What are/will be the most employable degrees and qualifications?
What subjects and skills pretty much guarantee that you'll be able to get a job once you're done, considering the job market right now and how it's predicted to evolve in the near future?
Computer science in my opinion will always remain in highest demand, anything involving gas and oil distribution, medical & treatment, engineering, etc. I'm only a freshman in college so I don't know everything but I know those will definitely guarantee you a job after graduating. And when it comes to skills, many people *post grads who have the job they want* have gave me the same answer, don't be an asshole, be "diverse", be open to learn. :)
So computer science is basically a guaranteed job nowadays and in the years to come? Since it's getting increasingly outsourced, how does one stay competitive in the field? What skills should I prioritize, what certs should I get if I want to become a valuable asset in the industry?
What branch of CS is best to get into? I'm guessing it's either software engineering or security
What company do you work for to back up your claim that CS isn't getting outsourced at alarming numbers? Apple, Google, MSFT, etc. all have offices that are getting filled to the brim with Europeans/Asians (mainly the latter) that are more valuable employees because they didn't go through the broken American education system.
Take it from somebody who actually works in Silicon Valley. It isn't a meme bud. 4 out of the 5 managers on my floor are from Asia (read FROM Asia not just asian they actually grew up in asian countries).
CS was a good degree 10, maybe 15, years ago but the job market for software engineering is so oversaturated at this point that it's easier to get elected as a public official than get a job here.
1. Use the internet to find high-paying jobs in the computer science field
2. Look at the requirements/ qualifications, write down any and all certificates you see
3. Get on your fucking grind.
>Europeans/Asians (mainly the latter) that are more valuable employees because they didn't go through the broken American education system
"Broke American education system"?
You do realize that Asians come over in huge numbers to study in North America, right?
In Canada at any university there is thousands of Asian(mostly Chinese) students... Gee I wonder why their parents are paying absurd amounts for them to study in our useless Universities... And that's considering Canadian Universities aren't shit compared to the US in rankings and prestige. Can't imagine how it is over there.
>CS was a good degree 10, maybe 15, years ago but the job market for software engineering is so oversaturated at this point that it's easier to get elected as a public official than get a job here.
Also this isn't even true.
Nearly everyone who I know that majored in Computer Science had a co-op making $25/hr+ and got one or more job offers before or upon graduation.
Even people who went to the lowest ranked and reputed University that I know are doing alright job-wise.
> outsourcing development/support
Wew lad, are we pretending it's still the year 2005?
Every company that dabbled in that shit stopped doing it because the code was awful and they also couldn't technical support their way out of a paper bag.
lel, I'm frenchfag and I think the american education is the best in the world. Some of my mates went to US to pursue a degree there, they all said it was way better there and they came from top 5 french colleges. I am myself considering getting a degree there one day.
>What are/will be the most employable degrees and qualifications?
This really depends on where you live and what you're ready to do.
For instance I can move to the middle east and work there (mind you I'm saying work, not "live" there) and rake in about 2M$ with approx. five to ten years of experience with a Bs in Civil engineering because of the connections i have there.
Don't limit yourself to working just in the U.S if that's where you live. If you really want to make money then you need to widen your horizons if you're not being creative enough to be an entrepreneur and have a company do the work for you.
Once you start thinking of what's POSSIBLE (no matter how small the chances are but still being reasonable) you'll see what you once thought of before, how futile it was.
If you don't believe in """""god""""" a BSc in Atheism will land you a guaranteed $300k minimum entry-level job.
I have Phd in Actuarial Atheism, and my typical work day consists of getting my dick sucked, smoking weed, hitchslapping theists and posting dank maymays on reddit.
Healthcare at the bachelor's level or higher. I'm talking about degrees that require clinicals (internships), specific job training, and certification.
After that you should look into accounting, engineering, and CS.
It gets pretty rough outside of those degrees.
>willing to live anywhere and get any stem degree
>no special connections
>fresh out of college with BS
What are the most lucrative fields that are easy to get into that fit this criteria, and where?
private universitys are seperate from grade school. The public education system is broken in america, private universitys like Oxford and MIT and so on do great things, but Jackman Highschool in Ohio aint a good place to learn.
In terms of employment opportunities, are top universities really worth the cost when you can get a similar and free education in Europe, then come back to the US?
Also, Oxford is not American
Man fuck these "what degrees are most employable" threads.
When I was in highschool people/teachers said that a job in the oil field would set me up for life. I'd be well paid and EVERYBODY is going to need oil.
Here I am now in Canada. Jobless. Worked my ass off for my degree for nothing. And have to deal with my fukin parents every day.
Fuck you guys.
There is a notion out there that teachers are often people who can't make it in the real world, so they have to stay in academia. I wouldn't trust a teacher's opinion unless they have some good experience.
>When I was in highschool people/teachers said that a job in the oil field would set me up for life. I'd be well paid and EVERYBODY is going to need oil.
This was true for years though. Literally $40/hr 12 hours a week jobs for hs graduates in Alberta. Nothing like that for a long long time anymore though.
What's your degree in? Why don't you just move out of those fuck niggas' house?
if you are going to uni and get in debt now you will be fucked,FUCKED.
in 5 years the job market is going to complete trash, even compared to what it is now. no guaranteed jobs unless you have already a job/family business. it will be really bad.
bro I know that feel so much. About to graduate as a chemical engineer from University of Calgary, my whole life for the last 5 ish years was about making it and getting into oil and gas. I'm graduating this year so I just missed out, probably won't get the 80k starting like previous years.
Anyways I'm not losing, hopefully some other cucks will see the value of my engineering degree and hire me. So fucking glad I didn't end up in petroleum engineering, those guys are completely screwed.
I want to move to the u.s for jobs, I have a friend in Arizona that I can be roommates with. However, most postings I've been looking at explicitly say that they won't sponsor visas, even ones under NAFTA.
I posted this in the STEM thread
I want to be a trader, I'm going to a uni that I know investment banks hires from, however, it's not the equivalent of an ivy league (i have family working at investment banks)
I'm doing engineering/commerce, what major would be the best, i was thinking computer engineering, my uni doesnt do electrical as a major unfortunately.
Any advice or input?
I think that trading firms almost exclusively hire heavily quantitative-focused majors. So math, CS, statistics and physics, preferably a double major. I'm guessing you want to work at some kind of prop trading firm since you said you wanted to be a trader, so something math-focused seems preferable
i just checked all the credits for the different majors at my uni
computer, electronics and mechatronic have the tied most amount of credits dedicated to math and have the highest level of math offered in just engineering at my uni
Computer engineering also has Systems Programming and Algorithms and Data Structures as credits which I assume could also potentially land me in quant stuff (not that I'm particularly interested in that stuff), maybe thats more valuable than an electronics engineering?
>not that I'm particularly interested in that stuff
Keep in mind that trading nowadays is almost exclusively quant-related stuff. HFT and all that.
If you're looking for something which is less quantitative and more "corporate" (that's a shit way to describe it), try to get into investment banking, asset management or management consulting
If you're really good at math and CS and think you can compete with MIT valedictorians and math olympiads winners daily, then do trading.
There are a few boutique trading firms left (in Chicago mostly) but the future of financial transactions is undoubtedly quant trading
Oh I'm retarded, you mean actual security.
I don't know then, sorry. You should still try the military, as long as it's a minor issue you have (eg flat feet) you can probably get in. Depends on the MOS as well.
I'm a natural at math, but, I'm not spergy to the point of being olympiad shit.
I took the easy math in high school because I didn't have to study and got in the top 1% of the state, but, I don't know how well I will do in this advanced stuff, the physics credits etc so I'm going to say I can't compete with the math olympiads.
btw, I'm from Australia, not that it matters to much.
I really have my mind set on trading, but, u are probably right. Quants will take over completely soon, I will probably have to settle for asset management because you need a phd to get hired for quant stuff,
Thanks for your input
It is much appreciated.
I'm guessing he's assuming he's going to be a good programmer. Which isn't too hard to do, most CS grads end up as code monkeys because they weren't interested in CS in the first place.
>settle for asset management
You don't settle for anything in finance unless you have nepotism on your side.
I'm sure you know that already, but nobody's waiting for you, especially in a field as competitive as the financial sector. Work very hard, do everything you can do in order to land yourself internships and to secure a position in whichever branch of finance you want to work in. If you have contacts in IB then do IB.
What matters is getting in, after that it's all about how good you are at networking and grabbing the right opportunities.
The general consensus is; you work two years as an analyst, then go for an MBA, then that's where it starts to become truly interesting. The hardest part where 99% of people fail is actually landing that analyst position.
Once you're done with that and your MBA, you can try your luck at a hedge fund or PE firm
Also, you don't necessarily need a PhD for prop trading. A degree in CS/math/physics is a given, but as long as you can demonstrate you're able to think your way through complex problems and do whatever the firm wants you to do, it's alright.
Of course, I'm talking about prop trading firms exclusively here (Optiver for example). If you want to work at a quant fund (eg Bridgewater), a PhD isn't even sure to land you an internship, much less a job. For companies like that, a PhD is a given, you truly have to be one of the best (just look at the little information the Internet has on RennTech and you'll understand)
Are you in camp? What is your job? Are you on 12 hr shift rotational work? You work production? Shut downs? In a trade?
Big difference between a job 'up in northern alberta' and an actual oil field cash-stacking gravy train job in a trade.
You could be in a fucking kitchen for all we know.
>You just don't want it enough
Tell us the secret to success big guy.
>You don't settle for anything in finance unless you have nepotism on your side.
I do have nepotism on my side
I have a member in my nuclear family as an investment banker and a family friend on the board of directors of a top 10 largest investment bank among several other financial institutions as well as several family friends as part owners in accounting firms.
Thanks for the input about the analyst thing, I have an internship set up for accounting (nepotism), could that still lead to investment banking? The accounting firm does alot of stuff and is a mixed bag so I could ask to be in a specific field to assist me on my journey to investment banking/trading if say consulting would be closer to investment banking than assurance.
I dont go to the equivalent of an ivy league school so I might not be able to get in to an internship to the investment bank based on merit, I'll ask though next year if its possible.
Thanks for the info, a phd would be better overall anyway and it sounds interesting. However, 5 years sounds plenty for uni and I feel it would get stale going back straight away.
My bad then. If you do have that kind of network available to you, use it as much as you can in order to move up and get the position you want, regardless of what sour grapes moralfags tell you.
If I were in your shoes, I'd definitely go the IB route instead of doing accounting, as long as you feel capable of handling the pressure of an investment bank's analyst program.
>could that still lead to investment banking
A lot of different paths can lead to it, especially since you have a good network it seems. Generally speaking, if your internship is in a Big Four firm, then it can certainly be used in order to land an analyst job afterwards.
>I dont go to the equivalent of an ivy league
Doesn't matter as long as it's not a shit college and as long as you're performing very well. Don't skip on extracurricular shit, as meaningless as it may be it looks good on a resume. Try to be as academically brilliant as you can. You can certainly get in based on merit as long as you're not in Bumfuck Nowhere University and if you ask your family members for a little push.
>a phd would be better overall
Yes. But if you're not either passionate or extremely motivated, don't bother with a PhD. Especially considering the extremely high standards of trading firms.
You should go for IB. Investment bankers have a much higher income ceiling than quants, anyway (there are exceptions, but they are incredibly rare).
Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it.
I would be definetely satisfied with IB, and your input about IB making more than your typical quant/trader is very appealing. Money is a very big influence on the career path I choose.
It's not a big 4, it's just a medium sized accounting firm (about 30 accountants it looked like last time I visited)
However, family friends with a partner at a top 10 in Australia so if I have to take up on the accounting thing I could possibly go there.
>as long as it's not a shit college
It's not.It's a big uni and very close (in terms of nation rankings) to being the australian equivalent of ivy league. However, I've been told there is a fair bit of uni nepotism of bosses being like "I graduated from xxx university with law/commerce" or "engineering".
>Don't skip on extracurricular shit, as meaningless as it may be it looks good on a resume. Try to be as academically brilliant
I'm planning to go hard on the extra curricular shit, I actually enjoy doing stuff like that, even the tedious shit like joining clubs and attending dumb meetings.
Just curious, are you in investment banking or know a guy? I'm wondering how you know so much.
Once again, thankyou so much for your time.
>IB making more than your typical quant/trader
This can be misleading. It also depends on the type of trader you're talking about.
Quants generally don't make "a lot", especially compared to the amount of money they make for the company. The exceptions are the top-notch, heavily quant-focused funds, but in investment banks, a quant usually makes anywhere from $120K to $500K including bonuses. It's not a hard rule but that's generally how it goes.
Prop trading firms like Optiver are different. Some of them will only pay you based on your results, which means that the amount of money you make is entirely dependent on your performance. That might seem attractive but it's usually a bad bet. You'll also read a lot of stories about how "a trader made $150M this year, exceeding the incomes of all big IB CEOs combined", but that's not an accurate indicator, obviously
What I mean when I say that IB makes more is that it's not very rare for a managing director at a relevant investment bank to pull into the high seven figures. It's much, much rarer for quants and traders (the top ones make ludicrous amounts of money, but it's unlikely that you'd ever end up in such a tiny minority).
You should look at expected salary and bonus spreadsheets, I know there's a bunch of them on the web.
I'm also not including PE, which is a whole different game as well
>I could possibly go there
Be sure to make a great impression during your internship there, although a big 4 would've been preferable, any experience at a decent firm is always relevant
There's that everywhere. You seem to be doing some research and to be motivated on top of having a decent network and working hard, so you'll probably be fine. If you don't manage to make it at first don't give up, the field's insanely competitive and it's also about luck.
I'm not in IB myself but I know a bunch of people in my family and friends who work in such fields. No problem by the way.
Can someone actually give me some advice
Im in mech engg '16
i dont know if i should specialize in interdisciplinary design or manufacturing
i already have a ton of courses in manufacturing but for my last semester id like to make it easier and i also still want to have a chance to design in my professional career after grad
To elaborate, hourly pay for analysts in IB is lower than shit. You'll make 75-90k including bonuses but you'll be working so much that you probably won't appreciate it.
The real appeal of IB is when you get your MBA and come back to the firm afterwards. Analysts are treated like shit and paid like shit, but you'll have to go through it if you want to make it in that particular field as fast as possible.
I'm just curious now. How far can charisma get you in the "banking world" (if that's what you wanna call it) is it appreciated to be able to spread a good vibe (not a hippy vibe but a vibe that reconciles with the people who works there)?
The general common stereotypical view of bankers is that they're cold and greedy and not very big on jokes, so on and so forth. I want to believe that this is just bullshit. Is it? Is it OK to have a sense of black comedy or is that something that's frowned upon?
> How far can charisma get you in the "banking world"
Apparently getting in to the banking world based on charisma and a little bit of nepotism was normal decades ago, but, today, you will still need somewhat heavy qualifications to be competitive
>The general common stereotypical view of bankers is that they're cold and greedy and not very big on jokes
According to investment bankers I know, the senior guys make racist and sexist jokes frequently and HR does fuck with them (probs just they are part owners or someshit), but, those in lower-mid areas can't say shit without HR raping them. I don't think bankers are cold, they are greedy, but, the ones I've met have typically been funny and interesting to talk to. Maybe charisma does play a part.
I also have a sense of dark humor and my family member told me that I am going to have totally hide that from social media now in case they go searching through my shit, so I decided to make 2 accounts. One completely private and one for future employers. I'm sure you can get away with your humour when you reach higher up and buy in to the business.
Literally 99.9% employment rate straight out of college, $60k+ starting easy.
Even though it's a legitimate 4 year degree, know you're basically going to a trade school.
So my mom and I together make less than 30k a year, yet I only get 2k in pell grant in which a regular semester is approx 5k. I still have 1 more year to go.
What the fuck am I supposed to do? Majoring in accounting. But for a CPA, I need 150 credits which equals more fucking debt. It's a lose/lose.
>going somewhere for 5k to learn accounting
>not learning most of what you need at CC
you are doing it VERY WRONG
Business IT security.
I don't know waht the degree would be called, and I'm sure it varies from school to school, but my friend studied this and had a list of companies emailing HIM offering him employment. Easily landed a job doing IT auditing making 80 a year straight of college. He said he plans on just settling down at some local firm who will pay him 100k to keep their network "secure".
He didn't even know the major was going to be so lucrative. He just thought it sounded interesting. pisses me off.
Management Consulting is about as far as you can get from IB and Asset Management. I learned this the hard way - doing management consulting for IB and Asset Management firms.
Also, just become a management consultant, the only vaguely hard part is getting through the door. Plus you know, not being a sperg.
Why the fuck would you go to university to become a glorified sysadmin. The money isn't in security assurance or pen testing, it's in consulting, so things like DPM and ISM, and policy.
The hiring process is quite similar though. I've never actually worked for a consulting firm nor an IB firm, though, so I'm sure you're right about what the work consists of
>just become a management consultant
From what I've seen, the work hours are equivalent to IB but the pay is lower. I'm talking in general here
>The money isn't in security assurance or pen testing
What do you consider to be a good amount of money? Pen testing pays well.
I didn't realise that working in a Big 4 could be an in. I'm a consultant in a big 4 firm, have worked with multiple banks implementing and advising around trading and client wealth management solutions (basically engineering their new trading process from the ground up) - what other experience would you need to push into the financial sector?
medicine (good luck paying for that degree)
computer science (still needs good networking)
psycology and neurology
any kind of arts
>Business IT Security
Two very different things. Depending on where you specialise within BITS you will either be a complete wagecuck, or be incredibly well renumerated. If you go into ISM/policy advisory you'll be rolling in it.
"IT Specialists" aren't in demand because IT typically means no-degree plebs with a few CompTIA certs. A good rule is that if the job has "Data" or "Information" at the start, it'll probably be well renumerated, Data is the lifeblood of any informational business.
From what I've been told, it makes it easier to get into front-office finance if you have previous experience in some sort of consulting or accounting at a respectable firm. I know an MD who first worked at Deloitte for three years, then did an MBA and immediately started working for an investment bank. He told me that the MBA was only necessary to make it to associate, but that it was quite easy to simply get in if you had worked at a big 4 company beforehand.
I don't know the inner workings of such companies, but it seemed to me that consulting and investment banking required a similar skillset and that it was therefore relatively easy to go from one to another.
ill add a few more
music business (longshot)
few more to high tier:
abseiling (if you are not afraid of heights)
craft (any kind of it, especially hand made and wood,jewelry)
more mid tier:
Pen testing pays well, but only for a very small subset of very experienced very good people. It's like saying software developers get paid really well. Most get paid decently, but only some are raking in ~150k USD.
To be fair, good pay is subjective and highl relative to location and how much work you do. The pay of management consultancy is a bit inaccurate, because it doesn't factor in the factor I never buy food or use electricity etc, because I'm never within 100 miles of my home.
That's interesting. I've only been with the Big D for two years, I want to grab a little more seniority before I jump ship. I'm torn between studying an MBA, or an MSc in Computational Trading + Finance.
Can you tell me a little bit about this MSc stuff
Does it land me in trading?
Idk if you read before hand but I want to become a trader and im doing engineering/commerce next year probably going to do computer engineering and finance major for commerce and I have family and family friend connections to accounting firms and an IB so it's not like I don't have a chance.
Supply Chain Management is very meme. You don't need to specialize in that to be effective and I doubt potential employers care if you majored in it.
Information Systems is slightly less meme in the sense that some jobs will actually look for it. But it's as close to shit tier as tech jobs get.
What are some relatively easy to break into, decent paying jobs an economics major with no internships during university can do?
My uni is top 20 within the UK (Russell Group) but not a 'target' as far as top firms are concerned.
I'd ideally not like to do audit/accounting.
I'm considering Business Management Consulting, but idk if there are many mid-level/boutique firms that take your 'average' graduate, outside of the top consulting firms (big 4 etc.)
afaik IB/Corporate Banking/Asset management is out of reach.
Was considering also retail/commercial banking
unlikely - sounds like a meme degree
brand name of your university counts - if UK based or wanting to work in London then:
Oxbridge/London(ICL, UCL, LSE)/Warwick + some of the French grandes écoles
if you're not doing a PhD but want to be some form of quant trader then the maths tripos at Cambridge is the god tier option... alternatively the Mathematical and Computational finance MSc at Oxford is well regarded.
To be honest, all I can tell you about is Management Consulting because that's my forté. If you've got IB connections are you're good though, it shouldn't be a huge task. If you have the enthusiasm to actively be investing personal time in asking about it, you're on the right track.
It sounds memey, agreed, but just looks interesting to be honest. I know which UK unis are the best (only considered the local because it has the second highest ranked management school in the UK). Also what the fuck is ICL? I have the industry contacts, technical knowledge, and professional experience, all I lack is the university accreditation (degree largely unrelated).
Go to community college.
What do you both do?
My mother is a travel agent while doing shipping to south america.
She owns her own business and I choose to help her out as an unpaid employee, allowing me a full pell grant
I only have 1 more semester to be able to get CPA qualifications
Be frugal, youre learning to work with money so start now.
>brand name counts
I live in Australia and I think we only have 2 top 50 unis. I'll sus out about transferring to one of those, also about transferring to a top European Union (I can get an EU if I want)
Ah never heard Imperial reference by that name. Well I mean, I can always stay in my current career path and hit Partner in 15-20 years, it's just a temporary change of scenery that tempts me. I've yet to see any it that rivals the lifestyle and salary of partnership without setting up my own firm.
I think this depends on the type of teacher that you become and where you're situated. I am supposedly enrolled into a teaching masters degree starting this year. I finished a mathematics honours degree in 2014 and couldn't land any kind of job in my city or in Australia for that matter without fucking my self (financially) for it. I turned down a few graduate positions because I didn't want to contribute to companies that produced a fuck ton of problems in our society in the first place (I was offered positions at Sportsbet and Woolworthes).
I also don't want to pursue a phd in mathematics because that would only dig myself deeper into the hole that I am already in. If I join the military here, that might be a viable option for me because I can pay off my debt for the degree and acquire some real skills. Otherwise teaching seems like a good position for me, because I am a part of a research team here for geriatrics where I do statistics for them.
If you become a primary school teacher or teach english then yeah I agree, you weren't exactly cut out for the real world.
Work for a mining company, 80k a year. Work in oil and gas? 100k+ per year.
PA sits on top of the largest natural gas deposit in the country, the marcellus shale.
Or Alaska, Nevada, Arizona, for mining.
I'm going to Mac
That's the best local uni I got in to
It's not a bad Uni, average ranking in Australia is 9th, but, it kust misses out on the go8. However, time (I think it was time magazine) rated macs MBA as the best in Australia.
Apparently it's really hard to get a distinction average in engineering, so it might not be possible to transfer to a go8 uni (I inquired to sydney and they said distinction average)
Mac's pretty cool. I'm studying David Christian, who pioneered Big History there, at the moment. I'm just pissed off that I can't get a job in Canberra to go to school at the top International Relations/History country.
I predict you'll go better than I did (linguistics/philosophyfag, although I got an entertaining job that pays well enough).
I've said this before in another thread, but anyone in Australia who gets in at the ground floor in agricultural management/investment right now is going to be sitting very pretty in the next couple of decades. If I had commerce and engineering up my sleeve I'd be looking into that as mining isn't as vigorous as it used to be. I'm looking into a few different things though. If you can get into a transnational corporation you'll be set, because for the foreseeable future politicians have their hands tied and no choice except to make trade as free as possible.
>anything involving gas and oil distribution
>but I know those will definitely guarantee you a job after graduating
organized crime > all
>tfw making 5 billion a year