Hey, /biz/ Explain to me how 'removing regressive healthcare'

>>1049655
Woops, forgot to say please, sorry

Because a politician said so. Why would he lie?

>>1049666
Well what is meant by regressive healthcare?
And how does a single-payer system cost less?
It seems to me Sanders' researcher didn't factor in how much medical developments cost that drives the price as high as it is

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>>1049655
>feel
>the
>bern

>>1049667
>And how does a single-payer system cost less?
Idk but every other first world country on the planey does it and spends less than we do, probably has something to do with the buying power of the government and cutting out jew kike middlemen insurance companies

you could, idk maybe read his proposal?

https://berniesanders.com/news-medicare-for-all/

>>1049655

Free bump. I've never heard the term "regressive healthcare" either and I work in the industry.

The only thing I can think that it refers to is the cost of care that a compliant patient has after being treated. It may just be one of those terms a politician made up that has no meaning and only serves as a talking point their supporters parrot - if it gets repeated enough that doing this can save money it becomes true.

>>1049655
As being an evil corporation, I'm an orchard-owner, I'm afraid that all of my agriculture related tax breaks would lifted to fund the proposed socialist hellhole of the parasites. They'll get their $15 an hour when food and ever other good shoots through the roof.

>>1049846
>spends less than we do

Can we please stop this meme

The US spends about the same amount on its healthcare and military as a percentage of GDP as almost every other country.

We have 350 million people and the largest economy in the world and the best healthcare in the world.

Saying that we spend more per person as a negative shows that you're fucking retarded and do not understand why we do that.

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So this is not a joke.

Obamacare is such a fuck up -- such an indiscriminate profit feeder to pharmaceutical companies and hospitals, that literal buttfucking single payer healthcare WOULD in fact be cheaper.

That still doesn't make single payer healthcare a good idea, and it would decrease the quality of healthcare globally if the US pursued that option the way Bernie wants to.

There is ALWAYS going to need to be private healthcare if we want medical research to continue increasing in velocity.

>>1049856
The US healthcare industry is still rife with regulatory capture and either explicit or indirect subsidies from the US government. Neither of these things are a positive, and almost anything would be an improvement.
>but not Bernie's retard reasoning

>>1049858

The single biggest issue with Obamacare is dealing with non-compliant patients, it is bringing counties to the brink of bankruptcy all over the country.

Wait, how does private healthcare cost the government money? Unless we're talking about obamacare?

does the US subsidize private healthcare anyway?

>>1049869

I agree, it needs a lot of fixes, some realistic and some are unrealistic expectations.

The system has been set up in a way by the federal government to butt fuck the consumer.

The idea that fixing a government problem with more government is like making a perpetual motion dragon dildo to fuck you in the ass.

>>1049872

Insurance collectives are subsidized.

>>1049870
I think the issue with Obamacare is that he allowed a few cunt women (yes, you really can blame everything wrong with Obamacare on faggot liberal females like Nancy-Ann DeParle) to completely usurp the financially responsible planners on his staff who actually had pretty decent Massachusetts-era Romney-esque ideas on how to keep the taxpayer's healthcare costs down.

As if Obama's wanton idealism wasn't bad enough, he only listened to the people on his staff who shared his utter blindness toward fiscal concerns.

>>1049877

Yeah, I agree. Many parts of the ACA seem to have been devised by people who not only have never worked in healthcare, but have never even worked for a business in the private sector.

I'm sure their idea was to turn the US into Canada or whatever and increase taxes to cover it. It seems like common sense that most people in the US want to be doctors and nurses for the money and they are destroying those margins.

>>1049655
Let me break it down for you

Ideally paying only the government jews (Bernie's system) for healthcare is better than paying the government subsidies, the insurance jews and THEN the hospital jews (current situation)

however the devil is always in the details

>>1049901
Bernie's method only works from a financial perspective because Obamacare is unusually expensive.

They are BOTH shit options.

>>1049905
Before obamacare was more shit, buddy

if you were part-time or self-employed insurance would fuck you in the ass. if you had a preexisting condition you were straight fucked

>>1049911
It was more exploitative, but not nearly as expensive.

Obamacare (through really minimal interaction with Obama himself) took something from both worlds. Pharmaceutical firms, medical device manufacturers, and hospitals get to make a killing. Insurance companies get to get fucked with their already thin margins because now they have to indiscriminately pay for everyone in the country (why even call it insurance at that point?), and people on the margin between full Medicare and full private insurance have to pay gigantic deductibles because Obama's faggot staff was too delusional to actually enforce the policies that would have fixed that.

They just decided to give handouts to the nice, friendly pharmaceutical companies instead in the form of unlimited taxpayer funds at ANY prices you can dream of.

Do rich yuropoors even have access to nice private hospitals?

>>1049901

>Let me break it down for you

>however the devil is always in the details

hurp

>>1049932
>however the devil is always in the details
because it is

the healthcare industry is a complicated clusterfuck

>>1049930
Several "nice" hspitals in Dallas have failed. They catered to the super-affluent but couldn't generate the revenue to maintain all their capital needs. Kaboom.

The big deal now is the advent of "emergency room" in - a- box. They pick affluent neighborhoods and don't take medicare or medicaid. They need 6 patients a day to break even they say. So, your ingrown toe nail treatment will be about $6,000.

>>1049954
The best hospitals in the world aren't ones like that. It's the university hospitals like New York Presbyterian (essentially public funded and they keep all the profits)

>>1049914

Not to mention that thanks to Obamacare, you only really need to keep your insurance current for 9 months out of the year, as seen here:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/gaming-obamacare-insurance-health-care-217598

Not to mention that because people don't shop around, premiums will continue to increase for the foreseeable future, not to mention balance billing, where if you get treated out of network for something, you are fucked with no federal limit to how much that will be.

gg no re

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>>1049980
I only get one healthcare option from my company.

The scary part is that even that single, non-competitive option is actually immensely superior to what poorfags get on the Obamacare marketplace both in cost and in coverage.

>my deductibles and premiums still go up every fucking year thanks to Obama

>>1049974
I agree. I'm just reporting that "nice" hospitals (meaning not being a charity county hospital) aren't bringing in the expected "white flight" to them they thought they wood.

>>1049954

We had one of those emergency room only care centers open in my city.

Guy from work cut hits hand with a box cutter went there.

They tried to charge him 6k for 5 stitches

He raised hell and they finally reduced it to $450.00 even.

They did immediately fix him up when he got there though with zero wait

The place is always empty when I drive by. Doubt it will still be open in two more years.

It does prove that there is a price point that people would rather put up with a slow emergency room full of Mexicans than go with fast private care

I just want to throw a platitude out there to get people thinking about why healthcare is a bitch: it's the one industry on earth in which no price is too high. People will pay ANYTHING to stay alive. It takes advantage of the most primal instinct we have as humans.

Imagine what that looks like when the government 100% subsidizes healthcare. Fuck, we're already halfway there, the way prices are skyrocketing. Insurance is just a barrier and a scapegoat so people don't see who's really making the profits.

>>1049983

In my experience of looking around, I find that most employer plans are about the equivalent to Gold/Platinum plans on the exchanges.

As for your employer's plan...about that...

So, to pay for this clusterfuck of a health law, Obama implemented what's known as the Cadillac Tax, which from how I understand it, is a penalty for employers having better plans than the populace. The way it works is that companies are now incentivized to lower the quality of their health insurance options, or be faced with a tax of around 40%, which goes up yearly.

The naive theory is that with these cost cutting measures, the company now has more money to throw around, which means a bigger paycheck for you.

The real fact is that let's say for example, your job's savings have caused you to earn an extra $600 a year. Sounds good, right? Now, because of these cost savings, that means your deductible goes up, which, in our example has now ballooned to $3000. Guess who's fucked over now?

The more optimistic news is that they haven't pushed this out yet, which means that the earliest you may hear or see of this is in 2020 as opposed to 2018, per the original plan.

If this interests you, I have some recommended reading - it's a website that details how much of a clusterfuck it will have proven to be.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/06/obamacares-relentless-creation-of-second-class-citizens.html

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/06/obamacares-relentless-creation-of-second-class-citizens-2.html

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/07/obamacares-relentless-creation-of-second-class-citizens-3.html

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/07/obamacares-relentless-creation-of-second-class-citizens-4.html

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/08/obamacares-relentless-creation-of-second-class-citizens-5.html

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/08/obamacares-relentless-creation-of-second-class-citizens-6.html

>>1049988

Honestly it should be a serious crime to go to the emergency room with a non emergency. Who knows how many people have died because of these idiots. Im amazed nobody has done anything about this yet really.

>>1050000
I'm already aware. I'm hoping something gives out before we make it that far.

There are a lot of better solutions than what Obama ended up settling on. Even his own team knew they could have done better... except for the ladies that ran CMS, Department of Health, etc. whatever

>>1050012

Awesome. I tried to tell this to my gf at the time and this thing, which has the potential to screw over a lot of people was met with a "Why should you care?"

>>1050009

When my mother was dying, the entire emergency room was completely full of mexicans and dindus and none of them looked sick at all.

Meanwhile, my mother was completely yellow because her liver was hours from shutting down.

Thank god that there was someone competent working there and she immediately took my mother to the ER care area and got the doctors to look at her.

I asked the doctor about it and she said 90% of those people out there can't speak English and they bring their kids in just because the kid has a fever and threw up and they just give 90% of them advil and pedialite and send them home.

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>>1050031
Even a fucking liberal from Time Magazine who was actively trying to peddle Obamacare couldn't make it sound good.

>>1049655

I agree with Bernie that the top has gotten way too heavy while the masses languish, but IDK if these plans he has could ever work.

At least Hilary has a grasp of business and realizes that their must be balance.

>>1050041

How is that book?

>>1049856
Heh, you're funny. Per the WHO, the US is 37th on the list (36 is Costa Rica, 38 is Slovenia.)

Per that ultra-liberal publication Forbes (sarcasm,) citing the Commonwealth Fund, the US is 10th in a list of the top 10 industrial nations.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/danmunro/2014/06/16/u-s-healthcare-ranked-dead-last-compared-to-10-other-countries/#2715e4857a0b7f175da41b96

>>1049901
This anon has it right. Every extra layer between patient and doctor is extra cost. That's how shit like $85,000 for four vials of antivenin is possible ($14 to make it, $100 to export it, sell it to a hospital for $2,300, then the hospital charges $14,000 for it.)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/09/09/the-crazy-reason-it-costs-14000-to-treat-a-snakebite-with-14-medicine/

In the end, single payer wins because the government won't put up with $14,000 for a $14 bottle of injectables. A single Viagra tablet retails for just over $40 at a pharmacy. That same tablet under script insurance could run $50, with $15 covered by the patient and the rest by the insurer. The Department of Defense pays just $2.90/tab for the V, and the VA pays only $3. Why the difference? Because Pfizer doesn't want to lose those lucrative, guaranteed contracts.

>>1049655
honestly, after seeing the people who post shit about bernie on facebook I realized people just want him to win so they dont have to get jobs. people are willing to rationalize it any way to disguise the fact that really they just want to not have to work and be guaranteed a comfortable lifestyle of a 20 hour a week job and living off the gub'miint

so bernies camp can post this stupid bullshit rationalize his plan and his supporters wont scrutinize it any way

>>1049856
>Saying that we spend more per person as a negative shows that you're fucking retarded and do not understand why we do that.

Bo its shows im a healthcare worker. Try to fudge the numbers any way you want (hint : r&d isnt included) , inflation , cpi , we spend more for less

And under no ones crazed illusion do we have the worlds best healthcare . Were not even top 30 for infant mortality

We spend more. For less. Being a large country doesnt mean shit except maybe in some states the ambulance tide wouldnt be free (luke certain provinces in canada)

Literally google it "us healthcare rankings"

"Healthcare expenditure per country"

% of gdp is a joke since those other countries (with lower gdp's) somehow manage to cover every citizen for less than we pay to NOT do so

>>1050150
>people are willing to rationalize it any way to disguise the fact that really they just want to not have to work and be guaranteed a comfortable lifestyle of a 20 hour a week job
So? It's possible

>>1049998
Are you retarded? Do you think the dozens of countries in the world that have universal healthcare pay a million dollars per heart attack?

>>1049856
>Best x in the world
This is the real meme. Come on, you don't think other countries can match our health system? Maybe they don't have as much research for new cures, but that only helps a very small portion of the population and doesn't explain why it costs so much more for basic meds and procedures here than other 1st world countries.

>>1050191
>Were not even top 30 for infant mortality

The differences between those countries are not statistically significant. It's a meme list that has no validity.

That image is so disingenuous that I'm sorry to say I'm not surprised a Jew is pushing this.

>>1049846
They also no longer develop shit in terms of drugs or treatments. Why do the leaders of these nations with 'better' health care always seem to come over here for treatment? Nothing drives innovation like competition.

>>1049885
That pretty much sums up everything wrong with government control. We put important things in the hands of those that would fail in the real world, because there is no accountability, no real budgeting, and no risk of getting fired. In short, federal employment is just another form of welfare. The money would be better sent to private industries as grants to develop and devise new strategies and solutions.

>>1049930
Yeah, in America where they all come for treatment.

>>1049943
No, government regulation of the healthcare industry is a cluster fuck. Kind of like how college prices went up lock step with federal funding and intervention. Administrators knew that they would get paid whatever they asked for guaranteed - so what happened, over the next few decades prices increased 10% per year. What also increased? The amount of worthless overhead these colleges have taken on to prove that they are spending the money wisely. Who got screwed, pretty much everyone who went to college after 1985 and had to pay for feelings advisers.

>>1050410

Except for companies not really investing in R&D anymore. Just easier to use one's market position and pocket the money instead.

>>1050341
Yes, because the difference between 1.82/1k and 5.87/1k is insignificant. What fucking world do you live on where 322% is "insignificant?"