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How will DC retcon Joker cutting off his face?
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How will DC retcon Joker cutting off his face?
>>
My bet is on them making it a thug real Joker threw in acid to see if he could make a friend.
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New 52 version of Hush. Makes the most sense.
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i think some anon had an idea that some cop shoots the joker on accident and due to the fame and insanity that comes with killing the joker he becomes the new joker bcuz reasons
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The Joker that cut his face off is some schmuck that got brainwashed into thinking he was the Joker, plus massive genetic surgery to make him look it.

Real Joker thought it would be funny, if he swapped places with some random nobody for a while. He is currently one of those guys spinning a sign on the side of the road.
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>>64531169
They'll probably just forget one day and make him normal out of nowhere, and then later have people confused when he interacts with his "daughter".
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That the Joker is an extradimensional entity that posseses beings and allows him to do what he does, like not needing sleep, eating, that he can enact plans and do them accordinglt, that allows him to equate the batman in terms of fighting skills and such.

The current host dies, and he jumps to another host.
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>>64531343
In ext month's Harley Quinn it's the whole "5 years later" thing, and his face its back on. He marries Harley.
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he is hauled away by the Indigo Tribe and later comes back healed and back to being a funny gangster instead of a grim derp serial killer.
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How can you retcon it when you have a whole character based around it?
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>>64531475
Joker already appeared 35 years later in the actual Futures End book, they just assume Joker will be back to normal by then.

I'm guessing the one who got his face cut off is a fake one, that's the only way I could see the writers getting out of this mess without just ignoring what happened.
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>>64531475
He already appeared in Future's End, face and all
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Lazarus pit fluid
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>>64531169
they won't, he'll just show up again with a face with no explanation
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>>64531553
Uh, some impostor tried to take his place and the Joker got really offended and cut off his face and then killed him?
It might be good since then the daughter can get some identity crisis going.
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He will grow it make or reattach it.
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>>64531169
Why did he cut it off anyway? Have they explained that yet?
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>>64531663
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What are the odds that Joker's Daughter has one of those tragic resolutions where her brain is fixed but she has to live with the face forever?
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>>64531666
Shaving accident.
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>>64531708
What? Barbara was paralyzed and the retcon for that was she got better. Joker will just recover and get his face reattached.
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In the next big Bat-event he'll get Deadpool-tier healing abilities. When it's over he'll be normal.
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>>64531666
Someone else cut it off. Like a writer was like I want my new OC villain to be badass. Look he cut off the Joker's face! Isn't he cool!
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Control Freak shows up out of nowhere, walks up to Joker, and hits the rewind button on his remote. Boom, Joker's himself again.
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>>64531269
How could a random thug take down the entire Batfam like that?
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>>64531666
He thought it would be cool
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Doctors have a way of shaving a thin coat of skin from a big area, like your thigh, and applying it to areas that lack skin.
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>>64531829
Joker trained him first.
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Just pretend it never happened. Have him show up normal and never bring it up again.
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>>64531169
surgery, skin grafts
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>>64531666
They decided to take "the Dark Knight film version and crank it to 11"
that's an actual quote
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What if he dies(died?), and then comes back with some magic mumbo-jumbo. Something like what's going on in batman eternal with deacon blackfire
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>>64531721
very, VERY slim. I dare say Duela is even more mental than Joker.
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I find this to be the biggest sin of DotF.

Not the hack writing.

Not the ultra-gritty aesthetic.

But the fact that it's essentially fucked an iconic character, to the point that writers will need to resort to some genuinely terrible shortcuts and soft fixes in order to undo it all.

Cause' that's the thing, really.

There's a dozen ways to fix the Joker's face.

But none of them are elegant.

Just look at the idiotic shit /co/ is coming up with:
>>64531308
>>64531317
>>64531425
>>64531549
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>>64532018
>But none of them are elegant.
Introduce him with his face on and never mention his face ever being off.
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>>64531169
Joker from another earth takes his place.
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The Flash merges the universe with another universe where the Joker's face is fine, slaughtering trillions in the process. DC calls it JokerPoint, and relaunches all of it's titles. Superman is now in love with Jimmy Olsen...
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>>64532071
This is DC, not Marvel.
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>>64532071
Can't do that. DC has a recent TPB of a high selling arc on their hands. They just can't acknowledge it.

If DC won't retcon Death in the Family or The Killing Joke, then they certainly won't retcon this.
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Lex hires him to spite Bruce Wayne, using the best lawyers to wipe his criminal record, having his face reconstructed to make him more PRfriendly.

It all goes horribly awry, obviously. Except Joker gets away with a buttload of money and a new capacity to take over a huge chunk of the Gotham underworld.
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>>64531721
What did Duela do with her face?
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>>64532071
Maybe the best answer yet.

Shit, that's basically what Morrison pulled.

The over-the-top Thin White Duke of Death crashed an ambulance into a river and then re-emerged as the immediately-more-enjoyable Oberon Sexton.

Still.

Basically inelegant and relies on the momentum of the story and the strength of the new incarnation to keep it going.
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>>64532018

As I ranted about a few days ago one possibility is a Clayface (heh) transplant.
Also an easy way to have it so he's now affected by the proceedure like Harley was from Joker and Ivy's experiments on her.
Gives him a healing factor.

Now he's proper bullshit and how he takes a beating from Batman and bounces back is explained away. The use of Clayface to disguise or impersonate people as well as the connection between him and Joker has happened before.
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>>64532181
She replaced her real face with that rotting piece of flesh, probably because she was going to be Suicide Squad and the editors needed her "sexier".
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>>64532181
Nothing. It's under her "new" one.
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>>64532018

He could just put the face back on though

Comic books!
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>>64532181
Hid it under her pillow for the face fairy.
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>>64531169
They will probably pull the same shit they did with Harley.

>THERE HAVE BEEN MULTIPLE JOKERS OVER THE YEARS ALL ALONG
>YOU THINK HE WAS THE FIRST? HAHAHA

Then they will pat themselves on the back talking about how mature and deep their storyline is.
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>>64532302
What? She sewed his face onto her face? I thought she ate his face.
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>>64531553
They can get rid of her entirely too, because her existence in this whole mess is as poorly-written as anything else.
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>>64532357
I wouldn't have hated the multiple Harley thing if it was something we only knew about through Joker or Batman rather than locking Harley up in a room of corpses
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>>64532357
Gotham City Sirens did it first.
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>>64532302

Wouldn't a blood transfusion in that area even of that small volume result in rejection if they don't match?
Wouldn't she just end up messed up, hospitalized and drugged?

Man, I've read some out there shit, but people can really just do anything in fiction these days.
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>>64532357
That would actually be the best thing for the character right now. That's how bad it's gotten.
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>>64532357
>They will probably pull the same shit they did with Harley

The thing they did with Harley only doesn't work because the Joker hasn't been active for REMOTELY that long.

Since it's pretty clear from the Joker's Villain's Month issue he tends to have a female sidekick
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>>64532392

She took a bite of it for completely sane and valid reasons.
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>>64532306
Man, shouting "comic books!" doesn't excuse terrible writing.

Can we not aspire to stronger conception and execution in our dumb genre fiction?
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>>64532425
Batman comics run on "realism".
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>>64532508
>Can we not aspire to stronger conception and execution in our dumb genre fiction?

I think your desire for logical consistency is quite unfair anon. Stories shouldn't have to make sense!
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>>64532392
Just a bite. Mmmm.
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>>64532542

Are you sure this isn't parody? Because panel 2 reads entirely too meta to not be parody.
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>>64532508
>Can we not aspire to stronger conception and execution in our dumb genre fiction?
No, because nerds take offense at the idea that comics should be held to the same standards as books or movies.
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>>64531169

Xorn pretending to be the Joker pretending to be Xorn.
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>>64532536
>Joe Simon comics make more sense than current Bat-books

And that shit is wacko.
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Haha people are still bitching about this.

Death of the Family isn't even in the top 10 worst Joker stories of this decade, get over it you faggots.
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>>64532634
Like you'd know.
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>>64532357

Wait so there has been more than one Harley?
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>>64532662
More than you.
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>>64532679

It's unclear, as intended.
Still dumb and without purpose.
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He is not the real Joker.
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>>64532679

Maybe. We know back when the Joker got Jackanapes he was hanging out with a blonde chick who was not Harley, but who may have been "a Harley", for example.
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>>64532508

What's sad is that here we are in the liberated year of 2014, with no comics code and comics more respected as a medium, and you can pick any Joker story from the fucking fifties and it's better written and conceived than the junk we get now.

Fuck, you can go back to the fucking nineties and shit's still better than this.
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>>64532775

What's wrong with the nineties?

Or the CCA for that matter? The biggest problem with the CCA was that it murdered the other genres, not that it was bad for superheroes.
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>>64532169
>If DC won't retcon The Killing Joke,

Uhhh
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>>64532808

Uhhh what?

It still happened. Babs is just walking again.

Of course they SHOULD have fucking retconned it but they're stupid.
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Poor Anons, saddened by the changes in their jokefu.
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>>64532710
That book didn't have a chorus of men sown together, covered in pictures from old Joker comics, or entire graveyards of corpses impaled on spikes.

Seriously, I'd take Lovers & Madmen over that shit, even with it's ridiculous origin for the Joker's smile.

Fuck, I'd even take Hush Returns over DOTF, and that arc consisted of the Killing Joke's origin being made canon(and worse) and the Joker running naked to an amusement park after getting beat up by c-list villains.

DOTF is worse than all of that.
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>>64532425
if it was the same blood type, she would be good, or universal receiver. I don't really understand why she's injecting his blood into her though
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>It's actually a really good makeup prop.
>The whole thing was a practical joke on Batman and everyone was in on it.
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>>64532710

That was generic, not bad.
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>>64531889
Which makes me worried about the Deathstroke book being written by Tony Daniels
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>>64532805
Dixon's Joker was terrible.
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>>64532933
>those joker traps
Mirin so hard it isn't funny
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>>64532805

The ninties is viewed as shit by some people and a lot of creatives view the CCA as a restrictive device that hampered creativity, which it was. However, now that they're finally free of it, instead of the books getting better, they've actually gotten worse.

We've got writers free to do whatever they want and they produce dreck like DOTF.
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>>64531889
Just like how they took the 60's Batman series and cranked it to 11?

DC is fucking terrible at that shit.
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>>64533068
>there are people who hate Batman 66' on this board
>they're in this thread RIGHT NOW
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>>64532634
Off the top of my head, major stories specifically focused on The Joker from the past decade:
>Salvation Run
>The Clown at Midnight
>The Dark Knight
>Joker (Azzarello and Bermejo)
>Batman and Robin
>Arkham Asylum
>Arkham City
>Emperor Joker (BatB)
>The Knights of Tomorrow(BatB)
>Death of the Family
>Injustice: Gods Among Us

Of these, I would argue only Salvation Run and Injustice are on the same general level of bad as DotF. And even so, neither of those stories are so specifically Joker-focused.
>>
>Who's that Pokemon?
>IT'S CLAYFACE
>AGAIN

>It was a clone the whole time. Maybe Cadmus, maybe from another source, doesn't matter, it was a clone and this shit is usually explained away in two-three pages at the most. Joker simply allowed it to exist knowing that it would fuck with Batman's head when the real article showed up

>Joker fell down into the dark abyss and fell into some radioactive shit that mutated him. He now has an overpowered healing factor that causes his face to regenerate, and is now virtually impossible to kill, to the point that Batman need's to constantly "Kill" him just to knock him out long enough for the police to arrive, which causes Bruce's mind to slowly fall down a darker path as, while he's never actually killing The Joker, he constantly has to simulate the act just to put him down, which makes Bruce subconsciously more and more accustomed to taking a life.
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>>64533050
>We've got writers free to do whatever they want and they produce dreck like DOTF

And that's okay. Because the freedom to produce shit and the freedom to produce Great Works come from the same thing. Freedome.
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Isn't like the whole point of Batman Eternal so far to set up the Joker resurrected by magic.
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Couldn't some magic user just "magic" his face back on?
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>>64533106
I didn't say I hated it. Have you read the post Batman '66 comics? They're awful.

It's clear DC didn't understand how camp humor worked and now they don't understand how the Nolan movies work.
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>>64533106

Whoa, let's be clear about something, the sixties Batman series isn't bad. What's bad was DC's attempts to capitalize on it when it hit big.

They really didn't understand the humor of the show and how to write it, so instead of getting "Hizzoner The Penguin", we get shit like "The Penguin Takes A Flyer---Into The Future!"
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>>64533050
>writers are free
>laughingQuesadaandDidio.png
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>>64533281
Or some scientist "science" his face back on?
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>>64533343
>Quesada
>2014
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>>64533287
TDKR didn't work and TDK was carried entirely by Ledger's performance.
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How about they make a skin graft and they surgically put a new face back on. And they they can focus on an arc where he misses his old face and tries to recreate the accident

Idk. I'm not good at fixing edgy messes. .
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>>64533141

I swear that if that happens I'm off Batman for good.

THE JOKER IS A GODDAMN CRIMINAL. HE DOESN'T NEED FUCKING MAGIC.
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>>64533384
That's irrelevant. All DC saw was EDGYGRIMDERP and REALISM.
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Maybe they need to remake The Joker's double where the REAL Joker comes back and teams up with Batman to get the faker out of the way because he's ruining his reputation.
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>>64533384
the Nolan movies weren't batman movies. Change the names to generic action ones and you wouldn't know its batman
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>>64533343

Quesada has no control over what Marvel's writers can or cannot do. Didio, too, as Co-Publisher, actually has less direct control than he did as EIC.

Why does /co/ always fall back to the same scapegoats? Are they so casual that they don't know that Joe Quesada has been CCO and not EIC for years now?
>>
>>64533313
>>64533287
Wait, I thought people liked Batman '66. I thought that was one of the New 52 titles people liked
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>>64533407
>criminals
>batman comics

Pick one.
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>>64533551
This is a new 52 hate thread. No positivity here please.
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>>64533551

They're talking about the 60s comics based on the 60s tv show, not the 2010s comic based on the 60s tv show
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>>64533551
>talking about comics literally published in the sixties after the 1966 Batman series comes out
>someone mistakes it for Batman 66'

Not sure if an idiot or just trolling.
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>>64533550
/co/ only knows characters, not creators.

I mean, they're still blaming writers for stuff editors do.
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>all these people thinking the Joker cut off his face
Why do people talk about comics they don't read?
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>>64533660

Editors also keep them from doing retarded shit though.

Snyder and Diggle didn't get to sever their respective targets' arms due to editors, for example.
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>>64533690
Yeah, but a lot of /co/ has a very naive understanding of the duties of an editor.

Really, /co/ should be keeping tabs on editors as well as a writers. A bad editor will fuck up an entire book, like what happened with Static Shock.
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>>64533661
Yeah, wasn't it some other bad guy, in that shitty batman comic that came out when the new 52?
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>>64533938
I want this guy back
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>>64533867
>Really, /co/ should be keeping tabs on editors as well as a writers.

Even then, that's a shaky proposition. Eddie Berganza's work as an editor is as all over the place as James Robinson's work as a writer, for example.
>>
Marvel did It with Fantomas, he just 'got better' after getting his face cut off.
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>>64532357
Joker is a curse on Gotham, every time a joker dies a new one is born. which is why batman doesn't just kill the joker...
1) He is an innocent who has been warped by the curse.
2) If the joker dies batman has to learn all the new jokers subtle differences.
3) If a joker dies the next one could be significantly more evil than the next.
>>
>>64533068
Whoever that villain is, he needs to be revived

RIGHT NOW
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>>64531169

Something similar to

>>64532357

It's happened before were Joker survived death by having a double fill-in for him. So the same can be applied with Death of the Family Joker. The theory I have is that the Joker, after finding out that Bruce Wayne started Batman Inc., decided to start his own Joker Inc. He would gather random people up, drive them insane, and then unleash them on Gotham. DotF Joker was his first graduate from Joker Inc.
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>>64535402
They should pull a Moon Knight and make Joker like Bushman

Notably, fucking dead.
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>>64531169
Necron or some other evil magically deity from DC will bring him back.

That or through the magic of clones
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>>64532018
>>64532071

Option 1: Bullshit cyborg mask that looks just like real flesh. Proceed to never ever bring up cutting the face off again.

Option 2: Time travel shenanigans = new face just like the old one.

Option 3: He douses someone with Joker gas, makes them believe they are the Joker, then cuts the face off and surgically attaches it to his non-face.

4. You fell for the old fake Joker gag.

5. You fell for the old fake Joker's face gag. His real face has been fine all along!

6. Fuck it, it grew back. Don't ask questions.

7. Magic, ain't gotta explain shit.

8. Cut-face-off Joker disappears and is never heard from again. New pristine faced Joker who is clearly not the same guy steps in and acts like he's totally the old Joker with a face perfectly intact.

9. Medical miracle.

10. Keep the face off and run with it until the reboot in 5 years. Maybe don't use the continuity-fucked clown in every story and only bring him up when you have a genuinely cool idea for a guy who cut off his face. Find a new friend for Batman to play with.

10 options and only like 9 of them suck. Go on /co/, find your own terrible, terrible fixes. Bonus points to whoever correctly guesses the rout DC will go.
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>>64536470
Option 0: He really did die at the end of DOTF.
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>>64531819
>not knowing Dollmaker was pre 52
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>>64533050
DC in the 90's were pretty great.
Sure they had shit titles but for every 1 shit title you tended to have things like The Demon and L.E.G.I.O.N.

Marvel in the 90's were all over the place though
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>>64531169

So DC, you don't know how to return from this shit storm of bad writing yourselves allowed?

Just don't, don't retcon the face thing, make him use child masks from Batman from the 60's and things like that.
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>>64536470
alternate universe Joker
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>>64536470
>6. Fuck it, it grew back. Don't ask questions.

You know, at this point it would kind of make sense to just make the Joker canonically immortal. He's functionally immortal for narrative purposes, and he's casually tossed through so much intensive physical abuse so regularly it might actually make the most sense at this point.

Of course, then we have to deal with the problem of why Batman doesn't just launch him into space...
>>
>>64531666

Some one else did it for him on his request. Then he laughed and the other guy masturbated onto the instruments. Weird shit I tell you.
>>
>>64532018
DoTF didn't fuck him. Daniels's Detective Comics did. It's a wonder that Snyder was able to do anything remotely readable with him in the first place.
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>>64531169
Joker cuts off Harley's vagina and wears it as his face.
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>>64536744

It probably doesn't look any worse than his old face
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>>64536470

You missed one, clayface gets a blowjob from joker and then cums all over his awful cut face and the clay regenerates the tissue with a clay mask that now makes the joker a chameleon of sorts, cum clay mask ftw
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>>64531169
I wish Ledger and retarded edgy teenagers didn't make Joker so fucking popular nowadays.

I'm willing to argue Batman has the best villains but we don't hardly see any of them but Joker and the writing keeps getting worse and worse for him.

Just at the very least tone it down for fuck's sake.
>>
The Joker has his face back in Future's End.

Snyder's probably going to go with plastic surgery or something when he reintroduces the Joker. It's not a big deal. It's still better writing than the bullshit going on in Spider-Man.
>>
>>64536835
Ah, thank you...

Option 11: Clay-facial
>>
Superman comes along out of nowhere, mashes Joker's head in with a gentle touch and throws his dead carcass to the sun. No Joker wannabes or reboots appear because of the humiliating death the Joker suffered.

Seriously, Joker was fine but he's just a boring, obsolete, repetitive, pretentious edgefest caricature.
>>
>>64536973
*caricature now

I miss details like this sometimes. Sorry xD
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>>64536958
>>
>>64536999
>xD
And they say Summer isn't real.
>>
>>64536973
considering Jokers polarizing effect on the other villains im honestly surprised the rest of the Gotham Villains have let Jokers Daughter run around doing all the shit shes done

I think even Bats was surprised at that
>>
>>64536835
this could work
as in the joker finds some way to get some clay and he gets to use it in a limited capacity

it would actually be an interesting trick and make him a dangerous foe without neverending plot armor

seriously the fight scenes with joker and pretty much any of the batfam are stupid
>>
>>64536950
>I'm willing to argue Batman has the best villains but we don't hardly see any of them but Joker and the writing keeps getting worse and worse for him.
You don't read DC much, do you? The Joker doesn't get ENOUGH screentime. Scarecrow has had at least three arcs, Penguin has had two, and the first ten issues of Eternal were based around him. Clayface has been featured in every Bat book so far, and even the Mad Hatter has had more appearances than the Joker.

The problem with the Joker is that they only save him for when they want to do something big. They put him on a pedestal and only use him once every two years on average, and they don't let anyone use him without permission. The Joker is best when he's just doing random crimes, not when he's coming up with these "epic" schemes to destroy the Bat family or whatever.
>>
>>64531169
They won't because hey, the Joker's already coming back with a fresh face. During Forever Evil it was mentioned that Joker was walking around with a new face, but we weren't sure where or who he was. Well apparently in Future's End the Joker pops in with a fresh, firmly attached face. No loose hanging skin, or it being stapled on. Not even rotting.
>>
>>64537086

If I see this shit in the comics I will furiously masturbate to a picture of myself for being a stupid hack that gave up for free and idea. lol
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I'm more upset about what Snyder did to Freeze's relationship with his wife.
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>>64537136
IDGAF about Mr Freeze, and the plot twist was actually pretty cool so I wasn't even mad.
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>>64536329
Wait, when did he die? The last I remember he was in Ravencroft.
>>
>>64537136
Why? The Timm angle was really played-out.
>>
>>64537136
The original angle was that Nora had been dead for years, but Victor refused to acknowledge it.

Editorial wanted her alive for some reason.
>>
>>64537136
no one is allowed to get married
>>
>>64531294
Ho. Lee. Shit.
>>
>>64535428
So... the Joker is Doctor Mabuse?
>>
>>64536973
Well, if you want an ignominious death for Joker... let him get infected from the whole... y'know... cutting off his damn face! thing.
>>
>>64537910
Tsi
Nan
Fu
>>
>>64537266
They played it out badly. Freeze's wife should have been cured, and then they become good guys. Maybe even contacts for batman
>>
>>64538443
That sounds pretty stupid, actually.

That version of Freeze should have died in Batman Beyond and stayed dead. He had a perfect, fitting, tragic end to his character there. Pretty much all of his pre-New 52 appearances in the comics were crap. New 52 Freeze is at least entertaining.
>>
>>64538604
What, batman villains progressing? Rather than retcon or stagnation that is. I would love to see these guys retire
>>
>>64536470
option 101: it's a fake joker from earth 2, trying to impersonate the earth 1 joker with earth 2 ideas
>>
>>64538700
The point of Freeze was that he was unhinged at his core after the traumatic event. I doubt even bringing his wife back would've saved him.

Plus "BATMAN VILLAINS BECOMING CONTACTS" should be reserved for villains without said core insanity like Freeze.

Some of them retiring would be cool, honestly. I'd like to see The Riddler eventually go "fuck it I'm done".
>>
>>64538773
He did for a while. He became a detective.
But status quo won out in the end.
Pity, I really enjoyed detective riddler.
>>
>>64532842
>It still happened

They pretty much ignored the part at witch Batman kills the Joker, he is back on his feet the next we see him with no explanation, and it was explained as the Editors not understanding that he was indeed killed.

That reeks of ignoring stuff and just letting the Status-Quo back to square one to me.
>>
>>64538604

>New 52 Freeze is at least entertaining.

Why people say that? Or that New 52 Freeze has more story potential than the previous versions? Remind me again how many stories starring the character we've had since his new origin was shown? Yeah. That's what i thought. He played support role during Night of the Owls, where he is just serves as plot device to explain the Talons and later appeared in that awful story-line in Birds of Prey,

Not to mention that nothing really changed. Before he was a good man that became unhinged trying because he couldn't maintain his project, which gave him hope to eventually cure his wife. The same still applies, but with Bruce Wayne this time being the evil businessman that fucked Freeze over and Freeze was delusional all along because Nora wasn't really his wife. Well, good dumb shit that changed because he was still think of her as his waifu and was still mad about not being able to save her. Seriously, WHAT THIS CHANGED?
>>
Guys, listen to me... DC WON'T RETCON JOKER CUTTING HIS FACE OFF. Death of the Family was a really bigger seller and Scott Snyder already promised that the new biggest story-line of his book with be a huge arc called ENDGAME, his biggest, scariest Joker story yet. He actually said that Death of the Family was all about love. Joker's love for Batman, that is, and that ENDGAME will all about his rage and his desire to end with Batman for good. So it will be a lot more scary and creepy.

So yeah, Scott Snyder has no desire of retconning the Joker cutting his face off. HE IS PROUD OF THAT.
>>
>>64539261
On Futures End, he has his face attached to him again, so at some point in time, he will get it back on.
>>
>>64538877
>They pretty much ignored the part at witch Batman kills the Joker
Because he doesn't and never did. Go read it again. There are plenty of ways to read that scene, but to read it as Batman breaking and killing Joker doesn't seem to go with a lot of other stuff in the story.
>>
>>64539340

So? That's the tail-end of Futures End. It takes place 35 in the future. That doesn't mean that the Joker will restore his face now or next year, specially when Snyder is taking this as far as he can. We just have to deal with it.
>>
>>64539261
>DC WON'T RETCON JOKER CUTTING HIS FACE OFF.
>Scott Snyder has no desire of retconning the Joker cutting his face off.
Scott Snyder and DC are not the same thing. Snyder might not do it but you can bet your ass someone else will.

But then if you mean actual retcon and not the retarded "any change that happens ever" thing that /co/ frequently means by it, then fine. He might just sew it back on or have a clone body or some shit like that.
>>
>>64539142
He also appeared in the Annual and in his Villain's Month issue. Both of which I enjoyed.

>Or that New 52 Freeze has more story potential than the previous versions? Remind me again how many stories starring the character we've had since his new origin was shown?
Yeah, because he appeared sooooooo many times post-Crisis.

http://www.comicvine.com/mr-freeze/4005-3715/issues-cover/

The vendetta against Bruce Wayne adds another layer to the conflict and makes it a bit more personal for Batman. In addition, Nora never being his wife adds a bit of a different dimension as well. Like I said before, they pretty much explored every angle involving Nora being Freeze's dead wife.

>>64539261
Why would he be proud of something he didn't do?

God, what is with all these newfags and non-readers who think that Snyder was the one who cut the Joker's face off?

>>64538877
>They pretty much ignored the part at witch Batman kills the Joker
Grant, I love you, but you gotta lay off of that crack pipe.

>>64539384
>So? That's the tail-end of Futures End. It takes place 35 in the future.
No, he was talking about just the five-year jump.
>>
>>64539408

>He also appeared in the Annual and in his Villain's Month issue. Both of which I enjoyed.

The annual was where the new origin was shown, though. I give you the Villain's Month issue. The thing is that people aren't lining up to use him and when that happened they still used Nora as the character's driving force.

>The vendetta against Bruce Wayne adds another layer to the conflict and makes it a bit more personal for Batman. In addition, Nora never being his wife adds a bit of a different dimension as well. Like I said before, they pretty much explored every angle involving Nora being Freeze's dead wife.

No many layers, man. They took the story of a man that was changed by loss and hopelessness and gave us another sociopath with a waifu complex.
>>
>>64539408

>Why would he be proud of something he didn't do?

>God, what is with all these newfags and non-readers who think that Snyder was the one who cut the Joker's face off?

He supported the idea. We all know that it was Tony S. Daniel's idea. You don't need to play the authority card. Snyder still liked the idea, still think it was awesome and he's pretty proud of Death of the Family and its creepiness.

>No, he was talking about just the five-year jump.

He hasn't appeared in the five-year jump yet. We don't know how Harley's one-shot will play out. Don't jump your gun.
>>
>>64539406

>Scott Snyder and DC are not the same thing. Snyder might not do it but you can bet your ass someone else will.

Sure, you're right. Still, i don't think that it will be any soon. Snyder have his stories to tell with the character.
>>
>>64539532
>The thing is that people aren't lining up to use him and when that happened they still used Nora as the character's driving force.
People were NEVER lining up to use him, though. He didn't appear all that much. As was posted in my link. You seem to have this impression that people were all busting a nut over post-Crisis post-BTAS Freeze. They weren't.

Also
>No many layers, man
What the dick

>implying that the story still isn't about loss and hopelessness
Just because the dude is even more crazy now doesn't make him any less sympathetic or the story any less sad.

>>64539555
>We all know that it was Tony S. Daniel's idea
I've seen people cite it as Snyder's multiple times.

>You don't need to play the authority card. Snyder still liked the idea, still think it was awesome and he's pretty proud of Death of the Family and its creepiness.
He saw potential in it that nobody else saw and then helped realize it. Snyder is a horror writer who's fond of body horror, so it's natural that he'd find that interesting in a macabre way. DOTF was flawed, sure, but it turned a stupid idea into a highly-readable page-turner.

Also, /co/ hates DoTF (for good reason in some cases), but Snyder has a right to be proud of it considering the positive buzz.

>He hasn't appeared in the five-year jump yet. We don't know how Harley's one-shot will play out. Don't jump your gun.
I thought he'd appeared on covers with his face intact.
>>
>>64539706
>doesn't make him any less sympathetic or the story any less sad.
>doesn't make him any less sympathetic
>sympathetic

Are you fucking kidding me. What reason do we, as normal people, have to sympathize with freeze anymore?

Nora isn't his wife anymore. That angle is gone now. The only 'sympathy' angle he can get is if you feel sympathy for someone simply because they are insane.
>>
>>64532542
trying not to vomit
>>
>>64538877
>They pretty much ignored the part at witch Batman kills the Joker

Yes, they ignored your fanfiction.
>>
>Joker got worked on by Dollface

>Dollface made a fake, "faceless" Joker to throw Batman and co. off.

>What Dollface really did was restore Joker to how he looked before falling into the vat of chemicals.

>However, despite his new look, Joker is still crazy, but its a more subtle insanity.

>He also changes his alias, based off his (supposed) real name, and becomes a more calculating, lest chaotic force, kind of like Batman of Zen-Ur-Ah or some shit...

>"Sorry Batman, but the joke has gotten old. Joker no longer trumps deuce."

>"Jack does."
>>
>>64539961
In this version, Freeze purely loves the idea of Nora, not Nora herself. I'd say that's pretty sympathetic, even if the way he goes about it is a bit... unhinged.

Plus, there's still the fact that, in a moment of anger, he caused an accident that ruined any chance he may have still had at a normal life. In addition, there's also the burden of caring for a disabled relative, even if the way Freeze handled was... extreme.

I don't see how Freeze being insane makes him completely unsympathetic. I definitely felt sorry for him a few times.

And you're saying that nothing changed, when you seem to bitch a lot about the changes.
>>
>>64531829

Joker himself taking out the entire Batfam like that is retarded anyway so who gives a fuck?
>>
He clones himself a new face and gets some plastic surgeon to put it back on. In the DC world this is a very believeable solution
>>
>>64532775
That kid is fucking buff
>>
>>64540198

>In this version, Freeze purely loves the idea of Nora, not Nora herself. I'd say that's pretty sympathetic, even if the way he goes about it is a bit... unhinged.

Yes, Nora became his waifu. That's pretty sympathetic if you're into that shit.

>Plus, there's still the fact that, in a moment of anger, he caused an accident that ruined any chance he may have still had at a normal life.

The same as the old one.

>In addition, there's also the burden of caring for a disabled relative, even if the way Freeze handled was... extreme.

That only served to show us how much of a psycho he was.

>And you're saying that nothing changed, when you seem to bitch a lot about the changes.

No, things did change. Is just the bullshit about the character having a lot more potential story-wise that is wrong. That is the one thing that didn't change and people should stop saying dumb shit like that. Specially when the few times he been used they still used Nora as his motivation.
>>
>>64540198
He went full waifu. The reason Batman tries to foil his his plots is because he can't understand that Nora is best girl. Catwoman a shit.
>>
>>64540269
Back then they didn't coddle kids with things like "education" or "proper nutrition;" it was nothing but red meat and harsh physical labor for 14 hours a day.
>>
I'm >>64539961 but not >>64539532 .

I do think things changed, for the worse. Loves the idea, you say. How is that sympathetic? I suppose striving for a goal that is literally impossible, in more ways than one, is kind of sympathetic? Only it's ruined by the fact that he is a crazy man, a completely crazy man, that lusts after a woman he never even met, and killed his own mother.

Being crazy doesn't make you unsympathetic, but being a bad person with a less than tragic backstory does. Not that you need to have a tragic backstory to be sympathetic, but in this case you kind of do.
>>
>>64531169
>How will DC retcon Joker cutting off his face?
We don't know why yet, but we know they will do it since he has his whole fucking face again in Future's End.
>>
>>64540197
I like it. It won't last forever, but it would be interesting for a while
>>
>>64536470
How about Joker hunting down and killing Joker's daugther to get his fucking face back ?
We kill two bords with one stone with that one, we've got one terrible character out of the way and Joker can be good again.
>>
>>64531294
>New 52 version of Hush. Makes the most sense.

I think it would be interesting to see him running around with the bandages on as his inevitable plastic surgery heals. I'm kind of a sucker for when villains adopt a completely identity, like Joker did with Oberon Sexton or Magneto did with Xorn.

I know /co/ would hate it, but if he were to moonlight as Hush for a bit while his face healed, it could be a neat twist since Bruce Timm did about the only salvageable story with Tommy Elliot a few years back.
>>
Two Face is going to start wearing Joker's face and the Joker is going to go the plastic surgery route.
>>
>>64540904

Two Face killed himself, mate.
>>
>>64532775

How are those even mud-pies?
>>
a psychotic, enraged bald Scotsman appears, kills Duela in a fit of rage while screaming that she "DON'T UNNERSTAND THE FECKEN SYMBOLISM YE DAFT CUNT", and cuts her face off.

he then gives it back to the Joker, who takes this all in stride.
>>
Probably just magic
>>
>>64531169
>death of the family plays out till the cave scene as normal
>at this point Barbara was 100% ready to kill joker
>jason kills him, estranged by batman
>barbara upset she doesn't get closure
>joker was correct, he can "never die"
>poser jokers start popping up
>not people imitating joker, people imitating the various incarnations of the joker throughout comic history
>this allows multiple jokers, multiple characterizations, and growth for 2 "minor" batfams, since the only major bat is HOW DO WE GET BATMAN IN THIS
problem solved, we get mark hamill issues, 2edgy cut face issues, hell even batman 66 issues can be canon jokers now
>>
>>64531169
illude to a plot about cloning and never expand upon it
>>
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>>64541043
>>64541013
Would the Lazarus pit heal his face back?
>>
>>64532425
No silly, injecting blood just makes you the Green Goblin.
>>
Just graft some molded, barely-fictional biosynthetics on his muscles and call it a "face." I mean it's not like he ever had a particularly natural look to begin with.
>>
>>64532710
What would you say is top 5 worst, I'll read them all tonight and report back
>>
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>>64531169
What? They can just glue it back on this isn't an issue at all
>>
>>64541988
By comic book logic that would work, except this dipshit ate it
>>
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>>64541988

Forgot pic
>>
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>>64532542

DC legitimately has no fucking idea what they're doing.

Jesus christ.
>>
>>64531169
Hang on, where the fuck does Joker's nose go in that skinslab? It just has holes for his mouth and eyes. This doesn't make any sense.
>>
It turns out to be a big joke .He has a mask over a mask
>>
>>64532542
It's beyond ridiculous the amount of shit this face has been put through and it's still in one piece.

That shit was already stretched taught over jokester's face and cut up, now it's been hanging out in the sewer, eaten, chewed on by rats. Not to mention the rotting.
>>
>>64532018

>retards on /co/ can't fix it, he's doomed forever!

Pull the stick out of your ass for a little bit and think about it rationally for half a second. This is nothing compared to the shit they've retconned before. The reason /co/ can't do it is because they're making too big of a deal about it and trying to make entire conspiracy theories. The problem with those retarded ideas is that a real retcon isn't necessary. He can get his face back without totally ignoring or canceling out DotF. That's how you make it elegant. You finish the story, tie up the loose ends neatly, and move on.

Also, you seem to think that DC and readers in general are in a big hurry to pretend that all of this never happened. I can assure that that's not even remotely close to being the case.
>>
>>64542214
COMICS
>>
>>64542077
Well, she ate it... and then got it sewed on her face.
>>
>>64532933
Is he a ninja turtle?
>>
Nanomachines.
>>
He'll disappear for a good while again, and at the same time a new identity-theft based villain will emerge (who literally steals and wears faces, in addition to god-tier acting). The connection will be obvious, and readers will be lead to believe this new villain is The Joker (and possibly even having batfam operating on this assumption for some time, opportunity for some good psychobabble), but then it will turn out he actually is an entirely different character who had been the faceless Joker all along (a very long term identity theft). Actual Joker whereabouts unknown and eventually he'll just show up and the whole thing will be forgotten. Maybe the identity-thief villain will be Hush or something retarded like that.
>>
>>64533550

Wait, so if I can't blame Quesadilla for the "Spider-man sells his marriage to the devil" fiasco, who can I blame?
>>
>>64532775
He stole 40 mud pies.
And that's just terrible.
>>
>>64533020
But they're so disproportionate to his neck it looks like he's wearing a turtle shell.
>>
>>64542792
oh, and i just realized they could set this up as having all been a consequence of Joker himself deciding shit was getting too stupid and deciding to retire. He used a bit of his vast fortune to finally have his bleached skin and fucked up face repaired, and retired to a beach as just another anonymous billionaire. with all this intense grimdark shit as his final parting joke - not even any grand design, but rather just him kicking over the table on which the house of cards rested. there could be a great line, between Batman and 'Jack' (retired, normal-looking Joker), where Jack says something to the effect of "this new generation, they're just too fucking nuts!". going back to the old idea that Joker isn't insane at all.
>>
>>64531169
probably something stupid.

he'll make a clone of himself, age it 15 years younger than his current age, throw it into the acid that bleached his skin white, kill it, remove it's face and surgically attach it to his.
>>
Clone his consciousness into a new body
Worked for Red Skull
>>
>>64531169
Litterally, no one gives a fuck about the joke or the loser bitch that is the new harley.

No one.
>>
>>64531169

Professor Pyg, motherfuckers.
>>
>>64542214
The original skin included his nose skin being cut off, it just got flattened without the facial cartilage support.
>>
>>64531169
>>64531269
>>64531829

jokerchip.
>>
Joker-swap with Earth-1
>>
batman need to kill
>>
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>>64532302
>it wasn't enough
>it was too much
>>
Reveal that Joker actually IS a metahuman.

It would explain how he heals from all the shit he's been through.
>>
>>64533068
What would the new 52 even do to him, If he had his own arc what do you think dc would turn him into i would be very interested to see he has so much potential.
>>
So, is Snyder's Batman worth reading or not?
>>
Doombot.

...
...
...

...what?
>>
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Just have faceless Joker die a horrific death, then while everyone's looking down at the body for their poignant moment have classic Joker pop up behind them and say, "Geez! What happened to that guy?"
>>
>>64544080
Yes it is
>>
>>64535428
That...actually isn't too bad. Gotham is cursed anyway, isn't it? It makes a bit of sense. The original Joker is the one who fell into the vat of acid, and it just kept going from there.
>>
>>64532278

They should honestly make him get some weird resurrection man style immortality/healing factor that renders him effectively immortal - it'd solve the face problem AND the "why doesn't batman kill him?" problem in one swoop
>>
>>64544481
>why doesn't batman kill him?" problem
He'd still have the problem because Batman has 40 other deranged psychopaths that kill just as much as Joker.
>>
>>64535578

Done correctly he could be terrifying!

But it's New 52 DC, so they'll fuck it up.

>>INSTEAD OF AN ERASER HEAD LET'S GIVE HIM LOTS OF GUNS!
>>
I really think making the Joker more than a single individual would work. No one cares about the Joker's civilian past. Make the Joker an insanity itself tied to his toxin or even just an identity that someone insane enough by themselves take one after the other, after the previous one dies.

It's the one succession that could easily stick around going forward.
>>
>>64536958
10/10
>>
>>64536470
>Time travel shenanigans

Isn't that what Marvel did to Spiderman? I may be wrong
>this year lost its joker so I came here
>>
>>64544611

>they're all also joker

Seriously, we've solved all the problems in... actually no, we can solve all the problems with the resurrection pit can't we?

>batman has killed the joker in the past
>his crazy disciples have just rezzed him ever time
>batman is fed up of having to deal with ever crazier versions

Same effect, different source.
>>
>>64533068
Morrison brought him back in R.I.P.
>>
Am I the only one who doesn't really have much of an issue with the face thing as its own concept? Like I could see it being an interesting concept if done in a different way.
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