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>>668550454 Bernie Sanders is unquestionably the best candidate.
But I'd still vote Hillary Clinton if I were in a swing state, simply because a vote NOT for Clinton is a vote FOR the republicans.
And for those who suggest Clinton = republicans; there are MAJOR differences between them. For instance, Hillary isn't saying we carpet bomb the Middle East, or that climate change isn't real. or that we should scrap the nuclear deal with Iran. You know, important stuff...
>bernie Good ideas, but America isnt ready and he is lying. There is no way his plans can work with the tax plan he wants to implement. Also his voter base is all the worse parts of the internet, so gross. >trump No clue what he is doing. Tax cuts across the board, strict immigration policy, walking meme. May vote for him for the lulz, hell it would be nice to have a non politician in the white house. It has been awhile. Sure it is pretty much saying fuck it and giving the highest office in the land to a venture capitalist, but fuck it. >hillary Groomed for the job. Liar, panderer, uses the constitution for tp. Sadly she is prob going to be president.
>>668551629 He literally is promising people free shit. This is lunacy. Before you even get into how this shit can be paid for, you must ask why it's theirs to take to begin with. Whey is it—why can you steel from one group to give to another?
Also his immigration policy is so bad, if implemented there wouldn't even be a country.
>>668551695 You know what I mean. Take North Korea for instance. Some of the same people who negotiated our "deals" for non-proliferation with NK worked for the Iran one.
Congrats, the Middle East will soon be in an arms race.
>People think trump is rich and would be able to pay for his own projects, but he's claimed bankruptcy several times already. No use having a dumbass for president if he can't do shit. >Hillary isn't going to do a damn thing that she's claiming she's going to do. She's going to fuck people over and do it with a shiteating grin. >Bernie will never get to do shit because congress won't let him.
Between the liar, the dumbass, and the jew... I'd rather not vote.
>>668550454 Hillary is the only experienced one of the bunch, so the choice is clear.
As far as the email scandal, just look back at the Benghazi scandal, which turned out to not be in any way tied to her or Obama. Just a bunch of loose allegations from the GOP (as usual). This type of thing is "business as usual" for the republicans. Attacking democrats with falsehoods and lies. So based on all of this past behavior, one can only reason that the email thing is also bullshit.
>>668552303 Well being white is now an insult. You can go, "oh you are white arent you" and this implies that the poster is racist and out of touch with modern america. This tactic is used, in the same way that calling out anybody on their skin color or possible racism, to throw the poster on his heels while he has to defend his skin color or views. While the guy who was called a racist or it was implied that he was, the other guy has now diverted the conversation into one he can morally win, by calming that this other fellow is racist, therefore his opinion doesnt matter. Classic technique.
>>668552811 >North Korea has a viable nuclear program and does tests whenever the fuck it feels like, threatening South Korea and Japan Why underestimate them, faggot? It's not like it's a gamble of millions of lives.
>>668552544 I don't understand this conclusion that Benghazi was not Clinton's or Obama's fault.
There was a clear policy of downplaying violent extremism in the aftermath of the Arab Spring. Where violence occurred, it would be blamed on something other than terrorism.
In the middle of a crisis where a U.S. embassy and staff were under attack, the State Department, under Clinton's guidance refused to clear the deployment of security forces in a timely manner, because it would look bad for Obama after he had praised what was happening in Libya.
American died as a result.
Afterwards, there was an obvious cover-up.
And, as Clinton asked, "What does it matter anymore?" It matters because we live under a representative government that must hold elected officials accountable for their incompetence.
>>668553579 >moderate-right just like Obama's >moderate-right just like Obama's >moderate-right just like Obama's >moderate-right just like Obama's >moderate-right just like Obama's >moderate-right just like Obama's
>>668551585 I agree. This is America, people seem to think that Trump would actually be able to carry out any of his insane ideas and make something of a dictatorship. The president cant do shit if his ideas are too dumb to get through.
>>668553362 >>668553403 >North Korea claimed it was a hydrogen bomb. And they were condemned for like the fourth time. They will keep doing this shit forever. Even if they develop them they still have to be able to deliver the bomb to the desired target.
>>668554237 Ok let us break this down >implying North Korea is competent enough to have real nukes Your first point We countered and showed you, that yes they have nukes. Maybe just not the delivery capabilities. You then, go on to talk about how they have been reprimanded (which shows you knew they had nukes, and have had them for awhile) and then you moved the goal posts to claim "well they cant deliver them so blah" but the original claim remains that yes they have real nukes
>>668554998 >>pro-business private health insurance plan created by the Heritage foundation Well I wouldn't say "created" by that foundation, but rather multiple organizations had influence. Obamacare is a stepping stone towards universal care, which is the system Obama favors in his heart. It's also laden with liberal and progressive policy, which you are conveniently ignoring.
Is it more, or less liberal than what came before? Idiot.
>>massive military invasion of Afghanistan You mean *escalation* Warfare isn't right or left anyway; both ends of the political spectrum supports American aggression, only for different purposes. The most principled parts of the far right and far left are anti war.
>>drone strikes And?
>>NSA Not right or left. Principled conservatives oppose this (Pew research)
>>tax cuts and deficit spending Are you suggesting Obama on net reduced taxes? What a joke.
>Fox News I never watch this network. Crawl back to Salon/Democratic Underground/revleft/some anarcho-syndacalist bullshit website you love.
>>668555572 >ho ho ho what a dummy >if only he would have done nothing but invested so much more money >isnt he a dumbass for not doing that >thinking this diminishes trumps achievements >implying you would have done better than trump >still buying into the MSM rhetoric
>>668555914 So you are saying just because they have tested nukes, for years, means they havent built at least one? I understand this is all speculation, but it is very unwise to think if they have been testing for as long as they have, that they dont have at least one small payload nuke.
>>668556169 I agree, but people use this as an excuse to start up the war machine again. Fuck, there's even this website that shows how much an NK nuclear yield would destroy. It's about a fucking block.
>>668552811 FYI- North Korea HAS nukes and has had them for years. They got the technology to build atomic weapons from China. They've successfully tested them a few times for the world to see.
The current news cycle revolves them developing thermonuclear weapons, which are hundreds of times more devastating than atomic weapons. A few weeks ago they claimed to have successfully detonated a thermonuclear weapon but evidence indicates otherwise (that the test was either a failure or they just detonated an atomic weapon and claiming it was a thermonuclear weapon, either way they are full of shit).
>>668555630 All you have to do is look at Mrs. Clinton’s economics team. Robert Rubin, Larry Summers and Peter Orszag. Same guys who toyed with the idea of privatizing social security and wrote in a ton of market deregulation in the 90's. Clinton has also supported all those great free trade deals that sent a ton of americans plants and factories to bumfuck mexico where Jose gets payed 20 cents an hour
>>668552544 You're a fucking idiot, it has already been confirmed that she has thousands of emails containing top secret information in her home, she should be thrown in prison, not made president of the US. If it was a GS17 they'd be in prison already.
>>668557196 >projecting Im at work as well son. And i like how you have diverted from the original conversation. This means you started this conversation in the hopes of being witty, and haha caught him! about biases, but you clearly had no idea what you were talking about. Now get back to sorting the mail, i need my bank and money market account statements.
>>668557143 International free trade is now right wing? What about Buchanan, the Old Right, the tariff, the American System. America has a long and rich history of right wingers hating this shit. The past fifty years or so are anomalous but with Trump we're turning back the clock.
>>668556665 >They have nukes. They're testing possible nukes, but as far as having actual nuclear weapons, they're full of shit. You're right that the current news cycle is about thermonuclear/fusion weapons, but there's still disputes over whether they even tested this. You're also correct about China enabling them to build a nuclear reactor.
>>668557896 Why go outside if lightning might kill you? Cost benefit analysis you stupid cunt Secondly, nobody should give a fuck about muh t t t wo degrees when the entire institution of science is being changed into a political plaything ?
>>668558156 You say that as though its a viable solution.
First of all its not his to take. Second, this proposal isn't sufficient.
Why should we make college more affordable when the amount of degrees being issued are already making them worthless? Sure just increase the amount we're pooping out and even more college graduates can be janitors, great fucking plan.
If less people were attending college the price for pricey universities could go down lower. When you subsidize something you get more of it. And subsiding something with a high elastic demand is going to lead to prices going through the roof as they already have. Fuck man.
How does a tax on Wall Street 'speculation' solve anything anyway?
Also American standards of living are high if you adjust for immigrant population.
>>668550454 Jews are good with money. I know, I know, they're horrible people. Fine. Okay. I'd rather have a horrible good-with-money jew in that white house, than that lying vote/attention whore Hilary, or Donald "I'm just doing this for PR reasons" Trump.
>>668558652 Considering the American people bailed out Wall Street and the banks, I'd say it is ours to take. And considering a college degree today gets you what a high school degree used to, it would be a public good despite degree inflation. If anything the cost of certain schools may go down to remain competitive with competently operated public colleges
>>668559600 Congress very stupidly gave money to Wall Street and therefore they should spend even more money? How about know, and instead Congress demand immediate remittance of the money they gave them. More degrees is just going to make shit worth a middle school completion 50 years ago, just stop. Loosten up demand and stop telling people to get fucking degrees in a recession. Shore up this fucking mess rather than make it last forever. I don't want another fucking FDR that sprinkles fucking leftist fairy dust for 13 years as we sink deeper in the shit.
>>668559195 find me something proving they are lying then. Politifact provide analyses and thorough fact check of each declaration, it's pretty serious job and it's easy to verify, just go there and check for yourself
>>668558712 No, you're probably too easily influenced and convinced, which is why you don't "believe" in climate change in the first place. Because of this horrible trait, I could probably convince you climate change is happening, through logic and reason, but to achieve what? You'd be as easily persuaded back to ignorance because you lack the ability to look at the overwhelming amount of statistics.
>implying >implying >implying >implying
Yeah, I know. Sorry but you idiots are all the same. College degree know it all snobs. I don't care what you "believe". Do you have a university degree? Have you ever conducted or studied statistical research? I don't need the answers faggot. Answer them to yourself. Look at yourself and keep telling yourself that the information you were told is true.
>>668560139 Who says a piece of paper makes you more educated? You don't need a god damn degree to plunge toilets. There's a limit on how useful degrees are in the country and presently we're too saturated.
you lost the game I dont believe in things. the science is failing to stand in the face of analysis, failing in every major prediction, failing in being transparent, failing in reproducibility, failing in every measure except grant money taken
but because you "believe" in it boo hoo the polar bears we should fucking legislate the entire world economy around it?
why dont you just call it your climate god instead?
>>668560259 >Pretending this argument doesn't apply to themselves >Pretending other people are ignorant or less educated because they don't agree > Pretending formal education has literally anything to do with science
I like the world you live in. Must make you feel good about your "beliefs"
>>668560488 The science hasn't failed in transparency you can go learn about how heat from the sun hits earth and can't escape back up through the lower atmosphere as easily because of greenhouse gasses. It's very, very simple science really.
You're right about the predictions. Especially in the 70's predictions were made which did not come true.
>>668560891 Typical lazy skepticism, just because you can't directly verify every information from the link doesn't mean they are wrong or treat the economists as sacrosaint without check them, also, just because the figures of the BL are wrong doesn't mean you can imagine every figure you want.
>>668560959 Thanks for the cliff notes on a simple mechanism. That definitely encapsulates everything we should ever have to think about, ever. Why, such a simple system wouldn't have any other factors or variables. You're my favorite little scientist!
If you think it hasn't failed in transparency, you go get Michael Mann's data, or the code for the top three climate models and report back to me.
And when you can't, you'll just content yourself that the high priests of your order have secret methods of extracting information, and that's ok with you.
>>668561110 I said degrees, not education. By all means improve high school by bringing it down to a local level but there's not inherit value of a degree.
If you drafted every American to earning a degree and pursing intellectual endeavors, there would still be the same proportion need of people to plunge toilets, maintain traffic lights, change the light bulbs at the university, etc.
>>668561040 you republitards need big letters to read. That is true, not every kid is a special snowflake and some will be needed to unclog toilets. George W. Bush is a prime example of someone destined to unclog toilets, but thanks to his family's money and influence he ended up in the white house, and look how well he did there.
You never know some poor guy who is currently unclogging toilets could have found a cure for the ass cancer that your mom will die of if he had had a chance to go to college.
>>668561355 No of course you can't. Rating him as "pants on fire" is absurd. The claim is at least about "grain of truth." I'd rather him make an outlandish claim in order to have people cough up and admit the actual numbers. If he were president he would be able to direct his economists to find the actual number.
A college degree is a point of differentiation. You hire a bachelor instead of a person with a high school degree, not because the person with the bachelor has learned more, but because they've proven themselves more motivated, a harder worker, ambitious.
When college degrees become high school v2.0, people will just be picked based on the presumed quality of their school.. A lot like the system we have now, but across the board.
The purpose of an education for most people is to get a job, get money, survive. If everyone has the same education.. No one is "educated"
>>668560488 ffs, look at iceland, antartica or glaciers worldwide. The planet is losing huge amounts of land ice. More than ever in recent history. Sea temperatures are rising. The cause isn't the issue here. I don't give a fuck whether "we" did it, or whether it's occuring naturally. What's FACT is that climate change has existed since long before humans existed. That's why climate models are based on 30 year periods (where I'm from atleast). Climates change. It's natural. Although, rising temperatures during climate change tend to have exponential growth risks, which we wouldn't be all too happy with.
Look at the history and geography of our planet. I don't give a fuck if a few animal species go extinct, fuck 'em. Animals have gone extinct all through history. I'd personally like to think creatively about how we can sustain a stable society the way we know it. Instead of denying the obvious. Our society wouldn't do all to well when water prices rise to unbearable levels.
>>668561696 Scientists need to back up their opinions with research and data that survive the peer-review process. A Skeptical Science peer-reviewed survey of all (over 12,000) peer-reviewed abstracts on the subject 'global climate change' and 'global warming' published between 1991 and 2011 (Cook et al. 2013) found that over 97% of the papers taking a position on the subject agreed with the consensus position that humans are causing global warming. In a second phase of the project, the scientist authors were emailed and rated over 2,000 of their own papers. Once again, over 97% of the papers taking a position on the cause of global warming agreed that humans are causing it.
Ok, im looking at antartica. It's accruing ice at a phenomenal rate. What's the point?
Glaciers.. the clue is in the name. They dont call them ice, they call them glaciers.. because they melt, move, expand and shrink. always have
Iceland, you mean .. greenland? The place that was once at least partially habitable within the timeframe of civilized humanity? And.. probably will be again?
exponential growth risks? >muh tipping point >just had to sneak that panic in there
denying the obvious >that climate change with terrifying world ending consequences isn't happening >that "climate change" is the new scare, and people will just deal with the weather as it comes as best they can
>>668560802 >>668560797 Regardless of the 10/10 arguments you provide for my stupidity, I don't see any valid arguments for your stance on the matter either.
Convince me that climate change isn't real. I have never seen anyone with your "opinion" who was able to provide evidence supported by statistics. I'm open to being proven wrong. Just don't send me any www.[fill-in-topic-here]truth.org kind of sites please.
>>668562757 >>668562812 I'm sure Clinton pushing for urban housing had NOTHING to do with the subprime mortgage crises, right guys? Forcing firms to give housing to minorities who don't qualify for them and can't afford the fucking bills was totally unrelated to those subprime mortgages being shifted around elsewhere in the financial sphere. Nope, Clinton forcing these toxic mortgages is just a Republican lie!!!!
Believe? I think I covered that already. I don't believe in anything. Evolution as a theory fits the data available. Other solutions don't. Works for me, but I dont base any major life decisions about it
Global warming doesn't fit data. Data is manufactured for it. Genes exists, temperature is measured, adjusted, proxied.
>Very substantial evidence sounds like something you learned through perusal of allllllll the most technical journals
>>668563243 I applaud your openness. On the other hand, the fact you haven't availed yourself of any of this data should demonstrate to you that your "belief" is founded on a one sided supply of information, and it is your own responsibility to correct that. Honestly.
>>668563164 I can't because this is /b/. Not a space for intellectual thought and discussion. We call each other faggots and move on with our day. Thats how this works. However, if you have any sources that formed your opinion, I'd honestly like to see them. I can never manage to find "climate change hoax" sites that can be taken seriously. They always magically forget sources, or they source just as horribly as feminist propaganda sites do.
>>668563702 >sorting mail >he must mean post office Sorry m8 i thought you knew that companies have mail rooms where they put the mongs to get disability credits from the government. It is ok son, surely you will understand that you fucked up originally and will stop responding to your superior in this tone.
>>668563725 Ok, this will be my comment, but it is still about critical thinking.
Greenhouse gasses as you call them are purported to come from the burning of fossil fuels, big oil is the boogeyman here right?
All that fossil fuel used to be various greenhouse gasses in the air, and was consumed by biomats and algaes and ferns etc which in turn decayed into fossil fuel
The implication is obvious, all the fossil fuel that is now in the ground, all the plastics and everything else we've made of it, used to be in the air. And life still got started and used it up.
Glacial melting affects albedo. Concentrations of gasses affect albedo. Trees affect cloud formation which affects albedo. Volcanos affect albedo. Trends in roofing color affect albedo.
This is not a simple system. It's one that deserves careful study and real science. That's not what it's getting, it's getting a bunch of hippy dippy people who are starting to think science is what they want to make of it.
Global warming wont ruin our future, but the church of activist science sure as fuck will.
>>668563186 Agreed. Sanders is still in the race, but I don't think for very much longer. Iowa and NH never represent the dem base well. Sanders was predicted to win NH because NH is just that predictable. 40% of NH voters are registered as Independents and they predictably vote anti-establishment. Which is why Sanders and Trump fared well. The rest of the states never poll this way, except maybe Vermont and Maine. If you look at the registered democrat vote in NH it was about 50/50. The thing about Iowa and NH not representing the base well is because there's almost no minority vote there, it's all white. Once the voting starts in states with high minority populations Sanders is going to have to do some paddling to do or he's going to sink quickly.
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