If communism was done the intended way the theory presents itself, would you support it?
>implying humans are not fallible
>mfw communism has a death toll of 120million+
What does that even mean? Marx wrote his work about a political and economic systems that don't really exist anymore. Is their some application of Marx that could work? Maybe, but I don't know what it is
No. If i do more work than someone else i expect to be fucking compensated more than them. I'm not going to work hard just to share my profit with a bunch of freeloading assholes
Of course because I will be living in fucking utopia. Sadly, reality is harder.
No. I'd just be a lazy ass at a minimal skill job. There'd be no reason for me to get my STEM degree because we'd all earn the same amount of money. Our society wouldn't progress and we'd all end up as essentially peasants because we can't make nice things. Everyone would have enough to live but that's about it.
Competition is what drives us forward. I want a better quality of life than most people out of a sense of accomplishment. Granted it may come at another person's expense.
im no marx expert, but wasn't his hole argument undefined?
like wouldnt he say the obvious, "the power should be in the hands of the workers" but then not define what that system actually looks like.
We would spiral into a state of stagnation. All of these benefits would make us not aspire to anything and useless
Sure, but it will never work because (apparently) humans are greedy, jealous, deceitful, etc. Someone always fucks the system to get more. Well... it could work in a little commune or an island or whatever, but on a national level its a joke.
Lenin never cared for the people. If he did, he wouldn't have executed people him and Stalin thought would cause their party to topple, paranoia gets the best of progress judgements. The red terror is what it was.
face it dude, lenin straight up bastardized marxism so he could get back at the tsarist government for destroying his family. It's known fact that the Kaisers govt of WWI intentionally helped Lenin get back into Russia and funded him at least in the beginning.
It took centuries for people to evolve past slave-based societies and towards feudalism, with numerous setbacks along the way. It took centuries for feudalism to eventually give way to Capitalism, again with plenty of set-backs and trial and error along the way.
So when Socialism comes it probably won't be called "socialism", it will probably bear little actual resemblance to early Marxists vision as a place where the government owns everything and everyone is a state employee. Future "socialists" may view classical Marxism as much of a failed early experiment as we would. It may only have the loosest of connections with the theory, being a place where the division of labor is more egalitarian, where the distinction between worker and manager have become as irrelevant as the distinction between a Yeoman and a landed Gentry.
So I already support it, in the sense that centuries in the future people will live in societies that are, on a whole, dramatically more egalitarian and free than ours, just as ours is to the fiefdoms of medieval Europe and slave empires of antiquity.
Agreed I would definitely be one of those people getting ahead. I like the sense of accomplishment and doing better than everyone else. I want my reward too.
Socialism and communism would make people useless and unproductive seeing as how no matter how much value you add to the economy you get paid the same. People would do the minimum and thus the benefits system would collapse because you couldn't sustain it with the low productivity.
I'm sure the system can work if ppl put aside their personal gain. Let's say you want to be a doctor. I send you to university, but you get the same as a farmer (free medical, etc). Do you think you deserve more or less? The difference is the farmer, doesn't want an education. But he wants the same benefits. So instead of freeloading, he is subject to labor. Is it fair?
It may end up more egalitarian in that kids will have the same opportunities and grow up in the same system. However socialism will never work because human nature will always want competition to be better than everyone else. That's how technology advances and that's why people go to college.
>yfw you train for four years in the castle just to slaughter peasants
Communism was invented and created by fucking Jews. The entire Bolshevik revolution was orchestrated by Jews. Stalin, Lennin and Trotski were all Jews. Think its a lie?
How many Soviets died in WW2? 40+ million. Mostly by their own people. So in essence, the Jews murdered 40 million+ people in WW2 and then cry "holocaust".
Today they are doing the same shit.
>when youre just trying to till your field and your liege calls you into work
Have you ever met a soldier? They'll obsess over doing their duty and earning a small piece of colored ribbon which has no real value in society, it just declares that they did something of merit and should be recognized for it. The competition is fierce even though it's a centralized system and every one is paid according to the same pay grade. The most effective fighting forces are always the ones which adopt this top-down hierarchy because effective organization and logistics is what wins wars, while profit driven military systems inevitably become gigantic get rich quick schemes, as Classical Greeks and Renaissance Italians learned so painfully.
Fuck no. Communism *always* requires a war, and/or a scapegoat portion of their own population; and always practices pogrom upon them...
Communism is a death-cult, just like islam is. The differences between them are purely ideological - in practice they are almost indistinguishable; in their destruction of culture; their compulsory inflicting of misery; and in their death toll.
Communism is the idea that all PRODUCTIVE property should be owned and managed by the workers. Pretty much all Communists acknowledge that some labor is more valuable than other labor and should be rewarded accordingly.
You're a fucking moron. Lenin was anti-tsar. His brother and sister were both tortured and killed by the tsarist government. He had to run away to the fucking mountains. He was an extremist with little to no logic BUT he was good orator for a pissed off Russian populace. The germans wanted the russians out so they sealed his ass in a train car and snuck him across enemy lines.
Government = slavery. If you support any government, you are the ultimate cuck. You are literally choosing people to enslave you. You are giving people power to tell you what you can and cannot do. I don't understand how people would want this.
There's more to a war than just physical fighting especially in today's world. Look at Iran. We're essentially in a form of hybrid warfare in which economics is the primary tool in which we weaken them.
In a military a top-down approach is best, however this is economics which is a completely different system and comparing the two is useless at best. There's a very good reason why all of these communist countries are gilded and eventually fail. They essentially stagnate because they can't manage themselves. Let the people decide their future.
oh so it's not real communism then. it's a version that was dragged towards reality where people are greedy. I'll take my competition. I know I'll do better than most people anyways. At others' expense of course
You do realize, asshole, that the Inquisition was a response to the islamic invasion and contamination of the culture, right?
It was the cleanup job which had to be done after the muzzies were driven out of Spain and southern France.
And yeah, it got a bit outta hand in places, and at times - but it was the royal families that funded and promoted it, even moreso than the church.
Or doesn't history actually matter to you?
lmao leninist concepts being used to criticize marx...
anyways, it's true that there is a type of social purging, but it's supposed to be one that eradicates crime and enforces morality (eventually leading to the lack of need for a police force but the problem is this is some year 4000 shit and not what we need to focus on now, trying that now would just allow evil people to exploit the system like we've seen in the past)
You make a compelling point and its for that reason why I doubt that socialism will be the case of "let's make everyone a state employee". Ultimately change is forced upon us and if there's one thing top-down hierarchies hate, it's change. But I was making the point that the lust for wealth isn't the only thing which drives people to compete, research, and create.
And communist societies fail because any society ruled by ideological extremists inevitably slides towards totalitarianism because talking the talk becomes more important than walking the walk. The never truly succeeded in actually creating classless societies, they created what Frederich Engels called "State Capitalisms", Capitalism's final form where the capital owning class and the government have become one in the same. Class distinctions in Communist societies still existed in a practical sense, they merely pretended like that wasn't the case.
I just don't think a government can accurately determine what's best for it's people and lead them towards a good direction. I think it's competition and allowing the weak ideas to fail naturally that will determine what's the next step for society. Letting the individual determine how he wants to carve out his living is what's best. In communism you become enslaved to the system and lose your individuality. Individuality is becoming increasingly important in today's world with the staggering number of opportunities and possibilities one's life can take.
Christianity has killed hundreds of millions of people over the course of two millennia. Communism has killed hundreds of millions of people over the course of a century.
Nice try m8.