you know i have never seen a proper argument made by an atheist as to why god is not real that doesn't involve emotional bullshit
please try and give me a logical reason why god doesn't exist
protip: you can't
my autistic senses are telling me you're cancer
It is impossible to disprove a made up entity because there are no signs that the made up entity existed, yet because of how the made up entity acts, (Never leaving a trace of it's existence) the entity can never be disproved since there is no way to observe something that leaves absolutely zero trace of it's existence.
What the fuck is wrong with every single one of you? Arguing the existence or lack of existence of a God is for 15 year old pseudo intellectuals.
Once you grow the fuck up you realize what other people do or don't believe is none of your fucking business. These threads are so goddamn embarrassing.
on a somewhat related note:
the entire cosmos exploded out of a particle smaller than a god damn atom and all the elements that exist in the universe are cooked from stars exploding and atoms fusing together and shit.
>mfw too human to comprehend
>no one raising questions about this
I mean seriously, niggers don't have to just be black. Niggers are people who are unwanted, someone who is economically, politically, or socially pushed aside.
If there was a god why would he allow niggers like you, or me to exist? If there was a god 4chan the place full of niggers would probably never of been made and even if it had, it's be a much different place.
universe is unlimited so is stars and the suns given the enuff time there will be a planet just like ours with peoplejust like us but that it includes a dragon and im batman
Right, because the problem from evil, the argument from non-belief, the presumption of atheism, the problem of non-god objects, are all emotionally driven.
I believe that there are higher powers out there but I dont believe in any organized religion. Shit seems to complicated to just be some sort of accident.
Also I believe that our consciousness carries on after death.
also interesting how a lot of those religions of beliefs have some things in common like the belief of certain points of energy in the body and beings that live in a different astralplane
God doesn't exist because nothing exists, since an atom behaves like a particle and a wave at the same time until a conscious observer comes along and creates the fucking atom by simply looking at it.
Ergo, fuck you OP.
It's not really that interesting when you consider that one of the basic principles of starting a religion would be "it can't be provable"... Therefore: found it around something that sounds like it could be true but can't be proved.
yea but athiests dont know shit, they are just the opposite of the religious jerk and opposites are the same thing in different grades both are just people that is very radical in their beliefs or lack of
the correct way to go is always being open to learn new things , a 100 years ago a microwave would be an idea so stupid
You're right, I can't.
But what I can provide you with is uncertainty. The same kind of uncertainty that one who does not believe in a God feels when the thought of dying crosses his mind and the worry of pearly gates and judgment follow. And that feeling is uncertainty itself.
I just simply dont know if there is a god or not. This is the most rational way of thinking.
well acupunture was an stupid and religious idea some years ago , no it is approved by medicine
the only difference is that chinese said it was energy and magic and medicine discovered it was a supression and stimuli of nerves
but how the ancient idiots got to that conclusion without the proper equipment?
supernatural things are only thngs yet to be discovered
Fucking William Lane Craig himself said in talking about the Heat Death of the Universe how that's too awful thing for him to accept plain. Mathematician John Lennox babbles about his need for "justice" amidst the chaos.
We don't have anything emotional at stake. Or personal. You do, you projecting cunts.
you know i have never seen a proper argument made by a theist as to why god is real that doesn't involve emotional bullshit
please try and give me a logical reason why god does exist
protip: you can't
there is a reason religion is called "faith". we are unable to prove it exists and those who can tell us what happens after we die are dead.
best we could hope for is that whatever line of faith we choose is the correct one.
I can't prove he's not real. I can't prove he is real. But generally I don't believe in something's existence until I've seen some evidence, so all positions are naturally assumed to be false until proven otherwise. And the only things I see in favour of God is a book full of ancient writings and a shitload of people claiming to believe the same thing. Problem is that there are quite a few religions that have that exact same evidence going for them.
On a side note even if God magically convinced me he was real I probably wouldn't care. I'm just gonna go about my life trying to make enough money to retire early and live happy.
People's beliefs are to their own.
Think of religious beliefs as a spiritual version of an opinion... It doesn't matter what someone else believes does it?
It's not about God existing or not, it's about faith.
"Atheists" actually believe that CHRISTIANS believe that Jesus literally fed 10,000 people with like 2 fish and a loaf of bread (idk the logistics mayn), and that the whole world got flooded and shit and that nigga Noah got all those anim-
Of course you get the *minority* that believe all that crazy shite BUT, (I'm speaking from an unbiased angle) all Holy Books are nought but guidelines to better yourself, and change your outlook on life and to possibly understand the meaning of life. That's done with stories with a MORAL at the end. Just like at school :)
I don't think you know what that means
>In thermodynamics, entropy (usual symbol S) is a measure of the number of specific ways in which a thermodynamic system may be arranged, commonly understood as a measure of disorder. According to the second law of thermodynamics the entropy of an isolated system never decreases; such a system will spontaneously evolve toward thermodynamic equilibrium, the configuration with maximum entropy. Systems that are not isolated may decrease in entropy, provided they increase the entropy of their environment by at least that same amount. Since entropy is a state function, the change in the entropy of a system is the same for any process that goes from a given initial state to a given final state, whether the process is reversible or irreversible. However, irreversible processes increase the combined entropy of the system and its environment.
This is referred to as the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. The deal is, if you try to observe something, you end up affecting it such that you can never know with absolute certainty both the position and velocity of a particle.
The simplest way to think of this is to ask yourself HOW you observe something. When you are "looking" at atoms, what are you really doing? Well, you are bombarding them with photons and seeing how the photons react. Guess what? When you throw photons at particles, you affect them! It is not surprising that atoms get moved around or behave differently when they are being observed. If we could observe something without interacting with it somehow, then this would not happen, we could see the truth of how particles really move. But that is just not possible.
So, these atoms were affected by how you were observing them. If these scientists were to perform the experiment exactly the same way both times except kept their eyes closed the entire time, the atoms would behave the exact same way. It is not whether the atoms are being watched or not, it is whether or not it is possible to see them. If it is possible, they will behave differently.
In an over generalized sense, that is what happens. Quantum mechanics is all about this kind of crazy behavior of tiny particles. You might consider looking into it.
'God' in the way lost religions portray it, is unfalsifiable. Meaning it can't be proved or disproved, also why is it whenever you ask a Christian why god exists they can't give you an answer without emotional bullshit?
Because you can discuss unfalsifiables within the realms of science/facts.
>God thinks I'm special
Be mad even your most academic champions play the emotion card, down to "knowing jesus" in your heart. It is you who expect the whole world to wallow in sorrow if God is removed as an idea from their lives. I don't let my emotions claim any significance towards the workings of the universe. What is religion but that?
Fairy tales? You believe that they're fairy tales because you're too fucking stupid to think otherwise. Christians don't genuinely believe that these "fairy tales" are 100% fact! they refer to them as guidelines to bettering yourself, like morals. They're moral stories.
Why do atheists get upset and angry with the world because no one likes them or want to hang out with them or be their girlfriends? That has nothing to do with the universe, the meaning of life or God. Don't blame or hate God when you're in control of your own actions. God doesn't care that you're a whiny emo neck beard, so go do something about it and stop letting your superiority complex get in the way of your relationships with others.
the evidence is simple. god made man in his image riiigggghhhttt? man originated in africa riiiiigggghhhttt? god is there for a black african, you with me so far?
so why is it that god hasn't died of ebola or aids yet? and why haven't all the white women been raped yet?
So am I the only one here that thinks all religions are mostly bullshit but there is life after death and some more advanced entity is responsible for our existence?
>Christians don't genuinely believe that these "fairy tales" are 100% fact
Oh yes they fucking do, maybe to save face they'll downplay the significance of historical value, but how are they where they are without a literal fact of Resurrection?
for real if you are against religion because you live in a place where religion is harming the people and religion is actually fuckin things up its okay for me
but lets be real 99% of this jerk atheits online are nothing but fedora whiny kids that wants to feel somehow superiortoothers by being an athiest or a vegan or whatever
stop crying idiots, people believe in other things and is fuckin normal
How can the temporary (such as things that are born then die) stem from anything other than the eternal/infinite?
Anything that comes into being (the temporal being, that we know as the universe or whatever) must be within the totality of the capacity of the eternal/what the eternal "is".
Imagine a tree, as the eternal, and it's fruit as the temporal. Fruit is understood to be a trait of the seed of this tree because if it wasn't, then how else would it produce fruit when planted?
Because life exists in our temporal reality of fruit, along with things like intelligence and all that, people find it rational to suggest that "alive" and "intelligent" and "personality" etc are traits within the totality of the eternal "tree/seed" that is the eternal "half" of reality that the temporal "half" is "subservient" to in what could be called a "hierarchy of reality", with the traits of lower things being ultimately present within the things above it. With eternity/infinity obviously being incomprehensibly above the temporal world to which our own capacity to understand is limited to.
I don't find this to be an irrational way of thinking, and find value in respecting the general fact that people believe in God. Although I obviously can't stand fanatics and the like.
I believe that we were created and are being watched by something/someone (god). I just dont think that praying or following any of his so called rules will do much.
I believe that organized religion was created to organize people and its still being followed because people can relate to and share those views.
Look at Islam
>women kept in their place
>polygamy is cool
>fags and gays are lame
Im not muslim but I do believe that giving women lots of freedom is a bad thing.
Huh... Bunch of Hitchens wannabes that can't answer the question.
If God is a universal force or even consciousness, then nothing were study now would disprove or prove anything. It's foolish to plan things and fight for the belief in a physical being who created everything. However, given the fact that humans seem to naturally believe in deities universally, to the point of parallel beliefs across the globe with people who have had no interaction, the burden of proof is 100% on atheists. You are the ones suggesting something new, not the religious. Hitchens was a smart man. That doesn't mean he was right, or that his methods weren't dickish. Only means he was smart. Stop trying to be him. Jeez, you're all like feminists chasing ayn rand...
mplanckGerman theoretical physicist who originated quantum theory,which won him the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1918.
“…I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.” – The Observer, London, January 25, 1931
Your modern Bible has been translated too many times, that it's a perversion of the original text. Most 'religious' people know less about religion than your average decently intelligent atheist/agnostic. Keep praying to your sky wizard, as long as you don't push your beliefs on me. Not even atheist. Agnostic. Your religion doesn't make much sense to me honestly. Raised catholic.
If he does exist then he has the pathology of a 40 year old basement dweller living with his parents masturbating to child snuff. Otherwise why else does he stand by and let all the horrible shit happen?
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”
Where is Science Going? 1932
“As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.” – Das Wesen der Materie [The Nature of Matter], speech at Florence, Italy (1944)
Are you all stupid?
The bible is a legal historical document, everything that it says happened is being revealed more and more.
E.g. They found the remains of 200,000 soldiers in the Middle East; archaeologists say the soldiers suddenly all died - the bible says an angel killed them all.
The testaments of the saints alone is viable proof anyway, they were all intelligent people with well respected jobs who recounted what happened.
i am living in a pot of boiling water.
i can tell you that the heat of my universe is stable at 100f.
air bubbles always raise up to the surface. the universe is surrounded on all sides save one, by iron.
it appears that the water in my universe turns to steam and leaves the known universe through the side of the universe that is not surrounded by iron.
scientists cannot agree where the water came from.
scientists have theorized that the universe was not always 100 degrees. that it was in a cold state and gradually became hotter. they theorize that it will continue to heat until all the water will evaporate and life as we know it will cease to exist.
creationist believe that there is a grand architect that places our water in the iron and is responsible for the water heating up.
they have NO proof of this. no one has EVER seen such a god nor is there any evidence that he exists
Erwin_SchrödingerAustrian physicist, one of the founders of quantum theory, and winner of the 1933 Nobel Prize for Physics.
“Nirvana is a state of pure blissful knowledge… It has nothing to do with the individual. The ego or its separation is an illusion. Indeed in a certain sense two “I”‘s are identical namely when one disregards all special contents — their Karma. The goal of man is to preserve his Karma and to develop it further… when man dies his Karma lives and creates for itself another carrier.” – Writings of July 1918, quoted in A Life of Erwin Schrödinger (1994) by Walter Moore
Schrodinger (1961) claims that the Vedic slogan “All in One and One in All” was an idea that led him to the creation of quantum mechanics.
“Although I think that life may be the result of an accident, I do not think that of consciousness. Consciousness cannot be accounted for in physical terms. For consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be accounted for in terms of anything else.” – As quoted in The Observer (11 January 1931); also in Psychic Research (1931)
“Consciousness is never experienced in the plural, only in the singular. Not only has none of us ever experienced more than one consciousness, but there is also no trace of circumstantial evidence of this ever happening anywhere in the world. If I say that there cannot be more than one consciousness in the same mind, this seems a blunt tautology — we are quite unable to imagine the contrary…” – The Oneness of Mind, as translated in Quantum Questions: Mystical Writings of the World’s Great Physicists (1984) edited by Ken Wilbe
i've heard they found some bones and they suspect its peter pans, holy fuck, if there was an peter pan, there must be neverland, and if thats so, we can make up food with our thoughts
Duerr1German physicist, executive Director of the Max Planck Institute for Physics and Astrophysics in Munich for several times.
You are 78 years old. Do you believe in for afterlife? Is there existence after death? Professor Dürr: “That is an interesting question. What we consider the here and now, this world, it is actually just the material level that is comprehensible. The beyond is an infinite reality that is much bigger. Which this world is rooted in. In this way, our lifes in this plane of existence are encompassed, surrounded, by the afterworld already. When planning I imagine that I have written my existence in this world on a sort of hard drive on the tangible (the brain), that I have also transferred this data onto the spiritual quantum field, then I could say that when I die, I do not lose this information, this conscioiusness. The body dies but the spiritual quantum field continues. In this way, I am immortal. “ – (P.M. Magazin 05/2007)
have you watched it?
im greek btw, i know everything about christian religion, some content have historical proof, but there is no proof about god existing, just of those who taught the religion.
dysonEnglish-born American theoretical physicist and mathematician, famous for his work in quantum electrodynamics, solid-state physics, astronomy and nuclear engineering.
“[Is mind] primary or an accidental consequence of something else? The prevailing view among biologists seems to be that the mind arose accidentally out of molecules of DNA or something. I find that very unlikely. It seems more reasonable to think that mind was a primary part of nature from the beginning and we are simply manifestations of it at the present stage of history. It’s not so much that mind has a life of its own but that mind is inherent in the way the universe is built.” – Interview with Freeman Dyson in U.S.News and World Report, April 18, 1988, 72.
“As we look out into the universe and identify the many accidents of physics and astronomy that have worked to our benefit, it almost seems as if the universe must in some sense have known that we were coming.” - The Argument from Design, in: Disturbing the Universe, Harper and Row New York 1979, p. 250
Almost no one with a masters or above In biology is an atheist because they realise how complex everything is.
To begin, mutations are ALWAYS degenerative. So evolution is already disproven by that fact, not to mention that we have more DNA relation to a banana than a chimpanzee. Also the second law of thermodynamics prevents any order (the creation of everything) being a result of chaos ( the Big Bang)
Penrose_bigEnglish mathematical physicist and Professor of Mathematics at the Mathematical Institute, University of Oxford, famous for his work in mathematical physics, cosmology, general relativity, and his musings on the nature of consciousness.
“…the contemporary understanding of material is very different now from the way it used to be. If we consider what matter really is, we now understand it as much more of a mathematical thing…But I think that matter itself is now much more of a mental substance…” – Journal of Consciousness Studies 1:24
It’s interesting also to note that the only field of science that seems to spawn this type of reasoning are physicists, more specifically theoretical physicists. They all deal with physical phenomena at nanoscopic levels and probe into the fundamental make up of matter.
220px-David_BohmAmerican theoretical physicist who contributed innovative and unorthodox ideas to quantum theory, philosophy of mind, and neuropsychology. He is considered to be one of the most significant theoretical physicists of the 20th century.
“Deep down the consciousness of mankind is one. This is a virtual certainty because even in the vacuum matter is one; and if we don’t see this, it’s because we are blinding ourselves to it.” – Statement of 1986, as quoted in Towards a Theory of Transpersonal Decision-Making in Human-Systems (2007) by Joseph Riggio, p. 66
“Consciousness is much more of the implicate order than is matter . . . Yet at a deeper level [matter and consciousness] are actually inseparable and interwoven , just as in the computer game the player and the screen are united by participation.” – Statement of 1987, as quoted in Towards a Theory of Transpersonal Decision-Making in Human-Systems (2007) by Joseph Riggio, p. 66
“The notion that all these fragments are separately existent is evidently an illusion, and this illusion cannot do other than lead to endless conflict and confusion. Indeed, the attempt to live according to the notion that the fragments are really separate is, in essence, what has led to the growing series of extremely urgent crises that is confronting us today. Thus, as is now well known, this way of life has brought about pollution, destruction of the balance of nature, over-population, world-wide economic and political disorder and the creation of an overall environment that is neither physically nor mentally healthy for most of the people who live in it. Individually there has developed a widespread feeling of helplessness and despair, in the face of what seems to be an overwhelming mass of disparate social forces, going beyond the control and even the comprehension of the human beings who are caught up in it.” – Wholeness and the Implicate Order, 1980
ITT: "huurr durr this isn't b8 op is actually serious"
People who think gods will save their people from suffering have no idea about anything. Gods are not here to do all the work for us. If that were the case, we would all be happy slaves to them, living in peace and prosperity at their side, doing as we are told. Instead, we are conscious. We choose. We live. We die. And we grow. As a species were have grown so much, and become so much less violent than in the past. We have curbed our darkness and continued to grow. The only reason you recognize how wicked the world is, is because you have lived in a time where we can understand. In the past, you would not question our wickedness. You would not see it as wicked, it would be normal.
You seeing wickedness is proof how far we've come trying to rid ourselves of it. As a good of am entire species, I'd think this growth would be more important than interfering with our free choice, which would set us back. If a good came from the sky and saved everyone, we'd get lazy and stop growing.
Why must it have been "created", what if it always was?
I have no proof that god doesn't exist and judging by you being called on numerous times to produce proof of existence and not doing so, I am guessing you have none either. As such, until such time that you can provide said proof I will trust the more plausible explanation. God does not exist. I am willing to change my mind, but not based on you simply throwing around questions about the "creation".
>burden of proof is 100% on atheists
Explain the difference between being indoctrinated towards the belief of Santa Claus and then God.
Yeah, Santa isn't irrefutable until you're in the company of dead people.
And Ayn Rand said she wouldn't prefer a Female president. That it's not good for a woman to lead man. So you and the feminists both take you twisted realities elsewhere.
>more DNA relation to a banana than a chimpanzee.
Wow, how could that possibly be true? Oh right, it isn't.
>Also the second law of thermodynamics prevents any order (the creation of everything) being a result of chaos ( the Big Bang)
That's not what the second law means at all.
Your whole post is stupid. You're stupid and you should feel bad.
I'snt emotional bullshit what believers always bring up when asked for proof of god?
"I can feel him in my heart"; "Look at the beauty of nature/ the smile of a child"; "My life changed after accepting him"...
The main argument of atheists, on the other hand, is the pretty factual "There simply is no proof for such an entity"...
I do believe there is somethign greater than us , i do believe they are happening in front of our face but we cannot comprehend them
i do believe that they being superior being have completely different set of goals plans or whatever
i believe people think they exist to fix our problems or help us have a gf or money it is like when you are a child and you think that what happens to you its the mst important thing in the planet when in fact your parents have different plans for you
and i believe i dont know shit, so i will remain open to different theories and if everything goes well maybe one day ill undertand this, but something i know for a fact is mind do alter reality
>Almost no one with a masters or above In biology is an atheist because they realise how complex everything is.
Oh now that is completely bullshit. Putting aside the studies that put the number of theists in biology at less than 10%. Any biologist who, when looking at the complexity of life, just throws their hands up and says "Welp god must of done it" instead of investigating how it happened through naturalistic processes - you know, what their fucking job is - is completely useless.
I will athropomorphise as much as I like as I have the free will to do so. If YOU have a problem with that, it is YOUR problem. It just seems that you may be a little upset that it paints it in a different light once anthropomorphosed.
>As a species we have grown so much
you lost me right there
It's really not. You're looking at god from an atheist perspective. Out of all the arguments this is the worst (and secretly the most common one) by far.
Not a believer, however if you consider the fact that God as popular religion portrays him equals eternal life of the soul, life on Earth has little to no meaning. We could all be suffering 20 times more than we are just now; 70 - 80 years spent in suffering are meaningless in comparison with eternity. A bunch of good people and kids died for no reason? Who cares; death would literally be like moving to a new, cooler country, not this cruel thing which ends you forever.
There is also the freedom of choice thing
If you can't imagine something than it exists in some way or is at least possible, and things that are possible ether existed in the past or can exist in the future and since everything is linked and goes back all the way there had to have been a first creator which is God or whatever higher power you choose to call it
Wow, jumping at ayn rands opinions and missing every single point. Troll.
But ill play a bit...
The difference is Santa is a localized, relatively recent event while religions have always been. Parallels between them have always been. And the course of most religions was always a search for understanding of the universe and it's workings. Popular religion is aimed down for the masses. You're not supposed to worry about it much unless you feel the call to join the church, where religion is truly a study of unknown. At least, it used to be. Popular religions pretty much destroyed genuine religion. Long gone are the days of gnostic practitioners....
b-but how else will i feel superior to a large group of people anon? surely you're not implying that i should excel physically or intellectually in order to place myself above others?
What he's saying basically there's just as much evidence to argue the case for an evil god.
An all loving, omnipotent god who can have the blind, the dead rise, even flood the whole planet can't simply be bothered to miracle some people out of poverty or tyranny?
If some god exists there isn't any reason that it would have to be all loving. A god could be evil, or neutral. Or such notions just aren't applicable to it, much like fire isn't good or evil.
At best that argument only disproves any god that claims to be omni-benevolent. Which isn't many.
There's was a religion that believed god was actually a being of two aspects, brothers, one good and one evil. They exist in tandem because once cannot be without the other. Interesting thought at least.
>understanding of the universe and it's workings
God is a special fucking claim that needs outstanding evidence. You're keep babbling about how popular it's been, the idea of earth orbiting the sun had people executed over the same goddam pig headed mindset which keeps religion alive. 90% of the time, someone with a "call" to church has never tried magic mushrooms once in his life.
SOMETHING IS HAPPENING
Actually doesn't the fact that the "book" has several thousands of years prove it contains the wisdom of hundred of men ? I'm speaking about philosophy/moralty right now, not faith.
Why are you such an idiot? You jaundiced jumped up, vercordiously pusillanimous piffle. Your vileseome existence nauseates me beyond compare. It is politically correct when discussing your faults to use certain words to denote your humanness above your disability. But in your case, there is nothing human. You are just challenged, you are just different. Given a choice of stepping in something nasty on the sidewalk, or bidding you good morning, I would happily choose the former. Single-handedly, you have wrenched all meaning out of life. Congratulations. As I write this I try vainly to think of something, anything, which redeems in some small way your utterly pointless existence. The only thing that comes to mind is that you have taught me hate. Pure, unmitigated hate. I have had fantasies about attacking you with a machete, but I dare not. I once cut up a starfish, which was so neurologically simple that each piece grew into a clone of the original. Your coleopteron brain no doubt shares certain appalling similarities with such creatures. You, misguided as you are, might be asking yourself what you have done to deserve such a letter as this. Your misdeeds and villainous vampings can be described in just two words: you exist. And believe me, there is no reason on earth why you should. How do you justify to yourself waking up each morning and ruining yet another day? If everything in this world has some purpose, some grand plan behind its existence, then yours surely is to show everything else, whether it be a slops bucket in a fried chicken stand, or the gunk behind the fridge, how fortunate it is not to be you. I have tried, but clearly, I have failed. I must stand firm to the realisation that mere words cannot express my utmost and profound contempt and loathing for your person, your being and your existence. You are a blight against nature.
if god doesn't exist then explain these dubs
protip: you can't
My argument has always been this:
"If I am willing to accept that there is some form of deity/god, and i accept this as fact. Why should i believe in 'your' god over the other 1000s that have been worshiped"
I do not know if there is or isnt a god but i dont worship any particular god because of the statement above.
90% of the time, Christianity has not been the main religion.
And funny you should mention magic mushrooms; the world's oldest drug which was used expressly for religious purposes until recently. If you were trying sarcasm, ha.
And this thread is for you to convince me. You're facing humanity with this topic. The grand majority of all men ever born. And you think we should just believe you, while science just recently grazed knowledge gnostics have had for centuries. Never confuse the literal interpretation of a religion for its core beliefs. They're stories, parables to guide the average fool.
A full theological understanding of your religion doesn't interest me without evidence. I really really do not give a shit of what your hermits or gnostics have to say about something that I'm suppose to start with believing in.
fuck dubs and fuck you. im so sick of dubs that if i get dubs i will be so embarassed that i will have to end my life.
Here we go you repulsive faggots:
A belief in god depends completely on a personal philosophy and nothing else. Some people feel like there is a higher purpose to their existence. Some don't.
That's literally it. Both are fine. The only autistic people in this entire story are those that desperately need to feel superior to others.
Millions of religious people are smarter than you'll ever be and millions of atheists are so retarded you couldn't get on their level if you suffered 10 concussions a day. The same works in reverse.
Someones personal philosophy is a bad indicator of intelligence and this has been proven time and time again.
All you faggots responding to a stale pasta.
Many of the quotes are scientists seeing a pattern and postulating consciousness. You have to be careful to not falling into the appeal to authority fallacy on their speculation.
>hurr everyone is stupit but me
>hurr durr everyone belivis in magic
>why do ppl beliv in magic without eviduns
"But anon, I don't believe in magic, I just think that there's something out there and that the magic story is a cool story"
>YES YU FUKIN BELIV IN MAGIC
You're not just supposed to believe it till you learn it's truths. You're supposed to seek, and dream of a day when you can find something to believe. Pop religion is moronic, pointless, and an insult to its forefathers. You would never find gnostic teachings following the popular belief. You have to seek the wisdoms and not get caught up in the bullshit.
>a logical reason to why God doesn't exist?
The burden of proof is not on atheists and agnostics , but on Christians.Just like if somebody said that there is a levitating teapot in space , the burden of proof would be on those who say it exists.
You can't prove that Zeus doesn't exist or Odin...
And also , who would even worship such an asshole of a god like the Christian and the Islamic god?
Both in the bible and the quran , god says that you should stone a woman who isn't a virgin on her wedding day (that's from the Bible -Deuteronomy 22:20 ) Mat 5:28 says that if you even look at a woman and lust after her , you better gouge your eye out...
>purchase a nasa tier quantum computer
>let it calculate pi
>last digits will be 011001110110111101100100001000000110100101110011001000000110111001101111011101000010000001110010011001010110000101101100
>flawless victory for science
The biggest issue I have with these sort of discussions is that it's always atheism vs region. But you can't really compare atheism to region, they are just on completely different levels.
Theism is the belief in a god, atheism is not being a theist. Religion on the other hand, is a complex system of beliefs, practices, rituals, that typical also includes a moral code and is often (but not always) theistic or supernatural in nature.
You can be a theist and not be religious, you can be atheistic and religious.
The whole, theist/atheist thing for me is rather pointless. It's the dogma of the religion, all the stuff that tells you what to do, that's problematic.
>we should just believe you, while science just recently grazed knowledge gnostics have had for centuries
>we will infinitely take credit for all the hard work of science because we need our ideology to self reinforce
He's the basic logic:
Things don't exist because you presuppose they exist.
God is simply the beginning of the universe? Deism, which the ocean of math surrounding our understanding of the big bang doesn't need to function.
Is it a personal god? You know it, or do you just feel it? If you think you know it, where is the evidence beyond the fact the human brain can produce hallucinations?
....GOD WAS NOT INVENTED BY CHRISTIANS! CHRISTIANITY IS NOT AN OLD RELIGION! ANYTHING SAID ABOUT CHRISTIANITY IS POINTLESS. GET OVER IT, ITS NOT THE ONLY FUCKING RELIGION. ITS JUST THE CURRENT RELIGIOUS FAD.
Fucking a, this threads' definition of God is so narrow...
That's a good point but may I offer a dissenting view. You're right when you say 100 years ago the microwave was a silly idea. But consider this. 100 years ago you're a raging faggot.
And the truths on my end leave little I find about the whole religion which is appealing. If I wanted to approach exploring it from an anthropological view, with minor credence towards it being philosophy, it could be endlessly fascinating. But it's time I'd rather spend reading about other things.
because it's not the job of the atheist to prove God doesnt exists, it's the job of the theists to prove God exists.
Also, which God do you mean? there are so many religions and most have more then one God.
Hey I just saw you on the front page of 4chan and I know a lot of guys are going to pounce on me for this but you really shouldn't come to this site and if you do especially not /b/. I only read some of the comments and it looks like you are taking it well but sometimes people post really bad stuff on here and I don't think you are ready for it. They are probably going to try to make you show your breasts (write stuff like Tits or GTFO) or something like that or post violent pics. Some people on here even joke about incest. I don't want to come off as lecturing you but I just don't know why you came here. Did some white guy you are dating tell you to come to this site? He probably thought it would be funny to see your reaction when people start posting things that you can't handle. I hope you take my advice, I don't really know what else to say except you might want to try /int/ that is usually where people go to talk to people from other countries. I'm not just doing this because you are so pretty or something like that, I realize you are thousands of miles away and there isn't much of a chance that we could ever meet each other. I just want you to know that you deserve better than this site and whatever creepy white guy sent you here, you should be with someone that respects you and doesn't put you in an awkward position like this. I like 4chan and I like /b/ but I just don't want to see you get hurt here.
There's no logical explanation or anti thesis to something which has no relation to logic.
God is, even according to most of religions, something not-logical, despite the existence in the past of various philosphers who tried to prove the contrary, usually failing (the famous concept "Cogito ergo sum / I think therefore I am" and all that comes with it has been literaly destroyed by many other philosophers)
Anyway, the reason I'm personally atheist (believe there's no god) and not agnostic ("i can't say whether god exist or not because I haven't the tools to make a decision") comes from a simple idea Bertrand Russel had: " If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes"
Therefore anyone could create his "personal god" (or Jesus if you prefer the Depeche Mode) and no one could say it doesn't exist
So why should I believe in an astral teapot just because someone said it actually exist centuries ago?
With our current understanding of science we can explain everything that humanity previously attributed to god with science. Because of the scientific method we can never 100% confirm this, and there will always be new theories.
Also, according to the law of infinite probablility, there are endless amounts of universes where ANYthing can be real. Really, infinite universes where every small variation is accounted for. That means that in an infinite number of universes - god does not exist. If "god" is a god he would be omniscient and therefore be existing in all universes. Because he exists and does not exist in infinite universes, and we can explain with science what we previously thought was god, god does not exist in this universe.
>obvious scriptfag is obvious
You don't have to believe. You just have to allow others to make that choice, and always seek knowledge. There's no point in obeying a mans interpretation of an ancient book which was intended as a dumbed down storybook for the masses, not the true seekers. Just don't shut out your mind to new ideas.
>Not understanding that Atheism is a byproduct of religions claiming that there is a God in the first place
I never understand this line of reasoning. To assume a designer because of the complication. I see it the exact opposite. Why would an engineer with the power to create literally anything they want choose a complex system? If you're God, why even have anything on the atomic or quantum level in your design? It's needless, you can literally make anything work. If the design is solely for the humans and animals on this planet, why not design a universe that functions only on a level we can perceive? Anything else is needless fluff, and you can just use your magic to overcome any design issues. You don't need complexity.
Atheism isn't a claim though.
Atheism is just not being a theist.
There are two beliefs at work here, the belief that god exists and the belief that god does not exist. Both theism and atheism only deal with the fist belief (god exists), they do not deal in anyway with the second belief.
It's possible (and I'd most atheists fall into this category) to be an atheist and NOT believe that god does not exist. Allot of people say that this position is "agnostic" but agnosticism is something completely different all together.
People making alot of assumptions on what good really means here... The idea of an old man in the sky who branded rocked and shaped the earth with his giant physical hands... Is retarded. I thought that was implied but it seems many people are still arguing against that ideal. It's not an argument. That idea of God is enviously a children's story for people who would never understand otherwise.
Any atheist that says god doesn't exist is an idiot.
I'm an atheist and I simply don't believe in a deity nor do I think the bible or any religious scripture holds any significance.
I need no proof because that's not what being an atheist is about. The majority of loud atheists are just retarded.
However, I don't care if someone is religious or not. Do whatever makes you feel better, whether it's believing in god or not.
Atheists trying to convince christians and christians trying to convince atheists. Faggotry.
I'm not gonna say what side I'm on but I will say this. An idiot will never admit to his idiocy. Instead they'll make up their own definition of intelligence.
You are in fact wrong in this case though. If there were no such thing as religion or rather, Theism, Atheism wouldn't exist, it'd have no purpose or claim. Your fallacy is misplaced.
>I don't have to prove it. The burden of proof is on you. Just like how you don't have to proof that the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist.
Has anyone "seen" a flying Spaghetti monster?
Does Speghetti fly?
If i were to say there is a unicorn which goes around at night shitting in people's mouths, you would call me insane and tell ME to prove it exists. not the other way around. This is the same in religion, if someone says there is a god He/She should have proof he exists.
Yes, but we need something stating that to be the case. In the Bible, we have a figure in Genesis creating. And later we have a figure speaking to and directing humans. While I have to agree it would likely be more complicated than that, we can't even begin to make your argument. There is absolutely no logic, theological or otherwise, to base this claim on. It's just a way to let God continue to exist in a world where biblical facts are slowly being disproven. It's a stretch.
It doesn't matter which individual makes a claim. The claim of the existence of god is much older than any of us.
Religious people should stop trying to find proof for the existence of god. Believing is what faith is all about. Either have faith or don't. Be religious or don't. Just stop trying to preasure your belief onto other people, both atheists and theists
>Any atheist that says god doesn't exist is an idiot.
I'd argue this. I think it's possible to say that some gods, given how they are defined, do not exist. But these are gods that no one really cares about anyway.
For example, Thor rides around in a flying chariot throwing lightning bolts. Now we know what causes electrical storms, and it's not a flying norse guy. So as we can say that Thor, as defined as the thunder god, does not exist.
I would say similar things about the Abrahamic god as well, but given that there are so many variations of that one god it's impossible to nail any one down long enough to disprove it. At best you can say that YHWH taken from a 100% literal interpretation of the bible doesn't exist but no one believes in that god anyway.
A reason he does exist, you can't because he can exist, just that you have no proof.
Prov he doesn't exist, like i said, no proof that he exists neither does not exist. but i could say that about everything.
Prove that unicorns aren't real. you can't, because they can be real in another galaxy.
In other words. he doesn't exist completely. until you prove he is there. (which for the momeny is impossible)
It already has been by much more qualified people than I. I'm sorry your education system is this horrible. You can find plenty of scientific papers on the web, however. There's not 'one' proof for evolution. It's a multitude of proofs, since it's highly complex and affects more than just humanity
You come to a thread where the topic is to prove the existence of God and then you write that you don't have to prove anything while placing the burden of truth on OP. Why?
Your logical fallacy is burden of proof, which you don't have.
>Inb4 "b-but...muh beliefs"
>Inb4 a multitude of conjectures with God as a base
>Inb4 the bible being stated as literal textbook of history
This thread is moot, quit while you're behind.
That evolution occurs is fact. We can easily replicate it in short lived species. What is theory is abiogenisis, life from non life, but there are mountains of evidence to support that being the genius of life on earth, not the least of which is evolution.
The other side has... Well, a book.
Its proven you dont need to observe in real time.
The genes have a mutation rate ,its means that they tend to mutate in a regular spawn of time.
With the genetic diferences you can make a genealogy of the species.
With this genealogy you can know how much time passed between one species to another.
This correlates to the geological age of the fosils found.
This correlates to the time estimation based on radiological decay.
So you obtain the same information from 3 diferent sources, so evolution is a valid source of information , it can predict, it proven.
ITT: atheists trolling dumber atheists
Yes I have been one of them kek u fags
Atheism isn't a belief, it's a causality born out of Theism lacking undeniable proof of there being a God.