
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>>78916817
But I actually am a communist. Feels good knowing that capitalism simply cannot continue to structurally survive without socialism or war.
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>>78899804

If memory serves correct, the true meaning of that phrase means that Lot fucked his mom and back then that was more of a symbolic kind of thing where he's trying to establish dominance over his father, no, down boy it's not a fetishy thing, and thus Noah got pissed at him.
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>>78900026
>Sarina

Anyway, it's supposed to be screwed up and tragic that such a lazy, hopeless girl is given the role she is.
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>>78919082
Admittedly, the original creator, Kishimoto, doesn't work on it anymore.
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>>78915797
Zoro was a shit father.
>>
Yugioh arc-v is a good anime.
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>>78901242
Naruto should have ended with the pain arc

>was training so that he no longer would depend on the kyuubi
>Became the hero that he wanted to show Konaha he could be.

that would have been a perfect ending for him...but no...we had to have the great ninja war.
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>>78916817
Are you still stuck in the cold war or something?
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>have super powerful demon inside of him
>demon doesn't allow him to die, so it heals all injuries
>Bored with life because he can't have the thrill of adrenaline.
>becomes villain for 40 episodes
>becomes hero for 2 episodes
>The main villain tries to extract the demon
>Using his will power he literally burns the demon inside of him
>With out the demon, all previously healed wounds open up, killing him.


Did Mikoto do "Special Chosen One" correctly?
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>>78899144
He did eventually have his rematch with Gaara, and win, in the Rock lee manga.
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>>78916848
Honestly, i have more trouble believing God doesn't exist than this.
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>>78916848
Kek.
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>>78916817
>and fucking the communists who live in other countries
Well yeah, because they're hot Russian grills.
As opposed to the communists who live in America, who are ugly.
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>>78918015
>I remember it was announced to be on its final arc years ago,
That means nothing, considering how long Soul Society and Hueco Mundo arcs went. Final arc just means final arc, not "we're ending soon"
>>
Probably because Japan still has a caste system

A pocket of Japanese society is believed to be inherently superior to everyone else, including other countries or races
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>>78907269
>Yoh: Ghosts are people too, they're not just tools or weapons!
>Amidamaru ceases to be more than a tool
>Bason stays a tool
>Tokagero basically disappears
>Mic and Morphea don't speak at all
>5 high spirits acquired as if they were just powerups, they have no personalities
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>>78919615
>Noah
>Lot
You fucked up.
>>
Because the elevens for the most part are still all about hard work. You usually only see wish fulfillment junk where the MC is born a special little snowflake in pandering garbage. Despite the arguments about Goku, all he ever does is train and he started out weaker than Roshi. In addition to that, if he didn't train the villains from space would have wrecked him. Of course if there's a harem, the MC is gonna be a selfinsert for lazy otaku, just like Superman.
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>>78925594
All Goku ever did while flying to Namek was train instead of fucking around like Krillin and Gohan.
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>>78925594
>Of course if there's a harem, the MC is gonna be a selfinsert for lazy otaku, just like Superman.
Superman doesn't have a harem, nor is Superman a self-insert.
Why?
Because Superman is better than you.
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>>78925689
My point about that was Superman didn't do anything to earn anything. He doesn't exactly offer much of a message of "work hard" as he does "just wait, it'll come".
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>>78925594
The only harem MC I ever liked was Ranma, because he's three dimensional enough and he's a huge asshole in an amusing way.
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>>78925729
>My point about that was Superman didn't do anything to earn anything. He doesn't exactly offer much of a message of "work hard" as he does "just wait, it'll come".
What makes Superman truly special is his sense of justice, of right and wrong. He's really good at being good because he's made a habit of it by doing a lot of good as often as possible.
And if you don't think good is harder than evil, you haven't lived very long.
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>>78925784
>What makes Superman truly special is his sense of justice
No, what makes him special is his ability to apply justice.
>And if you don't think good is harder than evil, you haven't lived very long.
I find doing evil harder personally, but I think it's because I'm not a shitty person.
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>>78899121
I really like when they do both.
>You have a one in a million potential, but you still gotta work hard for it.
Makes it much more palatable for me.
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>>78925833
>No, what makes him special is his ability to apply justice.
Not really, because there are other beings of similar power who are not nearly as altruistic.
>I find doing evil harder personally, but I think it's because I'm not a shitty person.
Remember, petty evils are still evils. So are lies and arrogance.
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>>78901839
>The harem is there in a way to get them thinking, if I put in a ton of work, women will just want me.
Manga, anime, games and light novels aren't created by some government committee in an effort to steer the populace in the right direction, and in harem works there usually isn't any sufficiently compelling reason why everyone wants the main character's D (and there doesn't need to be).

>All mediums are a vehicle to instill cultural norms into its citizens. It's always been about what do they want to teach kids.
A very, very large portion of Japanese media is not directed at children.

>>78904277
Well it's a lot easier to generalize American animation when it has such a narrow range.

>>78911041
This is a myth. The amount of "fanservice" in anime is overstated, and its commercial viability is likewise overstated. The top-selling shows have little to no "fanservice."

>>78911239
Bishoujo characters have been popular since forever. There's absolutely nothing new about them, and they are in all kinds of shows, including shows intended for girls.
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>>78925885
>Not really, because there are other beings of similar power
>There are people stronger than Superman in superman comics
>>
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>>78918000
>>78918031
>>78924433
>people taking this bait pic seriously
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>>78925915
>>
>>78925902
I actually think cartoons today have much more fanservice than anime, just replace "titties" with "shipper bait" and you got it.
>>
>>78925915
Looks like it
>>
>>78911921
Also probably helps that the nobles have cash money with which to sponsor storytimes.
>>
All these fags citing mainstream shonen to shit on Japs, when one of the biggest franchises in Japan stars kids who start off as fucking chumps but progress into being total badasses as they garner more experience.

I seriously hate East vs West nonsense, but if you're gonna make comparisons, don't cherry pick.
>>
>>78925910
Darkseid and Mister Mxyzptlk immediately come to mind.
Superman has never been "the strongest evar". If he goes against something cosmic or extradimensional, he's fucked. He always has to find another way to beat them that isn't punching.
>>
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>>78926048
Setsuna best Gundam
>>
>>78926048
Especially since Amuro learned to pilot by reading the fucking manual.
>>
>>78926096
Does Superman win in the end?
>Yes
Point proven
>No
Is it a Superman comic?
>No
Point proven
>Yes
Sauce.
>>
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>>78926048
>My first experience with Gundam was Wing.
>Then I decided to look in deeper
>Expect flashy robot fights, but instead got the horrors of war AND flashy robot fights
>mfw Victory Gundam
Turn A and Build Fighters was healing for me. It's funny to me how people dismiss giant robots are escapism when a lot of them get really dark, even the Super Robot series.
>>
>>78925991
Just about any anime will get fan art and fan manga depicting the characters in relationships.
>>
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>>78926048

Japan's biggest franchise stars a kid who's the naturally gifted chosen one. Of course, this is subverted by the fact that he finds being an ace mech pilot to be awful.
>>
>>78926145
He's shown to have spent most, if not all, of his free time working with electronics since his dad did the same.
His first experience using the gundam is fucking up and not knowing what to do, only surviving by the Gundam's resilience.
In fact most of the first half he endures because the Gundam is just too tough.

However he doesn't stagnate and eventually becomes a legitimately top-tier ace pilot.
>>
>>78926177
>Superman winning not via his inborn strength but by lateral thinking somehow doesn't prove the point
>Darkseid and Mxyzptlk do not appear in Superman comics
>needs sauce for Darkseid wrecking Superman's shit and tricking Mxyzptlk into saying his name backwards when that's literally every comic they appear in
u wot m8
>>
>>78926229
Shinji was literally chosen by his father, but not gifted by any means.
The gift is only from the fact the EVA he's piloting is his mother.
>>
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>>78926229
>Shinji
>naturally gifted chosen one
>>
>>78926229
>naturally gifted
He's the only one who can pilot the EVA because it's his dead mother. The mother he saw killed at the age of 3 by his dad that led to his fucked up sense of self. He also gets wrecked a lot.
>>
>>78926229
The only reason Shinji pilots the Eva is because his mother's soul is bound to it., he's really mediocre at it otherwise. He's the direct opposite of "naturally gifted"
>>
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Simon from TTGL wasn't gifted or a chosen one.
He just happened to be born at the right place and have the right influences.
Everything else was earned through grit and pure stubbornness, which eventually grew into wisdom.
>>
>>78926243
My point is Superman did nothing to earn his power, the only thing that makes him special. At least one of the Green Lanterns studied architecture to improve the stuff he makes. That's SOMETHING. Superman did NOTHING but be a special little snowflake. He never had to try to be strong, he just was. He's the original Mary Sue.
>>
>>78926229
Amuro Ray is a much better example of "naturally gifted anime protag than Shinji"
>>
>>78926324
Simon is a case of "huge potential", but you are right about influences. If it wasn't for Kamina, he would be still drilling in his shitty town until old age.
>>
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>>78926048
Only semi-related, but I just want to add that watching A Baoa Qu from the perspective of a Zeon mook, Amuro is a fucking BEAST.
Too bad I don't have any webms.
>>
Arguing about shounen anime protagonists is probably the most boring anime-related topic I can think of.
>>
>>78926374
If anything, watching Kittan's sacrifice shows that everyone has the same potential as Simon.
They just need the right push.
>>
>>78925885
Im still not evil
>>
>>78928216
That's just what an evil person would say!
>>
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>All this crit against anime

>No crit against cartoons

If your not a mixed halfbreed or the chosen one in cartoons your fucked

>gwen from ben 10 was a girl who worked to use her magic, but then was rewritened to be a halfbreed alien using lifeforce energy

>steven universe is a half gem half human

>danny phantom is half ghost half human halfa

They even made a big deal to call danny a "halfa"

>raven is a mixed half demon half human

>cyborg is half robot

>young justice beastboy is half martian

So basicly being mixed makes you better and stronger.
>>
>>78928576
>So basicly being mixed makes you better and stronger.
inb4 /pol/
>>
>>78928576
>So basicly being mixed makes you better and stronger.
/pol/ was right.
>>
>>78928916
Actully thats the opposite of pol

/Pol/ was wrong
>>
>>78929159
/pol/ was right about race mixing being ingrained into American society.
Not that I mind, I find black girls pretty ugly.
>>
>>78899720
And in KLK's case, it's to strengthen the main characters' connection by making them related too. Family and legacy are VERY important themes in Asian storytelling.
>>
>>78928576
Danny, Vic and Garth acquired those instead of being born that way.
>>
>>78928576
However, like the animus, you have to consider the nature of the series' given struggles.

SU for instance starts with Steven being a dumb kid who is too eager to follow in the footsteps of his gay alien mothers but in spite of his birth nature it takes forever for him to learn to use his powers even a little proficiently, and he has to shoulder the bad feels of inadequacy while simultaneously trying to balance the cynical horror of knowing just how fucked the Gem side of his heritage can get with his human childishness and optimism in trying to believe in others who may not deserve it.

There's been mention of a mix of hard work and talent being best, and I don't even care if ya'll niggas throw a fit, Steven is a good protagonist.
>>
>>78929325
No, that is just made up bullshit you oh so coincidentally tried to force into the situation
>>
>>78929513
Again, they are lucky chosen ones in addition
>>
>>78926195
The '70s super robot shows were interesting. One episode would be about a guy trying to impress a girl, and the next would be about one of the main guys having to kill their childhood friend because they're in cahoots with the bad guys.
>>
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>>78928277
>>
>>78930005
Mazinger Z was a bit like that. Even in the softened Toei anime, half the time the robot got wrecked and Kouji in bandages, the season finale ended with the complete defeat of the good guys. My 6 year old brain couldn't handle it.
Nagai and Tomino didn't hold back.
>>
>>78930005
Getter Robo is still one of the best manga I have ever read and Giant Robo OVA is the actual best japanese animated thing ever. Giant robots are the best.
>>
>>78914900
>>78915727
Real niggas.
>>
>>78913295
That was just the icing to me. What really pissed me off was

>People with strange new powers start showing up all over town
>These "Territory" powers are a little more complex than what they had been dealing with previously
>Oh cool, all the fights up until now were pretty straightforward, I can't wait to see how a bunch of brutes like Yusuke and Kuwabara will make it out of these-
>Climactic battle is a Dragonball Z fight
Didn't help that Sensui had like 4 or 5 Mary Sue traits stacked on him that really amounted to nothing in the end.
>>
>>78901839

The way characters spend a lot of time training to win (even if it's because of some last minute power up or predestination) actually reflects Japan and it's idea of discipline and improving
Many shonen protags are morons because of this (one of many reasons)
Nips think thhat discipline overcomes intelligence
>>
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>>78926363
>My point is Superman did nothing to earn his power, the only thing that makes him special
Nigga fuck off
>>
>>78932169
Pa kent get off of /co/

And watch your health
>>
>>78925902
>Bishoujo characters have been popular since forever. There's absolutely nothing new about them
This cycle seems extremely contradicting in so many ways. Audience want something new for the creators. Writers introduce something new, but without bishouji/kawaii characters. Then the audience give up right away.
>>
>>78916712
I don't think so. There was this one fight where he was facing a dude that could manipulate vectors (basically can move any object). anyways the guy was throwing the steel beams that are used for building skyscrapers at the MC. MC just "nullified" it for some reason. Even beams and pipes that were coming from above which had the force of gravity and weigh a lot more than him. MC also manages to block objects moving at the speed of sound even though he is just as fast as a regular human being. After surviving that shit he taunted the vector dude into a fist fight and it was a close fight where MC won. surprise surprise. He doesn't even contribute a lot to the plot just le i'll take care of this don't cry anymore. that's literally all he has going for him. what a fucking faggot

>>78899655
The worst thing about this anime is that if they just removed him completely and everything stayed the same this anime would be fucking great. Railgun is miles ahead of this piece of shit.
>>
>>78931733
People complained about the Territory stuff in Japan because they thought it was too similar to JJBA's Stands. It was doomed from the start.
>>
>>78933835
>MCs can't melt steel beams
>>
>>78933835
So this guy is basically: >>78916848
>>
>>78933835
I don't remember him blocking steel beams in that fight.

Anyway, the rest of him is just a regular dude.
>>
>>78934197
I thought they were supposed to be an homage.
You know, how the Fullbringer Arc in Bleach was an homage to Chapter Black, right down to Stand-like powers
>>
>>78934325
i'm pretty sure he did though i havent watched it in a while so i could be wrong.

>>78934317
pretty much. he's probably the most boring main character i have ever seen
>>
>>78934355
People still wrote him hate mail, saying he was ripping off JoJo. He discusses in a doujin Yoshirin de Pon. A shame, too; I really like the Territory stuff. Although, I still do love the final battle between the gang and Sensitive. It's so good in the manga.
>>
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>>78899121
>Western cartoons are about being the chosen mixed halfbreed guy who gets the power by cus you were born that way/accident by chance

That's hardly a western-exclusive thing.
>>
>>78926048

Dude, did you even watch the shows?

Armuro Ray was Newtype. He didn't have to work to become one. He was born with the ability to beat normal people and capable of piloting fancier robots that normal people can't.
>>
>>78899121
>chosen mixed halfbreed guy who gets the power by cus you were born that way/accident by chance

Naruto?
>>
>>78935381
Did you? Amuro is only saved by the strength of his suit early on.
Then he gets gud. Then gets newtype and RAPES.
>>
>>78926363
>power level fags
>>
>>78899144
Naruto used to be a hard worker, until his father ended up being the fourth Hokage and he got a hundred powerups for being the reincarnation of the six path's son.
>>
>>78934197
Coincidentally that's exactly why I loved the Territories.

JoJo's fights may make some incredible asspulls from time to time but the fights usually aren't straightforward and do a lot of interesting things which is why they're so great.
>>
>>78899121

Are you from Counter-Earth? Because this shit is all reversed
>>
>>78899144
/thread
>>
>>78899468
Yes, but the instability of the demon fox's chakra is what made him have trouble in the first place. Even if he didn't have the Kyuubi sealed inside him, he would still be powerful given that he was the son of the 4th Hokage.
>>
>>78905822
And with the most insanely OP Gundam it can probably beat some super robots.
>>
>>78938705
>>Yes, but the instability of the demon fox's chakra is what made him have trouble in the first place
Wasn't that because of the seal that he had printed on his stomach?
>>
>>78938142
And he had a clan. A CLAN. Of all things.
>>
>>78938705
>>78939146
The reason he had trouble early on in the manga was because Kurama hated everyone and everything and refused to work with him unless Naruto's motives (stay alive, beat the bad guy) were in line with his own (kill everyone).
He kept trying to tap into the power but he always lost control - that is, until he actually learned how to confront Kurama head on inside his own head and took the power for himself. After that it was just a matter of talkign him down and realizing the biju were actually not monsters.
>>
>>78940012
What is the significance of a clan

Every ninja has a family clan
>>
>>78899121
>Western cartoons are about being the chosen mixed halfbreed guy who gets the power by cus you were born that way/accident by chance
You mean like Naruto, Bleach and One Piece
>>
>>78940227
They all worked hard at their strenghts to get better

Not like superman, wonderwoman, transformers, whatever
>>
>>78940302
>They all worked hard at their strenghts to get better
>smilling shinigami,hollow,quincy and now god blood ichigo.jpeg
>>
>>78940349
You only took 1 example from 3 posted
>>
>>78940180
>Every ninja has a family clan
No, they don't. Most of the ones we know do, because they're important, therefore they have a clan.
Out of all of Naruto's peers, the ones who were the most useless and had the worst win/loss record were Rock Lee, Sakura Haruno and Tenten. Not only do they not have clans to speak of, we've never even seen their parents. In fact, the only parents of ninja we have seen are those who were ninja themselves.
>What is the significance of a clan
Clans provide prestige, inborn abilities and traditionally-taught techniques - all things Sasuke, Kiba, Neji, Hinata, Choji, Shino, Shikamaru, and Ino had at the beginning of the series, and Naruto, Sakura, Lee and Tenten did not. Tenten doesn't even have a last name.
>>
>>78940604
What are they all orphans or is this just specuitive cus we never bothered to see them
>>
>>78940694
>What are they all orphans
As far as we know, the only orphans of the peer group are Naruto and Sasuke. Sakura mentioned having parents.
It's not that they don't have families, it's that they don't have illustrious old-money ninja families and therefore we never see them because they obviously don't matter because family is all that matters.
>>
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All main characters suck.
>>
>>78943872
I feel stupid but I just realised MC was for main character and not emcee as in, a host.
>>
>>78944162
If it makes you feel better for a while I read it as emcee as in a rapper
>>
>>78899121
What about Tron: uprising?
>>
>>78916712
Sure. A SWAT team has actually the record for his quickest defeat. Also a lot of times he gets his ass kicked by people whose magic is "I can move faster than sound" or similar. Aqua was "just" a fuckhuge guy with a three meter mace and Touma could do nothing against him.

He usually still survives because of Solar Exalted level diplomacy, a lot of allies, a very developed spider sense, the fact that he's the main pawn in the setting chessmaster and the fact that his hand is actually the sigil of an "End of the world" level demon, so every time someone tries for the obvious solution of removing his and he regret it very fast.

They still lie a lot on him being the "weakest".
>>
>>78900450

Look, Saiyans Beat Everyone is not the internet being unreasonable. It's what happens in the series. As the series goes by, everyone who is not a saiyan is absolutely forgotten. It doesn't matter how hard Piccolo or Krillin decide to train. They will never measure up, because they don't have the monkey thing. End of story.,
>>
>>78902154
Medaka box, Eva in a sense, Berserk, The entirety of stand users in Jojo, Garo the animation.

There is plenty of shit like that, but while the main /a/ user only knows the mainstream of /co/ shit, you guys only know the mainstream of /a/ shit
>>
>>78899217

There's also Kenshin. Kenshin wasn't any big chosen one or anything. He just was the dude that was lucky enough to be picked up by the best swordsmanship teacher. And then he went on to beat a lot of dudes... until he found out other people who had also learned legit styles instead of random hooligans, and stuff suddenly became a LOT more close with Kenshin often having to get bailed or ending up basically in the hospital after every fight. And at any point his master could still kick his ass.
>>
>>78926305

Well, he does get a lot better. Let's be honest, when Shinji actually gets his head in the game he seems to be a fairly competent pilot.
>>
>>78921952
Well, the fact you believe in an all powerful god...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWZifSXlzlI
>>
>>78926229
Gundam is Japans biggest franchise, no matter how huge Eva may be, Gundam has more overall merch and rakes in more money than Eva.

And before you say bullshit think Gunpla, or Gundam models, Or the Big ass statue, Or multiple museums, or the fact that it is considered a cultural item
>>
>>78925594
>elevens
Really, Schneizel, you got nothing better to do than post on a basket weaving forum?
>>
>>78935381
Amuro is far from the only newtype in the series, There are quite a few stronger than him in various ways.

Amuro is good because he is the fucking veteran or 3 full on wars and has been piloting mobile suits longer in conflict than most others. Most of the Os's of Feds suits use his fucking combat data.
>>
>>78940457
Son of the hokage and super duper demon inside.
Luffy gets a pass.
>>
>>78947333
Naruto was still shit untill he worked himself

Infact he constanty rejects the tails beast power saying he can do it himself

Oh yea and in the entire first series he only used the foxes power once vs sauske

Shippuden is a longer series but as far as i have seen hes only used it on his first mission with Sai.

Within hundereds of episodes using the power once or twice is not that much
>>
>>78948457
Naruto surprizingly isnt using the 9 tails at all

In the whole series has Dbz level tention leading up to using the power one time in the first naruto series

Its a great realization, hes really not a mary sue its just really good build up up.
>>
>>78948824

He actually used it a few times.

Most egregious was that one fight against Neji, which was externally about hard work versus innate birthright gifts... and Neji wiped the floor with Naruto until he used the Kyubi's chakra, which was put into him at birth.
>>
>>78904732
>Weekly YOUNG Jump, a seinen magazine

Sasuga nippon
>>
>>78899121
I think your confusing west with the east.
>>
>>78947333
>Luffy gets a pass
>son of a notorious infamous pirate lord
>also born with the D initial, making him special
Yeah no
>>
>>78949753
Many seinen mags have "young" in the title.
>>
>>78946149

If thats how you measure it, sure. But that has less to do with Gundam's popularity as a franchise and more to do with the fact that Bandai would literally poof out of existence if they let anyone forget Gundam existed. Their entire business requires them to make sure that Gundam is always coming out and always being advertised with publicity stunts, because Gundam is a commercial for their product.

Before Disney bought marvel, no other franchise in the world had that same level of backing and force feeding.
>>
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>>78899324
>Or evangelion how the main character is the only one who can sync with the best mech.
I can't recall when I last saw someone miss the point this fucking badly

How do you miss the point this badly?
>>
>>78949798
>son of a notorious infamous pirate lord
He's the son of a infamous revolutionary and there are other characters who have the D who are could be considered more powerful than Luffy.
He also has a goofy as shit power that he uses in increasingly bullshit ways that he discovers through hard work and practice.
There is some super heritage garbage going on, especially with his initial use of haki but basically every fight in the series is won through Luffy's refusal to give up and the power of friendship, not his connection to Dragon.
>>
>>78949909

Right? Even if you take that for granted that Shinji is the only one who can use Unit 01 (which isn't even true) Shinji fucking FAILS. He doesn't overcome his personal conflict in time, he fucks up the heroes journey and flunks out of bildungsroman.

Despite his efforts, Shinji isn't strong enough (personally or emotionally) to prevent every single person on Earth from being killed in Third Impact.

He does managed to leave a back door open so that maybe one day the world will be unfucked a little bit at a time, but that's all he can do.

Anyone who calls Shinji the chosen one has standards so low that the term has no meaning anymore.
>>
>>78948917
The whole manga is pretty hypocrite, he said that hardwork can beat birthright gifts, but at the end you learn that Naruto is ninja jesus because he is the descendant of the super powerful guy who created the ninja.
>>
>>78949935
Conqueror Haki is also one of those things that even if twenty people max in the world have it it's basically guaranteed that all of those twenty are going to be in the New World. So it's rare as fuck if you count civilians but it's relatively common within pirates and high ranking ufficials.

And all that it does is to wipe the battlefield of minions, while doing basically nothing against enemies that actually matters.

Also it's been clear that having the D doesn't mean that you have special abilities or birthrights or similar. It means that you have the right attitude and personality to be a person able to change the world.
>>
>>78950110
>Also it's been clear that having the D doesn't mean that you have special abilities or birthrights or similar. It means that you have the right attitude and personality to be a person able to change the world.
The patriarchy in a nutshell
>>
To be fair Japan does have one Protagonist who is pretty much work the fuck hard.
Guts.
>>
>>78932405
>Audience want something new for the creators
Absolutely Western statement. Otakus are more than happy being shat the same 3 or so archetypes season after season for the rest of their sweaty lives.
>>
>>78951274
I really hope Guts gets a bit of respite in the end. If anyone deserves a good ending, it's him.
>>
>>78926195
>tfw expect "bikes of the middle ages" to be some silly fun

I was wrong. So wrong.
Victory was great.
>>
In the east they have hardwork. Tons of it. What they don't have is something to differentiate themselves from the rest of their homogeneous societies. In instilling cultural norms, hard work will be a given. For loser fantasies, inherent specialness will be a given. In some, muh ancestry will be a given.

Take that as you will.
>>
>>78952079
Eh, you nail it. Mine statement was kind of wrong, sorry about that on that, especially on the second statement. Anyway, either jokes or memes, the discussions on /a/ are pretty much the same things overall, as well as the same comments.
>>
>>78945946
This is the problem with east vs west threads. People are comparing the best of their side with the others' bottom of the barrel shit.
>>
>>78946056
Well, you could do the same to anyone, kill their mother and put her soul into a mech then have that person pilot the mom-mech. Result would be the same, pilot is irrelevant, the high compatibility between pilot and mech (which is really a cloned giant alien with armor plating) is what matters. Pilot doesn't even need to be conscious or operating the controls. At the end of the series it's shown that pilots were never needed in the first place.
>>
>>78916023
Not exactly. I was thinking more along the lines of a situation where the character would legitimately be better off without it.
>>
>>78952079
Ironically this is an absolutely Western statement too. Westerners have a pathological need to stereotype and demonize otaku and avoid saying anything about them that might actually be true.
>>
>>78899387
>long training arcs
>characters comment on how little Ichigo has to train to attain his powers
>>
>>78957139

>Humans have a pathological need to stereotype and demonize
>>
>>78957380
I was specifically talking about Westerners and otaku.
>>
>>78900711
>He was handed a victory over on his last movie!
After he got his ass handed to him to the point a laser could injure him.
He fucking did a sneak attack on Frieza at the end.
>>
>>78904084
Speaking of "prophecy children"
>harry potter
>set up that harry was the prophecy child destined to defeat voldemort
>that and the fact he survived voldemort made him famous
>final battle
>it was Neville who was the prophecy child
>the prophecy lines up with his story too
That's some Kubo shit pulled off by Rowling
>>
>>78908748
>He fought and beat GOD
No he hasn't.
Yet.
>>
>>78908748
>He fought and beat GOD and somehow there is still threats left.
People do that every day on the Internet.
>>
>>78950019
Honestly, Naruto is filled with contradictions, it's best not to take any morals or lessons in that series seriously.
>>
>>78957704
That's why no one should pick up Naruto.
At this point the people who followed it original are just along for the ride at this point.
>>
>>78957581
That's like a 9/10 on the Kubo scale.
>>78957375
>characters comment on how little Ichigo has to train to attain his powers
Someone hasn't actually read Bleach.
With Bankai, Urahara had figured out a way to cheat and bypass the usual centuries of training. And Renji Jobarai STILL got to Bankai first.
With the Visoreds, they established that while you're inside your own head trying to gain control over your inner Hollow, your physical body is getting taken over by the Hollow itself, and if you don't win within the time limit, you Hollowfy permanently. Ichigo just barely won in time.
With the Final Getsuga Tensho, Isshin had figured out a way to use time magic to get a year or more of training done in a few hours. Ichigo aged a year inside the Dangai while he trained. It was basically the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.
With Fullbring, same thing as FGT, except with video game pocket dimensions and the benefit of years of experience training and using spiritual powers.
With his true Asauchi, nothing he did was working and Renji finished first, again. He had to leave, learn about his past and get his head straight first before he came back and tried again. While that happened, Soul Reapers were getting ganked by Quincy and Rukia (among others) was wondering where the fuck Ichigo had gone.
>>
>>78899121
>about being the chosen mixed halfbreed guy who gets the power by cus you were born that way/accident by chance
Right, because most anime sure isn't like that.
>>
>>78901839
>All mediums are a vehicle to instill cultural norms into its citizens. It's always been about what do they want to teach kids.
Nigga, the syringe model was disproven back in the 40s.
>>
>>78903930
>We need more of that.
You're most probably right, but the questions are, would it catch on? Would it sell?
>>
>>78957842
>With Bankai, Urahara had figured out a way to cheat and bypass the usual centuries of training.
Yeah no. Urahara being the scientist he was was determined to find the shortest amount of time to attain bankai. That number being three days using the Tenshintai to bypass the communication part of attaining bankai not the physical training as the communication is the hardest part to the point where vice captains don't get along with their weapons.
Yoruichi also commented on how Ichigo has the ability to attain it instinctively which is backed up by later events. Such as the entire Hueco Mundo arc where he mastered his Hollowfication instinctively than through training.

>With the Visoreds
Who also mentioned that Ichigo went through the Bankai training quickly mind you.
>and if you don't win within the time limit
>time limit
There isn't a set time limit, they were going by an estimate based on Hyori's time with that being the longest of the most of them. The reality is that it's determined by the strength of the hollow and the strength of the person fighting against it. Ichigo's hollow being a fairly strong one as it was an experiment by Aizen using many Shinigami souls and can use a Cero despite not being at the menos stage.

With the Final Getsuga training, Ichigo had the equivalent of 2000 hours of training due to Isshin's Kaikyo Kotei in the Dangai which is just about three months not a year. The majority of that training was supposed to be the communication type rather than fighting with his Zanpakuto as Tensa Zangetsu wasn't trying to fight him. But we know Ichigo isn't the talking type exactly so that took him an extremely long time.

>With Fullbring, same thing as FGT
Except it wasn't, the first training he went through was the exact opposite in the sense that he either awaken the powers or die to the Pig. The pig having a 15 minute time limit on it before he transforms and the area having a 30 minute time limit before exiting.
>>
>>78899121

Nah, anime is all about special snowflakes. Pay attention to when the MCs are walking around in typical Japan/surrounded by extras. The MCs are typically more colorful, more KAWAII, and overall more unique. Every MC who isn't designed entirely to be a self-insert must be loud on the eyes. Why? Because they're the main character, of course!

Obviously there are plenty of exceptions, but there's still a general rule.

Training in anime/manga is usually filler to meet deadlines to give the writer(s) and artist(s) more time to focus on the meat of the plot, like an important battle or a major development, or to milk money.

tl;dr watch more anime and you'll realize you're wrong.
>>
>>78958681
The second set of Fullbring training was the same with Ichigo fighting Jackie, Third was when they went into Yukio's world but was more for increasing his power rather than learning it because at that point he knew his abilities.

With getting his Asauchi, Oetsu gave him a one night limit after he was kicked out to learn what a Zanpakuto is and also his soul or something along those lines.

Basically Ichigo has a natural talent for this shit and can do most of it in an incredibly short time if it doesn't require talking.

But this is fucking Bleach and it's retarded anyway I wouldn't be surprised if Kubo retconned all of it in the next issue.
>>
>>78959044
>Why? Because they're the main character, of course!
Well, duh. They have to stand out, they can't exactly have average joe the character or people wouldn't be interested. They have to have that outstanding design and personality to make them more interesting, that's even a rule in most western stories too.
That said more often than not there's always some kind of underlying theme in anime and manga that even being born into power doesn't mean you're the strongest. A lot of series do that unless it's a comedy series like OPM or badly written like Bleach or Naruto where it contradicts the original "train and you'll be the best" point.
>>
>>78938705
without the kyuubi naruto would've died within the first 20 episodes
>>
>>78959975
And without the Uzumaki clan's legendary stamina and chakra reserves he'd never have been able to beat Mizuki or climb to the top of the tree without buckling down for some real work.
>>
>>78959140
>Basically Ichigo has a natural talent for this shit and can do most of it in an incredibly short time if it doesn't require talking.
...So he's a savant? I keed I keed, that one moment when he lets Isshin know not to worry about telling him anything was super mature of him, as was his admission that he'd heard it from someone else
>>
>working your ass off to achive your goal and power to beat the bad guy

>in a country who's entire rhetoric is working until you collapse

Who'da thunk?
>>
>>78919088
Like 90% of everything else.
>>
>>78948917
That bullshit he never used the tails power in that fight and you know it

Stop making up bullshit
>>
>>78961588
Except he did use it.
Neji used eight trigrams 64 palms and sealed Naruto's chakra but then Naruto pulled out the Nine tails card fighting Neji pretty much evenly.

That was one of the funniest fights morally.
>>
>>78961588
He was able to use jutsu because Kurama busted open his chakra points by flooding them with his own chakra. He also used his power in his fight against Haku and to summon that giant frog.
>>
>>78957704
No naruto has great lessons

I dont know what your talking about contradictions

If naruto never worked himself then he'd be fucked
>>
>>78961801
>It's not about being born into things you have to work for it!
>turns out to be the reincarnation of one of the two sons of one of the greatest Ninja in history as well as being part of a clan known for their special chakra and his father was the fourth hokage
That's Naruto in a nutshell.
>>
>>78961588
No, he did use it.
>Neji hits Naruto with 8 Trigrams 64 Palms, keeps him from using any chakra by blocking the portals they exit through
>Naruto tells Kurama to give him some chakra
>he gets so much that it forces the portals open and makes a dbz-style aura
>Naruto can suddenly keep up with Neji and has enough reaction time and chakra to make a clone, have it burrow underground and then pop out to sucker punch Neji for the win
He figured out how to do this with Jiraiya, when he was learning how to summon. He used it again to summon Gamabunta v Gaara, and again to get enough power to beat Gaara into submission.
>>78961777
>He also used his power in his fight against Haku
I'd count it but I would note that it is not because of his own choice. It just sort of happened.
>>78961801
The problem with that statement is that we've never actually seen what a ninja who doesn't work at all looks like. Even Shikamaru works hard, however reluctantly.
>>78961769
Not as funny as the moment where Sasuke displays multiple new abilities surpassing Kakashi's and all Naruto has done is make a bigger Rasengan.
>>
>>78961013
>Being the mixed halfbreed/chosen one gives you the ability to be powerfull

>In a country where your race is the biggest standard with long racial history claiming superiority

Who'da thunk
>>
>>78962029
>>Being the mixed halfbreed/chosen one gives you the ability to be powerfull
Anon, most stories have those people lose except for Bleach or Naruto.
>>
>>78961891
So what if his family is baller

Naruto still had to work to get anywhere

Reminder that Sakura had the best chakra control compared to not only naruto but also sauske. Does she come from a special family?!?! Actully no, just a regular family
>>
>>78962069
Anon stop lying to yourself, thoes people always win
>>
>>78962129
>Reminder that Sakura had the best chakra control compared to not only naruto but also sauske.
Nigger she has some kind of innate super strength.
>>
>>78899121

a whole thread of /co/tards desperately trying to get the bait into their mouths...oh how relevant OPs pic is
>>
>>78962250
Thats not an excuse anon
>>
>>78962360
Meaning she has something that set her apart from everyone else without training.
There was always one at least in the Team 7-esque teams.
>>
>>78962250
>>78962469
No she did not. Her super strength came about in part 2, after learning proper chakra control from Tsunade (who also has super strength).
She displays absolutely zero physical prowess in part 1.
>>
>>78961902
>Not as funny as the moment where Sasuke displays multiple new abilities surpassing Kakashi's and all Naruto has done is make a bigger Rasengan.

>Sasuke mastered chidori and developed several new techniques from it
>Naruto only developed one real new rasengan, the rest were just clone + rasengan or Big Rasengan
>Still can't do it without a clone
>Boruto can do it on his own with two hands
>>
>>78962929
And he can throw it without the aid of a shuriken extension.
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