>"A young man asked an old rich man how he made his money. The old guy fingered his worsted wool vest and said, "Well, son, it was 1932. The depth of the Great Depression. I was down to my last nickel. I invested that nickel in an apple. I spent the entire day polishing the apple and, at the end of the day, I sold the apple for ten cents. The next morning, I invested those ten cents in two apples. I spent the entire day polishing them and sold them at 5 pm for 20 cents. I continued this system for a month, by the end of which I'd accumulated a fortune of $1.37. Then my wife's father died and left us two million dollars."
>>523865 If you want to be rich just make lost of money, marry rich or win the lottery.
If you want to be wealthy learn how to invest,work hard, be practical and frugal with your money and stick with the proven methods of wealth building: Small business, real estate and stocks and other securities.
Small business have the biggest potential for exponential growth, but usually carry lots of risk
Real estate: spite if fluctuation on the market value real estate tends to appreciate on the long term if you hold real estate for 20 years or longer you will seldom lose money, atleast that you purchased an over priced money pit
Stocks: this is the best way to invest with little capital, now a days anybody can put their money to work through mutual funds if you can handle volatility and will hang on to your holdings for the long haul you can expect to grow your money at an average of 6-10%/ year ( but some years you might lose value )
Bonds: are good diversification tools, they usually only keep up with inflation but they are good to have during bad markets and high inflation periods
Money markets and high interest saving accounts: this are good places to keep money that you will need at short term like your emergency fund or cash that you are saving for a mayor purchase
Avoid hedge funds, derivatives and speculative currencies
>>523906 >real estate How? Flipping or what? How is it not a gamble most of the time if you just want to buy low and sell high?
>stocks Index funds or you need to be a genius for this to work.
>Other securities Like what?
>Real estate: spite if fluctuation on the market value real estate tends to appreciate on the long term if you hold real estate for 20 years or longer you will seldom lose mone Where did you get this data from? Why is it guaranteed to raise in 20 years?
>>523908 >rich people will never tell you how to get rich because they dont want to share their money with anyone else Not true. Warren Buffett will tell you, but you will be too stupid to do it anyway.
Same goes for other successful individuals.
Angry birds makers will tell you, go make a popular app! How does that help you?
You already know how to get rich, you are just procrastinating with it. That's why you want to just read and not work. Reading is for lazy people. Go do something. If patience, hard work and some luck you might just make it.
You don't need to be told how to get rich. Teach yourself how to get rich with the resources given to you, like every successful person out there. Google is your best friend, bud. I'm 22 years old and making well over 500k a year; self-taught.
>>523916 >real estate >How? Flipping or what? How is it not a gamble most of the time if you just want to buy low and sell high?
There are several ways to make money with real estate, buying holding selling is one, rental property business, commercial real estate, developing land , flipping etc. it really depends in your skill set
>stocks Index funds or you need to be a genius for this to work.
You need to build a diversified portfolio of stocks : index funds ,domestic "growth stocks ( small and micro cap companies) REIT's ,global mutual funds ( invest in over seas markets) and so on you change the configuration of your portfolio over time and to fit your financial goals and needs
>Other securities Like what?
t-bills,money markets, convertible bonds,striped bonds, inflation adjusted government bonds and some times options ( spite that you should avoid derivatives options sometimes can pay enough to offset the risk)
>Real estate: spite if fluctuation on the market value real estate tends to appreciate on the long term if you hold real estate for 20 years or longer you will seldom lose mone Where did you get this data from? Why is it guaranteed to raise in 20 years?
It isn't a guarantee but according MBA Eric Tyson and Dr.tony Martin in their book investing for Canadian for dummies they have review the over all pricing of real estate in North America and Europe and found that historically all real estate have appreciated in value way over inflation after a period of 20 years, the same is true for the over all stick market spite all the crashes, recessions and depressions
>>523916 Last question look at any areas home prices over any 20 year period and adjust for inflation.
Flipping is one option. You can just middle man deals. You can lend money to others who fix and flip houses. You can buy to then rent them out. You could get into the commercial end of things , say...buy a worn out factory , throw some money into repairs and make it a "factory outlet strip mall" and then collect rent
>>523865 All of them are viable choices OP or like I do, I invest in all of them.
I think most people's goals is to be financially independent. For me it's earning 4,000€ a month after taxes from dividends only. When I have that I can retire if I want to. For me it means that I will need around 1.5 mil in stocks.
I now invest in Real Estate because of leverage. I can make 20% yield of my initial investment in the first years and then every year it goes down until about 7-8 year, which is when I sell it and divide the profits into down payment to 2-3 apartments. I'll do this until I have 500-600k and then I will invest half into stocks and continue with the apartments. If all goes like it should. I'm going to be financially independent in 10-15 years. If I want to get extra bang for my buck, I'll just move to another cheaper country like Portugal or somewhere.
My start up again is a totally different deal. Anything extra it makes me that doesn't go back into investing in the business is just extra dough going into investing into my financial independence. If it goes well it'll shorten the time until I have financial independence, if it doesn't then I'll just continue with my plan.
I don't mind telling people WHAT I do. I just won't answer specific questions such as, "omg how do I do it, teach me, how do you know what to do?" because all that shit is out there on the internet if you put in the time to learn. I'm a "full-time" daytrader. If there's one thing I can tell you guys, it's that no one has gotten their money easy. Anyone with a decent amount of money, living a decent lifestyle, has worked for it (unless born into it like some pompous faggot). You can't sit around and expect to be spoon-fed all the info for a get-rich-quick scheme. It doesn't work that way. You want something? You go and get it. Unless you wanna be stuck in that brainless, paycheck-to-paycheck lifestyle that 99% of the world is living.
The most realistic way is to properly plan and invest in rental properties. Save up enough cash to buy a 2-4 unit property flat out, save more money and repeat this process, eventually moving on to large properties that you can take a mortgage out on and still make money off of.
>>524040 How long have you been doing it? How much did you start with? What made you decide that's something you're going to do? how much knowledge did you already have before you began researching how to do it?
Been doing it three years, started when I was 19 years old with just 5k. As for what made me want to do it; I hated school. This isn't to say I was dumb or anything, I graduated high school with a 97 average; I just hated every second of it. I went to college and dropped out after first year, I just knew it wasn't for me and that I couldn't do it for 4 years. I also knew I didn't want an average lifestyle after college (paying off student debt, middle class income, etc). I wanted a better lifestyle for myself. I just knew of several success stories that came from real estate, stock market, etc. Successful people always seem to think outside the box, they don't just get a degree like everyone else and hope it works out for the best. I had very little capital so I knew I couldn't get into real estate, so I chose stocks. I knew absolutely nothing about the market before looking into it, I just felt it was worth researching. Spent about 2 months or so of just strict research, countless hours spent learning how the market works, the best brokers, best platforms, chart patterns, etc. Then I spent a 1.5 months paper trading (trading on the live market with virtual money) and by then, I was making consistent profits and then I started trading with real money. There are also some "guru" services that I paid for online.
>>524048 how long was it before you started seeing profit? I'm new to all this and i was thinking of having a go at it. This may be spoon feeding but are there any particular websites you'd suggest i look at?
Like I said, I was paper trading long enough to be profiting consistently, my first week I was up about 1.5k. It's only exponential growth from there, if you know what you're doing your account grows ridiculously fast. As for websites; investopedia, tradetheticker.blogspot.ca, goodetrades, there are also some investor forums with great tutorials, I just cant remember them off the top of my head. As for gurus, check out Timothy Sykes and InvestorsLive. I've seen quite a few success stories from them.
>>524054 I absolutely fucking love it man. No obligations, no commitments, no boss. You can skip as many days as you're comfortable with, you can take a laptop on vacation and make thousands while drinking margaritas on the beach, it's glorious. Also, if you're Canadian, you only get taxed on 50% of your profits.
>>524040 >daytrader Questions: 1) How do you compete with robots? 2) How do you manage to profit from day trade with all the fees? 3) What methods of Technical and Fundamental analysis do you use? 4) Do you trade blue chip stocks only or penny stocks?
1. I don't know why so many people think competing with huge wall street firms is so hard/impossible. They're in trades for the same reason you are, price action. Play along with the chart patterns that they create and you come out on top, simple.
2. If you trade well, the fees are negligible. I only pay like $0.002 per share I trade, with clearing/transaction fees of like... 0.00002 * commission. Also, if you trade right, you can get rebates from some routes and they pretty much cancel out 90% of your commission fees.
3. All I do is watch Level 2 Quotes, Volume, Previous Days Close, Resistance/Support (These are dynamic), and I create my own trendlines based on what the stock is doing. I rarely ever check news, I mostly just trade chart patterns.
4. I mostly trade micro-cap to small-cap stocks. It's where all the money is; easy chart patterns, much more volatility. Sometimes I trade blue-chips, but for the most part I never trade anything that costs more than 100/share. MOST of what I trade is under 35 a share.
>>524074 >2. If you trade well, the fees are negligible. I only pay like $0.002 per share I trade, with clearing/transaction fees of like... 0.00002 * commission.
Which broker do you use?
>3. All I do is watch Level 2 Quotes, Volume, Previous Days Close, Resistance/Support (These are dynamic), and I create my own trendlines based on what the stock is doing. I rarely ever check news, I mostly just trade chart patterns. Which EMA's, Fibonnaci sequences, MACD, and so on?
>4. I mostly trade micro-cap to small-cap stocks. It's where all the money is; easy chart patterns, much more volatility. Sometimes I trade blue-chips, but for the most part I never trade anything that costs more than 100/share. MOST of what I trade is under 35 a share. Any stocks or particular field/industry? Can you give some examples?
Interactive Brokers mostly. Centerpoint for shorts. All those technicals are absolute bullshit IMO. Pointless clutter, doesn't help me. No particular stocks, I just use filters and scans to figure out what's volatile enough to be worth trading. Obviously I also trade hot sectors, such as the recent ebola hype. Made a killing off of that.
I always set mental stop losses for myself. Usually using previous support breaks or previous lows of the day/previous closing price. As for profits, I set a target for myself and, unless I'm seeing some AMAZING parabolic price action, I get out as soon as I get to that target. I don't get greedy; that's the easiest way to lose your unrealized profits.
>>523865 from inheritance. else, you're going to have shitty time getting rich by studying your ass off and working yourself to the grave and the only one who would benefit fro it are your piece of shit grateless sons who won't know what hard work is because they inherit everything from you anyway.
Market "crashes" are rare enough that this is a horrible strategy. Recessions aren't generally deep enough to create a massive margin on this principle alone. Even worse, some sectors withstand dips and don't rise with the tide all that much and you never know which industry that will be.
For most people, treat the market like a 401k, not a method to quick riches.
You know the people saying that timing the market doesn't work? They're wrong.
Not everybody starved during the Great Depression, and not everybody lost money in the recent crash. Only a sucker places a long term bet whenever they know a crash is coming. Insulate your money for now and buy later.
>>523865 most of the multi-millionaires I know were born into wealth, and their 'start ups' were basically given 7 or 8 figure cash injections from mommy and daddy. how successful these actually are I'm not sure, but these people sure love boasting how their 'hard work' and 'dedication' got them there...
the others basically got good jobs, got plenty of experience in their industry and progressed from there to establishing their own firms. the thing with these was they had the cash to make mistakes early on.
Even if you get "hot" and someone pours $2-$5M in VC seed/series A into your startup, you'll probably be making the $150k - $200k as a founder, tops. And that's just for a few years.
Good money? You bet. "Really rich?" No. And then one of three things happens:
1. You get Series B or some lifeline capital. This buys you another year or so of a good, comfortable life, but not really rich.
2. Someone buys your company, the VC is happy and you keep 10%-20%. In a perfect world, a $2M investment should sell for $10M-$15M minimum, leaving you with $1-$3M. This probably qualifies as "really rich." It's not a lifetime of luxury, but it's a good setup. Not to mention you can walk into any VC with a success story and get some money easily. This is maybe 5% of VC funded companies.
3. It flounders out and dies. This is probably 80%-85%.
If you have a business that is profitable without VC, that may sound good, but it's not. VCs really don't care all that much about this unless you're on the precipice of explosive growth, and that's hard to do bootstrapped.
A University of Kansas student asked Buffett about this in 2005: > According to a business week report published in 1999, you were quoted as saying: “It's a huge structural advantage not to have a lot of money. I think I could make you 50% a year on $1 million. No, I know I could. I guarantee that.”…would you say the same thing today?
Buffett’s answer: > Yes, I would still say the same thing today. In fact, we are still earning those types of returns on some of our smaller investments. The best decade was the 1950s; I was earning 50% plus returns with small amounts of capital. I could do the same thing today with smaller amounts. It would perhaps even be easier to make that much money in today's environment because information is easier to access.
I guess I'll see how their companies pan out in the next few years then. One is probably going to make it alone now they've partnered up with one of the big four in Aus.
The others have parents with deep enough pockets they could run them at big losses year in year out, just to give the illusion their son 'made it on their own'.
Come to think of it I wouldn't be surprised if they were fronts for some big international drug syndicate. End of the day its kick in the face to see them boast of their success when they've achieved nothing on their own.
>>523908 This is not really true. The problem is that there is no formula for getting rich, otherwise most people would be rich.
Most people who are extremely wealthy of course have high intelligence and really, really high motivation, but I'd argue that all of them got there thanks to a lot of luck as well. There are plenty of people as smart and educated at investing as Warren Buffet, but not many who have gotten as lucky in their bets.
IMO it all comes down to motivation and drive, and how bad you truly fucking want something. COUNTLESS amounts of people that just sit at home, drinking beer, smoking pot, going clubbing and saying "damn I wish I was rich. BRB spending 200bucks at the club and then going home so I can go work my minimum wage job tomorrow." Gotta be driven enough to focus on nothing but bettering yourself, and you'll get there eventually.
>>524055 thank you for your advice, it is kind of creepy how similar you and i are , even in that 5k figure you had when you were 19 (i had 5k in my bank when i was 18 and was a complete idiot and bought a car. now i know better) if you are canadian as well then it's just plain funny.
i will do my research and hopefully one day in a few year i can see you post again on /biz/ and thank you.
>>524275 Haha yeah I actually am Canadian. We're at a huge advantage when it comes to daytrading though. And for sure man, if anything that should encourage you even more; anyone can do it and it's realistic. You're welcome and good luck dude!
SureTrader. Free Level 2 Live Market Access for almost every stock (they're missing some OTC's). All you have to do is change your MAC address every week as well as request a new account with new email and you can paper trade as long as you want. Also, take a look at EquityFeed. 30 day Full Version free trial, no credit card needed.
>>524302 This is a bit unrelated but what are some vices/habits/ general things that someone should give up to become successful in day trading? What i mean is, there are alot of people who day dream about becoming traders but then they stop because they need to go play a video game or distract themselves with other bullshit.
What do you think is necessary to give up on in order to be able to truly focus on learning day trading?
Not unrelated at all, I've seen tons of people fuck this up and blow up their accounts because they had bad habits. Just like with anything, you can only focus on something for as long as you can stay interested. Taking breaks from studying/scanning/analyzing is perfectly fine, but walking away because you want to play video games or watch a movie just shows a lack of motivation/drive. When I started studying, I stopped playing games the entire time because I knew if I started playing I wouldn't stop. Of course, I took breaks here and there; watched a TV show, went out with friends etc. But my focus was ALWAYS on the market. To be completely honest with you, as long as you have the right mindset and you're TRULY determined to become a good daytrader, you'll find a way to make it happen even if you come across distractions. One thing I will warn you about though; during that initial learning curve, unless you wanna fuck up, forget about an active social life (Partying, clubbing, etc). You'll thank yourself later. Some things are just more important.
Once you've become a fairly decent trader, you can be more laid back about that kinda shit. Obviously that doesn't mean stop trying to improve, you still gotta look into potential plays for the next day, do research and whatnot, but once you have some experience in the market, you've got some leeway to let those habits come back into the light. I play games all the time now, I go out every other night, etc because I know what I'm doing now. It's just like being trained for a job. Once you're more comfortable doing the job you were hired for, you start finding shortcuts to certain tasks, being more relaxed while at work, etc. because you know what it's all about.
>>524310 >>524308 Thank you very much anon , i am not very well educated in business/trading as much as i wish i was. So I've got a long way to go and alot to learn but i am taking your advice to heart .
What are some things you wish you had known early on in your journey ?
>>524533 the one where I get my gf to pick you up at a bar then lead you back to her car then I jump out beat the shit out of you and take your money, phone and keys. Then I watch your house for a day or 2 and then rob you while you are gone.
>>524310 can you give an estimate of how much money you trade with on average? I'm assuming you can't day trade with like millions if you stay under $35 right? Also how long is an average work week for you currently? And how much do you get taxed on income in Canada? It would be 45% where I live i the US
I've fucked off enough. I've got a wife, 2 kids, am 27 and have been doing shit work for 9 years. Got a government job a while back only to get fucked by "being a civilian" and getting laid off along with like a hundred others. I don't mind about being rich . I just want to be able to work hard and make enough to not have to worry anymore. I live in Texas and the job market is terrible in my area. I want to give my family a decent life. Please, show me the way. Mentor me. Guide me. Ill email or chat or whatever, I just want to be done with this.
>>524829 >>524878 I'm sorry for the wait in response, I was tending to my kids. Anyways, no, I don't have a degree and neither does the wife. I have a GED as I was forced to get one back when I lived in Puerto Rico but didn't know spanish. Father moved there after retiring. I was easily more than capable of finishing high school with straight As, but the language barrier was just too much. I failed several years. Anyways, there's some of my fucked situation.
>>524168 Every market is different, right now after the hurricane that ravaged Cabo San Lucas there is lots of good property for sell that was damaged and you can pick up for cents on the dollar if you are a competent builder . Once the town bounce back in a year or two this real estate will be worth a lot more
Untrue. Sorta-wealthy here and I'm not doing forex or options, so I'm not playing a zero-sum game. I want to see other market participants succeed. Your loss is not my gain, nor vice versa.
What keeps me up at night is the idea of a generation of kids entering the market and never investing, and ending up like a lot of Depression-era people did: "investing" in a savings account and earning very little over inflation, because "Wall Street" was rigged.
Well, yes, Wall Street is rigged. It's rigged to funnel money from those who work for a living (labor) to those who invest for a living (capital). Buy a boring-ass index fund and let the trickle-up work in your favor, not against you. Don't try to sell at the very top, don't try to buy at the very bottom. Extract value out of the long boring times in between where the market just crawls its way up.
Fuck sorry, finished up some trades and went to sleep earlier. Forgot about thread. Anytime guys, it's all about paying it forward. Hm..that's actually a hard question to answer. I guess you'll hear this quite often, but it's definitely the hardest thing to pull off. Never trade off of emotions man. Don't get greedy, don't think to yourself "damn I lost 300 yesterday so I need to make 300 more today," don't trade if you're angry or upset about something and you know it'll affect your performance. Shit like that will make you lose money QUICK. Also, don't cheap out on market data. I tried to trade without Level 2 once and it went terribly. I was still paper trading at that time but Level 2 quotes is absolutely crucial to day trade. Another HUGE thing, arguably the most important; set a target for yourself and lock in profits. Don't be too scared to walk away from a trade once you've made your money. Getting too greedy can easily work against you and a stock can drop quicker than you can react sometimes.
There's never a STRICT plan. Stocks are dynamic, you gotta go with what the chart, volume, and price action are telling you during the day. From time to time, there will be perfect textbook setups that can be played brainlessly. But a lot of the time there are trades that involve some degree of experience and intuition. It's a little bit of both. You definitely NEED to make some rules for yourself and stick to them though.
No. As long as you can add, subtract, multiply, and sometimes divide, you can daytrade. No special advantage really comes from advanced math, statistics, or computer sciences. Scanning/filtering sites will work out all statistics for you.
>>524740 Right now I'm trading with a 400k account. Next year I'll probably start with 500-600k. And of course you can trade cheap stocks with millions, you just take larger position sizes. Obviously that doesn't mean dump your whole account into one stock, but bigger position size = bigger potential reward. I know millionaires that still trade sub-penny stocks sometimes. Trade anything that can make you money. Like I said before, if you trade well, commissions/share are negligible. Also I trade 5 days a week. I wake up at around 7, shower, eat, etc. Do research, start trading premarket at 8. I'm USUALLY done by about 11-12am when I'm up 1500-2500. In Canada we have tiered tax brackets, you can look them up. But only 50% of your profits in stocks is considered taxable income.
OP here, thanks for the replies guys, very constructive. Here's a little background on me: I'm 18 y/o and I know how to do videography, I've done video editing for companies and musicians, not the crappy kind, with good graphics, even did kinetic typography. I know how to write, I've run blogs, websites, traded Forex with real money, traded stocks on demo, worked as vice president at a moving company for like a couple of weeks, did account-trading and currency trading on games, have good public speaking skills(Spoke in front of a group of thousands in school), know the basics about computers and internet, know Word, Excel and all that basic shit, love to write passionate speeches, am patient and calm, play the guitar, quick learner.
I'm working on a video-game project right now which I believe will provide me money, but that will materialize in around a year before I begin making anything off it. I'm looking for ways now so I can move out and get my own place.
Problem is, I am a student in the US, so I can't technically work for any company as my visa won't permit that.
So any more tips, anybody would like to hire me, blah blah anything, where to start? I mean I have a whole lot of time left, I'm very young, and have a lot of willpower. So I want to utilize my time here the best I can.
Thing is, I prefer advice from complete strangers, you offer it without any bias.
Thanks man, appreciate it. Not many people can say gratz to someone successful, most people just hate on them out of envy lol.
And I believe I did mention my mental stop losses (aka risk) and I determine it using previous supports or lows. If it dips below a previous support/low, chances are that its gonna crack much further down. Of course, if I'm shorting I look for previous highs/resistance. As for position size, it all comes down to how confident you are in the trade. I've done trades early on in my "Career" where I bet 90% of my account. I've also done trades where I bet like 5%. If you have to stop, and ask yourself, "Shit, what if this doesn't go the way I think it's going to go," you're in way too big and you need to size down. Also another thing worth mentioning is scaling in. If you see a trade you like, don't buy 50k shares right away, for example. Start with maybe 10-20k, see if it's going your way, add another few thousand, keep watching it, add more, etc. Work up to your goal. Yes, you may not be maximizing profits this way, BUT you could save yourself a TON of money if the trade goes against you unexpectedly.
>>525331 No. I use Briefing.com, Yahoo Finance, SeekingAlpha for news.
DasTrader, SterlingPro, and EquityFeed for market platforms/feeds.
Also I mentioned some sites in one of my earlier posts that will help out newbies. Some google searches will get you some more.One forum that I forgot to mention that's actually pretty amazing is hotstockmarket.
Haha, if it were purely luck I would've lost my money a long time ago. Wouldn't have been growing for 3 years if it was just luck. Like I said, I only bet big when I'm 99% sure that the stock will do what I want it to do. Otherwise I play small. Always ensure your risk/reward ratios are favorable, and always respect your stop loss.
Eh.. I put all that stuff off to get started. Stopped working out for like a year and a half, money was more important to me. West Coast sucks though, You gotta be at your computer at 6 30 AM for market open. 4AM for premarket.
Whether it's a bull market or a bear market, there's still money to be made. Stocks will always be volatile on a daily basis, and I don't hold stocks long term. Price action is all I care about, and price action will exist whether its a bull or bear market.
To the guy investing, I'm curious: How familiar did you get in your learning process with mathematics and probability? Are you familiar with Ito calculation, do you delve into the RNG algorithms, etc.
Also, with your track record, did you consider joining a hedge fund/bank? Yeah I get that you want to work on your own terms, but seeing how much you make with just your own money, you could make mad profits leveraging high amounts of money.
Think I answered this already. I don't use anything except price action, volume, chart patterns. No probability, no advanced math, no bullshit advanced technical analysis. Just the basic stuff. As for the second question, no. I've never considered it, I like the way my life is going right now. I have the freedom to do whatever I want and I really don't want to work for someone else after this. Being able to work on my own terms is great, and I wouldn't give it up for anything at this rate. Besides, I think you need some sort of education for those kinds of jobs and I'm a dropout. Maybe I'll look into it later on down the road if I get greedy for more money but, as of right now, I'm content with what I'm doing. My goal is 1 million a year and, if I'm able to hit that on my own, then I don't care for anything greater.
>>525139 >no special advantage I was asking because I want to become a day trader but my family absolutely wants me to go to college, so I'm trying to figure out which field of study could help. Would economics be more useful? Are there no cases for which math or stats/probability can be useful depending on one's strategy? If not, how come prop shops and hedge funds either hire people with math/stats bachelors' or CS/math PhDs?
The times work just fine for me, I was referring to times for people that live on the west coast.
>>525579 I'd rather not give out my email because I only use one email for everything and it has my full name in it, which I'd rather keep private for now. But I frequent this board so you can just make a thread if you have any questions and I'll answer what I can. It also lets you get some input from everyone else on the board. Maybe at some point I'll give my email but idk yet.
Eh..economics might help. Maybe some stuff in the field of finance; just helps you understand the world better and decrypt financial jargon in some news articles I guess. And as far as I know, I can't really think of any cases where it can be useful. Perhaps there are strategies out there somewhere that could use math/stats but not mine. I don't see how that would work, considering stock prices don't typically follow statistical rules or anything. And I feel like educational requirements in 80% of jobs these days are just a way to filter out the "lazy" people. Someone I once spoke to worded it pretty well; a degree is just proof that you've learned how to learn.
>>525581 Ok, what is your "bankroll management" so to say?
Let's say I have 10k to start with.
How do I make sure I don't fucking lose it? How big should my first trade be?
Does day trading mean that you will always buy in the morning, sell in the evening or can it depend? Can you buy one day, sell after 3 days? What is your discipline like? Do you have preset of hard rules?
>>525582 >And I feel like educational requirements in 80% of jobs these days are just a way to filter out the "lazy" people. Someone I once spoke to worded it pretty well; a degree is just proof that you've learned how to learn. That's very true, but it's one of those truth you should never ever say to anybody. Everybody knows companies have to form their new graduate employees, even if they have PhD, but nobody wants to admit it.
>I don't see how that would work, considering stock prices don't typically follow statistical rules or anything. Well there's the classical example of: you analyze stocks/products by pairs, until you find two of them that are closely correlated. If they are, it's because of some fundamental reasons (like one is a raw material used to make the other). Then you look for a moment where the two values diverge, one drops, one rises. Since you know they will probably come back together because of those fundamental reasons, you short the one which rised and buy the one which dropped, until they re-equalize.
These are the kinds of things you'll learn on your own through research, experience, and time spent paper trading. As for making sure you don't lose it? So many people seem to get some money, and just jump into the market thinking "this is the best way to learn." That's completely wrong, it's an awful way to learn. Like I said before, PAPER TRADE until you're consistently profiting. CONSISTENTLY. By consistent I mean green on 4 out of 5 days on average. Any less and you need to refine your strategies and learn more. I somewhat covered position sizes in this thread already as well, so read through all of my prior posts. Once you learn what you're looking for (which comes with time,) you'll be able to increase your position sizes but, at the beginning, start low so you don't chop chunks off of your account before you've even had a chance to grow. Day trading doesn't mean buy in the morning, sell in the evening. Day trading just means I'm buying and selling stocks, USUALLY within the span of ONE market day. Typically I make 3-4 trades from premarket to close. I've never held a stock for longer than one day before (Overnight, selling/covering the next day). Discipline is absolutely crucial. You can't be losing money and sitting there thinking "Hey, maybe it'll turn around for me. There's a chance." You can't think that way. Keep your stop losses strict, whether they're mental or not, and respect them at all times. Lock in profits when you meet your target. Don't get greedy, etc. I've covered some of these things in previous posts as well, go through the thread.
Well yeah, but see that isn't something defined by statistics moreso than it is by logic. For example, the recent Ebola hype in the market. LAKE and APT practically mirrored each other everyday. Doesn't take much experience to realize the trend after 3 hours of watching them both, you know what I mean? Pretty much anything you wanna do in the stock market can be learned with a simple google search and effort. Doesn't take a degree to do fundamental analysis
Eh. There are some days when I do more but, like I emphasized before, when you trade well, commissions are negligible. Quality > Quantity; trading too much adds up in commission and can take away from profits, so I've made a habit of making few trades in a day, but good trades. Large position sizes though, obviously.
I assume, enough would be like millions, and... furthermore... I assume you don't have millions, else you wouldn't hang around in 4chan discussing such topics. So we both don't know, right? What I can say is that if you have enough to live and can buy everything you want, you still can't buy a lot of things... happiness, health, love.
Can't cure it, but you sure as hell can pay for the best treatment money can buy. And instead of sitting around wallowing hopelessly once diagnosed, you can live what's rest of your life however you want to. I'd rather live a short happy life than a prolonged crappy life.
Trade with a margin account, but don't use more than your cash balance. Cash accounts suck because it takes 3 days for funds to settle after a trade is made. Margin accounts are instant. But borrowing on margin is a bad idea for obvious reasons.
>>525616 criticizing other people for wanting money yet you are on a forum dedicated to money related things? did you look up that term, idiot? fuck off if you don't like what's being discussed. no one wants hear that bullshit poor people say about money don't buy happiness and shit, why would they spend 60years of their life working dead end jobs living paycheck to paycheck if they don't care about money hate fake ass people be real with yourself if no one else.
>>525636 Could you go through and tell us a bit of your day work plan. Where do you go to check the stocks? Do you have a certain watch list and focus on trading only select stocks? Or do you just look through overall market data via filters like you said and pic a few stocks that match your filters. If you do, could you tell what filters do you use and what do you look for specifically. Sharing info about stocks on /biz/ would in no way give you competition like other industries, so I thought maybe you could share in detail.
I sometimes make watchlists the night before, other times I make them in the morning. I mentioned briefing.com, amazing site for daytraders to look for stocks to trade. Info is streamed there much earlier than other sources and other top traders are there as well. I've covered my sources in a previous post. I trade whatever stocks are relevant for the day. as for what filters I use, go through the links and websites I mentioned for newbies in a previous post. Theyll teach you what to do. Like I said, I'm not one to spoonfeed info. Not because of competition, but because I want people to learn things for themselves and show enough determination to research on their own.
>>525606 >Believe me, money buys happiness fucking this.If you have money you will not care of everyday shit. >hurr do i have money for rent,car >is this too expensive may be i should reinvest. I like your style anon
>Stocks? Startups? Real Estate? Out of the 3, obviously startups. I can look at the CNBC feed and guess what's going up, plus macro, but you're not me and you'd lose money in stocks. You need a bubble to make money in real estate. But anyone with a decent idea can embezzle with kickstarter
Becoming a millionaire is just the first step in becoming a multi-millionaire. No one said you have to stop growing at 1m. Also, even if it is 2014, being a millionaire still puts you in the top percentile.
>>526243 Depends. If they're not in the thread and they're not questions that can easily be answeredby googling, sure.
>>526281 >Eh. I aim for 5-10% per trade. If I'm having a crappy day and I need to scalp, then I settle for less.
Cool, thanks for the response.
I'm actually 19 right now, and have a few thousand to put into stocks. Finding your story pretty inspirational, to be honest. I'd love to daytrade, but I work two jobs and the nature of my work doesn't really allow for me to spend much time trading on the internet unfortunately.
I guess that leap of faith is what separates the poor and "safe" from those of us who made their wealth.
How does one search for stocks exactly. I mean, it's obvious that you must research a stock through and through but where does one find ones to actually proceed your research with futher? Stock Market Activity?
>>526255 You mentioned before that you use SureTrader. Do you use the web app or the desktop app? It sounds like a retarded question, but I'm thinking about trying out the free paper trading feature and I'm wondering what I need in terms of features, etc.
>>523865 Getting a better job for starters. Buy assets, not liabilities. (Car is a liability, Restaurant is an Asset (usually) and yes Bonds and Real Estate. It takes time but cash flow increases faster than inflation because most parts of the world are generally growing.
>>526281 5-10% per day? I don't believe this for one second. It's hard to even find a single stock that moves 10% a day unless you're just trading penny stocks, might as well do crypto currency at that point.
Shit, you're right. I like to come on /biz/ in my spare time and talk about the life I wish I had. How did you catch me?
>>526357 I used SureTrader to papertrade and learn, I never used them as a broker myself. You should definitely use them to learn, I'm pretty sure it's the only one that hooks you up to live market data with level 2 quotes for most stocks. Some OTC's won't work on it though. Just make a new account every week and change your MAC address every 7 days to keep using it.
>>526656 I'm not sure what to say to this other than you're not looking at the right stocks bud. Tons of micro-small cap stocks move enough for you to be able to make 5-10% on your investment. You're trying to tell me it's impossible to make 500 off a trade that you put 5k into? You're doing it wrong. Use a platform with filters, and use % Change to screen for stocks that have moved +/-10% in the day. There are quite a few, remember that there is money to be made whether they go up or down. There are even more stocks that move +/- 5$ in the day. I gave a general range of what I aim for, I didn't say I made at least 10% on every single trade that I've ever done.
>>526665 I have no need to prove myself to anyone on here. Believe me, or don't. It doesn't affect me in any way whatsoever. Also, no. I had no help from my parents. My family was broke before this, I used my savings.
>>526281 Hey bro thanks for all the info... I have always wanted to get stared but didn't know where to get stared. Much appreciated and I wish you continue with your success x1000. Been thinking of reading the free course at babypips. Com but that is forex..
Anon, thank you for all your info. Idc if you're fake or not, but just reading about the hard work people put into building themselves into a better person motivates me to get my ass in gear and start learning about the stock market. I'm 20 yrs old, studying to be an computer scienctist but obviously there is a shit ton of work/schooling necessary to succeed. I'm thinking of maybe taking some time off and dedicating my time to studying everything and anything that can help me break into the stock market and make some kind of profit. I just wanted to say thank you and hopefully I too will be on my way to making a great deal of money.
P.S. i will be frequenting this board every now and then for help/tips so i hope to see you posting.
Like I said before, I've just never looked into forex. Stocks are the first thing I researched and actually got into, and the market interests me. I'm happy with where I am right now and it works for me. Maybe at some point down the road I'll explore forex. Also when I started out there seemed to be a lot more resources available that taught about the stock market compared to forex.
>>526751 Any time man. Haha yeah some people just need that little push and they become a whole new person, this shit isn't as impossible as everyone makes it out to be. And yeah dude, take shit slow, it requires patience. Just dedicate a few hours of your time to studying shit on a daily basis, and don't rush into anything until your fairly confident you know what you're doing. Good luck man, in both the market and your studies. And for sure dude, I'll be on this board more often.
Screeners, filters, and scanners are all the same thing and the term is used interchangeably. Just because you call it one thing, the rest of the world doesn't have to. Also, raging to prove a point stopped working when you turned 10. And also, learn to read. I said I AIM for 5-10%, not that I get it every time. I sometimes scalp, as I mentioned. But just because you can only get a handful of 7% gains, doesn't mean everyone else is incapable of it.
>>527036 you said earlier that you were good in school. I was also a straight A student. Just wondering if you felt like you had any other special skills that have helped you along the way. Lots of common sense? Mental calculation?
>>527036 If anything I hope you ARE telling the truth because we do the same thing. Do you short or just use long positions? Maximum you are willing to hold for? I usually hold for 1-5 days my maximum being 12 days.
Do you keep a reserve of your buying power in index funds? Ever use margin?
Hey guys I've been daytrading for around a year now and I've been making progress. I definitely can't say that I was positive in the beginning, but now I've been seeing consistent profits. I guess you could say I'm the early version of WnWU3ry2 one year in. If anybody has anything to ask to a new timer who've only just recently been seeing profits go ahead and ask.
Somethings to add to WnWU3ry2 stuff is econoday is a goldmine for newstimes.
Oh and mr. WnWU3ry2 if you would like to, I wanted chat with you. Nothing serious, I just wanted to make more trading friends.
>>527071 If I have a losing month I re-evaluate my strategy. If it's not compatible with the sentiment of the market at the time you need to start doing something different like looking at futures or shorting. Even holding cash is better than losing $. In a bull market it's the easiest to make a shit load of gains on long positions because you know if a blue chip just had a major crash it was overhyped and will bounce back (at least temporarily) almost immediately.
By being a swing trader and not a daytrader I can work a full time career. Currently I have a very small business while going to college finishing my finance diploma. I'm then going tol work in a bank to make high net worth contacts and hopefully become a broker/senior analyst/corporate banker in less than 10 years.
A salary above 150k is my realistic goal (not including the profits of my solo investments)
My dream is a 7 figure salary which would be possible after being promoted to what I mentioned above
>>527071 1. Anywhere from 2.5k-4k 2. I haven't had a losing month yet (surprisingly), but ordinary, stick to the system that you trust and everything will work out in the end. 3. I have a lot of plan Bs: I still go to school, veteran status, work, anything?
Brother, we're actually very similar. I'm 23 years old, 5 years US army. I have no idea what CS BCh is (computer science?), but assuming that it's school related I'll tell you my story, it'll be quicker that way.
>18 joined army >22 done 4 year contract >started school with GI BILL (US gov. pays for my school incase you didn't know) >during school hours I would study trading on the side while waiting for the bus or something. >now I still go to school, and trade on the side.
Any more questions? Oh and by the way I'm looking to make friends who trade. I guess I'm trying to grow my social circle of people who I can relate work with?
Yes, CS is computer science. I'm not from the US. I plan on moving to Germany for school this/next year, right now I don't do much, I study math for 1-2 hours a day, go to the gym and basically chill. I'll start reading about the stock market and daytrading. The problem is I have about 12k$ liquid right now, which I'm saving for school(living costs etc)
>>527088 >12k liquid for school Like how a lot of people will say: Only trade risk capital aka: money you don't mind losing.
I trade futures so I can't say for stocks or options, but I honestly say you should start with 10k because you will lose a lot of money. So build up more capital before you trade if that's emotional money.
>>527112 Start-up literally means anything. For instance, for me it was start-up online trading. And there's also info online how to start-up your own stuff, you just have to have a passion for something.
>>527210 >what's a system? A system is like a strategy guide that you stick to. Maybe something like buy at A then sell at B etc.
>>527229 >Holy shit this thread is like /b/ Well it is 4chan after all. But in seriousness, you can definitely make money doing anything. it's up to you whether or not you believe in it. I was also skeptical when I started losing alot of money (like 10-20% of my account). Then I realized that the problem was me for not believing. After all, I don't gain anything in trying to convince you to do anything.
>>527270 Just taste, I guess. I actually studied how to trade stocks first, but I then I thought it was too much work so I switched to options. Then I stopped studying options because I didn't like how it operated leaving me with futures. I don't think there is a difference in the trading world. Probably the only difference is that you gotta pay attention to different news events.
>>527210 Not that there's no such thing as a system that's guaranteed to always make money, etc. If there were, everybody would use it, and nobody would be making any money off it. Markets move because investors have thousahds - millions - of different systems, and prices move as money flows between them.
What a system really gives you is discipline. "Buy, hold, and hope it comes back if it moves against you" is not a system. Sometimes it goes to zero, or never comes back.
A system like "buy when these two moving averages cross, and sell when they cross in the other direction" isn't delivering value because there's anything magic about moving averages. It delivers value because it gives the trader a signal to sell before a small loss becomes a large loss. A disciplined trader will sell their stock when the system says to do so.
An undisciplined trader will say "Umm, maybe it'll go higher so I'll hold it..." and either devolve to "I hope it comes back", or worse, maybe it *does* go higher, but if they've already abandoned their system for some emotional idea, they now have no way of knowing when to sell.
tl;dr: The most important part about a system isn't the choice of indicators, it's the ability of the trader to stick to it.
I try to both short and use long positions, but I'm just personally more comfortable with shorting so most of my trades are shorts. Max I've ever held for is 2 days. Like 75% of the time I finish trades intraday, 24% I'll do overnight holds. Something like that. And no index funds, and I never buy on margin.
>>527060 Yeah dude it takes some time to get going I guess, that's where a shitload of paper trading paid off for me. Once you start seeing consistent profits you just feel on top of the world though. And yeah sure, post your email.
>>527459 See this can go two ways. If you're gonna pay for a guru service and follow them blindly and just try to copy their entry/exit using alerts, you're gonna fail and you're gonna run off preaching that it's a scam. However, if you use all the resources these gurus give you, listen to what they say, understand their reasoning, and do research of your own; you'll definitely be able to profit off of their teachings and the service will pay for itself. Lots of people say Tim Sykes is a scam. He isn't a scam, he's just a scumbag. His videos are quite helpful at times, and you can pirate his DVD's. However his live chat sucks, the decent traders in there rarely talk/explain what they're doing and it's just amateurs spewing off BS about what they think is going to happen when they have -10k records on profit.ly. InvestorsLive is a good chatroom, great videos, explains his trades, and he's a much better teacher imo. I tried both of them for a while and InvestorsLive was much better. His DVD is also much more educational than Tim's and I feel it's more indepth. This can also be pirated, since these gurus charge like 1k+ for dvd's. But yeah, like I said before, whether you profit or lose money is all up to you and how you use the info they give you.
>>527484 In one day? I lost about 190k this year off one stock. Fucking ebola. Unpredictable. Broke my rules and didn't respect mental stops.
Her bro, if you're still here I wantd to ask for some advice. Basically, I'm nearly 22 in like ten days and though I had tons of interest in investing since I've been 17 depression and fear have stopped me from committing to being good at, so here I am, broke, and old, with little education. I was wondering if you think I should try to follow my goal of getting into a top ten university (personal reasons, this is my long term intermediary goal) or should I focus on trading. Is it possible to both?
I'm no life advisor, but I'd say go for whatever option actually interests/motivates you. If you say you've been interested in investing for 5 years now, given that you've done adequate research and your due diligence, I say go for it. The fact that you're interested in it will drive you to be successful, it's motivating when it's something you actually want to do. It's definitely possible to do this and try to get into school as well, it all comes down to who you are as a person. Me, personally, I'll be the first to admit I wouldn't have been able to handle school and learning to trade at the same time along with a part time job when I first started. It would've been too much. However, that isn't to say it's impossible, people have balanced those things and been successful. You probably know yourself better as a person than I do, base your decision off your capabilities. Perhaps focus on trading until you're semi-decent at it and then work towards your other goal? You've got tons of time to turn your life around, 22 isn't old.
You're welcome. Read through the thread for the sites, blogs and forums I recommended for newbies, some others have also recommended some websites. There's really nothing specific to learn first, just explore the resources and you'll understand it in no time. You can also get a 2 week trial at Tim Sykes website I believe and go through his video library, I'm pretty sure he has several videos that teach basics for beginners. Just go on his site and wait for that little chatbox to pop up in the bottom right and ask for a trial.
>>527881 Hey WnWU3ry2 it's ycP0IPxr. Yeah I like to think of my losses as a "deposit" into the market and make a withdraw later lol, which I've already done so. Some people pay for services that educate them, and I choose to pay for my mistakes in order to educate myself. in the end we're educated and that's all that matters. Here's my e-mail:ycare123(a)hot...mail. It's a junk e-mail so if I don't get back to you right away don't think it's the wrong e-mail.
>>527880 >where do I start? To expand on WnWU3ry2, I say head over to investopedia and read/watch everything. If you head over the gurus right away, sometimes they talk in a manner that newbies won't understand using technical jargon.
It's just a matter of how much you're willing to prioritize actually learning the skills to get there. Most people have a 100:1 ratio of greed to patience, so they'll never be able to independently reach and successfully sustain figures like that without someone handing it to them.
>>524056 >Also, if you're Canadian, you only get taxed on 50% of your profits. Why would you pay 50% tax when you could incorporate and pay a much lower tax? For instance you would probably qualify for a small business and pay only 17% tax.
>>528197 You don't pay 50% tax. The capital gains you make say ($2,000) only ($1,000) 50% would be taxable. So whichever your tax rate was is taxed on that $1,000. if 17% tax you'd pay $170 on capital gains of $2,000.
There's one thing I want to convey to you, however it's very difficult how to explain this.
You see, there is an important aspect of trading that not a lot of people will teach you (actually I've only seen one person ever teach it). All the factors we've spoken on here apply to trader that it applies to. What I'm trying to say is that there are different types of personalities and they have different trading methods. What Sykes does, as far as I remember, he shorts penny stocks and trades intraday only. My trading style is COMPLETELY different.
I tried a lot of different trading styles until I've landed on the perfect one. In other words I've lost a lot of money trading the wrong styles until I found the right one. All I can say is: learn yourself before learning how to trade. But of course, learning terminology and technical words is a good start.
>>528968 Oh really, my mistake. However, my previous warning still stands, get more capital before you start, you will lose a lot of money.
Now that I'm sober I'll illustrate another two warning for new comers. 1. Paper trading is not real trading. There are such things as queue times and market fills. Therefore, some trading techniques are dead (not really, but to you they are) and should be avoided. You will understand what I mean when you start to learn, everybody teaches you which techniques are obsolete unless you wanted to "donate" to the free market aka lose money.
2. I highly recommend using the free platform ninjatrader in order to practice/paper trade. It doesn't take any money for you to make an account and use their platform, however it does take money to trade for real. They have something that no other platform has, as far as my knowledge goes, and that is the "market replay". It isn't like most other trading platforms that "insta-fills" you in positions, it has some algorithm to fill you similarly to the real market. Since you have no idea what I'm talking about, just do it.
Looks like this thread is dead. If there are any more questions feel free to ask, I won't be here forever.
>>523945 >There are several ways to make money with real estate, buying holding selling is one, rental property business, commercial real estate, developing land , flipping etc. it really depends in your skill set
There are also various ways to control real estate with options that don't require large sums of money to do and requires more advertising and people skills instead.
>>529587 It's the difference between (bad) luck and knowing what you do. I lost over half my money too the first time investing, got scared and ran away. Now I realize I just didn't know what I was doing. Two people in my family started investing (with good results) and they spend countless hours a day on it. That made me realize how stupid I was :P
>>529697 Ah wonderful a day trader. Ive been looking forward to getting into day trades myself but i lack the start up funds atm, which i guess is good because that prevents me from rushing into things...with that being said Do you use Fibonacci levels when you trade? I always take everything i read and watch with a grain of salt especially when they want to sell me something along with thier advice
Too complicated how? SureTrader is probably the best paper trading platform out there. It incorporates fill times to some extent, uses short sale restriction, only allows shorts if the shares are available, and I do believe there is a way to see commissions on it, I just can't remember the exact option. SureTrader, although it can look a bit archaic, is actually a very straight forward and simple platform.
>>529714 Read the thread please, I don't believe in anything except the basic technicals. More often than not, all those advanced forms of analysis have done nothing for me.
>>529727 >I don't believe in anything except the basic technicals. More often than not, all those advanced forms of analysis have done nothing for me.
I'm actually using some basic analysis indicators such as MACD, and ichimoku. Not that I believe that they are a future-predicting machine, but it's what the "masses" sees and hold some power to an extent. But the old saying is still true, "price is the best indicator."
>>529257 Can someone shed some light on this? I would like to give paper-trading a try with suretrader. Now let's say someone does well consistently and decides they want to try their hand at real trading. What's the difference? What is there to remember so that you don't learn the wrong way?
>>529970 Go learn. Right now you're asking about learning about learning. Do you think anybody taught me how to trade? Do you think I could ask questions to a book or wall of text? Nope. Your making lions out of kittens (or however the quote goes). Just jump in that 3 feet pool you sissy.
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