How were elves turned into orcs? And which people who Tolkien

>>575461637
wh....what?

I don't...I don't fucking know, man.

If you boil it down to the basics: torture an elf get an orc.

>>575461637
Elves only turn into orcs in The hobbit and Lord of the rings Orcs are their own species in most other media

>>575461637
What is google?
Why can't newfags use it?

>>575461637
they did gay sex, and thats what happens when you do those things, you become an evil creature of darkness like all the fags arround the world

>>575461817
Bing master race nigga

>>575461637
The study of dark sorcery. Think of how biologists experiment on animals, change their genes, make them glow, etc, but only with magic.

>>575461637
What about Uruks? Why do they come from trees and shit?

it's actually just dirt and elf semen in that universe

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>>575461637
you call those orcs?

here's what a real orc looks like

>>575461637
If Sauron is stronger than Saruman, then how come Uruk-hai orcs are much better than Suron orcs?

>>575461940
Wait, I thought urukai were the Orc-looking elves? Basically just dark sorcery on elves turns them into monsters. Bilbo ended up looking like a goblin once they took the ring away from him

>>575462101

Actually I believe Sauron has his own breed of uruks and they are better than Saruman's. I'm not sure tho

>>575461802
Technically they are their own species in LOTR and the hobbit, since they cant intermingle with the elves. Think wolves and dogs

They were turned to orcs because they didn't have enough elf esteem.

Fuckin Retards.

Mellkor, whom is basicly a god made the Orcs as a Mockery of the elves. He did this by torturing elves and breeding them into their own species over thousands of years.

Saruman is not stronger then Sauron, they are Both Maiar, but Sauron is the Greatest Maiar. Saruman did not "Invent" Uruk-hai, Neither did Sauron they are a sub breed of Orcs, both use, since orcs are pussies in sunlight

>>575461637
Same way snow elves turned into falmer probably.

>>575462284
Really? Well that would explain it then

>>575462435
Poison mushrooms and douchebag dwarven overlords?

>>575461637
Ask fucking Morgoth, man.
The Black Enemy of the World.

>>575462094
did you know that Uruks considder orcs only as worthless filth

>>575462335
Yes but in other media forms like WOW and WH40K or WH they are their own species

If I recall correctly, the ocs were bred in mockery of the elves, just like the trolls were the ents. This, to me, suggests that orcs were created by crossbreeding several different middle earth creatures in order to create a creature that was similar to an elf, but twisted and evil.

>>575462335
Wolves and dogs CAN breed though.
They both belong to the genus Canis and they are in the same family, Canidae.

get your facts straight bro

>>575462525
Thats Falmer not Orcs

>>575462397
This man knows his Silmarillion-

>>575462216
WHO ARE THEY PULLING OUT OF THE TREE MUD?!

Orcs were made by the first dark lord (Morgoth I think was his name) by torturing the shit out of elves. Over time orcs started to evolve a bit. The ones that lived in the mountains and never left are referred to as goblins, the ones that come out at night are just called orcs. Goblins are smaller, orcs are larger.

Uruks are a crossbred species between the two with some dark magic added so they can travel in daylight.

Saying Saruman is stronger than Sauron because he made better orcs is like saying anyone who makes a kick ass dog breed is more powerful than (insert god you believe in).

>>575461637
it was his prostate he was thinking about; it must have turned bad

>>575461637
98 get

>>575462904
They are the same species if they can breed though, which they arent

>>575462397


/thread

>>575463284
>Still going by out of date bs definition
>Missing off the important part of the definition
Go back to school anon.

>>575463135
Don't orcs travel with Uruks in the daytime?

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Racism_in_Tolkien%27s_Works

Who were the Orcs then?

>Elves turning to Orcs

>>575463135

Sauce on this? Most of the details jive with what I remember, but I thought that orcs were bred to imitate elves and that they weren't actually bred from elves themselves.

>>575462397
nerd

>>575463446
What are you on about? Speak proper

>>575462982
No fucking shit, did you read the comment I was replying to?

>>575461637

Torture & breeding with foul creatures or smth.

What do you mean which people?

>>575463801
You're in a thread about LOTR lore...

Yeah.

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>>575461637
>And which people who Tolkien referred to?

wat

Orcs are just elf traps.

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>>575462370
underrated post

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There's a spell for this in the player's handbook.

>>575461637
>How were elves turned into orcs?
Sauron fucked an ent.

>>575462101
>Because he has alot more orcs than saruman's uruks

If the orcs evolved from elves, why are there still elves?

Checkmate atheists.

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>>575462094
'Ou finkin' das wut orkz be lookin like?
DIS BE WUT DA REAL OKR BOYZ BE LOOKINIT!

>>575462284
No, for some odd reason saruman's orcs were stronger. More energy went in to creating them. But they seem to be less independent and not really make strategies on the spot. Sauron seems to have a more free thinking orcs under his command.

>>575463995

Tolkien created LOTR based on our world. Rohan were Scandinivians, Dwarves were Jews, what about Orcs? Who were the Orcs?

>>575461769
>torture an elf get an orc.
And what happens if you torture an orc ?

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>>575462397
^

>>575463912
Lol, no. Where the fuck do you think you are?

>>575464579
Nazis

>>575463446
It's not out of date or wrong, retard

>>575463135
BUT WHY DO THEY PULL THEM OUT OF MUDDY TREES?!

>>575464650
You get a very upset orc.

But if you cuddle an orc, you have your elf back, I guess.

>>575464650
more orc? is /b/ this stupid?

>>575464650
He eats you

>>575463854
Ok, the definition by why you have defined species is incorrect for a large part. Not only has it been surpassed by many different definitions that apply to different frames of life, It is also incomplete.
You mean to say that two agents are considered the same species if they can breed to produce fertile offspring.
>Fertile Offspring
But this doesn't seem to matter with regards to other forms of life, I.e Strictly A-Sexual life forms.

Did i speak proper enough for you? Do i have to use simpler words, maybe even some pictures?

>>575464781
With the help of dark/black magic, they can be reproduced this way.

>>575462397
So what's the difference between orcs and goblins?

>>575464579
Dwarves were Irish. Short, annoying, loud, drinks a lot, likes gold. They even have irish accents in the movies. As the other anon said orcs are Nazis and Hitler is Sauron. And Saruman is Stallin. Curchill is Gandalf probably or something

>>575464797
>is /b/ this stupid?
Stupid is what we do best

>>575464913
Goblins are smaller, weaker and generally just pussies. They swarm a lot more as well.

Lotr isn't an allegory for anything. Tolkien said as much himself in one of his letters. In terms of civs lotr is meant to be a folklore of England much like Romulus and Remus in Rome or Aeneus and Troy. Rohirrim are Anglo Saxons with horses the traditional english of a thousand years past, Gondor is meant to be arguably imperial Rome which was the power in Britain for 500 years before the dark ages came. The shire is the innocence of England before it's destruction in the industrial revolution and ww1.

>>575464948
Scottish...

>>575464897
>implying biology is a science
Still would like a citation on your 'other definitions'

>>575464735
On a retard with a bunch of imageboards.

>>575465131
It has a lot of bases on Christianity homie.

>>575465171
Damn, really? I always get those confused. English isnt my native language

>>575464579
>Dwarves were Jews
Short
Hairy
Big nose
Big beard
Dig to hell for the last shekel

I cant find anything wrong with this assertion

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Tolkien never mentioned female orcs, but in The Silmarillion he wrote that "the Orcs had life and multiplied after the manner of the Children of Ilúvatar;" and that the wise [Elves] of Eressëa believed that Melkor had created them before the First Age by breeding Elves he had captured and corrupted, by means of torture and mutilation. In The Lord of the Rings, Treebeard tells Merry and Pippin that Orcs were mere attempts by Morgoth to copy the Elves, which would seem to contradict the account in The Silmarillion, but then J.R.R. Tolkien mentioned on several occasions that none of his characters were omniscient. Therefore, Treebeard's account of the creation of the orcs might have simply been his understanding of it, or he might have been right about it and the ancient Elves of Eressëa might have been wrong.

>>575461637

It's not really discussed other than very dark abuse of the Elves during capititvity over the centuries in the first age of Middle-earth which resulted in them losing their immortality, bred like rats, had become mockeries of their former selves and served Morgoth as Orcs. The first Dark Lord regarded them as a work of art but was not his only corruption of the early world of Tolkien obviously, Sauron being his best effort, corrupting a Gandalf-tier being.

>>575461637
Orcs are savage elves

>>575461637
Enough of these wild assumptions, im just going to email Stephen Colbert for the answer

>>575465235
>science =/= science

This thread is officially pointless. Bye.

>>575464579
Turks, at least they look and probably smell alike

>>575466326
Kek. Arguing science about fantasy fiction

>>575464650
You get a jew.

>>575462370
/thread

>>575466394

I know Turks, Mongols, Asians considered Orcs. Problem is orcs were originally Elves.

Am i missing something here?

>>575463801
I knew all that and I work out and have a gf
>checkmate

>>575465235
Doolittle, W. F. 1999. Phylogenetic classification and the universal tree. Science 284:2124-2128.
>From comparative analyses of the nucleotide sequences of genes encoding ribosomal RNAs and several proteins, molecular phylogeneticists have constructed a "universal tree of life," taking it as the basis for a "natural" hierarchical classification of all living things.

tl;dr
Species defined by biomolecules rather than a one size fits all definition that doesn't work as a one size fits all (as proven in my other post).

>>575466849

OK, to leave the politics aside... Orcs were made out of elves by Melkor (or as he was called later on: Morgoth). Melkor is somehow like Lucifer, a fallen follower of the one mightiest God, Iluvatar. On middleearth he can be consodered a God like all the other Valar. In the first age of Middleearth he was the boss of Sauron, who again was the mightiest of the Mayar, the "Under-Gods" (Gandalf and Saruman are Mayars, too).

>>575467423
>Species defined by biomolecules
Seems more logical than the other approach which was borderline philosophical. Thanks for the info. Didnt think I would learn something like this in this place, of all the places

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>>575462370

>>575461940
Uruk is black-speech for Orc

Orc porn

>>575467815
No problem. Glad i could teach you a little something about biochemistry and phylogeny.

>>575467951
Doesn't answer my question, but the one below was helpful.
>>575464910

Lots of rape with dark spirits