thinking of going electrical out of highschool, but am not sure yet. Which trades pay the most, and what kind of pay can you expect after 5 years or so?
Heating and cooling is a license to steal.
Think of this... people call you in the middle of the summer when the A/C is out, or call you in the middle of winter when the furnace is out.
If it happens during a cold spell, people wait in line until you can see them (in 2 or 3 days).
When they find someone who can come out same day, they will pay whatever they are charged; they have no choice.
If you're still in high school..
Realize that you don't have to do whatever you go into for your entire life. Us millennials will be living to 100 on average. Realize now that you could spend two years out of high school working a part-time job and trying to start a business, then at 20 go be an electrician for 40 years, and after all of that still have 30 years on average on this planet. I wouldn't do that, but it's an example to show that we will live longer and have more time than even our parents do. Our children will be in a similar situation, living to at least 100 on average, eventually topping off at about 125, naturally.
The point is that you can do whatever you want. We have lots of time. I wouldn't go into a trade because of the health risks. I would go into something related to computers and stay up to date on technology, because it is the future, and we have a long future.
Welding can actually pay very well if you get the right work. The downside is the absolute shit conditions and the fact that is super unhealthy for you.
Electrical is the best paying of the traditional trades followed closely by plumbing.
Once you get past your apprenticeship you can live a good life.
Once you get to master level, you can open your own shop or become a foreman if you go with a big union shop.
Electrical foreman pays about 150k in a union shop in a big metro area.
Median pay is 51k according to BLS which is counting apprentices which are making 15-20$/hr.
For reference my dad is an electrician who only uses his Journeyman's license (he has a master) since the owner of the company uses his Master license on the paperwork. He works in a small shop (8 guys total) in a small town (8,000 people) is non-union, and has been working there for ~15 years.
He makes ~75k/yr. Would easily go to 90k if he went to a union shop in a more populated area without even using his Master license.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Here's a picture based on what I learned working for a college.
Past that, pay means nothing: competition and likelihood at getting in the door is everything. If there's no openings or the job openings have so much competition you might as well be winning the lottery, you're never going to see that money. Irony: the electrical engineer in your post is actually a pretty safe bet while computer techs are working at Starbucks.
In the big union areas, aka DC, New York, California, union electrician pay is dope, $42.50/hr, more if your company likes you and promotes you. Account for 50,60 hrs a weeks, do the math.
Because I didn't think of them at the time. Those would go under "Slim pickings" because, really, there are positions out there but they are in larger cities for the most part and there's a lot of competition with a low turnover rate.
Try finishing your high school at a trade school if you can. Yes, trade schools can get you a diploma and a head start on getting a job. If that's not an option, get yourself down to a trade school and start asking questions. You should be able to get an apprenticeship within a year or two of going there.
I'm in Virginia, too. In fact I used to live out where you do. You should be able to finish out at a trade school. Get your parents permission and go for it!
You're in a good area for electrical, actually. There's a lot of things being built and updated out there. Consider also learning welding on the side. At worst it's a cool hobby that can let you build stuff. At best it's another good reason to hire you!
You don't need anything past algebra and good spatial reasoning.
My dad dropped out of HS and got his GED in his 20's. He dropped out because he "didn't need school" not because he was failing though.
Any type of construction or hands on type class will help. You need to know as much about basic carpentry as a basic carpenter since you will sometimes have to make adjustments.
Oh, I know. My dad didn't want to go union because of the travel. He became an electrician when I was like 5 and I have two older sisters so he didn't want to have to be gone all the time.
If you want to get an apprenticeship though, you need to know someone or you need to go to a trade school.
>At best it's another good reason to hire you!
Good advice. My dad did drywall before he went back to school. Anything that shows you can do a little bit more than another guy is a good selling point.
One of the guys my dad trained in during his apprenticeship had an associates degree in robotics too and he was poached as soon as he finished his apprenticeship to be a maintenance electrician at a local machine shop.
They build the machining machines and have a lot of CNC and robotic equipment. He basically just hooks up and fixes the machines when they break. Never found out what he was offered but from the sounds of it it must have been at least over 80k since their shop wouldn't match it.
Trade school focuses more on how you do at your trade, not your grades. Focus on learning how to do things well so you can get those certifications and you'll be fine. Yes, you will be doing this hands-on in class and not just boring book junk! Trade school is a lot more fun than high school and has a lot of cool options you can try.
The certifications and hands-on experience are everything at a trade school. Grades mean very little if you get the results. Getting an apprenticeship will help a lot, too, so aim for one as soon as you are qualified to get one.
>implying sitting for 8 hours then going to the gym to lift/do cardio is worse than carrying around heavy shit, holding things overheard and crawling around
>Some trades keep you in shape
Like what? It's generally repetitive, uncomfortable work. Even the best ones in this category are not any better than just going to the gym normally.
I can't think of anything, really. Trade schools aren't as picky as a college might be as they're more about results instead of grades. Don't do dumb stuff, don't break the law, and do your best. If you have questions don't be shy to ask for advice from your instructor and don't be scared to take home extra work to practice on. Robotics club might be a good idea, too, for both fun and extra practice!
Forestry is pretty dangerous unless you're actually a forestry researcher. In that case, you're going to have trouble finding work outside of a few colleges like Virginia Tech which actually study forestry via their Wood Science department. My dad actually was in Wood Science at Virginia tech. The turnover is about as slow as a growing tree.
As to logging/lumber forestry, that is very seasonal so even if you don't mind the danger, your income won't b steady. You can also do landscaping, but between electrical work and landscaping, electrical work is better pay and demand wise.
Oh yeah that seems legit.
You know we can just look up the average salaries of welders and see that they make very little right?
And how exactly does caring about your body make you a "pussy"? There's a reason you don't see 60+ year old tradesmen.
>It's generally repetitive, uncomfortable
Implying going to the gym isn't these things.
Work things that you are comfortable doing every single day and that you can find steady work in and you'll be doing fine regardless of physical activity level. People can always work out if they are worried that work is making them fat. I work out at home, actually. Gyms aren't really required even if some people like them.
My foreman is 70 (he is beat to shit tho desu). Why would you aspire to be average? If you build dumpsters in a shop you'll make shit pay. if you build tanks, boilers, pressure pipe etc you pull down a shitload of cash.
Why would I want to build things if I can manage other people to do them for me and never worry about the difficulties of it?
Would you rather be an Engineer earning $120k/yr or managing 30 engineers and earning $5million off their hardwork?
Some people love building things. That's all there is. It takes all types. If it was all chiefs and no injuns, who would the chiefs send out? Yeah, we may end up in that situation some day with robotic injuns, but we're not there yet.
Welding and forestry are more at risk of replacement than electrical engineering right now. He's on the right track for a guy who wants to work with his hands and build your awesome mansion... before retiring to his own if he's smart with money. Tradesmen can get wealthy and managers can be broke. Financial intelligence knows no limits based on trade alone.
>Have fun with your degraded body and destroyed joints in 20 years OP.
That is why you don't go into carpentry and you make sure you keep moving up. If you start a trade out of high school and you aren't a foreman or shop owner by 40, you fucked up somewhere.
Average salaries include people who weld in assembly lines with no certs. Not to mention apprentices make shit for the first 1-2 years.
You also don't see old trademen in the unions because they transition to teaching jobs or desk jobs as they get old, not to mention some unions have an optional early retirement and the pensions are amazing.
My female friend is a union pipefitter. She pulled in 80k last year. She's bro as fuck and loves her job. She plans of doing it for like 5 more years and then becoming one of the union teachers for welding.
Son, who are you kidding? You're not even out of college.
In appropriate weight amounts, with adequate rest.
Doing 3 sets of 5 increasing in weight when you're capable 3 days a week is a lot different than lugging around shit for 8 hours a day 5 days a week.
Carpenter here, went to trade school
If you're going into the trades for strictly getting a big paycheck you're already making a mistake. Theres some people that can do it and have the right type of thinking that make most of this stuff look easy, and some that take years to learn and may not have it in them to hold out long enough and gain the experience.
Go out and find some simple projects to wire up, watch videos of basic residential wiring and look at blueprints and drawings for electrical systems and just get a feel for it. I've been a residential carpenter doing home additions, remodels and some new construction for about 4 years, 2 years of trade school, and 4 years worth of trade classes in high school. I didnt do this because i wanted to make shitloads of money quick and easy, i did it because i was good at it, its different jobs, situations and problems every day to figure it out. I was hanging cement siding and climbing scaffolding all day in 20 degree weather with a couple inches of snow on the ground today and loved it. I also know that I've breathed in some nasty hundred year old dust and debris and enough sawdust and cement/drywall/plaster dust to cough up a 2x4 some days and have taken at least a couple months off my lifespan. I dont remember the last time i could look at my hands and not have at least one cut or scrape that was still healing either, so these jobs do fuck your body up somewhat... but again theres guys in their 70's that are still framing and roofing too.
You have to want to do these kind of jobs or you'll hate yourself and waste time and money when you switch paths, plus you'll give a poor finish product for your company and your customers because you wont give a shit like the other guys that love doing what they do and take pride in their work everyday. I'm not saying you wont, but just make sure before you commit that its what you want to do
Psychology is actually used ina lot of other less obvious ways. For example, high level marketing uses psychologist to help create campaigns, game companies use psychologists to help in designing their games, and every school in the nation has at least one psychologist in staff as your "guidance counselor". There's a lot of work for psych folks even if it's not always obvious stuff.
Well yeah, but there isnt a trade out there that does nothing but stand around and lifts plywood sheets and 2x8's up and down for 8 hours a day just for shits and grins. Laborers and green apprentices arent even given that much shit
My point is that it doesn't "keep you in shape", it's extremely taxing on the body and results in injuries and messed up joints.
The difference between doing squats and deadlifts in a gym versus being a mover lifting heavy shit consistently for hours on end.
Really depends on what you're doing bro.
On the electrical job site there isn't much heavy lifting. Just pools and tool boxes. Neither of which do you carry more than 30 minutes a day.
Only thing that is really annoying is climbing ladders for over head work.
I worked as a loader over a summer in college. I lifted more in a day that I ever did in a summer working as a grunt on the job site.
Masonry and tile setting will kill your joints. Framing and roofing will kill your back.
Electrical, plumbing, and HVAC might be hard your wrist but much less so than a job typing all day, and your knees about as much as a job walking all day.
The only serious injury my dad has ever gotten on a job site was from falling through a ceiling that had been compromised by rot due to water damage. He was back on the job site after a 4 day weekend.
I understand that you're saying specific moves and proper weight lifting form result in less injuries than throwing your back out lifting couches and coffee tables all day, but even landscapers, laborers and ironworkers learn proper form and how to lift the material they work with day to day.
Deadifting masonry block, lumber, steel etc keeps you in just as much shape as doing the same thing with a bar and plates in a gym, its when you dont know how to do it you get fucked up.
You're more likely to mess up joints and have injuries from falling off/through things in trades. Plus OP wants to be an electrician, theres really not a lot of non-electrocution injuries that they'll be likely to get over the years
Well yes but even with proper forming "deadlifting" heavy shit for 45 sets of 5 is a lot different than whatever you'd regularly do with adequate rest.
It just doesn't seem worth it. I was like OP considering trades, doing more research and reading some of the threads about it here I found out the pay really isn't that good mid to long term and if you aren't in a dire situation and are able to go to college you'd be better off for it in the long run.
If you think trade work requires no thinking by brainless idiots then i would be scared shitless sitting in a house or building that was built by them.
Yeah i was kind of the opposite as you actually, i was going to go for architecture or construction management/surveying but it just didnt appeal to me and went to trade school for carpentry instead.
If you're good enough and have some business acumen then theres always the thought of running your own business once you put in the time and experience, nothing beats in the field work for being a general contractor or site supervisor. Plus anyone who's had work done on their own home can attest to the per hour price of labor and service calls that tradesmen are able to charge.
To each their own.
Trades are secure, the pay is good, and some people prefer to do physical work.
Are they the best paying job you can get? No Are they the easiest job to do? No
You can make 100k+/yr in the trades if you work your way up and specialize. Even if you don't you're going to be above 50k in the more technical ones. While /biz/ might like to act like it's not 50k is a very livable wage in most places.
> be me 16 yo
> want a suit job but decide to do electrical due to economy (their weren't many suit jobs out there)
> go to college to get an electrical apprenticeship
>1/2 way through college i get a 16 month coop at a steel mill
>itwasdepressing.exe but made decent money
>they didnt hire me back when i finish college
>i figured i may as well finish the last few months of school
>schools hosting a robotics programming competition
>they hired me and now i make the same money and work a comfortable suit job selling industrial robots
>funny how life works
If communists can understand the principle of limited space/resources, why don't they also understand that the limited resources work on their policies too, which means communism will give every single person (besides the dear leader) scraps to survive?
I'd rather start with an empty glass of water, and making the effort to go fill it up by the river rather than having a mouthful of water in my cup and prevented access from getting more. Hell, in that scenario I'd be more inclined to steal/kill for other people's mouthfuls so I don't feel thirsty.
Anyone who needs 250k+ a year to live is doing it wrong or living somewhere insane like inside of New York City. Really, many people can live cozy at 20k a year as long as they are smart with their money. A small apartment, not going out to eat, not smoking/drinking, and not having cable all really cut costs.
Probably something involving communications. Telecommunications, like computers, is pretty over saturated. He's most likely doing sales or tech support which can get high paying, but starts with bad pay, long hours and tyrant bosses. It's not fun.
my pictures just saying thats how capitalism works im not saying theres anything wrong with it,
i got that job when i was 20 now im 21 and renting out a house to three families and in the next year i expect to have paid it off
>paid off house at 22
>working comfortable suit job
>years of community college
>capitalism is working really good for me