USA today is capitalism in it's final stage.
The USA is a completely desolidarized society. The rich have shut themselves off in special neighborhoods with security guards and gates with access codes, they have their own universities, hospitals, schools, kindergartens.
The middle class got completely dissolved in the last crisis, you pretty much need two jobs to support a decent life.. after the third eight hours job you at least don't need a flat anymore which saves a lot of money, which is neat.
The lower third is completely in the shit, they are either homeless or living in neighborhoods where the police don't have the courage to show up in anymore.
The only sociopolitical measurement is to lock you away.
In the USA more people are incarnated in prison per 100 000 persons than in any other country on earth. More than in china and in north korea.
Which again is neat cause you an privatize prisons and make real big money this way.
But despite so many people being in prison, the main cause of death for a young american is being murdered. Every year over 30'000 americans die being shot on the open street. That's over eighty every day. 80 deaths a day, in other countries like Iraq that is called civil war.
It's also civil war in the USA, capitalism in it's final stage is civil war, but the poor aren't fighting the rich, but the poor are shooting each other to death, on top of that with weapons the rich sold them. Kinda like we do with africa too.
This is capitalism. Divide and conquer.
95% of all media in the USA is in the hand fo 5 really rich families, they have perfected the way of division and fucked merritards minds so much, they even reject politicians who actually want to give them healthcare insurance.
The rest of europe is driving straight towards the same cliff, the USA already went over.
You forgot 9 out of 10 congressional elections are and the presidential election are decided by money. In America, wealth is power, not only in the private domain, but in government as well.
People with little wealth are forced to sell themselves to those with higher amounts of wealth. This is known as employment. The employers use the labor of the worker to create products or services. They then sell these products, pay the employee a wage, and pocket the rest of the wealth created by the employee as profit.
The United States, with 5% of the world's population houses 25% of the world's prisoners. The job of police officers, Law Enforcement, is to enforce the law. As I covered earlier, the rich write the laws. The police is an institution that acts as a mercenary apparatus for state power. They protect the rich from the poor.
For example, Adam Smith said “Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.” Jame Madison, father of the constitution put it a different way: "Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority."
our technological and agricultural state, the abundance of resource and creation at our disposal, readily allows for a largely capitalist society, given certain municipal provisions and scaling taxation to cover these provisions, with the spirit of capitalism embodied by those who wish to have more than their mean way of life (have a better house, better car, better _stuff_ that must be traded for more _money_)
but there is no reason for poverty, starvation, or homelessness in our world
I don't know how we get from where we are to "there", or even if this is the right "there", but it looks like a decent goal to me
>The rich have shut themselves off in special neighborhoods with security guards and gates with access codes, they have their own universities, hospitals, schools, kindergartens.
this is literally the same in EVERY type of government. Guess where the politicians and business owners live at in a communist/socialist government? At least the capitalists straight up tell you that "nigga u poor pls go" instead of "we are all the same it just happens to be that i have extra legal rights and live in a 700k house when the average person can't afford a 50k house"
>The middle class got completely dissolved in the last crisis, you pretty much need two jobs to support a decent life.. after the third eight hours job you at least don't need a flat anymore which saves a lot of money, which is neat.
Yeah, if you were a psychology major or someone who wasn't smart with money. I have two parents who barely can speak English. Guess what they did when the market crashed in 08? They walked it off and decided to WORK, not complain. Although they aren't rich, they are living in comfort right now. They are also over 60, so if your 18 year old ass can't start all over and find a new way like my parents then you should go and live in a communist nation to get spoonfed by the elite.
if you think the sweeds thrive cos of socialism u are a retard.. it's cos of socialism their going down the gutter pretty soon that and sandnigger immigration, sweeden now the rape capital of the world hahahaha
Nope, bro. What do you say can be applied to almost every decade since war.
Despite I, as european, hate certain aspects of the U.S. arrogance (like the NSA in the front), it still kick ass, and its economy is getting better.
United States have changed in the last 50 years, but it STILL somewhat was able to keep its power and opportunities. It was good in a certain way. Now it is different - but still good. Differently. But it is working.
And rest of the world has still the same troubles.. as before.
In the other words - times have changed. But the greater picture still did not.
You do realize that you are basically describing socialism, right?
Do you know why there is poverty, starvation, and homelessness in our world?
It's all because 95% of them were lazy fucks or socially retarded people who couldn't pick up a 50k chance if it was handed to them. I do admit that some (like mentally/physically ill people) cannot help it. But excluding these extraneous situations, why do you expect a guy who didn't do work in school or in the work field get the same benefits as a dude who spent 8 hours a day for 4-12 years studying for a college degree that matters? Or over a guy who went into the work force after high school and worked his way up?
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” John Steinbeck
what I'm saying is that the only thing that should be provided universally, unconditionally, is the basic means of survival and social access; our resources do in fact allow for that
but for anything, and I mean anything more, you would still have to bust your ass in school and getting a real job
and if the economy takes a turn or your life fucks up somehow? you can still fall back on that basic income and make ends meet till you work something else out
pure socialism robs people of the right to work hard and achieve, and I don't condone that
these good sides don't have to be mutually exclusive is what I'm saying
just look at how much feminists care about equality and fairness, and the power they have
or the fact that there are even laws to protect teenagers from having sex with someone that is a bit older and regretting it later which may hurt their morale, because our society is so perfect we dont know what to improve
or the fact that the government is socialist because people actually votes for solidarity
all the anti racism and the tolerance with homosexuals etc
how is that desolidarized or not empathic?
Interesting how the guy spewing racism and calling others retards doesn't know the difference between "their" and "they're".
I warn you, young americans. By your boredom, you have become distrustfull of your system and your ways - that is natural and OK. There has to be a control voice, allways. American politics were allways like the flame - great tool, but a bad master, if left too free.
But do not, in your hate, look blindly to other systems and things you do not understand as if they would solve your problems.
Greater, more advanced system can be only deserved and naturally achieved - not imposed. Try to be a better individuals. Better individuals will form a better society, and better society will have better politics.
In that order - not the other way around.
True capitalism is crony capitalism. Crony capitalism is the practical application of capitalist theory. State power and private power evolved together synergistically. They are inseparable.
Says the /b/tard living with his parents.
>this is literally the same in EVERY type of government.
Does not make it ok. In America, so we are taught, everyone should be afforded the same opportunity.
& yeah some of the middle class got destroyed and some didn't, but it's not an either or argument but rather one of trends and direction. Where are we headed? Is the economy getting better or worse? For whom? Are the most people benefiting? Those are the questions that need addressing.
...continued: Real capitalists- the wealthy, the corporations, do not have a problem with Crony Capitalism. In fact they love it.
"Big capital will support tax-lowering measures, of course, but it does not need to piss and moan about taxes with the tedious relentlessness of the libertarian. Big capital, with its ranks of accountant-Houdinis, just gets on with not paying it. And why hate a state that pays so well? Big capital is big, after all, not only because of the generous contracts its state obligingly hands it, but because of the gun-ships with which its state opens up markets for it.
Libertarianism, by contrast, is a theory of those who find it hard to avoid their taxes, who are too small, incompetent or insufficiently connected to win Iraq-reconstruction contracts, or otherwise chow at the state trough. In its maundering about a mythical ideal-type capitalism, libertarianism betrays its fear of actually existing capitalism, at which it cannot quite succeed. It is a philosophy of capitalist inadequacy."
That's not true. There hasn't been a wage increase since the 60's or 70's eventhough production has increased at least 3or 4 orders of magnitude. Our economy 'kicks ass' on paper, but it's done nothing for its citizenry. We have been degenerating from a once promising economy to scrapping around for work. & no, it does not have to be this way.
Socialism and capitalism work hand in hand. Capitalism looks out for companies and socialism looks out for citizens.
It's sad knowing that people on /b/ know better than politicians.
>USA today is capitalism in it's final stage.
Teleological accounts of history are inherently flawed. Society doesn't evolve in a particular direction it adapts to stimuli and moves according to the will of those who govern and to a lesser degree those who are governed.
The United States is a capitalist society where cronyism between the government and lobbyists has created a set of laws that suppress the lower and middle class and destroy free market competition within the capitalist economy. The end result is that the wealth of the nation is concentrated into fewer and fewer hands as the largest corporations buy everyone out.
Its a symptom of corruption not an inherent flaw in capitalism.
>But despite so many people being in prison, the main cause of death for a young american is being murdered.
You were doing well till you spouted this inane shit. The violent crime rate in England is actually about 30% higher than it is in the United States. In the inner city ghettos crime and murder are a significant factor, in the rest of the country not so much. Next time you give this spiel cut this bit out.
>they even reject politicians who actually want to give them healthcare insurance.
Again you're spouting your mouth off about shit you know nothing about. Obamacare doesn't give us anything, it forces us to buy insurance, and puts more regulations on the insurance industry; but it does nothing to drive down healthcare costs. Its just another bureaucracy.
>The rest of europe is driving straight towards the same cliff, the USA already went over.
Seems that way, just don't focus all your wrath on the mean nasty corporations. You can't trust the government either.
only you responded, i guess the bait was too obvious kek
what i actually meant is that our society is not only desolidarized
people cares about others sometimes, or "cares" if trained to (sad but thats how it is for most, they show empathy when they know they are expected to, but they even convince themselves so in a way they are nice), but they are trained to care about the wrong things
racism, women or homosexual rights ... are virtually not a problem realistically yet the lobbies are so powerful, neither is teenager sex and there are laws agaisnt it, meanwhile many people literally live miserably, and the middle class are taken away half their waking time by shitty stupid jobs
>Seems that way, just don't focus all your wrath on the mean nasty corporations. You can't trust the government either.
Yeah stop picking on the corporations guys they are our friends! It's the governments fault.
>There are a great many things inherently wrong with money. the first is that it's not even real.
Property is real, money is ultimately just an abstract means of representing property so it can be used as a common medium of exchange.
The problem with society isn't money its something more fundamental, its power.
In a capitalist society money is power and power concentrated into the hands of the elite allows them to control the rest of the society.
In a communist society (a real one, not a slave plantation like China) political power is concentrated into the hands of the party elite and it allows them to control the rest of society.
Concentration of power into the hands of the few is the problem, not the form that power takes.
>Yeah stop picking on the corporations guys they are our friends! It's the governments fault.
My post was about how in the United States collusion between the wealthy elite of society and the political elite of the government had created a corrupt system that kept the common man down.
If you think you can trust corporations OR the government then you're a fucking idiot.
Powerful men do not have your best interests at mind.
US and EU will never collapse. They should've long ago, but they're globalistic these days.
Places like Russia are still imperialistic. Power is centralized and once the head expires, every connected branch comes down like a house of cards. In "the west", i.e. 80% of Earth at this point, power is decentralized. Defunct agencies are taken out of the equation on a conveyor belt and civil discontent keeps society amorphous.
It's going to change for sure, but it'll stick around and bounce back up with part of this disheveled mesh of institutions swapped out for replacements.
China is basically a plantation at this point.
The government sells the slave labor of its people to western corporations and then uses the profits to build up their country and line their own pockets. The Chinese don't have freedom of speech, or religion, they have no meaningful property rights, and their needs are largely taken care of by their masters.....in other words they're slaves.
China is the most successful plantation in the history of the world. Its used western greed to fuel its growth as our own corporations have built up a communist dictatorship because abusing their people and poisoning their environment allowed them to save money by not having to pay a western laborer an honest wage.
And western governments let our corporations do this; because in the end they work for the elite, not the working class.
What you say is true. Money facilitates power and in this way we are enslaved.
If money were gone, our enslavement would be much less poignant however, and power and influence would decrease tremendously especially since production would fall into the hands of the producer spreading power over a greater playing field.
what a load of bullshit
it's not our fault chinese workers accept their shitty conditions.
we have to make a profit, you know to feed idiots like you
plus there is a good amount of diplomatic pressure on the chinese
what do you want us to do ? free them by invasion ??
>you at least don't need a flat anymore
>Britfag acting like he knows what the fuck is happening in the US.
Here's a tip britbong: You're in a worse state than the amerifats, you're importing muslims who are instituting shariah law, you're losing your most brilliant scientists to the US and Sweden, and you've got cameras on every corner and people are trying to make kitchen knives illegal.
If you want to panic about something, I suggest you look around yourself.
We are currently involved in three armed conflicts with 1000 military bases aroun the world. It is economic colonialism. The military is used to open markets for our corporations.
Go try living in some third world slav shithole and then come back and tell me how bad is living in the usa, faggot.
Meh, don't care. Headed East.
>The military is used to open markets for our corporations.
>Implying American jurisdiction is necessary for American businesses to be active on foreign markets
>Implying everyone and their mother doesn't invite foreign currency with open arms to inflate their exchange rate
>but as populations grows more and more educated, they will have to stop
Why would they have to stop? Because people will tell them to?
Frankly people only care about shit as long as it doesnt affect their standard of living. The second they cant buy a big screen tv for $150 anymore or they have to pay a few more cents at the pump is the second they call for the US to nuke every other country.
Fuck you, Commie. Communism will never win.
i haven't been talking about europe at all whatsoever. what is your point, exactly? better to travel through america or mexico to get a feel of what poverty and oppression can do to a society. been thorough half of south america too.
Has anyone ever told you that you look like enrique iglesias? Of course not you're much cuter.
Capitalism is the absence of economic rules. How, then, is "Capitalism in its final stage" if the system in question is full of economic rules?
Don't believe me? Look at what it takes to start a business in the most mundane of industries. Then look at what it takes to start a business in something more regulated like, well, agriculture, for instance.
Check out tax rates. Simulate a startup and run the numbers yourself. It's plane to see if you care to see it. If you have any talent with mathematics at all, and if you have 20 minutes to sit down and do some actual work then you can uncover the truth.
Or, I suppose you can just regurgitate bullshit other people have spewed, while simultaneously getting on a horse so high you can't see the crowd you walk through.
Furthermore, by stifling the individual's right to self production you will only cause humanity's progress to stall, at a time when that is infinitely worse than at any other point in recorded history.
We're spewing greenhouse gases and other shit into the atmosphere, China and India mostly but also the USA and Europe. If we keep going at capitalist rates we'll be full nuclear and beyond coal/oil in 50 years.
If we stall, however, we could be stuck burning coal and oil to exhaustion, then resorting to methane, or other hydrocarbons.
Or even worse, we could enter another dark age, and have to go through all of this again in 800 years.. only with centuries of built up detritus from the leftovers of a former golden age.
Oh, I get it: Capatilism (thought of 300 years ago or so or whatever) is good.
We don't practice capatilism.
Don't hate capitalism because if it's old, then it's sacred?
I'll go read the bible then. Maybe I'll get to crucify Jesus.
/pol/ sides with the pieces of shit that are responsible for the way they are.
they are actually lauding the coming age where machines take everything over and 2/3 of population are forcibly homeless and or jailed.
no better than kikes, /pol/ is a fucking joke.
>People believe capitalism will save us from problems created by capitalism
>But despite so many people being in prison, the main cause of death for a young american is being murdered.
bullshit its heart disease and car accidents
I think what you are trying to say is: mankind is inherently self-destructive and we're on the brink, in which case I'd agree, but I wouldn't judge this to be uniquely American
none of that will happen. more oil and gas reserves will be discovered.coal and methane are used in the transition phase to green energy.
we deal with the ecological damage afterwards with futuristic terraforming technology.
>you being hysterical
True that more oil an gas reserves will be discovered, but discovery has peaked and it is on a downward trend. We have to bring the equivalent of a new Saudi Arabia online every 3 years to keep up with declining output in existing oil fields.
The "rules" you bitch about are created by former businessmen too. They are there to protect BIG business from the threat of the startup.
Capitalism isn't the problem, it's the poisonous effect of money in politics that's the problem.
Or, restrict the government's power so that it can't shut down small agricultural businesses, stop giving farmers subsidies, and not "regulating" agriculture to favor large corporations like Monsanto, dumbass.
You're on some retarded shit OP. You've crafted all this semantics bait and I'm not biting.
The US is bogged down with problems a bit but if we nuke the bog then we'll have loads of nice new smooth glass acreage to build on. Good thing is the bog is already set up to be nuked. Figuratively of course.
capitalism is the best working system out there.
When we first discovered oil there were 2 trillion barrels in the ground. We've burned 1 trillion barrels since then. It took nature 400 million years to create that oil. Because it eventually becomes unprofitable to do so, we will not be able to recover 100% of the oil in the ground. 54 out of 65 of the planet's major oil producing countries have past their peaks in oil production. It takes 10 calories of hydrocarbon energy to produce 1 calorie of food in our industrialized food system.
This is not irrational fear. It is mathematical analysis.
>Capitalism isn't the problem, it's the poisonous effect of money in politics that's the problem.
The real problem can only be symbolized by money in politics, the real world is a domestically conflicted nation that necessitates militant corporate-economic policy.
People think they can cure a disease by curing a symptom.
I am. No technology will allow us to achieve infinite growth, which is what the current system is designed for. I don't think you are factoring in the scale of the predicament. I encourage you to read Tom Murphy's blog Do the Math.
Our economy is based on growth. Growing GDP= good economy. "Negative growth", as an economist would call is, = bad. The growth of the physical economy requires natural resource inputs in the form of raw materials and energy. For example, energy consumption has grown at a steady average of 2.9% since about 1650 or so. This is not sustainable, even though our economic model acts as if this can continue indefinitely. This growth will probably end in our lifetimes.
So far we have mostly used fossil fuels to fund this growth in energy. Our infrastructure was built on oil that got 100:1 EROEI. Fueling our economy with something like Photovoltaics that get 3% of that EROEI is no easy task. EROEI is only one aspect of whether or not alternatives will ever be economically feasible. We also have to worry about energy storage, transmission, transportability, etc...
Its great to find someone else out in the wild who understands our energy situation.
OP is spot on with his statement.
"Earth will never run out of copper because humans will create it out of other elements"
- what economist actually believe
lel. he didnt say anything about socialism.
Infinite growth on a finite planet is physically impossible. But, infinite growth is exactly what a capitalist economy requires to keep working.
The economy must grow so that loans can be repaid with interest. If the economy doesn't grow, there is no where for the interest to come from.
Oildrum is closed down, but I used to browse.
Are any of you guys hopeful these problems will start to be seriously dealt with in our lifetime?
I could see it go either way right now. There are a lot of people in this coming generation and probably the next one who seriously want something done to ensure long term stability of a first world lifestyle. But on the other hand, people are typically selfish and the wealthiest and most powerful tend to be some of the most selfish.
What's with this two job nonsense. I didn't even finish highschool and I'm making 18$/hr cleaning restaurant grease and driving a truck.
Why the hell would an adult work for anything less than 12$. Even at 19 though I made minimum wage which laid my rent and put me through nightschool to get my Gas license. Which I didn't even use.
Point is people are bad with money.
Well, I've got to to get off 4chan and go do homework.
Take it easy /b/ro
You should become an economist :^)