Lay it on me /asp/ies, how does this taekwondo place look
>Since I'm a student, pretty good price at $95 for 3 months, free uniform included
>Doesn't cost anything to do promotion tests
>According to my seniors in my school's taekwondo club, sparring eventually becomes full contact, once you're intermediate level
>Head instructor seems fairly qualified, former coach for an Olympic taekwondo team
>Affiliated with the WTF, so Olympic style sparring
>No joint locks, grappling, or groundwork
>Might just be my paranoia with money, but the instructor that was there seemed a little pushy with trying to get me to sign up
Thoughts? I know taekwondo is memeish, but I'm a college brat with no experience in unarmed martial arts, and I figured this would give me a good kicking basis, and allow me to defend myself against someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
Here's the website: http://www.cwtkd.com/press/
>allow me to defend myself against someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
You can do this with just about any martial art except Aikido.
But even with Aikido, you'll still learn basic principles of countering.
>What exactly is Olympic style sparring?
In oly TKD you score points for clean hits. You don't stop and reset with each hit, and fancy kicks (spinning, jumping etc.) and kicks to the head score higher than punches (and kicks to the body), so most people don't even bother with punching.
There's nothing particularly wrong with the World Taekwondo Federation, especially in comparison to the alternative of the American Taekwondo Association, and the International Taekwondo Association is basically the result of less Olympic orientation and more geared towards traditional teaching, from what little of it I partook in. Within itself, Tae Kwon Do has very little to no groundwork or grappling outside of what is demonstrated in one-step sparring and self-defense techniques; this is why Hapkido is generally trained in tandem with Tae Kwon Do. Because the WTF is more oriented towards competition, specifically Olympic sparring, forms and board breaking, there's generally no groundwork, grappling or locks demonstrated unless the instructor happens to have knowledge of it from cross training.
From what you say, it honestly doesn't sound too half bad. The price seems too good to be true in my opinion though. $95 covering three months of training? Do you have to abide by a contract signing up for a year or so's worth of training and/or do you have to pay in advance? Maybe the instructor might be coming off as pushy if class attendance is low. I know that, in military towns, it's difficult to keep students for sure. Looking at their promotional video, while the first kicks I saw of the students seemed a smidgeon sloppy (not that I'm a professional or anything), the rest seemed pretty good. They use Korean terminology and instructor, which is always good to hear. They've a very ample amount of equipment, a large place to train and a decent handful of instructors it seems (despite the slightly-biggish class). They seem to check out well, particularly seeing how it took one of them four years to get 1st dan.
Honestly, I think this place is fine, OP, especially if you have zero martial arts background. Obviously it doesn't seem like it's something groundbreaking, but as far as schools in general go, this seems pretty good. Try it out and tell us how it is.
Generally you have two or three rounds per match, ranging from a minute to two and a half minutes per round (all depending on your skill level and what sort of tournament you're attending). Most categories for sparring apply in weight limits, age and belt rank (with 4th dan generally being the uppermost). While not striking limbs, the spine or below the waist, you score points by striking the torso and head - one point for a solid, loud punch or kick, two points for a spinning or reverse kick or and three points for kicking the head (but no punching). Additionally, you are no longer allowed to "check" kicks with your own legs, or in other words, attempt to block an incoming kick with your leg in attempt to counter-attack. In this new age, electronic hogus (chest pieces) detect when they're struck and automatically tally them and whichever opponent has more by the end of the match wins. Generally, at the pace most matches go, opponents typically go for more of an exchange of blows and evading strikes as opposed to blocking them (I lost my first tournament from blocking too much myself). You are confined to a limited space and are deducted points if you leave the arena more than once; you are also deducted points for illegal strikes, failing to abide by referee instruction or failing to engage (you must attempt to make an aggressive movement every ten or so seconds).
Long story short, instead of the aim being to incapacitate your opponent, it's to score points just as you would in a boxing match, although like both, having the opponent unable to continue yields a victory.
>In this new age, electronic hogus (chest pieces) detect when they're struck
Just dropping by to say that using the e-hogus and counting pretty much all connections as equal with them led to some brutally silly shit, namely the rabbit kick as seen in the webm. A spastic hopping heel from the clinch is perfect but a knee? No sir taekwondo don't play like that. Shit's ridiculous.
If you were able to use your legs to block, given that they're your only real offensive tool, you'd have stalled matches as the advantage goes to whoever waits for the kick and checks.
In Muay Thai, you can't do this because if you check and he doesn't kick, or fakes the kick, you can get punished with a punch or low kick. That's not a possibility in Taekwondo, so there'd be basically no way to counter an overly defensive fighter.
I agree that the E-hogus were a fucking joke and have basically removed the point of the hogu to begin with, which was to encourage powerful, penetrating kicks.
Fucking leg fencing bullshit.
I wanna watch somebody's jawbone go flying, not watch two guys straddle each other like they're trying to fuck standing up in the shower.
>cute grill wants me to do tkd
>I just can't get over how fucking stupid and ineffective it is
That's absolutely hilarious and infuriating at the same time. I joke around doing that kick in sparring to be funny, but little to my knowledge was I emulating something professionals do - I say that very tongue and cheek. That's just plain dumb, goodness gracious. I sure hope I have little to do with that nonsense in future tournaments.
>I just can't get over how fucking stupid and ineffective it is
That's a nice meme you have there. Can I borrow it?
Sure, it's not as street-practical as other martial arts, but to go so far as label it as ineffective is rather arbitrary, wouldn't you think?
The problem is worse than that. When the olympics did that to Boxing, the boxers, and the coaches, and the teams, revolted.
They weren't going to go through with the bullshit that every punch, signified by the glove making contact with anything, was equal, and they weren't going to train people for it.
The problem is that Taekwondo, and especially the Republic of Korea, is really, really invested in the olympic financially, and so rather then protesting this shit, and setting up something real on their own, they change their training to suit this shit.
>I sure hope I have little to do with that nonsense in future tournaments.
You shouldn't, unless you get to a 'high' level. WTF TKD reaches it's highest standard in high school and college gyms, with two guys swinging for the fences to take each other's heads off with spinning hook kicks for 4 minutes.
It's still not the most effective striking art out there, but it's worth your time at least.
>Does it actually work in that regard?
Yes, but pretty much everything counters shotokan.
> I'm curious as to why he decided to focus on kicks when making his art.
Among other things, the kick emphasis was native to Korean martial arts even before Taekwondo. While there's very little evidence of direct continuity to Taekkyon, Taekkyon matches were basically trying to knock each other around around with Teeps. Hapkido also has a weird emphasis on leg techniques, some of which don't even show up in TKD.
After that, I suspect it was a combination of flashy kicks selling the McDojo practices, and the fact that it was a niche that could define themselves in, especially against Japan (and pretty much everything in Korea is about defining themselves against Japan).
This is bullshit. The first schools that would eventually form taekwondo were primarily led by koreans that had lived in Japan and studied karate, mostly Shotokan, by their own free will. There were a few that had other influences like undefined undefined styles of chinese martial arts or other schools of karate, and nowadays a lot is said about connections to Taekkyon and other extinct korean martial arts, but Shotokan was definitely the main parent art. They were unified into Taekwondo by government action and the efforts of General Choi Hong Hi, though what degree of influence he really had is debatable.
What's known is that there was a big push from the government to band all these schools under a single banner, for the cultural reason of having a martial art that could be called Korean as a sort of symbol of the country's strength after the japanese occupation and also because having control of institutions that'd teach martial arts to the populace gave the state an extra degree of monopoly on force. China's attempt to erradicate then completely control martial arts was a similar situation.
As for the kick focus, pretty much what >>956732 said.
There's very little evidence of a link to Taekkyon but it's likely that Choi or others were eventually introduced in some way to the near-extinct style (it had been practically wiped out during the japanese occupation), saw it had a lot of kicks and went with it. The rest is definitely trying to commercialize and appeal to a larger audience while separating themselves from karate.
It's pretty bad. A lot's said about it having fist and elbow techniques and takedowns and throws and headbutts along with its kicks but the actual practice is garbage, a variant of foot fencing. There's some standup grappling and it allows low kicks but after that any and all hand strikes are forbidden and you have the addition of forced triangular footwork kinda like the capoeira ginga but more subdued. You can only score by tripping or throwing the other guy to the ground, pushing them out of the ring or kicking them in the head.
Ever since it was declared as an intangible cultural asset by the korean government it's been spread around all over the place because of course it has, this is Korea we're talking about. Add to that how it's often promoted for having pressure point techniques and it just winds up looking like Korea narrowly rescued one of its legitimate martial arts from extinction only to drain it of martial application and turn it into some sort of cultural spectacle.
I don't know if this is better or worse than OTKD, but I sure as hell know it wouldn't be my first choice for practice. Hell if I'm gonna do something dancy I'll go with Capoeira since it actually looks cool.
There's some people who have a style called Taekkyon, but that's a reconstruction at best. It's dead, and was dying before the Japanese showed up. We have very few sources on the original, actually.
If you only want to watch one, watch the first. I don't think Taekwondo is total garbage but it sure as hell isn't as effective and well-rounded a base as Muay Thai. It's a good supplementary art, fantastic for developing your kicks, but in kickboxing or MMA, MT takes priority.
I agree with you, excluding calling Muay Thai well rounded. It's street smart and practical in a scrap, particularly close-quarters, but it isn't any more well rounded as Tae Kwon Do. It trumps TKD because its kicks and strikes are more practical in most fights, but unless you mean to tell me Muay Thai also teaches throws and ground-wrestling, outside of learning BJJ or Judo, I wouldn't jump the gun and say it's "well rounded" like Krav Maga or Karate.
You just have to use Taekwondo the right way.
You need to use Taekwondo like you would use it against a Muay Thai practitioner, not use Taekwondo against a Muay Thai practitioner like you would use Taekwondo against a Taekwondo practitioner.
Taekwondo almost exclusively practices kicks above the waist, forbids elbows, knees, punches to the face and clinchwork in competition. Muay Thai allows kicks to the legs, punches to the head and is famous for its elbow and knee techniques as well as the effectiveness of its clinch fighting. High level nak muay are also prone to throwing and sweeping opponents off the clinch and blocked or missed kicks, and do so quite well even if it's not as much of a focus as in Sanshou/Sanda. So yes, I think Muay Thai is much more well rounded than Taekwondo.
I love reading the comments in matches involving two country's martial arts. There'll always be fanboys from the losing country declaring the other cheated.
Just sayin', but I'm pretty sure not allowing kicks below the waist in tournaments doesn't mean kicks below the waist certainly aren't taught. Also, strikes with elbows and to the head are most certainly taught, both in sparring forms as well as belt forms.
I think you're more well rounded in general.
Get it? I called ya fat!
>no we totally do these things, they're in the forms you see
>we just don't actually apply them in the competition format we follow
>also you're fat
Well I was kidding about the fat part. I'm sorry.
We do forms in tournaments, and the forms have the strikes. Are there Muay Thai tournaments that allow knees and elbows to the face? I'd assume so. That seems quite scary.
Not that anon, but amateur (including MMA) doesn't allow knees to the head or any elbows in any of the cards I've fought on or worked.
Kyokushin does allow elbows to the body (both in training and competition when I was training Kyo) so there's that.
Actual Muay Thai events, including amateur ones, typically allow for knees and elbows to the head. Amateurs usually require pads. Muay Thai in Thailand is trained for pro bouts, which allow and even encourage elbows and knees to the head thanks to the scoring system. Elbows are typically banned in K1/oriental rules kickboxing which also limit clinchwork for knees. Amateur MMA rules as promoted by FILA also ban elbows to the head, but they also ban hammerfists and slams as submission defenses, all for safety reasons.
The events I've fought in and worked have usually been billed as "K1 Rules".
I've not seen any promotions (acquaintances with a few pro+ammy MMA and kickboxing promoters) for anything amateur that allows knees to the head or elbows at all.
Yeah K1 rules are a lot more common because the big international kickboxing companies use them and they're seen as safer for fighters. Hell MMA in Japan completely forbid elbows for safety reasons despite allowing a ton of dangerous shit like kicking or stomping a downed opponent on the head, that should give you an idea of how dangerous elbows are seen as. But actual Muay Thai uses elbows and knees, they're an integral part of the discipline.
Past tense nigga. Also
>implying any japmma other than PRIDE is worth talking about
Pancrase and Shooto might both predate the UFC but their talent pool is hilariously shallow and their viewership is minuscule, while Deep has always been a b-tier feeder territory at best. The only reason Shooto gets any sort of respect is because it has an amateur league and schools in all of Japan's prefectures so it's usually the best way for young athletes interested in MMA to start practicing and competing.
Tkd is honestly in my own personal experience for children to get into to ease themselves into more tougher combating sports like boxing
> I train boxing at home
> used to go to the gym
> I was Allright but wasn't a fan of the gym
> it's best to learn a skill then practice it in a more comfortable environment
A lot of people miss the idea of TKD, the main focus of it
There are people who do TKD for hand techniques, for the grappling, yes.
But i want you to listen to every critisism of TKD and apply it to boxing
"Boxing doesn't work on the streets"
Well no, boxing punches will break your hand. Re - Hairfracture, you need to fight different
>boxing doesn't cover grappling/kicks
Well no, it's about focusing on hands and moving.
Same with TKD. Every day you make yourself "well rounded" is a day you practice swinging a long sword
yeah, it's a lot more practical for real combat (swords have been in almost every culture! It's easier to get and own then a gun in some places )
But it won't help you accel in your sport.
and in TKD, that's the olympics.
Boxing is honestly, in my personal experience, for children to get to ease themselves into more complex, and more difficult to understand, combat sports like MMA.
Boxing is like the first things you learn in elementary school prepare you for middle school, and eventually, high school.
Correction someone with average hand bones might break there hands any martial artist knows you have to train and condition something before using it in a real fight
You can easaly break someone's nose by punching them in the face
>train and condition something
Yeah i punched a steel beam for five years, i know more about conditioning then you do, trust me
And no, it's just a zero-sum gain. How many opponents do you need to defeat before you'll accept a injury that could hinder you for the rest of your life?
Compare the risk against kicking him, or body punching, or elbows, or wrist striking, or knees, or ANYTHING but punching without protection
And yeah, a nose is a possible target, if you have really good control and he doesn't move 3 cm so you hit his cheekbone and shatter your knuckle.
Legit, i've punched people in the face with the TKD guards on (between bare knuckle and light mma gloves) and i do not want to even do THAT again.
But ironically, your kicks won't be up to TKD caliber.
the pains of specialization.
But you can learn MMA anywhere. you can only learn true TKD kick mastery competing in the WTF
You mean like this?
Who the fuck reported or deleted my post?
>I've got plenty of pubic hair