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>>578455312 I can understand intersex people due to the fact that no one is purely masculine or feminine, but giving it a 'spectrum' like that does nothing. People only believe in the spectrum because they want to feel special in a world where being 'normal' gets you places. They don't want to believe that. That's why I don't understand people that 'identify' as 'intersex', but obviously conform to a single gender. It's retarded
>>578455312 Nearly all of your behaviour, and particularly the way you all think about/judge behaviour, is in fact nothing more than a social construct. The stuff that's not learned from your retard faggot peers are mostly just a byproduct of the subconscious cowardice you feel in the face of your inevitable demise, and kneejerk retard reactions due to those confusing biological impulses you can't control (dem feels).
But none of that changes the fact that this conversation is stupid and you should kys
>>578455312 gender is purely physical. you can believe whatever you want about your personal identity but you will never change how your genetics function.
masculinity is the result of testosterone.
femininity is the result of estrogen.
not the other way around. it'll never be the other way around no matter how much you want it to be. take several thousand years worth of human development and you start to realize that gender roles are present not because people choose them, but because if you don't you will be bred out and deemed unfit to survive through evolution. as primal as it is, even though it might not serve such a blatant purpose in the 21st century, just because you CAN act like a freak show doesn't mean you SHOULD.
an entire race cannot function to support the weak spectrum of the masses. just look at niggers. they literally had to be race mixed to function.
enjoy your "freedom" while it lasts, genderbenders. you will all wither out and be unable to sustain yourselves. the history books in the future will mock your failed attempt just like every other massive historical failure.
The behavioral sciences are barely better than pseudoscience, due in no small part to the very unscientific intepretations of their scientific results by dumbass, not to mention the foundation of morality that all behavioural sciences are built upon without even seeming to realize it
You can't beat science OP. The fact is, men have a penis, and women have a vagina. Most human beings have the biological need to reproduce to propagate our species. Sexual reproduction occurs when a man impregnates a woman and that woman gives birth. This is true for the vast majority of men and women.
But we have complex brains, and some human beings are born attracted to the same sex. They can be perfectly normal and functional human beings otherwise, they are just attracted to their own gender. An even smaller percentage are born and identify as the opposite gender. Now, you can believe whatever you want, but a lot of very smart people have identified transgenderism as a mental disorder that may be treatable, and possibly curable with time. The facts bare this out as well, with many studies backing this up.
If you guys not what gender is a social construct that junkies overcome more. So if you are male and ack like a female, you are weird If you are female and ack like a male, you are weird If you are a faggot go fuck yourself
the overcomes of weird puls regection can lead you towards a junkie path, for your choise. You can became a junkie if your friends smoke pot
Gender is a linguistic tool used to represent sex, which is not a social construct. Stop listening to John Money and his ideas on gender, he only came up with them because he destroyed a guys dick and wanted to soften the blow.
>>578456831 Man, you're wrong because you don't know the difference between biological sex, and gender.
Gender has been created by anthropologist in order to study men and women places in differents groups. GENDER is what we call behaviors, psychological tendances and physical traits related to sex REPRENSATIONS (which implies is change depending on society. Biological sex is simply the fact that YOU HAVE BALL AND YO MOTHER HAVE A FUCKING VAGINA.
>>578457147 You, my dear brother, need to educate yourself. Emile Durkheim, a french sociologist, worked is whole life to prove the world that sociology is a science, he created the rules of the sociology method. also >not to mention the foundation of morality that all behavioural sciences are built upon without even seeming to realize it This testifies how little you know about the subject you're talking about.
>>578457539 Man, I really don't give a shit about what you think about gender. But I DO give a shit about people who think they know everything. I bet you never studied sociology. Or if you did, you were just to bad to understand
>>578455312 Is gender was a social construct and people who believe in such are happy to declare that homosexuals etc. were 'born that way', then the hypothesis of gender as a social construct is dead before it even left the dressing rooms to get to the starting line.
>>578459029 I think the point is that there is a difference between biological sex, which is defined by body parts, and gender identity, which is more about how you feel within your biologically given body. The idea is that there is no necessary correlation between your biological body and the way you feel about your identity. The fact that society imposes rules / normalizes what is male and female behaviour, does not mean you have to feel comfortable complying to these rules.
I like the idea, but despite the strong evidence this obviously cannot be "scientifically" proven.
>>578457909 No. No I don't, I've educated myself plenty. For the record, I called it "barely better than a pseduoscience"; I used the word barely because, yes, whenever someone properly follows the scientific method, it is technically science.
But if you disgaree with the green statement, you're dumb. It is absolutely, 100% true.
For an easy example, explain this: non-normative behaviours that are deemed to be harmful to society are diagnosed as "mental illnesses" that should be "treated (ie:: fixed)". So if you think a ceratin way, and not enough people think the way you do, and people decide that you're way of thinking hurts yourself or others in some way, you can be forefully incapaticatated with the intention of changing the way you think. Because that way of thinking is "wrong".
Bottom line: Looking at a normal distribution of other people's behaviour and looking at the std deviations from the mean and determining the norm is science, but by accepting that there is or should be a "proper" way to think and or behave your've crossed the line into morailty, there's no question about it.
>>578459702 What the fuck does that example have to do with sociology? You're equating our judicial system with sociology. Also, the concept of mental illness is a fairly recent invention and has changed throughout history. Read some fucking Foucault.
>>578455312 I don't give a flying fuck what you "identify" as. Just becasue you identify as a woman doesn't make you one, just like if I identify as a dragon I'm not suddenly a 30-foot-long flying lizard. Gender is decided by your chromosomes. I dont care what you do to your genitals you are still a man if you have an X and a Y and you can't change that no matter what the fuck you do. Trannys are living in denial and you OP can fuck off back to tumblr.
>>578455312 There are gender roles in wild animals. In humans, as in any other species, males and females have been selected by their partners to copulate during thousand of years. This means our DNA has been selected to make males attractive to females and viceversa. Different characteristics for each gender are imposed by evolution
>>578459702 I see your point, but I just disagree with this part >without even seeming to realize it Sociologist are trying to Objectivize social phenomenon. Of course, full objectivity is not possible, which means we (as sociologists) need to be fully aware of our social space, and social history to understand the way we normaly think (I mean by reflex. Am I clear ? My english may be really bad sometimes.). This is called Reflexivity, and it is a well known concept in sociology.
Also >For an easy example, explain this: non-normative behaviours [...] Because that way of thinking is "wrong". Yeah, I would explain that as a normal social interaction. Society is based on norms, you know it. If you don't follow these norms, you become a deviant, and you are punished (symbolically) to not follow it. and btw, some behaviors deemed to be harmful to our society can be deemed as correct or useful in others.
And I am not a sociologist, I'm just a student, So I don't pretend to know everything about Gender/sex and sociology, but I know enough to see that your (not just you, but many people in this thread) have a biased vision of sociology.
>>578460102 The data produced by all of behavioural sciences have and will always have a very large hand in constructing social policy and justice, not to mention guiding the prevailing social attitudes of a given time (which also controls the tides of so-called "justice").
That's why I clarified that I wasn't just talking about, say, the researchers themselves, who do good science, but moreso the practical implentation of their efforts, and the ripples that are created throughout the civilian community who mostly misunderstand the meaning behind the things they're doing.
>>578460987 GENDER is what we call behaviors, psychological tendances and physical traits related to sex REPRENSATIONS (which implies is change depending on society. Biological sex is simply the fact that YOU HAVE BALL AND YO MOTHER HAVE A FUCKING VAGINA.
>>578457235 Agreed, we don't treat it as such and it's fucking stupid. Instead, we pump them full of drugs and tell them it's completely acceptable for them to be living with that disease; saying otherwise will get you in shit because 'we don't understand the trangendered fuckers' and 'we can't be so insensitive'.
If we're going to do this, and support a mental problem we may as well tell a depressed and suicidal person to kill themselves and hold their fucking hand through the process
>>578460971 Never said gender was equal to sex you retard lol. you can change your sex, you have every right to mutilate your cock and call yourself a woman. but deep down your gender is still male, you just sliced up your cock so you can call yourself female.
>GENDER is what we call behaviors, psychological tendances and physical traits related to sex REPRENSATIONS (which implies is change depending on society. Biological sex is simply the fact that YOU HAVE BALL AND YO MOTHER HAVE A FUCKING VAGINA.
>>578461248 personally I wouldnt even call those or whatever else you can think up a gender, its more like an abomination to society >>578461314 Yes there are males that act feminine and there are women that act masculine but fact of the matter is that you're not male or female because thats what you "identify" as and if you think thats the case then fuck off back to tumblr you pathetic excuse for a human being
>>578460672 I think you should look at gender not as a biological fact, but a number of characteristics. In that way, I think it is very easy to accept the notion of gender as a spectrum. For example: rationality, confidence, strength, etc are generally considered masculine characteristics, whereas emotionality, tenderness, etc are feminine. However, most people never possess uniquely the characteristics of one side, but are a combination instead (granted, usually leaning towards the ones that are associated with their biological sex). For that reason, you are never really fully male or female and that makes it a lot easier to identify differences among people and ultimately accept these differences.
>>578455312 If gender is a social construct, and has nothing to do with your body, then its entirely arbitrary and therefore doesnt even have a reason to exist. In that case why even define yourself by it? Thats something i never got about trangendered people, if you can just decide your gender seperate from your body, then its meaningless so why care what gender you are.
>>578455312 this picture is so wrong... I love how people try to avoid truth just because they aren't satisfied with answer. This make us such an ignornat spicies. We tend believe small lies so we can not see the big ones just because it's easier that way.
>>578462042 >if you can just decide your gender seperate from your body, then its meaningless so why care what gender you are.
Good point. I think that many transgendered people would be happy to not be defined by their gender. However, since it is such a powerful concept and does not really have an alternative, it is hard to think post-gendered.
>>578461083 Okay, then can we at least agree that "normal social interaction" has a huge component of morality attached to it? I mean, just look here, or anywhere else on the internet: nothing brings people together like having somebody else to look down upon. It's annoying enough to deal with society in general thinking they're righteous in enforcing their opinions on other people; I get truly upset when it appears that "science" is taking part in helping that happen. As I already mentioned, sociologists have a huge hand in constructing and implementing social policy, despite whatever their non-moral intentions may be.
Also, one huge disconnect I have with the behavioural and mental sciences is that the vast majority of data comes from self-reporting (how does one feel inside?) and from observational studies/experiments which are often improperly setup, and even more often, improperly intepreted.
I really don't know why people do this. Its simple. Its like everyone for the most part has either an apple or an orange in their pocket.
Some people see this and are comfortable with it. Others see the apple and think, "I don't feel comfortable with this, I feel more like the ideals that are more commonly associated with an orange apply to me better". And in between those two is a whole spectrum of other likes, dislikes, comforts and discomforts with that fruit you have.
But at the end of the day, biologically, for the most part its still just these two fruit.
Were you born with a dick? >yes then you are MALE.
were you born with a vagina? >yes then you are FEMALE
did you have an operation to fuck up your genitals so you can "identify" as another gender? >yes great, do what makes you happy, but don't you dare tell me with your flatchest and manface that you are a woman when you actually just have a mutilated dick.
>>578463172 >1st world problems People deal with the issues they experience everyday. We can't do shit to help africans or rape victims in India except blindly donate money. People sort out their own problems with their own neighbours.
>>578455312 No. Gender isn't something for your self. It is what other poeple see you as. You can think you are a nigger, but when you are white you are just some idiot playing like he's a nigger. The same goes for gender. Yeah you can think or wish you were female, but that doesn't make you female. You are still treated as a male, because other people identify you as a male. Gender is a social construct, but that social construct is based on our biology. That's why women are sluts while men aren't, it's why children are seen as something "valuable". You can get an operation to look like a female and you will probably be treated as such, but don't fucking expect people to first ask what gender you would like to be reffered to, they will make assumptions on how you look. You can really think what ever you want about yourself, but other peolpe can not be expected to view you in the same way. We just have to stop telling our children "Wishes come true" and instead tell them "If you have a wish work for it, untill you reach it". That's the problem. People like to be passive, "Hey look I look exactly like every other male, but I wish to be treated as a wyman because my butthole is wider than the blackhole in the center of our galaxy." Instead you have to communicate to otherpeople that you want to be treated as woman. Get a fucking operation and therapy. Yeah they cost a shit ton of money, but so does everything. You have to look if it is worth the money to you to be treated as a woman.
>>578456831 >gender is purely physical. you can believe whatever you want about your personal identity but you will never change how your genetics function.
Uh duh? That's not an argument for your cause anon. Trans people have been scientifically proven to have brains that produce the hormone that matches their desired gender. I know a trans dude, black. He's a fucking BRO. He's not even on testosterone yet, and he knocks ALL the bitches in gym around like rag dolls. He looks like a dude, talks like a dude, acts like a dude, hasn't ONCE acted bitchy or emotional during a period, and when we talk about sex he says he'd rather take it in the ass or fuck a guy with a strapon than use the vagina he unfortunately has.
I'm going to assume you're a biological male anon. Now I'm also going to assume you identify as a male as well. That's a safe fucking bet since only 2% of people are trans or intersex. Go take estrogen pills for a month. You will want to KILL YOURSELF in about a week. Promise. It's simple neuroscience. Yet trans people THRIVE when given the hormones they want. Why the fuck is that? SCIENCE BITCH, IT WORKS.
>>578461953 You are exactly what feminazis want. You have listened to them and let their fucking retarded ideals take over your mind. Gender is simply decided by your genetic makeup, your chromosomes. Its simple biology. Thinking it is a decision made by you based on how you feel is stupid and wrong.
>>578463718 dumbshits like you keep misinterpreting my shit. I don't fucking care what other people call themselves. But to say that the concept of gender as a whole is wrong and the opposite of what it actually is genetically, is a load a horseshit go back to tumblr bitch.
>>578455312 Bullshit. Males are male, females are females, straight is normal and queer isn't, and bisexuality and transgender are examples of pathetic people ashamed of their sexuality. Bi and granny's need to be exterminated.
>>578464651 Are all of you retarded troglodytes inbred rednecks who don't get this shit or what? I seriously don't understand why you all are so terrified of change to the point that you go blind with rage.
>>578464369 >But to say that the concept of gender as a whole is wrong
I'm not saying its wrong, just a lot broader than people feel comfortable with. Which is what leads to all the HURF DURFing and line pissing thats happening in this thread. People screaming "YOU'RE NOT A WOMAN UNLESS I THINK YOU'RE A WOMAN" when in reality, what someone identifies as doesn't really have anything to do with them.
>>578464653 This I knew already, but I'm not seeing how matching hormones to the gender you want to be will actually change you into that specific gender. If I were to begin taking estrogen, I would still be a male, albeit with high estrogen levels.
>>578464849 >bisexuality and transgender are examples of pathetic people ashamed of their sexuality. Wat. Bi people are ashamed of their sexuality? Uh right lol. Because Marlon Brando was so ashamed of fucking guys and girls right? >granny's need to be exterminated. What the hell do you have against grandma's you sick bastard?
It's quite obviously not a social construct. There have been many boys who have had accidents or deformities to their genitalia and the suggested course of action was to raise them as female.
If this was simply a social construct then they would conform based on how they were raised and treated. Except, it doesn't work that way, even being raised female, and believing they were female, they still identified as male. This tends to end disastrously as in the case of David Reimer, who eventually committed suicide.
Further study into this was done by Milton Diamond, Ph.D. and H. Keith Sigmundson, M.D. and their findings were to this similar conclusion.
>>578455312 gender ROLES are a social construct, and defying those role sgiven to you in preference for roles given to others, or a mixture, would result "identifying" as not your own gender. people who dont identify as the gender they are probably can be explained in this way. the reasons are varied though
>>578465137 Because you're NORMAL. You would develop tits, but you'd also want to fucking kill yourself because that's what a hormonal imbalance DOES. Yet trans people DON'T. That's what I'm talking about it. DUH
>>578459662 Wow, I thought this was some sort of cringe post, but you actually seem to be serious about this. If you can't find the biological evidence that identifies you as male or female I have some bad news for you mate.
Biological gender is not a social construct, save very few special cases. This can actually be observed in many different ways, for example, females exposed to high amounts of androgen prenatally will show masculine characteristics. Damage to the hypothalamus can also cause gender identity crises.
Other studies on gender show that males will choose more object based toys, like trucks or cars, while females will choose dolls and other such feminine toys. This also bridges the gap between species, vervet monkeys, when given these toys, tend to choose toys that would be "stereotypical" of their gender, IE: Male monkeys will choose masculine toys such as objects with wheels, while females will choose dolls and plush toys.
The female and male brain are pretty different, as already stated the hypothalamus changes significantly between genders, as well as the prefontal cortex, and brain densities. Of course the brain was size adjusted when these differences were studied.
Not to mention the numerous studies done on people who had their genders switched at birth for one reason or another, they often report depression, gender identity crises, ect.
It's pretty easy to see gender is not a social construct.
I agree with that. People are born with penis/vagina which effects their hormones and thus to a certain degree also their behaviour/personality. So you could build stereotypes, but as with all stereotypes they don't fit to anyone - but honestly who cares. Everyone should behave how the fuck he wants, who cares. All this gender shit is the stupid try to make every1 to fit in some stupid category. The whole 'gender discussion' is shit.
>>578465270 Mocking retarded people has nothing to do with being so stupid you can't understand the difference between, gender, sex and identity. Say nothing of how PROUD these ignorant fuckwits are of being so fucking stupid. You throw science at them, and they come back with "hurr durr it's a leebrul agenda hurr durr."
>>578465441 >If anyone can identify themselves as anything with no questions asked, what's the usefulness of gender then? When did anyone say this? What are you even trying to say? >Now that women can now have dicks and balls, whats the point of even using the term to describe them. Or do you expect all heterosexual men to suddenly develop a taste for the cock? Uh no? You don't want to deal with a trans woman, then just don't fuck one! How hard is that to do?
>>578465523 The point of a spectrum is that it has two ends, in our case being completely male and completely female. Everything that falls in between is a combination of the two. Identifying with a dragon therefore mean you are drifting away from the spectrum. So I would say you could not get away with that.
However, some other anon mentioned in this thread that there are now people who identify with inanimate objects. I'm not really sure what to think of that at this point, but I'm leaning towards bullshit at this point. But then again, they're not bothering me, so live and let live.
>>578465704 Then you're too stupid to get it. You can do your own research then. Till then, you're not any more of an authority on gender identity, or what hormones do and do not do, than anyone else in this thread.
>>578466053 Maybe cause their parents/ads told them these were a boy's/ a girl's toys. As a child, you want to do well, so do you as you're said, even without noticing. If what you're saying is true even on a "biological" issue, that'd not a problem. Gender "structure" is just here to tell people to live their life they way they want, so if a boy enjoys himself playing with "manly" toys or "girly" toys, he shouldn't be mocked for his choice.
I understand what you are saying, but I would ask you: does the gender is NECESSARY related to sexual orientation ?
MY ANSWER would be no, because gender is a way to describe how much "man" or "woman" there is in one human being. Because like I said before: Gender is the name we give to behaviors, psychological tendances and psysical traits related to biological sex (By related I mean "deemed as Feminine" in the case of feminity, and "deemed as masculine" in the case masculinity")
So when I see this: >>578464298 >Yeah you can think or wish you were female, but that doesn't make you female It's not only about that, and I think these are psychological "issues". These people must they are beings trapped in wrongs bodies, this doesn't sound like as a social issue to me, it's completely psychological.
Like I said before in this thread, and like I repeated again and again, gender has been created by Anthropologist in order to describe social interactions between men and women. So yeah, I don't think gender is related to sexual orientation. I think it's about how feminine or masculine you are, and this is totally socialy constructed, because these behaviors, psychological tendances and physical traits are taught by the society (little boys like blue, little girls like pink, little boy shall open his fucking mouth more often that little girls, who shall shut the fuck up)
>>578465846 No you didn't understand. What am I telling you, is thats Gender DOESN'T MEAN biological sexe. There is biological evidences that identifies me as a male, because there is biological evidences that identifies one's biological sexe. BUT there is not biological evidences that identifies one's gender, because, and I repeated myself on this whole thread, GENDERS are behaviors, psychological tendances and physical traits that are related to biological sex. You follow me m8 ?
>>578455802 SJW are the new Christians. We had the crusades (stupid people killing other people over a belief contradicted by science). Now we have feminist (stupid people believing that genders are equal, there are more than 2 genders, gender is a choice, the patriachy exists) Stupid people will always find some way to fit in. To bad there are so many stupid people.
Now OP should go back to tumblr and post about being triggered.
>>578466418 >When did anyone say this? What are you even trying to say? What are the standards to determine one's gender? That's what I'm asking, because so far all I have seen is "If you feel that way that's what you are".
>Uh no? You don't want to deal with a trans woman, then just don't fuck one! How hard is that to do? So you think trans-women shouldn't be identified as simple "women"?
>>578465729 LOL wow you're stupid. You can't identify as black because you don't have black skin. It doesn't work like that. If someone has a female brain, but a penis they can identify as female or whatever they want. Gender has way less bearing on society than race currently. Please though, for the sake of everyone go walk into a hood and declare yourself black. See how well that goes for you. OR better yet jump into the ocean and see how your dolphin identity helps you breath water. Fucking idiot.
>>578466048 Name calling is usually a pretty good sign that you have a shit argument. If you are unable to convince people of the validity of your argument, maybe the blame lies with you for being a poor communicator.
Maybe you need to adjust your own mental gymnastics routine to include believing people are agreeing with you when they say youre wrong?
Gender is a social construct. The word didn't begin to differentiate between the word sex until the 50s and wasn't widespread until the 70's. Just because you call an apple an orange doesn't make it true. And even if you convince most of the word to start calling apples oranges, that apple is still an apple. You faggots can call yourselves whatever you want. Be my fucking guest. Stop trying to force your dillusions on the rest of us. "I wanna be a girl! Someone sexually abused me, maybe I didn't get enough hormones during womb development or maybe I got too many, maybe I'm just a fucking faggot. I don't feel normal so I'll join with all the other faggots and make normal people the abnormal ones! We'll even call people who are normal something else!" Serious question: what the fuck does CIS mean?
No. This thread is stupid. Gender is a hard reality, cock=male vag=fem. What you choose to do with that, what you want to have, what you want to be, is absolutely diferent. Its like if I got myself covered in tree bark and said "my species is treekind, I am not human." What OP says is retarded and all who agree with him should feel bad.
>>578466764 >genders are equal because they aren't ? >there are more than 2 genders, gender is a choice Who cares >the patriachy exists Without trying to sound obnoxious, learn what cultural marxism is.
>>578466712 The psychology of sex is closely related to your genitals, as mentioned in my previous post the mind is heavily effected by what sex you are.
This is actually pretty odd that you would want to accept this, seeing as how these people have real problems, however this brings us to the age old question of if we should fix broken people if they like it or not.
>>578466779 >So you think trans-women shouldn't be identified as simple "women"? No, I was differentiating for your benefit given that you're an idiot. Other than that I don't bother to. >What are the standards to determine one's gender? That's what I'm asking, because so far all I have seen is "If you feel that way that's what you are" Then you haven't been paying attention. If you're trans then you are the gender you're actively trying to transition to. Do you have even the slightest idea what these people do to themselves? NO one but people with severe conflict would actually go through with this shit. But here you are all "hurr durr it's gawnna be chaos if we aren't totally close minded bigots!"
>>578467230 >The psychologye of sex is closely related to your genitals Yes, but I am not talking about psychology, I'am talking about sociology, and that make a HUGE difference. Maybe that's where we have difficulties to speak about the same subject
>>578466814 The whooshing sound you are hearing his that guys point going over your head.
>You can't identify as black because you don't have black skin. >It doesn't work like that. >If someone has a female brain, but a penis they can identify as female or whatever they want. You contradict your point. If you don't have black skin, you cant be black. If you don't have a vagina, you can very easily be a woman by claiming i am a woman. Are you fucking retarded?
>>578466859 >Name calling is usually a pretty good sign that you have a shit argument > arguing about formal debate etiquette on /b/ No. It's actually a pretty good sign that I'm just irritated by how stupid you and the rest of humanity is.
I think the way we have gender roles in society is mostly a social construct, but some things run a bit deeper.
No matter how much sjw scream and wave their hands, men and women are different. Both physically and chemically. There is a reason why pretty much every olympic record for the men's division is better than the women's. We are build differently.
>>578467617 Nowadays we call people otherkin and feminist. We used to call the dellusional amd give them their pills. Tollerance has gone to far today. Being mentally unstable does not make you a supressed minority.
>>578467501 >No, I was differentiating for your benefit given that you're an idiot. Other than that I don't bother to. So you think heterosexual males who don't want to have sex with woman with dicks are idiots? Or is your argument that trans-women and women are immediately distinguishable? Or do you think that trans-women should be expected to disclose their status to strangers they might have a romantic interest in?
>If you're trans then you are the gender you're actively trying to transition to. Do you have even the slightest idea what these people do to themselves? Except that's not true for all of them, not even most. A lot of them for example don't have sex reassignment surgery. In fact, its considered trans-phobic to expect it of them.
>>578467590 What do you mean? Neurobiology and Psychology have studied the mind it's clear that the mind is not separate from your genitals, far from it. Sociology is the study of human social structures and saying the nature of the mind has nothing to do with sociology is ignorant.
>>578467474 Because Marxism is dealing with the way structures alienate people, patriarchy is by definition one of these structures. If you study the way this alienation occurs, you could see why patriarchy exists. Not trying to say "hey you're a fag that doesn't see what I see so you're wrong", just that it is normal to not notice these structures since we're drown in them since birth. One year ago, I was, by obscurantism, conviced feminism was useless as well.
>>578468374 Besides the fact that socialism itself is flawed you do really think you are a special snowflake don't you? >The whole world is stupid and I am one of the few who knows what is really going on.
I have yet to see a shred of evidence concerning the very existence of the patriachy. I think woman in the western world are much more priviledged than men are.
>>578463015 >can we at least agree that "normal social interaction" has a huge component of morality attached to it? Of course we agree mate, but the fact that social phenomenon has a huge component of morality attached to it doesn't mean the conclusions of a study made by a sociologist would be moraly oriented has well, thanks to the reflexivity I talked you about earlier. But Like I said, full objectivity does not exist.
>>578468317 I mean that the fact that you are more feminine or more masculine depends on how you have been socialized to gender. Take a girl, let her grow in a family in which she only have brothers, with a father who likes sports alot, in an environnement in which she HAS to be more masculine to be respected, she has chances to be more masculines, and this is a social phenomenon
>>578468293 >it means being normal. Without noticing, you just demonstrated what feminists are trying to fight against. Why would you define one way to live to be the normal just because it is the most "wide-spread" one, the "biological" one ? There is obviously nothing mean in your comment but it just carries and feeds a culture that paint people not fitting in as abnormals, which lead to discriminarion while these people just want to enjoy life like everyone else.
Doesnt matter if its socially constructed or not, gender literally means nothing. For example, among men, everyone has a different size dick, they cant (without surgery) change this, its a fact of their existence. Everyone can have feelings about the dick they've been dealt - but we dont have labels for the gradations of feelings men can have about their dicks, because it doesnt matter what you think about your dick, it matters what you do with it.
Sure, the way you think about your penis changes the way you act, and the decisions you make, and we DO chose to label these actions (sexual orientation, etc)...thats because nobody gives a shit about your internal monologue
>>578468170 'Cisgender has its origin in the Latin-derived prefix cis-, meaning "on this side of," which is an antonym for the Latin-derived prefix trans-, meaning "across from" or "on the other side of"'
>>578468293 I'm more concerned with normal being lumped in with all this gender shit. My children will be taught that men and women are biologically different. That there are occasional genetic hermaphrodites but those are rare and rarely reproduce. That men who run around calling themselves women, vice versa, dogs, dragons, niggers, whatever the fuck have one of several problems. They have an imbalance of hormones, they didn't recieve enough testosterone or too much in the womb, they suffered some sort of childhood trauma, or they suffered from some social disorder that doesn't allow them to interact with other people in a normal way. I refuse to accept that normal is somehow the same as not normal.
>>578469003 >Why would you define one way to live to be the normal just because it is the most "wide-spread" Because that's what the word means? It wasn't used to pass judgment on people until relatively recently. In fact in many places it still isn't.
>>578469003 >not fitting in as abnormals You do know this place is loaded with abnormals right? They are not abnormal. They are mentally insane. If somebody starts to tell you God speak through him and he can see and hear him than we would also consider him insane.
>>578468860 This is not for attention, I just want to add to your point- I am a female in the western world and I agree wholeheartedly that women in the West are more privileged than men are.
It's considered common courtesy to hold doors open for us, to buy food for us, to take us out to places on men's dimes...
I've actually gotten jobs simply because I am female, be it because the manager was attracted to me or because they wanted a more 'diverse' workplace, that job was received not by skill or by experience but by fucking gender.
Men are expected to take care of us. It's perfectly okay if we decide we'd like to be housewives and stay at home. Sure it's not easy cleaning and taking care of little shits all day, but it's a hell of a lot easier than digging coal. It's even 100x easier to get laid as a woman.
We are much more privileged than men.
>Rant over Tits or GTFO me if you will, but the post is on-topic and relevant to the thread, and I'm not asking for attention or saying I'm right simply because I have some fatbags attached to my chest.
>>578468860 If I considered myself as a "special snowflake", I wouldn't try to argue over the internet, I would just have a wank everytime I remember how great I am... I don't really care who is more priviledged than who, the problem is that we're giving roles to people based on their gender while they're just people.
>>578469403 >If somebody starts to tell you God speak through him and he can see and hear him than we would also consider him insane. There's a difference, here you are talking about someone that could do harm to others.
In greek antiquity, the word "sexuality" didn't even exist. Sex was thought something as natural, it was artistic, and persuasion of your desires and acting upon your dthem was actually thought to be the contemplation of self(E.g hedonism) but soon in 18 century, and 19 century during the rise of bourgois society, Sexuality was studied under the scientific domain which rise to the termd like "Homosexuality", "Heterosexuality" and other forms pervasive sexuality. Thanks to psychoanalysis and biology we have come to what our sexuality is.
>>578468954 Female variability in gender is actually less rigid than males, in the reverse case, where there was a single boy and a bunch of girls, you would see that the boy is still just as masculine than he would be around brothers. Also, I doubt your idea that there's some form of hormonal difference based on social environment. If you have studies related to that, I'd like to see them, if you don't, I'm going to consider it not quantifiable in the slightest.
>>578469774 Can you even read? "across from" and "on the other side" refer to cis' antonym 'trans'. Perhaps I should've included the rest of the quote to make things a little clearer. 'In the case of gender, cis- is used to refer to the alignment of gender identity with assigned sex.' It's really not that difficult friend.
>>578470337 Let me explain. If somebody sees God and talks to him but still fuctions normal in society we would still consider him insane. He might go off one day and start killing people because he thinks that is what God tells him.
If somebody think he is a wolf and still fuctions normal in society he is still insane. He might go off someday howling at the moon and kill some bystanders. He might not go off. Still he is insane.
How femminsm harms people? They are picturing all man as rapists. There have been several cases where they beat up somebody who was a suspect in a rape case while he still wasn't convicted. The laws they help to create that give woman more rights than men.
>>578470474 I'm clinically depressed (I have a bipolar disorder to be exact) but mental illnesses aren't things that you can heal, you can only suppress them through medicine but it'll never go away, it is how your brain was made and that's it. You can't prevent people from psychologically harming themselves, only physically.
>>578470314 >>578470465 Are you kidding me? 97% of combat deaths are male? How can that even be remotely surprising if that is also approximately the percentage of men in the army. To me, this only further proves that certain professions and certain behaviour is socio-historically constructed.
>>578470337 By making it infinitely harder for men to function normally in society. By causing them to lose custody battles almost 100% of the time unless they put in more effort than it is usually worth, and even then they still lose the majority of the time.
By demonising men- their image in society as a whole is hurt.
By ruining the lives of boys and men by teaching them not to be masculine and making their urges feel abnormal. Just looking at a woman is 'rape' to some. A male growing up in a feminist household has conflicted views on life from the get-go. Don't you think that could cause some level of mental anguish later on when his life is falling to pieces?
You can ignore me if you want but that doesn't change the fact that physical harm is not the only harm.
>>578470018 >hormonal difference based on social environment. You misunderstood me. In sociology we use the concept of Hexis, which is physical disposition of acting. When you see a woman, you can tell she is a woman thanks to her body and her attitude. I am not talking about a hypothetical hormonal difference based on social environment, I'm talking about the attitude of being a male/female. You know, behaviors deemed as maculine/feminine.
When I took the example of a girl growing in a masculine environment, I didn't want to say that she would developp a way to create testosteron, this is completely absurd, and it goes against evolutions laws, which is fucking stupid. I was just saying that she would get more of a man attitude, a male hexis
>>578471114 Men are biologically more violent and have been the majority in battles across all geographically diverse cultures. I doubt it's a coincidence that every single culture has had a hugely male dominated fighting force.
>>578471478 Sadly I can't prove you this kind of thinking is just that of tumblr-tier man-hating whores. Actual IRL feminists that I know are pretty cool and kindly want to ditch their privileges in custody ect. Maybe the IRL grills I know are less representative of the movement than the tumblr idiots, I don't know anymore. Just fight for equality guys, don't care in what name you're doing it, blame people for the wrong they do but not the movement they want to represent.
>>578455312 Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity. Depending on the context, these characteristics may include biological sex (i.e. the state of being male, female or intersex), sex-based social structures
>>578472030 I agree with you on that. Men are indeed physically stronger and therefore comprise the largest part of the army. However, I do not think that this counts as evidence for the statement that men are more oppressed in contemporary society than women. The fact that they are generally more prone to violent/dangerous behaviour does not make their lifes harder. They do not HAVE to do this.
>>578472490 I know a lot of girls who hate feminism. And yes there are some things wrong with this world. Like the woman who died in miscariage because the docters wouldn't abort. But femminism makes it harder for woman to be taken seriously.
>>578472267 I don't disagree that the majority of Feminists aren't all that bad and just want equality.
All that I'm trying to say is that the loudest and most obnoxious ones have changed society the most and that their general cuntbaggery is actually having a detrimental effect on men (and how men are viewed).
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