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Kendo
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You are currently reading a thread in /asp/ - Alternative Sports & Wrestling

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Long story short, I'm considering joining a local kendo dojo to help with conditioning and just for fun.

I'm noticing the armour is as expensive as fuck.

Does anyone here practice kendo, would you recommend it to your average person, and why?

Also, how long does this thousand dollar suit of armour last, goddamn?

Any fun kendo stories other than

>I hit him first, shit was so cash
>>
Just go along and use club kit until you love it enough to commit money.
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>>997577
Yeah, that's the plan. Apparently there's a fairly reasonable amount of time between joining, needing the clothes, and needing the armour.
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The armor should last you forever if you take decent care of it, it's hard to damage while practicing correctly. I've been running my $600 set for 10 years now no problem.

I love kendo, but I don't know how average people really think of it. I only started it because I'm basically swordsexual and thought it was cool to begin with.
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Every video i see of kendo the guys are middle aged tubs of shit, if you really want to get in better shape and learn a more practical set of skills then do a grappling or striking martial art.
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>>997710
Well, I stopped doing karate because there was no sparring whatsoever, and its kind of important to do that, in my opinion.

Kendo looks cool to watch, a little more involved than fencing, at least.

As I browse various bogu stores, I'm seeing a lot of opportunity to bling out your armour, which I assume is 100% shamefur dispray, but its also rather tempting.

I'm committed to trying kendo out, worst case scenario I've bought a fun bamboo sword to beat my kids with.
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>>997730
Shills get out

That being said OP, he's partly right in that just doing kendo alone won't make you fit, same as a lot of other sports. Don't expect to be able to eat like a fatass, I mean.

>>997733
Don't bother blinging out your gear, it's not really worth it and you don't even know if you'll like kendo yet.
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>>997765
I do a lot of weightlifting on a regular basis, so its not going to be my only activity, though it will be my main cardio activity because, oh my god, fuck cardio so bad.

Thanks for your tips.
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>>997733
Do bjj, youll spar on the first day
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>>997787
Not a huge fan of the dudes that bjj tends to attract. Not trying to paint the whole style with one brush, but I'm not confident enough in my resume to get the requisite face and neck tattoos that are required for your first belt stripe at the local bjj dojo.
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>>997802
From my experience, bjj is more likely to attract nerdy stoner types rather than what you said. Those guys get tapped by a skinny blue belt in their first session and quit because it hurts their ego too much.
If youre looking for fitness and a lot of sparring then bjj should defenitely be one of your top choices.
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>>997860
>the hyper masculine UFC™ martial art of BJJ by Gracie™ is for nerdy guys

Yeah, I can't picture you being much wronger, though I can't stop you from trying.
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>>997860
I'm genuinely curious, do BJJ shills go into wrestling threads and suggest the undertaker start training with the gracies if he wants to win another wrestlemania?

This thread isn't about BJJ, in case the topic, subject and all subsequent conversation wasn't a good enough indicator.
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>>997871
Speaking of which, I hear about government paid shills a lot, but are they actually a thing? How can I get paid to shitpost and shill?
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>>997871
He says that he wants to get in shape and quit karate because he wanted to spar more. Bjj is a better option for someone with those interests instead of telling them to spend a thousand dollars on gear and even more on anime LARP classes.
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>>997891
kendoka train every bit as hard as bjj guys, and are well known for their stamina.
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>>997905
I know the guys competing at a high level are amazing athletes, but im not so sure about the average dojo youll find in the US
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>>997905
What does a typical class of yours look like?
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>>997923
When I did kendo, briefly, you did alot of suburi, and then you ran drills for a hour or so, after than you did paired stuff and students who had been there long enough sparred. generally you had to train several months before they let you put gear on, and then you had be be able to get through practice with the gear on.

so very aerobic, I would say judo was tougher is some ways, but kendo was hardly a walk in the park
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>>997940
What is suburi?
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>>997891
>memejitsu
>spending $1000 on gear as a beginner
O i am laffin
If op wanted to do bjj I'm sure he'd have already considered it.

Anyway, any jodan players in here? I'm trying to transition after 7 years with chuudan, and could use some tips. I'm supposed to push against the handle and tsuba with my right hand for added force, right? It feels awkward trying to stop a full speed swing with just my left hand though. Is it just a matter of working on wrist strength?
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>>997944
practice swings, the really hard core guys might do hundreds a day
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>>997948
Damn sun, must get sweaty in all that sepiroth cosplay. I would imagine its a pain in the ass to keep the helmet and padding clean and smelling good.
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>>997956
They have carbon inserts for that, plus you wear a Japanese du-rag under the helmet to absorb sweat.
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>>997945
Would you care to explain the differences between jodan and chuudan to an uninitiated person?
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>>998275
Chuudan is the "basic" stance, where you stand with your shinai in front of you. Jodan is "high" stance, where you start with your shinai already raised over your head, and most people also put their left foot forward in this stance instead. With it, you have increased range and attacking speed, as well as it being harder to hit to get hit on men in neutral, but it's more advanced than chuudan, and has it's own disadvantages.

There is one other situational stance, two others that are only really used in kenjutsu (not illegal for kendo, just generally impractical for tournaments), and a different fighting style using two swords, but you shouldn't really worry about anything but chuudan if you're new to kendo.
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>>998329
Are you telling me you've been standing one way for seven years when there's a handful of ways to stand?
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>>998368
Chuudan is the most balanced stance, if we're looking at this like a video game. I didn't really have an interest in jodan before, since it doesn't really match how I fight, but I'm learning it now since I've had trouble fighting it in the past, and it'd be good to learn how to fight with it to go against it.

...also because I'm an 18 year old weeb who finds nito ryu totally badass and wants to learn it, but gets that I should learn jodan before that.
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>>998386
Besides, it doesn't get boring even after so long with chuudan tbqh senpai. Every match is exciting since every one is a chance to master a technique.
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>>998386
Ah, your age excuses you. I'm familiar with how MA classes treat youth.

>here's a stance, keep doing it for as long as your parents write the cheques, if you stick around after 18 I might teach you something else
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>>998399
Not really, the vast majority of kendoka use chuudan to begin with. I've been taught jodan anyway, I just never liked it enough to pursue it.

Having multiple flashy stances doesn't matter, chuudan is the most effective one anyway. You can try using shit like hassou no kamae or waki kamae in a match, but you'll just get your shit kicked in.
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>>998410
>having multiple flashy stances doesn't matter

Don't tell iaidofags that.
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>>997651
yep, you'll know yourself if you want to buy the armour.

>>997730
>>997765
Don't know what sort of Kendo you guys are doing\seeing. Kendo at my Dojo is brutal exercise and even the older middle aged and senior players are surprisingly vigorous and have incredible speed and stamina. Competitive level people I see are all also really fit athletes.

>>997891
stop talking shit on what you have no idea about

>>997940
Yeah, if you try training in the armour without conditioning first you're prone to collapsing with exhaustion and just fucking up your technique.

>>997956
Uniform and armour is dyed with a natural indigo dye which is microbial and Asians don't really get much BO anyway. I'm yet to smell anything offensive.

>>998368
Here's a fag that's never trained any striking martial arts before. There's an on guard position and its used because it works.
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>>998859

>Uniform and armour is dyed with a natural indigo dye which is microbial and Asians don't really get much BO anyway. I'm yet to smell anything offensive.

*anti-microbial
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>>998410
That largely because, given the valid targets, chudan and jodan are the only stances that make any sense
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>>998953
That's a pretty good point, I suppose.
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Do you prefer shinai or bokken, and why?
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>>999932
Bokken are too monocolor. They'd definitely be better in a fight, but shinai are more aethetically pleasing to me.
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>>1000113
You can stain a bokken yourself if you wanted to, you know.

Wood stain comes in all the colours of the rainbow.
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Any nito players in here? I'm not really interested in starting it, but the post above got me curious. How do you get the most power out of swinging your daito? In jodan, you use your right hand to push the shinai for speed and power, but you don't have the ability to do that with two swords. In double jodan sure, but that's a super situational kamae.
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From the little I've seen of kendo, it seems like simply trying to break your opponent's guard would be a viable tactic in and of itself. I see a lot of stick waggling with loose grip, and I feel like a proper overhead smash would hit the target a reasonable percentage of the time.

Not taking into account footwork, of course, because everyone is a ninja that could never be hit.

Are the shinai just too fragile to allow for power blows?
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>>1000681
Not really. There's even a series of techniques dedicated to bashing or moving away your opponent's shinai. But even if a grip looks loose, disarms almost never happen at higher levels with opponents of equal standing.

You can actually block a full power swing without too much problem, but as you mentioned, the footwork involved makes it impractical to use in the first place when you consider counterattacks. Also, you should remember that kendo is closer to a sport than realistic sword fighting per say, which is why 2 of the 5 main stances almost never see use (situationally useful in a realistic swordfight, not as useful for tournament style matches that focus on speed).
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>>1000802
In the event that a disarm does occur, does the match pause? Is it a point for the disarmer, or does he still have to strike a blow?
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>>1000830
You get a few seconds to strike a blow. After that, the judges will call for you to go back to the center. It's the same if a player falls down too, whether by being tackled or just slipping.
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>>1000867
Is it considered good form to allow an opponent to recover from mishap, or is it more "I can't believe you didn't hit him, you idiot"?
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>>1000906
Honestly, I'm not completely sure. I was taught to go for the hit everytime, but I learned at a kumdo school, and the claim seems to be Koreans have a more aggressive mindset/fighting style in matches.
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>>1000921
So basically just ask at whatever dojo you go to, or abide by your own morals.

I appreciate the answers you've given, thanks.
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>>997527

I was in the Kendo club in college, it's a lot of fun and great cardio. I'd recommend it because it's got the fun and intensity of a combat sport without the risk of serious injury like judo or boxing. The worst I've ever seen people get hurt in kendo is some light bruising, I also did judo in college and I personally broke my ankle, my friend got a concussion, another friend had his cornea damaged, everyone fucked up their fingers at some point, etc.

You probably will not be allowed to even wear the armor or spar for a long time, so go ahead and join before you buy anything. They'll have extra shinai for you to use there, but you'll probably want to buy your own quickly. The instructor should tell you when you're ready for the armor and other members can help you pick it out. It should last you for the rest of your life if you buy quality. There is no need to spend as much as 1000$, you can get a high quality armor for around 500. When I practiced the best website for buying gear was e-bogu.com. Hope that helps.
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>>1000990
Why did you stop practicing?
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>>1000990

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that no combat sport is going to make you fit just by itself. It doesn't matter if its kendo, boxing, judo, wrestling, etc. you need to do conditioning on your own time. Most of the guys in the kendo and judo clubs, including myself, did weightlifting on their own time.
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>>1000990
>e-bogu
I can't call their products low quality, but those shipping prices make me cry.

Also op, you probably shouldn't try to buy especially high quality gear right off the bat; like this guy says, a $500 set of gear is good enough to last you forever, and a cheap $30 shinai is fine too. The more expensive ones are geared for people who participate in tournaments and are experienced enough to actually prefer slight differences in weight and so forth.
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>>1001004
I do a fairly large weightlifting routine, as I said in the OP, I'm just looking for a side activity to function as conditioning.
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Kendo is just fencing with yelling.

Find me to be incorrect.

That said, its bullshit that it's not an Olympic sport.
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>>1008954
You'be obviously never fenced then.

Sabre is 90% yelling
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>>1008967
Sabre isn't fencing.

Foil is fencing.
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>>1008980
>*epee is fencing

There fixed it for you.
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>>1008954
kendo doesn't want to be an olympic sport, they feel it would kill kendo's character as a martial art
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I feel like a total weeb doing all this shit in kendo but I guess there's nothing to be done
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>>1009122
If kendo wanted to preserve its martial arts cred they'd need to severely adjust how sparring is scored.

The fact that only two stances have any viability is a red flag.
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>>1009142
>2012 + 4
>not being a weeb
embrace the darkness
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Sometimes I see people crossing swords and body slamming each other in kendo matches. Is that allowed?

Because I'm a bigguyitwouldbeextremelypainful4u and I feel like that could be a good tactic.
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>>1009245
To the extent the kendo kata are still practiced correctly and understood, kendo remains a martial art. or a martial way to be specific
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>>1010908
Kata are not combat effective.
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>>1010989
kata are the foundations of all kenjutsu, and they were and are very effective training methods, kendo armor was not even developed until a hundred years of peace had ensued, and in the classical systems kendo style sparring was a supplement to paired kata. Many of the older, rural styles never even implemented them
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>>1011015
The only effective way of training to fight is to fight.

Practical kendo is closer to a martial art than kata are.

This is why everyone here mocks CMAs, because they're all kata, and kata don't mean shit. They're good cardio, but that's all.
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>>1011025
kenjutsu kata and CMA kata are two different things.

kenjutsu and the kendo kata are two person drills, the "loser" is always the senior, whose job is to push the student to harder and harder.

At the same time more freestyle and random elements were introduced as the student advanced.

They can be very fast paced, the can be unpredictable, and because of the weapons they can be dangerous.

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?53574-Kata-s-Hidden-Wisdom&p=504284#post504284

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=115976
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>>1011066
>kata can be unpredictable

Only problem with what you said.

Kata are by their nature, wholly predictable.
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>>1011155
There is a saying from one style: kata should be done with an air of distrust.

You dont assume what will happen, and if the teacher can see that you are making assumptions then they may take advantage of your lack of focus.

At the same time a kata might have variations and you will not know which one is coming at you.

in some schools the kata might only serve as a starting point for freestyle work

It can very from school to school of course, some might use all those methods, some might use none, some might do something completely different but this is an overview
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>>1011500
I would love it if a sensei thought I was bored with kata and wordlessly turned it into sparring.

This has literally never happened though.

Every tma sensei I've ever had completely drank the koolaid on kata, and used it to take up 80% of a class. I used to do a martial art that was completely graded on kata. All the way up to tenth dan. I didn't stick around too long.
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>>997527
On an unrelated note op, I reall miss Troy mcclure
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>>1012514
I don't know what you trained in but koryu kenjutsu tends to be structured quite a bit differently than most "TMA" at least in those schools that are more than preservation societies
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Are carbon fibre shinai worth ten times the amount of a regular bamboo one?

Seems a bit pricey for basically no advantage.
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>>1017225
How experienced are you?
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>>1017435
Not very.

Is it the sort of thing that might provide a 3% advantage to a godan?
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>>1017599
Yeah, just go with a standard one for now.
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>>1017615
Gotcha, I like natural materials more anyhow.
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>>1017225
To my knowledge, the only perk of carbon fiber shinai is the durability. Hasegawa for example, gives a life time warranty on their carbon fiber shinai. However, for use in training they increase pain for motodachi (recently talked to a guy who got his ribs broken from a missed do, due to his training partner using carbon fiber) and raises the risk of getting tennis elbow. Basically it's a good insurance if you manage to break all your bamboo shinai at a competition, but unless you're a hardcore competitor it's pretty useless.

If you want to try out different styles of shinai, there's a ton of different bamboo variants to try, I would recommend that before considering carbon fiber. For example, I recently switched from regular shinai to dobari and have noticed a huge difference in how it handles.
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>>1000802
>But even if a grip looks loose, disarms almost never happen at higher levels with opponents of equal standing.
Nishimura literally won this years all japan championship by disarming his opponents. But yeah, that's the exception to the rule.
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>>1018743
Dobari are the longer heavier ones, right?
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>>1019000
Nah, they're all the same length, well aside from women's and children's shinai. Dobari are fatter at the base, shifting the weight distribution towards the grip and making the point lighter.
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>>1019075
Sounds ideal, I will have to try a few different styles out, see what works.
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I'd rather read about this than fifty five-reply wrasslethreads.
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>>1010090
There's nothing stopping it now.
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Anyone know a way to check the dan rank of a instructor with FIK, koryu lineage or something like that? I'm also thinking about joining a local kendo dojo that is affiliated with the my country's kendo federation which is affiliated with FIK. Point is, they seem legit, but I just wanna be extra sure.

I was practicing Iaido at another place, but when I started it I didn't know much about everything so some stuff didn't strike me as odd but others did, and when the teacher instructed me to buy a clearly cheap decorative sword replica from an auction site to practice iaido everything just went 'click' "am I at one of those McDojo things?".

And so I went looking for somewhere with a better reputation/qualification and all that.
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Any ausfags know of any good dojos in Southeast Queensland?
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>>1025234
To be fair though, its not like you need a good sword to do iaido.

You're just fucking a scabbard for an hour, basically.
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>>1025307
a poorly balanced sword is horrible for iaido, and if you use a wall hanger it will probably brake and hurt someone.
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>>1025315
Yeah, that's why I decided to look for a better place.

When I searched better about the art and practice, things just seemed off. so the point is is there a way to check the qualifications? On some site or something.

thanks, again.
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>>1025345
You could try koryu.com
I've heard people tell me to go there when I was asking about iaido places, but I never pursued it further, so I'm not sure about that site
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>>1025780
Thanks, I'll give it a look.
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>>1025802
>>1025780
Its unlikely they could tell you whether his linage was valid. The problem with iaido schools like Eishin ryu is there are so many lines, with so many members you really have to know what your looking for.

If he has certification from the national kendo federation he is probably legit, but pointing you to a wall hanger raises a lot of troubling questions
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>>1025913
Thanks.
I think I must have mixed things up in the explanation: the one who pointed me to a wall hanger is not affiliated to the national kendo federation.
Because of that, and some oddities, I decided to look for a more qualified place to practice. This dojo that I now found is affiliated to the federation, participates in national events, etc... I also had the chance to go to one of the practices and it really helped clear my mind.
Here we have some ""kenjutsu"" schools and I did not want to fall on one of those traps.
not saying that kenjutsu is fake or anything.
I guess I will start practicing kendo soon.
Anyways, thanks for the tips.
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Any nito users wanna give me tips on controlling the shoto

Is there any particular way to use it
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Are there any good kendo communities out there? Kendoworldforums seems fairly cancerous.
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>>1026651
kendo world had some really great stuff on it at one point, alot of people with high dan ranks commenting on various things. Its fairly dead now but you can find some interesting stuff if you use the search function
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>>997733
Sounds like your karate dojo was shit.
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>>1008954
>>1008967
>>1008980
>>1008996

What is most like actual sword duelling? Like if I were in Somalia and some guy pulled a sword on me, which would be most effective?
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>>1026819
With Japanese stuff its koryu

European its hema

I don't know much about FMA
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>>1026819
>>1026839
And most Koryu seem to do no free sparring, so if you're afraid of getting mugged with a sword while carrying one HEMA is your best bet.

FMA if you expect it to be machetes instead.

I guess there's classical fencing too, the pre-sport fencing stuff.
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>>1027863
You don't need training to kill unarmed people with a sword. Pretty straightforward.
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>>1027982
He asked about defending from someone with one though.
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>>997527
>I'm noticing the armour is as expensive as fuck.
Then quit being a pussy and don't use it
Or do Kenjutsu Instead
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>>1027990
But Kenjutsu people sometimes use full samurai garb. Which would be even more expensive.
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>>1027991
Most kenjutsu schools don't train in armor and those who do only use it rarely,
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>>1000906

you hit them, you always hit them. There is no bushido bullshit in a tournament match. You just fucking hit them. (but only once, unless they're a dick).

if they drop there sword or trip and you don't hit them, you get half a point
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>>1029450
>there is no Bushido in kendo

Snake gym?
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When you get a blister, is it better to keep going until it pops or let it "deflate"
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>>1032556
Technically, blisters should be kept whole, covered in soft wrapping. They're a very effective way for the body to heal its own damage.

But that shit takes like a week, ain't no kendoka got time for that.
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>>1032556
You could try this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUk1_zVk_PI
>>
Hi kendofags. My friend claims that someone trained in this armed with a shinai could defend themselves in a street fight/potentially kill. I'm arguing they can't because from what I can see, you guys mostly do speed based light taps in matches and use just bamboo sticks. Mind enlightening me? I want to settle this peacefully.
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>>1040675
a shinai can actually do alot of damage to someone who isnt armored, but the scenario you described is pretty stupid
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>>1041019
Stupid as in it wouldn't work, or stupid as in too unlikely to happen to even consider?
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>>1041093
the second, though I dont think the shiai would do enough damage to stop someone determined unless you stabbed them in the throat or hit them somewhere vulnerable, they would be on you before they would be out.

why use a shinai when you could use something hard and blunt? or just a real sword?
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>>1041093
Not the same guy, but the latter, and then the former.
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>>1041093
A shinai will hurt a lot and you can give a concussion, but if the guy really wanted to hurt you, he could get past it. A tsuki (stab to the throat) would likely be fatal, but that's just opening a whole lot of legal trouble.

A bokken on the other hand is a whole different story.
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>>1040675
If you're willing to kill you could remove the leather tip and go for the eyes i guess, people have died from broken tips in kendo (bamboo through the eye).

That's probably a very bad idea legally unless the other guy has a knife. And i doubt you'll have time to remove the tip in that situation. Or even have a shinai in the first place, but nevermind that.
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>>1041629
>people have died in kendo

Citation pretty seriously needed here.
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>>1043065
I don't have a reputable source, googling a bit has some people saying it happened in Germany to a visiting sensei, but a forum is not a reputable source.
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>>1043069
Yeah. I could see injury from flying splinters, but death seems a bit "let's try to make our sport seem more super cereal"
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>>1043234
Most sports have some casualties from bad hits and accidents
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>>1043248
Most sports aren't thwacking each other with one lb sticks while wearing full body armour.
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>>1043234
I don't know what's so far fetched about a slat sliding through the mask, eye, and brain, and it's not like anybody is saying it to look badass. It mostly seems to be said to justify newbies not being allowed to use tsuki.

>>1043261
Kendo armor is not remotely full though. That said it's rather unlikely that hits outside the armor will kill.
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>>1044318
>kendo armour isn't full

Your head, face, neck, torso and dick are all covered. How much more armour do you need to smack each other with light sticks?
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>>1045041
Well, you still have a portion of your arms, legs and ribs exposed (talking about the front).

Legs are not valid targets, but someone mentioned a broken rib earlier in this thread, someone missed the do, most likely hitting close to the armpit.
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>>1045079
Not exactly lethal areas.
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>>1045345
Yeah, but it is not a full armor.

Not even talking about the back, that has almost no protection, if you count the uwagi, hakama and himos as that. If it's just about "smacking each other with light sticks".
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>>1045605
Yeah, but the original point is that it's impossible to die given the lightness of a shinai and the significance of the armour.
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