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>>575146457 Vegans keep saying it kills you, but they are the ones looking sick and as if they have starved themselves. In addition to that: There are supplements they should take. I know, too much meat isn't healthy either, but nobody said I'll have to eat it exclusively. I do what's in my nature as an omnivore and eat everything - it's also fucking delicious. Vegans and vegetarians are also fucking crybabies at restaurants - everyone hates them.
>>575147124 Murder is an act between two equals that is committed in malice. Cows do not have a concept of murder and we do not consider killing cows for sustenance to be murder. >>575147963 If you want guilt free meat, buy a calf, show it a wonderful few years of life living in the best conditions you can provide, then kill the beast in the most humane way possible. Only then will you realize how prohibitively expensive treating animals as humans is.
>>575147571 But we literally do not have to anymore, nothing is going to come and "dethrone" us if we don't eat meat. I am not some fucking wolf that relies on hunting prey to survive, I am not a primitive human, I (we can all) survive just fine without animal products.
>>575147885 >Psychopathy (/saɪˈkɒpəθi/) (also known as, though sometimes distinguished from sociopathy /ˈsoʊsiəˌpæθi/) is traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited or bold behavior.
>>575146457 food in the form of animal flesh is a much more efficient way of nourishing the body than vegtables alone. keep in mine that chimps, one of the smartest animals on the planet, will actively hunt and kill other monkeys for food, while gorillas are strictly vegetarian, and are about as intelligent as your average 3 year old
>>575147816 >Vegans keep saying it kills you There are lots of extremely healthy vegans, it's basically proven to be actually better for you. Just look up vegan body builders, you can be just as, if not more healthy as a vegan,
>No one said i'll have to eat exclusively. The point is I don't think we should be eating it at all, to me I can't see why something has to die just for my pleasure. Like, i'm not even that big of an animal person, I just can't justify murder.
>>575147292 >supplements that sounds expensive >get things from other foods that means to be very carefull with the food
I guess those are not big deals, compared to all the animal suffering. But this suffering has been always in nature, and it will stay doesn´t matter what you do. It´s like pretending to reduce CO2 by banning cars in a world full of vulcanoes.
>>575146457 Evolution on this planet is an endless, tedious battle between organisms slowly adapting to reach superiority over the planet and its inhabitants. Refusing to eat meat is a spit in the face of every organism that existed in the chain that allows you to be the dominant species you are today.
Being a vegan or vegetarian trivializes every caveman that died in the frozen wastes without finding food and every prey animal that was sacrificed to ensure the continuation of a predator species.
You are the sum of millions of years of this savage battle, and to refuse your right as the alpha creature of this planet is not only an insult to every predator that is vying for this position, both those prey species that support their existence.
>>575148080 How is there a difference? We've bypassed so much of what was the "original human" we live in a completely different material society. We are not hunter gatherers and we will not perish if we don't consume animals.
>>575148008 So you don't care about the mass slaughter and terrible treatment of animals?
You're literally built for it. All negative effects are from processed meat (something brainwashing vegans tend to skip) If you hunt you're doing the ecosystem a favour (depending where you are and what you hunt)
I'm against shitty conditions for animals because I don't see the point causing that much pain to save someone a few credits but meat is great and always will be.
>>575146457 You literally kill millions of organisms every day of your life.
You, your, home, and everything you own is either made of or covered in dead things. meat byproducts are everywhere and in everything, from chewing gum to your chair. We kill things to simply exist. It's inevitable.
Poaching, animal cruelty and sport killing can all be things that are reasonable to fight against, but if you are eating the animal it's life has not got to waist.
>>575148810 >given a chance a cow would eat the shit out of you If a cow had the mental facilities this the given chance similar to op, she would have the same dilemma about wether eating humans is right or wrong, and would argue with an other cow.
If we didn't kill them they'd never ahve been alive in the first place fag.
I don't fucking know about Americunt farming but here in the UK we have plenty of local butchers and shit that love animals and give the animals the best lives that they can and if they didn't do this shit the animals would never have been alive.
McDonalds beef and shit is probablygiven shit living conditions, just don;t eat any hyper-corporate shit.
>>575147124 Hey mate. I had that thoughts too. Went vegan for half a year. Then I realized how many animals are killed in vegtetable farming, all those squirrels and stuff. It doesn't really matter. Just enjoy your life man. Everything else is stupid.
I raise my own cattle and pigs and hunt deer for meat. My cows are grass fed and the pigs eat damn well too. No hormones or artificial bullshit here. My animals live a better life than they would have otherwise. Deer overpopulate the area I'm in due to no natural predators. No bad feels here about meat eating. We're omnivores and need a mix of plants and animals to be healthy. Just don't get your meat from a supermarket or other mass-produce shithole.
>>575147292 Ok fine, supplements. Complete proteins can only be found in meat however, not other foods, you'd have to consume severel plants to form the needed aminos for your body, now you run into issues with water displacement for soils and such. There's always a down side. Supplements are fine and all, but it's a slippery slope, say everyone is forced into supplements and meat production vanishes because "we can do it with tech now" then one day we hit a financial crash and all these supplements dry up. Then there's no meat as well. We are omnivorous, we thrived off this. The nutrition from our omnivorous diet has allowed our species to develope advanced brain function allowing us to become apex predators, top of the food chain.
>>575148316 >Cows do not have a concept of murder So therefore we can commit mass murder just because they don't know about it? Should we start eating people who go brain dead then? Or murder mentally handicapped kids because they don't know any better?
>>575148316 >kill the beast in the most humane way possible There is no such thing as humane killing when there is no reason. That cow wouldn't have to die.
>>575148341 It's only efficient because it's fucking cheap and everywhere. We don't HAVE to use animals to survive, I don't know how many times I have to repeat this.
>>575148415 An industry can only survive if it's products are in demand. Remove the demand, destroys the industry.
>>575148479 Except our diet can still be changed. We're at the point now where we don't face starvation if we don't eat meat.
>>575148563 >Tastes good Implying that matters, killing something for your own pleasure isn't justified. >proteins and vitamins Which you can get elsewhere. >varied meal is healthy Again, we can get suitable nutrients elsewhere.
>>575148808 >that sounds expensive That's a market problem, not a problem with Veganism.
>But this suffering has always been in nature. So therefore we should take no steps to reduce when are literally the most advanced we have ever been?
>>575148810 >>575148872 >>575148907 We don't need to do this anymore. We are not hunter gatherers. No other animal kills on the same industrial scale with the same amount of prolonged cruelty that we do. You're not a fucking alpha because you bought a steak,
>>575148996 You're implying extinction is worse than living a life of captivity for the needs of another organism. Also, i'd never support leaving the animals we previously incarcerated just to die out.
>>575150434 >seafood I approve of your diet, personally I haven't had red meat in a couple of months now, I tend to eat a lot of seafood, mostly crab,shrimp, fresh fish, and spiny crayfish(pacific lobster). it'll be trout season soon and I plan to go fishing.
>>575149147 >we dont need to build toilets to shit but we still do it. why? because we want and can. That doesn't require murdering anything.
>>575149187 >You're literally built for it. I'm not talking about negative effects of meat. I'm talking about the fact that we don't HAVE to murder things anymore, all the alternatives are right there.
>>575149275 Killing germs with fairy liquid is not the same thing as mass industrialised slaughter of animals.
>Chop off the bad parts like with your fruit or vegetables >cook it taste the deliciousness >??????? >profit
seriously now, your body is desinged to eat that shit. human race didn't start eating animals out of malevolence or need for gourme tastes. It's healhy for you. if you want to tkae pills of concetrated proteins and other meat nutrition do so in the knowledge those pills are made somehow, and no dirt or plants are involved in the process.
>>575151531 They have no nervous system and any capability to suffer or feel pain. Pain is strongly related to movement, thus avoidance. Plants have no means to avoid. Pain would serve them in no ways. Here you go.
>>575146457 Humans are omnivores, back at the dawn of man we were scavengers back in Africa. Most of us made due with what we had. Like bone marrow and wild flowers. So we couldn't afford to be picky then. Now with the recession, meat is a valuable source for protein, and lots of cow, and chicken is good for developing families in the ghetto. I know from experience, my mother could feed my whole family for up to three days with a crock-pot and 14 dollars for meat and mirepoix. I was poor then, and I'm poor now, so each morning I make a simple meal, containing everything I need to survive at my minimum wage job. I can't choose not to eat meat OP because if I did I would fucking starve, and for what? A couple of vegetarians/vegans or whatever the fuck you're calling yourselves nowadays, aren't going to stop animal farming. So why fucking bother? There is always going to be a supply and demand for delicious meat so just accept it and buy yourself a turkey leg or some shit.
>>575146457 OP, just by reading your postst I can confirm that you've gone totally out of your mind. Please consider to become normal again. Meat is healthy and it tastes good. Have you ever sat by a chicken and took a good look at it? I have. These animals are made to eat, they can't do anything except procreating and being an easy pray. Get real OP, becoming a vegan will result in you becoming a vegetable because it isn't healthy and against all laws of nature.
Because humans are the stronger animal! It's natural to eat other animals just like the lion eats the zebra! We are just technologically more advanced which gives us even more right to rule animals... If you want to eat plants.. do it but don't fucking preach about it.. you guys are worse then any fucking religion
>>575146457 >It's legal so there's no repercussion. >Morality is a baseless rationalization of biologically ingrained imperatives which ensure cooperation and survival. >The reason we have cattle to slaughter in the firs place is because we bred them with that purpose in mind
>>575151025 >So therefore we can commit mass murder just because they don't know about it? Should we start eating people who go brain dead then? Or murder mentally handicapped kids because they don't know any better? I'm pretty sure I defined murder at the beginning of my post so I found it weird that you continue to use that word like it means something to me. Yes we should eat brain dead people, continue the circle of life and whatnot. Why stop at kids? There are such things as mentally handicapped adults, why not eat them too? >There is no such thing as humane killing when there is no reason. That cow wouldn't have to die. So you are saying that if I were to engineer a gene into a cow that, once presented with a trigger chemical, would shut down the brain slowly over the period of 8 hours after first putting the cow to sleep it would not be humane? I find that hard to believe.
>>575146457 the bacteria and amino acids we digest from meat products aid the immune system from the same bacteria that is airborne from the waste produced from the same animals. In the long run eat all veggies, cold autumn wind brings bacteria in from the north, that bacteria originated from the scent and odors of animal waste, this bacteria now makes you sick and you die from it due to only eating veggies.
But thats fine I guess, if this is what you believe campaign for it instead of whining about it on 4chan, you might make a difference someday if you really try.
I think that just by living we're all sort of murderers, since 2003 over 140,000 other innocent human beings have been slaughtered in wars we were involved in, and thats just civilians, if you view the soldiers as innocents too, which could be argued, the figures even higher, we kill for resources like oil from other countries and then waste in on stupid shit like diving around to stupid shit and making plastic, it's all fucked.
I, for example, cannot digest (most) animal protein properly. Just not built for it. Fish, however, is fine, so I stick to that and everything else nature provides.
Some people NEED red meat, or their body breaks down.
Really? Follow your biology's needs.
HOWEVER: emotions have nothing to do with it. Science: Nothing is lost, nothing is created, all is transformed. You wanna live? Eat. You eat? You are taking resources away from someone else to produce something. Chances being, offsprings.
I will give you a reason for eating: Evolution & survival.
WHAT you eat, is up to what your body can take.
Emotions got nothing to do with it. Eat if you wanna live.
>>575151025 >Implying cows have the mental capacity to understand morals.
Cows don't have morals nor do they understand what morals are. If however you gave a Cow a "Theory of Mind" then your argument about "murder" would be correct. However, cows do not have this so this eliminates our Morales applying to them. Morales only come into play with human-human interaction because no other animal has the an equal mental capacity.
It's not about whether or not we need to kill them it's more then that. Biggest factors is the economy. Not everyone can afford a diet without meat especially in developing countries
It generates jobs, it is good for you and since humans are omnivores we get a lot of essential nutrients from meat. If you feel bad for the animal, don't. Any animal unless trained is not going to be anything but a mindless ball of instincts and would kill you in a second not even realizing it if they could, nor would they care. It's the world bud, get over it,
Animals are proven to be between 30-90% pure deliciousness.
Plus, it's how we naturally evolve. Would you rather they die in the slowest and most painful way possible (age and/or starvation when the farmers can't afford to feed them), or by becoming a delicious meal for dozens of people, becoming part of your body and your adventures.
I stopped eating meat at 19 im 20 now so it hasn't been very long. i just couldn't stand the thought of living beings being treated like nothing more then a not yet dead piece of food. And to be honest i would eat meat if i were to go live with a tribe of some sort in the outscirts of afrika or asia for a while and that would be their way of life because the slaughtered animal woul've at least had a life in the wild but not like this, not if animals are treated as mass products, not if i get a disease wich cant be cured because i got resistant to the medication purely because it was thrown in the animals food. Humanities lifestyle of constant consuming is the cancer wich is slowly killing the planet and i wont be a part of it.
>>575150582 Your argument is weak. Because we can't save everything, therefore we should try and save nothing?
>>575150639 >We can't change it because we've never changed it before. Do you guys seriously convince yourself this crap?
>>575150662 But it is charred flesh. Meat is just mangled corpse.
>>575150721 So you admit he does something worse and yet you still defend it. And you call me retarded.
>>575150780 >We're omnivores and need a mix of plants and animals to be healthy. Just don't get your meat from a supermarket or other mass-produce shithole. You're still murdering something. There is no such thing as ethical slaughter.
>>575150881 Wow that really went into theoretical fast..
>Allowing us to become apex predators Okay great, we can stop now then since there is literally nothing that could harm us on any considerable scale.
>>575150914 >But these animals wouldn't even exist if we didn't raise and slaughter them. Already answered this. You honestly think i'd ever support an approach that just meant abandoning previously incarcerated creatures to extinction?
>>575151169 >>575151531 >>575152039 This is a really stupid argument and I legitimately do not know if you're joking or not. Compare a fucking wheat crop to a slaughterhouse, that's the fucking difference.
>>575151810 You're not a hunter gatherer. You don't need meat to survive anymore, the alternative exist.
>>575151945 You're issue is with linguistics. Killing then, it's still killing something.
Then why eat it? Not a vegetarian myself, but why bother if you don't feel good about it? Nobody is forcing you (and if so, grow some balls).
Also; start thinking in grey scales, not only black and white. You could eat meat only a couple of days of the week, without going full veggie. You can have the bonus of not feeling (as much) guilt, as well as not having to force people to cook a special meal for you if you're over for dinner and having to explain yourself over and over.
>>575153258 >Not everyone can afford a diet without meat especially in developing countries Absolutely right. But that's not a problem of veganism, that's a social problem regarding distribution of wealth.
Again, i'm not against eating meat on the basis on survival. But when we don't need to (like none of us here do) there is no justification.
>>575153971 Oh please are you actually telling me you praise your little animal friends as if they are human. How retarded are you. Look Cows are brain dead creatures that walk the earth eat grass and procreate. They have no other purpose in life. They hardly have the mental capacity to think. We as humans are simply eating what we need. Our bodies run off of meat. Get over it furfag
>>575154847 Distribution of wealth? what? developing countries aren't the way they are because of wealth distribution. It's because they haven't made a stable industrial economy in their country. Banning meat production would seriously hurt these countries. It has nothing to do with wealth distribution in the regards you are thinking of
I evolved as an omnivore. My teeth and digestive system reflect that result of millions of years of evolution.
I need no sanction to be what the universe manifested me as. I contemplate my chickens, who also are designed omnivores. Ever see a hen find a nest of babby rats? They flip 'em in the air then swallow them. Nature is life perpetually recycling life. All is transient, and due to entropy all life dies one way or another. Death makes room for and feeds more life. My not eating animal life will not change the death rate because life implies death.
I shall therefore eat what I will. I don't care what OP eats or does not eat. Nature will eventually recycle us both eternally.
>>575154182 More land is polluted by the use of chemicals for the growing of crops than the raising of livestock. Livestock more often than not have a better standard of life before being slaughtered. Plants are living too; just because they don't cry out in pain does not mean they are totally without sensation.
>>575154847 Its natural to eat meat. It is in our nature. Would a wild animal care if it tore you to shreds and ate you? No. Why should you care if you do the same to animals within reason? If you eat meat as a meal everyday go ahead but if you eat excessive amounts of steak everyday then you're an asshole.
>>575155959 You said that VERY autistically (I can smell your fedora from here) but you're right. Everything is recycled, the dead chicken you shit out after you ate it doesn't vanish, it's a new start for something somewhere.
>>575156330 They are grazing animals. A cat is a hunter. A cat will attempt to go out of its house and explore. The cow will sit there with full content. The cat will go out and find food to eat. The cow will sit there and eat whats around it.
>>575154859 >Insert definition of psychopath. If you don't already have the empathy to understand that killing for no reason is wrong, then there's nothing I can do. I'm talking to people who have functional mirror neurones, not sick people.
>>575154917 No neuro cortex in plants, the only study that 'proves' they feel pain is the electrical signals that you can detected when you 'kill' a plant.
>inb4 "b-but it's all electrical signals!"
>>575154994 The meat industry is far from ethical. Even most meat eaters know this now.
>>575155085 So because they're not smart means we can kill them? Again, that's fucked.
Our bodies don't have to run on meat, we have every alternative in place.
>>575155713 Sure, I agree. But that's still a separate issue. That's not an argument against veganism, it's an argument against how we've structured the world economy.
>>575155954 >Useful You seriously basing another creature on its ability to strengthen human society?
>>575156064 You literally brought up a theoretical situation in which the economy collapses. I have no fucking clue what happens when the economy collapses, but the main priority probably isn't making sure we keep the slaughter of animals going. Again, that is an economic problem not a problem regarding the meat industry specifically.
People live extremely healthy lives as vegans getting the nutrients from alternatives to meat. They are not dropping dead left and right from protein deficiency.
>>575156821 Cows are social, they have social interactions. They also are curious to explore new things and like to chase other animals. They also like to watch cows and other animals fighting. They are far from mindless. Yeah they graze and laze around a lot, because plants are not as ready of a source of energy as meat is.
>>575157053 This is my own decision based on something terrible in which not only is there is actual evidence to support it's existence, we are actively contributing to it. My decision to stop isn't theological by any means.
>the SS You just went full fucking retarded. Why is everything a comparison to Nazism now?
>Inb4 "Hitler was a vegetarian"
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