6teen was a goldmine for thiese
yes from the episode "The Wedding Destroyers". here is the same character from another episode
Of course not, she's not nearly as comfortable with her body, or as out-going.
>Didn't watch Producing Parker
You missed out. Shit was pretty good.
I remember this show being surprisingly comfy.
It's interesting how nudity in kids cartoons is dying out and swimsuits in kids shows are some super conservative bullshit that only born again christians would wear. Or how about kissing? If it ever happens at all anymore, it's some sort of chaste little peck like your grandma would give you.
I've had a dream that there will be less censorship in media later in life, not more. But instead of looking in the bright future and being jealous of today's kids, I'm starting to think that I'm one hell of a lucky guy to have witnessed the internet while it wasn't completely fucked up by censorship and corporate copyright regulation.
>super conservative bullshit that only born again christians would
the worst part of this is that in this day and age, it probably isn't the conservative christians who's doing the censoring anymore. It just got a lot more complicated this time around.
Dude same. I still remember the Simpsons being considered edgy and Bart was conservatial.
I got the internet late in my teens and witnessed the greatness of early YouTube. I thought comedy was going to get interesting because everything will be done.
But now I feel like the reigns are being pulled tighter now
damn straight. conservative traditional christians were letting their kids run around naked just a few decades back, and didnt think anything of it until controlling scaremongering liberals taught them everyone was after their kids and you must turn control over to the government if you want them saved.
You pretty much never see girls in just a towel or the girls locker room.
I liked Rugrats before it got toned down.
The pendulum will swing back again, this is nothing new. Just give it time.
Pic related is from the early 30's, showing a naked woman tied to a post in a mainstream film. You know, before the late 30's hay's code banned anything more revealing then an ankle dress and anything lewder then a married man and woman within closeish proximity to one another. And before the 60's went back to everybody fucking again, tits and dicks and asses being nothing particularly special.
Are you being ironic? Do you wanna try living in a society run by blacks, arabs or asians? Go ahead, move into one of those shitholes and see how you like it. The only places that come close are Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan and South Korea.
It's women who are doing this shit. They are biologically programmed to crave domination and safety and that's what they're pushing towards.
If sex sells then why aren't more cartoons lewder than usual?
It comes from all that repression. Southern christians, the ones giving all those teen pregnancies, are special exemptions who have full rights to unleash their pent up urges in the filthest, most perverted manner possible because they're different. But other people are base disgusting pigs for daring to show too much ankle and letting their vile sinful nature run recklessly wild, and they must be stopped and censored lest their satanic worship corrupt our good children.
Oh! Okay. Okay. Neat! Neat! Neat. Okay. Okay. Neat! Okay. Neat! Okay.
Any religionfags really. All religions have one thing in common: submission to a higher authority. Most religions (Christianity, Islam and Judaism included) also have tenants that are made for growing it's numbers trough breeding (as they were originally very aggressive and needed cannon fodder for wars). That's why any sexuality that doesn't lead to procreation is considered evil.
That's why being a christfag and claiming your for freedom and small government is laughable.
Causation and correlation. Teens are barrels of hormones. If you keep a lid on it by demonizing masturbation while simultaneously not letting them date or teaching them about safe sex, sooner or later they blow the lid and have lots of unprotected intercourse which leads to mentioned babies as abortion is murder to them.
As for married couples, as I already mentioned, only sexuality that doesn't lead to procreation or, with more secular christians, sexuality outside of wedlock is seen as immoral.
You've never been to /pol/ if you think this is anything like it. /pol/ hasn't got anything even resembling discussion, it's just a bunch of trolls trolling trolls and a few genuinely awful people venting their genuinely awful opinions.
Very few, the only one I can think off the top of my head that does this with any regularity is Gumball. Steven Universe has had a naked Steven once in a sentient clothes episode.
Any idea what episode this came off of?
I'm so glad I got access to this archive before the owner up and vanished.
Registrations are closed too.
Is that a Julio Rabbit's archive? I used to be on the look out for his stuff, but then his freewebs and multiple image accounts all got taken down and I gave up looking for more. You should make a .zip with all that stuff in it
Direct me to the nearest cryogenics tube. I'll live with the giant cockroaches and thought eating brains.
It was both. Third wave feminists, who saw sex and nudity as exploitative, worked in tandem with conservative Christians who saw sex and nudity as satanic. It was the tag team match made in hell.
At least post something relatively new.
BTW Beefalo has added mods to clear out the backlog of posts to the gallery. He's still active on Inkbunny and I think WWOEC forums so if you nag him he might reopen registration.
Dont do it. Me and two girls went to a nude beach in Barcelona (unknowingly) The first 3 hours we were there was "senior citizen" hour. Horrible. It wasn't until 2pm or so when the young people came out.
>france has the lowest teen pregnancy rates in europe and gives out condoms in school at the equivalent of 6th grade
>southern states with "abstinence only" sex education all have the highest rates of teen pregnancy
hmm wonder if there's a connection here?
>you know its funny
>YOUR WIENER AHAHAHAH
She wasn't a warrior, Sissi snuck into their base and Arin tried to get her to keep it a secret... It didn't work well.
Most of the comic she is totally naked. Justified as she is a feral child.
I've been masturbating to Sailor Moon since I was ten.
>I've not been innocent since I was 9.
>Purposely causing towel fights at the locker room with the other boys.
>Waiting until summer when some of the older girls try to wear too small skirts
>Running by and upskirting them for the hell of it.
>Getting women who's tanning to stand up when clearly they unhooked the bra already
You are aware that different beaches are popular with different people, right? Some are for seniors, some are for sporty young people, some are even for swingers. It's like you went into a gay bar and then complained that there were no girls there — do your research.
Amyfags must be the most beta individuals out there. She's the worst looking and about as exciting as a bag of hammers with the personality of a brick. But she's polite, quiet and submissive and that's enough for you.
/aco/ is fucking bullshit. No one complained about smut on /co/. Some moralfags and underageb&s complained about loli and furry. So what does chinese moot do? He makes a fucking board to post the stuff no one complained about where you STILL can't post the stuff people DID complain about and stuffed western /d/ in there just for good measure. Because people just love diapers, scat and feet on /co/.
>and swimsuits in kids shows are some super conservative bullshit that only born again christians would wear
You're a little misinformed. Actually they love giving characters swimwear like this for animation purposes. A one piece suit is way easier to animate than a bikini.
>That's why being a christfag and claiming your for freedom and small government is laughable
>I am completely ignorant of theology - the post
Free will is a central part of Christian doctrine unless you're talking Calvinists or some other crank denomination. Basically, that man has the freedom to accept or reject salvation.
There's a reason why liberalism and democracy developed in the Christian but not the Muslim world and it has everything to do with the fact that the latter literally means "Submission".
And I could argue that classic season Simpsons episodes from more than 20 years ago did things like this as well. Dowdy one-piece swimsuits have nothing to do with political correctness but everything to do with making the character as easy to animate as possible.
>It's interesting how nudity in kids cartoons is dying out
I'm not sure it was ever that common in American animation except in the 90s when le edgy grossout humor was in fashion. If you're talking anime, yes they did have a lot more comedic nudity in earlier decades.
If you find simple facts edgy, your whole life must be like living on the edge.
First of all, the bible is full of stories where god either straight-up mindcontrolled people or made them suffer horribly if they defied him until they bent to his will, he is most definitely not the god of free will and free society evolved despite of religion, not because of it. Second, both of those things developed in pagan Rome and were long dead at the point where they adopted christianity.
And do listen to sermon some time, your free will choices boil down to letting Jesus take the wheel or cooking in hell. You definitely need spiritual guidance as it seems you developed some sort of heresy while cherry picking christianity on your own. Good thing it's not 400 years ago or you would have been burned at the stake for those ideas by your religion of free thought much like the religion of reason is still murdering people who dare to find it unreasonable in the middle east.
The Motion Picture Production Code was created in the early 1930s as a backlash against the raunchiness of Hollywood during the Roaring Twenties when movies were often bordering on pornography. It stipulated the following:
*Nudity or sexual scenes may not be shown
*Police, teachers, and other authority figures must be shown respectfully and in a positive light
*Religion and members of the clergy must be treated respectfully
*Passionate kissing may not be shown, only a quick peck on the lips
*Any mention of homosexuals or homosexuality is forbidden
*Couples may not kiss in bed unless one person's foot is on the floor
*Criminals and evildoers must always be depicted negatively and lose in the end
*Criminal acts may not be directly shown, only implied
*Graphic violence may not be shown
*All races and cultures must be depicted fairly and respectfully (as you can imagine, this rule was interpreted in a very elastic manner)
In 1966, it was repealed and replaced by the MPAA rating system.
>And do listen to sermon some time, your free will choices boil down to letting Jesus take the wheel or cooking in hell
I am clueless about theology - the post.
Hell is the default condition. You're already in it and you have to get out, but God can't force you to accept salvation.
You'll notice how most background characters wear bikinis while main characters wear one pieces. But not Marge — she's a wholesome churchgoing woman.
Cupids were naked, little kids' butts could be seen periodically like during spankings, and lingerie or cabaret costume scenes happened often in cartoons where characters fought over a bombshell dame.
Like I said, heresy aka apologetics. Read the bible instead of bending the shit out of ancient Jewish fairytales to somehow make the morality and logic of antique desert goat herders fit into current society.
It used to be common to show baby/toddler nudity in the media back then. Also boys skinny dipping or generally being naughty eg. Norman Rockwell paintings. Though showing girls older than preschool age in a state of undress was really never a thing in America ttbn.
There are nigga jews too
>A 2012 study showed that although the Beta Israel more closely resemble the indigenous populations of Ethiopia, they have some distant Jewish ancestry, going back 2,000 years. This has resulted in speculation that the community was founded by a few Jewish itinerant traders who moved to Ethiopia, converted locals to Judaism, and married into the local population.
teen pregnancy is good, you dumbass. we just need to get them back to the mature responsible state they were in the old days. instead of this hedonistic state of having constant consequence-free sex, resulting in ludicrously irresponsible immature adults and a declining birthrate leading to the inability to support anyone in their old age
that's not true. fucking read it sometime.
remember god 'hardening the pharaoh's heart'?
because if he didn't, sending plagues wouldve basically been supernatural bullying, and the victory would have been meaningless. instead he forced him to stick to his guns until he legitimately felt the pain he had caused them and understood what he'd been doing
Judging by what I've heard from baby boomers, female nudity past about kindergarden age was really not accepted at all in the America of the 1950s while male nudity (like skinny dipping in a lake) was just broship and male bonding. High schools used to have mandatory nude male swimming in those days, but not for the girls although supposedly some schools did it.
sex is important. it has consequences. it MUST have consequences. teenagers, as people have pointed out, have raging hormones. it is not okay to just say 'let's stunt their minds so they're children in hormone-riddled bodies, then just put them in a safe padded room'
they must have mature responsible minds to go with those bodies. if they don't, you're a sicko pedophile, wanting them to be children inside and then fuck each other randomly.
One thing I recall reading is how the Detroit public schools in the 1940s experimented with giving girls the option to swim nude in phys-ed class, however it was quickly aborted by outraged mothers who thought that it would encourage their daughters to become degenerates, never mind that they were strictly in the company of other females and no boys could see them.
I never said anything about not teaching people about sex, that's pretty important. I'm just confused because you seem to think that there shouldn't be any form of contraceptive?
I think it's less about the quietness and more about the general air of competence, intelligence, and grace she has without really being loud and overbearing about it. That and she goes out of her way to downplay the things she's passionate about, which is charming
>you will never truly be nakie again
>without being loud and overbearing about it
>she goes out of her way to downplay the things she's passionate about
Exactly, you just want a girl who doesn't assert herself and subordinates her desires to yours, that's what makes you beta.
that's one theory yeah. mainstream is that it was written by solomon about himself and one of his many hot wives. it's up to you, but either way it's a fantastic love story
I didnt say that, I'm just saying contraceptives are no excuse to stop forming monogamous pair bonds with one person for life.
and really you should be having your kids as early as possible. it will NOT get any easier as you get older. you'll just get more rundown and frazzled. blah blah economics blah, fix that. young people should be getting the training and the intense high-paying jobs, they can handle the rigors better.
Yes, because no one would ever have a motive to dislike a cult that fleeces people of money without being taxed and teaches them fucked-up caveman morals. Yep, must be personal reasons.
if we had family units who werent disgusted and terrified of each others' bodies and sexuality we could do as nature intended and BE our parents' retirement plan. instead we all try to escape each other asap
except, yknow, the bible. this being the first part written at the time it was happening (and indeed at the time alphabetic writing first came out). if it was already a lie those people probably would have been aware of it, and wondered why the lie story made them look so bad instead of writing them as mary sues
and actually the egyptians have their own versions of things from ONE surviving stela (Their records suck by comparison) and it's adorably wacky.
>monogamous pair bonds with one person for life
Literally no primates do that. The closest thing is a gorilla, but even then the silverback has a harem and the male that dethrones him inherits it. All of the other species fuck around.
so what you're saying is that characters like samurai jack who are skilled yet humble make someone beta
lol, I bet you're the type of guy that thinks picking a fight with a random guy in a bar will impress your date
you could say it's a reflection of the growing conservative standards in our cultures.
Caring for the old and wounded isn't a thing in nature. Social security is a scam. And in order for you to be sure of securing yourself a good retirement trough the help of your offspring would require you to have several kids. That's not really sustainable with the limited space we have on this planet.
The most fair and logical thing to do is to save for it yourself.
They may not be human but there extremely simular Hight and form
>Caring for the old and wounded isn't a thing in nature
Then again, the old and wounded don't exactly exist in nature considering that animals tend to die after a short illness or get eaten. Humans are really only evolved to live 70 years, long enough to raise two generations of offspring (children and grandchildren).
that's because no animals ever fucking live long enough.
oh yeah because there's a whole lot of secular history. TONS of it, right?
fraid it is. you'd think you would have figured that out what with how obvious it is, all the 'this and never that' nonrandom preferences it has, all the patterns it follows.
talmud isnt scripture, my man. sooner you get used to that idea the happier you'll be. god gave us certain rules. some important, some metaphorical illustrations of concepts. some just for his people, in certain places (living in a fucking desert where fluids are precious for example), some for everyone.. but rules a rabbi came up with (all the ones you listed) don't count amongst those.
You'd be surprised. Aside from obvious myths and epochs like Gilgamesh or Jesus' wacky adventures, most historical sources don't include supernatural bullshit in them and can actually be cross referenced or somehow confirmed.
exactly. the old testament.
the talmud is not the old testament, it's the rabbinical record of their attempts at interpreting (and often just adding to) the law.
so when those pharisees were getting on J-man and his pals for not holy-watering their hands before eating, he handed their bullshit dogma right back to them. because that isn't in the torah or tanakh (collectively 'the old testament') anywhere
ditto for any protestant catechisms or weird catholic stuff
>it's okay to spread my religion's dogma around because I get to arbitrarily decide MY magical shit isn't magical. and history agrees with me, y-you just haven't read it! It was in the library of alexandria you guys!! but when I attack history I don't mean these parts
The other guy claimed that cartoon characters use one-pieces because they are easier to animate and not due to moralism. Them I posted a picture from the 80s when we didn't had all the tools we have today to make animation easier and still they put a bikini while now it is one-pieces. If the "easier to animate" excuse were true we would have seen it in the past too.
That is partially clarified in the story of Jesus saving the adultress from a stoning.
Jesus: What are you doing?
Crowd: This woman committed adultery. We are putting her to death as it is written in the laws of Moses.
Jesus: Very well then, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Crowd: Oh well, I'm out.
Jesus (to the woman): You are free to go, but do not sin anymore.
Meaning that the Ten Commandments still apply, however the various rituals and other brickabrack in the Mosaic Laws were abolished. It's still a sin to commit adultery, however you no longer get a stoning for it.
>use the contrast between tanned skin and untanned skin to illustrate the effect of our product
>whoops, can't draw a naked butt on a product in our puritan society
>... why do we have this dog dragging on the girl's clothes again? Is this dog repellent cream?
Jesus: What are you doing?
Crowd: This woman committed adultery. We are putting her to death as it is written in the laws of Moses.
Jesus: Very well then, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Crowd: Let's get a bunch of kids to do it!
>because that isn't in the torah or tanakh (collectively 'the old testament') anywhere
But everything listed is. So's a proper way to sell your daughter into slavery, killing gays and not eating a hare because its hooves aren't cloven.
They must have signs hanging in the workshop.
"When drawing American orders remember: draw everything like it's going to be shown to a violent rapist later and if he gets a boner he gets your ass."
She have been in bikinis more than once. Bikinis were cool and not a sign of the devil trying to corrupt young minds back them
goddammit /co/ i want panty and/or nude scenes not opinions
>damn straight. conservative traditional christians were letting their kids run around naked just a few decades back
Actually Sally Mann got in trouble in the early 90s for publishing artistic nudes of young girls, but it probably wasn't a big deal to her because she grew up in rural Virginia in the 50s-60s when kids didn't wear a whole lot in the summertime.
>teen pregnancy is good, you dumbass. we just need to get them back to the mature responsible state they were in the old days
Protip: Romeo and Juliet is a morality tale about the follies of young love
Flintstones also had many two pieces too.
One-pieces became common more due to moralism than ease of animation or else one-pieces would have been common back them too.
There were a few scattered moments in the comic books where Lisa is shown in a state of undress however they never really show anything (even her butt is covered up there) when you compare for example French comics.
The son of President Mitterrand is an intellectual who wrote an auto-biography about his boy fucking adventures. When a French-Canadian journalist called him a pedophile the French elites told the pleb to stfu. Pedophilia is only wrong if you're lower class or if it's rape.
Back in those days, little girls also wore high-rider skirts designed to show off their frilly undergarments. When the girl turned 11, the skirt would be lowered to the knee and at 13, it went below the knee. This style died out after 1965 when pants and shorts became normal.
Of course it could also be argued that the underwear in those days covered a bit more than contemporary Fruit of the Looms.
Because people that create old kids shows (John K, Don Bluth, etc) are people with weird, creepy ideas.
Today nobody else would be willing to work making cartoons for manchildren and having to be pretend to be excited about it.
to be even more specific, the TRADITION (which is what these guys were all about, putting tradition ahead of god's actual law) was for the oldest and most respected member to begin the stoning. Seeing as that guy was almost certainly one of her major clients, he didn't. the story says that he left, then the next most holy sorts left, then so on, til they were all gone.
I like how these threads always sound like pedophiles pretending to be for a less prudish society, but not for the benefit of the development of sexual health, but to possibly get some more shit to wank to.
It isn't though. go actually read it.
all it says is 'fish without fins or scales'.. meaning bottom-feeders (catfish and eel family) and carnivores (sharks). Always a good policy.
any idiot would know that crustaceans should logically fall under the insect rules, which would make lobsters and shrimp okay but crabs still forbidden
as for molluscs, you're on your own.
Like I said, a few decades back.
still better than what we have now. they were at least TRYING to fall in love, they just weren't any good at it. And their parents, instead of teaching them how to properly recognize it, were too busy in a fucking feud. It's a morality tale about families too into their own bullshit to keep an eye on (and properly train to maturity) their young people. The audience would have recognized this as a knock on the upper classes, whose youths didn't learn hard work and responsibility very early, married later in life, and were airheads.
or maybe she's wearing really tiny thong.
by the 90s they were pretty solidly demonizing him. that (quite valid by the way) excuse of 'everyone was doing it, it was the 70s' sure hasnt worked for poor probably-innocent bill cosby
Depends on denomination and stuff. A lot of Christians are pretty regular about that stuff. Some of the more aware ones are more likely to be offended or conservative about drugs or violence then they are nudity.
We were made naked after all, it makes far less sense to be conservative about nudity than violence or w,e else.
It looks bigger than anime foreheads.
>we were made naked
That's one thing that I can't believe people fuck up so badly. They act as if the story goes
>they realized they were naked, they put on leaf clothes, and they were no longer naked, so they acted like everything was fine
but it doesn't. it says they made coverings (probably like, duck blinds. no way did they figure out clothing) and HID. they didn't cover their genitals, they hid. God came out like 'why are you hiding?' It couldn't be more obvious that 'naked' here means what it always meant in most of history. exposed. Visible.
The idea of it having anything to do with modern 'shame' is so illogical I can't believe nobody questions it. They're a married couple and their GOD. why would they be worried about someone seeing their genitals?
the only other times the bible brings up nudity it's in a "you're going to freeze to death at night, you drunk idiot, put a blanket on when you go to bed in your tent" or a "you're so poor you're naked, here, have a jacket" way. ain nobody gave a shit about which bits and pieces were showing.
>They're a married couple and their GOD. why would they be worried about someone seeing their genitals?
Because they just got mind-raped by wisdom fruit and were still in shock. Some creative revisionism you have there though.
He's a big giant prude inn'e? I guess it's from living in chicago... because it's WEIRD to me that someone as OLD as him would be so out of touch. He keeps saying "wtf 80s and 90s people were so WEIRD!" and it's like.. Shouldn't that be normal to you, like it is for all of us who aren't teenagers? are you REALLY that SHOCKED that sailormoon has sexy teen girls in it, when literally everything made in your pre-30s lifetime did? Are you really going to keep complaining about INSENSITIVITY in 90s movies?
Just because it's missing from one manuscript doesn't mean it wasn't originally there.
this is, by far, the most well and accurately-copied piece of literature in history (not that europe didnt do their damnedest to fuck it up) but the scribes still made a few errors here nad there. a few numbers fudged, a few bits accidentally left out (maybe damaged).
anyway if it had been added it still would have been sometime around 60 AD, not 600. We can tell the shit that was added in the roman era, it stands out.
>Exactly, you just want a girl who doesn't assert herself and subordinates her desires to yours, that's what makes you beta.
Isn't that like the exact opposite of what a beta would want?
As opposed to a girl who asserts herself constantly and makes you subordinate your desires to hers?
>The audience would have recognized this as a knock on the upper classes, whose youths didn't learn hard work and responsibility very early, married later in life, and were airheads.
Infact in Shakespeare's England, the average age of marriage was about 25.
you know I recently rewatched all of sailormoon, and I have to say original-waifu ami has not really aged well. She is kinda feeling personalityless now, especially compared to the others, who became more hilarious even as their role became marginalized
still, she's cute and sweet and I will always love her.
indeed. and i'm sure they were looking for an opportunity to call him a hypocrite
nevermind that that's the entire POINT. he's not just 'the man' some rich guy looking down on the lower classes, he has LIVED that life, he got OUT of it, and nobody knows better than him what a shithole it is. Whenever he speaks on some issue, right or wrong, he speaks from experience. I don't totally agree on what he said about gun control, but he made a good point: if you're some scared piece of shit in the ghetto, a gun is just going to make you less scared. FEAR IS GOOD if you live in that place. Staying inside because you don't wanna get shot is healthy. Going out and pissing off gangbangers because you have a gun in your pocket is retarded.
Yes it's a myth that teenage marriage was normal at one time. It's generally always averaged around mid-20s in the US and Western Europe excluding some hillbilly cousin fuckers in Appalachia. Thus why R&J was a morality tale about the follies of teenage romance.
mmm no, people have always married and reproduced in their teens. they also had jobs and shit.
this was solidly follies of dumbass upperclass romance. teenagers with real jobs werent that stupid.
but whatever this is a dumb conversation. more nudity in cartoons.
>golly it's almost as if we're not apes
HOLY FUCKING SHIT THE RETARD KEEPS SPITTING OUT GEMS
Why do people make fun of atheists again when this kind of deranged idiocy is exclusive to religion?
>teenagers with real jobs werent that stupid.
I'm pretty sure peasant teens just fucked around with almost no supervision and if they were caught getting a girl pregnant they were forced to marry her. Similar to lower class teens today.
I'm German and my sister is 15 (I'm 20). She went naked on the strand until fairly close to puberty then start wearing a bottom. she's never worn a top though and will still walk around in the garden naked, but normally puts a bottom on if males are around.
Why do you think it's possible if it's not okay? Whether it's god or nature, it doesn't make mistakes. We know for a fact this can work, and HAS worked for millennia. It can work again. People will act exactly as mature as you expect them to, no matter how old they actually are. Employ them, treat them as adults, give them responsibilities and harsh punishments for wrongdoing, and let them use their bodies while they're still at the peak of potency and health. When they can still rebound from the stresses kids put on their bodies, and their parents aren't too decrepit to be able to help out a bit too.
It's always ok without nipples
show me an ape with eyebrows and a beard. we're fucking carnivores dude. hunters. totally different kind of primate. as different from apes as apes are from monkeys. this couldn't be more clear. Look at the arm to leg ratio for god's sake.
1. In 1600 the average age at first marriage was about 28 (for men) and 25-26 (for women). It fell gradually over the next two centuries, though by the 1830s it was still as high as 25-26 (men) and 24 (women).
(Incidentally, this drop in the age at which people married was a major factor in the population explosion of the 18C and 19C, since it meant that most women were married for slightly longer and therefore bore one or two more children. Another was the increasing proportion of women who married - in the 16th and 17th century as many as a quarter never married, but by the 19th century the proportion marrying had risen, thus further increasing the number of births).
2. The earliest age at which it was lawful to marry in the 16th century was 14 for boys and 12 for girls. However marriage at such a young age was very uncommon. In the 17th century only around 10% of brides in first marriages were teenagers, and most of them were in their late teens, 18 or 19 - those aged 15 were only about 0.5% of the total. The Cambridge Group didn't even bother to produce statistics for marriages at 14, 13 or 12, indicating how uncommon that was.
The fall in marriage age which occurred at the end of the 18th century and into the 19th century increased the proportion of teenage brides - between 1775 and 1835 the proportion of brides in first marriages aged under 20 had risen to about 20%, though again most of them were in their late teens, and the proportion aged 15 was still under 1%.
Closest thing I have but it has nothing good
Traditionally the age at which individuals could come together in a sexual union was something either for the family to decide or a matter of tribal custom. Probably in most cases this coincided with the onset of MENARCHE in girls and the appearance of pubic hair in boys, that is, between twelve and fourteen, but the boundaries remained fluid. In much of classical Greece this was true of both same- and opposite-sex relationships. In Republican Rome, marriage and the age of consent were initially private matters between the families involved. Not until the time of Augustus in the first century C.E. did the state begin to intervene. Marriage then legally became a two-step process, a betrothal which involved an enforceable agreement between the heads of two households, and then marriage itself. Women who were not yet of age could be betrothed with the consent of their fathers, but the woman herself had to consent to marriage.
The Roman tradition influenced peoples and cultures with whom it had come in contact. In the Islamic tradition following Muhammad, betrothal could take place earlier than PUBERTY, perhaps as early as seven, but the marriage was not supposed to be consummated until the girl menstruated and was of age. In medieval Europe, Gratian, the influential founder of Canon law in the twelfth century, accepted the traditional age of puberty for marriage (between 12 and 14) but he also said consent was "meaningful" if the children were older than seven. Some authorities said consent could take place earlier. Such a marriage would be permanent as long as neither party sought annulment before reaching puberty (12 for girls and 14 for boys) or if they had already consummated the marriage. Even if the husband had technically raped his wife before she reached puberty, the marriage was regarded as consummated. It was this policy which was carried over into English common law, and although consent was necessary, force and influence or persuasion seemed to have been permissible elements. Similarly Gratian's ideas about age became part of European civil law.
Indeed. But the registers tell a different story
The American colonies followed the English tradition but the law could at best be called a guide. For example in Virginia in 1689, Mary Hathaway was only nine when she was married to William Williams. We know of her case only because two years later she sued for divorce, and was released from the covenant she had made because the marriage had not been consummated. Interestingly, historian Holly Brewer, who discovered the case, speculated that if William had raped Mary, she probably would not have been given the divorce. The only reliable data on age at marriage in England in the early modern period comes from Inquisitions Post Mortem which involved only those who died and left property. It appears that the more complete the records, the more likely it is to discover young marriages. Judges honored marriages based on mutual consent at age younger than seven, in spite of what Gratian had said, and there are recorded marriages of two and three year olds. The seventeenth-century lawyer Henry Swinburne distinguished between the marriages of those under seven and those between seven and puberty. He wrote that those under seven who had said their vows had to ratify it afterwards by giving kisses and embraces, by lying together, by exchanging gifts or tokens, or by calling each other husband or wife. A contemporary, Philip Stubbes, wrote that in sixteenth-century East Anglia, infants still in swaddling clothes were married. The most influential legal text of the seventeenth century in England, that of Sir Edward Coke, made it clear that the marriage of girls under twelve was normal, and the age at which a girl who was a wife was eligible for a dower from her husband's estate was nine even though her husband be only four years old.
yes and they were complaining about it because it was something they could fix
now it's just "oh well that's our young people. better bolt down what they're allowed to do then let them run wild within those limits"
the funny thing about this or any kind of discussion is that you always have these passionate people who have only recently begun to study, all yelling at each other, while the older more experienced people are quiet because they've already been through this and realized a few important facts
>We know nothing
>nobody can convince anyone of anything
>arguing leads nowhere
eventually you either become a huge extremist asshole as a way of life, or you give up
The age of consent was more variable than a summary of the law seems to imply. Peter Laslett, for example, used available statistics to argue marriage and child bearing in the late teens was not common in England and marriage at twelve was virtually unknown. The problem is that his statistics might well be skewed because in England only a small portion of marriages were registered, and even on these registrations it is difficult to tell if they recorded first or second or later marriages. A second marriage by a man in his late fifties or a woman in her early thirties skews the data. Not all marriage records even bother to record the participants' ages. Unrecorded are marriages without parental consent and private weddings and the quality of data varies from region to region. For example in the parish of Middlesex County, Virginia, there is a record of fourteen-year-old Sarah Halfhide marrying twenty-one-year-old Richard Perrot. Only in the last sentence of the register does it indicate that she was a widow. Did the compiler read that far? We simply do not know what her age at first marriage was, or even if it had been consummated. Of the ninety-eight girls on the ten-year register, three probably married at age eight, one at twelve, one at thirteen, and two at fourteen. Historians in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries have sometimes been reluctant to accept data regarding young ages of marriage, holding instead that the recorded age was a misreading by a later copier of the records. Natalie Davis, whose book The Return of Martin Guerre became a movie, made her heroine, Bertrande, much older than the nine-to ten-year old girl she was when she married her missing husband.
absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. aside from the dead sea scrolls we're pretty fucked as far as old references. The number of sources is too low to make any kind of definitive or even speculative statement on what appeared when
>and let them use their bodies while they're still at the peak of potency and health
Yeah he's trolling.
Teen pregnancy is actually very dangerous especially under the age of 16. Childbearing is the biggest cause of death for teenage girls worldwide.
Before modern medicine it was the same as over 18 years olds and lower than over 35 years old.
The reason why teenagers above 15 have higher risks is not due to biological factors but because they are less likely to do a proper prenatal.
>absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence
That's retarded and you know it. Absence rarely leaves "evidence", because if it doesn't exist, how can it leave evidence that it doesn't exist?
All we know is that early manuscripts don't contain it, and later ones do. So either it was added later or all our older manuscripts have a very specific copying error.
I think it's more likely that it was added later, since the Churches have never shied away from "creative editing".
That gave me quite a hearty chuckle. Thank you, anon. I was feeling quite blue today.
we don't have enough manuscripts for you to decidedly say that.
you're right about catholics fucking shit up, but there's generally consensus on which shit they added because it has their thumbprints all over it. This is just the end of a chapter being lopped off, which happens a lot. Throw a dart at a list of the new testament chapters and you'll find one with a footnote about how they aren't sure if that ending was added later or not.
point is we can't know for sure, and it's DAMN consistent with other shit he said. Unless we have records of some roman faggot adding it (which we do have for a lot of their shit), it's fair to include (but always with a footnote explaining how it might have been added later)
>The reason why teenagers above 15 have higher risks is not due to biological factors but because they are less likely to do a proper prenatal.
Not at all true. The girl's body at that age is too small and underdeveloped for safe childbirth. Teenage girls are more prone to anemia, dehydration, and premature babies/low birth weight. Also difficult or prolonged labor due to not having fully grown hips and pelvic muscles. In fact girls under 16 have 5x higher chance of dying in childbirth than women in their 20s. It's estimated that childbirth kills 50,000 girls worldwide each year and up to a million babies born to teenage mothers also die.
>the bible being written at the time it was happening
Nigga, the first books of the bible were passed down as oral tradition and weren't actually written down until several hundred years after that shit happened. Hell, even the four gospels of the New Testament date back to several hundred years AFTER the events they describe, which is why they are all different in their accounts. For all we know, none of that shit actually happened.
If you aren't a fully grown adult at 15 you are severely retarded
I don't know where this meme comes from that "oh they look so OLD for their age" whenever we see adult teens, but.. I guess it comes from cartoons? Everyone acts so surprised that their "kids" are all grown up, but.. no. that's adulthood. Always has been
childbirth has always been dangerous, for everyone. when you get pregnant, your body finishes up developing. and it's a LOT better at doing that while your metabolism is still in teenager mode.
all your other statistics are outright lies
exodus is the first time things were actually written down as they happened. Everything prior to that, it wasn't. There was no writing yet.
the new testament was written down 30-ish years after the events happened, after the disciples retired from traveling and proselytizing and started writing shit down.
>The girl's body at that age is too small and underdeveloped for safe childbirth.
>Teenage girls are more prone to anemia, dehydration, and premature babies/low birth weight.
Due to not doing a proper prenatal Prenatal have a series of measures to prevent those events
>Also difficult or prolonged labor due to not having fully grown hips and pelvic muscles.
Hips part is false. The bone structure is mostly formed at that age. The pelvic muscles is due to modern sedentary life style.
>In fact girls under 16 have 5x higher chance of dying in childbirth than women in their 20s. It's estimated that childbirth kills 50,000 girls worldwide each year and up to a million babies born to teenage mothers also die.
1. I stated teenagers over 15, of course a 4 years old pregnant is an issue
2. Prenatal care is very important. This is what happens if you don't do it.
Now I'm going to address this scene for a moment because it's often and erroneously brought up asn an example of Lisa being shown naked.
According to David Silverman, Lisa was always intended to be wearing a body stocking but the Korean animators never bothered coloring it in. They had a lot of color snafus in Season 1.
>Hell, even the four gospels of the New Testament date back to several hundred years AFTER the events they describe
I cannot snicker hard enough
Guys this guy thinks the roman catholics invented christianity out of whole cloth. That is.. adorable.
dumbass, why would they have bothered with the whole jewish connection then? By the time you're talking about, they were trying their damnedest to DENY and demonize the hebrew roots. It would make no sense that they had only just recently invented it.
this motherfucker gets it.
We used to have midwives and doulas. now it's all 'let's put it all in the hands of cold unfeeling doctors. that'll be fine, right?'
From the brilliant minds who brought you 'wearing-a-fucking-gown-to-your-doctor's-exam.'
>If you aren't a fully grown adult at 15 you are severely retarded
At 15 a girl bone structure is mostly formed. She won't grow much anymore.
That and teenage girls are usually too stupid/immature to take proper care of themselves or handle the stress of pregnancy.
If you were curious on the specifics, women's fertility peaks at about 23 and 19-28 are considered about the optimal ages for childbearing.
I was. Those around me were often severely physically inferior for a variety of reasons.. I was considered unusually well developed for my age. But I know that through most of history that wasn't the case.
Funny too because people keep talking about our nutrition and maybe environmental shit (hormones or whatever theyre bitching about this week) is making puberty come EARLIER.. well fucking diet-ass eat-your-greens no-more-bacon-fat-as-a-condiment modern diet sure isn't doing girls any favors.
In any case you have to also remember that the influx of immigrants right now is largely from the wee races so that has an effect
Could you fuckers stop disagreeing with me already?
Could it be any more obvious now that anyone can say anything, put "in fact" or "Actually" or "Studies show" in front of it, and claim vehemently that it's the truth?
Just give up. I'm right, society is wrong. Older society was more right in some ways, but wayyy more wrong in other ways.
Now let's talk about fucking cartoons because this is a goddamn cartoon board
>I was. Those around me were often severely physically inferior for a variety of reasons.. I was considered unusually well developed for my age. But I know that through most of history that wasn't the case.
>I was a special snowflake misunderstood child prodigy
What is the American stance on nude kids in comic books?
I assume a scene like this wouldn't fly, nowadays.
But if a comic was published with nalked kids, could they catch shit for it?
you know its funny, I went to go see a production of Anything Goes not long ago which was written in 1934, and was surprised by how raunchy it was. The plot is little different from your typical screwball comedy movie of the time but there's tons of sex jokes and gay jokes all over the place. So I guess people weren't really that lame back then, they just had to act that way in movies.
legally speaking, there's no such thing as an illegal image
But nothing is run by government restriction, thanks to the constitution. Things are instead run by fascist organizations voluntarily given power by a few loud angry cranks. THOSE organizations have pretty wibbly rules, so there really is no solid way to answer your question. You could get canceled for anything, or you could get away with anything
the 30s was a very.. unusual time in between wild hedonism and buttoned-down restriction.
Nothing expresses it better than prohibition. It was the law, it was enforced (sometimes), but absolutely EVERYONE in cartoons and films was having a nip o' bootleg hooch.
Humans ain't really an exact science. You're speaking of averages and estimates and not of a solid thing that can be measured down to the smallest inch. Our concept of a year is just based off of planetary rotation anyway. Time and growth is kind of an inexact science.
Studies have been made and they found out that in regions where they manage to make teenagers perform prenatal care the increased risk were gone, specially in the group above 15 years old indicating that the reason for the risks is in fact that teenagers are less likely to do a proper prenatal or start it late.
adult at 15 here. i was still okay at 20 but after that it was rapidly downhill for me. by 25 i wasn't even getting random boners anymore.
everyone's different. there are fucking 7 year old adults and 30 year old children. rare as fuck extremes, but you get my point.
>things were written down as they happened
Actually, many scholars place the origins of the Book of Exodus around the 6th century BC, around when the Jews were in exile in Babylon. It is only Jewish and Christian tradition (AKA, that shit that has no verified historical basis) that backs your claim.
>lacking any reading comprehension
Nowhere in my post did I imply that Christianity was invented wholesale by the Catholic Church. I merely stated that the earliest manuscripts we have of the four Gospels tend to date back to several hundred years after the life of Christ. Even if these accounts had existed before that time, it is uncertain how many times they were edited or changed through being passed down orally. Thus, those records can, from a historical standpoint, be seen as unreliable at best and, at worst, completely falsified. While Christianity had existed since before it's adoption as state religion of Rome, it is likely that much of the official doctrine was changed to suit the purposes of the state.
nah our earliest ones are older than that. Remmeber that earlier discussion about the 'he who has no sin' story? both the assertions of when it was written are older than that
you just have your dates wrong, dude. a lot of what you're saying is both true and accepted fact (those don't often overlap), but your timeframe is wrong. 'several hundred years after' is solidly in the time of the romans. Our manuscripts go back to the early pre-roman christianjewish church
well it's one of those "i hit him, he is hit" grammatical confusions, but yeah. Point is he clearly wanted to react purely out of fear, but he stuck with his guns out of selfishness, and in the end it was not being SCARED into letting them go that happened. Because that would be fucked up. That would just be god solving all your shit for you, and that would be a retarded story to write, whether legitimately or in the 'making shit up to control people' fedora theory
it happens, dude. i'm not even exaggerating. the oldest couple to ever have a kid was 7 and 8. they were chinese of all people
and hell if you have the right kind of disorder, you can NEVER go through puberty. but i'm talking just reallly late bloomers here.
we all recognize the world is fucked up
we all want to fix it
we know to fix it we have to change it, against the will of many people
we all think if we argue properly or show enough evidence of past change, we can convince others
but we can't
so let's all shut up
I remember Bomb Queen (probably one of the edgiest comic books in existence, and one that my local comic shop stopped selling) had some child nudity in it.
I have a picture of him eating out his alien faced gf saved somewhere on my hard drive
look at her nose
>Amyfags must be the most beta individuals out there.
I always found this true. Why pick Amy, when Sailor Jupiter is so much better. She even has Lightning as an attack.
I've never heard of a butterhead before.
what if I like Amy and Lita equally?