So what are good examples of fight choreography in cartoons?
What are some bad examples? (like pic related)
What makes a good fight scene? Is the stuff from RWBY a good example?
Anyone got a Webm of Mike's first or 2nd encounter with Red?
It's not that I dislike cartoons made in North Korea inherently, anon, it's because that style is by it's very nature cheap and unimaginative.
But don't worry, anon, you'll outgrow your anime phase when you're older.
While this isn't /co/ related show, this is one of the best animated animal fights of all time, if not the best.
But I liked the Whiplash vs. Centurion Armor fight.
No, they use Poser 98.
But the the guy who started it, monty oum, died, and his understudy type person whose been lead animator for the current volume is leaving for reasons unknown, so it' always possible they could upgrade for the next volume
what the hell is this from
my guess is you like the build up and suspense in a show and you confuse it with the fight scenes. that scene had some good build up,drama, and the song during it while chessy added to it very well making it entertaining.... just not good. as in well choreographed, or full scenes of action. a good fight scene is measured in how far away you are from the fighters, if you see their faces and individual blows you are looking at crap that was done to give the illusion of excitement rather than a good fight. in conclusion a good fight it the entire fight in one motion with as few change of perspectives as possible.
>Was there a dip in the already not good quality of RWBY with him in charge?
At least not that I can tell, but others who know more about animation would probably know better than I would
>getting stoned in your van gives you kung fu powers
Like the example from >>78834408 it's kind of obligatory but ATLA has some great fight choreography. The Jet fight and Crossroads of Destiny (which is basically Empire Strikes Back with kung fu) are the best IMO, but there are great scenes sprinkled throughout.
the fight in spectacular spiderman where he fights the sinister six in central park is my favorite, there was a video of it but its been taken down unfortunately
that was just a really good show in general
The Korean studio behind this film stacked their budget in favor of the fight scene at the end. They did some generic choreography with the animators in studio, mocked up some crude 3D models, and lo and behold, the final product was pretty fantastic.
Honestly I'm not a huge Wakfu fan.
A lot of the first season was slow, and I dropped it like four episodes into the second.
But along with some great story stuff and the waifus, the action was pretty excellent.
>Warning about Obama and Bronies and not about the Stock Market crash, to prevent the economy from tanking as hard as did or to at least ensure those responsible are held accountable.
Spicy buzzwords there, pal. Careful you dont burn yourself with those zingers, sport. Pretty heavy truths your dropping, bucko, watch your toes.
Some anime look cheap relative to other anime. American animation looks cheap relative to anime. Very, very cheap. When people say something like "anime is cheap-looking and badly animated and made entirely in Korea," they are engaging in projection.
One thing that writers do too often is have characters pause to say witty things to each other. A lot of good fights are uninterrupted duels, where the only dialogue is one or two lines quickly said when the fighters AREN'T right in front of each other, or when one of them has already been defeated.
As for the actual choreography, just make sure the movements would really flow into each other and that momentum is always carried.
>Korra shits on almost all anime from the last few years
No. This is projection. Only some of the work is outsourced, mostly in-between animation. On American productions the norm is to outsource ALL animation. You don't even know who animated something (not that anyone seems to care), the storyboards are just fed into a black box in Korea that spits out completed animation.
I've never heard of a production that was outsourced to Korea, and I don't consider such a production to even be anime.
It's what we call a "reaction image," newfriend. It is not supposed to be an example of anime superiority.
>It's not anime if all the animation work is done outside Japan by foreigners.
Holy shit. You're understanding of what anime is is severely lacking. How about you go to /a/ and make a thread about "what anime is". They'll be quick to correct you and give you examples of outsourced animation.
No, you don't understand what anime is. You think it''s just a vague visual style and a collection of tropes that can be made anywhere by anyone. But it's not. It's a form of Japanese animation intimately tied to Japan and the Japanese people. If an anime production is outsourced to another country, it isn't anime.
If you know all about these outsourced productions then feel free to list them. But even if you did, so what? They are not the norm like you're making them out to be. You are just trying to project the failures of the American animation industry onto the anime industry out of nationalistic jealousy.
Uh no. Anime means animation developed in Japan. Just because it was outsourced doesn't make it not a Japanese production. It's still written, drafted, funded, voice acted, and aired in Japan. Having Korean animators do the animation does not change this.
One Punch Man
And most other anime
>Anime means animation developed in Japan.
In that case, if the entire production staff of Adventure Time moved to Japan, it would suddenly be anime? No. Anime is a product of Japanese culture, history, society and language, and the animation and production techniques it employs, and many other things.
Did you actually look at the credits on ANN? They're all full of Japanese animators.
>And most other anime
Holy fucking shit, are you for real? I know it's traumatic for you that the American animation industry has completely shit itself and basically doesn't even exist, but denial and projection is not going to make it any better.
What did I say that is in any way retarded?
No, you don't know what you are talking about.
>Just because it was outsourced doesn't make it not a Japanese production. It's still written, drafted, funded, voice acted, and aired in Japan. Having Korean animators do the animation does not change this.
Animation is a big part of anime. If none of the animation is done in Japan then it isn't anime anymore.
Holy shit. So is any anime done by Studio Pierrot not anime anymore because Henry Thurlow works on it? It's still produced in Japan even if 100% of the animation isn't done in Japan. It's still anime if animation is outsourced. Point blank. It's still a made in Japan and for Japanese people. Also, ANN don't give full credits, just the "head" people. Look at the actual credits in the actual shows.
>I'm not stupid! Everyone else is!
Despite multiple people telling you otherwise, you still seem to not understand that Japan outsources animation too. I don't think you even watch anime and are just b8ing at this point.
How is one foreign animator on the production equivalent to all the animation being outsourced to a foreign country?
>It's still anime if animation is outsourced. Point blank. It's still a made in Japan and for Japanese people.
It's mostly made outside Japan, yet it's still made in Japan? And no, it's not enough that an animation is made in Japan and for the Japanese market. That doesn't make something anime. Anime is much, much more than that, like I already said.
Did I say something isn't anime because Koreans worked on it?
No it wasn't, and who exactly at ILM could have even done that animation? Putting aside that ILM is a special effects company, not an animation company, it's incredibly rare for Westerners to even be able to draw a character that looks like it could have been made by a Japanese artist. And that's just making one drawing; now how about doing that as animation and employing all the animation techiques anime uses? Anime isn't something you can shit out on command.
I never said Japan doesn't outsource any animation.
>Anime is much more
Anime is an animated work created in Japan, no matter if it's outsourced or not.
Not only that, if you go for the Japanese definition of "anime" it means all animation.
So what's your point then. America does pretty much the same amount of work on their end for Korea as Japan does for Korea
Anime is a product of Japanese culture, history, society and language. It's a product of the limited animation and production techniques developed for television. It's a product of the beliefs the Japanese have about animation (as opposed to the very different beliefs Americans have about animation). It's a product of manga. It's also been influenced by things like visual novels and otaku culture. Anime is all of these things, and more. It's not just any and all animation made in Japan.
>Not only that, if you go for the Japanese definition of "anime" it means all animation.
People never, ever get tired of repeating this nonsensical semantic argument, do they? It doesn't matter how the Japanese use the word. Anime is what it is even if it's called "h5u4th43gfreg." It's not defined by semantics. Likewise, American animation (or whatever) doesn't become anime just because someone calls it that.
No, I didn't.
Outsourcing ALL the animation work is not the same thing as outsourcing SOME of the animation work, especially when it's mostly in-betweening.
>doesn't matter how the Japanese use the word
>it doesn't matter how Japan classifies their own animation. I'm going to make up my own definition for it.
I am talking about a production outsourcing all the animation, not the entirety of the American animation industry outsourcing animation. There is still some animation made in America, but it's not a lot.
Gravity Falls was evidently produced by Disney Television Animation, but when you look at the credits on IMDB there are basically no credited animators. There's one person doing something called pixel animation, and one person doing "additional animation." And three animation directors. A Korean company is credited as a production company. The 2013 Mickey Mouse series has one credited animator.
I JUST explained this in the very same post you're responding to. It's a semantic argument. Read what I said again.
I didn't say anything about genre or medium.
>It's made in Japan it's anime, it's not even debatable.
It is very much debatable.
"The Japanese call all animation anime, therefore all animation is anime" is a semantic argument. A very bad semantic argument.
Anime is defined by certain things. It's certain kind of animation existing in a certain kind of context. It's not just any animation made in Japan. Adventure Time isn't going to become an anime if all of the production team is moved to Japan. Even if all of them were replaced with Japanese people who carried on doing the show exactly as before, it still wouldn't be anime.
An anime that has all of its animation outsourced overseas is not anime either. I realize that Americans place no importance on animation and consider it busywork to be handled by Koreans (or someone else in Asia), but that doesn't mean it's treated the same way in Japan.
There is no reason why it would. Your claim is not based on anything. It's arbitrary. And before you say something like "hur but you are being arbitrary too," my definition of anime is based on its history and its constituent elements.
If you have something to say, then say it. Otherwise you can just fuck off. Some guy on YouTube is just some guy on YouTube and I don't have to watch his video just because you told me to.
Even as a SU Fan, ive got to admit that scene is pretty awful. Same goes for Stronger Than You. But this scene is pretty much my favorite fight ever.
The way the music syncs up with all the hits and characters is so satisfying. I wish every fight scene was like this.
>Muh' cookie-cutter slice of life budget-animated horseshit shows that anybody else would be unable to distinguish between if their lives depended on it
>Anime is a product of Japanese culture, history, society and language.
You keep repeating this like it means anything outside whatever cultural studies textbook you copied it from. The thing is, anime, like all genres of stuff, is a living institution. You can't pin it down with a definition because a genre's definition is constantly in flux and includes whatever consumers of said genre choose for it to include by consensus. You think this means I can say SU or The Simpsons is anime. That's not correct, there is no consensus of any size validating those claims. But many people describe Avatar as "American Anime." If that means something to enough people then it becomes true, and when the consensus definition for anime changes enough then Avatar may very be considered anime in the future. Don't like it? Welcome to the bed you made. You want to speak authoritatively about definitions? Sorry, that requires a paper, not a soundbite, dickhead.
I would post that webm of Lance fighting that Galalunian officer guy from Sym-bionic Titan, but I can't find it through google and I never saved it even though it's a fucking outstandingly coordinated fight scene.
/a/'s tastes are either homogenized mass-appeal horseshit or horrendously obscure and unheard of weird shows that are so out of the way you'd need to be autistic to uncover in the first place.
It's a cesspool that begs for genocide.
>You keep repeating this like it means anything outside whatever cultural studies textbook you copied it from.
I didn't copy it from anywhere, and it's self-evident enough that nobody should have to explain it to you.
>The thing is, anime, like all genres of stuff, is a living institution.
I never said or implied it isn't, and I obviously am aware that it's a living institution. One Punch Man is a long way from Astro Boy. But it's part of the same lineage. The animation and production techniques used by Astro Boy, the manga influence, the assumptions people had and developed about animation... those are all part of OPM today. There's a clear link between the two. "Living institution" doesn't mean "some dumbfucks said this is anime, so now it's anime."
>But many people describe Avatar as "American Anime."
Because they don't know what anime is. They think it's a vague visual style and some tropes. It's not.
>If that means something to enough people then it becomes true, and when the consensus definition for anime changes enough then Avatar may very be considered anime in the future.
Up is not down and Germany is not an island just because a lot of people say so. This is a blatant appeal to majority.
>You want to speak authoritatively about definitions? Sorry, that requires a paper, not a soundbite, dickhead.
And here's an appeal to authority.
I'm still waiting for someone to show me an anime that was completely outsourced to Korea. Someone tried before, but he didn't actually look at the credits and just assumed things (based on what, I don't know).
What's the point here anyway? Even if there's some that was animated entirely in Korea, so what? It is not the norm.
You mean anime that airs at ungodly hours and is aimed at a niche audience?
That's exactly what we've been talking about this entire time.
What do you think late night anime is? It airs at ungodly hours and is aimed at a niche audience. The mass appeal anime is mostly stuff like Pokemon, Detective Conan, PrettyCure, Sazae-san and Doraemon. Mainstream Japanese audiences don't watch Yuru Yuri.
I said Korra wasn't animated in America. As in, not at all. Someone replied that anime is outsourced to Korea too, as in outsourced entirely. I said that only some of the work is outsourced, whereas in America it's the norm to outsource all of it. Someone replied that it depends on the studio, meaning that some studios outsource everything. Then there were those people saying that Innocence was outsourced entirely to ILM and that American and Japanese productions outsource equally, i.e. Japan outsources everything just like America does.
It's very clear what we've been talking about, but I guess you're just going to pretend to be stupid.
Best SU fight scene, which isn't saying much.
Wish they had a decent fight scene where the characters are actually trying to kill each other.
>Every second of that
>it's self-evident enough that nobody should have to explain it to you
But it's also wrong (also, since you're interested in fallacies, this one is called an appeal to common sense). Any checklist of acceptable parameters for what qualifies as anime will always be violated. You've already lost this argument vis a vis outsourcing animation. OPM is animated by Koreans, violating what you said here >>78866162 "If an anime production is outsourced to another country, it isn't anime." I could stop right here because there's no point in continuing but this is kind of fun.
>One Punch Man is a long way from Astro Boy. But it's part of the same lineage. The animation and production techniques used by Astro Boy, the manga influence, the assumptions people had and developed about animation... those are all part of OPM today. There's a clear link between the two. "Living institution" doesn't mean "some dumbfucks said this is anime, so now it's anime."
The thing is you could make the exact same argument linking Astro Boy to Legend of Korra in tems of influence, style, etc, but you won't because you're being too narrow, or perhaps willfully xenophobic(xenophilic?).
>Because they don't know what anime is.
>Up is not down and Germany is not an island just because a lot of people say so. This is a blatant appeal to majority
If you want to formulate a definition of anime, do it but sorry it has to have internal consistency. You can't call appeal to majority on a definition dependent on majority opinion, which is how genre theory works whether you like it or not. Argue that anime isn't a genre if you want, but you'll lose. Globalism is global and anime isn't excluded. Japanese particularity fails your definition.
>And here's an appeal to authority.
Come back with a less arbitrary definition is not an appeal to authority any more than your insistence upon your failed definition is an argument from repetition. Back to JV debate with you, urchin.
learning about real swordfighting makes swordfighting in media, be it animation of film or vidya look so awdkward and clumsy.
This could have been a really cool thread where we post badass fight scenes and talk about what makes them good.
But instead we have pedantic autists arguing over semantics.
Fuck this board and fuck each and every one of you.
Season 2 never.
>defending animating on 3's or worse.
>defending a total lack of moving holds
>defending "lip-syncing" w/o an audio track to sync to
yes anime can be prettier in any number of unrelated ways, but actual animation wise it's a joke compared to the standards of animation in the US.
To settle the debate on what anime is since so many people here are ignorant
The Japanese term for animation, period. They call mickey mouse, Ben 10 and Teen Titans anime. It's literally the word animation rendered in Japanese and shortened.
For boards and categorizing things anime is animation produced with the intent to be distributed within Japan and primarily with the Japanese audience in mind.
>If an anime production is outsourced to another country, it isn't anime.
Next time you are on a/ try to pay attention and read to the animation and production threads that are on there. At the end of the day it's a business and people are trying to make money. If an animation studio elsewhere is not charging a lot they are going to outsource the work to then if they can get it done at a cheaper price. This is what ALL businesses do. Even in the One Punch Man threads it was constantly mentioned that there were a bunch of Korean animators working on it.
Even if this it the case that does not mean the work is any less Japanese just because in betweens were done by a studio in not located in Japan. That's like saying when American companies outsource the animation then it's not longer American. The notion is absurd.
Why can't westerners compete with the Japanese in animation?
I second that. I mean, I know this is the nature of /co/, and every board for that matter. But goddamn, guys
Agreed, I love fight scene threads and this one somehow got derailed into arguing over what anime is. Like...What the fuck does it matter what someone considers anime?
Hell if you have cool anime fights please share them, I dont think it has to strictly be cartoons if you can point out examples of what make a good fight scene in any type of animation?
Uh, no. It's MUCH simpler than that. Anime is simply what the japanese call animation, and what non-japanese call animation from japan. That's it. We call it a cartoon, they call it anime.
It depends, Monty had some good choreography but there was still major animation issues, the show's been getting better in that department every season but especially after his death things have gotten somewhat worse.
Fuck off, we tried. You assholes continued to shit all over our efforts anyway.
>also this thread is just reminding me how disappointing Korra was
Oi you better not be shittalking Korra's fight choreography.
ATLA had just as much if not more mediocre fight scenes but people only remember the good ones and extend it to the whole series while doing the opposite with LoK.
What Korra lacks is creativity. All she is basically doing in almost any fight is punching and kicking with different elements. Hell even Asami has better moves than her.
She has no style
and she has no grace.
>not posting Grevious
Come on now
So cool, and yet so dumb
>a cyborg with no force sensitivity is able to take on 5 jedi at once, one of which is a master on the jedi council
But I digress, this is a thread for cool fights and that it one hell of a cool fight.
Korra's choreography and animation is mostly stellar. It's the retconning and wasted story potential that I'm disappointed in. At least Korrasami felt like it was somewhat earned.
They are now but american cartoons were largely Japanese animated with increasing frequency from the 60s up into the 90s, particularly anything that required actual dynamism rather than talking heads or short loops. It was only when all that American cash made the Japanese animation industry reasonably profitable that it became less affordable and everyone moved their shit to Korea instead.
On the subject of choreography though I really wish everyone would just stop abusing retarded backflips and constant leaping in and out of combat. It would really just improve the average quality by leaps and bounds all across the board.
It was watching shit like this as a kid that made me believe in magic.
Too bad animation of this caliber and detail isn't something that companies can strive for nowadays unless they want to go bankrupt.
So /co/, who would you consider the western contemporary equivalent of contemporary japanese key animators?
And of course I mean people who a regularly employed.