some serious stuff here.
How can it be, that basically everyone is aware that "something is wrong" with the system, yet no real resistance forms?
If you closely watch the economic statistics, you realize that the inequality around the world has reached levels as never before in history.
The US seems to be transforming into a plutocracy protected by their own security guards (aka police and lawyers), whereas ever more people depend on food stamps and aid.
23 years after capitalism won, does it now show it's real face?
The debt central banks have created since 2008 are on unprecedented and mind-boggling levels. Those in power of the system seem desperate to avoid the long overdue economic downturn. The lawmakers have gone all-in, yet no wide spread protests have formed so far in the western world or China.
When will things change, and can they be changed without some major war or violent civil unrests?
look at NYC and Ferguson. ppl are starting to notice and if things keep on like they are then riots are going to get more and more violent and shit will go down. Don't lose hope, we're still in this bitch.
Just where is our future, the things we've done and said!
Let's just push the button, we'd be better off dead!
'Cause I hate you!
And I berate you!
And I can't wait to get to you!
The sins of all our fathers, being dumped on us – the sons.
The only choice we're given is how many megatons?
And I eschew you!
And I say, screw you!
And I hope you're blue, too.
We're all bloody worthless,...
> The debt central banks have created since 2008 are on unprecedented and mind-boggling levels.
quantitative easing is not 'debt' per se but rather additional money in the economy. yes the treasuries technically owe the central banks money but it can be forgiven/paid.
no mass protests essentially because what govs and central banks have done post-2008 has been completely appropriate. no one WANTED to bail out reckless banks but policymakers HAD to (privatising profits, socialising risk yadda yadda).
That's how first sedentary communities were. If we go back to that model, then it will evolve into Slavism, Feodalism and finally Capitalism. We can't go back in history. We have to move forward.
I agree with you. Sadly, it seems apathy has trumped protest - be it in the streets, online, or in the ballot box.
I work in politics and that nature by which people justify their idleness is staggering.
>>My vote doesn't matter.
>>My vote won't change anything.
>>Politicians will do what they want.
>>I don't have any real power.
In my opinion, the root of this is endemic entitlement, exceptionalism, and narcissism. Entitlement rooted in a belief that their country should represent their ideas without them taking any action participatory in nature. Exceptionalism in the fact that they believe America or the West in morally, economically and all around superior to the rest of the world. And finally, narcissism derived from the emphasis many economists that promote self interest over collective success.
How do you change these factors? You don't do it by sitting at home on /b/, or bitching on Facebook, or just merely voting. You change the system by collective action and that takes organization. These days, you need money - period. So finding an organization already within existence that is relatively well off, working within it as a system, getting to the top, and then hi-jacking the cause to fit your personal agenda. Look at the NRA as a template for achieving successful coup.
tl;dr: You're probably just a faggot who doesn't care anyway, so keep watching your T.V. and eating your faggoting fast food and playing your meaningless video games while the world passes you by and you become another lemming who sits on his porch one day, bitching about how the world used to be and why you think it should change while your thumb is firmly up your ass. Or we can start getting shit done.
>If you closely watch the economic statistics, you realize that the inequality around the world has reached levels as never before in history.
I highly disagree with this. Inequality is nothing new to mankind, it's been part of reality back to when we lived in caves. We're just more aware of world conditions because of the internet.
On top of that, "inequality" is a modern issue - in past times, it was just called "life".
Humans will never be "equal". It's a pipe dream of people with too much time on their hands, who live in reality bubbles insulated from the harsh reality of existence.
>it will evolve into Slavism, Feodalism and finally Capitalism
Because 99% of World Pop is dumb as fuck.
Why the hell do you think shit like Jersy Shore, and (Insert country name here)'s next topmodel/pop star etc. are so fucking popular?
People are fed the stuff that keeps them most docile..
"Oh the 5th biggest bank in our country didnt pay tax? imma so... Oh wait, pop stars is on.."
Shitty tv, shitty (repentive unimaginative) music.
it takes huge balls for anyone wishing to wake the major population of from a doze like that..
Most people do shit when they can be seen in tv.
As Rosa Luxemburg said it.
"Freedom only for the supporters of the government, only for the members of a party – however numerous they may be – is no freedom at all. Freedom is always the freedom of the dissenter. Not because of the fanaticism of "justice", but rather because all that is instructive, wholesome, and purifying in political freedom depends on this essential characteristic, and its effects cease to work when "freedom" becomes a privilege"
And that "privilegde", has been misused badly (by non carring tweens and people in general)
Very few see further than the tip of their nose
Pure complacency, there need be no other reason. People are content to live their small lives in their small and familiar worlds, striving towards whatever trivial goals they believe to be the pinnacle of what they can achieve. Why seek change when they are comfortable as is? Even of those who protest and seek to actively change the world, they're primarily from two clades. One, people from a horrendous background who have risen above and seek to help others like themselves, or people from privilege who have never had to work for anything, so seek to find some other purpose. I'm just as lazy and content as the rest, so i'm not trying to decry the ideology, but people will never rise up until their own livelihoods are under fire.
There will be no globalist socialist revolution, the very idea is laughable.
The real threat to western civilization is Islam. But nobody will talk about it, because of liberal political correctness. There will be no more crusades, because our own sold us out to inane liberal thought policing - and they'll be the first with their heads cut off when the caliphate rises.
I'm deadly serious about this. I thought 10 years ago we were headed for a new Victorian age, but now, I don't see western society surviving much longer against the onslaught of Islam, and the direct opposition of western liberalism in fighting it in the name of "equality" and "anti-racism".
The worst part is that you think an attempt to solve things through peaceful means on the part of the civilian populace wouldn't just be shut down instantly. You really think no one's had your idea before? It doesn't work, numbnuts.
Islam had existed for a millenium and half, and it never destroyed the "western civilization". There is just a (big) bunch of faggots scared that a few sandniggers will come to Europe/USA and will replace one god by another.
Strong self-replicating systems exist because they are what survives. Its environment (technology/catastrophe) must change if the systems that exist are going to die. Darwinism innit.
Its laughable (imho) that people still today need some sort of "higher power" to make them feel "in control"/At ease.
If you call him Mohammed, Jesus, Abraham or whatever.
Even the brainist of brains to live (in the last century at least) understood that.
(and i quote)
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.
And even in ancient Greece they got it too.
Not wonder the world is a fuck up
too many insular views like this.
The tide of islam and liberalism - what you mean is the dark ages vs change and modernity.
Reality is if oil is to be gained moving forward the right shall have to invade iran.
the biggest reason to do so is apparently "I don't see western society surviving much longer against the onslaught of Islam, and the direct opposition of western liberalism in fighting it in the name of "equality" and "anti-racism".
See what i'm saying?
You are right. There is some wrong with the system, but it is not what you think.
1) there is no capitalism in the world, there has not been for nearly 100 years. The central banks, the government debt, the cronyism, the money that controls politics, none of these things would even be possible in a purely capitalist system. What you see around you is not a failure of capitalism, but a failure of government.
2) Inequality is not the enemy. Aristotle knew this over 2,000 years ago. The media tells you that inequality is bad. We are the "99%" but we still live at level unimaginable to even the wealthiest Kings of the past. I don't need to be equal with others, life is still better now than it ever was in the past.
3) the problem with the system is that the government does not respect our basic rights. We are property to them. Cattle to use and dispose of. Sheep to be led and lied to. And we have not only accepted this willingly, but we have been asking for it for decades.
4) The world you see is the result of the ideas, beliefs, and ideologies that people accept and live by, consciously or unconsciously. A revolution must start, but it cannot be a physical revolution, for we would only replace the system with another failure. We must change the minds of the whole culture, only then can the system be fixed.
5) Do not assume you have all the answers, none of us do. Find the truth, then spread it. Just remember one thing; you may have to change everything you believe. The truth may not be what you expect. Are you willing to accept the truth, even if it is not what you want to hear?
You guys can riot all you want, the rich won't really give a shit because we'll still be out there spending our time making money instead of being little pussies and complaining that life isn't fair
People need to grow up
Because hur derp. But let's be realistic. Fighters from IS will never be a real threat to NATO countries. It only won against Iraqi state, which was fucked up since 2003, and with a huge inner division, and Syria, who's at a civil war. How can you be scared of IS?
>inequality around the world has reached levels as never before in
That's because for the first time in history, humanity is advanced enough to even have such inequalities: before, everyone was more or less, very, very poor.
>23 years after capitalism won, does it now show it's real face?
It's nothing new, 18th and 19th century had the capitalism in even harsher form than today.
>The debt central banks have created since 2008 are on unprecedented and mind-boggling levels.
In short: it's all largely a fiction. From the times it stopped being exchangable to gold, the money is a fiction existing only basing on a widespread faith in it's worth. Conversly, people and companies believe that they owe the debts to other people and each other when in fact, the legitimacy of paper bills they transfer between each other is heavily in question, especially regarding the money-printing rituals.
>mfw my reference is to old
>mfw nobody gets this
Ah, yes, let's move those goalposts, who the fuck said anything about Isis, you mouthbreathing moron? If you think the only threat from islam is from this month's popular band of arabs with guns, you're too stupid to be talking in this thread.
Because life is a competition for survival by nature and even if there was no system the effort to survive half the current average lifespan would equate to a much more comfortable lifestyle within the system.
Capitalism is about accumulating money and goods that you will use later to obtain more money and goods. How can you say that there has been no capitalism in the last century? There is more capitalism nowadays than ever.
>inb4 free market
"Capitalism" is not a synonym of "free market". However, "free market" implies capitalism.
>inb4 state control is socialism
No, it is not.
"The real threat to western civilization is Islam"
But not religion itself/ christian media fulled propaganda designed to legitimise the invasion of the middle east for their profitable energy source, they is required for the next 100 years of western prosperity.
u wot m8
big enough tits in here fella!
The natural state of humanity is poverty.
We do not live in such a state any longer, and it is because of the win-win nature of voluntary trade. Inventors and businesses sell us things that we use to improve our lives. They make a profit and I can eat pineapples in the winter in New York. Win-win.
No, derplord, Sharia Law will destroy Western civ.
Pay attention, your civilization depends upon it - but you keep frothing your cute little bumpersticker slogans about how it's all about oil.
also have we not pretty much proven the biggest malice in society right here in this shitty thread.
we all argue and divide opinions so when shit happens it's too late to change anything anyway.
Also, civilization in first world countries right now are about as equal as they're gonna get.
I'm totally in support of equality for women and ending racism, but they pretty much succeeded already
All of the "problems" they complain about currently are either exaggerated facts or just other peoples opinions on them that they cannot change.
A racist will always be a racist, and that's they're opinion. You can't change that.
Mostly all of he race and gender inequality problems brought up today are excuses for their own personal failures that they are blaming on racism and sexism
I hate racism and sexism, but I hate the way they are used as excuses even more
Is there supposed be a connection to the word salad you posted, and what I said?
There are winners, and losers. Always will be, always has been. That has fuck-all to do with pineapples.
Your ignorance is stunning. This is why nothing can get done, most people like you are functional morons. Trained just enough to not piss in the streets most of the time, dumb enough to believe the bullshit that spews from your mouths.
Capitalism in modern use is not synonymous with free markets, that is true. However there is nothing inherent in capitalism which implies government intervention, control, regulation, etc...
That is why the elements of the modern system that involve such government activity are not part of capitalism, but are something separate that has coexisted with capitalism since the beginning. It is those elements of the system which create the problems.
The reason I said that there has been no real capitalism is that the government's actions have been to restrict and eliminate what are perceived as undesirable side effects of capitalism. So if you like I can amend my statement to the effect that "We have capitalism in chains, and the chains are the source of our trouble."
I don't expect agreement, but perhaps this will more clearly express my meaning.
>mfw when I didn't even mention oil
How can you still believe that Islam will impose sharya on your country?
>be Roman Empire
>be 476 A.D.
>be no Roman Empire no more
Tell me, Christian Civilization Warrior, what laws did barbarians apply?
But yes, keep thinking it's all about immigration. Meanwhile, you don't fight the powed (who gives no shit about your Christian Traditional Holy Values)
That may be true, I'm not too bright on the topic.
As I said racism and sexism are still alive, but most of the issues brought to light by the media (Ferguson, Anita Sharkesian, shit like that) are such a stretch, especially compared to segregation of immigrants like you said (if that is a major issue, I'm not sure)
I'm speaking as an American, just to put that out there
I don't want war, obviously, but I agree this government needs to be overthrown. The whole damn lot; Tory, Labour, Lib Dem and especially bloody UKIP. The economic setup is so screwed up and biased towards the rich. Likewise the legal system. Trouble is our population is composed of too many lazy, selfish people and the vast majority think they can't do anything about it anyway.>>583393179
Not exactly though, our Western capitalism has been largely outsourced to the countries where goverments don't give a fuck over 'chains' you've described (China, in particular).
Also, NLrF5XkU is a moron and an asshole.
The connection is clear.
You said that there must be winners and losers.
I said that it is possible for people to interact in ways that benefit both parties, which means that there are no losers.
I'm not saying that there are never winners and losers, I'm saying that mutua beneficial relationships are possible and do exist.
The pineapple was a simple example of the mutually beneficial relationship between a customer and a grocery store. Both got what they wanted, neither lost.
What is so difficult to understand about that?
>>583400550You really have an inflated sense of your own intelligence, don't you? But arguing with you would be like shooting retarded fish in a barrel. You're replacing logic and reason and facts with belligerence and attitude - typical American bullshit, in other words. And yes, I'm a US citizen, I know my own.
How can I believe Sharya law can be imposed? By the attempts by Muslims to have it implemented. I've been watching it creep in for 20 years now. They're also doing it in England, France and Scandanavia, and any country they have large settlements. They tried it in Australia, but the Aussies still have a backbone, and told them to piss up a rope.
By the way, using Christianity's methods of growing to prove Islam can't do the same is one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen someone attempt here. I expect idiots on 4chan, but you take it to a whole new level.
None of us do. Do you have Internet access? A computer? Did you eat today? How long did you spend hunting/ gathering/ farming your food? Do you have heat for the winter? Drinking water? A pair of pants? Do you shit in a toilet?
You do not live in the kind of poverty that has been an inescapable fact of human life so the dawn of humanity.
There are never winners and losers?
You're seriously going to go with an idiotic statement like that?
You've got to be a troll, nobody, even the most brainwashed and ardent liberal could say that with a straight face.
>everyone is aware that "something is wrong" with the system, yet no real resistance forms?
internet is part of the societal autism logic, more i'm connected,less i interact IRL, also, as difference increases, we don't interact no more, imagine complexity to organise and unite in this context.
a bubble about to pop in other words
>watch the economic statistics, you realize that the inequality around the world has reached levels as never before in history ?
hyper information helped the globalisation (son of "capitalism") to spread as the actual capitalism form, frontierless, move monies fastest than ever. the rich never meet the poor, the lacks of interaction also lead to a widder gap between them, preventin the possibility of an interaction as time goes. (see marx)
>since 2008 are on unprecedented and mind-boggling levels.
since ? lol 2008 is on consequence of the market need of rentability (12% with mortgage) shit was settled, when the poor were unable to pay, finaly, shit exploded, government prevented fatal error, but now, here we go again until next crisis. too big to fail or too fail to big logic actually prevent market responsabilization as their backbone of world economy actually.
>When will things change ?
with tension increases, revolution approach
>can they be changed without some major war or violent civil unrests?
easy one, no, lack of communiation between individuals lead to violence n agresivity. that literraly the bubble we facin.
>been watching it for 20 years
Wow, you are such an historian. You know well your facts because, far away from any muslim, you saw in the news that there were lots of them in Europe. I lived both in France and Spain. In France, I lived in the zones with a high concebtration of immigrants. You know what? They are not trying to impose sharya to anyone. They just live with their own culture on our soil, and that pisses off ruraltards who have barely ever moved from their native towns. Do you think that people voting against immigration is people who daily deal with immigrants? No. They are just fucking ignorants.
>I'm not saying that there are never winners and losers
>There are never winners and losers?
>You're seriously going to go with an idiotic statement like that?
either 0/10 troll or someone with IQ of a carrot
Quantitative Easing isn't over yet, and whether or not it turns out to be a success has yet to be seen. What is almost certain is that had Bernanke and Paulson not initiated asset buybacks I Sept 08, there would be no global economy to speak of today.
Most economic indicators, while not foaming, are recovering. QE has created some market distortions in the financial markets, specifically it has distorted the risk profile of corporate bonds and increased the use of disingenuous price pumping mechanisms like stock buybacks and frivolous tax-evasive cross borser M&A.
But you're being pretty pessimistic. Keep I'm mind, most people don't know/give a shit where money comes from.
And you're also making a way bigger deal of fractional reserve banking debt than it actually is. Like other posters say, it is regularly forgiven, and does not amount to a financial cartel robbing the treasury.
Actually the problem faced by those countries is similar. As I descr in my first post, the government does not respect our rights, however the government of China is worse. The citizens of China often have little choice but to work for terrible wages and long hours. This is because their government uses different kinds of "chains", to continue the analogy.
They do not have laws regarding minimum wages and maximum hours, but their economy is so restrictive that there are not better options for the workers.
If a company in the U.S. paid $2 and hour and had a 12 hour work day, nobody work there. (Ignoring for the moment the legal issue). If that was the only company and there was no other choice, everyone would work there.
>We can't go back in history. We have to move forward.
m8, did you know ? history is full of information about mistakes, as many don't listen to history, we repeat them, or didn't evolved since any mistake.
moving forward in history is actually reproducing past mistakes.
my brain is fucked.
'They're pointing out the enemy to keep you deaf and blind
They wanna sap your energy incarcerate your mind
They give you Rule Brittania, gassy beer, page three
Two weeks in Espana and Sunday striptease'
True then; true now.
France? They're bending over for the cock of Islam, don't make me laugh, little man. They practically clear the streets for Muslim youths to torch cars every summer, so they don't get hurt.
It'll be because of people like you, that the light of western civilization will be extinguished and all lost, in the name of "feels' and "equality". And your head will be in a pile with the rest of us non-believers.
Typical. Anytime things get fucked up, France is right in the middle of it all.
He died of a heart attack though?
If you're in a choke hold, you can't speak
I'm not trying to start shit I just want to hear why you think that?
I still think it was a fucked up situation but I just don't know all the facts
garner died of neck and torso compression. officially ruled a homicide by the coroner.
being choked does allow for exhalation, which is the basis upon which speech is produced, but doesn't allow for intake of new air.
Really? Name one part of the world where a large group of people live and do not have access to anything modern. Not modern hunter-gatherer tribes that refuse to moderize on purpose. Even In Africa they benefit from Western clothes, tools, charity from other nations, etc...
Even if there were such a place without any modern conveniences, not a single thing, even then that would prove nothing. The vast majority of the world still lives a a level that was unimaginable to less than 1% of the world only 200 years ago.
If the company you describe starts paying 2$ per hour, nobody will move to them... that's false. People greatly desperated to get a job will. But, let's suppose there is no such people. A company pays, let's say, 10$ per hour to low qualified workers. Bosses will certainly want higher profits, so they eventually low the wage to 9,5$ per hour. Workers won't all leave because they are not sure to find a job elsewhere. Maybe only a few will leave.
Because the company has lowered wages, it becomes more profitable and grows more. Other companies have no choice but to lower their wages, too. Perhaps to 9,25$ per hour. And so on. Of course, wages can't go down undefinitely, but they can get really low. The only way to stop it is by striking.
Okay, but in this case, China's policy can hardly be called 'using chains' as it actually favours capitalism rather than taming it.
Of course the biggest fraud in China - and the biggest one on the planet right now - is the goverment-controlled value of their currency that allows the goods to flow to the West at very low prices.
It really shows how fucked up this economy is. If producing shit on the other side of the world and then carrying it for 436634 miles on giant ships, wasting oil, coal, time and effort is cheaper than producing stuff where it's needed - wtf is this?
So strike. That is something else that they cannot do in places like China, because the government does not respect the rights of individuals.
As an aside, many companies have actually found that they can increase there profits and productivity when they increase wages by a certain amount. This does not work universally, but it does show that a profit driven company still has incentives to pay well, if the rest of the economy can support such a decision.
That's true only if a) the companies don't compete with each other at all and b) there's a constant wealth of potential new workers that could replace those who resign. Without first factor, you don't have capitalism but corporational oligarchy; and the second one doesn't occur in the West that much anymore, because businesses for low-qualified people are more profitable when moved to the Third World countries.
Well, there re actually more strikes in China then anywhere in the world. And their working conditions are slowly getting better.
Also, increasing profit by increasing wages is possible only in a certain type of companies in a certain amount that will increase productivity. But it doesn't increase forever.
>quantitative easing is not 'debt' per se but rather additional money in the economy. yes the treasuries technically owe the central banks money but it can be forgiven/paid.
you cannot have profit without deficit, so if you manufacture deficit, you manufacture profit.
its literally the crux of economics
Wages lowering is even more real because of competition: the more profitable you are, the longest and the highest you stay on the market.
And, corporate oligarchy is still capitalism.
I can see how it would appear that way, I'm afraid That the only thing I can do here is to compare and contrast China and the US.
Companies in the US are often much more profitable than in China, despite the government of China apparently helping capitalism. It seems that there help is misguided.
I think that if they truly wanted to support the growth of their economy they would remove the restrictions that prevent new businesses from starting, from allowing people more freedom to choose their careers, etc... A corporation needs to free from excessive government restrictions, but the people also must be free and allowed to build their own wealth, otherwise the corporation will have no customers.
Sorry if that's not a great argument this time, gf talking to me, got to go. Been fun.
Nothing is wrong with the system except the damn users.
People LET unions die to the point that they are a joke, they instead opted to raise the min. Wage to the point that small businesses are struggling.
People go on food stamps cause it is fucking easy and they won't have to try to get another job.
Police and lawyers, even in communist countries defend the upper class better because they can afford better cops (more local taxes better local cops) and better lawyers.
The debt is the fault of the fucking users. Don't borrow $500,000 if you work at Taco Bell, Postpone college and save up for it if you can't afford it.
>When will things change, and can they be changed without some major war or violent civil unrests?
Never, because people realize or should realize it is their own fucking fault.
>They practically clear the streets for Muslim youths to torch cars every summer, so they don't get hurt.
i assume you're american. cause u were misinformed, muslim, the word is incorrect, we call dem bougnouls another world for sandnigger, there is barely any religion in their behaviour, so our sandnigger burn car at christmas not in summer, in summer they wallets's robberies in south. and we don't clear our street, that's is actually the problem. gov is quiet n silent about this issues and the way to resolve the "san sylvester bonfire"
>in the name of "feels' and "equality"
actual politics and their retarded "erryone is good inside socialist logic"
we beheaded the king and some others leaders in the past, and many want violence to get back in france,culturaly, that's what happens everytime our jimmies rustle too much. also, fyi, we can hold weapons in france, with patience, 2 years of procedure before agreement.
our government are pussies, they don't share the same reality as the average french. we live in a country where we are defenseless against the sandnigg, no state protection, too hot potato subject. we fight back, as a man, we may be condemned to defend ourself.
we still fight back as much as we can, avoidin tribunals. we aren't as weak as tv describe us, or as dumb as snail eaters depicted.
>Typical. Anytime things get fucked up, France is right in the middle of it all.
you can say the same for america.