>>987595 If you're feeling unsafe you're either neurotic or live in a shithole. The need for self-defense is based entirely on you and can be completely alleviated. If you're not a cunt you won't get into situations where it's necessary and if you don't live in a shithole you won't get into situations where it's necessary.
I'm not saying doimg aikido or wing chun is a sound investment. If your concern is safety there are far more efficient and effective ways to address it.
To answer your question yes, a bjj blue belt would be capable of defending himself in 90% of realistic situations. However, not needing to defend yourself full stop is far smarter. Bjj is fun and good exercise though.
>>987541 >Aside from chokes which specifically use the gi there's no difference aside from meme shit like worm guard and lasso guard
Hahah, no. A lot of the game is different. Grip fighting is a lot different. The Gi can hold some people back in regards to being able to hold onto people in shitty ways (ie not having an underhook, but still having control).
Stand up grappling is very different.
Lots and lots of lapel shit. That shit is very amusing to me. I like to wrap people's arms up in their own lapel.
Lasso guard isn't a meme. I remember my coach showing it in a nogi class. "Yeah, 20 years ago we called this the bicep slicer position". Now they call it lasso guard.
Spider guard, lapel guard, cross grip, DLR guard (pretty gi dependant). All big parts of the BJJ games and certainly not memes.
There is a metric fuck ton of stuff that doesn't work without a gi.
>>987510 My suggestion: Go do Jiu-jitsu. Get at least a legit blue belt. Find that you don't care about street fighting when you can reliably tap 99% of the population. Finish out your life physically secure.
Judo did the Job me. Whenever I get into trouble nowadays I'm not afraid anymore. Not because I would always win, but I know I could hold my own pretty well.
That said, BJJ is definately a good choice, too. You don't that many takedown, but for "street fighting" you don't need to. Just one or two proper takedowns and a bunch of chokes/locks/controlling techniques will get you out of trouble in many situations.
If you add some striking style later on, you'll be a dangerous man you is unfuckable for 95% of all assholes out there.
Picture related, start with one style from the right side (grappling) and add a style from teh left side (striking) after a year and you'll be a tough guy in no time.
>>987538 >assuming xy It depends. What to do in self defense situations always depends on a lot of factors. Generally speaking you want to be able to run away fast in any given situation and being on the ground prevents that.
>>987595 When your goal is self defense you should also keep in mind skill curves and effort. You can throw decent punches to knock someone out after a month of boxing twice a week. After 8-10 sessions of BJJ you'll probably not be able to submit anyone or even know how to take a fight to the ground yet.
>>987595 Your question is like asking whether any art that trains in a go is viable, the answer being yes and it mostly depends on you >>987922 >says to stay away from tmas >lists Muay Thai an art descended from and heavily influenced by a TMA, Muay Boran, which Nak Muays have nothing but respect for and is held as a valid and effective style. Forget what this moron is saying about TMA. TMA`s like full contact Karate are perfectly valid Just watch out for mcdojos of all kinds, both TMAs and MMAs have them. Find a good school of whichever you want to do and do it >http://mcdojo-faq.tripod.com And weight classes exist to make fair fights for contests, not that weight does play a role in fights but weight class is primarily used for that reason: to make fights as fair as possible. The role weight plays can also be nulled and a smaller opponent can have advantages. The main thought for weight classes is about how to make the fight fair, no one's thinking about street fighting. And it's not like open weight tournaments aren't around either. And what are you going to do if some guys bigger than you in an encounter in the street, claim the fights not fair? List the reasons why weight classes exist? If you want to get out safe you have no choice but to beat him and win and escape safely. In the street their will definitely be guys bigger than you and fighting at weight class won't always be an option.
Muay Thai is great and in the ring a Nak Muay will probably kick a boxers ass.
But for pure self defense Boxing is better, because you learn to move the whole time, making yourself a difficult target. This is even more important when facing more than one guy.
Look at this video here:
The guy is constantly moving and changing angles, so the attckers can't surrond him. And whenever someone gets too close he either pushes him back or punches him out, establishing a "safety zone" arround him.
>>988167 >> TMA`s like full contact Karate are perfectly valid
Nope. Karate doesn't spar to the head. What is the main way most people fight on the streets? Flurries of punches to the head.
If you can't practice punches to the head, you're essentially dancing.
>>And weight classes exist to make fair fights for contests
no shit. but there's a reason that no matter how much TKD you teach a 90b 12 year old boy, a 30 year old man that weighs 200 lbs will be able to demolish him 100% of the time
so get your head out of your ass, you've obviously not trained in other arts besides your faggot TMA. Almost every single person I know that has come into Thai boxing from TKD or Karate has discussed how they were bullshit compared to nay form of kickboxing because they don't get hit in the head
Self defense TMAs are a plague on the martial arts community. They'll die out soon enough.
if you wana do krav get some sparring training in as well. Some gyms have MMA krav cross training
all that "self defense" training goes out the window when you're under pressure
so you have to simulate fighting real world pressure to the best of your ability without gouging your eyes out or making yourself infertile from repeated strikes to the groin
but if you learn how to place an oblique kick or a front side kick with absolute precision in a sparring setting (i.e. a trained fighter trying to take your head off) , are you really telling me you wouldn't have the control to move your leg two inches to the right and kick a would be attacker in the groin?
>>988859 >>988856 >street fight This. Dude, if you're ever unfortunate enough to be in a real street fight, you need to knock motherfuckers out quick, because you never know how many you're fighting. And if you are too much of a manlet to generate a knockout, you need to run like the wind. Whatever you do, STAY ON YOUR FEET. In the street, the ground is death.
>>987922 >weight class is a thing This. "Size makes no difference" is the biggest lie in martial arts, and is just something that manlets tell themselves to feel good about their MA. It's better to be realistic and know your limitations.
>>987751 >Spider guard This is why real martial artists don't roll around on the ground. Even judoka and jujitsuka, when they go to nawaza, set the throw up so they can finish it quick. Look at every Rhonda Rousey fight, except the last one, lol.
>>988652 Just because he's a pro MMA trainer doesn't mean everything he says is spot on. I like muay thai better but think boxing would work much better for multiple opponents. They have the quickest and most powerful and accurate hands for dropping the aggressors quickly and really quick footwork compared to muay thai which would make for the best mobility.
>>987729 >If you're fighting someone wearing clothes like a sturdy shirt or, even better, a jacket, then go techniques can still work. I've seen someone use collar chokes on a guy wearing a Dickies t shirt.
as I was getting choked out tonight with my lapel I realized something very ironic Gis are fucking terrible to fight in, seriously whoever decided on using them to fight in is a master troll because there are so many ways for people to kill you with a gi on that just aren't available without one. Like without a gi the entire martial art of judo basically disappears because you lose a lot of the grips and why am I practicing gi jiujitsu? so I can participate in gi jiujitsu matches and then when I have a no gi match 80% of my set ups disappear
>>990627 >Like without a gi the entire martial art of judo basically disappears because you lose a lot of the grips
Modern grappling is all about the innovation. No gi? No problem. Think about your situation logically. Why do you think the people winning the high level MMA/grappling competitions are using modern hybrid jiu jitsu combinations such as greco roman, judo or sambo.
"For every technique in the gi, there is a no gi version." - Barack Obama
>and why am I practicing gi jiujitsu? so I can participate in gi jiujitsu matches I am a blue belt in the gi, and I've had 2 street fights obviously "no gi". Meaning we were both clothed but I didn't go for any grips or chokes via the clothing. I armbarred both guys, people were standing around but no one interfered, but as soon as I had the armbar cranked (both times) everyone ripped us apart before I ripped his arm in half.
>>990627 Practicing with the gi keeps your technique a lot more polished. With the added grips and the friction provided by the gi it's a lot harder to force things and you have to be a lot more mindful of your position and your opponent's actions.
>>990822 >more Judo throws are legal in BJJ than in Olympic Judo that's some serous ironing
I have come to believe through practicing with both classes that judo guys are way better than bjj guys at getting dominant positions because they are used to avoiding pins, the heu wrestlers are comfy going sloth mode and hanging out on the bottom
based on that I would personally want to learn self defense applications of ground fighting from judo guys
>>990822 You are wrong. Gracies say Maeda was a jiujitsu guy that also trained in shoot wrestling styles and thats what he taught the gracies. Then Helio created leverage which allowed the smaller guy to be able to take on a big guy
>>988631 >Nope. Karate doesn't spar to the head. What is the main way most people fight on the streets? Flurries of punches to the head. Yeah, Flurries of shitty ineffective puches to the head and if they do anything else that's shit too, because most dipshits in the streets can't fight. >no shit. but there's a reason that no matter how much TKD you teach a 90b 12 year old boy, a 30 year old man that weighs 200 lbs will be able to demolish him 100% of the time Yeah,that's fucking little kid vs. an adult, of course he's going to lose. This is about adults anyway >so get your head out of your ass, >If you can't practice punches to the head, you're essentially dancing. >you've obviously not trained in other arts besides your faggot TMA. >Self defense TMAs are a plague on the martial arts community I'm not the one with my head up my ass that came in calling people morons, nutriding Muay Thai like it was God's gift to martial arts and self defense and showing the most retarded levels of ignorance by generalizing and calling shit every TMA under the sun. >Almost every single person I know that has come into Thai boxing from TKD or Karate has discussed how they were bullshit compared to nay form of kickboxing because they don't get hit in the head >what are elbows, knees and kicks to the head Sounds like they come from what I warned OP to watch out for, shitty mcdojo's. The dojo's they came from were bullshit, not the martial arts themselves. And holy shit it's like there are more moves than just punches to hit and get hit in the head with. Good schools train punches to the head all the time and TMA's, Karate included has several hand strikes to the head. It's not like strikes in TMA's can't be trained to the head and just becauseyou might not see those strikes, like punches employed in competition doesn't mean they aren't trained in regular practice and sparring. And quit pretending tournaments and formats for head strikes and punches don't exist for TMA's either
>>990879 You astounding retard, Mitsuyo Maeda was a Kodokan dan. The name Judo wasn't initially as widespread and the term Kano Ju-jutsu was used interchangeably, since it really was just the man's approach to the Jujutsu he had learned. That, in turn, deformed into Ju-Jitsu/Jiu-jitsu when romanized and spread in the west. BJJ is an offshoot of Judo.
>>990917 I promise you if the average knockdown karate black belt got locked in a cage with the average street tough the knockdown karate man would win most every time. This gay obsession over "style x versus style y" is very much a sign of those who haven't made it. All of this rationalizing is the sign of a thinker and not a do'er. To talk shit about the Knockdown Karate man like he is nothing tells me you have not felt his punch or his kick or tried to give him same. Possibly never been in any sort of training gym for that matter. Easy to parrot the party line. Harder to live it.
>>990942 >Karate Shinkyokushin Kudo Shotokan to name three >TKD ITF >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab3PWC4T7G0F >Kung Fu: Lei Tai >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpviclkMdfc >Tai Chi >full contact looks like kickboxing and nothing like the traditional art What the fuck do you expect it to look like? For them to do all that arm waving shit you see in movies? It looks the way it does because of rules it's under. What arts don't look slightly similar or preform or are only allowed to do similar movements under similar rules >looks like kickboxing And...It's not. >Aikido >wants head punches >lists grappling
>If 99% of the sparring in a striking martial art is not focused around fighting an attacker that is throwing punches at your head, then you know that MA is useless This again like there's no such thing as kick, elbows or knees along with punching. >then you know that MA is useless This has been proven absolutely wrong. I guess arts like Judo, BJJ, Wrestling are useless then huh? And I didn't know you were the grand arbiter of what martial arts were "useful" or not. Your subjective opinion doesn't even come close to proving any of that. Not only do you have your head up your ass, Your simultaneously pulling complete bullshit out of it as well
>>990942 >If 99% of the sparring in a striking martial art is not focused around fighting an attacker that is throwing punches at your head, then you know that MA is useless but basically 100% of bjj is dealing with people that aren't striking you at all, period.
there are lots of time when there are guys who are way better at bjj than me are winning only by virtue of the fact I'm not allowed to punch them, because if I was allowed to punch them I would be raining hell all over their shit for leaving themselves wide open all day
>X guard >posting on the hip >implying I'm not going to just push your shit in with a thrust kick in real life
>>991130 >thinking is bad, mkay >no such thing as acknowledging the shortcomings of what you do, mkay
Pretty much any martial art you gain proficiency in will be good enough for something like 90% of any dumb punchout you find yourself in, but you sound like the type of retard who'll never actually stop to think about what he does and how he could improve on it.
>>990879 shoot wrestling didn't exist until around the 70s
Maeda was a professional Catch Wrestler. That's how he made his money to live and travel. That's how he met the Gracies. The Gracies owned a circus. Catch Wrestlers perform at circuses.
>>991510 You think you could punch someone in there X-guard? Shows how much you know. They are beating you because you suck. If you are in X-guard you are 3/4 of the way through a sweep and need to be more concerned about your balance and escape position. If you were on "da streetz" in someone's x-guard, you would need to be concerned about landing on your skull on concrete.
>>991779 >Alrlrifgt I didn't see it...And that does absolutely nothing to my point and definitely doesn't prove it false. TMA's are neither a waste of time or useless and your subjective opinion, is not only wrong, but has been proven so, and doesn't prove they are
>>991917 That your mom's age? Damn she had you young then. How many dicks did she ride before you came out? I'll bet she rode the clock rollercoaster instead of the carousel. She even know who your dad is? What am I kidding, of course not and not only that she probably cucked your "real dad" too
>>992390 >begging you to lose weight Im all muscle, I don't have to do shit Knowing today's women, I'll bet your mom's the fatass Your Mom probably begged you to quit being a faggot, but look how well that worked out
>>990917 >Karate fighters do not practice strikes to the head in sparring >what are kicks, elbows and knees. And yes. like in kudo and shinkyokushin punches > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVr6tsSYnq8 >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTnOBmybq38 >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exYXeMkpoCM >because of weight class. the adult has stronger muscles. Its not because of some magical "adult force" that makes an adult stronger than a child: its the adult's weight That was the point and more too it is that it was irrelevant as not only are we talking about adults, it doesn't change the fact that their are no weight classes in the street >I didn't nutride muay thai. >Stay way from: Karate, Taikwondo, Kung Fu, "Self Defense" schools, etc. >TMA fags >you've obviously not trained in other arts besides your faggot TMA. > Self defense TMAs are a plague on the martial arts community. They'll die out soon enough. >Meanwhile, have fun doing your little katas >But karate is a joke, and that's a fact. You nutrided faggot, and pulled bullshit out of your ass about other arts >and that's a fact. No its, not. It's just your shitty and wrong opinion. And so is this >There's a reason karate has a reputation for being shit: because it is And this >meaning that as a whole thai boxing/western boxing/kickboxing > karate for self defence
>sorry to tell you that the years you spent training in karate have been a waste of time And this >TMAs are a joke >I sincerely urge you to spar with a proficient kickboxer to see how weak your hands really are ( assuming you've never trained in a non-TMA style) >to see how weak your hands really are I sincerely urge you to quit pulling bullshit out of your ass and making bullshit assumptions that are not only not true but that you can't back up
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