>>1046964 In a perfect world piracy wouldn't exist.
With that being said, piracy has changed certain aspects of media for the better on both the producer side and the consumer side.
Piracy has a large part in pressuring companies to offer more convenient ways of purchasing/using media. Also, It's not that uncommon for consumers who pirated a movie or a game to end up buying the product later.
>>1046964 It's to be expected and should be banned.
If someone uses your software without a license that's unfortunate, but no big deal. But if someone distributes it without your permission it's a real problem. Then you have to compete against your own product, that you worked on for months or years, because some nerd wants some e-credit.
It's even worse with websites that get copied to extort website owners or steal someone elses ad money.
With products that have been available in the past, but aren't available to the public anymore, like with old music, old games, old videos and so on, then I have no real problems with it. Because nobody is really losing any money as the distributor stopped exploiting the product.
>>1046988 Perhaps they want to make money off the product in the future again. But I think it might be in the public interest to preserve the product. If you want to re-release it then you can just make a new adaptation.
On the one hand I understand that by torrenting media we reduce the incentive for actors/producers to put more effort into such things and no one wants to genuinely put in effort knowing they'll have their work stolen...
But on the otherhand you'd have to be pretty dumb to think you can change the world by yourself so spending money on such things would be unnecessary. Although it would be pretty inconvenient for piracy to get entirely banned i could see it justified.
>>1046964 Software developers don't give a shit about the average joe whos downloading auto cad or sony vegas to mess around with. You weren't their target market to begin with and if anything, you create future demand if you decide to pursue a career that works with that software you learned from pirating.They are concerned with corporations and companies that require their software in order operate, that need 30 license keys for their offices and firms. That's where their miney and all their concerns lie. So don't feel guilty, i'm pretty sure you do them a service by going out of your way to learn their software.
Sites like thepiratebay are singlehandedly responsible for making piracy easy for the average joe which costs these industries billions of dollars in lost revenue. Of course most of these are probably from India and such where they wouldn't have bought the movie anyway but surely this has some sort of significant effect, doesn't it?
Piracy is a necessary evil that is a reaction to an unnecessary evil.
Take porn for example
Lets say you have a favorite girl and you want to see all of her content. Well, you have to sign up for her own site for $19.99/month and another $19.99/month for the ten other sites that she has content for. There's no universal way to get everything you want without getting jewed to hell and back
The music industry completely deserved it for how incredibly shitty they have treated their customers. I remember when I was still internet illiterate and bought music from itunes and other sites. Songs would cost $1 each and the singles for the album would require you to buy the entire album, which would cost more than just buying every song individually. Combine that with the ridiculous DMR at the time, and you just gave your consumer base the middle finger.
Services like Netflix and Red Box hit the nail on head with their services, and it shows with their success. Let me rent it for one day for one dollar and return it or pay ONE monthly fee and get everything I want.
Steam also does a great job of giving you content for fair prices, compared to how retail stores and other digital distributors do business.
It is literally impossible to get some music and ebooks of certain older content without pirating them, because no one offers to sell them
Like the guy above said, piracy will always exist, but it would be at a minimum in a perfect world.
>>1047002 >surely this has some sort of significant effect, doesn't it? yeah i save myself thousands of dollars every year and manage to fill the hole with entertainment instead of a bullet to the head and they still make billions
>>1047023 Not that guy, but deciding it isn't worth it is me pirating that stuff. If they offered a $1/mo thing I'd buy.
Similarly if music, movies, or games were similarly priced I'd buy. $1 per song is insane. They need to compete both ease of use and bring prices down. I buy steam games because they're a couple bucks for hours of entertainment and easy use.
Music and movies don't have the same advantage in ease of use because you don't need to install them, but you can make pricing less for morexample purchases
>>1046964 I consider it a natural reaction to the circunstances, for example lets consider the following cases:
1.An application. -it is usefull and practical -filled to the brim with adds -lots of premium only content -premium of full acess considered overpriced -not really that easy to pay for depending on which part of the world you live
2.Movies and Music -easy access to it online, even on youtube -no extra feature granted if you buy it -considered overpriced -waste of money and so on
In ex.1. we can see some kind of over glorification of the paid version features, however if the client is not able to pay the asked price, for whatever reason, he will end up searching for a pirate version, if it does not exist, it soon will, sometime in the future someone that has knowledge of how to produce a pirate version will do so when he stumble upon the application
In ex.2. the main reason that justifies the existence of piracy is the lack of content that may be acquired by buying it, you get the product, however it is easy to get the same product for free online, if you buy it you will just be the weird guy who buys things he could get for free.
Piracy is natural, but may be countered. - A software used for developing may ask for a publishing license - An application may actually reavaliate it's default and paid versions to make the paid option a neat extra but not a must for the application so users will not seek a pirate version - A movie or a cd may include some bonus exclusive phisical stuff in the package or some online key. - Movies and cds could use some kind of online library like steam, sell the movie copy, allow someone to view it together online with friends, rate, thropies stuff like that and opt for a more sentimental approach
What really won't stop piracy is just some lawsuit trying to ban stuff online, a lawsuit only works against an individual or an organization.
>>1046964 "Software piracy" is a ridiculous and invented crime. It's just information. It cannot be "stolen" in the sense that most people understand the word. At it's very core software is just an idea, a number. People invented "software piracy" as a crime out of thin air because they didn't like that someone copied their idea in a way they didn't approve of. It's the ultimate "fuck you" to the very concept of free speech.
>>1047246 The most basic, fundamental and widely recognized right is the right to ownership. The right to completely control a good and do what you want with it.
If someone makes a work, he actually produces a good. This could be material and immaterial. If humans can control a substance then you can own it. So you can own houses, paintings, written works, works on your hard drive and even electricity you created and store.
This right is also one that you have to weigh. It's not all just freedom of speech that comes into the equation.
You could argue piracy is just making a copy so the right to ownership of the original good isn't infringed. After all, he still has access to the good and all the rights to it. Or you could argue the right to publicize his work, which is part of the all encompassing right to ownership, is infringed. That's just a matter of perspective.
With freedom of speech it's a bit harder. Because that comes from the freedom of thought, which is not something humans can physically control. And freedom of press is partially about producing goods or works again.
>>1047336 Banning piracy is more a pragmatic decision. It's really a question of what you find more important. A strict interpretation of certain legal principles, which is very understandable, or a guys labour, which doesnt translage nicely into fundamental legal principles, as the fruits of his labour are protected by a legal principle, but he might not be able to enjoy them due to the loophole of making a copy.
I think that if you wrote a shit piece of software you have the right to kill anyone using it, kill their mother and all their friends, pump as much money from from the binary files as inhumanly possible. It's just logic. I mean you wouldn't download a lawnmower. You'd pay for it first. Come on it's 2016. Please shoot me in the face. I have no mind of my own, I just repeat what I hear other people saying and what suits my personal interest. See, I'm a developer myself, I develop shit literally nobody uses except tools kind enough to pay for it and need to make a living. Do not argue with me, I'm retarded.
>>1047439 If it's such a piece of shit software why would you want it?
Also; explain to me why anyone would put tons of hardwork and effort into a project if he knew that someone would just crack and a bunch of people would be using it for free when they would have normally paid for it? - People don't work for free, they need to pay for food and shelter and they won't continue to work on something if it brings them close to no money.
>>1047496 How is that? Lesser known titles are hard to find pirated, it's mostly mainstream garbage. Piracy has always existed the only difference in the digital age and digital wares is the ease with which is can happen. Most of the things I pirate if not all, are things I wouldn't pay for anyway and probably just spend that time doing something else. It's almost a curse it's so easy.
>>1046964 Well purchasing or acquiring illegally reproduced works for personal use never used to be illegal for centuries but we changed it in the 90s because movie and music execs got buttblasted. Somehow that seems unjust.
>>1047548 I'm the last guy in that list of quoted posts No that's stealing the store's property. You would be within your rights to look for someone offering it at a more agreeable price (free) and acquiring said item from him though.
>>1047553 >No one would be willing to sell a candy bar to me for free because it costs money to produce, just like music and movies. Well a string of electrical signals is apparently very cheap to produce and many people offer them for free for whatever reason.
>>1047455 >If it's such a piece of shit software why would you want it? Cause I like shit.
>Also; explain to me why anyone would put tons of hardwork and effort into a project if he knew that someone would just crack and a bunch of people would be using it for free when they would have normally paid for it? For all the right reasons for once.
>People don't work for free, Who paid you to write that post? "Oh but this doesn't COUNT as work!". Fuck off.
>they need to pay for food and shelter and they won't continue to work on something if it brings them close to no money I actually agree with you on this.
AND MY POINT IS... yes, devs do need to get paid, BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN that they've a right to stick a probe up your ass.
>>1047561 >Yes but films literally cost millions in an upfront investment to pay actors, props, makeup artists, directors, etc. That is actually a good point. It does seem like the big movie, music, and game companies have started targeting their productions somewhat more at the tastes of the demographic/s that won't pirate things in response to piracy, and personally I'd say that has led to a reduction in quality. It is a shame, and does indicate that if you want people to make products to your tastes you'd better be willing to pay up.
>>1047568 >To give you free things? Why do you feel entitled to others work? Because fuck you - that's why. Because I'm not intimidated by you or people of your kind.
>I don't understand what you're trying to get across with this. I'm trying to get across that you're participating in filling this thread with content although nobody is paying you for it. Contributing to software works pretty much the same way - except "posts" are "commits" and they are written in languages understood by computers.
>What the fuck is that suppose to mean? Your arguments basically boil down to: "I am entitled to others' work so they should give it to me for free otherwise it's not fair!" To be perfectly honest I'm not sure myself what my argument is. You just piss me off. You sound like some dumb old fuck who needs to have their face punched in.
>>1047577 >Because fuck you - that's why. Because I'm not intimidated by you or people of your kind.
>Give me free things or else ill steal them!
I'd love to see what a country or civilization filled with people who think like this looks like. Literally Somalia-tier.
>I'm trying to get across that you're participating in filling this thread with content although nobody is paying you for it. Contributing to software works pretty much the same way - except "posts" are "commits" and they are written in languages understood by computers.
Understood if it's just a non-profit project but those people need to eat too. I don't see why anyone would put in their hardwork for many hours a day when the expected return is very low. People would just copy-paste and steal public code then since there is no incentive.
>To be perfectly honest I'm not sure myself what my argument is. You just piss me off. You sound like some dumb old fuck who needs to have their face punched in.
>U need to be physically attacked because you dared question why people feel entitled other's work!
>>1046964 Back in 1995, Software piracy was the only way to learn. Now with Microsoft literally pushing Visual Studio in every classroom there is really no need for it. Unless youre a degenerate gamer who cant even afford to pay for a game.
I wanted to sell a program. I figured I'd only charge $20 for it. I never came up with a protection scheme that wasn't a pain in the ass for customers though. So I never really finished it despite continuing to work on it.
Software is a weird business. Organizations buy some steaming shit for millions. Meanwhile people online are so cheap they won't pay $20 for something like Winzip or Netscape, let alone $500 for MSVC or Photoshop.
>>1047548 What if I went to the grocery store, saw a potato salad that I thought was yummy, and then went back home and made my own potato salad that was exactly like the one in the store? That's what software piracy is. It's not stealing where you take something from someone and they no longer have it. It's copying something. Copying isn't stealing.
>>1048873 >don't want people to copy your shit? don't write code and fuck off >don't want people to copy your medical advances? don't try to cure diseases and fuck off >don't want people to copy your invention? don't invent things and fuck off Immature as fuck and not worthy of a more serious reply.
Here's some quotes from the master debater: >"Because fuck you that's why" >"I like feeling like a bad person for the hell of it" >"You deserve... You deserve dick" - Solid argument 10/10 >"Don't want it to stolen? Don't make it." - Another fantastic argument. >"You deserve to be pinched in the face"
How are we to argue with these well-formed arguments? How is anyone even suppose to reply to that?
>>1048999 You don't explain what's wrong with "lol deal with it not my problem" in relation to copying someone's code. You simply call me immature.
Explain to me what exactly is wrong with this attitude without resorting to ad hominems and argumentum ad populum - and I will take you seriously and give you the respect you earned. Until then enjoy your ad-homos, twatface.
>>1049017 I honestly didn't think it needs explaining, I wasn't avoiding the argument. You're aware of the great utility copyright law has for pharm and software companies and by extension to society, yet I presume you argue for getting rid of copyright because you find it unjust. You realize that upon getting rid of copyright laws this utility would be lost yet you make no attempt as salvaging it or finding a solution that would allow investors to cure cancer while also making money, this gives the impression that your philosophy isn't really thought out at all and you just found out about this argument last week.
I never said that copying is stealing, it obviously isn't, but copying can have the effect of making someone else's labour go to waste, which is a bad thing.
>>1049028 >I honestly didn't think it needs explaining, I wasn't avoiding the argument. Cool.
>You're aware of the great utility copyright law has for pharm and software companies and by extension to society Yes, it's better than crack cocaine. Best thing since sliced bread.
> yet I presume you argue for getting rid of copyright because you find it unjust. No, dear sir. I'm argumulating with the intention of presentionizing the quite scrupulous faux-pas of 21st century commercial materialism of your mom's dick.
>You realize that upon getting rid of copyright laws this utility would be lost HOLY SHIT NO, MY CIVILIZATION, ALL THE FAT FUCK 1% FEASTING ON THE REST AND THEIR FAT MONEY
It brought a tear to my eye. What can we do to stop this?
> yet you make no attempt as salvaging it or finding a solution that would allow investors to cure cancer while also making money Exactly. Don't do it if you're in it for the money. Do it if you're a philantropist.
We're not talking about drugs though ITC, we're discussing SOFTWARE. I don't know anything about drugs. I do know a thing or two about programming though. I jerked off Steve Jobs while he was still alive. I think it qualifies me.
>this gives the impression that your philosophy isn't really thought out Maybe it isn't.
>I never said that copying is stealing, it obviously isn't Alright
>but copying can have the effect of making someone else's labour go to waste, which is a bad thing. No? My labour "goes to waste" while I'm contributing to this thread, same goes for you. Who is paying us? Nobody, yet we're doing it anyway. Why should programming be any different?
>>1049047 >Why should doctors demand payment for their services? They should do it for """""PHILANTHTOPY"""""
>le 1% is evil and stealing from us ;((((
How are they forcing you to buy it? If you don't want to then "fuck off".
Again, why are you even on a business board if you're against profits and capitalism? Shouldn't you be on revleft discussing how to take the country back to "the people" with antifa(ggots) and Bernie Sanders supporters?
>>1049047 >HOLY SHIT NO, MY CIVILIZATION, ALL THE FAT FUCK 1% FEASTING ON THE REST AND THEIR FAT MONEY See this is why people call you edgy. You can't expect to be taken seriously when you don't give a fuck about morality. The whole basis for calling piracy wrong is either that it's immoral, or that it's not immoral but banning it is good for the economy, which is also a moral argument. If you don't care why are you even in this thread?
>Don't do it if you're in it for the money. Do it if you're a philantropist. but muh money
>No? My labour "goes to waste" while I'm contributing to this thread, same goes for you. Who is paying us? Nobody, yet we're doing it anyway. Why should programming be any different? In a world with no copyright protection if someone gets fucked because someone copies them then it's their fault, but if someone was under the impression that they're protected and they don't need to worry about having their idea stolen and then someone does it anyway then it's a pretty sad story.
>>1049054 >>le 1% is evil and stealing from us ;((((
Loominarty is real. 420 never forget.
>How are they forcing you to buy it? By making it an industry standard. By shoving it in my face when I buy a computer. By giving it to schools and schools needing you to "buy" it.
>If you don't want to then "fuck off". Yeah, and you end up being an outcast. Oh wait, so that's what it's all about. Nevermind what's right - just follow the current rule as long as it's still in place, as long as you can still profit.
>Again, why are you even on a business board if you're against profits and capitalism? I'm also against treating patients. I'm against breathing and against basic hygene. Get your shit right.
>Shouldn't you be on revleft discussing how to take the country back to "the people" with antifa(ggots) and Bernie Sanders supporters? Dang I'm leaving. You convinced me.
>>1049074 I'm working-in/studying pseduo-intellectualism, being excessively verbal, intimidating people with sheer tone of voice. They pay me for sucking off the principal. 2 dolla for each blowjob.
>>1049065 >See this is why people call you edgy. Let them. I *am* edgy. What's the problem?
>You can't expect to be taken seriously when you don't give a fuck about morality. The idiot half-wits who think themselves intellectual ignore me - it's all going according to the plan chump.
>The whole basis for calling piracy wrong is either that it's immoral or that it's not immoral but banning it is good for the economy, which is also a moral argument. I wanna understand this morality.
>If you don't care why are you even in this thread? I do care, but I won't be intimidated. Everything has to have a basis in reality and be well argumented. I'm ok with reading on the subject as long as it isn't a cop-out merely to shush me up.
>>1049094 >I wanna understand this morality. What's there to understand? If piracy is stealing then you have grounds to call it immoral and if piracy hurts the economy and technological progress then you also have grounds to call it immoral.
>>1049065 >In a world with no copyright protection if someone gets fucked because someone copies them then it's their fault, Who gets "fucked" is a matter of perspective. The mere fact someone even wants to copy what you wrote means what you wrote is good - you get fucked cause you're good.
You would be right in saying that my attitude towards software isn't geared toward maximum profit, but it again depends on the perspective. What's a money-making cash-cow today may not be one tomorrow.
I'm not here to propagate some ideas, merely want to understand how the "morality" of paying for software works, and all I'm getting is ANGER and INSULTS, so that's what I'm giving back.
>but if someone was under the impression that they're protected and they don't need to worry about having their idea stolen and then someone does it anyway then it's a pretty sad story.
If you make "stealing ideas" not profitable who would want to "steal" them in first place, except people who give 2 shits about solving the problem itself? (programming is ultimately about solving problems) What for?
>>1049113 >If piracy is stealing then you have grounds to call it immoral Agreed. Is it stealing though? Why exactly? Copying doesn't destroy the original.
>and if piracy hurts the economy and technological progress then you also have grounds to call it immoral Does it really hurt it, or does it merely pierce a shit-bubble? HOW is easier access to technology/software HURTING technological progress, EXACTLY?
>>1049140 Aside from the obvious financial motive you also need to understand that people who are creators of some sort - such as programmers but more often those involved in the fine arts - tend to have this sense of pride in their work that causes them to feel validated by the quality of their work. On some level no human likes it when someone steals credit for something they did and also wouldn't want to take credit themselves for someone else's work as it's pretty pathetic, and this holds doubly true for the select few that are truly great at what they do and credit for their merits is actually worth stealing. Note that I used stealing instead instead of copying because if you wrote a masterpiece story and I managed to trick everyone into thinking I wrote it then I genuinely took something valuable from you because the fame/respect/etc is something you lose.
You might think this isn't relevant for when discussing software piracy because when you make a copy the original doesn't suffer anything bad but this sentiment is the basis for wanting to make ideas property and crucial for understanding the concept of "MY idea", which along with wanting to make more money is the reason why people invented copyright laws.
>>1049145 Removes incentive to put in large amounts of effort into development.
Look at Open Source software. Yes some of it is very good, but a lot of it is absolute shit compared to proprietary versions, some of it doesn't even exist in opensource.
If this keeps happening eventually it will just go to majority opensource software and it will work like shit, keep crashing, lack features etc.
It makes no sense for most people to invest their skills and efforts into something that will make them very little to no money.
Think about if you were a software developer. You wrote some kewl software after working on it for a year, finally released it, included some anti-reverse engineering and piracy protection... Then some nerds cracked your software and start releasing it for free.
Now your options are: 1) Work even harder to create new version that you think will be harder to crack, until it very quickly gets cracked again 2) Be a cuck and keep releasing bugfixes, working on your software even though they're stealing your profits and you end up making under minimum wage
or 3) Give up on software development, either join a company that will pay you to write enterprise-level software, freelance or search for a new field to make money in
Personally I, as well as many other people(most likely including you in this situation) would simply abandon my efforts and stop actively working on it, if not end development entirely.
>>1049169 >the economically artificial encouragement they get from government-enforced monopolization of their idea Which served to encourage them. Now gone, they are less encouraged than before. Some would argue that this is indistinguishable from discouragement.
>The value of creative work is inflated. Not necessarily. If you invent something good and a big company stole it from you and you earned nothing I would still say your work had value much greater than what money it brought you. If value to society means anything in this context.
>>1049478 You're going straight to hell. Do you even believe in god? Do you consider yourself a good boy? How can you look at yourself in the mirror? You're so immature, man. Hold on, let me take all these cocks out of my mouth.
It doesnt dramatically sales. Most pirates wouldnt buy the product otherwise. In addition, you cant lose a copy of a game, it becomes reproduceable data.
The truth is corporations are the real pirates. Companies like valve extort up to 30% of a games sales, and companies like ea will fuck and chuck companies slowly, firing people that dont follow orders and then raping the intellectual property.
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