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What's a bigger ROI (return on investment)?...
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What's a bigger ROI (return on investment)? Getting a 2 or 4 year degree or learning a trade?

I'm an almost 24 year old guy that wants to start his own business by the time he hits his thirties.

Pic not related but it's a nice fucking bedroom
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trade. employers are catching on to the degree meme
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>>1022159
Would you say that electrical is a good one?
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>>1022161
electrical
welding
machinery
trades are in demand right now
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>>1022169
Cool, thanks. Would you recommend union or non union for an apprenticeship?
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careful, that room is almost looking dome-ish. You wouldn't want to get me started on domes.

Your question is pretty much unanswerable because it depends on the current job market, the future one, your general life plans and your personal attributes.

I'm in a trade and it's pretty good, I think you can move into management/ownership pretty easily just by not being shitty at your job.
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>>1022103
4 year degree is best ROI overall. Many companies and jobs pay you more money JUST because you have a degree, even the exact same position where people without degrees work... That's not to mention the ability to move up as well. With a degree you get tons of opportunities, without you'll more or less be stuck in one spot eventually.

Trades starts off quite well with how much you're paid relative to how little you've been trained/in school for... But very quickly it stagnates and you'll be making a relatively shitty wage for how physical and boring the work is.

>>1022159
Trades are a much bigger meme.

Lower barrier of entry = More uneducated retards who think "Oh wow easy money" to compete with.

Getting an apprenticeship as a beginner is actually quite hard nowadays unless you know people.
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>>1022172
We're not talking about the goddamn bedroom. And I don't want to be a manager. My father was his own manager and business owner and he didn't do well because he wasn't a good manager. I'd hate managing people. I'd rather someone do it for me.

>>1022177
>Trades starts off quite well with how much you're paid relative to how little you've been trained/in school for... But very quickly it stagnates and you'll be making a relatively shitty wage for how physical and boring the work is.

Wrong
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>>1022177
>Getting an apprenticeship as a beginner is actually quite hard nowadays unless you know people.

Also wrong
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>>1022170
i don't think it matters but it probably depends

>>1022177
nah. degrees are a meme. do you know how many retards there are in colleges that just barely pass to graduate?
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>>1022184
Well it's either I go through the skills center which is in niggerville or through the IBEW and go the union way. I was in a union before but the UFCW when I worked at a grocery store.
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>>1022184
And agreed. Degrees are a fucking meme. I know a guy who graduated with a 4 year degree in geology that manages a fucking dollar store. He failed at life.
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>>1022178
>Wrong

But this is true.

Why are you asking a question if you know the answer(or think you know) ahead of time?

>>1022182
>Also wrong

Also true.

Try making a job posting on your local craigslist or whatever right now for 1st year apprenticeships for whatever trade at ~1 am.

You will get 20+ emails by the next morning. It's heavily overflowed because of the low barrier of entry. Everyone who either dropped out of HS or is too dumb thinks just like you: "Oh wow I can just become an electrician and make $40/hr with 6 months of training!"
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>>1022190
>And agreed. Degrees are a fucking meme. I know a guy who graduated with a 4 year degree in geology that manages a fucking dollar store. He failed at life.

More like HIS degree is a meme... Fucking geology?

If you network well, study, join clubs and do internships while majoring in something not retarded then it is NOT a meme in any way.
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>>1022192
Do you even know how long an apprenticeship in my state is, degreefag? Five long years. Longer than your four year degree. An apprentice starts out little and then makes more each year as they earn more hours on the job. Fuck, you don't know shit.

>>1022193
He wanted to be a geologist. Don't know why. What did you study? Let me guess. Something STEM related? I would rather not waste four years in college without a guarantee that I will have a nice paying job at the end of it.
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>>1022194
>I would rather not waste four years in college without a guarantee that I will have a nice paying job at the end of it.

But you do.

Everyone who actually put effort and majored in STEM got several (appealing) job offers upon graduation, or even fulltime job offers before graduation.

Also why are you speaking condescendingly and as if you know anything when you are almost 24 years old and didn't go to college NOR did you pursue a trade. You've literally done nothing for 6 years since graduating HS and you seem to be talking from some high place as if you've done anything at all or even know anything about the world.

Whatever I'm closing this thread now, good luck with your life.
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>>1022200
>Hurr get a degree bro. Go and work for someone else.

You know nothing, kid. Nothing at all. Enjoy your student loan debt and ignorance.
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>>1022200
>Everyone who actually put effort and majored in STEM got several (appealing) job offers upon graduation, or even fulltime job offers before graduation.

Right, but are they owning their own businesses? No. They're working for someone else and making the other person even richer. I don't want to be someone's bitch, get it, child?
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>Asks for help
>Acts like he knows it all already

Why are you even here, OP? Anons are trying to help you see past your own ignorance, but you've got the door barricaded.
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>>1022212
Because I don't take shit from know-it-all college kids. And I really don't want their advice unless they're making close to six figures. If you're making $45-50k a year after getting a 4 year degree, I don't want your advice. I want a fucking Porsche, not a Kia.
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>>1022204
>You know nothing, kid. Nothing at all. Enjoy your student loan debt and ignorance.

And what have you done in your life?

You're almost 24, I presume you have not attended college AND you have not pursued a trade. What have you done from 18-24?

>They're working for someone else and making the other person even richer. I don't want to be someone's bitch, get it, child?

Why did you make the thread if you refuse to listen to anything besides what you've decided on beforehand?

>If you're making $45-50k a year after getting a 4 year degree, I don't want your advice. I want a fucking Porsche, not a Kia.

And how much are you making at (almost) 24?

You have achieved nothing in your life whatsoever and yet you're talking down on people and feeling superior despite being a literal loser. Do you still with your parents? How much do you currently make?
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>>1022204
>>Hurr get a degree bro. Go and work for someone else.
>You know nothing, kid. Nothing at all. Enjoy your student loan debt and ignorance.

"I'm smarter than all those dumb idiot wagecucks who work for someone else because I read some article saying you should work for yourself even though I haven't accomplished anything in my life by 24 years old!"

Do you see the irony in your posts? I know I said I wouldn't reply anymore but this is just too good.

Why make a thread when you're uninterested in anything that is said and you'll just reply "no it's not you're dumb" even though you haven't done it and likely don't know anyone who has(otherwise you'd have done it yourself by now)?

Last post this time for real tho, wasting too much time on idiotic NEETs
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>>1022217
>>1022228
I don't have to take this shit from some 20 something who probably works at Target.
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>>1022228
I smell student debt and a worthless degree in your post
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>>1022103

Trade. It's not just a meme anon.
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>>1022239
I do too. Fuck this wagecuck.
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>>1022217
>>1022228
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>>1022240
This guy >>1022217 doesn't think it's a meme. He thinks I'm some idiot for wanting to have job security and the possibility of owning my own business. He thinks that if you don't have a four year degree because his guidance counselor told him to get one then you're scum.
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http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/09/news/economy/college-not-worth-it-goldman/

in europe i would go to free college prolly. in usa i would never pay to go to school
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>>1022246
Exactly. College is just a fucking business and these millenial fuckwads don't understand that they're just a dollar sign to these universities.
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>>1022217
>If you're making $45-50k a year after getting a 4 year degree, I don't want your advice. I want a fucking Porsche, not a Kia.

And what do YOU offer in return for solid advice? You entitled fuckwit.
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>>1022246
Another thing I wanted to ask. What do you do for a living?
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>>1022251
My undivided attention, anon.
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>>1022254
Hahaha that is of no value to anyone.
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>>1022103
I'm 25 and I have a 2 year degree from a community college and almost went to a 4 year but dropped out a month before transferring.

I now make 100k in commission sales. Once I master the art of persuasion and have a ton of money saved up I also plan on starting my own business. Something in finance, money is very interesting.
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>>1022256
Well do you make over $50k a year? If not then shut the fuck up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-yHQn4ECio
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>>1022252
I have a finance degree (lol, for free, government pays unis here) but I haven't never worked in that industry really. I work for a small company owned by my relatives.
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>>1022257
>commission
You know you could have went to school for three months, got a real estate license, and done the same fucking thing, you autistic piece of garbage shit?
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>>1022257
Anything you learn in school you can learn on the Internet. School isn't worth it unless you need a specific degree like law or medicine and even then there are law and med schools that don't require degrees just a solid entry test score and prerequisite classes

School isn't worth it, but educations is priceless. I watch finance classes from MIT on YouTube for free
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>>1022261
What kind of company?
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>>1022267
Technology
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>>1022272
What are they paying you?
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>>1022258
Confirmed troll; abandon thread
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>>1022258
>Well do you make over $50k a year? If not then shut the fuck up.

Do you?

Lmao you're 24 and you've done nothing
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>>1022273
A decent average salary. Actually for the working hours it's pretty good
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>>1022263
Lol plebs like you think you're so smart. Yet you're the one asking for advice on /biz/ and you have accomplished nothing. Where is your real estate license?

Dumbass
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>>1022276
I'm asking you.

>>1022277
What's decent and average to you?

>>1022278
I've been to real estate school. dude. Commission sales are a waste of fucking time. You probably sell cars or some shit. Kill yourself.
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>>1022281
>I've been to real estate school. dude. Commission sales are a waste of fucking time. You probably sell cars or some shit. Kill yourself.

But how much do you make per year, anon? :^)
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>>1022281
What do you think starting you're business means? It's commission sales you only make money when you sell shit. If you've tried it before and quit it means you didn't try to get better. Sales is the most important thing in business. I sell solar, even if I did sell cars id kill it and still be making as much I do.
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>>1022283
Nigga, I asked YOU. If you don't want to answer, that means you make nothing.
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>>1022287
>sells solar
>thinks he's the shit
>realizes that he's easily replaceable because they can just hire another loser from the street to approach people in a fucking Home Depot or Lowes.
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>>1022289
But you also don't want to answer so that means you make nothing as well :^)
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>>1022293
I make close to $900 a month. It isn't shit, that's why I want to learn a skill and start my own business instead of burying myself in debt with college. The only thing I'd go to college for is probably dental hygiene because it's in high demand and it pays well. I doubt you even make 50k a year, bro. Y u so mad?
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>>1022295
So why didn't you start a business or learn a trade in the last 6 years you were out of HS if it is so easy then? :^)

You keep telling us how everyone who works for someone else or work for commission or does anything except be a CEO of a fortune 500 company is a cuckold wageslave and how easy it is to start a business and make over $50k/yr but you are not doing it :^)
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>>1022292
You seem really smart. You should be writing books on making $900 a month. I'm sure you'll sell a lot and get rich quick. Good luck pleb, you'll need a lot of it!
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>>1022295
>$900/month

laughingwhores.jpeg
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>>1022301
Because I worked. Then I stopped working. Now I want to work again. This time making more than 8.50/hr
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>>1022301
>>1022310
>>1022311
Have an orgy and then kill yourselves, wagecucks.
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>>1022312
You worked? For someone else? For $8.50?

But that's for cuckold wageslaves! Why didn't you just start a successful business or become a tradesman cleaning other people's shitty toilets all day long?
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>>1022313
Commissioncuck making more in a week than you do in a month
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>>1022314
Because that's what I did...for 8.50 an hour. Learn to read, kiddo.
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>>1022313
The funniest part is that $900/month is like 11k a year and you're shitting on those making 45-50k.

Literally 4 and a half times your earning power.
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>>1022316
Yet having to bust his ass and work 70 hours a week for it. I can inspect element too, faggot.
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>>1022320
That's what it takes to be rich kid, better learn that now rather than later.
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>>1022318
No, I'm shitting on those with 4 year degrees that only make 50k a year when you can make that with just a HS diploma. Get it now? Nope? Still stupid? Thought so.
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>>1022313
But you are a wagecuck :^)

And have always been a wagecuck, and will always be a wagecuck :^)

Go on, study plumbing science or whatever so that you can fix my toilet when the nice food I can afford with my Finance internship clogs my toilet. And oh boy do I love to eat, good thing I can afford it too ;)


Don't worry, I'll pay you some money for your troubles, it's not very much to me but maybe for you it'll make touching my feces worth it.
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>>1022322
>100k a year
>having to do your own taxes because you're 1099
>so therefore paying out the ass in taxes.

They taught me that in RE school, kiddo. Most people in commission owe back taxes. Enjoy your shitty life of selling solar panels to people, dude.
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>>1022323
>No, I'm shitting on those with 4 year degrees that only make 50k a year when you can make that with just a HS diploma

But you only have an HS diploma and you AREN'T making that.

So what's your excuse?

>I'm 24 and I make <$15k/yr. Degrees are for wageslave cuckolds! You can make $50k/yr with no debt and no degree I swear!!!!

>But I'm not making it right now... I will though... Other people are and I will too very soon
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>>1022323
The point is you're not making nearly that kind of money. Even if I was in debt, I can still get bank credit and get decent wheels, somewhere to live with a job that pays "only 50k", You get nothing with your shitty McJob. Humble yourself because employers aren't looking for entitled workers.

Srsly trying to help you.
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>>1022325
LMFAO FINANCE INTERNSHIP? SO THAT MEANS YOU'RE GOING TO BE WORKING FOR FREE? AS IN BEING SOMEONE ELSE'S BITCH? HOLY FUCK NOW I KNOW THE TRUTH.

Finance is for faggots. You'll be working at a bank FOR SOMEONE ELSE. While your boss is driving a Bentley or a Lambo, you'll be driving a fucking Hyundai. I hope you enjoy mediocrity because finance degrees are terrible. Hope you like doing lots and lots of paperwork, kid.

Also, I said I wanted to do an ELECTRICAL apprenticeship. You know, wiring and what not? Of course not, you're autistic. You'll be working for TD Bank sooner than later.
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>>1022170
union gets you more money but it is a long term commitment. you also have to work where they tell you, so you could be doing alot of traveling. i value freedom more than security so i dont work with a union at this time. If you are going to go the union route, I recommend working in a large city in a non-southern state.
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>>1022334
>bank credit
>decent wheels
>mfw the bank repos your shit when you cant pay the note

>>1022337
I live in the northeast so I'd be working in Cecil County and New Castle County. You can figure out where that is. And I'd love to travel. Idc. Money is money.

>>1022330
You're not making 50k a year either, bro. You're going to be making NOTHING during that internship as well.
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>>1022335
>LMFAO FINANCE INTERNSHIP? SO THAT MEANS YOU'RE GOING TO BE WORKING FOR FREE? AS IN BEING SOMEONE ELSE'S BITCH? HOLY FUCK NOW I KNOW THE TRUTH.

$30/hr and looks great on my resume.

I am literally making 3x as much as you AT AN INTERNSHIP. In an air conditioned office, building a great resume.

>Also, I said I wanted to do an ELECTRICAL apprenticeship. You know, wiring and what not? Of course not, you're autistic. You'll be working for TD Bank sooner than later.

You've had 6 years to do that, why haven't you gotten started?

>While your boss is driving a Bentley or a Lambo, you'll be driving a fucking Hyundai

While you're riding the bus or a 10 year old honda civic :^)
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>>1022339
>You're not making 50k a year either, bro. You're going to be making NOTHING during that internship as well.

True, but I am making $30/hr and it's enough for me currently(although I do not work full time of course)

How's mcdonalds treating ya?
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>>1022340
Sorry, kiddo but internships aren't paid. Don't know who told you that.

Pic related: who you picture as yourself

>>1022344
>making 30 an hour
Prove it. Timestamp a fucking paystub right now.
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>college is a meme
This is also a meme. This meme is spewed by high school grads or dropouts. In reality college grads are on track to make 3x times what high school grads make. The last time it was this high was in the first world war. Millennials enter college but less than 20% graduate. I forgot what study it was but millennials are likely to be less college educated than xers and boomers. This will create a boom for college degrees. Also trades are oversatruated and the promise of a high paying career in those jobs are happen in unions which are hard to get into these days. If you're non-union than you're making less than a McDick employee. The trades are flooded because high school grads and dropouts think this is their salvation. When in reality Juan, Da Fouc, or Li Ching Wang can do the job cheaper and often in superior condition than your average Amerilard tradesmen. College grads are literally living on easy street. They have the luxury of being unemployed and then getting a basic college degree job and moving onto another job. This is something high school grads cannot do. I am CFA so I know what talking about.
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wawaweewoo

that escalated quickly.

so the problem with trades is your wage hits a ceiling and you either go into management at an existing company or you start your own company. I dunno about the stem thing but there is a lot of debt but what gets me is all the sitting around.
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>>1022351
"If we are lending money that ostensibly we don't have to kids who have no hope of making it back in order to train them for jobs that clearly don't exist, I might suggest that we've gone around the bend a little bit," says TV personality Mike Rowe. Rowe is the longtime host of Discovery Channel's Dirty Jobs, where he takes on gigs straight out of Bob Dylan songs: working on fishing boats, sewer systems, oil derricks, slaughterhouses, and more.

"There is a real disconnect in the way that we educate vis-a-vis the opportunities that are available," he adds. "You have right now about 3 million jobs in transportation, commerce, and trades that can't be filled."

reason: We're doing everything we can to push every kid to go to a four-year college. What's wrong there?

Mike Rowe: It's not working. You've got a trillion dollars in debt on the student loan side. We have a skills gap.

reason: What do you mean by skills gap?

Rowe: You have right now about 3 million jobs in transportation, commerce, and trades that can't be filled.

reason: This is anything from carpentry to being an electrician, a plumber, construction-

Rowe: Heating, electric, truck drivers. Welders is a big one. There's a long list of jobs that parents typically don't sit down and say to their kids: "Look, if all goes well, this is what you're going to do."

reason: But these are actually jobs that are not only available but pay well.

Rowe: Yes, is the short answer. But of course, "pay well" is kind of relative. What they are mostly, in my opinion, are opportunities. A good welder right now can pretty much write his or her own ticket. Companies like Caterpillar, Bechtel, you can go down the list: They have had open shortages for decades. I talked to a kid the other day up in Butler, North Dakota. So it's Butler, right? It's cold. But he works on heavy equipment up there, makes over $100 an hour, works when he wants, paid for his house in cash, etc, etc.
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>>1022349
>Sorry, kiddo but internships aren't paid
Yes they are, and if you get "unpaid" internship then you can sue the company for breaching labor laws. Companies don't want you to this but if you called them out on that bullshit they'll pay you. Its lie when they can't afford to pay you. When they're really saying is we hope you don't know that being unpaid is illegal and we'll keep up this charade until you're gone. People have sue companies and won millions of dollars just because companies are cheap to pay them. Other time they settle out of court and pay them an undisclosed amount and a job.
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>>1022190
>>1022194
>>1022204
>>1022207
>>1022213
>>1022238
>>1022241
>>1022243
>>1022245
>>1022249
>>1022254
>>1022258
>>1022263
>>1022267
>>1022273
>>1022281
>>1022289
>>1022292
>>1022295
>>1022312
>>1022313
Oh good, I'm glad you made up your mind three posts into the thread, the 4chan way! Unless of course this is another /r9k/ circlejerk thread, which I'm guessing it is, seeing how you unironically used the term wagecuck, and admitted to being a NEET. You know, I was actually going to agree with you, that the trade pays more for about 20 years, and the 10 years of making less pays off with the ridiculous pension the employee of any good union gets, and I also agree with >>1022245, that high schools, especially ones that have vocational classes, should push kids that clearly won't get a four year degree into trades. Having said that, you're an idiot. Four year degrees are still incredibly valuable, even if you major in fucking basket weaving, because there are plethora of general jobs (i.e. secretary, office drone, freight conductor) that require you have a bachelors degree, not because they care about what you learned from your specialization (however as long as you major in anything but the arts, you've now opened yourself up to entry level management, operations, finance, and whatnot), but they care about what you learned generally, and that you have the capability to take classes for four years and not drop out. And then of course, there are things that you do specialize in, that can give you jobs in that field. Yes, some degrees are stupid, and some degrees won't make you as much money as your mother said it would (which is why you ALWAYS major in something you actually WANT to do, not something you do for the money, because that's when you start to hate your job, your day, and your life), but calling college a meme in and of itself is silly.
>>
reason: Instead, we're telling everybody you've got to get that sheepskin, you've got to get the college B.A., otherwise you're not going to be happy or have any opportunity.

Rowe: It feels that way to me. That was my experience in high school, and I still hear the same platitudes today.

reason: You have a great story about your high school guidance counselor.

Rowe: Mr. Dunbar, yeah. He called me down, as millions of kids have been called down, to talk about my future. He was looking at some test scores and said, "You're not an idiot. You've got a shot at James Madison University in Maryland, maybe some other schools." I said, "I don't have any money, but more importantly, I don't have any idea what I want to do. So, while I figure that out, I thought I'd go to a community college." At which point he says, "Well, that's way below your potential," and pointed to the poster that said "Work Smart, Not Hard."

The thing about the poster wasn't just the bromide at the bottom. It was the image. On the left-hand side you've got a college graduate, recently matriculated, cap and gown, sun setting behind him, looking like he owns the world and the future. Next to him is a mechanic, holding a wrench, covered in grease or something worse, looking at the ground like he won the vocational consolation prize of all time. That was a very specific PR campaign for college, higher education.

reason: This was the late '70s?

Rowe: 1979, yeah. All PR campaigns always go too far, and they always, it seems, promote the thing they want to focus on at the expense of something else. Now, it's kind of egregious in education, but in my opinion, it shouldn't be shocking, because the best way to sell a truck is to talk about how lousy the competitor is. The best way to get elected is to talk about how creepy your opponent is. The best way to really promote college hard is to talk about how subordinate all the other opportunities are.
>>
>>1022351
This is 100% true.

OP is a troll though. I think I'm just going to start telling idiots to go into Trades so that they break their back for 30+ years for a shit wage.

We do need people to clean our toilets and build things for us. We can't all enjoy comfy positions.

>>1022349
>Sorry, kiddo but internships aren't paid. Don't know who told you that.
Are you retarded?

No wonder you're so against college, you think that Bachelors degree = $50k+ debt, unpaid internships and working min wage just like you are now
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>>1022365
Tell that to my cousin who made a million dollars one year as an electrician who owns his own business, Mr. I Make 30 Bucks An Hour.
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>>1022357
>>1022364
>Some random guy said it that means it's true!!!!

In fact you've given me a good idea.

I'm going to start telling all these retards to go into trades because it's "redpilled" and "you'll make amazing money instead of being a wageslave cuck". Less competition for people who are actually smart lmao.

Thanks OP! I've got some /r9k/ and /pol/ threads to make to lessen my Finance bros and I's competition.
>>
>>1022357
>transportation, commerce, and trades that can't be filled.
They are filled. Trades are literally flooded with new blood. The problem is we don't want to pay you the livable wages. We want you to work as a slave. Also Mike Rowe is a fcukign shill. Look who is representing on tv, and then you'll see why he is selling you this lie. The oil fields are not operating and most of those workers were laid off, and now oil companies white collar jobs are on the chopping block because 2016 is going to be another bloodbath year for oil prices. Keep blaming others for your problems and saying its economy.
>>
>>1022365
This guy must be a troll. Where's that pay stub, slick?

>>1022369
Mike Rowe said it. And he's saying it all over the country, dumbass.
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>>1022368
>Tell that to my cousin who made a million dollars one year as an electrician who owns his own business, Mr. I Make 30 Bucks An Hour.

So why didn't you ask to work with him? You've had 6 years to do so :^)

Are you telling me you chose to work your $8.50/hr job at McDonalds over working with your cousin who is a millionaire?
>>
>>1022373
Just show me that pay stub. Until then get the fuck out of my thread.
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>>1022372
>Mike Rowe said it. And he's saying it all over the country, dumbass.

And? He's a fucking television star.

Tons of people say you should go to College and get a degree but you say "No they're lying to me and cuckolding me! But Mike Rowe said you should become a tradesman and he's right!"
>>
>>1022375
reason: When did the idea disappear that you should learn a skill that is actually useful or in need, and that you should work hard?

Rowe: That's a good question for a real social anthropologist. My own opinion is just that there's a kind of inertia that most parents would agree exists, and it's the desire to see something better for your kids than you had. The question is: What is better? Is it better right now today to have $140,000 in debt but a degree from Georgetown in law? Or is it better to be that kid I described up in Butler? I don't know. But there is an inertia that says the first one is a better thing.
>>
>>1022372
>>1022374
>Thinking I'm going to waste my time trying to show you anything when you're just going to say "Lol nice inspect element/u probably scanned it and then photoshopped it and printed it out again!"

There's no proof I could show you that you would not just claim is fake.
>>
>>1022360
They're jealous that the kid with a degree in dick sucking studies is going ot make more than 3x times what the tradesmen are going ot make. College grads average wages are skewed by recent grads because there is always more new grads than old. By ten year mark they're making 70-105k. While high school grad is making 20-45k.
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>>1022377
Then I don't believe you. Timestamp the fucking thing then. Show me a paper pay stub. You should have one if you are working, cuck.
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>>1022380
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>>1022376
>Your only option is being $140k in debt or to be a hardworking construction worker!!!!

Love these strawmans.

>All people who go to college take out massive loans and don't work during school and don't receive any job offers either while in school or upon graduating!

>But all tradesmen make $50/hr as an apprentice until starting their own business and becoming multi-millionaires!!!

You do realize that neither I nor any of my friends are graduating with much, if any debt, right?
Grants/scholorships + internships + working during school cover nearly all of it.
>>
>>1022368
>electrician
>million dollar
I think you mean a million Zimbabwe dollars. You don't understand the law of average. Tradesmen always top out around 40-50k. Its a flooded field by design.
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>>1022161

Electrician's apprentice here. AMA.
>>
>>1022387
Union or non-union?
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>>1022382
Well then since you haven't replied to me directly (I wonder why!) why don't you actually prove him wrong, instead of posting something from memegenerator? Seeing how proofs are so important to you >>1022381
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>>1022351
false. college degrees are oversaturated as fuck. degreefags are just brainwashed tards who don't want to face the inevitable fact that they need to be forced in order to learn anything because they have no self-discipline and that their useless piece of paper that they paid thousands of dollars for doesn't even gaurantee them a job. what's more is that employers are catching on and instead of hiring the dumb college grad who spent some of their time partying and drinking and smoking weed, they'll hire the guy who has experience in working any job except shit like retail or cashier-type shit. college is for scrubs
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>>1022383
I graduated with 18k in debt. I've had a few offers but they were shit and wanted to screw me over. A generic BA can give a wonderful life. A high school diploma will lead you to poverty.
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>>1022385
No I think I mean one million US dollars, pal. He got big contracts for a gigantic mall in Delaware and did a lot of big time work on renovating it. I can show you his website if you'd like.

http://www.conestogacreekelectric.com/4.html

Read it and realize that this man has made more than all of you college fags in here combined.
>>
>>1022388

I'm in the South, so it's not worth it to be union. So no.
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>>1022396
Then how do you have any job protection? Also what year of your apprenticeship are you into?
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>>1022390
>, they'll hire the guy who has experience in working any job except shit like retail or cashier-type shit. college is for scrubs
That's not true. If that was the case then ageism wouldn't exist. In the tech industry you're fired by the age of 30. Those places look like summer camp with very few adults. College degrees aren't oversaturated. The economy took a dump but its recovering. High school grads were fucked so hard that you guys lost 10% of your real wages since 2008.
>>
>>1022390
/thread
>>
>>1022396
Move to a union friendly state, amigo. You won't regret it. They'll pay you well. Non-union tradesmen get fucked by their employers.
>>1022395
>one guy
>he makes more than all of college grads in history
That fucking hyperbole, and strawman. If he's making a million dollars than he's getting fucked in taxes. He's most likely taking home 100-200k.
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>>1022395
>over 20 years experience
Hmm, but I thought you all made six figures starting?
>>1022390
See >>1022360
And yes, good experience can substitute for a degree, but it's not the 50s anymore, where you can just demonstrate you know something and they'll hire you. You need something to get that experience.
>>
>>1022392
Yup.

If you major in something non-shit and you put THE LEAST FUCKING BIT OF EFFORT IN, you will be in an amazing spot.

Every single person I know who put any effort into networking with alumni/students/profs and majored in STEM has a very comfortable life that someone without a degree could only wish for.
>>
>>1022402
It is true. I've seen it happen. They'll rather hire the guy with the experience over the little pissant collegecuck with no experience.

>>1022407
I said he made that for one year. And that's not how taxes work dude. I've done taxes for people and you know nothing about taxes. He had business expenses and shit and probably took home well over a quarter million.
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>>1022412
> I talked to a kid the other day up in Butler, North Dakota. So it's Butler, right? It's cold. But he works on heavy equipment up there, makes over $100 an hour, works when he wants, paid for his house in cash, raising a family, no debt. People don't tell his story.

Until you make $100 an hour, shut the fuck up, wage cuck.
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>>1022413
>It is true. I've seen it happen. They'll rather hire the guy with the experience over the little pissant collegecuck with no experience.

So why didn't they hire you? Why are you still 24 years old working min wage, always planning for the future?

People your age have already graduated and have 2 years experience under their belt, all you have is your plans about how "i'll be driving a porsche" "I'll have a mansion" with nothing to show for it.
>>
>>1022400

Making dinner for myself, so responses might be far apart. 2nd year apprentice making $16/hr in Florida. Given low cost of living, it's pretty good.

My family is from New York, and a lot of my cousins ask the same Union question. Just get a job with a good company. If you're a smart, good worker, they'll hold on to you. If not, getting a new job for ~the same pay isn't too hard.

>>1022407

Golden handcuffs, bruv.
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>>1022415
>Makes up some fake person who goes entirely against the average salary or what commonly occurs

Do you seriously trust a fucking TV star over statistics regarding average salaries?

What you're saying makes no sense.
>They hire people with some experience but no degree over people with degree but no experience! It's easy to make over $50k/yr with only a HS diploma
>But I haven't done it and I've had 6 years to do it... Maybe I'll get to it eventually...
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>>1022416
lmao WHO SAID THAT I WORKED?

You have NO experience other than that future internship but you could be lying about that.

>>1022418
Goddamn, Florida doesn't pay shit. A union apprentice in Delaware would be making 20+ an hour at 2nd year.
>>
>>1022413
>They'll rather hire the guy with the experience over the little pissant collegecuck with no experience.
And this is why internships and co-ops exist. Notice how everyone who cries about them needing experience didn't do either of those.
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>>1022420
>fake person

So Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs is fake, right? https://reason.com/archives/2014/03/20/diplomas-vs-dirty-jobs

This whole thing is fake, right? Him going to Congress is also fake right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NwEFVUb-u0

>>1022424
They want PAID experience, cuck.
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>>1022422

Cost of living. I can buy a decent house for $50k.
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>>1022422
>lmao WHO SAID THAT I WORKED?

You said it.

>You have NO experience other than that future internship but you could be lying about that.

I have more experience at making more money than you do.

You are 24 with only near minimum wage experience. I am younger than you, pretty close to finishing my degree and ALREADY making more money than you have ever made.
>>
>>1022427
>They want PAID experience, cuck.
No, they don't. Find me a single employer for an ENTRY-LEVEL position, where they turn down people who have only had internships.
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>>1022428
Enjoy your trailer.
>>
>>1022429
I USED to work. Now I don't. Keep up, autist.

>>1022432
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>>1022432
He can't.

He's never gone to college, he has spent 6 years not doing jackshit except some near min-wage work.

Yet he so adamantly holds his opinions as truths.
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>>1022435
>I USED to work. Now I don't. Keep up, autist.

So now you're unemployed?

That's even fucking worse, now instead of being a minwage cuck you're a NEET.

How do you have the audacity to ridicule people making $50k/yr when you've never made anywhere near that much?
>>
IT is the best trade imo
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>>1022433

Plus, the Mouse pays my state income tax.
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>>1022415
The thing is, the average person doesn't want to live in North Dakota with 0 job stability, and having to move if anything happens to their job. NS pays their supervisors (who are 23, college graduates), $75K starting, but they put you in bumfuck nowhere, work shit hours (like the guy you were talking about), and move you around a lot.
>inb4 100k>75k
Seeing how he's raising a family, I'm assuming he's not 23 himself.
>>1022435
Right, someone who has never gone to college or done an internship is an expert in the field. Better delete my post from getting BTFOed so hard so people don't make fun of me.
>>
>>1022436
>thinking that I need to go to college to justify any means.

Holy fuck you are delusional. I bet mommy and daddy paid for that goddamn degree. I bet your mommy and daddy paid for your car. For where you live. For your tuition, room, board, etc. For everything. I bet you had a silver spoon in your fucking mouth your entire life and some dumbass Mr. Mackey looking fucker told you to "work smart, not hard", right?

So you took your SATs or ACTs and went off to college for four years studying finance, got your bachelors degree, got your little pissant internship and now have this snot nosed fucking attitude towards anyone that doesn't have a degree or higher education.

You have to understand, kid. Education can be anything. It doesn't have to be a degree. It's just learning something. You read a book, that's education because you learned something. You read a news article, you learned something. Is that not education? I would say it is.
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>>1022446
>So you took your SATs or ACTs and went off to college for four years studying finance, got your bachelors degree, got your little pissant internship and now have this snot nosed fucking attitude towards anyone that doesn't have a degree or higher education.

What the fuck are you talking about?

You're the one with a "snot nosed" attitude despite never having achieved anything in your life.

You literally are talking down to people who make $50k/yr despite you having admittedly NEVER made anywhere near that amount.
>>
>>1022444
So the average person should get in debt? Is that what you're saying?
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>>1022448
Why is it in your retarded non-college educated brain does degree = $500k in debt like my hero Mike Rowe said?
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>>1022447
Pay stub or gtfo my thread, kid.

You really think I'm impressed with your degree? With your 30 bucks an hour? Shit there are fucking nurses that went to school for half the time you did that make more than that. Kill yourself, dude. Seriously. Get. The. Fuck. Over. Your. Self.
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>>1022449
Rowe: We hold the note. Whether I'm against it or not, I get a little curious about when it gets to a trillion dollars. If we are lending money that ostensibly we don't have to kids who have no hope of making it back in order to train them for jobs that clearly don't exist, I might suggest that we've gone around the bend a little bit.
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>>1022451
>You really think I'm impressed with your degree? With your 30 bucks an hour?

It's over 3 times as much as you have ever made.

>Shit there are fucking nurses that went to school for half the time you did that make more than that

But you are not making that.
>>
>>1022449
I bet you're a Bernie Sanders supporter that wishes college was free so you can feel even more justified that you wasted four fucking years of your life getting some piece of lambskin.
>>
>>1022446
>Holy fuck you are delusional. I bet mommy and daddy paid for that goddamn degree. I bet your mommy and daddy paid for your car. For where you live. For your tuition, room, board, etc. For everything. I bet you had a silver spoon in your fucking mouth your entire life and some dumbass Mr. Mackey looking fucker told you to "work smart, not hard", right?
>So you took your SATs or ACTs and went off to college for four years studying finance, got your bachelors degree, got your little pissant internship and now have this snot nosed fucking attitude towards anyone that doesn't have a degree or higher education.
Is that jealousy I here? BTW, any half way decent school that charges more than $30K will give you financial aid regardless of your grades.
>You have to understand, kid. Education can be anything. It doesn't have to be a degree. It's just learning something. You read a book, that's education because you learned something. You read a news article, you learned something. Is that not education? I would say it is.
Yeah, I can go to Tanzania and go to one of their universities. Do you know why it wouldn't get me a job back home?
>>1022448
It's very, VERY difficult to get more than $100K in college debt. If you want to pay it off right away, you can do this >>1022444 for four years, without having to live frugally (in which case you could do it in two, and still have the rest of your 20's to work where ever you want in whatever company you want, to grow roots there.
>>1022451
And Petroleum Engineers and Doctors are making $180K, what's your point.
>>
>>1022460
>I bet you're a Bernie Sanders supporter that wishes college was free so you can feel even more justified that you wasted four fucking years of your life getting some piece of lambskin.

Why would I wish College was free? I'm not complaining about the cost, you are.

It's a worthwhile investment for me that has already nearly paid itself back to me.
>>
>>1022459
You still have not proved that you make 30 dollars an hour. I'm waiting. I've got all night.
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>>1022462
>doctors making 180k a year
Check again
>>
>>1022467
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#19-0000
>>1022460
Only one person in this thread is using the cost of college as an argument.
>>
>>1022474
There are MDs that make way more than 180, dude.

How come this thread is more logical?

>>1021958
>>
>>1022494
>How come this thread is more logical?

Because it agrees with your opinion.

You made a thread asking a question and then when people tried to say anything besides what you had decided beforehand you just used ad-hominems or said some other retarded shit.

You clearly are interested in becoming a tradesman, so why even ask if you're not going to listen?
>>
>>1022499
Nigga, shut the fuck up. I'm done with you. I really am.
>>
>>1022494
Ok, and how does that somehow invalidate my point?
>>1022502
Ok? Lmao, you're arguing with people on a burmese septic tank cleaner chatroom, why are you getting so worked up?
>>
>Finish 4-year degree three weeks ago
>Instantly get a "merit" increase that puts my salary 25-30k more than my degreeless peers who have seniority over me and who just a month ago made more than me.

Lel I hope they don't find out.
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>>1022506
>>
>>1022507
>I'll take things that never fucking happened for 500, Alex
>>
so OP is loser who wants to drag others down.
Im a loser who want to not be one.

am basically the same as op situation (neet for 6 years after hs) but I will gladly take your advice?

going back to school in 2 weeks and will "earn' a general AA which i can then use to get into a special probationary period into a real university automatically, and if i pass that semester with at least a 2.5 my GPA resets.

I have interests in currency changing/exchanging and specifically would like to bring gold backed debit cards to the usa.

is pursuing a degree necessary to get into potential banking/finances/relevant degree? or should I try and get a job at a financial institution and work my way up? or do both?

give me your advice, i promise Im not an arrogant jack ass like op is, I genuinely am tired of my life.

I dont have many ideas of what specifically in business I would like bc I have been a piece of shit for so long I dont have many authentic goals. But working for myself interests me and I feel like "business" is the way to go bc Im not going to be an engineer and im not going to be a teacher. what do?

where can I go/what can I do to get into the real world, with or without a degree and learn what it means to be a real person?
>>
>>1022520
Nigga get your own goddamn thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqvP1DZQyRU
>>
>>1022515
My graduation coincided with my annual review. Management knew I could easily find a better paying job w/ a degree, so I had leverage to go over the top during negotiations.

Of course this is predicated by me being a successful employee that brings value to the company.
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>>1022520
Go here >>1021958
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>>1022512
You really showed me this time!
That reaction image not only made not just that post, but all the other ones you didn't respond to wrong, but it also shows how well you're taking this, and how much of an idiot I am. Well done.
>>
>>1022526
You should write novels, you boring son of a bitch.
>>
>>1022520
You would probably get better, more serious replies in another thread.
>>
>>1022531
>posts picture with weeaboo shit in it
Fuck off, weeb.
>>
>>1022534
No shit because all I got was a bunch of pompous fucking Abercrombie and Fitch wearing preps in this one.
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>>1022535
So you don't have any more arguments then? Just stop posting, we're all anonymous here, nobody outside of this thread is going to follow you around laughing at you that you quit when you lost.
>>
>>1022538
Nah I'm gonna shit post until the thread dies. Anyone gonna post their pay stub or what?
>>
>>1022532
epic :)

I bet that zinger has gotten you tons of upvotes
>>
>>1022212

This man, has spoken the truth.
>>
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So in actuality, I'm a journeyman electrician with plenty of money. I trolled all of you faggot ass college fucks.

Read it and weep.
>>
>>1022558
See >>1022320
>>
>>1022558
>Inspect element

It's obviously fake. No one keeps $80k in their checking account, that's fucking retarded.
>>
>>1022562
Don't believe me then. My Cayenne.
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>>1022563
It's for people that have a minimum balance of $2500, pleb.
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>>1022570
What's the point of letting $80k rot away to the tune of 2% inflation per year when they could be earning you money?

Nice btw. Pic related is my Aston Martin. And that's me in the suit next to it.
>>
>>1022576
It's earning interest, dumbass. And I also have a Vanguard account. Not showing a pleb like you that.
>>
>>1022577
>It's earning interest, dumbass

Less than inflation, by a lot.
>>
>>1022579
>implying you know anything about the account which holds not even all of my money.
Kid, shut up. Go get a blowjob or something. Why the fuck are you still talking to me?
>>
>>1022582
Acting tough on the internet won't get rid of your inferiority complex >>1022446
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>>1022585
>>
>>1022534
>>1022527
aight
>>
>>1022558
>80k in a saving account
AHAHHAHAHAHA.
>Inspect element
Its been changed.
>>
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>>1022591
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Alright OP, I will bite. I went to college on a full ride. I graduated at 22 and immediately started working in my field. During the year I earned $70,000. This does not include the 401k matching and extremely generous healthcare package. I never once worked a day in the service industry or manual labor. I have a comfortable 40 hr/wk job that I live a few miles away from. You'll probably ask for a pay stub, which I will be unable to provide as I have direct deposit, and I cannot currently access any pay statements as they aren't available remotely. The thing is, my case isn't a rarity. My story is fairly common when it comes to engineering graduates, it's not like anyone gets paid any less than I do, unless they're civil or something. The giant firm I work for gobbles up engineering graduates as quick as they can get their hands on them and they're one of hundreds in the United States alone. College recruitment programs in HR departments the country over wind their tendrils into every university career center under the sun. If you have an ounce of passion or talent they will take you, as long as you can stifle your autism for even a moment, but that's not really possible for you OP, is it?

I have never seen someone on 4chan act so insecure. It really is sad.
>>
>>1022844
This is what I've seen on numerous occasions.

The "STEM is a meme" meme is just that, a meme.

Countless engineers who just graduate with a bit of work put in(not top of class or geniuses by any means) get at least one if not more job offers.
>>
Also I'm trying to predict your responses here so:

I am a straight, white, American, able-bodied male
>>
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>>1022591
Joke's on you. His cash pocket did better than dow or sp in 2015. And hugely better when risk adjusted lol.
>>
>>1022103
You don't need a degree to stay a business so why even bother considering college?
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>>1022442
>Forkum

TOP FUCKING KEK
>>
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>>1022390
ok, go be a doctor or a quant with no degree then you fucking moron.

I once knew a guy with 30 years of exp but no degree in software dev earning the same as another with 4 years of exp but with a degree in software engineering IN THE SAME COMPANY.

Keep crying and never going to college finding excuses.
>>
>>1022989

if you fail to outperform someone with an education and 4 years of pro experience, while you habe 30 years of pro experience, you are just a fucking idiot. nothing to do with degree/no degree.
>>
>>1022844
Not talented enough for engineering. Too much math that I'm not good at. If I was being a dick yesterday, I apologize. I just want to be able to move the fuck out of my moms place, get a nicer car than my 2005 Toyota Highlander, and make good enough money to where I can go on vacations. As a kid, that was one thing I was never able to do. Never went to Disney or overseas or anything cool besides field trips.
>>
>>1022852
It's fake. Didn't you figure that out?
>>
>>1022883
Because I didn't know if I needed some sort of foundation before I started a business. You see when my father started his business (hair salon), my grandmother gave him money to start it. My mom doesn't have the ability to do that with me so that's why I have to be able to do it on my own.

I just want a lifestyle that makes my parents proud.
>>
>>1023321
Quit acting like a fucking refugee. If you can tell me how to make more money or save more money in my business, I'll hire you and and you can have all those things.

I'm not interested in what you want; I'm interested in what I want for my company.

If you can solve those two problems above, I'll give you that job.

-Any Employer
>>
>>1022103
I would say trades because there is a much, much lower startup cost

Experienced tradesmen make the same as a bachelor's holder or more

Furthermore, knowing a trade makes it much easier to start a business. There are tons of independent plumbers and electricians that make bank
>>
>>1023321
getting the degree is not one ounce harder than the labor you will have to perform as a tradesman

also I still can't do arithmetic without a calculator
>>
>>1023337
Then it seems like you need a consultant.
>>
>>1023344
That's all I wanted to know. Thank you.

>>1023376
Right, but has anyone ever gotten paid to earn a four year degree? No.
>>
>>1023376
Also, many men and women (yes women do trades too) find that labor and hard work fulfilling. They love the fact that they have to take a hot shower every day after work. They love the fact that they did something constructive with their hands.
>>
>>1023382

I get paid $1600 a month + book stipend to get a free MBA.

Got to love the post 911 GI Bill
>>
>>1023382
>has anyone ever gotten paid to earn a four year degree?
Technically if your financial aid exceeds the immediate costs charged by the university the surplus is deposited directly to you, which is getting paid to go to school. However, just being in the major and doing the coursework gets you access to summer internships which pay very well.
The last internship I worked at paid me $22/hr (as a stupid intern that didn't know shit).
And of course this is all anecdotal but I personally know tons of tradesmen and technicians who go and get degrees anyway because they're getting older and want to mature in their careers (often times the employer covers the tuition as well).
>>
>>1023392
Well that's because you're a vet. Good for you and thanks for your service but I wasn't lucky enough to have joined the service. I have a disability. Which is why I only get close to $900 from my mother's work record from Social Security.

Trust me, I feel like a lazy piece of shit ever since I quit my job back in Jan 2014. I mean I only made $8.50 an hour and worked 6 days per week but I felt like I was working towards something. I didn't get along with one of my assistant managers and I noped the fuck out of that grocery store.


>>1023399
My uncle went to a CC back in the day and got some bullshit for his HVAC thing. But he makes $25/hr cash working for some guy.

I mean if I had to go to college while in a trade, I would, but I doubt it.
>>
Bump cause why not?
>>
>>1022177

>. That's not to mention the ability to move up as well. With a degree you get tons of opportunities, without you'll more or less be stuck in one spot eventually.

This is true, but what if somebody doesn't want to have a "career" for life anyway, and just wants to start entrepreneurship as soon as possible? Then wouldn't it make much more sense to just "make money fast" for a few years, then use that capital to fund one's own business?
>>
>>1024327
>This is true, but what if somebody doesn't want to have a "career" for life anyway, and just wants to start entrepreneurship as soon as possible? Then wouldn't it make much more sense to just "make money fast" for a few years, then use that capital to fund one's own business?

I guess. But you're not going to make all that much with just a few years of experience.

Unless you do something really good like work in Alberta Oil Sands during the very peak or something where you literally make like $2500 a week with no education or skills.
>>
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>>1022451
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>>1022177
Nigger what are you smoking. 23 years old, only high school diploma but I know a trade. Making a little over 50k right now. I don't regret once not going to college to get into debt just for a piece of paper.
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