JOKER JUST KILLED 23 ORPHANS IN AN EXPLOSION THIS NIGHT
BECAUSE YOU LET HIM LIVE YESTERDAY
ENOUGH FUCKING ENOUGH
EITHER YOU WILL TAKE CARE OF HIM...
...OR I WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU BOTH
So Gordon is admitting he could do it, too? Why doesn't he? Why doesn't anyone? Why should it fall on Batman's shoulders and not anyone actually paid to do the job? He's a volunteer, and doesn't have nearly as much responsibility in this matter as the actual justice system to which he hands the criminals he helps to catch.
Here you go, Gordon. All wrapped up like a present
>JOKER JUST KILLED 23 ORPHANS IN AN EXPLOSION THIS NIGHT
But I been sick all week commissioner. Haven't left my bed at all
Nope. Justice at work. Until he pieced together that the judge and hurry had been paid off so he then has to clear Jokers name, only to find out it was Joker that paid them off at the end.
Would you play a game where Batman has to fight the bat family to save his girlfriend?
I've always been wondering why no super rich guy who looses a loved one doesn't just hire some mercenaries or assassins to kill guys like Joker, Poison Ivy or Black Mask.
No capture, just killing them in the most efficient manner possible.
>Deadshot, here's a shitload of cash, kill these criminals, for each kill you get more cash. Don't show-off and make a scene, here's extra money for making it boring for you. Now git.
>killing Ivy and black mask
Its the truth, honestly commissioner. Just ask Haley
I had this story in mind called "One Last Night".
Basically Joker kills Barbra and Gordon uses his influence to create a manhnt for Joker amongst whole Gotham, even crooks (for example Penguin gets a free pass once if he kills him).
Batman goes out of his fucking mind to save Joker and prove that is not the way.
In the end it turns out Batman and Joker were both mentally ill psychos who played "roles" for their own amusement.
Gordon kills Joker and Batman disappears forever.
>We'll take it from here Batman, thanks
>Bats turns around to leave
>Hears a gun shot go off
>Sees the cop standing over the Joker who now has a 5 inch hole in the back of his head, brains everywhere
The Joker has survived execution before.
>Batman doesn't kill because he can't deal with death. Not because it's the law
No it's always been about the law, theres always stories about him on the edge but choosing to let justice take it's course.
With Joker dead who would entertain Batman?
Do you wish for Batman to "lose it"?
Not even the entire Justice League would be enough to stop Batman
>Autopsy reveals that it was an innocent man with a Joker disguise
>Joker planted a decoy to be caught
>Joker knew that some of the cops in that area would be willing to shoot
>Cop is driven insane by the guilt
>Joker taunts Batman with it during their next fight
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see this happen.
Yeah, he has temptations, but is worried that if he starts he won't be able to stop. He doesn't trust himself. If he kills the Joker, he might find it easier to kill Two-Face next time, and then Penguin, and Riddler, and so on and so on, until he's killing random mooks who could easily stay locked up if he turned them in, or just letting the power go to his head and killing anyone he doesn't like even if they aren't violent. This is part of why he has the Justice League and Bat-Family around. They'd stop him if he was ever going to do that shit.
DID YOU .... DID YOU KILL HIM....IN THE END...COUGH
Don't worry, I put him in Arkham, he is safe there
Twist is he becomes the major rapist in the DC universe.
This, basically. Gordon is the Commissioner. If he put one between the Joker's eyes in the middle of one of his crimes, especially if he directly saved someone's life, who besides Batman would be anything but glad?
Even Batman would probably get over it, especially if he wasn't there to stop Joker.
Whatever, Jim. It's not like those orphans had anything to live for anything...
>the whole "Joker's Face" thing.
Do they expect this to be a lasting thing? I mean, that face is gonna rot to nothing in a year or so... is The Joker gonna go without a face henceforth?
>Why doesn't Batman just Kill the Joker?
>Why doesn't Superman just Kill Luthor?
>Why doesn't Magento just Kill the x-men?
>Why doesn't _____ just Kill ______?
Yeah yeah yeah.
In reality, if anything remotely similar to Batman vs Joker happened, and the vigilante who captures the murderer will not kill the murderer, and the murderer is obviously going to escape or something, then the cops will eventually just take it upon themselves. There wouldn't be an order from the higher-ups. He'd just die of mysterious circumstances.
And none of that matters because they can't kill off one of the most popular villains. Really they can't kill off most villains in general.
Which means that the problem isn't that Joker gets away with everything he does, it's that they have Joker murder dozens of people per day to shock the reader. They really should give up one or the other, even the biggest fan of grimdark stuff can see the plothole plain as day.
Gordon you senile old fuck. They don't throw him in Blackgate. Arkham Asylum doesn't keep him locked up. The legal system doesn't execute him. The other 1000 caped crusaders on this planet don't take it upon themselves to murder him nor do the other superhuman villains he's crossed. And yet out of all the options for dispatching the problem you choose me. Because I'm the one you can call with a little light and yell at.
Stop looking for someone to scapegoat for your own failures. I could prevented Joker from this monstrosity? So could you. Oh wait I guess because you're a lazy ass with a corrupt force of lowlifes you can't do something as simple as put a bullet through him before he rapes a kid.
Maybe if you weren't so busy scrapbooking Babs would still have a functional lower half. Or was that my fault too for not strangling Joker the time I caught him before that? Or was it yours for not executing him in his cell where he was defenseless?
Christ Gordon, take your pills and take a nap.
That would piss me off and turn me off from his comics forever.
The Joker cannot have that level of preparation. It makes the story boring and without any tension. It basically says "we'll use any cop-out necessary, even if it sacrifices story integrity."
You're unwell, Jim. I can see your heartbeat. Hear the wheezing of your lungs. Those cigars are killing you, but what's worse is the stress. You aren't aware of what you're saying.
I can't kill the Joker. I would love nothing more than to put him down like the dog he is, but those aren't our rules. Yours, and mine. What I do skirts the edges of law and order, and it's been that way since the day I put this mask on. And you told me yourself, once, that you tolerate what I do because I walk that line without going to the far side.
I subdue criminals. I leave them for you to arrest, but that's all I can do. I can't detain them. I can't try them. And, God help me, I can't kill them. The moment I do, I shatter the back of the law we've both sworn to honor.
You've had a long night, Jim, so I'd suggest you get some sleep. But before you go, I want you to ask yourself: why does the Joker always make it back your jails safely? Why hasn't a squad car ever lost control in the rain, and skidded off a high road? Why hasn't an accidental discharge from your sidearm blown his demented brains over a wall? Why hasn't he been "trampled" underfoot in the dozen jailbreaks he's led, amid the chaos? I don't kill, Jim, because we've both agreed this was for the best.
What's YOUR excuse?
>Bullseye kills 400 people by blowing up some apartment building
>Daredevil fucking kills him finally
>next 10 issues is nothing but "WHY MATT. WHY? WHAT HAVE YOU BECOME? WHO ARE YOU? YOU ARE A MONSTER"
>Turns out I was being controlled by a demon! Now let's fight!
Boy that pissed me off something mighty. If you're gonna set up a halfway decent moral conflict like that, don't cop the fuck out of it.
Why is paralysis never an option?
How is locking someone up in prison for life any more moral than disabling them?
At least this way they literally wouldnt be able to break out of prison 30 times and kill a thousand more people.
Snap their necks, paralyze them and put them in lower security where they can watch TV, read etc
My excuse is that I thought you were supposed to be the one to clean Gotham.
People do not see you as a hero.
People DO NOT want you yo be a hero.
They want you to be the chemo for the cancer plagueing this city
Tell me, do you really think I let you roam free because of some stupid "justice"?i thought you would do the things I simply cannot do.Besides...it is your responsibility.
Before you appeared all we had were crooks and mobs.Poison Ivy?Killer Croc?Joker?They appeared when you started your little crusade.
You failed me on all accounts.
Either you will start fixing your mistakes or I will have to cut your wings Batman.
Honestly, I'd blame the environment as much as I'd blame the writer. Diggle is perfectly capable of writing morally grey protagonists, but if Shadowland had been 100% Matt's work, it'd risked breaking the character for any future iterations, regardless of how much sense it made. Having it be the work of some evil demon possessing Matt is having their cake and eating it, a story about conflicting feelings and hard questions that still leaves a way out that doesn't tarnish Matt, but damn if that cake doesn't leave a bad aftertaste.
You act like status quo can change in comics.
He literally just left for a year then came back and everything was hunky dunky.
Nobody cared he was a psycho murdering dictator that declared marshall law in a small section of new york after like... issue 5
No problem commissioner Gordon.
You know that my rouges gallery keeps on getting thinner and thinner.
it seems that some just fall off the face off the earth schway
Batman wouldn't care if Gordon shot Joker so long as it was justified by law, which, with Joker it probably would be. Batman doesn't go around the GCPD taking their guns away and telling them they can't use deadly force. He just don't believe people who act outside of the law can.
Magneto doesnt kill the XMen because he believes deep down that Charles will come see the light eventually and join his side.
Superman doesnt kill Luthor because that would be an alien interfering with Earthican justice.
Batman doesnt kill the Joker because hes a chickenshit.
>Turning the best character in Batman comics into a mouthpiece for your shitty nothing arguments
Because Fanboys will bitch and cry and scream BAT OF MURDER
This is a bad story born from a classic misunderstanding of the characters. Batman doesn't resist killing the Joker because "lol homolust," but because Batman is worried that if he started killing criminals (particularly with the worst of them), he would never be able to stop. The romantic part of the Batman/Joker relationship comes entirely from the side of the Joker, and is actually quite narcissistic. Joker is in love with Batman as a reflection of himself, not for who Batman is.
>Superman doesnt kill Luthor because that would be an alien interfering with Earthican justice.
Superman doesn't mind interfering with Earthican justice as much as he doesn't like vastly changing the course of history, aside from stopping immediate deaths and injuries, which includes saving the planet or universe pretty often.
He also doesn't kill Luthor because he knows Luthor is an incredibly talented person and he wants to believe he can become good one day. I'm pretty sure this was canon Pre-Crisis, that Luthor would eventually become Superman's greatest ally. The Legion knew but they would never say anything because they're dicks.
imagine if Rorschach was in current DC Universe
he would have end up killing lots of villains
I assumed it was more some kind of fucked up Hyppocratic oath thanks to his father.
Batman no only resists killing because he's afraid it'd send him over the edge but he stops killing and death because he believes in an obligation to stop apparent imminent death even if that means hypothetical future death which he'd still try to stop anyways.
Though really it's not his responsibility.
If Cops want Joker dead it's their job to kill him.
Depending on writer.
While it definitely has to do with the death of his parents, I don't think he took that oath because his father was a surgeon. I think it's more of a "stare too long into the abyss and it stares back" thing. Y'know, becoming what you hunt, etc. etc.
I would say Batman doesn't refrain from killing out of some sense of self-righteousness, but because he fears for his own soul.
Batman was a cold-blooded son of a bitch in the Golden Age. The "No killing. No guns." is a holdover from Silver Age Batman, which was camp as all fuck. The problem is writers want this Batman while still keeping the stories as grimderp as possible, which leads to it being fucking retarded.
There's only one guy with balls to take care of business permanently
Ok. So how does one kill the joker?
Knives, guns, chemicals, acids, crushing rocks/machinery, falling out of an airplane with no parachute, bombs, NUCLEAR BOMBS, have been tried, he just gets back up with no injuries within a day.
How do you kill someone who can simply re-appear after being vaporized by a 10 megaton thermonuclear explosion?
I know many of you would ask what happens next, so...
>Batman was a cold-blooded son of a bitch in the Golden Age.
Only in the very first stories. Robin was introduced under a year after Batman, and he had already been toned down a lot by then. A few months later and, nope, they didn't kill anymore.
>If a super-prison capable of holding all the world's villains forever COULD exist, it already would, but it can't so it doesn't.
He's friends with Superman, he has access to the Phantom Zone. He could do it if he wanted.
Bruce does actually put money into better security, but money can only do so much
Yeah, because the Phantom Zone NEVER fails to keep its inmates in. There has never been a storyline (multiple?) about it doing JUST THAT.
It doesn't work, no matter how you slice it. If SUPERMAN were capable of constructing a prison that could contain all the DC universe's baddies, he would have ALREADY DONE SO.
It hasn't been done because it can't be done.
This particular issue occurred because the writer in question was bitter about DC shutting down his idea of permanently killing off the Joker (well, as "permanently" as that term can get in the world of comics). Inadvertently however, it ended up showcasing one aspect of the Joker quite neatly: he's not entirely of this world. We should all already understand this by the time we find out he took a bath in acid and came out relatively alright, but for some reason people still consider Joker to be just a psychopath with a clown fetish. He is, for all intents and purposes, a malevolent trickster god.
Problem is that post's reference is Arkham Asylum: Living Hell, yes Arkham Asylum is built over a hellmouth, but that series also showed that Arham Asylum's hiring practices is "go to bar/bus depot, hire random drunks willing to beat up prisoners" and fake their credentials. Arkham Asylum's staff is literally made up of incompetent hobos.
See, the both of you have kinda defeated your argument in your posts. You both mention how "only a few get out" or "Zod escapes less often," but the important part of all that is that it HAPPENS. There are no unbreakable super-prisons. They wouldn't be goddamn super-villains if you could just toss them in a cell and throw away the key. That's what you do to REGULAR villains.
Well I'm being generous because I doubt I've read every phantom zone story ever. In the New 52 we don't know how Doomsday got out originally but it seems like he was maybe almost powerful enough to do it himself (I think he got help the current time). So if you put a human in there it will be fine.
so heres my question as a third party:
Why dont we throw arkham into the phantom zone
and then throw the phantom zone into ANOTHER phantom zone?
Just have an endless fucking pocket of phantom zones and keep stuffing phantom zones in.
I agree, if you tossed a normal human into the Phantom Zone, they would be hard pressed to escape without outside help. However, the Joker is about the furthest thing from a normal human that it's possible to be without actually being from another planet.
Because then the villains would inevitably get hold of something called the Phantom Lance (I'm ass-pulling here, much like comic book writers do) which allows them to simultaneously puncture each layer of this Phantom Zone matrix and clear a path to real space, thus escaping.
Basically, no prison/alternate dimension/fortress can hold supervillains forever because otherwise there would be no more stories.
Well Kryptonians can't seem to get out without help, and Joker ain't shit compared to them. Putting Joker on Doomsday's level is nuts.
Marvel comics exist in the DCU. Marvel and DC have crossed over canonically several times. This isn't one of those times, it's just non-canon and don't worry about it.
Even Castle got it right...
Yeah, putting Joker on the same physical level as Doomsday is surely madness. But Joker doesn't need to use brute strength to escape, that's never been his forte anyway (he's a good fighter and fast, but has never been portrayed as physically powerful). The Joker would inevitably find some way to cheat the system and escape. He's the trickster god, it's kinda what he does.
To be clear, I'm not some guy with a huge boner for Joker. I'm just saying what we all know would happen should this take place in comics.
>Marvel comics exist in the DCU. Marvel and DC have crossed over canonically several times.
I read one of my Sensational Spider-Man trades, and Spidey mentioned Batman an awful lot.
Well duh. But if we're thinking too meta we might as well not talk about it, because we all know what's going to happen on a meta level.
Marvel and DC Comics exist in each others' universes. This could theoretically mean someone from DC could read a Marvel comic where someone mentions that Clark Kent is Superman and figure it out... but don't worry about it.
okay, okay, sounds reasonable, so how about THIS:
We toss the Phantom Zone Pancake into...wait for it...AN OCEAN? If its too far down, then when they try to resurface theyll go pop!
>mess with the bull....
What did joker think would happen when messing with an unstable alien with godlike powers? That his buttbuddy batman who has no real way to stand up to said alien would save him somehow?
>Joker finally dies
>Goes to Hell
>The Devil just gives him demon powers and he gets resurrected
Yes. One of those threads that someone puts up almost everyday. you know, like 'man of murder', and now "GOTG sucked because the batteries in hos tape cassette should have warn out and now I cant sleep at night waaaan". ah, internet fanboys. nothing if not predictable.
Joker is still around because he is probably the #1 most popular villain. he will never really die, and if he does he'll be back. deal with it.
Gordon has had multiple opportunities to kill the Joker, and everytime he had a completely valid excuse to do so.
Unfortunately, Jokers plot/fanboy armor means no one can ever permanently kill him, and any character with even a shred of morality will refuse to kill the Joker for some incomprehensible reason.
Have there even been any battles between Catwoman and the Joker?
let me go ahead and spoil that one for you, Kryptonite tipped tracer rounds
you shoot superman a few times with the regular gun and he shows off showing how he's bulletproof then you get to the kryptonite rounds.
You don't. you let him think you are a common thug and a mercenary so he lets you hit him. Superman has a history of showing off that he's bulletproof to common thugs.
play it off as a common thug and he will literally let you shoot him.
Many times he was surprised with kryptonite coming out of nowhere. And he could expect such tricks from super villains, not a street thug.
It is like going to the doctor with symptoms of a flu, he is not going to order tests for Ebola
no, nothing like that. Lead ends up in a lot of consumer products, especially from china. wouldn't be hard to get a chinese gun.
I bet supes gets super annoyed by all the chinese products in american stores now. almost as bad as ancient greece with all the lead.
Naw, he's really not. In fact, I'm having a hard time thinking of a new 52 story where he is affected by Kryptonite at all, except for when Metallo first showed up, which was at the beginning of his career. Maybe Kryptonite Man also showed up or something. And even then, those are supervillains who happen to have Kryptonite as part of their powerset, not just someone holding a piece of Kryptonite.
Kryptonite is really overstated by people who don't actually read the stories.
I would think he would scan the gun just because it's dangerous and it's good to just do a simple check.
I mean, his body is built for that kind of fact checking.
I guess that might stop him.
I wasn't trying to say that kryptonite is the "easy button" Superman weapon. It's not, but he IS constantly surprised by it, unless we're talking ONLY about New 52 Supes which seems kinda dumb to me.
The easy-mode Superman weapon is mind control.
No, if we're talking Pre-Flashpoint Kryptonite is even less of an issue. it was established that he had built up significant immunity to it and everything, so it really wasn't that big a deal.
To clarify, I don't see why we should ignore the breadth of Superman's existence because someone decided hitting the reset button would make some money. That has happened before, it will happen again. If that gives you cause to invalidate stories that came before then or makes them lesser creations in your eyes, I would say you probably won't enjoy reading comics very much.
No, I wasn't trying to say we should ignore all of his existence, I was saying that in the last three years, Kryptonite has almost never come up. The only time it became significant was recently when Sam Lane covered the entire earth in a Kryptonite fog, which wouldn't kill Superman, it would only weaken him enough that he couldn't control the Doomsday virus within him.
No, I don't mean he was completely immune to it, but it would affect him less than regular Kryptonians who don't have his experience. He wouldn't just immediately die because of it.
For a reference, remember in Infinite Crisis when he and Kal-L were fighting Superboy-Prime (wearing Anti-Monitor armor) and flew through Rao, landing on Mogo, who had covered himself in Kryptonite? Kal-El only lost his powers, he didn't die, and that was some serious shit. Way more than just a simple Kryptonite rock.
He doesn't. Not since Man of Steel anyway. He's considered himself primarily earthling for almost 30 years.
Batman would create a giant satellite with the power to create a bunch of superpowerful cyborgs to kill all metahumans.
Also, I think J'onn tried to reach into his mind before. Joker was too crazy for him to control it for long.
You know what I would like to see? Here's what I would like to see.
Batman catches and delivers all the insane, wacky crims to Gordon at Arkham, Gordon straight up kills them once Batman is gone, tells him they were put in super solitary.
Years pass as Batman starts having less and less to do, he can't channel his inner darkness into something productive.
He starts getting a bit weird, imagining the crims he used to put away.
Ends up committing small crimes in order to go to Gordon and be all "Look! Something happened, it's a job for me!"
This, like all addictions, escalates until Batman is staging elaborate and ridiculous crimes in order to make himself feel needed, while his inherent psychological issues come more and more to the surface.
It ends like a Joker versus Batman. Gordon can't bear to kill him, so he keeps locking him up, Batman keeps escaping, this continues until they both die of old age.
>Also, I think J'onn tried to reach into his mind before. Joker was too crazy for him to control it for long.
Joker is too crazy for one things and perfectly sane when it comes with his mater plans. I wish the writers would go one way or the other.
So when Gordon is found not guilty even though he clearly is, Batman would dedicate his time to bringing down the corrupt judges and juries that let him go, then turn him in again.
That could run parallel, Gordon having had enough of Batman's shit could just sling shit his way and it'd be like the whole Joker trying to frame Batman etc.
It'd work, and it'd be fun/I think original. I don't remember reading anything like it.
Plus nothing except Batman Beyond/of the Future dealt with Bruce's retirement and later years properly.
It needs to be done.
Which would lead to the public hating him, as Gordon did the job right, and again turn into Batman as a kind of villain, one that can't give up his fight for supposed justice but also can't really win.
What about his hordes of Robins, Batgirls, and other assorted allies?
...Actually, this could be an interesting story. Batman finally goes off the deep end, enforcing some weird Justice Lord/Kingdom Come style Gotham. It comes down to a shaky alliance of the Batfamily and the remaining Arkham villains to finally stop him.
...Actually that sounds like crap.
I'll show myself out.
find it hard to believe that a man who trusts himself to save Gotham almost single-handedly can't trust himself enough to resist temptation. Isn't it canon that Batman has Green Lantern corp level willpower?
This makes Batman not killing him make a bit more sense. Bruce didn't know at first so not killing him was still a decision, but he eventually deduced it. Joker took interest in Batman after being disinterested in mortal affairs for thousands of years. His goal is now to corrupt what he sees as the real "Super" Man.
There was a story where Joker was gonna be executed, but Batman knew he didn't commit the crime he was being executed for and got him free. Joker thought that was a riot.
Batman would totally be cool with someone else killing the fucker but nobody does, everyone just bitches at him about it. Plus New Jersey doesn't have a death penalty.
Combined the scene. Not sure on the quality.
>Why isn't the Joker deadddd.
Firstly, sliding timelines mean NONE of these characters age or die. Joker has not killed thousands because how long has he existed?
The rough timeline for the New 52 is 5 years. Joker was the Red Hood created in Zero Year. When did the Joker actually appear though? Then - he killed people during whatever his first appearance was and then what? How many did he kill? Then how long was he banged up in Arkham for? Villains might be in there for a long time, for stories sake though it doesn't tell us these things. They get to the action.
>No kill ethics.
These conversations turn to SHIT. Grimdark/edgy have become massive buzzwords, heck even fun has become a buzzword - a meaningless description that doesn't mean much. The two extremes - grimdark or fun?
The truth is mature stories can be great, even fun. I love Grell's Green Arrow - that is mature. Edgy/grimdark is just a description for bad writing. Bad writing is bad. Obviously. Violence for the sake of it instead of adhering to a story is silly. Comics are not just for kids, they were for teens and older. They had mature themes - even some of the original incarnations were very noir/pulp.
You could say this about every single character in fiction. He is a popular villain. If you can't cope with characters surviving ridiculous feats then why read comics? Sure, a nice quality Elseworld about his death would be great. It is honestly, a silly complaint.
Ultimately - Superhero comic books have a cast of heroes and very rarely expand beyond. Unless someone could come up with an amazing new villain for Batman then we will keep seeing the old. Even then, I wish some characters had better stories. Mister Freeze, great in BTAS but he hasn't really had amazing stories in comics. Start writing for DC and change it is about all we can do.
thats some good taste batman.
also, i would to see Frank Castle take a trip to gotham.
>"so mr. castle, you're a big hero today, but do you think you can kill me? The Joker? I bet you ca-"
>Batman: "What did you do?!"
>Frank: "Permanently lower your cities murder rate by 20%, now if you excuse me, i have the other 80% to deal with."
>Even a rightwinger like Chuck Dixon knows it'd be stupid.
considering the right is pro gun ownership and death penalty, i'd assume so.
its the left who i have doubts about in cases.
or you know...quakers.
Even with the five year timeline many characters act like Joker is one of the worst serial killers of all time, which would put his kill count in the hundreds.
Personally I like to think he first showed up as just a kind of eccentric criminal, then as his insanity got worse he progressed into Silver Age whacky asshole Joker, then into creepy ethics-less mob boss, and finally into sadistic murderer
>Superman doesnt kill Luthor because that would be an alien interfering with Earthican justice.
but is clark kent, you know the PERSON Kal El is an actual citizen of earth and has a ful understanding of human laws?
there is a thing in the US called "Justifiable homicide" that even non citizens are allowed to act on.
....i think i just found out why all superheros are based in places OTHER than the midwest and southern US.
>Even with the five year timeline many characters act like Joker is one of the worst serial killers of all time, which would put his kill count in the hundreds.
Yeah but few hundred is not thousands and the common complaint is - why is Joker still around if he killed X000s!
>Personally I like to think he first showed up as just a kind of eccentric criminal, then as his insanity got worse he progressed into Silver Age whacky asshole Joker, then into creepy ethics-less mob boss, and finally into sadistic murderer
Personally I consider Morrison's view (see picture).
This view works more than psychotic murderer. Why? Because it actually makes him seem crazy and redeemable (well by that I mean - he seems like psychiatric help could help). He isn't murdering people 24/7.
I always got the impression that the problem is Batman isn't always supported. Some people will obviously believe that he creates the villains in Gotham.
Also: how many people in psychiatry would jump at a chance to study him?
Batman works within the system and they want him to live - because he is crazy.
Is ineffectual liberal psychiatrists in a lot of Batman comics?
When did the nut take over the nut house.
>Is ineffectual liberal psychiatrists in a lot of Batman comics?
I think the fact the Joker constantly survives can be shown as another reason why Gotham is corrupt.
Corruption is not just about the police officers taking bribes but people at Arkham and other places who just want to study this crazy, this impossible to rehabilitate crazy. Gotham is basically awful from the judges to doctors.
>you shoot superman a few times with the regular gun and he shows off showing how he's bulletproof then you get to the kryptonite rounds.
He'd know they were coming. He's fast enough that his perception of time and his super-eyes would lead to him to seeing the bullets. They'd have to be coated in lead.
>implying Bat-mite doesn't rig reality so villains are never permanently killed off by sane, upstanding citizens or ambiguous off-panel circumstances
>implying he doesn't keep people genre-blind so no one would ever consider just how implausible the circumstances are in their reality to maintain status quo
>implying he's not secretly a terrifying allegory for capefags who's just played for laughs in most of his appearances
>is The Joker gonna go without a face henceforth?
Batman has become an utter joke. Just take a look at this scene from arkham origin.
Not only does batman save the joker/stop him from commiting suicide, he doesn't even try to stop joker from killing his own men. Batman is gay for the joker and DC will continue to milk him for the rest of time.
What if Frank was a government sponsored hero in Gotham. What if the government had given him the licence to kill? Would batman stop him then? How quickly do you think he'd clean up Gotham?
This is a shit image
It's supposed to show how shit MoS (which I don't even really like btw) by contrasting the ideas of All Star, yea?
A mad dog has to be put down is an idea that Morrison's Superman supports (see Darkseid in Final Crisis)
All Star also supports the idea of "you can't save everybody"
>>Batman is worried that if he started killing criminals (particularly with the worst of them), he would never be able to stop.
This has always been a retarded excuse. Then again every excuse they make for Batman not killing the Joker is.
okay that was pretty amazing
yeah at minimum they need to dial it back towards BTAS levels where Joker's only killed a relatively few times, and most of those occurred early in his career and mostly other criminals
that is also pretty great
Why does the Specter kill the Joker?
Why does the Bane kill the Joker?
Why does the Gotham PD kill the Joker?
Why does the Black Mask kill the Joker?
Why does the Cadmus kill the Joker?
I like the Punisher but pretty much every single instance of him going up again anyone with superpowers has read like something written by a 12 year old Punisher fanboy.
The only time it was ever realistic was when he fought Wolverine's son and got his head cut off.
>Batman is Bruce Wayne
>has shitloads of money
>gives himself crazy gear and runs around fighting criminals
>instead of spending the same money on philanthropy
>instead of campaigning to legalize victimless crimes like weed possession.
>instead of lobbying for sex ed to prevent high birth rates among the poor
>instead of donating to mental health institutions to help the clearly mentally ill villains and rehabilitate them
I guess if you solve crime problems, you don't have excusable targets to feel manly beating the shit out of.
This is a problem with all supers, but Batman above all.
>instead of spending the same money on philanthropy
>instead of donating to mental health institutions to help the clearly mentally ill villains and rehabilitate them
He does both of these things you moron
See, this creates an annoying no-win situation for Batman.
If he kills the Joker, even if it stops right there, the GCPD can't in good conscience overlook the fact the Batman's changed his mind and will straight up kill a bitch if he thinks they deserve it because they know he's a pretty good guy overall. Most of them are uncomfortable working with the Bat as it is, if he leaves behind a corpse instead of a subdued criminal one day that shit's going to go bad fast.
At the same time, Joker's popularity means the writers don't have the balls to actually remove him from the picture. If he's sent to prison, he'll bust out, and everyone knows it. If he dies, he'll be back in a couple months, tops. Killing your bad guys hasn't stopped comic book villains before, and it's not going to start when Batman joins the club.
It wouldn't be such a problem if the Joker had remained closer to his BTAS incarnation, who was a dangerous and crazy but not genocidal criminal; he was still out for money and revenge and all that stuff, not racking up as high a body count as he possibly can. It's far more defensible for the Joker not to be straight-up murdered when someone subdues him if they portray him as a crazy criminal who's really no more or less dangerous than your standard gotham criminal, but when he's a serial killer who's taken out more people than cancer, you have a problem coming up with reasons why Batman can't do it, the cops won't arrange an accident, a private vigilante won't step in, and so on.
Honestly, I think it might impress me a lot if the modern incarnation of the Joker just died in an accident and didn't come back. Not like Batman finally overstepping his bounds or anything like that; Batman beats the shit out of him, Joker tries to escape, and he slips on a banana peel, falls down three flights of steps, and breaks his neck.
Hey, I know that episode, when Gordon had enough and started hunting down Batman. Although, he was just hunting down Batman, making a deal with Bane wasn't best idea. But seriously, was there ever Marvel-esque What if...? where Gordon has had enough and dealt with everyone of them freaks including Bats and Babs?