If nothing happens to my consciousness after I died, then that would mean that consciousness is localized in your own mind, and able to be found, or recreated in a clinical setting.
If I was reincarnated, would it be possible to suddenly "wake up" as another person and reading my last life's obituary, but having no idea that I was ever someone else?
If there was such a thing as reincarnation, would the life I have now be my first, considering I am aware that I'm experiencing this, but I have no idea who I ever could have been.
Right now, I know who I am, I know I exist within my head. How could I just suddenly forget all of this and be another person? I couldn't fathom it. Why do I remember this, and not another life?
I could grab my service weapon, right now, and blow my mind on the wall behind me, and just be another person within an instant. Or would I be in an afterlife, such as heaven?
If my consciousness would just disappear, then it's just a chemical reaction in my head causing my sentience. I can be recreated in a laboratory and inserted into a machine, eventually.
If my consciousness would just disappear, then it's just a chemical reaction in my head causing my sentience. I can be recreated in a laboratory
Except man does now know how to create living matter (other than sexual reproduction of course). We cannot manipulate matter in a lab and cause to become alive, let alone self aware and conscious.
>I could grab my service weapon, right now, and blow my mind on the wall behind me
You should. Reincarnation doesn't make you 'wake up' as a grown ass person you idiot. It means you're born again as another person/animal. It also doesn't transfer consciousness, only soul. Anyway when our brains stop working, we're irreversibly gone for all eternity, nothing that made us a person continues to live. Just because science can't recreate a human brain doesn't mean it's not true.
There is only one way to find out what comes after me, but I'm too afraid to be wrong.
And I wouldn't even know it if I was right.
Either I would forget and be the detective investigating foul play, be the just-born daughter of a Colombian drug lord, not caring about the situation, or I would just rot in the ground.
>I can be recreated in a laboratory and inserted into a machine, eventually.
If you were recreated, would you really be you ? You don't necessarilly need to be "inserted" in a machine. You can rather progressivelly enrich your though process with neural implants, up to a point where your biological brain become negligible.
Then you'll be free from your biological form.
The next step would then probably be freeing yourself from your physical form.
nope, already been done.
we've actually taken chemicals off the shelf, re-created the DNA of one of the simplest bacteria known, injected it into a synthetic cell membrane, and THE THING STARTED REPRODUCING.
this, to me, PROVES that life exists elsewhere in the universe. if it can happen randomly, it's happening everywhere
here's a source. i read about it in the economist last year, but this refers to the same journal article
Consider this: if it was possible why isn't there tons of people describing their previous life in detail or being able to prove reincarnation? (I know there is lots of neard-death experience testimonies but that's a different thing) If you kill yourself, you kill yourself, end of story.
Exactly, that's reincarnation for you. And soul can neither be proven or disproven, so reincarnation as it is/would be has no effect on our life on Earth. So to kill oneself just to experience reincarnation would mean nothing more than simple suicide.
But what is a soul? How does it know where to go when it leaves? Where does it go? Why does it want to go into another life? What compels it to do so? What proof is there that a thing called a soul exists physically and not metaphorically.
I don't think those questions can be answered, but I don't know how someone could even figure that out.
I bet we just rot in the ground, but our minds can't comprehend not existing so we can't imagine what it would be like to not exist in your awareness.
What your "consciousness" was a product of the interaction of your "soul" with physical matter able to store information. Once the carrier dies, your soul might survive, but in a totally different form of existence, not fathomable by our current mind.
>if it's happening randomly
No, it's not random. Researchers set out to *recreate* known life forms; they didn't just throw some proteins together and see if they turned into something. There was intent in their process. That makes it even more impressive to me; they set out to create life and they did
It makes me feel even more like we were put here by a higher power and with purpose. If we are just now learning to create bacteria in a Petri dish after thousands upon thousands of years of studies, imagine what God is capable of, think of when He created us, and think of the future He has planned for us. Times like this, I really do feel like we were made in His image and that when we strive to be like Him, we grow our relationship
you're all huge faggots if you actually think there's something after this.
get on with it fuckers, when you die the party goes on, but your invitation has been revoked. remember 1750? that's what 2150 will be like to everyone reading this right now. it's not scary, there's nothing to be afraid of, there's quite literally nothing.
none of this means anything. nothing anyone does means anything. we're not important, and quite probably not unique at all. i'd venture a guess that life, even intelligent life, is quite the banality in the universe.
Yup, your getting there mate.
>Why does it want to go into another life?
Mby it doesn't "want" to. Mby it just happen because it might happen statistically, like any chemical reaction.
>remember 1750? that's what 2150 will be like to everyone reading this right now.
2014 - 1750 = 264
264 + 2014 = 2278
>remember 1750? that's what 2278 will be like to everyone reading this right now.
enjoy your fairy tales. what else do you believe with absolutely no evidence? or is it only things that help you sleep better that you're willing to embrace so willingly?
don't kid yourself, kid. you're just another mass of cells waiting to decay.
this must be bait, but i'll definitely bite...
their intent doesn't matter at all. all that matters is that they proved that the right combination of chemicals put together makes life. you don't *need* a god to instill a biological drive to reproduce.
and as for thousands and thousands of years? that's a fraction of a blink of an eye in comparison to the age of the universe.
so, given enough time and the right mix of chemicals, life does spontaneously form
I'm not the one pretending anything here, you are. There is a possibility you are right. There are also lots of other possibilities.
No one can say that there is nothing after death for sure. That's why nihilism or atheism is stupid.
I'm an atheist and I don't claim I KNOW for SURE there's nothing after death. But if somebody told you there's a unicorn in your kitchen right now would you consider yourself dumb if you didn't think that's true? Well, you can't be 100% SURE there isn't one so... you're dumb by your logic.
Of course nobody can say for sure. Even dead people. That's the irony of the whole thing, nobody will ever know who was right or wrong. Joke's on us.
There's certainly no reason to think there's anything other than nothing, though, other than fanciful wish-thinking, which I can understand the desire to cling to. I did so for 30 years.
The evidence for evolution affects this notion for me also. Traditionally, we dont believe single celled organisms or the like have "souls" or "continue on" in some form. But if we actually were these basic few-celled organisms at one point in history, where do you draw the line between us being simple cells or common animals, and us being "special" with a consciousness that surely must continue on because it's just too important and mysterious not to?
Unless of course you believe that every organic life form does continue on in some form.
Not bait--I'm a proud confirmed Presbyterian, but I will say I have pretty liberal views when it comes to mixing religion with science or the state. Like, I believe in evolution, the Church and State should be kept separate, freedom of religion / freedom to lack religion, etc.
Without their intent, they never would have found the right combination of chemicals to produce life. It wouldn't happen randomly now, and I don't believe it happened randomly in the beginning of life on earth. We were created; we didn't just appear.
And true, thousands of years is not long compared to the age of the universe, but it is a long time in respect to the age of life, particularly intelligent life. We make huge leaps and bounds every day, but there are so many I will not live to see because we still have so far we can go.
We were made in God's image, and part of that means we want to create, too. Human ingenuity and the great potential of the mind to adapt and grow are some of the greatest gifts He gave us
fanciful wish-thinking ?
That would be true if I was stating that you retain consciousness after death. I don't. There's ARE reasons to think there is other than nothing.
Because our existence is not resumed by our physical self. Consciousness is not physical. It's an illusion. But an "illusion" is a concept developed by a human brain to describe something that we cannot grasp with our current way of thinking.
And that's the point. Your ideas, the way you see the world is defined by a mind limited by it's physical state.
But we are discovering that the universe is more than just the actual "physical" universe.
So yes, I think that there are chances that things unfathomable by our mind exists around us.
Hence I think anything is possible.
well put. Thats one of the many questions that haunts us and sadly we'll never get the answers we seek. Is this just all just because the brain evolved far enough along to acheive this level of self awareness? To realize you exist and that you will cease to exist, at least in this reality. It's a heavy burden to carry. Fairy tales were inevitable to pop up, boasting to have all the answers, and put peoples minds at ease.
You're both 'you' and a collection of neurons. Think bees or ants. A single bee is just a bee. Same with say, 10 bees. But enough bees and you get a well functioning hive where every bees plays a part.
You do realize modern science made obsolete the need for a divine creator for us to comprehend our origin?
you've read way too many pseudo-scientific books. you want to believe so badly that you're willing to consume so much garbage to keep that hope afloat.
i won't try and steal that away from you man, it's kind of charming, like a kid who still truly believes in santa. keep on truckin' godfriend.
It's not obsolete. Science is wrong a lot--because it's created by us humans. But that's what's fun about it. We keep changing and refining it and getting closer to the real answer. I believe that the world of science is a big playground God set up for us and He said, "Go have fun."
Science is the "how." Religion is the "why." So it will never disappear
I think reality is created by a computer.
And it's admitted by science that a computer that could compete with the brain is 50 yrs away, that means the reality we experience can be created by a computer in 50 yrs.
Now knowing Government technology is always 25-30 yrs ahead of what they feed us plebs, what makes us think we don't already have this technology in place.
It's true amazing things go down in the universe, things we don't understand. But that doesn't make them about us. Like I said, if there's no proof and no effect on our life, why bother with theories of 'what could be' after death?
>oh wait, it's been a great business model for so called 'spiritual leaders' since the dawn of man
Well, there's that. Thanks, I'll pass.
You believe there's something after our brain dies. Therefore, you have a very healthy diet of pseudo-science.
I needn't concern myself with your google search, there's precisely zero empirical evidence of anything after death. It's not even something for science to tackle, it's a philosophical problem.
They have a lot of future predictions. For instance, it was strongly believed we'd have commercial hover cars by 2000. It's 2014 and still no sign of them.
It was predicted that gas prices would inflate to 8 dollars and upwards. Gas is 4 dollars in my part of the country.
>It makes me feel even more like we were put here by a higher power and with purpose. If we are just now learning to create bacteria in a Petri dish after thousands upon thousands of years of studies, imagine what God is capable of, think of when He created us, and think of the future He has planned for us.
>You believe there's something
Wasn't I clear enough ?
I don't "believe" in anything. I just accept a set of possibilities, and I also accept that this set probably contains possibilities I cannot comprehend.
Why would you only believe in one truth ?
Science is the "how" and "why". Religion is the "how" according to ancient tribal people who had questions and science wasn't there to answer them. The change in science is what makes it relevant and close to the truth. Religion didn't change much since the Bronze Age because it sticks to its version of 'the truth' and goes 'lalalala I can't hear you' to logic and evidence.
While it's easy to imagine a vastly powerful computer simulating something like our own universe, it's still based on a premise that humans are the centre of the universe. Computers are familiar to us because we, humans, invented them. Just because they're familiar doesn't necesarily mean the universe exists in one. Maybe something similar to a computer, who knows.
you can't just 'accept a set of possibilities' that's a huge fucking cop out. there are INFINITE possibilities as to what could occur after death. literally, everything you could think of times infinity squared could happen. l2 occam's razor bro, or provide evidence that supports whatever quack idea you're touting.
My current theory is that "continuity of consciousness" is important. Even if your conscious was entirely recreated to the point that it was "you" again, due to the fact it hasn't continued from your current consciousness then you wouldn't have "woken up".
As far as the universe is concerned the body containing your recreated mind would be "you", but you wouldn't go from being dead to alive and conscious in that new body.
Similarly, I believe that if your mind was partially merged with another mind and finally a computer, so that nothing about it was shared with the original physical hardware of your brain, it would be one continuous consciousness and "you" would still be alive and cogniscient, even though it's no longer the original mind.
This is how i look at it, they say energy cannot be destroyed its just "recycle" and considering the fact that our life force is energy maybe we are recycled, but to where? Maybe that would explain the claims of people having past life experiences? Definately a weird subject and im sorry i dont have a definitive answer. Im not even sure if the answe i just gave has any relevance but whatevs
You certainly don't lose all of your consciousness do you, because you dream. What's more, you can be alerted out of sleep - it's a very limited form of consciousness but it never "ends". It doesn't even "end" when you die and are resuscitated, but it certainly does when you've been dead for a good while.
It's possible that the nature of consciousness is for it to be continuum based; even directly recreating the same consciosuness in its entirity twice would not necessarily "resurrect" the original consciousness, much like how creating two uranium atoms would never make them decay at the same moment, no matter how identical they were.
And btw, don't condescend like that because oyu think you are older than me. They are also older people than you and they don't share you're nihilistic point of view ? Or maybe are you smarter than all of them ? :)
right, now take those possibilities that you can comprehend and decide what's more likely. let's investigate some scenarios
scenario a) the yogurt is missing from the fridge
your logic: aliens might have taken the yogurt
my logic: my sister was probably hungry
scenario b) a dead body is found in the middle of the road
your logic: mogwai drank too much water and maked him died
my logic: probably got hit by a car
scenario c) you die
your logic: your immaterial 'soul' floats off into the heavens and you become one with the all powerful skydaddy
my logic: you die.
Dafuq is 'life force'? All tissue stays in your body when you die, all food, oxygen, water, sunlight etc you consume while you live is used to rebuild your cells, used up for walking/talking/thinking etc, exhaled or ejected from your body. It's zero-sum, you just transform matter and energy into different matter and energy through the course of your life. Nothing physical is 'created' from scratch because you were alive. And there's no proof of things beyond the physical.
age is irrelevant, only the ideas you bring to the table matter. i hear nothing new other than the same wish-thinking i always hear during these discussions, from you. your beliefs and religion in general are just a convoluted way of saying "i'm terrified of death".
nothing can be you, once you die you no longer exist and even a literal exact copy of "you" would still not be "you", an easy way to explain this:
Imagine that instead of you dying and a copy of you being made, what if both copies existed at the exact same time? They are 2 separate entities not the same person, no matter how exact it is, you would not feel or see what they feel, and when you die your consciousness would not magically be transferred into that body.
you are right in terms of your own experience however limited. and you are wrong if you think others experiences are not valid simply because you have not gone thru the same thing.
i would explain but i can see you have arrived at your own conclusion. nothing i say will change or convince you.
trust me....its not my loss
"How" is in reference to the actual mechanisms? How does gravity with? How do we build cars? How can we create miniature black holes and single called organisms from practically nothing?
"Why" is why are we here? Why are we driven? Why are the laws of physics as they are and not some other way? Why did we happen to involve into intelligent beings when our sister species died out or branched out to become modern primates? Why us?
Ok, explaining last time:
2) Great technology (GREAT)
3) Able to trace particle movements in LARGE quantities
4) Trace it back in time when you was alive
5) See how your brain was back in time
6) create it using new identical cells
7) you just wakeup
Another related example:
1) Great technology
2) Replace half of your brain cells (every 2 cell) with duplicate
3) Add duplicates to those every 2 cell
4) Now you have 2 of yourselfs
inb4 OP is drunk and lrn2 english
the reason i see things the way i see them is that i prefer reality over fantasy, even if it's uncomfortable or inconvenient. i'd love to think that i would live in a paradise, reunited with deceased parents, grandparents, pets etc for all of eternity.
really that is an amazing fantasy and so i understand the appeal. there's simply no reason to think it's true though, no reason at all.
What I posted is just some middleschool-level physics, not opinions 'based on my experience' so I don't really understand what you're getting at.
>why are we here? Why are we driven? Why are the laws of physics as they are and not some other way? Why did we happen to involve into intelligent beings when our sister species died out or branched out to become modern primates? Why us?
And religion's answer to all of the above is: God. That doesn't convince me.
life is simple, it's just YOLO.
so if you feel like you have nothing to lose and want to kill a bunch of people, grab a gun and go.
If you want money but don't want to work. go steal something.
If you feel like that isn't right, fuck you this is life. grow up and deal with it.
Don't ever let anyone control you.It's your life and for all you know everything is gone after you die.
>prefer reality over fantasy, even if it's uncomfortable or inconvenient.
>You are over protecting your argument. That's not a very good sign is it ?
Is reality really more uncomfortable and inconvenient than fantasy ?
i didn't have any past life.all i can rember was pre life and from what i can remember the maximum number of lifes you can have was 3 but at a cost........
i secretly think we all want what hes taking.
Its what Enstien tried to explain with natural selection.
We are the apex predator because of free will, its what diversifies us from other animals, our sentiency is our weapon, what it is though is unknown, it is the mind-matter dilemma, if all of us is controlled by the brain, then what is free will, just something our brain controls, or is free will spiritual.
Dont overthink it dood, you will put yourself in an existencial crisis
It doesn't have to convince you. No one should force you to look for your answers in a certain way, but I do believe that God is still there with you, whether you're ready to accept Him or not. I do think the time will come for you, just maybe not while you're alive on earth.
It's also so much more than just "God" as the answer to everything. Prayer and meditations let you communicate with God, and you discover your own unique faith together
For me, no. For those who wish to indulge in the fantasy, and aren't happy until everyone around them shares in their delusion (like you), apparently yes.
As for being condescending, it's hard not to be when speaking to someone with such infantile beliefs.
"mby" doesn't even mean "maybe"
It would mean "maybe you"
But you don't even mean it that way.
If you had to shorten it, it would be "myb"
But that wouldn't make sense, now would it?
>them shares in their delusion
You misjudge me.
If you would share my "delusion", we wouldn't be having this discussion. I prefer you have a divergent opinion, so I can use it as a wall to test my ideas, change them, and enrich my way of seeing things.
Yeah you have to believe in this "God" business, because the delusional hate to suffer their delusions alone. Usually they even resort to hate and all kind of base aggressive emotions if you just plain refuse to believe in their delusion, it's quite amusing.
the real question is: does it matter?
do i still care about what i am after death when i can't feel anything anymore? We don't know what happens after we die but we know that we want to know what happens after we die
we will find out when the time has come.
Oh, because it's so much different now it than it has been since the dawn of civilization. Face it, culture evolves and changes. In 500 years maybe 'mby' will be considered a cultured word to use.
I'm not hateful when people disagree. I like hearing other peoples opinions, but the other side of that coin is I'm not all of a sudden going to abandon ship just because someone has a different opinion either. I've never had a large base of Christian friends; I'm around atheists, Sikhs, Zoroastrians, Muslims, and Catholics all the time (Catholics are so different from Protestants; practically another religion) and I'm still me and we talk about our differences politely all the time. Even if I don't have the same belief, I can learn a lot from someone else's. The same applies to you
God comes to different people in different ways
All you fags don't understand.
The wheel of fate must turn, the Gaia Hypothesis, life is an intricate unapparent connection, individual thought is a byproduct of evolution. Ecosystems thrive in harmony but shut down where chaos exists.
You take one species out, it fucks up that ecosystem.
Life or something like it is like the geological cycle that exists on various planets, it's a cycle of matter maintained in our planet, for what purpose? Who knows, there probably isn't one.
TL;DR: Recycle and keep the wheel in balance or suffer the consequences.
Nobel created so many beautiful things that could have evolved us in to the next century if used correctly. What did we do? Use them as weapons. How? Free will.
Nikola Tesla destroyed his telsa coil plans, thankfully, because if the Americans got them, every other country would be fucked.
It's why treaties exist, so if one mans free will gets out of line, it will be decimated by a million other free wills from that countries army.
Its a weapon, it really is. "willing to do what you are told." Thats an oxymoron, you are willing to do what you are willing to do, end of story. Tigers in the wild dont dress like girls and snap pics of their dicks, we do because we have free will. Hyenas dont kill each other over what a head hyena thinks, they act by primordial urge. We are the APEX FUCKING PREDATOR BECAUSE WE ARE EVIL.
If the power of sentiency was a "superior analytical skill" we would like in a utopia.
And you just highlighted to a small degree one major problem with religion. There are so damn many of them. There are only 2 possible scenarios, too, either all religions are wrong or one single solitary religion out of the thousands that have been invented since man began to invent them, is right.
Were you lucky enough to be born into the right one (if it exists)? Cause that's what it is, real life RNG. We're all atheists; or do you believe in Zeus, Apollo, Poseidon, Thor, Krishna etc. etc etc?
Singular consciousness is an illusion, we're all small parts of the web of infinite consciousness of the universe itself. Death is the removal of seperate consciousness and a return to the infinite, the true nature of reality, the one that we didn't create.
How do you cunts explain people who get hit on the head and speaking another unknown language fluently? Or totally become another person.
Does that mean there are traces of a past life stored somewhere in the mind/soul/whatever..?
Btw, I don't actually think it's more uncomfortable to choose "reality" over "fantasy". Because it this way you don't have to think about it anymore. The way I currently think is also a great source of frustration, and are not comfortable at all.
Have you considered the fact that you stopped taking these ways of thinking into account because you were tired of the feeling that they brought you nowhere ?
When you accept that death is final, and think that there is no reason for things to be different, it must feels quite relieving.
I haven't read all the messages here. so may have already been pointed out.
if reincarnation (or some other "soul" based theory) exists - is there a limited number of souls?
[from here on I will refer to souls as "beings"]
if when we die we become a new "being" then we are formed from previous "beings" - if "beings" exists then they cannot be created/destroyed and there is a set number of them. the population of "beings" on earth has fluctuated over time (what has happened to the "beings" during this time?)
>Different neurons replaced the damaged ones
>Those same replacers were not used much before
>Brand new neurons don't waste time on learning to walk, perception, cohesive language because you already know this
>They 'learn' new things with the power of brand new baby neurons, which trust me have power, because once a person looses the part of the brain which has learned visual perspective, said is gonna fall on the sidewalk for years.
doesn't change the fact that even if you considered trees the number of "beings" on earth hasn't been constant --> either "beings" exist elsewere in the universe and souls transfer between them or the theory is bullshit
either way I never thought of deforestation like that before - might become a tree hugger
Well, it is in some ways. I still don't want to be dead, that's for sure. I still fear it to a certain extent because regardless of what I believe, I could always be wrong, but honestly most other possibilities that other people present are less grim than the finality I have adopted. I feel prepared for worst case and most likely (in my opinion) scenario is all, I guess. I say worst case because even if there is some sort of afterlife I don't believe it would have anything to do with a celestial being, a heaven or a hell so with hell out of the picture, nothingness seems worst case.
My views aren't nihilistic, though, as you mentioned earlier. I think you can still live a happy and fulfilling life even if you firmly believe there's no paradise waiting; no final reward for your efforts. There's always the present, and we all love gratification in the here and now.
I think a consciousness is a thought form which if built up enough throughout life can live on after the brain/body dies. This assumes thoughts and consciousness don't necessarily exist as physical matter but rather that they exist in other, higher dimensions which can affect ours in the same way we can affect the 2D dimension.
What I think about a lot is what will happen to the mind-construct if you die. When you're asleep, there is no feeling for time. Death must be the same state to the mind, permanent. It scares me a lot that everything will go on and on, the world soon forgets about your existence, you're just vanished form the face of the world. I'm never scared about dying. I'm scared about being forgotten.
have you read my previous comment?
i never claimed souls exist - might point has been showing how the theory of reincarnation is absurd
seeing as you are incapable of reading are you mentally stable?
>My views aren't nihilistic, though, as you mentioned earlier. I think you can still live a happy and fulfilling life even if you firmly believe there's no paradise waiting; no final reward for your efforts. There's always the present, and we all love gratification in the here and now.
I completely agree with that, and I hope you have found your peace of mind.
I just haven't yet.
it's an accurate representation of modern philosophy.
i.e. something completely irrelevant that has no bearing on the real world whatsoever. it's just pseudo intellectual dick stroking. worst of all, it doesn't even make sense. the thing he proposes can easily be dismissed by anyone with a basic grasp of how the world functions on a physical level, which he (and people who genuinely study philosophy) doesn't have.
Don't know, I still haven't gotten an answer back from the psychologist, because the only thing I wrote was lack of motivation, instead of nihilistic tendencies, read my other posts and judge for yourself.
>If nothing happens to my consciousness after I died, then that would mean that consciousness is localized in your own mind,
doesnt mean that it is
>able to be found, or recreated in a clinical setting.
Not yet at least.
Consciousness is more than the sum of its parts.
Ditto brother. There's a lot of comfort and consolation to be found in beliefs like yours so I also harbor some envy for people who can believe.
Once you come to terms with the fact that you are never going to know the answer in this lifetime you'll feel better. Just gotta go with your gut.
Your last sentence was true OP. Your consciousness is an emergent property of the vast system of neurons firing in your brain. The consciousness is the software of your body's hardware, so to speak.
I have been smoothing my edges for a long time now. I have to be tough because I'm fragile on the inside. You should keep deconstructing me, because I myself don't know what the hell is wrong with me. Send me some more criticism.
I agree with your points mostly but imo "life" happened by accident and its one chemical reaction - or mathematical equation dependent on how far down to line you want to take it - that is just following a predetermined set of fundamental rules
the fundamental rules may have been set by a "god" but as we have no interaction with it ("god") it is irrelavant to our existence and therefore it doesn't make a difference wether we believe or dont
I would say nothing happens and you forget about it. You ever know of those times you did something that you completely and utterly forgot, but you actually did? You were completely aware at the time, but now it's like it never happened to you. Same thing for death. It's not a pleasant though of course, I don't wanna die and be nothing. But I think its a sobering thought.
gos is real but not the wsy your thinking of it. God is in essence, as someone put it before the consciousness of the universe. or better yet the galaxies and stars. the universe is matter thats filled a void. but to imagine that this matter came from nothing is in itself as retarded as a bearded man or beutiful woman who watches us. these are our manifestations. the universe is energy to put it simply. and god is that energy
I dont believe in "souls" transferring from a dead person to a newborn. First of all, if you die, there doesn't magically appear a baby somewhere which your "soul" can inhabit. This baby is born independently, because his/her parents did it 9 months before.
How can your "soul" become something ethereal, not-matter from only matter you consume/use? your thoughts and everything you experience are chemical reactions in your brain, just like all your emotions are molecules released by your brain to make you feel a certain way.
Since I was 12 I always thought every living thing is one consciousness, and when you die everything about you dies with you, and not something like "memories and personality transcending into or to something/somewhere else. I did and still do believe, however, that the way you experience life doesn't die, and this one thing is the same for everyone, as in every living thing experiencing life. You won't fade into dark immortality, or "purgatory or heaven", but just continue experiencing all the living thing's experiences. Of course just like now, as if it looks like you're the only conscious, but only because we are not "connected", but all trapped in our own brain. This because everything you experience, everything you see, everything you feel, is all just your brain making vivid images, pain, feelings, in a world that is created in your brain, but in a real surrounding world. Think about it, your brain only shows a 3d world, but only because we can only recieve the certain information our brain can use and project. The world around us is filled with surprises, for example IR light, but our brain can't translate it into an image, so we can't experience it.
>the universe is energy to put it simply. and god is that energy
I would be surprised if you actually truly understood this.
You wouldn't not actually repeat this here just because it sounded nice when you heard/read it, would you ?
Your mind is not separate from it's contents. Your mind contains the entire universe. When you die, not just everything about you dies, but everyone else does too. The entire universe that you live in will cease to exist. Rest easy, though, because you already see reality in a way that has been dictated by your nature and nurture, so only one reality will die with you. Everyone else's will still exist.
Eisenstein said it very simply; e=mc2. Energy and matter are not separate. Our brains are complex information interpretation devices turning the energy around us into something decipherable.
>If I was reincarnated, would it be possible to suddenly "wake up" as another person and reading my last life's obituary, but having no idea that I was ever someone else?
no, because if we transfer your mind into another brain heit will only be your clone, totally independent of you, you'd have physically nothing in common apart from the similarity.
Ok, why not. Teach me then. What's the true signification of this ? We are energy, god is energy, so we are part of god ? Pls devellop, I'm genuinely interested.
>calling me a faggot was uncalled for dude. That doesn't make you sound very wise neither.
Not really, what I mean is I take things too seriously
When I go against 'social justice warriors' full bitch mode turns on
Already on it
Depends on situation, I don't think I have the guts to use a parachute off of a plane
Organs are valuable + knowledge in programming + polyglot + art (yeah i know how to 'art')
>Parents disowned or at least fed up
Sometimes but only at home
No, that's a really hard level to get on
I live life like boot camp there is no time to have muh angst or to be useless
Still, after you die and everything in your mind dies with you, including your universe, there can be no "nothing", because Time only appears when you have movement, which includes your thoughts or your experience of the "nothing". If there truly happens nothing after you die, you can't not exist, because there is no way of "not existing" if you haven't got time to make you "not exist". Who says there can't happen something after your death that makes your "first person" experience start again? even if it takes billions of years, it's an instant for you because you have no time between to endure.
I can't be sure of it - but I feel happier believing if there was an all knowing god he would prefer we take the intellectual route of questioning his belief instead of blindly believing it
taking dawkins argument it is more likely a simple organism was formed before a complex organism that could form life ("god") was formed - assuming we are the "god" of the synthetic life form we have created I would rather they believe we don't exist than pull at strings "just in case we do"
not a direct response to your view but my opinion on "manipulating the god machine"
why is the captcha my brothers name? fucking google
Read what I wrote again. Their entire universe ends the moment they die. Your's is fine, well other than your friend dying in it.
I'm assuming semantically that universe = reality. I'm also assuming not one person has access to objective reality.
The perception device turns off too, though. You don't need to worry about the paradox about perceiving complete void because there's no one there to do the perceiving.
We exist right now in spacetime but that is an active process. There is an observer and an observed. You cannot have one without the other.
Our memory of our total life experience is our consciousness. To be reincarnated you would be starting from scratch, tabula rasa imo. So you as a person would be 100% dead. But your life's energy would be transferred.
as the only way of thinking we have is our own (and quoting the bible indirectly) "he created us in his image" one is led to believe that he created us to think like him so even if he does exist (and spoke to us through the bible) my reasoning still stands
captcha: ifgynn LORD
Honestly there's nothing after you die. It's not a "big ruse" as religion is meant to be about community and safety, but it is a "massive hack" that keeps people from thinking about their own life/external stimuli in real time if you have emotions and if you're part of a community, turns you into an obedient little worship drone.
>every second of the day, you brain is generating every external stimuli around you. That's some seriously sophisticated cell compositions right there, and you have code that adapts through time that's literally coded and built all your cells? So very very cool.
Also I don't want to say Reincarnation is impossible or that I know what happens after you die. I firmly believe in a neuro/genetic group consciousness that is a combination of the instincts we evolve and the symbols of math and language we pass down. If someone reads a book you wrote in 300 years, contemplates your ideas, and integrates them into their lives, have you been reincarnated?
I change my mind about this too often. Currently, here's my idea. Previously in the thread I referred to consciousness as the software and the body as the hardware. The software exists outside the body, and the more of it that does, more of yourself lives on after death. Teach people the unique ways you think through creative writing or art or technology. Any creation of new information to other people's universe will not die with you.
Hm. I'd consider myself a pantheist.
A lot of the /b/ros in this thread are talking about simulation theory. They should check out pic related
The way I think about this issue is; think about before you were born, you can't. Its just nothing and non existence. This is what happends when you die. You don't feel bad about dying or have to sit there for eternity; it just ends.
Well if your book gives someone the same ideas and ideals you had, I guess it makes you "live on", but only in the other sense of the word, as in thoughts and acts of your reader. I believe the way we want to be reincarnated is in a way so we can experience our free will again, because our biggest fear is to lose our free will.
But if we look at how we all started, can you say you had a free will? Did you get to choose your sexuality? your desires? The only "free will" we have is to neglect our bodies needs. Our brain is our positive parasite, and it does whatever it has to do to make us stay alive. Every act of pseudo-free will is because our brain wants it to have the best life, the most relaxing life, a life where (for most people I guess) death is the least likely option. Ofcourse, when you do risky things, you do it for the adrenaline, which makes you feel good, and the brain likes that. When it comes to free will, my thoughts are that whenever you were going to do something automatically, think about it. What do I really want? Thats the brain making it's life comfortable. And rebelling against that, is what I believe, free will.
kinda got carried off,
Mark Twain said it elegantly, “I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”
>If nothing happens to my consciousness after I died, then that would mean that consciousness is localized in your own mind, and able to be found, or recreated in a clinical setting.
consciousness as we know it is just chemical reactions in our brain. so yes, we would be able to recreate it given the effort and resources necessary.
>If I was reincarnated, would it be possible to suddenly "wake up" as another person and reading my last life's obituary, but having no idea that I was ever someone else?
>If there was such a thing as reincarnation, would the life I have now be my first, considering I am aware that I'm experiencing this, but I have no idea who I ever could have been.
it might as well be your first, but it could or could not be
>Right now, I know who I am, I know I exist within my head. How could I just suddenly forget all of this and be another person? I couldn't fathom it. Why do I remember this, and not another life?
because the magic sky fairy says so
>I could grab my service weapon, right now, and blow my mind on the wall behind me, and just be another person within an instant. Or would I be in an afterlife, such as heaven?
fuck if i know
>If my consciousness would just disappear, then it's just a chemical reaction in my head causing my sentience. I can be recreated in a laboratory and inserted into a machine, eventually.
yes, i thought that was what you were asking in the first question
That's a good quote, but I have to point one thing out.
If you were the same before you were born (any amount of years since the big bang), wouldn't dieing put you into the same state, effectively making you "available" to be born again?
I remember my birth. Right before I opened my eyes for the first time, I remember there being a scenario of being in a line, and once you reached the front of the line, you chose your gender, preferred height when grown, and some other things I can't seem to place. I can't remember what the people in the line looked like, but I remember there being a few lines.
I believe free will is a very recent property of consciousness. The ability to become aware of all of the ways you have been imprinted during your nurture and of all of the ways you act because of thousands of years of evolutionary memory is the driving force behind free will. By being aware of these things and choosing whether or not to act on them, you are exercising free will.
That being said, many people are unaware of the way their natures and nurtures have affected them. They are brainwashed by their biology and sociology. They do not have free will.
>mfw people choose to be gay
>mfw people choose to be retarded
>mfw people choose to be black
>mfw people choose to be Jewish
Ops pic: The bus interior looks like the Las Vegas CAT bus.
Source: I live in Vegas.
If reincarnation is real, it begs the question, "what's the point?"
If consciousness is localized in the brain and is chemical reaction, then yes, science may at one point discover a means to transfer your consciousness to an "immortal brain" (cue Dynamix Earthsiege/Starssiege plot device; enter Bec Storm, immortal emperor and Prometheus.)
Personally, op, I'm in favor of a recoverable consciousness that may be transferred to another, artificial host. I have no scientific evidence to prove this, but it does seem (on the outside) more realistic than some pseudo magical, new age bullshit. Not to tip a fedora or anything, but its the 16 year old atheist/occultist/wiccan/brony that ruins anything to do with the mysterious and unexplained. Both of which should be reserved for when all other avenues have been thoroughly studied prior to jumping down that rabbit hole.
>cue Jefferson Airplane - White Rabbit.
If we were reincarnated, we would not have the same wills or desires. Those are too related to nurture to span being first a white male in 2012+2 to being a Chinese peasant girl in 540. So your "will" would not be the one from your previous life. However, if one is aware of the thinker, of the one doing the willing, it doesn't matter who you were before then.
I don't really know where this thought goes after that, though.
I don't agree with Mr. Twain. I do not think there are a finite number of souls that can inhabit bodies. And the human population is exploding anyways, do some people have to wait longer for their souls to be put into bodies? Or is it as Andy Weir said, and everyone is a reincarnation of just one person?
I think that reincarnation is a beautifully poetic way the ancient eastern religions used to describe the law of conservation of matter, and what I guess you could call "the law of conservation of ideas" although I prefer to call it collective consciousness.
I agree that if reincarnation is our destiny, we'd never have our wills or desires. I cannot believe a spirit could inhabit a baby and get a clean sleeve, either.
I'm really hanging on unto my thought that everyone's consciousness is one, but not in a way like "mass transcendence" or an universe full of consciousness, but just another thing, maybe another dimension, that doens't care about birth or dead, because it's all one experience.
Ok let me tell you about reincarnation... hypothetically, reincarnation is real and we all live life after life after life in animals plants people etc... whatever the fuck you think it is... anyway point being...
Do i remember being a squirrell, an ant, that guy or girl, that dinosaur etc...? No, i do not fucking remember my past life(s) so how is it relevant? Am i to rejoice in the fact that i have lived for possibly millions of years with no godamned memory of it?
Am i to celebrate an eternity of dying and being reborn and dying again?
Fuck celebrating that shit imma get immortality or die trying... not that i'm scared of dying but i'm more keen on living atm
The artificial host you speak of, what do you mean? I'd rather have my consciousness put in an empty biological host, from a test tube people farm or something. The pleasures of being human are too great. Although part of humanity is death, so maybe transcending that will also cause me to transcend my desire for human indulgences.
Then it also follows that I would not remember my days of vigorous fapping and penile pleasure. If I ended up the same as I am now as a little girl, I might wish the adverse of what I want now. To be a fat neckbeard.
I think I remember wanting that at one point. In fact, i think I remember this exact situation. I may have gotten skippity bopped as my female self and wished that I was a male and large enough to skippity bop random females. Now I am that but I am too much of a coward to skippity bop.
It sounds like bullshit but I know who I was in my 2nd last life. I have memories from it that I couldn't have otherwise.
Remembering it (and find out who that person was) scared the shit out of me.
I suspect when babies are born there is a merging of the soul at that point. I think we will be able to prove reincarnation by finding neurological memories (in brain structures of babies).
Even if we do reincarnate, then what difference does it make if we die? We still cease to exist as what we where. We would be an entirely opposite person.
Hell, I could of been
Adolf fucking Hitler, and I'd consider myself as one of the nicest people on /b/ as a real person. So what if we reincarnate? It's still no different than rotting in the ground, never fully known, never having a single person see the same things you have the exact same way, just... Nothing.
she is awesome, i think this is afrodita from chtr.. i saw her here http://afroditacamgirl.tumblr.com
Souls can be explained really well with science but it's not in the traditional sense of an eternal soul. It's more of a temporary collection of energy that returns to the universe and that could, in my very unofficial opinion, be perceived as a soul... They afterlife possibly an endless cycle of getting re-distributed across the universe, maybe in other lifeforms but it's not you... it's the universe which is you but also everyone else. But you, atleast the subjective perception of you, will not remember it. You can't remember it because memories are physical things.
If people can create identical copies to the eye of something simple like a piece of paper.. It should be possible to create an exact copy of your brain with all the neurons attached to each other like it was at that specific time.
I just wrote a response and during the captca ctrl + w'd my response. The short of is that I agree that a baby doesn't start tabula rasa. Do you think the body is an antenna for this singular consciousness? Or does it contain it?
Many people find comfort that something happens after death. I think you have all the right ideas though. Before and after don't really matter, only during. I also think that life extension is important and achievable.
Yes, we are the sum of our parts, I believe. I also believe that our parts are constantly changing with every new idea or piece of information that becomes apart of us; they manifest physically in our brains.
I think our thoughts, experience, and actions define who we are the most. The software, not the hardware, is who we are.
In deep mediation, you become the thinker, the experiencer, the actor, the one conscious of your consciousness. You can observe thought and desire arise, and chose what to do with them. You can chose which thoughts to act on, and how experiences affect yourself as you move forward.
You can create yourself.
Are you god, then?
I look forward to death in hopes eternal rest if i can't achieve immortality... in fact even if i do get immortality i'd still look forward to my end simply because i love going to sleep and i think to let go of everything would be amazing. Just letting go of all fears,regrets,anger,all your burdens and all your efforts just being released into nothing and then forevermore.
Just got on phone.
Thats the question i need answered too, from my point of view "antenna" would be the better answer, but personally I'd go for the containment within.
Let me elaborate in the next post
The best place to start is by training focus. You do this by focusing on the breath. This is because it is something that will always be happening as long as you live, but most of the time you are unaware of it. To train awareness, realize all of the sensations you feel when breathing. the air coming into your nostrils, the boogers that block it in your nose, the air flowing into your lungs, your chest expanding, your diaphragm contracting, every possible sensation it brings you. Focus on your breathing so intensely that it is impossible to think of anything else.
At first, you won't be able to last long. Maybe a few breaths before a different thought pops up. That's okay! as you grow with experience, you will be able to last longer. Let that thought go and return to the breath. Always return to the breath as soon as you realize you are thinking about something else. Sometimes I will be thinking about something for a very long time before I become aware of my thinking and return to the breath. That's okay too!
After doing this a lot, you will come to see the ramifications of this practice. You are trying as hard as you can to focus as hard as you can on your breath. But thoughts pop up all the time, and sometimes for quite awhile before you become aware of it. How much of your life is spent being unaware of the fact that you are not thinking on purpose? Your mind wanders and travels, sometimes to dark places. And what's worse, you identify with them. You think these thoughts that you are not in control of, ARE YOU, and this can cause lots of cognitive dissonance and other unhappiness factors.
But by meditating on the breath, you realize that you think accidentally all of the time. And then you realize that you are not your thoughts, but the one thinking them.
I've one last thing to any of you who believe in an afterlife...
Whatever you believe doesn't matter... the future, is an illusion. The past is unchangeable. Even your concept of time is an illusion. Time is not some permanent fact... there is no future, no past these are only dreams and memories. The present is the only thing that exists now so don't think too hard on your life and enjoy being.
I don't think it can. You affect the world around you in countless see and unseen ways. We seem tiny and seem insignificant but I am a firm believer in the butterfly effect. If you write a book, other organic computers can download the software you have provided them.
And if your offspring rebels against your teaching, then you have only created hardware and the software comes from other, non-parental influence.
Or do you mean that because of the free will to create a new life or not, that we are gods?
I'm starting to believe that, while feelings and so on happening in your brain are personal and not available through telepathy of some sort, your "living" experience makes up another dimension, which every living thing unknowingly uses to ultimately act out of free will.
So it stands apart from your memories and all the things your brain does. So just like Time began when things started moving, free will began as another dimension because of life and consciousness.
Live in an eternal now and be happy :) sage advice.
However, the past is changeable. By changing how you perceive the past, whether something was a negative or positive influence for example, you change everything that the past means. And by changing the meaning, you've changed it in the only meaningful way.
The second one. But nvm I'm just a bit confused. I have never touched a bible or any other religious book in my life so can't really talk about this without sounding gibberish.
It's weird though, to be able to decide the existence of a human being. Sounds to me like an act of god, but then from myself.
My 2 cents about consciousnes:
We see, ie 3D rconstruct, the world at about 25 Hz. That the rate of images that will make you think you're looking at a continuous process (Tv, movie).
There's a feedback loop in gthe brain. Actually several, depending on the number of synapses the signal has to pass.
A 3D reconstruction can be done the classical way, with compass and ruler; compass for making round things, ruler for making straight things.
a sphere is an object unchanged by any rotation.
a straight line is an object unchanged by any translation
So the brain build a 3D world by looking at all affine projections of its present model and reinforce those that are good guesses.
Oh no I mean the only thing not being only in your brains is the force that gives us the experience of life, every thing else that you think and your free will is in your own temple, and not transcend-able or another dimension. I meant that I believe that what makes us think that I am myself, and what makes you think you are your own "you", as in actually you experiencing your life, is a force we get as living beings and every living being that can think like that, through a dimension we dont yet know.
Im half contemplating and expanding right now, so not everything I state has been on my mind already
Happy to write it out! Putting my thoughts into words makes it easier to speak concisely in the future.
How much of creating a new life is free will? Most people do it because of hard wired neurobiological impulses that are out of their control. The biological imperative to continue the human race, or on a different level, giving into biological desire in a moment where protected sex is unavailable. Once you are aware of these things and act freely (to have a kid or not, it doesn't matter) of them, it is the action of a god choosing to create life, and not a domesticated primate channeling millions of years of biological memory.