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daytrading is fine
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You are currently reading a thread in /biz/ - Business & Finance

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>muh 95% fail
The average civy invests and gets btfo

The 5% that actually git gud beat the s&p500

The meme that daytrading is shit was started by autistic accoutants that feel bad for choosing the more boring career
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>no replies
Thats what I thought
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>>1074950
>>1074980
Why would we reply to this?

It's retarded. Yes a small percentage make some money, but why play such a risky game when you can "set it and forget it" instead of actively fucking around with the stuff to AT BEST earn marginally higher than the market.

High risk, low reward.
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>>1074950
Your literally proving that day trading is shit by saying "muh 5% get gud".

Also too much work to barely beat the market, then pay outrageous taxes.

Go long on solid companies and make real bank with cap gain taxes.
>>
Telling yourself that you're different, better than average, and the rules don't apply to you, is the fastest way to fail.
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>>1075001

FYI, this applies to everything in life, not just day trading
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>>1074950
>daytrading is fine
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>>1074950
this thread is just here to attract the autistic 'muh studies' guy from the other daytrading thread

fact is most daytraders do lose and the ones that don't are generally kidding themselves

that isn't to say you can't make money intraday with some skill - it very likely isn't going to happen though - especially now that the more obvious edges have been eroded by machines
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>>1074994
Because the s&p500 doubling every ten years is a meme that was dependant on total united states economic hegemony. With us getting grilled we can no longer sack spwarchucker shitholes, so unless electromagnetic railguns and anti drone lasors start ww3, the s&p500 only has so much longer of free money in it.
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>>1074950
>muh 99.99999967% fail
The average civy buys a single ticket and gets btfo

The 1/299000000 that actually git gud beat the powerball

The meme that playing the lotto is shit was started by autistic accoutants that feel bad for choosing the more boring career
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>>1075018
Ok stick with your daytrading, no one gives a shit if you lose money.

Sounds like you're just trying to convince yourself more than others that you're not making the wrong choice. And that's if you even daytrade and aren't just a roleplaying NEET.
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>>1075020
>implying you can research market trends to improve your odds at pwerball

>>1075016
If 95% of people lose money in a 50/50 zero sum game then theres some juicy prospects to capitalize on
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>>1074980
i'm drunk nigger what do you want?

daytrading can get you small gains but most people take too much risk thinking they'll be a millionaire in 2 years and going on fancy trips and shit in no time.
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>>1075026
>If 95% of people lose money in a 50/50 zero sum game then theres some juicy prospects to capitalize on

So go be that 5% to capitalize on them.

why do you need to make threads about it? Do whatever you want, if you're so smart. Not sure why you need to convince us it's a good idea as well.
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>>1075029
>discussing things on discussion boards is bad
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>>1075032
>posting an image of an atheist man and saying that "since 5% of people beat the market it's a good choice and you can make so much money except I don't and many don't make money, BUT it's possible!" and that it's all a meme and you can become rich is """"discussion"""""

Yeah ok.
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>>1075026
>he thinks the markets are a zero sum game
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>>1075029
There's no real reason to make this thread desu. There are maybe 5 people on here who do algorithmic trading and do ok. No one wants to daytrade for longer than it takes to take the capital and turn it into some less risky investments.

If you can do it, then go for it. Just don't be scared to lose money.

To me, there's this primal thing about it. It's like tracking a fucking mammoth every day. Maybe the fucker gets away and you don't eat for the next month or maybe you take that summbitch down and your family feasts like kings

Until it's time to find that next mammoth
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>>1075047
>muh 5% again
Id bet 95% of people make mistakes in personal accounting, confirmed meme career
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>>1075083
technically, wouldn't it be even less that a zero sum game since broker's take a commission?
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>>1075016
>fact is most daytraders do lose and the ones that don't are generally kidding themselves
I'm just going to paste this back to you in hopes you read it and realize how retarded this sounds.
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>>1074994
Keynes was a daytrading speculator and made 16% annually during the great depression. That is, by the by, not even close to merely "marginally" higher than the market.
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Made $425 in first hour of trading today. How much do you index fags make an hour? Wage fags?
Follow the MM's and do your research. Most people do badly in EVERY entrepreneurial/self employed business arena. Not just day/swing trading. People with low IQ's and not enough discipline fail at trading. The assholes that wake up at 5am to do research are rewarded for their hard work. After trading hours you should read as many book/textbooks on finance/economics/statistics as you can.

Day trading is HARD. This idea that it's all gambling is retarded. The whole point of trading is minimizing risk. It's not for everyone, most people are honestly not smart enough to pull it.
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>>1075232
>Algorithmic trading.
Stupidest new fad I've seen. If your model collapses you can erase days, even months of profits by being a retard and trusting your model too much. Second to second trading is stupid when you're competing with institutional HFT's. Swing trade or trade every few minutes.
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>>1075232
>No one wants to daytrade for longer than it takes to take the capital and turn it into some less risky investments
If you say so.
I've been doing it for 8 years now, rollercoasters every day.
There's really nothing like it.
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>>1075666

Some of us like to spend our time on more exciting things than watching at a screen, waiting for a line to change slope.

My long-term investments are doing fine, and in the meanwhile I'm investing in real estate like a grown person. And guess what, I have enough free time to travel the world with no need for constant internet access.

I mean, to each his own, but to say your way is better is meaningless because you clearly have different goals.

>>1075763
>There's really nothing like it.

...said every gambler in the history of gambling.
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>>1075649
>If keynes did it 80 years ago I can too!

Ok why don't you post your earnings, daytrader fags?
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>>1075666
>>1075763

Swing trader reporting in, posted in the last thread before it became an autismfest. Curious about daytrading. I have a few questions fo you
>Markets traded and why
>Approach used
>How long did it take you to git gud
>Do i need some live news feed (Ransquawk, Bloomberg, etc)
>Leverage, starting capital
>Recommended books
I would also appreciate if you could provide some personal stats (mostly average DD, average monthly profit, and so on)
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>>1075026
>If 95% of people lose money in a 50/50 zero sum game then theres some juicy prospects to capitalize on

It's not a zero sum game you fucking imbecile.

>what are broker fees
>what are taxes
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>>1075767
So.......long term investments aren't gambling, but day trading is?
How long is long term? Is a 3 month hold gambling?
How about 6 months, or a year?

I lost my rulebook, you see.
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>>1075775

There's a trade-off between risk and returns, obviously. Low leverage, diversified long-term holdings present the best trade-off in my opinion.

It's as far from gambling as it gets in the financial world today.

I mean, if you're looking to make a point, you can classify anything as gambling or not gambling.

>"keeping your money in a bank is gambling because the bank might go under"
>"poker is not gambling because it's a game of skill"

It's all about probabilities, and your chances of getting BTFO on a purely mathematical basis are way ahead of mine.
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>>1075783
>you can classify anything as gambling or not gambling
Correct.
And I'm not going to argue that your method isn't lower risk & return than short hold periods.
If that suits you great, but not everyone has the same risk tolerance.
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>>1075769
I trade whatever markets will profit me. Equities, futures, commodities, etc.
I would say I'm still in the process of "getting good".
Most brokerages can give you 4 to 1 leverage intraday, 2 to 1 otherwise. I started with around 50K (but inflation means that may not be enough anymore).
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>>1075800
8 years and still not git gud?
Hmmm
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>>1075805
Haha. Tougher than it seems.
Have no need to add capital, but just saying, not raking in six figures off of it yet.
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>>1075769
>Markets traded
Any, follow smart money
>Approach used
Find correlations and inverse correlations between baskets of stocks. Best stocks to trade are those highly correlated with commodity move pre market. Gold miners can bag 5% on a tiny au price advance.
Mostly I just follow the smart money, watch volume and jump on when rsi is oversold. People who over complicate trading do poorly. Example? Hedge fund performance over 20 years or more.
>How long to get good
3 years. I read a shitload. Always good to know advanced mathematics, statistics and econometrics.
>Do I need live news feed
a decent day trading platform will have news options to add to your chart.
>Starting capital
Started with 10k after practicing for some time with fake $.
>Recommended books
For swing trading get good at advanced statistics and mathematics. What's better than any book is actually practicing though. Use fake account, act like it's your real $.
For short term: quantitative investment strategies (Faboozi), algorithmic trading strategies.
For longer term: Intelligent investor, security analysis, What works on wall street.
I find adding both approaches together works well. This way if you fuck up and lose money intraday in the long run you have margin of safety from Graham style value investing.

Avg monthly profit 2015- 16,250 (rounded)
I make around 5% a day on average.
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>>1075810
That's too bad.
With 50k you could swingtrade tho. With a bit of a high leverage (1:50) you could easily double your account each year until you get capped on levrage.
It's easier and more effective than daytrading.
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>>1075813
Oh, I swing trade too.
My time frames are all over the place, everything from a few minutes to years.
That's probably why I'm lagging on profitability.
Too many ways/things to trade. Haven't settled down yet.
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>>1075812
>Avg monthly profit 2015- 16,250 (rounded)
I assume you get capped pretty quickly on leverage. Also, thank you for the suggestions, i'll try to get my hands on a short term strategy.
I've had success with swing models on currencies and commodities
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>>1075826
I don't leverage. I started with a tfsa, I'm a leaf. Honestly just follow the MM's. Usually indicated by very large repeated lots of over 100k shares or more (depending on underlying avg volume). I used to get really into making complicated formulas and differential analysis on various variables changing price. All of that is pretty much pseudo-intellectual bullshit. Follow the giants.
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>>1075899
So according to you, the way to successfully day trade is to buy what other people have bought, after they bought it, and sell what other people sold, after they sold it?

Alrighty, then.

>Backing away slowly
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>>1075931
You're clearly not experienced if that's what you think I'm saying. It's quite easy to catch an uptrend if you see volume spike. Large lots are filled with more MM action as well as retailers jumping on board late (as they usually do). Price wont immediately change as soon as MM start selling, you catch the MM "wave" so to say. Again the fact that I have to explain this shows you have no experience in trading. You must be one of those EMH fags. If you're looking as some dinky penny stock of course you can't catch the run up from institutional action, but it's harder for them to bid price up immediately in large cap high avg volume companies.
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>>1075975
>Large lots are filled with more MM action
Don't they usually break their orders into smaller chunks to make them less detectable?
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>>1075975
How are you seeing volume spikes in real time? Do you pay for a bloomberg terminal or view them through your broker software? Which software if the latter?
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>>1075975
>You're clearly not experienced
No, you're right. I'm obviously not as experience, smart, or well capitalized as you. Which is why you're a multi-millionaire and I'm not.

So please, tell us more about how you make huge profits by back running large orders.
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>>1075991
Depends on time frame you use. I use 5mins and it averages out broken lots.
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>>1075997
Broker software. I also have access to bloomberg terminal at work though. I often trade while working.
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>>1076013
You sound utterly butthurt. Enjoy wage cuckery. I'm not a multi millionaire, but I do better than most. If you actually took the time to read my previous posts you'd see that's not all I do, and I minimize risk through buying at IV<MP in case I fuck up. It's not as simple as watch the mm's, but that's like half the picture. That being said, it's easier said than done, and takes practice to recognize.
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>>1076039
>Enjoy wage cuckery
I don't have a wage job, loser. I do real day-trading relying on my own judgment. I don't slurp crap trying to follow whales.

If you can't make 40% gainz/month, you're a fucking poser. Just leave now.
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>>1076048

>40% of gainz
>gainz
>posting at chinese cartoon forums
>clearly trying to impress some NEET virginal autists, to compensate for not impressing anybody at real life
>agressive loser-like demeanor
>40% gainz

Sure thing buddy-boyo
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>>1076048
You gambling on a /biz/ penny stock with $100 and making 40% isn't "gains".
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>>1076066
>>1076072
If you can't make money day-trading, then git gud fag. All it takes is practice and brains. And a sweet computer setup. And yeah you need a bankroll, but I got that covered brah.

The most important thing in day-trading is you gotta want it. I mean WANT it. You gotta WANT that dosh, mate. If you want it hard enough, you lidderally can't lose. It's just too easy. Spot them patterns, set your stops, and BOOM BABY cash in cash out.

Trading is primal, desu senpai. Youwagecuck pussies in your air-conditioned basements drinking lattes just can't relate. It's like hunting wild mammoths. You gotta kill to eat. And you gotta love the thrill of the hunt. Until you figure this out, you're just a poser.
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>>1075001
But, there are no rules.
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>>1076173

You sure convinced me that you actually make money by spouting out generic upbeat ramblings and chinese cartoon forum menes, buddyboy.
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>>1075548
no fucktard it's not a 0 sum game
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>>1075666
What do you like for in a trade? I don't understand how people can tell what a stock is going to do in the next hour. I would love to day trade but the more research i do the more I see people saying it's gambling or luck based and that people like you will show profits but eventually will end up broke off of a bad trade. How true is it? I know to win you have to take risks but day trading just seems wreckless.

Is it possible to start day trade without the huge minimum deposit for a day trading account?
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>>1076256

N o one is going to become rich off of the stock market. Traders become rich because they take commissions, not because they understand exactly what's going on. That being said, the market is relatively simple. An industry does good when it becomes demanded, and badly when it gets regulated, or people stop wanting it. Think of a hobby of yours, and try to invest in companies that are popular in your hobby. For example, my uncle managed an account for me until I was old enough to take it over. He's a business owner in the tech industry. He invested in tech that he was using. Another good strategy is to find companies that are making little to no growth, but pay out dividends, and just sit on them for a few years.
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>>1076283
>Traders become rich because they take commissions

you're confusing traders for brokers
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>>1076048

I'm poor and not very smart, but if you could teach me how to get 40% gainz I could turn $100 into $18 million in just 3 years and then retire at 22.
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>>1075770
you can forget about taxes and comissions if you simply bet on the price movements. 0% rate.

depdends what you are trading and what's the frequency. usually it gets harder the higher the frequency, especially for the currencies. slower frequency it's almost impossible to lose
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>>1076256
>Is it possible to start day trade without the huge minimum deposit for a day trading account?
It's possible, but not easy, or a good idea.
Mainly because you'd be unable to trade the same stock multiple times without attracting the attention of the SEC. That means that any stock you get good at reading will require trading on and off on different days, otherwise the SEC will demand you have $25K or freeze your account.
More importantly, your odds (which are slim to begin with) will get even worse if you try to trade with $10K or some shit.
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>>1076048
Well % a day on avg is 25% a week. Do the math institutional fag.
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>>1076761
5%*
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>>1076256
Not sure how the burgers do it, but here in Canada we have the tfsa, which allows you to contribute 46,500 and any gains aren't taxed AT ALL. First get your fundamentals down, this is to ensure if you make a mistake you still have a "margin of safety" Then learn advanced statistics and mathematics so you understand how to run a regression on variables and the different relationships between baskets of stocks in various sectors. Finally don't take a linear approach. Every asshole that trades claims his way is "the way" and that if you don't do it his way you will fail. This is simply not true, there's many strategies and styles. Find which one fits your personality and stick to it. There's big money to be made in almost any style of investing. I must stress that word too, investing. Because even in swing trading, you want to avoid speculating as best you can. Personally I find algorithmic trading stupid when you're competing with HFT's from institutions. So I'd avoid the second to second trading.
>>
>>1075649
>One of the most iconic successful people was successful
>I should recommend his profession to everyone
>>
>>1076761
>>1076763
>>1076768
Butthurt Cancuck loser who only trades with his $1000 retirement fund detected. Get rekt skrub.

>>1076463
>if you could teach me how to get 40% gainz
Of course I could teach you, but why should I? I learned how to day-trade the hard way ... by trying hard and wanting it really bad. With enough practice, I learned how to always make steady profits.

I'm not a millionaire yet, but definitely in the next year or two. All I have to do it keep going at my current pace, and I can't fail.

I'm not going to give that away for free.
>>
Most daytraders are kidding themselves if they think they're "trading". You're just gambling. You need at least 100,000 dollars to make a dent in daytrading. If you don't have the starting capital of 10,000 then don't daytrade. You're not going to make shit. That money is better off index funds. Even with 10k, you should have in an index fund because daytrading requires a lot of money. In order to be consider a hedge fund you need over one billion dollar in assets. Anything less you're not daytrading.
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>>1076954
>fag thinks you need a billion dollars to day trade
Stick with your indexes grampa. I'm sure that 2%/year adds up. Indexes are for people too dumb to make real bank.
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>>1076438

You're right, I'm still a novice, but I think that my advice stands through minor errors in terminology.
>>
>>1077958
So.......you're a "novice", but you're advising the people on this board as to how much money they need to day trade?
This may sound like a funny question, but how the fuck would you know?
>>
>>1078219

I inherited 30k from my grandfather when I was 15, and my uncle took care of it until I turned 21. He taught me a lot about it.
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>>1078219
Welcome to biz where idiots who are novices talk like they are seasoned experts. It's hilarious.
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>>1078312
>Welcome to biz where idiots who are novices talk like they are seasoned experts
You're so fucking stupid. It makes no difference what season it is. If you've done the practice, and stick to your plan, there is no way you can lose money day trading. It's the same every trading day, winter or summer or whatever.

Why do you fags knock trading? Because you can't do it.
>>
>want to invest in stocks

>realize all my potential upside would be eaten up by trading fees and capital gains tax

there's no winning, is there
>>
>>1076768
>Not sure how the burgers do it, but here in Canada we have the tfsa, which allows you to contribute 46,500 and any gains aren't taxed AT ALL

You can use your money in TFSA to invest in stocks ?
>>
>>1078323
Trade medium term. Day trading is a meme, but active trading is not.

Most of the big traders have to resort to 1-3 month positions, because they move the market too much.
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>>1076768
>any gains aren't taxed AT ALL
You can do the same thing here with a Roth IRA.
The only catch is that commissions, etc have to come out of it too (you can't pay for them separately), so you'd better do good if you pick that route.
It would take some time to replace the money.
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>>1078306
>He taught me a lot about it
He taught you that $10K is what you need to start day trading?
Did he tell you that Robin Hood is the way to go?
>>
> gambling
> 50/50 chance of winning/losing
> You can turn the odds to 75/25 if you're not retarded.

Works for me. Made 15% these 2 last weeks.
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>>1078323
>realize all my potential upside would be eaten up by trading fees and capital gains tax
Well, tax can only come out of profits you already made (unless that jagoff Sanders gets his way), so you're guaranteed income if that applies.
Trading fees can vary a bit. I only pay $3 for most trades, but dump thousands on margin interest.
That's optional, but worth the expenditure if you're profitable.
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>>1078399

Holy shit, can you not into reading comprehension? My first post was basically Stay The Fuck Away From Daytrading.
>>
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>>1074999

>too much work to barely beat the market, then pay outrageous taxes

Trade out of a Roth IRA. Pay no taxes on gains.
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>>1076954
>If you don't have the starting capital of 10,000 then don't daytrade
Your words. My reading comprehension is just fine.

Or are you trying to argue that when you tell someone about buying a car, you say, "Don't try it if you don't have $500".
That's helpful.
>>
>>1079846
The more you use the more insignificant trading fees are, if you invest 500 and pay 10 in fees you're losing 2% of your investment. If you don't diversify you'll most likely lose it but if you decide to invest in 5 or so good stocks you're now losing 10% of your investment. If you had 10k and invested in 5 stocks your 50 in trading fees would only be 0.5% of your investment
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>>1079868
>percentages: the class
>>
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>>1079868
10usd fee :D that was 20 years back

seriously, markets are full of insturments with no fee at all. unlss you trade 1min fees are not a problem.
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>>1079846

Look at the post ID's, retard.
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>>1078320
Kek, amazing answer. Exactly what I expected.
>>
>>1080741
You're right, but I think that my advice stands through minor errors in assignment.
>>
>>1079846
>If you don't have the starting capital of 10,000 then don't daytrade

>>1080809

I never said that.
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>>1080744
Fuck you mate. No one cares if you index your way to being a millionaire by the time you're 50. I want to be a millionaire NOW, yo.
>>
>>1080809

Also, highlight the words in the post, then click the post number to quote that post word for word, instead of typing it back out.
>>
>>1074950
Daytrading is good, but only with money you can AFFORD to lose.
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>>1080832
different wording
>>
>>1080966

It wasn't different wording, retard, look at the post ID's. That's not my post.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the type of person advocating day trading. The type of person who can't even figure out how to work a website that he's been visiting (presumably) regularly for any amount of time.
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>>1081002
post ID's
>>
>>1080816
>I never said that
I'm pretty sure I heard you say something.
Was it babiquawasfarlut?
>>
>>1081009
>>1081011

It's hard to believe that anyone could be so stupid.
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>>1081027
>hard to believe that anyone could be so stupid
Try harder.
You're obviously not putting enough effort into it.
>>
>>1080444
>seriously, markets are full of insturments with no fee at all. unlss you trade 1min fees are not a problem.

Where? The best discount brokers I have seen offers like $5 per trade
>>
>>1075769
By the time your seeing the news it's already old. Paying extra for a live feed is pointless.
>>
>>1075812
>I make around 5% a day on average.
1.05 to the 252 power equals about 218,626.
Proof? I don't think that you two hundred thousand fold your money every year.
>>
>>1081193
It really just comes down to how much capital you have..
The more you have, the more you're worth to your brokerage.
The more you're worth, the better rates/commissions they'll give, in order to prevent you from jumping ship.
>>
>>1081193
interactive brokers charges $1/200 shares
>>
>>1081293
$5 a block?
That's not bad. Are there limits, or some sort of hideous catch?
Or do they fuck you somewhere else to make up for it?
>>
>>1081312
idunno. i do alittle trading, not alot. you'll have to look at their fee structure to know better.
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