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>BIG employers are going cold on university...
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>BIG employers are going cold on university degrees, leaving students and jobseekers to wonder if their qualifications are worth the investment and extra study.
>This week, international publishing house Penguin Random House decided to drop degrees as a requirement for job applicants, following in the footsteps of major consulting firms Ernst and Young and PricewaterhouseCoopers.
>The move comes as smaller employers are shifting away from hiring graduates or university students, believing kids are coming out of university with “no real skills” or simply being taught the wrong things.
>Meanwhile, soft skills, such as being personable, adaptable, possessing strong digital skills, and adept at time management are being increasingly valued.
>Maggie Stilwell, managing partner for talent at Ernst and Young, which did away with academic and education details in its application process, said the new recruiting strategy would “open up opportunities or talented individuals regardless of their background and provide greater access to the profession”.
>Graduates were showing up to work with degrees from universities but were “disconnected with the workforce”, she said.
>“A number of our members consistently tell us they’re seeing students come out of university or training programs and they might have the academic or theoretical skills, but no skills to work at all. It makes them really hard to employ,” she said.
>“General issues are not understanding that a job is about turning up on time every day, not just when you feel like, that it’s about taking direction, and basic things like you’ve got to be well presented and you’ve got to be pleasant.”

Thoughts on this? I already have my master's degree and 7 years of work experience so it doesn't impact me much. I wonder if any of the younger people here have seen a big shift in hiring trends.
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>>1059793

>Maggie Stilwell, managing partner for talent at Ernst and Young
>big 4
>doesnt even look at your CV if you dont have 3.3 GPA
what a hypocrite. Why doesn't she hire high school drop outs at EY if this is really what she believes?
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>>1059793
well it was about time, I mean let's be real here, you don't need a degree for most of the jobs you "need a degree for"
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>>1059800
>doesnt even look at your CV if you dont have 3.3 GPA

but that's because a shit ton of people apply for those positions
supply and demand senpai, just get a job at a smaller firm
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I think they made the reasoning pretty clear. The problem with post sec is its four years of NOT being in the workforce, learning workforce skills. Also grade inflation makes idiots lower their performance from reduced expectations.

I'm a smart tradesman which is good because I'll always be perceived as higher value than the typical meathead tradesman.
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>>1059801


I forgot to mention it, but you're right. After 5 years in higher education getting my bachelor's in finance and accounting then my MBA, I don't think it was necessary for my job (underwriting). Sure, a lot of my coursework serves as background info but honestly a several week or month long training course would have sufficed.
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This is what companies do when they're nearing bankruptcy. A lot of high school graduates are in worse shape than college graduates. Also the school aren't teaching "Real world skills" meme is just to avoid paying college grads their wages. They want pajeet or Ching Chong working for slave wages. In a few years they're going to be complaining why people leave their company after a year and how their competitors are stealing their IP rights. This is how you know their head of HR is run by some moron with a for profit college degree. This is the big problem. Companies haven't filter those fucking assholes. Some companies do and they end up with few job applicants than many.
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As a young job seeker I feel like companies have distanced themselves from reality as well. They expect shit loads of things from graduates these days, even if its junior assistant part-time coffee maker position.
From an small Europoor country they assume you obviously speak 2 languages, 3 preferred. You must have SQL/SAP/Microsoft product (non office) experience. You need to have years of experience (but don't expect to be paid for it).
And they want it from very large scale, accounting, taxation, treasury, sales, logistics you name it. Many of skills which are learned via your first job as assumed to be learned in school.
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>>1059814
>As a young job seeker I feel like companies have distanced themselves from reality as well. They expect shit loads of things from graduates these days, even if its junior assistant part-time coffee maker position.

Since I already have years of experience, I don't pay attention for entry-level jobs, but do you still see lots on entry level positions requiring years of related experience?

I had that when I graduated in 2009 but I thought it was because there was a glut in the job market.
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>>1059803
Because they haven't filter the traditional college degrees and for-profit. There are more for-profit graduates than traditional. The times are changing but a lot of companies now filter those for-profits in their job application. If you didn't go to a traditional one that's accredited the software marks you as a non-college applicant. Also this only a few companies. PWC is looking for more workers and EY just took out their GPA requirement because their internal studies proven it didn't mean shit.
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>>1059816

Yes it is still in there.

Its basically code for "we would really prefer to not train someone if we dont absolutely have to"
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>>1059816
They do expect a lot from young job seeker. This is most likely because companies can't afford to hire new talent. Most companies have been operating a net-neutral budget for years. A lot of entry level jobs want new bloods to have 2 years of experience in this propriety software, programming, Microsoft office, and languages. This is just the boomers fucking over Gen X and Y workers so they can meet their retirement goals.
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>>1059817
Is the difference between people who graduate profit college vs. non profit college that big?
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>>1059823
Yes
For Profit is a fucking scam
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>>1059819
>>1059821

Aye. I had to say fuck it and apply for jobs even if they had work experience requirements I didn't meet. I eventually got a job offer but the salary was pretty low ($40k) due to my lack of experience and had to work my way up.

Getting an experienced hire is great, but training can be valuable as well. Other than me, my job has never before or after hired someone without experience. They pay bigger bucks to get an analyst with 10+ years experience. I don't understand why they don't just pay less for a fresh graduate and use they money they save to train them. You get someone built from scratch as you like it and someone who appreciates what your company did. I mean, I'm still with my company because I appreciate the risk and opportunity my job took on me.
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>>1059803
The point is college is a bullshit metric.

Well known "prestigious" universities are more likely to have inflated GPAs compared to areas around them and averages that keep climbing while other universities have held consistent averages for decades.
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>>1059823

A lot of companies will not consider a for-profit degree as an actual degree and more akin to a certificate from a community college.

Others dont recognize it as any kind of education at all
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>>1059823
Yes. A lot of people attend those for profit schools. This is what inflates the college numbers. Which also devalues wages. The government has already step in but they need to regulate the term university. Just like they do with the term engineer. There is only a few non-profit college grads than for-profits. Companies that have this block in place have few job seekers and then can allocate budget to train them. The tech industry hates the for-profit colleges because it spits out thousands of shit coders. So they stopped hiring them. That's how the trend started.
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>>1059793
uni education is so common and useless waste of time and resources that it has become a tell-tell sign of low iq
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>>1059827
>hey pay bigger bucks to get an analyst with 10+ years experience. I don't understand why they don't just pay less for a fresh graduate and use they money they save to train them.
Because most of the higher ups are Boomers. Their motto is greed is good. Your efficient model is something only Gen xers thought up and taught gen y how to think in business.
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>>1059839
Yeah but now if you don't have a degree you don't even get to stand at the starting line.
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Third is old news, but three problem is they three computer will still filter your resume without three degree.

There's also no way to quantify people skills in a resume

Tldr: college is a scam and big business is jerking itself off and anyone who participates is doomed to be a wage slave
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>>1059844
This. If you don't have an accredited college degree than you can't stand in line. With a degree you'll eventually get a job. The catch is getting in the door afterward you'll see there is barely any competition so your wages shoot up.
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This board is so dumb that I can't even be bothered posting a well thought out post.

If you go to uni to study skill X for job Y, you're a low class pleb at a shit uni.
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>>1059841
Also most of the time people making decision on who to hire don't seem to have any clues what the actual job is about (the usual disconnect with HR and other departments).

But what I hate most is the filter requirements every fucking application has. "Be positively oriented" "Be a team player" "Willing to provide your best results". Those mean nothing, yet they kinda expect you to somehow answer these criteria.
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>>1059848
>This board is so dumb that I can't even be bothered posting a well thought out post.

looks like someone flunked his classes
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I'd like to add that HR is a fucking retarded field. There are so many HR off-shoots in Silicon Valley like "Strategic Diversity Officer" or "Lead Women Integration Officer."

Most of the bullshit we have to deal with in hiring processes comes from these HR 'experts' just making up stupid shit to make their job seem relevant.
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>>1059850
Those fucking buzzwords piss me off as well. Honestly just be really cheerful in your interview and positive. Afterward no one cares. Also HR is there for government and tax purposes. The hiring manager is there to see if you're not a social retard. Half of the time jobs are already filled and the whole job process is just smokes and mirrors.
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Soft skills are infinitely more important. This is further killing off the basement dwellers who thought they would get somewhere by taking classes.
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>TFW I should stop working towards my M.D. because robots and trade school burnouts are going to take my job as a surgeon
lol get real losers
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>>1059793
This is just saying what everybody's known: college is the new high school. Everybody gets in, and in order to keep the gravy train flowing, colleges give good grades just for showing up and completing the work.

When I was in university, the course load was ridiculous (state school) but piss easy. I just stopped doing everything but the assignments that were interesting or absolutely necessary. The liberal arts professors hated me. I eventually had one of the business school professors (Retired lawyer, drove a Lotus in for fun sometimes, just a generally cool guy) pull me aside when he realized I had a D in the course, but consistently had A's on every assignment I actually completed. He asked why and I told him I was there to learn, not get good grades. He went on a huge lecture about how college isn't what it used to be. His words were, "This place is for idiots that are too scared to work now. Nobody thinks for themselves. Honestly anon, if I were you, I'd drop out and just try to get my foot in somewhere."

He was right. I'm 24, manage a sales team, don't hold a degree, but make more than any graduate I know. I can go into any interview and in plain black and white show that I increased revenue at my site by 15% and reduced the actual overhead of the building while earning us a tax break. I've missed two scheduled days of work in two years. I'll put that up against almost any degree.
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>>1059839
No it's not you idiot. Some things you shouldn't go to college for but there's a lot that you have to. I'm a robotics engineer, and let me tell you there's no place for you in automation engineering without a master's at least
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>>1059863
That's not true, bruh. Automation will never replace surgeons. Also there will be more medical school opening in the future. California is thinking of opening more med schools.
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>>1059864
>college
>business
>sales
You picked a shitty career. Studying business is more in line with accounting, finance, and econ. Sales is just the trash teir of business. Also you must have went to some shit school because quality b-school professors will never tell you that. It seems the professors just convince to drop out because he didn't want you to be a leeech with a degree. In other words he fooled you, moron.
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i hate math requirements to get into the real sciences that i like. Thats the reason i dropped out, i burned out on math.

Then i just decided to get certifications rather than a degree in computer engineering and sciences. Its loads better and you practically take the same classes online as you would in the university. The difference is that they cram the study. I was able to pass anyway and i didnt need alot of math, just concepts. I loved it. would do again.

The univeristy offers networking tho and fraternities. It was mainly a white privilege thing and now its saturated. Requirements are a jim crow law because alot of the boomers didnt even go to college for computer tech jobs or programming or engineering.
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>>1059872
>Studying business is more in line with accounting, finance, and econ. Sales is just the trash teir of business.
Finance and accounting rely very heavily on sales. When accounting firms try to land clients, who do you think gets them for that firm? My friend works for one of the larger firms in New York. He's trying to move into the sales side of it because being a number cruncher with $40,000 in debt for $60,000 a year isn't paying off. Finance is almost exclusively some level of sales or another. Those bonuses the execs get? Another common term is commission. I used to think the same way as you, anon. But sales is still the life blood of an economy.

Route I took wasn't particularly planned, but I'm happy with it nonetheless.
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>>1059793
>taking direction
Huge red flag. I once got laid off for not taking direction from a know-nothing retard. She loved excuses from failures but absolutely couldn't stand that I knew how to do everything better without her interference.
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^^ sales guy took the bait :/

Just be happy guy. Don't listen to business plebs
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Also fucking computer skills I swear. Your average 4channer has been using computer since he was 7-9 (assuming you are late 80's early 90s kid) and is most likely bit nerdy and has better computer skills than 95% of population. Yet how do you really prove this? Because some of the shit i've seen that is passed as "skill" in work life is just amusing. "WOAH you managed to make a function in excel? FUCKING WIZARD!!!". This really problematic for me to prove, I am not a coder but I have been the nerdy type of computer guy for past 2 decades.
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>>1059888

>50 year old co-worker asking me how to find and replace words in Word
>tell him about the find and replace feature
>oh my god, thank you anon!

I don't understand. Do people not know how to Google?
>>
How much longer will this University scam continue before we have legitimate institution, something like Kahan Academy, offering autodidact degrees four those who pass tests?

You can condense 4 years of college to a year at most through self teaching for the cost of a library card and internet
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College is for networking

(Accredited ones)
(If you went to ITT tech get your money back)
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>>1059888

One of my managers when I worked in IT was a boomer that could barely send an email.

This is why big business is such a money pit
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>>1059884
Most bosses are shit at their job. You can learn your job in less than a day. Mirco-managing is a boomer thing.
>>1059888
Just download excel and look at tutorials. It should take a day or two.
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>>1059886
I'm happy and could care less what an anon thinks, but that dismissive attitude towards sales really holds some talented people back from a lot of money.

This is an advice board, if the consensus of the board is "Sales sucks" because some people that have never been in the industry say so, that's not good advice. 20% of all Fortune 500 CEO's come from a sales and marketing background. That's not an insignificant amount. There's a hilarious disconnect on this board where everyone fantasizes about being a stock broker in the 80's but scoffs at sales.
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>>1059902
>could care less
Couldn't*
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>>1059864
>I can go into any interview
Ok then answer this:
>What is the difference between half controlled and full controlled rectifier? Why go for full controlled while half controlled can control voltage?

I get where you're coming from, but college is still highly relevant if you want to be an electrical engineer etc.
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>>1059912
true for some feilds it makes sense, but for IT for example, experience > all. Most places that I have worked at the majority of the IT workers didn't even have related degrees, they got the jobs through experience in the field, creating projects online and teaching themselves how to code.
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>>1059912

You could learn that yourself from a book or at the library.
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>>1059949
>learning engineering at a library
Go back to Pakistan or whatever third world shithole you come from.
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>>1059894
This already exist for social sciences and humanitarian degrees. Search up bain4weeks and degreeforum. People have been doing it for a while, I got my BA in History degree knocked out in a year all while working full-time.
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>>1059963
>>1059894
This is why traditional college degrees will always trump online schools. These two retards don't know what they're talking about and write like a Mongolian retarded child.
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>>1059950
Take electrician and welding classes, get the book smarts from the books.
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>>1059969
kek, you're right. Let me get my Mongolia Image board degree from CSUN since online degrees from regionally accredited universities are a meme.
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>>1059793
This is only true for a Bachelor's. It doesn't apply to Master's/PhD. So many dumb millennials have shit degree to begin with, such as Women's Studies. Companies have no choice, but to drop the degree requirement to keep their feminist quotas up to standard.
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>>1059912
>Why go for full controlled while half controlled can control voltage?
Because sometimes current needs to be controlled as well. No clue, honestly.

I feel like you're being intentionally obtuse, though. My work experience isn't relevant to that. But if I'd worked with electricity and systems for years prior, I might be able to get close to that level with a genuine interest in the subject matter while applying portions of it in the workforce.
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>>1059994
PhD in Physics here.

Pretty sure i got in via grade inflation because i don't know what the fuck i am doing anymore
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>>1059898
There are GenXers who do it too. I had one appdev manager who literally wanted to choose the name of every variable in my programs. But she couldn't even _use_ anything more complex than an iPhone app, let alone program one (even though she claimed to have been a developer before being promoted to management).
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>>1060111
Seriously, Indian schools are worse diploma mills than anything we have here in the States.
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It's great. It's biting liberal college fags on the ass. I hope they understand the diversity they so wanted is taking their jobs and running their lives in numerous ways.
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I'm 25 and make 100k a year selling solar door to door. I almost transferred to a 4 year from community college. Dodged a bullet. College is for fools. Trust me, I'm a salesman.
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>Meanwhile, soft skills, such as being personable, adaptable, possessing strong digital skills, and adept at time management are being increasingly valued.
>possessing strong digital skills
>digital skills

How the hell is that a soft skill?
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HA
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>>1059845

>three problem
>three computer
>three degree

what am i looking at
>>
college """""education"""""
college is a meme. have you seen the type of retards at colleges these days. it's basically one big frat house full of retards and whores. you can't blame companies for seeing through the degree gimmick
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>>1060340
Stuff like multitasking, finding desirable information quickly, and being able to spot disingenuous information are more experience-based and not trained which is why they tend to get lumped in as "soft skills"
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>>1059793
I worked in a college and started seeing this a DECADE ago. Frankly, everyone has a degree these days and 90% of it is computer related or something studies. Mix the two and you have no edge from getting a degree at all. Period.

College is a money mill. I have seen schools that have stuff on the final exam they never taught in class (and the dean was in on it), classes that have insane requirements to pass (90% in both the main class and the final exam. Miss either by a single point = retake). and classes that teach absolutely nothing of use (pretty much any non-certification computer class) all wrapped up in what is best described as extended high school. It's garbage there to pump wallets dry. Most people are better off at trade schools or buying a book and self-teaching to make a portfolio.

I have been saying this for years and nobody listened. It's happening now. I feel like Cassandra. FML.
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>>1060399
barely 25% of the country has a college degree. That's not everyone.
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>>1060399
>Most people are better off at trade schools
Bigger meme than going to college. Talk to any tradesmen and most will tell you that the trades don't pay well. You max out your earning potential before 25. If you don't have a university degree you chances of being a manager are slim to none. By the time you're in your late 30s, your body will feel like its in it 60s. This is why tradesmen die younger than the average American.
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>>1059850
>Also most of the time people making decision on who to hire don't seem to have any clues what the actual job is about (the usual disconnect with HR and other departments).
>But what I hate most is the filter requirements every fucking application has. "Be positively oriented" "Be a team player" "Willing to provide your best results". Those mean nothing, yet they kinda expect you to somehow answer these criteria.
Yeah. HR Departments are largely the requirements of gender ratio policies which mean the company has to put on a bunch of female staff to do something, and they can't tell them just to do nothing so they put them in HR where they can't fuck shit up too much.
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>>1060416
>barely 25% of the country has a college degree. That's not everyone.
Pushing 40% of 25-30y/o. That statistic is increasing year on year as well.
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>>1060479
>Pushing 40% of 25-30y/o.
Another way of stating this:
Every young person with an IQ of 104 or above gets a degree. That's how many people have degrees these days.
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>>1059793
>>“General issues are not understanding that a job is about turning up on time every day, not just when you feel like, that it’s about taking direction, and basic things like you’ve got to be well presented and you’ve got to be pleasant.”
I imagine that if you have a degree and do those things than you're still better off that someone without a degree? I mean honestly, I can't imagine who would get a job and then just decide not to show up on any given day just because they don't want to, as if the employer can't do anything about that.
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>>1060498
You clearly don't know any of the delusionals who inhabit liberal arts departments these days. They might not show up, with no warning, to go to Burning Man. Or because they "need a day to recharge".
>>
How is this anything everybody with a brain didn't already know?
The point of college nowadays is networking and easier access to internships/co-ops.

If you come out of a 4-year school with nothing but a degree you wasted a lot of time and money.
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>>1060479
Oi Vey, we have ourselves a moron. 25% of ALL Americans. That include young. You do understand that there are more boomers than Millennials?
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>>1060424
Maybe if you live in a fly-over state.
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Had a few interviews and I am looking just for a good stable 40k job for then next 3-4 yrs as I shoot for my masters.
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>>1059974
Jesus you are fucking retarded aren't you.
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>>1059821

Maybe the reason they're not making any money is because they're not willing to invest in their most important assets, employees. Seriously, it's as though they are running these companies on 3 month projections, and wonder why it's shit within 5 years.
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>>1059859

Thing is, you're not going to get a really high GPA if you don't have soft skills, at least in arts here (NZ). Autist knowitalls usually hover around a B-average, and you can just tell what they are in anything they write.
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>>1059793
>>Meanwhile, soft skills, such as being personable, adaptable, possessing strong digital skills, and adept at time management are being increasingly valued.
Translation: The employees shouldn't make a division between home and work at all.
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>>1059839
It depends.

First of all, a lot of programs could have stayed at vocational schools and colleges.

Second, a lot of old uni programs have fallen into cesspools of ressentiment.

If I sat at an HR department I would look for applicants that did something extra. Something different. In any kind of way. An applicant that got good degrees but nothing special BUT did clay sculpture for a few years in some art club gets a plus. Some STEM-student that built a practical application despite it wasn't required gets a plus too.

>>1059857
True. I might as well start a business of my own and look for the few that got that extra thing.

>>1059859
>Soft skills are infinitely more important.
Because middle management went to the chopping block.
>>
spoilers: they'll still prefer people with degrees AND soft skills, especially if they have alum connections or come from a school with a good reputation in that field

they're just saying having a degree signals nothing by itself - it's the MBA and JD dilution trend flowing downhill
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>>1060364
never let your education interfere with youre learning - albert einstein
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3.3 GPA is fucking piss easy to get, you guys need to chill the fuck out, I got an internship at EY with a 3.40
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>>1060340
To a braindead HR rep, anything they cant adequately explain with their limited vocabulary is a soft skill. I had a phone interview where the HR screener implied python is a soft skill and I almost hung up on her because it was so stupid.
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>>1059810
^ this guy gets it.
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>>1059821
>Most companies have been operating a net-neutral budget for years
haha. No. Its either really downhil, or really uphill.
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>>1060024
How many shekels did it take to get a PhD in physics. Thats what my physics teacher told me to do... I could never afford it so Im a code monkey now.
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>>1059793
>EY dropping degrees
They still look at your GPA/2.1 degree without thinking. I think they finally realised that they were getting the exact same type of candidate/graduate - one from an upper-middle class background that goes into the profession because of the prestige and not because it is what they want to do.
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>>1060735
No you're the moron. Amongst the young cohort the percentage is skewed higher. Among the older one its skewed lower. Consider a helium bag exit.
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>>1061567
Seems like a problem with new generations that don't want to work. I came from humble backgrounds I don't know if that was the reason I got in.
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>>1059864
Nice! Keep it up man!
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>>1061572
Don't know. I am generalising here so take it with a grain of salt. Most of the new kids I have seen in the Big 4 and investment banks come from the upper-middle class and offer absolutely nothing to the company. They simply don't know how to think. Don't get me wrong, I think they are intelligent kids but something about them was off. If I were the HR I'd rather take the kid with meaningful part-time work experience but low GPA/degree.
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>>1061572
Hi grandpa.

Are you fucking blind? Millennials work just as hard as Gen Xers, and harder than boomers who do fuckall and get to rake in cash for being "experienced".
>>
corporations should set up their own sperm banks, and stock them with the sperm of their best workers
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>>1061747
LOL, you want corporate management to think beyond the next quarter?
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>>1060742

Nope it's true everywhere you go, and most people in trades are stupid is as fuck when it comes to money and they spend like the money is never gonna end. The day eventually comes when their bodies give out on them and they have little to nothing in their savings, typical tradie retirement ends up with them living on government handouts and food stamps.
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>>1061566
Not him, but technically most every PhD save for a few schools and/or professional fields, should be fully funded (stipend, tuition remission, health insurance subsidy, books & supplies honorarium, etc.). If you can't get funding for your PhD, you're either in a field that doesn't offer such things or you're a bad candidate. There is no reason to pay for graduate school beyond the Master's level, and even then if you did well enough in your undergrad, quite a few Masters degrees are funded as well.

Some fields though are notorious for lack of funding, such as business, law, and medicine, which are tied closely to professional degrees (MBA, JD, MD).
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>>1063126
But tradespeople who also own their own business? They gotta be accountants too, right?

>>1061735
Thing is that the work input and the payoff are two different things. If gramps back in the days inserted 2 coins into a vending machine and recieved 2 candies, then he's at fault if he thinks that kids today that recieve 1 candy only inserted 1 coin.

In a way, gramps subscribes to the soviet theory of labor. Doubly ironic if you consider that he if anyone only used Marx as an insult and believed he was BFF with Lenin and Stalin...
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>>1059870
He was being sarcastic, you autistic fool.
>>
Let me say I work in a factory and we have college grads come in all the time. Fucking 2-4 year degree coming in and tracking orders from me. A high school drop out. And ya know I swear i can actually tell who went to college. There the smartest idiots ive ever seen. Know all about hour it SHOULD be but not how it really is our how to do it. We actually got a guy here with a 4 year degree in robotics. Total retard. While do hates him. And our expert we pay 32$ an hour to. Not done much as half s year of college under his belt.
>>
>>1063183
Somewhat related to a thought I had.

I'm a college graduate--associates and bachelors, which are basically a plus +1 to +2 over a high school diploma. I had the opportunity for union work years ago in Ohio--Miller Brewing (before MillerCoors) and a smaller company called Pacific Manufacturing as well a small steel company. Anyway, I kind of regret not going into it honestly. The pay (last time I checked) was like 27 or more dollars to start at MillerCoors. Obviously union dues downsizes that, but it's more than a livable wage realistically.

Plus housing and living in Ohio (depending upon where) can be VERY affordable. I'm talking a modest, quality home for a single man would be 60k in the right town. A non-model, craftsman built house from the 50s that's well cared for and maintained with all basic amenities and maybe a little more.

Anyway, I have mixed feelings about the whole college thing. When I started college in 2005, things were different economically and ideologically. I think one could still rise above their station and socioeconomic class with a college education then, but more likely with a post-baccalaureate education. Nowadays I'm not so certain. I'm happy I finished college..not particularly happy I went to be frank or where I went. If I had to do it over again, I would have seriously gone to a more conservative school hell maybe even a religious school for that matter.

So many college kids were and are empty-headed. It's an enclosed, bubble world. I majored in English, a so-called notoriously unemployable degree, but I'm doing alright.

Honestly, I think having good credit, a bachelor's degree from a regionally accredited school, no criminal background, decent social skills, no mental/social deficiencies, and somewhat regular work history is enough to get a job that pays a livable wage even if it's not the world's best job.

I still am uncertain about exactly what I want to do work, grad etc. I'll see though.
>>
>>1061570
Thanks for having my back anon =]
>>
>>1063159

>But tradespeople who also own their own business? They gotta be accountants too, right?

Most will never be business owners, just because you have the knowledge and skills doesn't mean you have the acumen to run a business. And no just because you know a bit of bookkeeping doesn't make you an accountant.
>>
>>1059888
>better computer skills than 95% of population
holy shit.
Im a student and work in a copy store.
You would not believe how many people are helpless when you tell them to check their email.
>>
>>1059850

>"Be positively oriented" "Be a team player" "Willing to provide your best results"

This shit means "Be a likable person" pretty much. But since those HR cunts have no actual way to test whether you will act likable when they hire you, they will just hire you based upon your looks:the more trustworthy, pleasant and, most importantly, good looking you look, the more likely they will hire you, even if the job doesn't even fucking require you to communicate with clients or be "likable". You will have a better chance of getting hired if you are a some mentally retarded sub-80 IQ handsome jock (that obviously gets the HR cunts wet), than to be a person that actually knows any of the shit.
>>
>>1059839
*tell-tale
You got me
>>
>>1059793
>not just when you feel like, that it’s about taking direction, and basic things like you’ve got to be well presented and you’ve got to be pleasant

>3 years later, sex and minority discrimination claims skyrocket
>>
>>1063921
Welcome to half the reason the economy's fucking wrecked.
>>
So im in England and i got 2 uni offers to either do marketing and management or international tourism management, the latter requires zero fucking a level qualifications, basically straight C's which is what i got already

Should i bother with any of this or carry on with my shitty retail job at cashgen? Ive been trained in working with cashing cheques and i can do pretty much any western union transactions, think i should get a job at a bank or something?
I have no clue what to do with my life, i genuinely just wanna make money, i have no real skills apart from communication since i speak 4 languages and working on computers
>>
>>1059823

I don't know anything about colleges, what's the difference between for-profit and non-profit (other than the obvious)? I thought all of them were for-profit. Or are you guys talking about Europe?
>>
So give me a link to apply to these companies without a degree then.
>>
>>1065368
For-profit. Think ITT Tech, DeVry, Phoenix, Kaplan, etc.
Not-for-profit. Think Harvard, California Institute of Technology, The Ohio State University, Oberlin College, etc.

If you're completely unfamiliar with colleges and universities, here's the basic difference between the two categories of for-profit and not-for-profit. For-Profit schools are always nationally accredited and are very rarely regionally accredited. Not-for-profit schools are never nationally accredited and are always regionally accredited.

Also, telltale differences include television advertisements. Harvard doesn't have to advertise they have so much brand recognition. Some legitimate universities and colleges will advertise during various sporting events. There's a way to spot the difference between those universities which are legitimate and those that are not in terms of TV advertisement. I really won't go into it too much the explanation is lengthy and I'm posting from my phone. But here's the gist. Legitimate not-for-profit universities have things like dormitories, Greek Life, college athletics, clubs and extracurricular stuff and cater to all students but primarily focus on traditional students (18-24). For-profit schools don't have these things. They're career-oriented schools hovering near the trades. They also have cheesy advertisements and make promises.

I could go on but posting from my phone is annoying. Hope this helps.
>>
>>1065259
Take one of the uni offers. People who don't go to uni are perceived as pleb-tier unless you want to do trade work like plumbing or w/e.

Notice what the OP's article is saying, not that degrees are worthless but that they're dropping them for feel good SJW reasons, "opening up opportunity to the disadvantaged" and similar crap. Two or three companies having a few more non-uni grads a year isn't a trend you can bank on, it's PR bullshit for the left wing media. The vast majority of employers do care, and you'll be left doing menial work without one.

Again, unless you want to learn a trade. But even that requires learning. You have to gain skills somehow.
>>
>>1063680
>Most will never be business owners, just because you have the knowledge and skills doesn't mean you have the acumen to run a business. And no just because you know a bit of bookkeeping doesn't make you an accountant.
I meant business owner that has practical accounting skills.
>>
>>1065544
Yep - do NOT get sucked into a for profit college, google the lies they tell applicants, the debt they saddle people with and the low quality of the degrees they provide.

A local community college is far cheaper and better for you.
>>
>>1065555

Quads prove the truth
>>
>>1065544
>>1065555
>Tfw no private Universities in Canada
>Tfw ~$7k/yr tuition for them all(almost, a few are more)

Feels good, senpai.
>>
>>1065561
>no private universities

lolwut there's like 15
>>
>>1065563
No there isn't senpai. Which?

Only private meme colleges whose diplomas are worth less than toilet paper and cost even more than universities exist.

Everest or whatever
>>
>>1065561
A private university and a public university are different from a for-profit and not-for-profit school. Private universities are merely universities which have a private endowment and receive a great deal of funding from donors, benefactors, and the largess of alumni. This does not mean to say that they do not receive any federal, state, county, or local funding, which they can do and do. They also have something that sets apart in terms of distinction as vague as that sounds. Catholic University of America is a private school, and happens to be a Catholic Pontifical University. Swarthmore College, also private, while formerly associated with the Quakers/Society of Friends, is non-sectarian in terms of affiliation. Brandeis University had affiliation with reform Judaism but is now non-sectarian as well.

For instance, the aforementioned Harvard and Oberlin I know for a fact are private universities and are not-for-profit. Johns Hopkins is also a private, not-for-profit.

What the distinction is in Canada, I'm not sure. I do know there are some Canadians private universities (Fairleigh Dickinson, Crandall, Kingswood).

Hope this helps.
>>
>>1065573
Other than Fairleigh Dickinson, Crandall, and Kingswood, there appears to be Quest, Trinity Western, University Canada West, Booth, Canadian Mennonite, St. Stephen's, Fredericton, Atlantic School of Theology, Tyndale, and Reedemer.
>>
Connections > Experience > Ability to work with others > Formal education

Been that way since the dawn of time.
>>
>>1065582
I don't get why anyone would donate to their school
You paid (overpaid) to be there
I hope my school calls and asks for a donation or something so I can tell them to fuck off
>>
>>1065582
>What the distinction is in Canada, I'm not sure. I do know there are some Canadians private universities (Fairleigh Dickinson, Crandall, Kingswood).

Makes sense.

I was just saying that a huge difference many don't realize is that some of the BEST schools in the US, and even the world are Private, in Canada it's much different and those private ones have jacked up prices and are literally scams. - With none to negative reputation(for being dumb enough to fall for a scam I think most employers would be unhappy to see that).
>>
>>1065649
That's fair, and I would totally agree. McGill, Toronto, Western, Queen's, York, Dahlhousie, UBC, etc. strike me as infinitely better than any private university in Canada.
>>
>>1065701
Yup.

Was just saying how it's weird that Private Universities in the US are among the best by far in the world and yet in Canada they are scams with no credibility.
>>
>>1061518
I would personally look for numales because they are easy to manipulate.
>>
>>1059868
>"Robotics Engineer"
>not using real terms

Wannabe high schooler who doesn't know jack shit detected

>there's no place for you in automation engineering without a master's

Get the fuck out of here
>>
>>1059793

The college degree occupies a precarious space in today's job market.

Employers want you to have one, but they don't think having one qualifies you to any job.
>>
>>1065706
True. There are some exceptions in America. Certainly schools like Stanford, Chicago, Yale, Harvard, Brown, Dartmouth, Penn, Cornell (partially public), Columbia, NYU, etc. are cream of the crop, but schools like Texas, Michigan, UC schools, etc. are no slouch either. But yeah, private schools elsewhere definitely vary in quality.
>>
This is bullshit, at least in Europe. The most coveted jobs are the management traineeships (rotate through the company every half year for 2 years) and this is where they get their future leaders. You need a Master's degree and a maximum of 2 years of working experience. Your extracurriculars are very important, though.
>>
>>1065784
Tbh though in many countries in Europe a degree is entirely useless. You'd be far better off starting a business, usually an internet-based one.

In many countries in Eastern Europe for example engineers make jackshit whereas even making $2k/month from some internet meme freelancing is above average engineer salary.

Seems to be only in North America where you graduate STEM and are pretty much made when it comes to life, making $60-80k within a few years nearly guaranteed.(with effort put in of course)
>>
>>1059868
> robotics engineer
kek

Second year mechatronics student here, I've been to a Bosch factory today and I can confirm that some ''higher'' bachelors can get jobs in automation. (mine is 4 years)
>>
>>1065644
So that when your kid applies to Harvard they'll see the $1,000,000 donation you've been making every couple of years, so they'll be more generous in evaluating the kid because they hope s/he'll do the same thing.
>>
Colleges don't teach skills, especially if you were dumb enough to get a degree that wasn't in STEM or a business degree from a non-minor school. An English major is going to end up doing administrative work in an office, never putting the degree to use, so why not just hire someone who spent four years learning how to use SAP on the job instead?

The idea that a Big 4 accounting firm would seriously hire someone without a university degree in accounting is laughable though.
>>
>>1059800
Also, entry level jobs are 100% recruited for on campus by the Big 4
>>
>>1066323
Tbh though when everyone has a degree nowadays it's pretty much impossible to get a decent job without one.

It's essentially become the bare minimum, so unless you start a business you're going to be fucked.

>Oh look this anon fella seems quite smart, maybe we can hire him
>Oh but we just got 5 applications from these equally smart-sounding fellas who have degrees from mid to top tier schools
>>
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>>1059868
Nah senpai I know some of the guys who coded the automation software we use at my work and both of them are just turbonerds with no degrees.
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