That the Joker is an extradimensional entity that posseses beings and allows him to do what he does, like not needing sleep, eating, that he can enact plans and do them accordinglt, that allows him to equate the batman in terms of fighting skills and such.
The current host dies, and he jumps to another host.
>>64531553 Uh, some impostor tried to take his place and the Joker got really offended and cut off his face and then killed him? It might be good since then the daughter can get some identity crisis going.
The Flash merges the universe with another universe where the Joker's face is fine, slaughtering trillions in the process. DC calls it JokerPoint, and relaunches all of it's titles. Superman is now in love with Jimmy Olsen...
As I ranted about a few days ago one possibility is a Clayface (heh) transplant. Also an easy way to have it so he's now affected by the proceedure like Harley was from Joker and Ivy's experiments on her. Gives him a healing factor.
Now he's proper bullshit and how he takes a beating from Batman and bounces back is explained away. The use of Clayface to disguise or impersonate people as well as the connection between him and Joker has happened before.
>>64532508 >Can we not aspire to stronger conception and execution in our dumb genre fiction? No, because nerds take offense at the idea that comics should be held to the same standards as books or movies.
What's sad is that here we are in the liberated year of 2014, with no comics code and comics more respected as a medium, and you can pick any Joker story from the fucking fifties and it's better written and conceived than the junk we get now.
Fuck, you can go back to the fucking nineties and shit's still better than this.
>>64532710 That book didn't have a chorus of men sown together, covered in pictures from old Joker comics, or entire graveyards of corpses impaled on spikes.
Seriously, I'd take Lovers & Madmen over that shit, even with it's ridiculous origin for the Joker's smile.
Fuck, I'd even take Hush Returns over DOTF, and that arc consisted of the Killing Joke's origin being made canon(and worse) and the Joker running naked to an amusement park after getting beat up by c-list villains.
The ninties is viewed as shit by some people and a lot of creatives view the CCA as a restrictive device that hampered creativity, which it was. However, now that they're finally free of it, instead of the books getting better, they've actually gotten worse.
We've got writers free to do whatever they want and they produce dreck like DOTF.
>>64532634 Off the top of my head, major stories specifically focused on The Joker from the past decade: >Salvation Run >The Clown at Midnight >The Dark Knight >Joker (Azzarello and Bermejo) >Batman and Robin >Arkham Asylum >Arkham City >Emperor Joker (BatB) >The Knights of Tomorrow(BatB) >Death of the Family >Injustice: Gods Among Us
Of these, I would argue only Salvation Run and Injustice are on the same general level of bad as DotF. And even so, neither of those stories are so specifically Joker-focused.
>It was a clone the whole time. Maybe Cadmus, maybe from another source, doesn't matter, it was a clone and this shit is usually explained away in two-three pages at the most. Joker simply allowed it to exist knowing that it would fuck with Batman's head when the real article showed up
>Joker fell down into the dark abyss and fell into some radioactive shit that mutated him. He now has an overpowered healing factor that causes his face to regenerate, and is now virtually impossible to kill, to the point that Batman need's to constantly "Kill" him just to knock him out long enough for the police to arrive, which causes Bruce's mind to slowly fall down a darker path as, while he's never actually killing The Joker, he constantly has to simulate the act just to put him down, which makes Bruce subconsciously more and more accustomed to taking a life.
>>64532357 Joker is a curse on Gotham, every time a joker dies a new one is born. which is why batman doesn't just kill the joker... 1) He is an innocent who has been warped by the curse. 2) If the joker dies batman has to learn all the new jokers subtle differences. 3) If a joker dies the next one could be significantly more evil than the next.
It's happened before were Joker survived death by having a double fill-in for him. So the same can be applied with Death of the Family Joker. The theory I have is that the Joker, after finding out that Bruce Wayne started Batman Inc., decided to start his own Joker Inc. He would gather random people up, drive them insane, and then unleash them on Gotham. DotF Joker was his first graduate from Joker Inc.
Option 1: Bullshit cyborg mask that looks just like real flesh. Proceed to never ever bring up cutting the face off again.
Option 2: Time travel shenanigans = new face just like the old one.
Option 3: He douses someone with Joker gas, makes them believe they are the Joker, then cuts the face off and surgically attaches it to his non-face.
4. You fell for the old fake Joker gag.
5. You fell for the old fake Joker's face gag. His real face has been fine all along!
6. Fuck it, it grew back. Don't ask questions.
7. Magic, ain't gotta explain shit.
8. Cut-face-off Joker disappears and is never heard from again. New pristine faced Joker who is clearly not the same guy steps in and acts like he's totally the old Joker with a face perfectly intact.
9. Medical miracle.
10. Keep the face off and run with it until the reboot in 5 years. Maybe don't use the continuity-fucked clown in every story and only bring him up when you have a genuinely cool idea for a guy who cut off his face. Find a new friend for Batman to play with.
10 options and only like 9 of them suck. Go on /co/, find your own terrible, terrible fixes. Bonus points to whoever correctly guesses the rout DC will go.
>>64536470 >6. Fuck it, it grew back. Don't ask questions.
You know, at this point it would kind of make sense to just make the Joker canonically immortal. He's functionally immortal for narrative purposes, and he's casually tossed through so much intensive physical abuse so regularly it might actually make the most sense at this point.
Of course, then we have to deal with the problem of why Batman doesn't just launch him into space...
You missed one, clayface gets a blowjob from joker and then cums all over his awful cut face and the clay regenerates the tissue with a clay mask that now makes the joker a chameleon of sorts, cum clay mask ftw
Superman comes along out of nowhere, mashes Joker's head in with a gentle touch and throws his dead carcass to the sun. No Joker wannabes or reboots appear because of the humiliating death the Joker suffered.
Seriously, Joker was fine but he's just a boring, obsolete, repetitive, pretentious edgefest caricature.
>>64536950 >I'm willing to argue Batman has the best villains but we don't hardly see any of them but Joker and the writing keeps getting worse and worse for him. You don't read DC much, do you? The Joker doesn't get ENOUGH screentime. Scarecrow has had at least three arcs, Penguin has had two, and the first ten issues of Eternal were based around him. Clayface has been featured in every Bat book so far, and even the Mad Hatter has had more appearances than the Joker.
The problem with the Joker is that they only save him for when they want to do something big. They put him on a pedestal and only use him once every two years on average, and they don't let anyone use him without permission. The Joker is best when he's just doing random crimes, not when he's coming up with these "epic" schemes to destroy the Bat family or whatever.
>>64531169 They won't because hey, the Joker's already coming back with a fresh face. During Forever Evil it was mentioned that Joker was walking around with a new face, but we weren't sure where or who he was. Well apparently in Future's End the Joker pops in with a fresh, firmly attached face. No loose hanging skin, or it being stapled on. Not even rotting.
That version of Freeze should have died in Batman Beyond and stayed dead. He had a perfect, fitting, tragic end to his character there. Pretty much all of his pre-New 52 appearances in the comics were crap. New 52 Freeze is at least entertaining.
They pretty much ignored the part at witch Batman kills the Joker, he is back on his feet the next we see him with no explanation, and it was explained as the Editors not understanding that he was indeed killed.
That reeks of ignoring stuff and just letting the Status-Quo back to square one to me.
Why people say that? Or that New 52 Freeze has more story potential than the previous versions? Remind me again how many stories starring the character we've had since his new origin was shown? Yeah. That's what i thought. He played support role during Night of the Owls, where he is just serves as plot device to explain the Talons and later appeared in that awful story-line in Birds of Prey,
Not to mention that nothing really changed. Before he was a good man that became unhinged trying because he couldn't maintain his project, which gave him hope to eventually cure his wife. The same still applies, but with Bruce Wayne this time being the evil businessman that fucked Freeze over and Freeze was delusional all along because Nora wasn't really his wife. Well, good dumb shit that changed because he was still think of her as his waifu and was still mad about not being able to save her. Seriously, WHAT THIS CHANGED?
Guys, listen to me... DC WON'T RETCON JOKER CUTTING HIS FACE OFF. Death of the Family was a really bigger seller and Scott Snyder already promised that the new biggest story-line of his book with be a huge arc called ENDGAME, his biggest, scariest Joker story yet. He actually said that Death of the Family was all about love. Joker's love for Batman, that is, and that ENDGAME will all about his rage and his desire to end with Batman for good. So it will be a lot more scary and creepy.
So yeah, Scott Snyder has no desire of retconning the Joker cutting his face off. HE IS PROUD OF THAT.
>>64538877 >They pretty much ignored the part at witch Batman kills the Joker Because he doesn't and never did. Go read it again. There are plenty of ways to read that scene, but to read it as Batman breaking and killing Joker doesn't seem to go with a lot of other stuff in the story.
So? That's the tail-end of Futures End. It takes place 35 in the future. That doesn't mean that the Joker will restore his face now or next year, specially when Snyder is taking this as far as he can. We just have to deal with it.
>>64539261 >DC WON'T RETCON JOKER CUTTING HIS FACE OFF. >Scott Snyder has no desire of retconning the Joker cutting his face off. Scott Snyder and DC are not the same thing. Snyder might not do it but you can bet your ass someone else will.
But then if you mean actual retcon and not the retarded "any change that happens ever" thing that /co/ frequently means by it, then fine. He might just sew it back on or have a clone body or some shit like that.
>>64539142 He also appeared in the Annual and in his Villain's Month issue. Both of which I enjoyed.
>Or that New 52 Freeze has more story potential than the previous versions? Remind me again how many stories starring the character we've had since his new origin was shown? Yeah, because he appeared sooooooo many times post-Crisis.
The vendetta against Bruce Wayne adds another layer to the conflict and makes it a bit more personal for Batman. In addition, Nora never being his wife adds a bit of a different dimension as well. Like I said before, they pretty much explored every angle involving Nora being Freeze's dead wife.
>>64539261 Why would he be proud of something he didn't do?
God, what is with all these newfags and non-readers who think that Snyder was the one who cut the Joker's face off?
>>64538877 >They pretty much ignored the part at witch Batman kills the Joker Grant, I love you, but you gotta lay off of that crack pipe.
>>64539384 >So? That's the tail-end of Futures End. It takes place 35 in the future. No, he was talking about just the five-year jump.
>He also appeared in the Annual and in his Villain's Month issue. Both of which I enjoyed.
The annual was where the new origin was shown, though. I give you the Villain's Month issue. The thing is that people aren't lining up to use him and when that happened they still used Nora as the character's driving force.
>The vendetta against Bruce Wayne adds another layer to the conflict and makes it a bit more personal for Batman. In addition, Nora never being his wife adds a bit of a different dimension as well. Like I said before, they pretty much explored every angle involving Nora being Freeze's dead wife.
No many layers, man. They took the story of a man that was changed by loss and hopelessness and gave us another sociopath with a waifu complex.
>God, what is with all these newfags and non-readers who think that Snyder was the one who cut the Joker's face off?
He supported the idea. We all know that it was Tony S. Daniel's idea. You don't need to play the authority card. Snyder still liked the idea, still think it was awesome and he's pretty proud of Death of the Family and its creepiness.
>No, he was talking about just the five-year jump.
He hasn't appeared in the five-year jump yet. We don't know how Harley's one-shot will play out. Don't jump your gun.
>>64539532 >The thing is that people aren't lining up to use him and when that happened they still used Nora as the character's driving force. People were NEVER lining up to use him, though. He didn't appear all that much. As was posted in my link. You seem to have this impression that people were all busting a nut over post-Crisis post-BTAS Freeze. They weren't.
Also >No many layers, man What the dick
>implying that the story still isn't about loss and hopelessness Just because the dude is even more crazy now doesn't make him any less sympathetic or the story any less sad.
>>64539555 >We all know that it was Tony S. Daniel's idea I've seen people cite it as Snyder's multiple times.
>You don't need to play the authority card. Snyder still liked the idea, still think it was awesome and he's pretty proud of Death of the Family and its creepiness. He saw potential in it that nobody else saw and then helped realize it. Snyder is a horror writer who's fond of body horror, so it's natural that he'd find that interesting in a macabre way. DOTF was flawed, sure, but it turned a stupid idea into a highly-readable page-turner.
Also, /co/ hates DoTF (for good reason in some cases), but Snyder has a right to be proud of it considering the positive buzz.
>He hasn't appeared in the five-year jump yet. We don't know how Harley's one-shot will play out. Don't jump your gun. I thought he'd appeared on covers with his face intact.
>>64539961 In this version, Freeze purely loves the idea of Nora, not Nora herself. I'd say that's pretty sympathetic, even if the way he goes about it is a bit... unhinged.
Plus, there's still the fact that, in a moment of anger, he caused an accident that ruined any chance he may have still had at a normal life. In addition, there's also the burden of caring for a disabled relative, even if the way Freeze handled was... extreme.
I don't see how Freeze being insane makes him completely unsympathetic. I definitely felt sorry for him a few times.
And you're saying that nothing changed, when you seem to bitch a lot about the changes.
>In this version, Freeze purely loves the idea of Nora, not Nora herself. I'd say that's pretty sympathetic, even if the way he goes about it is a bit... unhinged.
Yes, Nora became his waifu. That's pretty sympathetic if you're into that shit.
>Plus, there's still the fact that, in a moment of anger, he caused an accident that ruined any chance he may have still had at a normal life.
The same as the old one.
>In addition, there's also the burden of caring for a disabled relative, even if the way Freeze handled was... extreme.
That only served to show us how much of a psycho he was.
>And you're saying that nothing changed, when you seem to bitch a lot about the changes.
No, things did change. Is just the bullshit about the character having a lot more potential story-wise that is wrong. That is the one thing that didn't change and people should stop saying dumb shit like that. Specially when the few times he been used they still used Nora as his motivation.
I do think things changed, for the worse. Loves the idea, you say. How is that sympathetic? I suppose striving for a goal that is literally impossible, in more ways than one, is kind of sympathetic? Only it's ruined by the fact that he is a crazy man, a completely crazy man, that lusts after a woman he never even met, and killed his own mother.
Being crazy doesn't make you unsympathetic, but being a bad person with a less than tragic backstory does. Not that you need to have a tragic backstory to be sympathetic, but in this case you kind of do.
>>64536470 How about Joker hunting down and killing Joker's daugther to get his fucking face back ? We kill two bords with one stone with that one, we've got one terrible character out of the way and Joker can be good again.
>>64531294 >New 52 version of Hush. Makes the most sense.
I think it would be interesting to see him running around with the bandages on as his inevitable plastic surgery heals. I'm kind of a sucker for when villains adopt a completely identity, like Joker did with Oberon Sexton or Magneto did with Xorn.
I know /co/ would hate it, but if he were to moonlight as Hush for a bit while his face healed, it could be a neat twist since Bruce Timm did about the only salvageable story with Tommy Elliot a few years back.
>>64531169 >death of the family plays out till the cave scene as normal >at this point Barbara was 100% ready to kill joker >jason kills him, estranged by batman >barbara upset she doesn't get closure >joker was correct, he can "never die" >poser jokers start popping up >not people imitating joker, people imitating the various incarnations of the joker throughout comic history >this allows multiple jokers, multiple characterizations, and growth for 2 "minor" batfams, since the only major bat is HOW DO WE GET BATMAN IN THIS problem solved, we get mark hamill issues, 2edgy cut face issues, hell even batman 66 issues can be canon jokers now
>retards on /co/ can't fix it, he's doomed forever!
Pull the stick out of your ass for a little bit and think about it rationally for half a second. This is nothing compared to the shit they've retconned before. The reason /co/ can't do it is because they're making too big of a deal about it and trying to make entire conspiracy theories. The problem with those retarded ideas is that a real retcon isn't necessary. He can get his face back without totally ignoring or canceling out DotF. That's how you make it elegant. You finish the story, tie up the loose ends neatly, and move on.
Also, you seem to think that DC and readers in general are in a big hurry to pretend that all of this never happened. I can assure that that's not even remotely close to being the case.
He'll disappear for a good while again, and at the same time a new identity-theft based villain will emerge (who literally steals and wears faces, in addition to god-tier acting). The connection will be obvious, and readers will be lead to believe this new villain is The Joker (and possibly even having batfam operating on this assumption for some time, opportunity for some good psychobabble), but then it will turn out he actually is an entirely different character who had been the faceless Joker all along (a very long term identity theft). Actual Joker whereabouts unknown and eventually he'll just show up and the whole thing will be forgotten. Maybe the identity-thief villain will be Hush or something retarded like that.
>>64542792 oh, and i just realized they could set this up as having all been a consequence of Joker himself deciding shit was getting too stupid and deciding to retire. He used a bit of his vast fortune to finally have his bleached skin and fucked up face repaired, and retired to a beach as just another anonymous billionaire. with all this intense grimdark shit as his final parting joke - not even any grand design, but rather just him kicking over the table on which the house of cards rested. there could be a great line, between Batman and 'Jack' (retired, normal-looking Joker), where Jack says something to the effect of "this new generation, they're just too fucking nuts!". going back to the old idea that Joker isn't insane at all.
Just have faceless Joker die a horrific death, then while everyone's looking down at the body for their poignant moment have classic Joker pop up behind them and say, "Geez! What happened to that guy?"
They should honestly make him get some weird resurrection man style immortality/healing factor that renders him effectively immortal - it'd solve the face problem AND the "why doesn't batman kill him?" problem in one swoop
I really think making the Joker more than a single individual would work. No one cares about the Joker's civilian past. Make the Joker an insanity itself tied to his toxin or even just an identity that someone insane enough by themselves take one after the other, after the previous one dies.
It's the one succession that could easily stick around going forward.
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