It's over. Release the salt.
the animal characters they are very impulsive with relationships but that is not how it works elsewhere in the real world or with topsider humans in this world
does mutation / increased metabolism make them breed like rabbit
Well ok I didn't see this anywhere on the catalog while I posted the update. Oh well
...anyways holly fags BTFO
Wally gonna get that lizard slurp slurp skeet skeet
and OP stop that amerishit thing in the subject you fucking nub
No, that's the beans.
More seriously, low life expectancy (amongst other factors) does that to people. As a sailor I can tell you that Africa, especially before the HIV, was a fuckfest. When you're probably not gonna live past 30, you try to have all the fun that you can get your hands on.
If anything, I'm more nervous of about the future more than ever... Like, Holly will see this and she will leave Kirbee to die the first chance she gets... If she doesn't do anything before that.
>post long dissertation about this strip in the first thread that I see on the Catalog
>thread gets deleted
>have to hand type this all again on iphone
Is this what Aaron meant about Kirbee filling narrative gaps in the strip following the events of Unity? It seems that Kirbee is used to cohesively wedge Holly and Wally apart following that arc, a progression that wouldn't makes as much sense if it were just Chic and Irving with them. Chic isn't outspoken or rebellious enough to go against Holly and would have cowed hard to her drilling him. It's even visible when she confronts him about Clive; even Wally doesn't step in to stop her (that's Kirbee again).
I think Kirbee coming off of Unity is what proto-Holly was for Wally earlier in the comic: well-needed emotional salvation from a seriously traumatizing event. She's optimistic, cheerful, naive, and supportive, all things Holly was at the start of the Endtown arc.
Coming off of Unity, Wally AND Holly both are in desperate need of emotional recharging. Wally finds that in Kirbee instead of Holly, as she's wrestling with her own demons giving little emotional sanctuary for him. Kirbee existing makes the break easier and well-defined (though it makes Wally look shitty). He cheats on Holly emotionally with Kirbee, as Kirbee gives him what he really needs: support.
>I think Kirbee coming off of Unity is what proto-Holly was for Wally earlier in the comic: well-needed emotional salvation from a seriously traumatizing event. She's optimistic, cheerful, naive, and supportive, all things Holly was at the start of the Endtown arc.
Except one thing Kirbee has that Holly doesn't is the ability to actually survive aboveground
Plus he has no time for Holly's suicidal baggage at all
He is way better off with Kirbee
>post long dissertation about this strip in the first thread that I see on the Catalog
>thread gets deleted
Sorry that was all me. I couldn't tell if people were coming to my thread or not so I gave up since this was up before me
>have to hand type this all again on iphone
You know how to copy and post on a iPhone right?
I didn't copy the post and decide to check /an/ for a bit before coming back to the /co/ catalog for replies. I think this new post covers my thoughts a little better though.
I'll agree that overall Kirbee is more useful above ground. If Aaron wanted to drive home how ideal Kirbee is as a character to take Topside he pushed that agenda pretty well.
If Nagasaki buying 4chan makes 4chan not an american board, then it looks like we'd better start using YY/MM/DD, not DD/MM/YY
This is just yuropoors looking for something to bitch about, but not something significant enough that they risk offending someone and getting arrested
>tfw i'm living in august of last year, but no one believes me
Woah there yuropoor, your sarcasm is getting dangerously high on the offensive meter! Unless you want to get a visit from your local PD you'd better start doing something progressive, maybe let an immigrant or two rape your daughter/mom/sister
>falling to death
>no one makes out with you
Topsiders can't have sex at all, because they can't take off their biosuits. Btw, the first thing Sarah and Jim did once they were able to remove their suits, was to try and have sex with their new mutant bodies.
Unless you want tu use dates to find/organize something fast, like, I dunno, an archive for a long running webcomic. Or you are a scientist. Or a programmer. Or a librarian.
There are dozens of reasons for using YYY/MM/DD and none for the rest other than lazyness.
>all this appeal to authority like it's going to change anyones mind
I don't see archival being dozens of reasons, and outside of that there's no fucking reason not to use DD/MM/YY or MM/DD/YY for general purposes, because everyone already fucking knows what year it is
Also, no one gives a shit about programmers. Stop it.
>appeal to authority
That would be saying "the president does that, why can't you?"
What I did was appealing to common sense and giving examples. All you did was stating that you are too lazy to read three numbers instead of two (the horror).
I'm tired by this discussion, I'm out.
Dec. Patreon Update Letter
>trapped in suit for 5 years
>absolutely no sex in that time
>finally get out of suit
>first thing to do is fuck!
That is perfectly normal, regardless of being a mutant or not. Both are young adults who haven't had sex in a long time.
Given that Holly was pretty oblivious to all the flirting up to now, I don't see that it matters. Much like Sparkplug's flashback, I think this whole thing is replaying Holly's past...
A triangle needs 3 sides, so no problem here.
Me neither, but since everyone have a good reason to do what they do (Holly is "not well", traumatized and acting out of her mind, blind are those who blame her for her episodes; Kirbee is in awe and lovestruck but also a bit of ashamed of her feelings to Wally because of Holly; Wally wants to be with Holly but she is making it hard and Kirbee is there for him when he needs her, which does not help) I give it a pass and await further development.
Yeah, Im gonna wait and see how it turns out before I pass final judgement.
I guess on one hand it does add some negative depth to Wally who up until this point has been basically perfect.
Though I suppose some people are gonna say he did nothing wrong.
Well thats just backstory and even then he was unsure about what he was doing.
But in present day, other than his initial issues going to Endtown, hes basically been a perfect saint. An at times hotheaded one but hes always doing what he thinks is the right thing.
That was Holly's fault
and now they all look like this.
Well, if we look at what is going on in the story line we can all see the wreck incoming. Holly is seemingly assured that Kirby and Wally are degenerate conspirators who stole away her precious Clive. Currently they are working to send her back to Endtown since she has gone nuts, which she wasn't so keen on.
Now with all this lizard kissing going on, will Holly see it as a final betrayal and still hold some possessiveness over Wally? Will she view it as a confirmation of her paranoid mindset at current? I think that if she does become aware of this cat lizard action she will make far more effort to leave than just walking off in a huff. They are a bunch of scum who want to send her somewhere she adamantly doesn't want to go after all.
>I think that if she does become aware of this cat lizard action she will make far more effort to leave than just walking off in a huff.
shes gonna go berserk and bite her fingers off...
It's rather obvious just who has and hasn't actually been in a relationship with a woman.
Sometimes, no matter how passionate it begins, couples just don't work out. If this weren't true, there'd be no divorce. Holly is MESSED UP (not meant as a critisism), and has a lot of healing to do, much as Doc said.
What would you say if way back when, Aaron nudged a possible Wally x Ally ship? Ally likewise was carrying a lot of pain and Wally could have been the guy given time and opportunity to help her straighten out. Now then, is Holly some HEARTLESS MONSTER for cutting that short? No, of course not, it's just how things played out.
Aaron has stated REPEATEDLY that the Hot Mess we call Holly was ALWAYS where things were going. In the real world, crazy folk don't just "get better", they fight a constant battle with their problems.
How about this tho; what if Holly meets another guy (a mouse por ejemplo) who IS the right guy to get her head together. Would it be out of line for her to do what's really best for her in the long run?
Aaron has given all of this a great deal of thought (just ask him), so let's just see where this all goes.
To be fair Endtown is not a safe place.
Yeah, but after teacher, Allie, and Holly he would look like a bad person.
I mean shit, he needs to stick with a girl or he always going to be holding an ex bleeding out from machine gun fire. He's got to stop
Holly seemed pretty stable until the milk trial. Maybe she can bury her past trauma, and this current situation is just how she handles a new one. Maybe being on the surface so long has an effect on her, since she's not used to it? She acknowledged she's not herself.
She was always cute crazy but the Milk Trial broke her.
She probably at least owed him the respect to not:
>immediately go sleep with someone else
>break the news to him in the most casual and insensitive way possible
>not give a shit when it basically destroys him
Sarah's problem isn't that she didn't love Jim, it's that she's a terrible friend, partner, and ally.
We had TONS
wonder what happened to them
t.. this should not expand dong...
>mhh Wally, I want you inside me
>kirbee I want to have your babies
>im gonna suck your harpoon dick dry
>fine but when you are done in going to drestroy that ass
>guys...im still here
Most Africans don't even know about hIV. No one tells them, they don't educate anything about it. And Christian missionaries try to invalidate all sex education by forcing their abstinence bullshit.
>just marathoned this series earlier this week
>mfw more cheating
Mutant scum cant hold down a steady relationship let alone a stable government
That is just stupid. Sarah and Jim were a couple, and generally sleeping with someone while with some one, counts as cheating. If Sarah didn't want to be with Jim anymore, the right thing would have been to tell him. He did deserve at least that much from her.
The fact is that everyone in the comic has gone through some serious shit. Holly isn't special because she lost her baby 5 or so years ago! If anything it just proves she's not as mentally tough as Linda or Maude.
Kissing is hardly cheating. If this goes farther, then yes. First time they kissed Kirbee kissed Wally, and it took him by surprise. Not sure if she started it again, or was Wally the one that kissed her.
>trying to reason with shitposters
>Gustine not sure if AL still loves her
>goes on a quest to try and become human again
>discovers he does indeed love her
>Nothing else really matter
Endtown has always been kind of a soap opera.
release the salt indeed
What is with that?
Sarah first, then we learn that the entire lizard community is rife with a complete lack of commitment. The only lizard couple we meet (king and queen) are horribly dysfunctional
lizards seem to be easy come easy go
>tfw polyamory is never a thing in fiction because of fundamentalist Christianity's hold on Western art
damn it wally just fuck and make out with both of them, you can do it bro!!!
Look at the context.
Wally is a strong character and has multiple relations to expand his dominion. Sarah cheated on Jim to insult his domination and to survive. It was a completely animalistic and weak thing to do. Despite Jim being unmasculine and falling into femininity he did not deserve what happened to him.
>believing in polyamory
You have much to learn...
Wally wasn't a manipulative ass hole to begin with, and he didn't just do a 180° with Holly like Sarah did with Jim.
Also, there are a bunch of people here that view this as nothing but trouble. Why would you assume unanimous approval?
WAIT A FUCKING MINUTE... Here's the fucking deal.
"It's an illusion"...
Maybe it's what Kirbee really wants? And they're trapped in a world where their fantasies come true? Wally might not be real.
>First kiss was Kirbee giving quick peck
>Second kiss is full on while they fly through the air holding each other
As amazingly cheesy and over the top as it is, Aaron does some good romance. And better yet, I have no idea what direction he's going to take this in.
>it actually happened
>Sarah has sex with another person
>Wally is kissed by another person
Totally not the same thing, you retard.
I love webcomics that use it for the filename.
Maybe Wally wrestles with his growing feelings for Kirbee, but in the end he chooses to stay with Holly. Wally lets Kirbee down gently. Then the group makes it way back to Endtown, and Kirbee probably meets another guy.
Always a chance Aaron kills off Holly since he has stated before that the comic really doesn't have a main protagonist.......................... something tells me Wally will probably be the one to be killed off
Would be a hell of a plot twist.
Just remember, nothing good ever happens in Endtown!
>there is a koala bear milf still alive
I doubt it'll happen, but I can see it possibly happening.
What do you think the others are fantasizing about?
Wally sees Holly and hears exactly what he wants, where she apologizes for everything and breaking down into tears. Kirbee and Chic aren't there because he thinks they're still outside the portal, plus they aren't the focus of what he really wants.
Holly's fantasizing her past life, before everything went to fuck. This is where we learn more of her past, where she's with her husband and born baby. Then she realizes she already lost it and snaps out of the fantasy, left on the other side crying her eyes out.
Chic would probably want food, and Wally and Holly are on the other side and say that it was a one way portal or something. Can't really think of anything.
Irving would fantasize about being in a party with hookers and blow.
This is just a huge disaster flag. Brace yourselves, someone is going to get it.
>this is a fantasy or illusion of what the characters want
>whoever's fantasy this is, Kirbee's or Wally's, they secretly wanted to commit suicide by jumping off a skyscraper before WWIII happened
>the kiss and comfort diverted the suicidal deathwish of the character's psyche which is what 'saved' them
>new page showing a teary-eyed Kirbee
>camera tilts as it pulls back to show her lying down as the sands slowly cover her up
I. . . . I can buy that. . . .
for three fifty.
Linda was almost killed by Flask
Almost turned into a monster by Flask
Almost killed by her own friends once she mutated
Lost her child since she can never see him again
Forced to live with mutants that she literally was just trying to kill
Kill didn't fit in because of it
Treated like shit by her waitress co workers
Imprisoned during the milk trail
Only friend in Endtown now hates her because she found out she was a topsider
Dude everyone has it bad in the comic. .....everyone. Holly isn't special.
It's Holly's past relived ( a la Sparkplug).
Look, even if Holly’s past is unforgivable, you need to remind them that not only has Holly NOT sought help, OR told Wally the truth of her past (as he did with her), but has steadfastly behaved wrecklessly and thoughtlessly just to maintain the fantasy she’s living in of being large and in charge. She's NOT a bad person, but she needs to accept that she needs help! Like an alcoholic, we're witnessing Holly hit bottom.
He is incredibly strong and knows how to do it correctly from experience.
Even he must know that there are limits.
nice quads bruh
anyways, i always thought that Roxie has been unappreciated.
i think she's really cute, and naturally i would love to see her in a gimp suit riding a dildo.
>girlfriend turns in rhino
>have to learn how to make love to her without ending up in the hospital
Considering how stronk Gustine is and her size (7'2 500lbs)I would assume it took a while for her to not get too carried away during sex. Or AL is just a tough SOB.
Kirbee was supposed to be a character that wasn't even planned to exist beyond a strip or two during Wally's jailtime. Now she's literally destroying his relationship with Holly and making the worldbuilding and actual plot feel like it's not even a priority anymore.
I really wonder what was the original plan for the post Unity plot with only Wally, Holly and Chick...
I can only imagine one way to fix this. Kirbee IS going to die somehow, after all the shit she went through, just so Wally and Holly can get back together with almost no problems.
Filthy snekfuckers like you will be first against the wall when Xcom frees humanity from the ADVENT puppet-regime
>I really wonder what was the original plan for the post Unity plot with only Wally, Holly and Chick...
What you have now minus Kirbee. Holly would still descend into madness (always the plan), tho it would have been just the two of them bickering as Chik cowered. Kirbee acted as a buffer so Wally wouldn't come off as a hardcase.
>just so Wally and Holly can get back together with almost no problems.
hahaha delusional hollyfag thinks killing kirbee will fix holly's problems...
Uh yeah Kirby, who are you talking about?
>mfw i started dumping SFW furry comics on LOL threads and now everyone is following my steps
That must be the feeling Hitler had.
its funny you mention that, we dont know if kirbee has laid eggs before... maybe not since everyone on the colony thought she was too dumb for having children with.
aaron said we will get to see her past, so im curious.
Started reading this comic recently, and i liked a lot Wally's and Holly's relationship.
It seems very genuine and caring, helping each other to overcome their fears.
Now, i don't care for spoilers, so is there a reason behind this sudden change of love interest?
i would be better if you keep reading it and see for yourself, some people will claim there isn't, some do.
wally x holly is not to be ruled out for the time being, we still havent reached a point where we can say for certain who is wally gonna stick up with.
Nope. Her feet. I'll deliver this tomorrow. Probably with some mask and mittened hands.
Someone asked for WallyxFlask pegging in the caturday thread and I think of doing that too as warmup before I tackle my Patreon stuff.
It does suck that Holly is taking her loss so hard.
It is not a sudden change of love interest.
Wally is still in love with Holly, but right now she oscillates between being emotionally distant or outright hostile.
So here is this other girl who, during exactly this same time period, Wally is clicking with. She IS smart in an unconventional way, friendly, endearing, supportive and actually loves the "outdoors" the way Wally does.
In turn she made it clear in big bright letters that she likes him. If the kiss wasn't enough wanting to hold him high for "5 more minutes" would have done it.
So it is a difficult situation for all involved.
Wally loves Holly but Holly is currently not demonstrating she reciprocates those feelings.
Holly loves Wally but she is wrecked by past traumas that make her extremely hostile. And I would be surprised if she hasn't noticed a thing developing between Wally and the new girl, regardless of her current anguish.
Kirbee has feelings for Wally but she is aware of his own feelings for Holly, even if she only knows Holly as an angry crazy bitch who loves Wally and a casserole.
Wally and Kirbee were trying to not mention the elephant in the room but this dramatic kiss puts all the cards on the table. But nothing can happen because Wally and Kirbee won't let this escalate further while Holly is acting as a self-destructive mess. So any feelings they have will have to be bottled up or denied.
This will either end with one of them dead, with them parting ways, or in polyamory after Holly stabilizes.
But this is Endtown, so the beast of three backs is probably not how this will be resolved.
endtown is not a tumblr hugbox fairy tale story where everyone is nice and every one i happy forever after... not a single character is protected with plot armor. sometimes relationships dont work out, shit happens... Aaron mentioned endtown is not just about holly and wally, that everything is subject to change.
will wally leave holly for kirbee?, i dont think so... but no one can be sure of that, he will try to fix things for sure, but i think its all up to holly if she's willing to get better or not.
Oh come on.
You are sounding like there's some kind of precedent for characters being killed while they are wallowing in anguish.
But no, Holly has to live of Wally will never go back to Endtown.
It was originally planned for Wally, Holly and Chic to reach the sea. If Aaron still wants to do that, going back to Endtown seems counter-productive.
It's not like there is a magic solution to Holly's problems waiting back there. Endtown's psychologists don't seem to be effective at all and it was the Doc, of all people, who said that he couldn't help her, so I don't know what Wally is expecting to get from there.
she genuenly makes him happy, i cant remember the last time wally was genuenly this happy.
I'm sure he finds the reaction of a lot of people here funny, but my point is that, considering Kirbee wasn't even meant to get this far, what was the original plan? The plot at this point became secondary to the love triangle stuff.
*sigh* The plot remains unchanged, but since Aaron added a wildcard into the plot, he's showing just how Wally would react to the change. You're acting like there's NEVER been a case of a guy loving 2 women before! Wally is at his wits end with Holly's nuttiness but that doesn't mean he's given up on her.
Quick reminder, they're fighting for their lives out there, and Holly's irresponsible behavior has nearly screwed them SEVERAL times. Whether he realized it or not, Wally was relying more and more on Kirbee because she's done a good job of dealing with situations. Again, he's gained a deep respect and affection for her, but that doesn't automatically mean Holly goes under the bus.
I think I finally understand what happened here now that I've seen a picture of a raccoon dong
jim is too damn cute, i would have tried to make it work somehow.
The power of a damn good Dicking
Even if it's her leg in the last panel, you think she made it? Especially considering the next page is more lizards being vaporized. I wouldn't totally discount it, but I don't think it's obvious she escaped.
I guess there's no way of distinctly telling who's being killed, a lot of lizards are just being disintegrated. Maybe she'll come back after all. Makes me wonder what Flask is doing.
Wally lived alone all this time and people he'd met before Endtown would either move on or die
Holly was the first person to truly give him someone to open up to, so of course he fell for her
As time moved on, however, the fact that Holly gave him emotional release was overpowered by her own baggage and suicidal bullshit (extremely heavy dead weight in a world like Wally's) so naturally when he actually had a choice and Holly had some competition who was legitimately better for Wally both emotionally and physically (also who could actually survive on her own outside Endtown, Wally is a drifter, this is a necessity) he moved on
Having a bubbly personality doesn't automatically make you a retard, ColdSteel
The fact that she doesn't let anything get to her just makes her even better a companion for Wally
She's also saved his ass already on more than one occasion
I didn't say "ignorant" or "naïve," I said retarded as >>78869184 affirms.
I get that Holly's become such a liability that everything else looks good by comparison but let's not make Kirbee some ideal partner because she's the nearest cloaca at the moment.
She joins Jackrabbit in the Purge of all Topsiders and disgusting mutties.
>revolting against our glourious interstellar allies
You rebel scum.
Where are the drawfags to do this?
>people are physically attracted to endtown reptilians
>people are physically attracted to golf clubs
if wally was retarded enough to do that, then he deserves that sort of hell (thankfully he's not)
literally the only thing holly has going for her is she was there first. in fact, from the very beginning, before kirbee even existed, she and wally were a thing because she just happened to be there first
she's dead weight in every way shape and form and i bet now she's realizing it
Ok waifufaggin aside, what are realistically the odds that wally finishes he relationship with holly in favor of kirbee?
I personally believe there is a 90% chance he will stay with holly, specially considering this is holly's big break to "redeem" herself.
i would like wally to stick with kirbee but im trying to be realistic here.
>she's dead weight in every way shape and form
>wally carries her in his backpack all the time
>her fucking traumas are holding everyone on the group back
>unstable enough to actually become a deadly liability
Baggage : The character
Sarah maybe could have gotten away. Do you think this means she's likely to return to the story though?
I was thinking the same thing as she was running
>try's to over throw endtown
>becomes mayor because she has the inside outs of topsider tech and leaderships skills
also fucked everyone at endtown to get their vote, including the women
So something like this?
>Read all of end town last week
>mfw Im just in time for NTR trash
No idea what the fuck this is, but the artstyle reminds me of pic related a bit
What exactly is about? It seems kind of interesting, but also lore-heavy.
Post-apoc, some kinda virus present pretty much everywhere can turn humans into horrific things, or furrys. All kinds of sci-fantasy crazy shit, no central character per-say, so much as story arcs following different characters. Expect lots of death.
Until she unhinges her jaw and tries to eat Wally whole.
Everyone in this comic is a good person until they fucking lose it. Unfortunately, most characters have already lost long before the show up in the story.
Know who I feel bad for? Piotr, shining knight of the egg eaters. He want so badly to believe in Unity and its ethics and probably felt that all the horror they do and did was eventually going to amount to something big, something important.
Then he tapped dat.
nigga you serious? he basically betrayed his colony for lizard pussy, he knew what was saeah planning all along, he knew kirbee, wally and holly had nothing to do with the fire, yet he stood there silent.
fuck him, im glad he is dead.
Al was a superhero at one point. I think it's still official cannon that he still has the power.
So sleeping with a rhino doesn't seem that far off.
Nothing like fucking 3 or 4 people at once you mean? Are you so insecure you need to latch on to one person to validate you sexually? Or so down on yourself you cant imagine more than one person being attracted to you?
>Nothing like fucking 3 or 4 people at once you mean?
ill take sex with a person i am genuenly in love with than meaningless sex with 10 random people, have fun trying to get some emotional support from your partners while they are being riddled with kilometers of dick.
might as well hire a fucking escort if you are that horny.
>Are you so insecure you need to latch on to one person to validate you sexually?
at the contrary, i dont need to prove how much of a man i am by fucking more than one woman. unlike you obviously.
>Or so down on yourself you cant imagine more than one person being attracted to you?
not at all, i have had my share of pussy, and there is nothing better than fucking the person you have bonded the most with.
It's that guy from Ed Edd and Eddy. The kid would talk to his imaginary friend who was a wooden plank.
He drew this around the time that Holly was wigging out over Clive, who was an inanimate object.
KingCheetah likes cartoons if you haven't noticed.
>Look, Wally, don't come down here while I'm eating my full English breakfast with extra breakfast and expect me to make things easier for you, okay?
>tfw Kirbee orders smiley face pancakes for Chic with grits.
As always, Kirbee has her priorities straight.
I think Aaron has caught the lightning in a bottle with her. She's ditzy, gullible and uneducated, all those being traits that should be extremely annoying, but also so kind, adventurous, resiliant to hardship and surprisingly clever at times that it's nearly impossible not to consider her faults adorable.
So I just finished reading Endtown from start to the current page, and I have just one thing to say:
Flask is a fucking cunt during her initial appearance. That mole guy working for her as well, and it was quite pleasing to see him get vaporized several pages later.
They were all too eager to declare Al and Gustine as traitors and were willing to ignore usual procedures and refused to have them undergo trial just to have them executed as soon as possible, and Flask willingly left Mallard out of the loop because she knew he'd throw a wrench in her plans if he found out.
And Jacob is a fucking pussy, all bark and no bite, he has to use others to accomplish his goals. I imagine he's gonna be all high and mighty dictator fuckface when Wally, Holly and Kirbee inevitably return to Endtown, but as soon as he gets cornered for something or one of his secrets comes out he will revert back to being a chickenshit.
There seems to be a trend of mutants behaving the way humans think the animals they are patterned after behave
for instance, I have seen a truly angry koala and I've never even been to Australia.
>a truly angry koala
the secret is that they are always angry, eucalyptus just takes so much energy to digest they are perpetually stoned
Koalas can be pretty fucking crazy despite their cuddly appearance, I'll tell you that. They're not exceptionally dangerous but when sufficiently pissed off, they can fiercely bite or claw at you.
this. Everything that has come out of Marx's moth thus far could be a lie for all we know.
He might even be admitting it in this panel.