>>1047860 if you don't know anyone in the industry you either won't get a job at all, or will only have shit tier contract positions available to you that have no benefits and pay like 40k per year. at that point you're much better off going into trades since you'll make roughly the same and it's a union job.
>>1048038 >for trades knowing someone is as simple as talking to your parent's plumber.
And you think that has less of a barrier of entry than STEM?
Explain to me why your parent's plumber would just take on some random kid when there's thousands of kids like that and why he would pay you a premium wage to teach you to work so that you can eventually quit and then give him competition? It makes no sense.
>>1048056 >All the facts and real life things you know are just lying to u!
Yes it's anecdotal but when you only know people who majored in social science who complain about tuition costs and unable to find a job it's pretty telling. I'm sure most people here can agree, although it is anecdotal.
>>1047865 >if you don't know anyone in the industry you either won't get a job at all Well. If you graduate from a shit tier universitty with shitty grades that´s for sure. Otherwise dont put others at the same level of loser than you.
>>1048142 >Explain to me why your parent's plumber would just take on some random kid when there's thousands of kids like that and why he would pay you a premium wage to teach you to work so that you can eventually quit and then give him competition?
When plumbers and other tradies do apprenticeships they are often paid below minimum wage (in cash) and they typically do all the shit work that none of the actual tradies want to do. Also, in Australia employers receive payment to make apprenticeships. If the business is a good one and the co workers are friendly then the apprentice will normally stick around anyway. But, if they leave and join another business it will take them until they are like 35 to have the capital saved up to buy or build their own.
>>1048245 >I did food service for $10/hr with good health insurance and landscaping for $11/hr with free equipment rentals. Landscaping had 1/10th the bullshit and a free gym and tanning salon membership.
Wow free gym membership worth approximately $300-500/year? Wow Tanning salon to get cancer?
Yeah seems great to have those jobs that have no future at all for such a measly pay and such "stupendous" benefits.
>>1048231 >>1048267 I have literally seen ad postings for welders, tool and dye makers, etc with over a couple years experience for no more than $30/hr(at best, and that has a page long list of responsibilities and "experiences with").
>>1048254 If I would have stuck around either job I would have moved to manager or foreman which paid $6/hr more. The manager at my food service job quit with no notice 6 months after I left. The landscaping job is in desperate need of reliable foremen the owner can trust for next season.
34k/yr with 1 year experience with 0 formal education in a field is good. Better than putting down 80k to make 40k/yr starting out. -80k in net worth is a big hole to dig out of.
They're employee wages. Union members also get free health insurance through the union. There's also an employer paid defined benefit pension plan with full retirement after 30 years of service. Those benefits are in addition to the hourly wages listed.
Also, if you look at the tables linked, the fringe benefits are listed separate from the wages. So, as an example, let's say I'm an elevator constructor in Cook County Illinois.
The table shows my base rate as 50.80. That's for 8 hours a day. M-F over 8 hours I get time and a half. See the columns marked OSA and OSH? That's "Overtime Saturday" and "Overtime Sunday/Holiday". Those pay double time.
In addition, my employer pays 13.57 into the Health & Welfare fund (health insurance). I pay nothing for this insurance. The union provides it to me funded by employer contributions.
My employer also contributes 14.21 per hour into the pension fund on my behalf.
So, given that it is fairly standard for trades to work 50 hour weeks, I can expect to get 40 regular hours at 50.80, plus 10 OT hours at either 1.5x (M-F) or 2.0x (Sa-Su). That's $2794-$3048 for one full weeks work. Plus a pension and health insurance.
All the other trades have their rates spelled out as well. Almost every union local in America posts their rates and fringes online. Look them up.
These guys acting like tradesmen don't make any money don't actually know any tradesmen.
these threads are the new /biz/ cancer >/r9k/ graduates never having gone to a single career fair, done a single internship, with a 2.2 GPA >goes to post about it on /biz/ of all places >MUH "MUH STEM SHORTAGE"
i have trouble tying my shoes and I landed an $73k job upon graduation
>>1049003 the wording isn't the issue who cares if you even break six figures if you're working 60 hours AND weekends doing backbreaking labor in terrible environments 40 hours is already all the daylight hours of a day
1) most trades in non-desolate areas pay very little except union positions and ones that require decades of experience 2) physical labor - it's fun to crawl around on your knees in your 20's, but what about when you're 40+ and your body cannot take the abuse anymore? 3) working 60 hours a week, doing physical labor. No thanks
It's in response to the "I like working with my hands xD" crew.
But when you're 40+ with arthritis and lower back problems they may think a lot differently. At that point you come to a problem. - On one hand you're too young to retire or die, on the other hand you're too old to keep doing that shit.
I won't argue the physical toll it takes, no doubt. But do you honestly think these STEM positions paying $80k+ don't require overtime? Nobody that is successful works <=40 hour weeks.
I got and hindering degree because I didn't want to have to crawl around on my knees in my 40s. I now have a lot of these tradesmen working under me. For a long time early in my career, they made more than I did. They don't anymore, but that was the trade off for not having to break my back.
The point is, there are ways to earn a solid middle class living that don't require going to college. They do require hard work, long hours, and uncomfortable working conditions.
>>1049016 >most trades in non-desolate areas pay very little except union positions and ones that require decades of experience
You keep saying this, but repeating it doesn't make it true. The wage scales linked above cover Syracuse/Buffalo/Rochester/Albany NY, the greater NYC/North Jersey area, and Chicago Illinois. Not exactly desolate areas. And the Payscale average of $28+ would seem to indicate one of two things:
Either you're wrong and there are a shit ton of operator positions paying 28/hr
All of the bulldozer operators in America make $10/hr like you say, except for a couple guys in Northern Alaska pulling down $6250/hr and ruining the average.
Also, decades of experience doesn't matter. Nobody pays more for a bricklayer with 30 years service vs 15. Once you get out of the apprenticeship program, you make what you make. Payscale's description backs that up.
>For the first five to ten years in this position, wages increase modestly, but any additional experience does not have a big effect on pay.
You clearly just believe that a Bachelors Degree in a STEM field is the only way to earn a decent living, even though the facts say otherwise. It is one way, for sure, but not the only way.
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