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I am a pantheist/animist.
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The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.

You are currently reading a thread in /b/ - Random

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I am a pantheist/animist.
God is everything.

Prove to me that an infinite omnipresent entity doesn't exist.
>>
>>561976298
The Patton Space Heater is a lovely lightweight heater that produces a great deal of heat. There are two knobs on the front. One is a thermostat and the other has modes of one and two. Mode one makes it hot. Mode two makes it fire-hot! I usually turn it on a just keep the thermostat all the way over to the end. If you leave it on any lesser settings, the space heater will turn on and off intermittently. This may help you to not get too hot but I do not like it. I prefer constant heat until I decide to turn it off.

I have never tested the automatic shut-off if tipped over.

The front of it does get super hot. No one in my household has burned themselves; however. We have used it in the bathroom and it really heats up a small room. It is a quick and hot space heater!
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>>561976298
So why call it God?
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>>561976298
Prove to me that it exists, you are the one with the burden of proof.
>>
Prove to me a gigglethorpe isn't real.
>>
Nah. Proving a negative is a logical impossibility. Burden of proof lies with the claimant.

Faggot.
>>
>>561976298
The fact that the physical laws of this universe resemble some sort of framework or entity, doesn't mean that is the case

As usual, OP is a self-assured idiot.

/thread
>>
>>561976298
prove my penis isnt 2 meters long

Can't?
Okay then, both our arguements are equal and has the exact same probability. Keep believing in your 2 meter cock god.
>>
>>561976980
>has the exact same probability

uwut?
>>
>>561977176
In this limited context, they have the exact same possibility
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>>561977176
I dunno man I guess my 2 meter penis is draining too much blood off my brain :(
>>
>>561976298
Pantheism is just sexed-up atheism, using the word 'God' as a metaphor for the universe.
>>
>>561977815
Actually, if you believe that the god that is everything is also capable of intervention, they are clearly distinct from one another.
>>
>>561977998
It doesn't make much sense to pray to the law of gravity.
>>
>>561977998
The universe's physics would be it's "god"

It dictates the universe in its entirety
>>
>>561976298
Prove to me that it does faggot
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>>561978664
There is not a singular definition for pantheism.
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>>561976607
>>561976635
>>561976706
>>561979012


Spiritual/mystical experiences have occurred in a great number of humans since at least the paleolithic. Religion is the interpretation of this experience passed down as tradition. Since the existence of the spiritual experience brings about changes in the real world, the source of the experience is therefore a real thing.

>>561976894
The macro/microcosmic structure of our universe suggests (but does not prove) a cosmic order to things.

>>561976591
Because it fits the definition. The nature of the entity that connects all existence may be impossible to completely comprehend with human intelligence - but science can give us facts about how our universe works. And maybe in time we will figure out how God works, and how to become Gods ourselves.
>>
>>561978912
>>561976607
>>561976635
>>561976706

lit what i came here to say
>>
>>561976298
>God is everything.
>>
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>>561976298
Because OP you're a one huge faggot.
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>prove it doesn't exist
>prove
>doesn't

2/10 noone is that stupid, 1 point for the effort 1 for the image have a nice day
>>
>>561979792
>Spiritual/mystical experiences have occurred in a great number of humans since at least the paleolithic
What is mental disorders
What is drugs
>The macro/microcosmic structure of our universe suggests (but does not prove) a cosmic order to things
To you. Our minds look for patterns.
>Because it fits the definition. The nature of the entity that connects all existence may be impossible to completely comprehend with human intelligence - but science can give us facts about how our universe works. And maybe in time we will figure out how God works, and how to become Gods ourselves.

...Are you serious?
>>
>>561979792
What lays outside the visible wavelength in the picture is represented with visible wavelengths (*blue* wavy line)
>>
Everything comes from the same place. Stars.

>>561980475
>Our minds look for patterns.
Coincidentally patters exist. What are numbers?

>What is mental disorders What is drugs
There are many aspects of the spiritual experience that can't be so easily dismissed. They can occur powerfully in sane, unlikely people who have never taken drugs. What selective advantage is there in having a brain that is capable of this phenomena?

>...Are you serious?
What is technology?
>>
>>561981961
>Patterns occur in nature. Therefore some sort of intelligence must be behind it.

That's a very weak argument. More of a guess, really.

>There are many aspects of the spiritual experience that can't be so easily dismissed

Like what? And how do you know that they do occur, and the people aren't just lying?
>>
>>561981961
You can't have a spiritual experience to the depth that many people perceive one to be.

You aren't transcending anything, you haven't come into contact with another realm, you're just a meat sack whose brain released a particular set of chemicals, resulting in such.
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>2014
>not worshipping the sun and earth because that's truly the only things that help sustain our lives
all of you are plebs
>>
>>561982629
Carlin?
>>
>>561983112
good comedian, but i didn't get my belief from him
>>
>>561976706
>Proving a negative is a logical impossibility.

i can prove that there is not a full grown horse in my stomach...does that count?
>>
>>561983718
it's just that he said the exact same thing on stage once
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>>561983816
bump
>>
>>561976298
why does anyone need to prove whether it exists or not?
Does the existence of an infinite omnipresent entity actually matter in the question of understanding the world?
Could we actually ever be able to differentiate such an entity from a purely random process?
>>
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>>561982606
>I haven't experienced something others claim to, therefore it must be impossible and they're lying

You're right about chemicals though. But our world is built entirely out of chemicals. Your brain released chemicals to help you write that post. The overwhelming majority of our world cannot be perceived with our sensory organs alone. Our ignorance is vast.

Spiritual behavior might be related with a certain level of cognizance. Elephants conduct funerals for their dead.
>>
>>561984753
pretty much this. it's just a matter of perception, different people look at the same things and yet come to different conclusions.
>>
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>>561984753
A+ post.
But it makes for a fun thread.
>>
>>561984991
>I haven't experienced something others claim to, therefore it must be true
>>
Atheist here

Yeah maybe, you aren't the one of the ones I have a problem with
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>>561985243
how old do you think the universe is?
>>
>>561976298
it can't be proven and can't be denied.
such is the foundation of God

prove to me that someone can be remotely intelligent and aren't an agnostic
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>>561985374
Yeah, pantheism is slightly amusing but also benign compared to religion. No one's going to behead someone or blow themselves up for the law of gravity.
>>
>>561983816
>>561983816
???
>>
>>561984991
There is still no relevance to spirituality in the context you put it in, as some inherent part of the physical present you and I feel now.

Elephants are highly socially developed, and they happen to display a behavior that proves that, what does that have to do with being spiritual?
>>
>>561976298
Robin Williams just committed suicide this morning. Truly there is no god in the universe.
>>
Can't be done. Prove to me that we don't have an invisible sixth digit on our hands that you can't feel or detect with science in any way.
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>>561986330
>cant feel or detect with science

Therein lies your misunderstanding.
>>
>>561983816
?????
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>>561985480
13.798±0.037 billion years
But I just quoted that from Wikipedia. Because cosmology isn't my field of study and I haven't read the literature.

>>561986330
If that finger has no effect on reality, then it is not real.

>>561986164
:( <mfw you're not a troll
>>
>>561986164
since it seems to be a thing today

>Breaking News
>God is dead
>>
>>561987434
so you believe in evolution set in place by a creator then?
>>
>>561987617
No, by the physical laws that dictate the universe.

Look up fractal geometry.
>>
>>561979792
>The macro/microcosmic structure of our universe suggests (but does not prove) a cosmic order to things.

>Because there is order there must be God.

Or the simple fact that without order there would be nothing to exist. Things have adapted to exist in our universe's laws of physics. Whether or not you want to believe it's organized by a celestial entity is beyond my caring, but factually it has nothing to do with it. It simply is how things work, if they didn't, then we wouldn't be here. Just because there is order doesn't mean you need to twist that into a spiritual reasoning. Especially a religious one. A plague on humanity for centuries now that causes nothing but hatred and war.
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>>561983816
anybody? did i just prove a negative?
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>>561976298
Well I can't. You can believe in anything you want spiritually, that doesn't make it exist.

What I can already tell about you is that you have a simple mind. You're an android. You've held onto the comforting belief as a child.

>pantheist

Oh, right, you're one of those new age science and religion nothings. Right, right.
>>
>>561987909
why believe in a god at all? almost everything you have said in your posts can be and have been done without a creator. is it just faith?
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>>561988108
You connected that well m8 good yob

>>561988345
Just an absence of
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>>561987909
shit, i thought you were op. disregard this post if you arent

.>>561988484
>>
>>561988602
>Just an absence of
whats the difference? isn't every negative an absence of?
>>
>>561988484
I'm speaking against the idea. There is obviously no need to believe in god other than a crutch for the insecurities death create.


Or did you just not read bro?
>>
>>561988824
see
>>561988734
>>
>>561988602
or can't i prove that a triangle does not have 4 sides? does that count?
>>
>>561976298
>Be me, 26
>On 4chan, browsing
>Robin is Kill
>no
>>
>>561988602
O sorry
>>
>>561987909
which could have been written by a creator

We can basically write evolutionary algorithms that can by themselves create stuff (usually electronic circuits, robots or programs) suited for one specific problem. The irony is that we very often cannot understand why the endproduct actually works for the specific task.
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>>561976298
1. it is up to the person making the assertion to support their position
2. one cannot prove a negative

this thread is bad and you should feel bad.

there is no god, therefore everything is permissible. it's the entire raison d'etre for /b/ in the first place, dumb shit.

pic unrelated.
>>
>>561989212
dickhead
>>
>>561981961
>Everything comes from the same place.

Perhaps.

>Coincidentally patterns exist. What are numbers?

Man made characters used to describe amounts and time. Not a spiritual pattern. Again, without a pattern there would be no line. It does not make it spiritual.

>There are many aspect of the spiritual experience that can't be so easily dismissed.

Yet. There have been no actual recordings of spiritual experiences. Ever. Not once. Just delusions and made up stories. Dreams and hallucinations. There have never been any. People sometimes feel spooked out when they walk into "haunted" areas and yet it's only a figment of their imagination, or sometimes it can be more scientific and be an electrical field making you feel funny. There are no spiritual experiences, just coincidental experiences that people themselves can't explain and want to claim it as something spiritual because it makes them feel special.
>What is technology?
Man made.
>>
>>561988108
This.

>when a deist sees a puddle of water he thinks god designed it to fit in the depression.
>>
>>561989097
Even if a creator existed, they would still hold no meaning in our reality because, ecidently, this creator has no empirical effect on whatever it is he created. Merely a set of laws.
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>>561981961
Jesus fucking Christ you are retarded. You literally know nothing, lel.
>>
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>>561987617
Not quite.

>>561987909
Yes but I choose to believe that these laws are a component of an infinite sentient entity we are attached to.

>>561988484
>is it just faith?
Yes. In my opinion, faith makes for a more satisfying human experience. When you feel faith internally, and perceive what can only be described as spiritual, it becomes impossible to let rational doubts win.
>>
>>561988798
>>561989052
??
>>
>>561976298
congrats, you are not a pleb
>>
>>561989712
no observable meaning/meaning that matters to us, see >>561984753
>>
>>561976298
Animism is superior
And our totem will soon reveal
>>
>>561990441
What are you even trying to say, my point is parallel to the other anon's
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>>561990234
>not quite
elaborate a little please

> it becomes impossible to let rational doubts win.
so youre saying life is already planned out and there is nothing you can do to change it?
>>
>>561990234
For what reason? It doesn't have any impact on you
>>
>>561991174
Actually, to an extent, he's right.

Everything will play out in a certain way, the limits of which are "chance".

>letting rational doubts win

Can you not handle them?
>>
>>561991656


>>561988798
>>561989052
>>
>>561979792
everything you listed has logical explainations that are not nessicarily god.

you just listed possibilities and assumptions.

We asked for proof you fucking half wit, not your beliefs.
>>
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friendly thread bump
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>>561982606
>you're just a meat sack whose brain released a particular set of chemicals

this meat sack is merely a vessel. that brain activity you see is not the source of my mind. it is the result of my infinite hyperspatial superconsciousness theophanically interacting with the brain. this body is my avatar. your body is my avatar. all of these bodies are my avatars.
>>
>>561976298
That Saturday you spent trying to forget Friday night doesn't mean that the other people involved want to forget... or that they ever could. Welcome to the world of creationism, friend.
>>
>>561991656
so you also believe everything is "part of god's plan"? or am i reading this wrong? i am very tired at the moment
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>>561991947
No no no no you are so off wow

You are conscious solely because of your brain and it being alive.

What facilitates that consciousness is another matter.
>>
>>561990234
> BECOMES IMPOSSIBLE TO LET RATIONAL DOUBTS WIN
> IS A GOOD THING

When people like this exist, it becomes extremely clwar that hitlers ovens wee wasted on jews.
>>
>>561990234
Why are you refusing to reply to the intellectually sane comments? Is it because you can't counteract them?
>>
ITT: A lack of basic semiotic understanding
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>>561991947
Possible, but I think it's more possible that we are all independent consciousness.

But if we all apply ourselves towards the same goals, we do achieve a higher level of combined consciousness, and may ascend into a higher level of thinking.

I mean, if everybody on this planet concerned themselves with how we could all possibly love each other, would we not end up finding a way to do so?

Think about it.
>>
>>561992395
Not in that particular way, no.

It's not nearly that set in stone. It's all chance. Everything is likely to play out in a certain fashion due to physical laws, and the cycles that come with them.
>>
>>561993063
what about this?:

>>561988798
>>561989052
>>
I'm something of a Pantheist myself.
I lean into the eastern ideas that the perception of the universe being composed of separate things is an illusion, with the totality of all "things" in existence collectively being what could be called God (though I often like to use the word Tao, from Taoism).

If it can be said that intelligence exists at all, then intelligence is a trait of this one being, that intelligence is indeed a trait of the universe as a whole. The same could be said for life, the universe is alive.

I'm no word smith, so this could be explained a lot better, but I'm sure your all smart enough to see what I mean.
>>
>>561976298
>Prove to me that an infinite omnipresent entity doesn't exist.
Religion is faith - faith is something that cannot be proven, but is believed in. If you could prove the existence of such an entity, it would no longer be faith, it would be fact. If it were fact, nobody would argue against it.

l2religion
>>
>>561992930
You can't ascend to anything, we've almost reached the limits of organic intelligence.

To put it bluntly, nothing like that can happen. Consciousness is a limited thing. Those who think it is a separate, yet inherent part of our reality are mistaken or misinformed.
>>
>>561993063
so, patterns. fractals. mathematics. these are what you believe to be the 'backbone' of life and conciousness, yes? if so, that is a good theory. numbers and patterns are everywhere and in everything
>>
>>561992637
>No no no no you are so off wow

Don't be so hard on yourself.

It's all right, you aren't ready to understand yet.

Everything in it's own time.
>>
>>561991775
Proving that "not X" is true has nothing to do with that "negative" that has been mentioned before. As an example think about proving "there are truths that cannot be expressed by any language"
>>
>>561990862
I quoted myself, I just wanted to point out that the existence of a higher conscience and the existence of any set of physical laws are not mutually exclusive.
>>
>>561993335
Sorry I see you mane

You're over thinking it. You are proving the presence of absence. It's just the simple idea that you can't directly prove a negative.
>>
>>561993512
religions are literary works regarding metaphysical themes
>>
>>561994098
then tell me whats the difference between a negative and an absence? are you saying that a 4th side is absent from a triangle? how is that any different from saying that a triangle does not have 4 sides?
>>
>>561993949
Leave the thread, the fact that you just said that shows you're a egotist fuck with no concern for truth, but your own agenda of belief.

Eat shit. That's a good belief.
>>
>>561994098
if x == False then
>>
>>561993715
>can't ascend to anything

not entirely true. powerful psychedelics can change your perception and technically make you think at a higher level, even if it is only for a short period of time.

even marijuana can make you think deeply and philosophically
>>
>>561994606
I mean outside of the limits of your brain. Change in perception is entirely a different story.

>psilocybin/psilocin
>>
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>>561993715
>consciousness is a limited thing
This holds truth, but it's only limited by one's ability to create, and the ability to view what is inside of one's self.

Think about when you dream. Have you ever woken up in a dream? Found yourself standing in the midst of some strange scenario, wondering how you got there, or what you're doing?

Have you ever felt as though you're falling backwards, only to be jerked wide awake by your pounding heart and other physiological reactions?

Have you ever found yourself saying what somebody else happened to be thinking? Purely coincidence?

Have you found that stressful patches in life have led to health decline?

Consciousness is not as limited as I think you're stating it to be.
>>
>>561992930
>Possible, but I think it's more possible that we are all independent consciousness.

This illusion of separation is necessary for the fulfillment of the process.

But you are very wise for your current level of development. Even In your current limited state you recognize the necessity of the coming alignment of purpose, and the wonders it will permit. Every person is a wonder, but even so, you are exceptional.

Mad props, nigga.
>>
>>561994371
No, rather a triangle cannot have a fourth side. The fourth side is never absent, because it could never have been there initially.
>>
>>561976298
I'm with you. Athiests can't prove shit, and want to try to assign a "likelihood" that there is no higher intelligence or emergent property at work. Well, sorry, it just doesn't hold water. It's a mystery either way. You don't know what there might be but you can choose to hope or believe there is something more—or not. Just don't assume you're "right" and everyone else is "wrong" because nobody really fucking knows or even has a clue.
>>
>>561995208
>a triangle cannot have a fourth side.
exactly. this is a negative statement that can be proven. the 4th side is not absent.
>>
>>561976298

>Prove to me that an infinite omnipresent entity doesn't exist.

that's not how science, burden of proof, etc. etc. works.

anyways.

One posits an infinite (non-ending) and omnipresent entity.

The concept of this message to you, let alone the electrons that make it, the laptop I type it on and the device with which you receive it, the letters that I use, as concepts, even, all things that are not this infinite omnipresent entity, are, obviously, not this entity. As such, this entity is not infinite, not omnipresent.

QED.
>>
>>561995119
This same nigger what are you still doing

>>561995113
Still limited in the sense that our brain capacity is responsible for it. What you say also hold true, although you can't transcend the limit of what is enabling the consciousness in the first place.

It's all in your head though. as they say.
>>
>>561994498
>Leave the thread, the fact that you just said that shows you're a egotist fuck with no concern for truth, but your own agenda of belief.

If you were projecting any harder, we could make some popcorn and sell tickets.
>>
>>561994989
ok i see what you mean.

quick question: do you follow any religions?
>>
>>561995484
Way to put it in a rekt manner
>>
>>561976298
If God truly existed, you would have never been born.

You're such an abomination, that your mere presence in this universe disproves a god. Because nothing could ever actually PLAN on your existence.
>>
>>561995832
>Don't be so hard on yourself

>It's alright, you aren't ready to understand

Implying you operate on another tier of knowledge? It wasn't meant to come off as projecting, rather than you being fixated on some bullshit and me expressing that.
>>
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>>561991174
>>561991656
>>561991195
>>561992756

I think those words came across wrong. If the whole world insisted the sky was blue, but every day to you it looked purple. Everyone would call you colorblind. It wouldn't make the sky any less purple.

When you experience the presence of the God, and see its influence on the world, nothing can convince you it's not real. There is too much cognitive dissonance in pretending the sky is a different color.

>>561992856
Man I can't keep up with all the replies. I'm trying to get to them all as best I can. I'm reading a lot of the sub-discussions going on as well.
>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet
Spiritual experiences don't have to be real (not saying that the experience doesn't exist).
Our brain evolved semi-randomly, so all kinds of shit is part of the human experience, even if it doesn't make sense or has roots in reality.

If we really want to talk about this we have to start defining words and get into deep philosophy, which ends in opinions.
>>
>>561996458
regarding:
>>561995428
am i to assume that you agree that the statement "a triangle cannot have a fourth side" is a negative statement that can be proven
>>
>>561995920
Not in particular, none of them provide any real answers. Maybe science? .
>>
It cannot exist because of a paradox that states that an omnipotent entity can limit it's own power.
>>
>>561976607
>>561976706

Not OP, but I do believe consciousness is a much more common occurrence than most people think, and that the entire universe may be conscious. That consciousness could be called "God" since it would be the closest thing to a God that actually exists.

Consciousness in the human brain is a process involving neurons exchanging electrochemical signals. In the same way that enough monkeys with enough typewriters and enough time would eventually produce the complete works of Shakespeare, there must be occasions in which particles of interstellar dust, or hydrogen and helium within stars, interact by pure chance in a way that mimics the interaction of neurons in the human brain. This produces consciousness. Mostly very briefly, but occasionally for long periods of time, perhaps much longer than a human lifespan. You might say it's not call it true consciousness if it's just occurring spontaneously through random chance, but our own consciousness is the product of random chance, too.
>>
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>>561995789
I like how you and >>561995832 <that guy don't get along, yet you both see things in a similar way. I wonder what would happen if you both found a way to agree upon a single concept?

Argument doesn't yield results, argument is just a manifestation of the idea that all things exist in a duality. Why must they? He is bad, I am good, what is that, anyway?

Literally anything that anybody at all on the face of this planet has to say holds validity in one way or another, and to discredit that validity would be to discredit the validity of your systems of belief.
>>
>>561996796
The triangle is defined as a three sided object, so there would be no instance in which it had a fourth side.

Still some disparity.
>>
>>561997074
>there would be no instance in which it (a triangle) has a fourth side.
how is this not a negative statement that can be proven?
>>
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>>561976298
Prove I'm not that entity
>>
Your god sucks the worst of all. Muslims will see you as simply another chance to demand "Islam or The Sword", then take all your shit and own you. Think you can defend yourself against The Jihad?
>>
>>561996727
so the reason you believe.....is because you believe???
>>
>>561997285
You are that entity.
>>
>>561996842
There are logical paradoxes that should avoid you from ever moving in space, yet you do! Funny how we can see in the fissures of reason that our logic is kind of a reduction of phenomena for practical purposes of our existence
>>
>>561996993
I wouldn't say similar. The anon seems to think human bodies are vessels for some sort of super-consciousness, when in reality, consciousness is brought upon by an individual's brain and isn't "connected" to another's.
>>
I hope this is an elaborate ruse
>>
>>561997442
This is the premise all religions believing in an omnipotent being, yes.
>>
>>561983816
Prove it, faggot.
>>
>>561995428
you were initially on >>561976706 and you were right, proving a negative is (obviously) logical (since the proof needs to be logical to be considered "a proof").

The "burden of proof is on the claimant" has nothing to do with proving negatives to be logical or not.
It has to do with efficiency and common sense:
- assuming 1 thing without proof (there is nothing more) and looking for a proof for things we'd like to know about
is easier to manage than
- assuming everything imaginable without proof, then try to disprove all the things which seem obviously silly

on a side note: standart scientific fare is a combi of both, we assume there is nothing more, then come up with a certain amount things (not everything), assume them true, then try to disprove them. (a good theoretical scientist is thus someone who can come up with relatively sensible "certain amount of things")
>>
>>561997285
Epicurus was born 340 B.C. and died 270 B.C.
okay
>>
>>561995484
> the set of real numbers excluding all infinitely many natural numbers is still infinite

captcha students ftswthsr
>>
>>561997250
I see what you're getting at, but is that statement being proven directly? It's sort of a negative negating an absence
>>
>>561976298
Pantheist or panentheist?

Do you waver towards monistic idealism op?
>>
>>561996458
>Implying you operate on another tier of knowledge?

Why imply when you can directly state?

Allow me to be clear.

I am operating on an entirely superior level of existence to you.

Operating this body to speak to you is like a little thumb wrestling match that I am having with myself.

It's just that you are the hand that I sat on until it went numb.

To make it more interesting.

You see?
>>
>>561976706

Proving a negative is not a 'logical impossibility'. What the fuck, I'm so tired of hearing this.
>>
>>561997285
33 AD is when jesus died.
>>
>>561997817
>It's sort of a negative negating an absence
exactly, the statement is negative. regardless of what it is negating, the fact is that it is negating, and thus a negative statement. yes? please note i am not in any way trying to defend theism here
>>
religion =/= gestalt
>>
Prove to me first that it exists, faggot.
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>>561997549
>in reality
In reality, everything that exists in this universe came from a single point, so how can you say we are not connected in any one specific way?

You are able to talk with such certainty in a world where things literally do not exist until they are measured. How can that leave any certainty to be acceptable besides the certainty of uncertainty?
>>
>>561997970

example:

'Prove that 2 + 2 doesn't equal 5'

I have four sticks, I can arrange them into bundles of 2, of which there are two.

Therefore, 2 + 2 does not equal 5.
>>
>>561997250
see
>>561993970
>>
>>561976706
But you are already assuming it is a negative, therefore your logical is a fallacy.
>>
>>561997946
Make a thread. You're fucked in the head friend.

>>561997987
That's honestly commendable anon you right af
>>
>>561993970
>As an example think about proving "there are truths that cannot be expressed by any language"
i fail to see the connection here, could you explain further?
>>
>>561990234

>it becomes impossible to let rational doubts win.

So what's the point of this post if you aren't going to respond to rational counter-arguments?

I bet you're the type of person who thinks "everyone is entitled to their opinion"

If you can't defend your beliefs even to yourself, please leave 4chan forever and don't come back.
>>
>>561976298
You have committed a logical fallacy. Please restart your arguament properly.
>>
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>>561976298
My butthole has a wierd colour, I blame my shit, not god
OH LORD BULLETPROOF ARGUMENT FUCK YOU NIGGERS
>>
>>561997946
I'm not sure of your actual beliefs, but you know you're gonna die and it won't be comprehensible right?

I hope you haven't come to your fucked conclusions using any psychedelics, because that would be a shame of its own.
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>>561976298

> Prove to me that an infinite omnipresent entity doesn't exist.

Prove to me that he isn't a flying unicorn with crooked wings and joint problems

The onus is on the person making the claim to prove it, not on others to disprove
>>
>>561994606
>>561994989

proof please. I've done LSD countless times and nothing has been on an objectively "higher" level or outside of my mind.
>>
>>561976635
He is, faggot
>>
>>561997946
To be honest, I think you might actually know "it" after you said "this body is my avatar. your body is my avatar. all of these bodies are my avatars."
But I still think you sound like an egoistical dickhead

"oh look how totally enlightened I am everybody"
Chill man.
>>
>>561997946
delusions of grandeur to the max. seek help
>>
>>561976298
>Prove to me that an infinite omnipresent entity does exist

>claims without evidence etc etc etc
>>
>>561976706
/thread
>>
>>561998206
If you put it into that context I suppose we are, but how does that hold meaning?

Are the atoms that make up a meteor inherently connected to those of a planet, more so than in the way you state?
>>
robin will.i.ams is died. share your thots /b/
>>
>>561976298
It let Robin Williams die.
>>
>>561998210
Ah, but therein lies the problem; this only holds true if the meaning of the word "two" is perceived to be the same by all parties. If, for example, one party believes that "two" is what I shall, for argument's sake, call "two point five", then two would indeed be equal to five.
>>
>>561999056
erowid is a great website to get info on all drugs.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_effects.shtml

an excerpt from the 'description - high dose effects':
>One of the most interesting effects is the feeling of awakening for the first time ever from a previous state of sleep, the feeling of liberation from what is now seen as a life-long state of misunderstanding. Paradoxically, it is this new awareness that feels normal and natural and the previous fog is seen to have been unreal all along.
>>
>>561999056
I didn't mean to say that would happen, in any case. It's a seriously helpful tool for what it is though.

>>561999115
I know I came off that way, but far from it. Just another anon with thoughts to contribute.
>>
>>561998441

Don't get upset, I am just fucking with you to poke your kundalini.

Tell me.

Do you feel an odd sensation just below your navel?
>>
>>561999841

I meant prove it's not all just chemicals swimming around in your brain.
>>
>>561999115
>But I still think you sound like an egoistical dickhead

It's fun.
>>
>>561999841
>>561999056
of course, drugs can have differing effects on people, so you or someone else may not feel these effects
>>
>>561999821
However, two in this sense is not merely a word, it is a name for the outcome of a single object combined with a single object. I can call a piece of turd "gold" but it won't be gold, would it?
>>
>>562000363
It is all just chemicals.
>>
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>>561999359
It holds meaning because it extends to consciousness. Consciousness is that thing that measures, and therefore creates reality.

The atoms that came from the meteor, and the atoms that came from the planet all started off as hydrogen, which started off as that gooey hot soup that started off as a ball of energy the size of a softball that started off as a point in a void.

Consciousness translates reality, and reality came from a single point. What does that say about consciousness?
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>>561997442
I believe because I perceive.

>>561998615
It is always possible that I am wrong about everything I have ever known. By engaging in discussion, we all stand to learn something we didn't know before. But even if you prove to me that I am made out of lava, I still will not believe you. I will be compelled to find a way to prove I am not lava.

Untrue things can be logically proven.
>>
>>562000029
What? You wern't the guy I was talking to. I was talking to this guy >>562000152
>>
>>562000363
it is just chemicals in your brain. everything you have ever witnessed is. the chemicals "make you" think deeper
>>
>>561999821
i have no idea what this post means because every word you used is defined differently by me
>>
>>561998582
>>561998582
Let's say "God exists and God is an entity whose existence can't be decided by any scientific means that will ever be invented"
That statement cannot be disproved because it concerns the "negative space" of what can be expressed by the system "science".
>>
>>562001003
If there were no organic pink masses to facilitate that consciousness, everything would presumably exist as it is without it. Wouldn't make a difference.

I don't know what it says about consciousness, you tell me.
>>
>>562000613
Haha fair enough, I suppose you arn't going to convince anyone to kill themself by shitposting on /b/ are you?
>>
>>562001042
>I believe because I perceive

perceive what, exactly? and how?
>>
>>562001398
>That statement cannot be disproved
alright but we were talking about negative statements being proven, not disproven. im pretty sure i still just dont understand what you mean though
>>
>>561976298
Literally almost every religion says that they can see God everywhere in the World, what makes you so special?
>>
>>562001902
That's just an excuse to create a belief from what someone claims to perceive.
>>
If God existed Robin Williams wouldn't be dead right now would he you goddamn son of a bitch.
>>
>>562002024
oh yeah, nothing
>>
>>562002154
Did God kill him?
Nope.
Did God tell him to do it?
Nope.
Did God control his ability to do so, therefore taking away his free will?
Nope.
Therefore, God didn't cause his death and shouldn't be blamed for it.
>>
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>>562002112
But when you feel it yourself, you can't deny what you feel without lying to yourself.

Faith vs. reason.
>>
>>562002565
You can't blame a human concept, come on now.
>>
>>562001042

Reminds me of a saying by Robert Anton Wilson "what the thinker thinks, the prover proves"
>>
>>562000719
This is a lot like the question of god. Prove to me that anything (save your own consciousness) exists independent of observation. Is Schrodinger's cat alive or dead? If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
>>562001303
Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls trolling tr- Windows has suffered a fatal error and is shutting down.
>>
>>562002565
Therefore, God is useless.
>>
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>>562001551
Look into Schrodinger's Cat. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat

The laws of quantum mechanics state that quantum particles do not exist until they are measured.

I understand, that's a hard concept to wrap my head around, and it probably is for you, too, but if we take that idea into account at the moment of the big bang, there had to be something that measured, in order to have brought into existence even a single point (Higgs Boson?)

So, there had to be a measurement, whatever that may mean, at the point of the beginnings of existence.
>>
>>562002654
I try not to do that, so I'll be waiting to feel it then I guess.

What exactly did you experience, I'm honestly curious.
>>
>>562002813
Prove that he is a human concept.
>>
>>562003201
i second this
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>>562003019
I believe that He is there to lead us in the ride direction, not to control our every move.
Whatever though, believe whatever your neckbeard tells you to believe.
>>
>>562002565
Barak Obama, Kim Jong Un, and Tomy Abbott are useless leaders, and people hate them.
God is a useless leader, and people worship him.
>>
>be me, the universe, suddenly expanding
>I AM. Energy
>energy condenses to particles
>particles of matter and antimatter!
>they blow the shit out of each other
>one of them is more common
>they have different features + or -
>they orbit one another and make H
>the hydrogen swirls around and around
>huge gravity wells form
>Stars begin to ignite.
>The stars crush the H (#1 element)
>fusion
>2nd element is formed. Helium!
>Some stars are close together
>They make even bigger stars
>These stars make even heavier elements
>Some stars are too big
>The explode when they die. supernova
>the explosions yield more elements
>an exploded supernova drifts as a cloud
>on the edge of an arm of rotating stars
>its gases begin to form gravity wells again
>A sun forms with a disc of trace gases
>The sun is small and ignites the Hydrogen
>The disc matter begin to form planets
>These planets will have a variety of matter
>organic materials
>even heavy stuff like Uranium. #92!
>Thank you stars before
>One planet is perfect for complex molecules
>Non living molecules combine with others
>It takes a long time but proteins are made
>proteins make amino acids
>these amino acids are non living
>but they reproduce. copy themselves
>sounds like life I guess
>what is life really tho? Everything is One.
>Me
>RNA does well on this planet
>it interacts with other organic materials
>bubbles of fatty lipids make a good home
>the RNA that last long enough, copy
>some RNA can repair its fatty home
>they copy
>some RNA can soon make its fatty home
>a simple cell
>These cells and their data do work
>do work for a long time
>billions of years before complex things
>>
>>561979792
>Since the existence of the spiritual experience brings about changes in the real world, the source of the experience is therefore a real thing.
Nonsense.
If I lie to someone, and that lie affects their actions in the real world, that doesn't make the lie actually true.
>>
>things that react to their environments
>they still copy themselves, with variation
>still me but lets call this piece of me

Life
>Life grows in all directions. Anywhere it

can
>It becomes very different from place to

place
>Billions of years pass
>Life is much more complex.
>I am much more complex
>I went from energy to stardust
>I went from stardust to life
>Just a piece of me but me none the less
>I can look up at the rest of me
>I can think about my origins
>I can think about my possible future

Every self aware mind on this planet is just
a piece of the universe beginning to
understand itself. We are all one. We are
the universe
>>
>>562003598
So, did God lead him to do it?
Maybe.
>>
>>562003083
That does make sense.
>>
>>562004096
I like the way you connect all of that, but people might take it in a more literal way without an understanding of what you actually mean.

>hurrdurrrrr we r all one being hurhr2fsdf
>>
>>562001551
i wonder what other organic creatuons besides our pink masses think about reality. perhaps they see into higher dimensions!
>>
>>562003083
The universe is the observation of the void by God, like that.
>>
>>562004096
I think this nigga gets it.
Closely enough anyway.
>>
>>562001971
X exists = False
not (X exists) = True
That's actually the same thing. If X is infinite/omnipresent or whatever you can come up with to push it into the negative space of human perception, maths, science, logic, etc. then these statements just can't be verified
>>
>>562004025
uh-oh. Someone who knows how to logic.
I'm outta heres.
>>
>>562004992
>If X is infinite/omnipresent or whatever you can come up with to push it into the negative space of human perception,
i was never making any claim about god whatsoever, i was only trying to show that negative statements can be proven. like i said above (not to you tho), i am in no way trying to defend theism.
>>
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>>562004631
True man!
>>
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>>562003201
>>562003363

I'm not always aware of it. Sometimes I am intensely aware of it - that I am a part of it. That everything is a part of it. To feel it moving in you, as you move with it. A being of light that is bigger than all of us, that was always there. It at least the entirety of space-time, and conscious/sentient.

I don't understand what it is (other than it feels like everything), what it wants, why it's there, or much about it other than an intrinsic feeling that can only be described as "spiritual" or "mystical".

>>562004025
Real does not mean true. A lie is not true, but can be a real thing (and it has a name: a lie).
>>
>>561976298
I'mpossibru
>>
>>562004896
Why do you think this idea of an interconnected existence is so monumental? As if its the theme that encompasses reality.

>this nigga gets it

Gets what?

I'm not asserting anything or disagreeing, just asking.
>>
>>562004146
Then He wouldn't be the God I believe in.
Plus, what reason would He have to do so?
>>
>>562005459
A few words to supplement the whole real vs true discussion thing.
Imagine a magician on stage, performing an illusion. What you perceive is an illusion, but that doesn't mean nothing is happening.
Every lie holds a little truth.
>>
>>562005335
Lel I didn't mean you personally. I'm just trying to explain how OPs "prove to me" is bullshit.
>>
>>562005459

im guessing that "seeing is believing" doesnt mean anything to you
>>
>>562005459
>Real does not mean true. A lie is not true, but can be a real thing (and it has a name: a lie).
Then you've just rendered your own argument useless, since all you've argued is that spiritual experiences exist - for all you know, they can just as easily be "not true" but still "real." That's not proof of an "infinite omnipresent entity," that's just proof that somebody thinks there is one.
>>
>>562003904
>>562004096

i wonder if we are quantunly coorelated that is perhaps all of us are connected OR some of us are more connected than others dependig. on where are particles were in the explodeing beggins of the universe.

however it was quite chaotic in the early universe and there for those linked quanum particles in your body would more likelt be linked with random quanta all over the universe.

but why would there be a connection at all? (would be cool if there was or being able to observe distant parts of the universe using a quantum telescope of sorts)
>>
>>562004025
>Nonsense.
>If I lie to someone, and that lie affects their actions in the real world, that doesn't make the lie actually true.

That makes your lie existent and potent in the global causality chain of the events, so yes it's a real thing.
>>
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>>562004176
Yep, it also makes sense that we also exist on a level of individual consciousness as well, due to us being able to create levels of our own reality inside of ourselves, like you mentioned when we look inside ourselves.

When we sleep, our consciousness is no longer faced with the burden of translating our external reality. It is completely free to create, and it does just that. Sometimes it creates strange sex fantasies involving your 1st grade teacher, other times it's profound awakenings.

It's up to us to harness these. Some say that in the morning, after sleeping, your brain is actually "warmed up" to that side of itself, and is ready to begin the transcendence into a different reality, where the consciousness is now your "vessel", and your body is no longer what limits you.

This is the area of astral projection, and is very strange, but it is where we may find true solace with one another on a whole, as well as on an individual basis in the very near future.

>>562004851
Yes, God, but also us. We contain that same ability to observe, translate, and interpret reality.
If we couldn't, we would literally be vegetative, like plants, simply being, totally oblivious, yet content.

We are awake, but we can wake up even further. We just don't really know what that means or how we do it, but if we all apply ourselves and our intent onto doing so, we will.

Remember: Just because you're dreaming doesn't mean that you're sleeping; only that you suppose you are.
>>
>>562003083

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_causes_collapse
>>
>>562006082
pretty rekt

>>562006082
Really sounds interesting. To have a spiritual experience, regardless of its meaningfulness, must be a special thing m8.
>>
>>562005624
>Plus, what reason would He have to do so?
Don't know I'm not god.
You can only guess in vain if you're in theodicity stuff.
>>
I have seen this discussion in ATP millions of times, its rigged people
>>
>>562005616
I don't claim to omnisciently know any special facts, so I'm not gonna flap my gums about it much.
But basically, I mean we're all the same nigga.
Like that egoistical guy said earlier, "this body is my avatar. your body is my avatar. all of these bodies are my avatars." I believe that guy was also referencing it.
I can't prove shit to you with a words over the internet, so I'll leave it there.
I will add that I believe in reincarnation, but not in the usually understood sense of there being a whole bunch of different souls, if you catch my meaning.
>>
>>562006217
Yes, but this thread is about proving or disproving the existence of god. It has nothing to do with whether people perceive god to exist.
>>
>>562003083
>The laws of quantum mechanics state that quantum particles do not exist until they are measured.

Nope, the most agreed upon interpretation is that particles are in a superposition of states before measurement, then assumes a single state after measurement.
>>
>>562006901
*Believe.
>>
>>561976435
wut
>>
because i would like to think that if there was a God, he wouldn't be such a cunt
>>
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>>562006237
very cool! mind-blown

im a lazy mapper to sometimes i translate inner world to external digital realitys
>>
>>562001663

No. I'm actually the anon that located that girl last year who was cutting her belly open. Fun is fun but death is best avoided, I find.
>>
>>562006834
I can understand what you're trying to say. Don't be capital steez with that reincarnation shit though lol.
>>
>>562002842

I like to think that in the future he will be regarded with the reverence that he deserves.

A statue would be nice.
>>
>>562007531
Yo you saved that bitch? Do tell
>>
>>562007531
I don't seem to remember that.
>>
>>562006237
Just like Bill Hicks said "One consciousness experiencing itself subjectively"

Outside of physical sleep, how does one reach a level of "higher consciousness"? I've looked into DMT, Shaman practices and even listened to people like Terence Mckenna and Buddhist monks talk about it.
>>
>>562006217
Yes, the lie is a real thing.
But the contents of the lie, the event described in the lie, are not.
If I tell Alice that Bob stole her car keys when it was actually Carl who did it, and Alice decides to punch Bob because of this, that doesn't mean that Bob stole Alice's car keys. It plain and simply did not happen, no way around it.
>>
>>562004631
yeah. individuality is still key. The "thing" we are all a part of is not 3 dimensional
>>
>>562006237
>Yes, God, but also us. We contain that same ability to observe, translate, and interpret reality.
Ok then, a question had God started the cosmological fractal we're living on: observing and interpreting leading to other level of observing and interpreting (us), etc.?
Or God is just a practical pinpoint on this infinite loop of interpretation used by our infantile observation skill that may hide some geometrical mindfucking perspective?
>>
>>562007610
Excuse the ignorance but I have no idea waht you mean by don't be capital steez?
>>
Prove to me that unicorns don't exist.

>pro tip
>you can't
>>
>>562003083

Have you considered the possibility that consciousness, at inception, initiates a chain reaction, effect leading to cause, iteratively, that cascades backwards in time?
>>
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>>562008238
It is well known they do exist...
>>
>>562004851

this nigger gets it.
>>
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>>562008589
>>562008238
get fucked
>>
>>562007918
Mckenna has a lot to say about the things psychedelics might have opened our eyes to, but all the substance will do is alter your brain chemistry, ergo your perception, and allow you to experience that which you wouldn't be able to otherwise. That doesn't mean its an experience that holds any value outside of your own consciousness though.
>>
>>562007943
>If I tell Alice that Bob stole her car keys
Alice, Bob, keys. Ok you've just studied some cryptography algorithm.
>>
>>562008186
Just a rapper who did a lot of mushrooms and killed himself wanting to be reincarnated.

He probably saw the reincarnation thing much differently than you do, twas a joke anyway.
>>
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>>561976298
i believe that our consciousness exists on a plane that is, i guess, parallel to the physical one, and acts as a navigator for our physical bodies for some unknown reason until we die, causing our bodies to break down, become a part of the universe itself again, causing our consciousness to return to the plane it exists within until it is either called upon again, so to speak, to navigate once more, or to eternally remain within said plane.

Also, god is not a single being, but an entire force that set in motion everything that exists and existed.

TL;DR
>we are pilots
>bodies are vessels
>pilot till body dies
>return home
>recycled
>god is everything not a being
>>
>>562006124
matter can neither be created or destroyed. it goes from energy to matter and back to energy. The same energy/matter that was present at the beginning is still here. Well...supposedly. Quantum Foam kinda makes that a bit wacky. All over the universe at almost every point, even in perfect vacuum, energy is borrowed from the future to create 2 particle, 1 matter and 1 antimatter. They orbit each other and then annihilate each other and return the energy. That is unless something yanks one of its partners away like in our super collides. Thats how we harvest and collect antimatter. Wierd.
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>>562007829

There isn't much to tell. I found her website with a reverse image search, dug around and found a tattoo shop where she used to work and talked to the owner. She had friends that worked there and I just emphasized the importance of getting her to a hospital. I don't know if she actually got treatment. She might be dead right now.

I hope not though. She seemed nice.

But there's only so much you can do from the other side of the planet, you know?
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>>562007025
I was speaking in a physical sense of existence in a measurable state, I understand that quantum particles move in waves of probability, and will only come into physical, measurable being when they are measured.

It's highly likely that what I said is not totally correct, but that's a great thing, because no single person has all of the answers.

>>562007918
I would strongly suggest avoidance of DMT. You don't NEED it to experience a conscious shift upward.
All you need is to be relaxed, patient, and open to what will happen.
I treat DMT like spiritual heroin. The moment you do it once, the natural stuff will never suffice again. Just work on meditation, and projection will become much easier to tackle naturally. When you can do it on your own, you've removed the limitations that would be otherwise left by DMT or other such drugs.

>>562008123
God is in us. God isn't a separate entity. It started as one, and became all things in existence, as it observed. Our entire planet has its own consciousness, but at the same time, it shares ours as well as the sun's, the galaxy's, the supercluster's, and the universe's consciousnesses.

You're asking questions which hold the answers within themselves, honestly.

>>562008446
Time doesn't exist. We only say it does.

>pic related: how some people have presented themselves in this thread, when it isn't that simple
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>>562009156
Haha fair enough.
I will admit I almost wanted to so I could skip forward to a life in which I didn't know "it" (I didn't like it at first) but then I was like naa fuck that I'm gonna man up and live it out like a boss, so now I hardly ever think about it like I used to.
I've never told anyone irl though incase people think I'm insane or retarded or something, so I occasionally find some sort of "relief" in mentioning it on /b/ whenever a relevant thread pops up.
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>>562009391
The reason is entirely known... how do you think we became this advanced?

I think you missed the part where consciousness is brought about by our mental capacity, and is just another aspect of evolution.

Most animals and the like are less conscious than humans, some hardly at all aware, just to put the mechanism of consciousness into perspective for you.
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>>562010002
>Time doesn't exist. We only say it does.

Lrn2relativity
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>>562008859
>Alice, Bob, keys. Ok you've just studied some cryptography algorithm.
Oh no, you got me. I have recently been studying cryptography. This unexpected insight blows my argument to pieces.
>>
>>562007918

Alan Watts is good. Robert Anton Wilson.

The important thing to realize is that you are already in that state of higher consciousness. You are just focusing in on the part that is this. You just have to figure out how to back away from the spectacle.
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>>562010160
I wish I could be alive in an earlier era, I know that feel. I'm not sure whether or not things would have been much more nice and simple, but I definitely have to think so.
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>>562010002
>Time doesn't exist. We only say it does.

The order these posts are in disagrees with your thesis.
>>
I've read enough I'll chip in.

Imagine yourself in a dark room. nothing to do but THINK. You are infinite times smarter than the smartest person on planet earth. and you have infinite time.

what happens?

the universe emerges, in your mind. For an entetiy that doesn't have problems grasping infinity, infinity isnt "unmeaserable", for that entity infinity is just everything, meaning infinity is finite, its just everything. if that makes any sense
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>>562010256
i guess but believing in what i believed has put me at peace with dying some. i view it as sleeping for an eternity. and even if it's just complete nonexistence, which seems somewhat impossible, given that no matter is created nor destroyed, i'd still be okay with that. it's absolute peace it seems. i dunno. it's hard to really explain what i mean/feel. i still don't want to die -- like most people, but i feel that when i do, it'll be easier somehow.
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>>562009427
the universe is truly a weird and wonderful place amongst all that violence and chaos but I suppose life wouldn't be that interesting if we didn't have ups and downs but I guess it's all about finding that balance

>>562007918
I believe consciousness is a function of the brain to organize and interpret data and perhaps the best ways to expand consciousness would be specifically smart drugs or lots of new refreshing experience is getting a lot of exercise and oxygen would be good for steps as well as us all talking to each other further expanding our consciousnesses
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>>562010736
>I wish I could be alive in an earlier era

I also wish you were already dead.

AHahahahaha no i kid. I saw an opening and I had to take it. That's just how I roll, nigga.
>>
>>562010880
it's contradicting, but i understand what you're saying. it's meant to be contradicting somehow
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>>562010983
As far as the insecurity of death goes the feel is mutual. Whatever happens, I don't think its comprehensible anyway. Live it up anon, life is precious when it comes to all this.
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>>562010256
Be careful about how you talk about animals. They are 100% as conscious as we currently are as humans.

At one point, you may have been correct, but we only contain more POTENTIAL than the very animals we reside on this planet with.

Say a phrase you always say to your pet, but also be thinking about something you know they go crazy for, and tell me that the reaction isn't strong.

>>562010315
lrn2think

If time existed, I could get a big ol' handful of time and throw it at you. Time doesn't exist except at a level of which we move through reality.

The faster you move through reality, the faster reality seems to move. This is why things freeze at the event horizon of a black hole. They are moving infinitely fast through reality, therefore we who are moving at an infinitely slower rate through reality see it as being at a standstill.

>>562010764
I like how the inclusion of time was able to completely debunk what I said. Maybe I shouldn't have even acknowledged it...

There are beginnings, middles, and ends, but no time in-between, because time does not exist. If you can't get past that, then you'll be stuck in the confines of time for the rest of your life.
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>>562011020
>the universe is truly a weird and wonderful place

Well it's not that weird. Math is a constant. As long as math is a constant, then there are limits to the weird.
>>
>>562010404
Sounds good.
Like the Zen saying that everyone is already enlightened by default, but you pick up loads of bs along the way. Imagine a mirror that builds up muck or whatever over time, you just got to clean the mirror. It's not a good explanation by itself but whatever, I'm on /b/.
I think it's funny thinking about "higher" things.
If the totality of existence is one, then in relation to what could it be said to be higher?
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>>562011169
Hue no worries
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>>562010002
> You're asking questions which hold the answers within themselves, honestly.
Only because you've assumed this strong hypothesis to start: God is in us.
I didn't.

>>562010332
>Oh no, you got me. I have recently been studying cryptography. This unexpected insight blows my argument to pieces.
Haha, no it's just fun how the brain will always rely on recent experiences to illustrate arguments, even if it has nothing to do with the original topic. It's like goldfish arguing.
>>
>>562011528

Don't fucking get Zeno with me, bitch. Time exists. Our measurements of it are artificial constructs, but it exists.
>>
>>562011730

Ah. The Invisibles. That's what you want.

Maybe start with Flex Mentallo as an appetizer.
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>>562011528
How would you go about proving that? Their consciousness is on a simpler scale in accordance to the animal's mental capability.

Also, time is a defining factor in our existence. We can acknowledge it and form truth around what we already know of to be so (i.e. time). Saying it doesn't exist is naive, and I don't understand why you'd assert that.
>>
>>562011454
you too anon, feels good to know someone else shares my feelings towards it. it's inevitable and not necessarily an evil thing. live it up anon
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>>562011770
>human condition/nature
>this thread
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>>562011528
>If time existed, I could get a big ol' handful of time and throw it at you. Time doesn't exist except at a level of which we move through reality.
Throw me a big ol' handful of consciousness please.
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>>562011537
well its weird from my perspective because I've heard some people say that if some constance of the universe were even slightly tweak the constants of the universe we would not have the ability to sustain life as we know it and matter what not cosi self yes and we would just listening universe of protons
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>>562012735
This is momentous, let me grab a big bag of fuckin gravity real quick
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>>562012818
>well its weird from my perspective because I've heard some people say that if some constance of the universe were even slightly tweak the constants of the universe we would not have the ability to sustain life as we know it and matter what not cosi self yes and we would just listening universe of protons
Physics is tied to our universe.
Math is "not" (let the battle begin).
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>>562011528

Do you believe that there is something inherently special about Pi?
>>
There is one OP its called the universe
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>>562013619
The universe is a faggot?
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>>562012818

That's the anthropic principle though. Even in a universe where the physics were different, the underlying math is still the same. We are in a universe perfectly tuned to create intelligent life because only a universe perfectly tuned to create intelligent life can have intelligent life emerge to observe it's perfection.
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>>562011770
Don't make assumptions as to my hypotheses' origins. I started with a total lack thereof, and have come forth with some insights which may be useful in everybody's movement towards understanding stuff, and while it might seem forthcoming, I am entering here with a fully open mind. I'm taking all of these posts into serious consideration, and making observations based on what you suggest, and giving you an answer that seems to best fit what I know.
What confuses me is that you're asking me questions that you seem to already know the answers to. Don't know why people do that

>>562012045
>Time exists.
So prove it. Bring me a jar of time, or a way to prove it can be manifested and I will concede. If this were the case, time travel would be as common as driving a car.
>>562012471
You're so close, keep looking, and you'll find the answer to that one, but it's an answer you find by interacting with an animal without any preconceived notions about their intelligence, because they are just that: preconceived notions. As are your notions about time. While it may exist, it's as much an issue of belief as God and our origins and purposes.

I don't believe in time. To me, time is like the lottery. You can play the game, and you honestly won't be any worse for the wear, but what you're doing subconsciously is giving into a notion that there is something that you have no control over, and you just hope it's good to you.

>>562012735
Quantum physics already did that.
>>562013481
There's something inherently special about everything ever.
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>>562013847
Sorry.

There is one, OP.
It is called the universe.
>>
>>562011528
>If time existed, I could get a big ol' handful of time and throw it at you.

By that logic, I can say space doesn't exist because I can't get a big ol' handful of space and throw it at you.

>The faster you move through reality, the faster reality seems to move.

You are describing what happens to the rate of time an observer experiences relative to other frames of references, which is what relativity says, but you are just avoiding using the word 'time'.

>This is why things freeze at the event horizon of a black hole.

That is what an observer outside of the event horizon sees, but the person going towards the event horizon will go through it as if nothing happened (unless it is a small black hole, things will get messy quickly).

>They are moving infinitely fast through reality, therefore we who are moving at an infinitely slower rate through reality see it as being at a standstill.

Relativity says the time we experience from our own frame of reference is unaffected by other observers, the observers will see our time going at a different rate from their own frame of reference, hence why space and time is relative. Other observes speeding up or slowing down won't affect how you experience time.
>>
African Americans can't have evolved from white people. I mean, it doesn't make any sense; we're different skin. Check meat anitheist.
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