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>over a million graduates a year
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You are currently reading a thread in /biz/ - Business & Finance

Thread replies: 55
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>over a million graduates a year
>a few thousands of job openings a year
>muh "STEM shortage"
>>
>>1047860
if you don't know anyone in the industry you either won't get a job at all, or will only have shit tier contract positions available to you that have no benefits and pay like 40k per year. at that point you're much better off going into trades since you'll make roughly the same and it's a union job.
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>>1047860
Not all STEM positions are created equal
>>
It's actual a STEM oversaturation in USA. When "they" say there is a STEM shortage, they actually mean a shortage of H1B visas for foreign workers who will work less than domestic workers.
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>>1047860
>>over a million graduates a year
>>a few thousands of job openings a year
>>muh "STEM shortage"

Uhh I don't think that's true.

Most STEM fields have high starting/average salaries like $60k+ and <5% unemployment rate.

In fact in real life I've never heard of a STEM major who actually applied/studied that couldn't find a job.
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>>1047892
also the education industry wants your money
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>>1047865
>at that point you're much better off going into trades since you'll make roughly the same and it's a union job.

"if you don't know anyone in the industry you either won't get a job at all, or will only have shit tier contract positions available to you that have no benefits and pay like 40k per year"

- How exactly is it not the exact same, if not worse for trades?
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>>1047899
trades have the job corps. also, for trades knowing someone is as simple as talking to your parent's plumber.
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>>1047895
>what is anecdotal evidence
>what is underemployment
>>
>>1048038
>for trades knowing someone is as simple as talking to your parent's plumber.

And you think that has less of a barrier of entry than STEM?

Explain to me why your parent's plumber would just take on some random kid when there's thousands of kids like that and why he would pay you a premium wage to teach you to work so that you can eventually quit and then give him competition? It makes no sense.

>>1048056
>All the facts and real life things you know are just lying to u!

Yes it's anecdotal but when you only know people who majored in social science who complain about tuition costs and unable to find a job it's pretty telling. I'm sure most people here can agree, although it is anecdotal.
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>>1047895
yeah but they don't always work at something directly connected to their degree
>>
>everyone gets the same degrees
>most of them are focused on none-manual labor
>shortage of jobs and shit salary

welcome to 2016, where construction workers make more then lawyers
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>>1048146
The fact that they're making over $60k/yr average shows that they do. Unless they're working in entirely different fields than also pay a lot, which isn't very likely.

>>1048148
>welcome to 2016, where construction workers make more then lawyers

But they don't.

Physical labor still gets just as many contestants thanks to a steady stream of highschool dropouts or other unskilled people.

>>1048056
Also how is OP posting an image of a frog with "there's 1 million graduates with a few thousand job openings a year" less anecdotal?

It's not even true. Seriously where do you live where over 95% of STEM graduates work outside their field?
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>>1047892
I'll work for less than an H1B. Pls hire.
>>
>>1048156
im 100% sure any manual labor (at least someone who holds a contractor certificate) makes more money than lawyers
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>>1048173
>im 100% sure any manual labor (at least someone who holds a contractor certificate) makes more money than lawyers

That's not true.

Manual labor jobs rarely pay $15/hr and are filled with so much bullshit even that is way too little.

Find me some manual labor job postings that pay above Average Lawyer salary on payscale.
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>>1047892
H1B should be illegal.

God I hate Indians
>>
>>1048216
But special brilliant business people just can't make it without indentured servitude churning out shit for government contracts!
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>>1048214

The 2016 rate for a Union Class 4 Equipment Operator is $31.64 + benefits.

Keep in mind these guys typically work 50-60 weeks and get double time on Sundays. Double time plus 8 hours on holidays.

We employ lots of operators that make 90k+

Is that more than a trial lawyer? No.
Is it more than a real estate lawyer? Yes.
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>>1047865
>if you don't know anyone in the industry you either won't get a job at all
Well. If you graduate from a shit tier universitty with shitty grades that´s for sure. Otherwise dont put others at the same level of loser than you.
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>>1048214
>Manual labor jobs rarely pay $15/hr and are filled with so much bullshit even that is way too little.

I did food service for $10/hr with good health insurance and landscaping for $11/hr with free equipment rentals. Landscaping had 1/10th the bullshit and a free gym and tanning salon membership.

Foremen made $17/hr with other companies paying $20/hr for foremen with clean piss. You need to work your way up from the bitch to make good money doing labor.
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>>1048142
>Explain to me why your parent's plumber would just take on some random kid when there's thousands of kids like that and why he would pay you a premium wage to teach you to work so that you can eventually quit and then give him competition?

When plumbers and other tradies do apprenticeships they are often paid below minimum wage (in cash) and they typically do all the shit work that none of the actual tradies want to do. Also, in Australia employers receive payment to make apprenticeships. If the business is a good one and the co workers are friendly then the apprentice will normally stick around anyway. But, if they leave and join another business it will take them until they are like 35 to have the capital saved up to buy or build their own.

Source, my dad owns a large tradie company
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>>1048245
>I did food service for $10/hr with good health insurance and landscaping for $11/hr with free equipment rentals. Landscaping had 1/10th the bullshit and a free gym and tanning salon membership.

Wow $20k/yr?

Wow $22k/yr?

Wow free gym membership worth approximately $300-500/year? Wow Tanning salon to get cancer?

Yeah seems great to have those jobs that have no future at all for such a measly pay and such "stupendous" benefits.
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>>1047860
Come to the UK I can assure you that we need more STEM grads.

Pls come.

Pls.
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>>1048214
maybe but not for someone with more than a year and have extra qualifications like pluming or abseiling
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>>1048231
>>1048267
I have literally seen ad postings for welders, tool and dye makers, etc with over a couple years experience for no more than $30/hr(at best, and that has a page long list of responsibilities and "experiences with").

Not sure why this meme keeps getting perpetuated.
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>>1048173
They do not. Manual labor has not stopped taking a hit from immigration undercuts
>>
>>1048278
no experienced person works under salary
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>>1048288
What do they work under?

You're just widening the goalposts repeatedly. Please take a screenshot of some jobpostings for trades, their location and how much experience/responsibilities it entails.
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>>1048278

Because it's not a meme. Stop looking at ads posted on indeed.com or in your local newspaper.

High paying trades positions are generally filled by union referral:

Upstate NY
Master mechanic $39.02/hr
http://www.iuoe158.org/rates.html

Cleveland OH
Pile Driver $38.15/hr
http://www.iuoe66.org/wage-sheets/ohio-rates.aspx

NJ
Crane Operator. $49.07/hr
http://www.utcanj.org/pdf/825wage1.1.16.pdf

Cook County Illinois
Brick Mason $42.58/hr
Elevator Constructor $50.80/hr
https://www.illinois.gov/idol/Laws-Rules/CONMED/rates/2015/january/COOK9999.htm

These were found with a 10 minute Google search.

Your own request for Payscale data shows the national average for equipment operators is $28.44/hr
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Operating_Engineer/Hourly_Rate

Which means for every one of your $15/hr jobs, somebody's making $41.88/hr
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>>1048254
If I would have stuck around either job I would have moved to manager or foreman which paid $6/hr more. The manager at my food service job quit with no notice 6 months after I left. The landscaping job is in desperate need of reliable foremen the owner can trust for next season.

34k/yr with 1 year experience with 0 formal education in a field is good. Better than putting down 80k to make 40k/yr starting out. -80k in net worth is a big hole to dig out of.
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>>1048236
says the daft nigger that clearly hasn't even graduated yet.
>>
>>1047860
I had no problem finding a job when I bailed on my PhD a couple years ago. Is it that much more difficult for undergrads?
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>>1048328
Are those contract wages or employee wages? I ask because if they're contracted then there's more tax levied on them plus no fringe benefits.
>>
>>1048593

They're employee wages. Union members also get free health insurance through the union. There's also an employer paid defined benefit pension plan with full retirement after 30 years of service. Those benefits are in addition to the hourly wages listed.
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>>1048972

Also, if you look at the tables linked, the fringe benefits are listed separate from the wages. So, as an example, let's say I'm an elevator constructor in Cook County Illinois.

The table shows my base rate as 50.80. That's for 8 hours a day. M-F over 8 hours I get time and a half. See the columns marked OSA and OSH? That's "Overtime Saturday" and "Overtime Sunday/Holiday". Those pay double time.

In addition, my employer pays 13.57 into the Health & Welfare fund (health insurance). I pay nothing for this insurance. The union provides it to me funded by employer contributions.

My employer also contributes 14.21 per hour into the pension fund on my behalf.

So, given that it is fairly standard for trades to work 50 hour weeks, I can expect to get 40 regular hours at 50.80, plus 10 OT hours at either 1.5x (M-F) or 2.0x (Sa-Su). That's $2794-$3048 for one full weeks work. Plus a pension and health insurance.

All the other trades have their rates spelled out as well. Almost every union local in America posts their rates and fringes online. Look them up.

These guys acting like tradesmen don't make any money don't actually know any tradesmen.

B-b-but it's just a meme. It's not real.
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>>1048231
>50-60 weeks
LOL
>>
these threads are the new /biz/ cancer
>/r9k/ graduates never having gone to a single career fair, done a single internship, with a 2.2 GPA
>goes to post about it on /biz/ of all places
>MUH "MUH STEM SHORTAGE"

i have trouble tying my shoes and I landed an $73k job upon graduation

fuck off back to NEET central
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>>1048994

Should have said 50-60 hour weeks
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>>1049003
the wording isn't the issue
who cares if you even break six figures if you're working 60 hours AND weekends doing backbreaking labor in terrible environments
40 hours is already all the daylight hours of a day
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>>1048996
This desu.

I know some r9ktard will respond with "anecdotal evidence" but I know people who have graduated shit schools with somewhat decent marks that have no issue at all with jobs.

This board truly is shit.
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>>1047860
We need to make it easier for people to start businesses.
All these jobless people in STEM just need to go and make something themselves.
>>
>>1049010
This desu.

1) most trades in non-desolate areas pay very little except union positions and ones that require decades of experience
2) physical labor - it's fun to crawl around on your knees in your 20's, but what about when you're 40+ and your body cannot take the abuse anymore?
3) working 60 hours a week, doing physical labor. No thanks
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>>1049016
> it's fun to crawl around on your knees in your 20's
no it fucking isn't
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>>1049018
Well it's tolerable I mean.

It's in response to the "I like working with my hands xD" crew.

But when you're 40+ with arthritis and lower back problems they may think a lot differently. At that point you come to a problem. - On one hand you're too young to retire or die, on the other hand you're too old to keep doing that shit.
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>>1049022

Just suffer for your circumcised overlords filthy peasant
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>>1049030
>Implying doing physical labor all day for your fat supervisor to earn profit for his Jewish company owner isn't being a literal peasant

Hurry up and finish fixing my toilet :+) I'm sorry about the terrible smell, I just really has to go. You see, that's why it clogged!
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>>1049016

I won't argue the physical toll it takes, no doubt. But do you honestly think these STEM positions paying $80k+ don't require overtime? Nobody that is successful works <=40 hour weeks.

I got and hindering degree because I didn't want to have to crawl around on my knees in my 40s. I now have a lot of these tradesmen working under me. For a long time early in my career, they made more than I did. They don't anymore, but that was the trade off for not having to break my back.

The point is, there are ways to earn a solid middle class living that don't require going to college. They do require hard work, long hours, and uncomfortable working conditions.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.
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>>1049016
>most trades in non-desolate areas pay very little except union positions and ones that require decades of experience

You keep saying this, but repeating it doesn't make it true. The wage scales linked above cover Syracuse/Buffalo/Rochester/Albany NY, the greater NYC/North Jersey area, and Chicago Illinois. Not exactly desolate areas. And the Payscale average of $28+ would seem to indicate one of two things:

Either you're wrong and there are a shit ton of operator positions paying 28/hr

Or

All of the bulldozer operators in America make $10/hr like you say, except for a couple guys in Northern Alaska pulling down $6250/hr and ruining the average.

Also, decades of experience doesn't matter. Nobody pays more for a bricklayer with 30 years service vs 15. Once you get out of the apprenticeship program, you make what you make. Payscale's description backs that up.

>For the first five to ten years in this position, wages increase modestly, but any additional experience does not have a big effect on pay.

You clearly just believe that a Bachelors Degree in a STEM field is the only way to earn a decent living, even though the facts say otherwise. It is one way, for sure, but not the only way.
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>>1048362
Bue.
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>>1047892

This
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>>1047899
Minimum student loan debt
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There's plenty of IT/CS jobs here, problem is all of them are dead fucking boring.
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>>1048216
kek never gonna happen.

Even Ted Cruz, a Republican, wants to increase the amount of H1Bs.
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>>1050285
>H1Bs hurt America
>even a Republicans wants them
>even
Christ, when will people figure out the Republicans hate America just as much as, if not more than, the evilest librul?
Thread replies: 55
Thread images: 2
Thread DB ID: 439413



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