>>910960 Savate is a lot flashier, that's true. I'm from Germany and our fighters in the kickboxing gym I visit fought often against French fighters. They kick a lot and box rarely, even under K1 or Muay Thai rules. Savate is the reason for this.
>>910813 I trained it for about 5 years, the most fun I ever had in training martial arts, very technical, made me a better fighter overall, made me reevaluate my mindset towards fighting sports and martial arts.
Savate was"invented" by french sailors who learned bokator (the Cambodian version of Muay Thai) on their trips. Later is became very popular among doormen in various french cities. It is said than the bouncers in the red light districts had spring knifes hidden in their shoes which they used for stabbing people with their kicks (savate kicks are very much about precision).
Generally the term "Savate" is somehow misleading, because there are different styles that are called savate: -The traditional Savate which includes stuff like stick fighting (canne de combat) and "old school JuJitsu" grips. -The modern self defense oriented variant which similar to Krav Maga (for example you preferrably use lowkicks here) -The Sport Savate
The sport version is like a mixture of Muay Thai and Tae Kwon Do. Savate is very unique because you fight with boots. The rank of the practicioner is indicated by the colour of the glove you wear.
Savate has only a small set of kicks and punches (like Muay Thai), but uses precision and complex counter strategies rather (like TKD) than raw power. Think of it like a simpler version of TKD with boxing. You are not allowed to use kicks with the shin or knee strikes.
Savate fighters have a lot of "fighting intelligence" but the practitioners sometimes have problems when fighting against simpler "raw power styles" like MT or Kyokushin. Of course you can do it like Gerard Gordeau and train them as combination (Gordeau is a former World Champion of Savate and was holding the Dutch Champion Kyokushin Karate title for 8 consecutive years). Then you'would be quite a monster.
>>920084 >simple TKD with (i'm gonna assume simple) boxing
With respect, this is right. TKD is deeper with kicks, more in depth technique and gameplay, but savate is still eons more technical then the other styles of kickboxing save STX (which has...tkd for kicks. Yeah. Eric Paulson is TKD BB)
I could do savate (assuming boxing is non existant), but i'd get in trouble for a lot of my techniques, which are not in savate but related to their techniques, but more advanced (example, 540 backwheel kick/Jump bwheel), that are against the rules in savate because only certain historical techniques are allowed, like in boxing
That's the biggest problem with it. TKD evolves, like how it developed the ax kick and cut kick and modern TKD clinch game. Savate, by the rules, can't change techniques, and can't use more punching then kicks.
It's very technical, but it's limited. that's the only downside. Do some TKD after savate to see what i mean.
BTW, just saying, i don't know about savate, but honestly, doing 50 TKD RH's is way more tiring then doing 50 MT RH's . If savate is the same way, then they can also out condition kickboxers, because of the higher pace kick based combat they have.
I don't know any savate guys who got into TKD sadly, i bet they'd be good at first before their reliance on punches to the head becomes apparent.
I really enjoy Savate, I've been doing for 4 years now under one of Prof salem Assli's students. I will concede that as a style unto itself there are some things it lacks, but I think it's a great compliment to many other striking styles. Savate wants you to move and change ranges and be elusive. The footwork and balance it requires are useful to most anything else.
>>923816 Savate being stuck is largely a matter of who you're training with and why you're training. In the US Salem Assli is one of the more well known Savate instructors. He's an associate of Dan Inosanto, and keeping with JKD theme has been working to adapt some techniques to MMA.
>>920084 Savate has a large variety of kicks chief.
>>923816 Pretty much all of the kicks used in STX kickboxing can be found in Savate or Muay Thai. I think I've seen him do something specifically from TKD two times.
>>923816 I don't think you understand how to do a Muay Thai Round kick. They are extremely tiring, much more so than snapping round kick. I believe this is due to more of your weight being thrown into the kicks. It takes a lot more to decelerate the kick than the TKD style.
Both styles of kicks are fine, but it depends on how you are using them and what you are hitting with them (also shoes, Savate shoes make them far more effective).
I also really doubt there is a rule about only using "historical kicks". The crescent kick is a somewhat recent introduction to the sport. (Mentioned in one of the videos below)
TKDbrah, unintentionally shit-posting as always.
Also, here you go:
These are 9 40 minutes+ Savate instructional videos. You can skip the first one I link too as it is all stretching. Techniques start on the next video. Good stuff.
>>925027 Whip kick seems to be what they had already been using. It was present along with crescent kick.
The Muay Thai round kick is not clumsy. Let me try to re-explain. I'm not sure what it is about TKD people, maybe they have been brainwashed while being molested by their sensi...but they do not accept criticism of their art.
In Muay Thai, the round kick. you kick through with your entire body. The power all comes from the hips. This creates more force which needs to be controlled which in turn is more tiring.
In TKD, your turn your body and the body stops, and you snap. Power is still transferred from the hips rotating to the snap, but the body movement effectively halts where in a MT kick, you keep going. There is less force being generating, although it does have other advantaged depending on the situation.
>>925069 Honestly, if you hit through a paper target with both kicks, the difference is that the TKD kick would stop right after the target (about 12-18% after it) and MT would swing completely though it
The difference being that the quadracept is in the perfect postition during the TKD kick, with all the weight of the body behind it, while in the MT kick you hit with a larger surface in the center of the range of motion, being less advantegeous but more useful in combat where points are given to blocked kicks.
I say it's clumsy because in TKD it's different, but more or less similar, to kick to the body, while in MT they use the instep to kick the head anyway (and do it like bad karate guys),
in TKD i can hit targets the size of a pin with my RH.
Furthermore, you'll notice the TKD RH is faster, both in terms of total completion time (plus recovery) and distance traveled / time (larger flight path covered faster with more acceleration). Unless you argue that the TKD RH is THAT more efficent (it is, but that's another day), you can't deny that more energy is used to move for the TKD kick then the MT kick.
>>925263 In MT you do not use the instep to kick the head, you use the bottom of the shin.
Again, I use both kicking styles and your information is just factually incorrect.
Hitting with the shin over the instep provides a clear advantage in transfer of force. While kick may hit with more surface area (not necessarily, depending on the style of kick and target) than the instep, it is a much more rigid surface than the instep, leading to less loss of energy in the transfer.
Basic physics. It's also super simple to demonstrate by kicking someone in the leg with both styles of kicks.
>>934742 >know they're technically breaking the rules I don't know these fighters, could you give me a summary of how they technically break the rules but, I assume, don't generally get in trouble for it?
>>934691 >>934742 Is that you, Just Bleed Guy? Do you continue to be the worst stereotypes of the MMA fanbase?
>>935931 You assume wrong. Rousimar Palhares has been fired from the UFC and suspended indefinitely from World Series of Fighting for cranking submission holds well past after his opponent has tapped and the ref is trying to pull them off. The vice president of WSoF has outright said the guy has mental issues and will not fight there until he sorts them out.
Gerard Gourdeau got away with that shit because his career was in the very early days where there were no weight classes and shit just wasn't as well-managed as it is nowadays. He actually legit blinded japanese fighter Yuki Nakai in one eye from intentional eye-gouging.
To make the story somewhat more inspirational and steer away from Gordeau, Nakai actually beat him by submission, went on to beat a wrestler and former marine that had a 100 pound weight advantage and managed to fend off Rickson Gracie for six minutes while practically blind from his one good eye being swolen shut. He then went on to hide his blindness for years to protect the reputation of mixed martial arts from the overly sensitive japanese public.
Jon Jones hasn't broken a single rule, he's just more than willing to use techniques that many feel are comparativly dangerous to fighter longevity, such as straight kicks to the legs looking to make the knee bend backwards or when he tore out Glover Teixeira's shoulder out of his socket without giving him a chance to tap, something grappling wizard Shinya Aoki also did by destroying a dude's elbow with a Judo winding armlock.
>>924965 >TKDbrah, unintentionally shit-posting as always. >Implying he's not a masterful shitposter >Implying he doesn't perfectly manipulate the "TKD is garbage" mentality >Implying he doesn't perfectly imitate the "my style is the best" attitude
>>910813 its like kickbox. the only difference is that in savate most fights are won on points or are stopped by the judge with no real reason. also no real training other than regular boxing is required for it. saw guys destroy savate "fighters" without ever lifting their feet higher than an inch from the ground.
>>941471 Oh yeah, want to add, the reason "Sport Krotty" and point stop fighters build up bad habits isn't because they don't make hard contact (TKD makes hard contact most of the time and they still build up a few bad habits), it's because they start to rely on things that work in point stop fighting (or TKD continuous point) that don't work in a real fight.
For example, in "Sporty Krotty" you can do a jumping back fist and score a point, you can throw kicks or strikes and use footwork that puts you in a bad place after you throw it but because you hit you get to reset.
With TKD it's mostly guys keeping their hands down when they're in striking range as a bad habit.
According to a French martial artist I know: Savate is more of an umbrella term. The ring sport you'll hear and see advertised in France as Boxe Francaise. Savate tends to have the connotation of the "original" form of the art which had cane and staff fighting mixed in as well as a little bit of grappling.
>>948817 Someone else already mentioned this, but Salem Assli is pretty much the only Savate instructor that travels around the US. He's a friend of Dan Inosanto. If you look for Inosanto JKD schools, you'll sometimes find one that offers savate.
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