Kendo thread. How long have you been at it?
I've been thinking about starting iaido along with kendo lately. Does anyone else do both, and have you noticed elements from one seeping into the other? Also, I recently moved to Boston, so if anyone knows any good dojo around there, that'd be cool.
Used to do kendo. Took a break for personal reasons, and didn't return because the culture around it was very "if you don't make kendo your number one priority then we can't respect you." Maybe it was just the dojos in my area though, or maybe I'm just a pansy.
Totally worth it despite that though. Maybe it'll be your thing, if you try it, and if it is you'll have lifelong friends around a hobby that makes you mentally and physically fitter. Look/Ask around and see if they have any beginner courses- It's their main influx of new kendokas so I'd be surprised if there aren't any. Don't be afraid to leave if you feel like you've given it a proper try and still don't like it. And take care of your calves.
I'm not sure if I really can, it's just extremely fun to me. When I started out, I actually didn't have a lot of interest in it, but I stuck with it for a while and now it's one of my main hobbies. Probably doesn't help that my main board is /a/ and I have a fetish for nippon swordsmanship. I'd suggest what the other anon said and see if you can try a beginner course.
That's a bit odd. I've been doing it for 6-7 years and haven't run into any such problems. I guess if you were competing at a higher level that mindset might be more common, but I'm going to say it's just the dojos in your area.
> muh kendolt sdicks
Kendo sticks are gay, give me a chair anyday
There are different kinds of iaido.
first there is seitei iaido, a standardized set of solo techniques under the auspices of the kendo federation. Then there are independent schools of iaido, like einshin ryu, which is mostly solo work but retains some paired mateiral. many of these schools have deep ties with the kendo federation, but some do not.
Then there are koryu schools that have iaijutsu in the curriculum, these schools tend to be more concerned with how it would actually be done in a fight and often iaijutsu is only a side practice for them.
finally there are schools like nakamura ryu and toyama ryu that practice battojutsu developed from the sword system practiced by the Japanese army. They are also mostly solo work but they think of themselves as more practical than iaido schools and the kendo fed iaido.
There are koryu in most major cities in the US, though not all koryu have iaijutsu as part of their curriculum also alot in Europe. iaido and schools like Eishin ryu are more common.
a note of caution, schools not affiliated with the kendo reimei do not use standard terminology. many use terms like iaido and iaijutsu interchangeably. iaido schools like Eishin ryu can often be categorized as koryu, because they do meet the basic criteria of being old enough, though there practice tends to be different that other koryu.
ebudo and the list on koryu.com are probably the best places to find information and listings of koryu groups in the west.
ebudo also has alot on the differences between groups
I'm sort of interested in trying kendo out, but I'm not really sure if I've got a heap of misconceptions about what it's actually like, and thus will be left disappointed.
There are a series of beginners courses coming up in a while near where I live so maybe I'll try those out and see how it goes.
Can I ask what you mean by take care of your calves? Is there a lot of stress placed on the calves during training, something you have to account for lest you get injured?
Thinking about trying iaido, would any anons know enough to help me choose a dojo? Right now I have these two which look fairly decent.
They are both doing einshin ryu, I dont know enough to say which line is better. If your also interested in kendo then doshikai would be better, otherwise I would check each out to see who is better, or just pick whoever is most convenient
I'm not entirely sure to be honest. Something I can do for fun, for some additional fitness to my current workouts, something that has a group or club environment. I did a little fencing a long time ago, but have switched locations, saw kendo and was interested. It seems like a martial art without the same brawling as say muay thai, nothing against muay thai practitioners, and as I don't really care about 'practicality' or use in a fight, just people and atmosphere, I thought it might be a good fit.
I did kendo for about a year and a half in college but looking back I don't really know how much I actually enjoyed it. The club was run pretty poorly and a couple of people would ruin practice by doing shit like intentionally knocking beginners to the ground or mocking people at a lower skill than them.
Sounds pretty shitty. Sorry you didn't have a good time.
I'm trying to start a club at my college, but it's tough finding people who are interested/have the experience to help me run one.
Eh, they'll teach you what you need to know and giving you tips right now when you don't know anything might be bad. Keep in mind that you don't need a death grip on your shinai though, and don't worry about putting power into your swings for now. You don't need to worry about endurance, as long as you're decently in shape you'll be fine.
How long did it take other people to start using bogu? My school let me do it about 2 months in, but I'm not sure what the standard is.
I'll be heading in to my local dojo to observe a class and hopefully be able to join.
What should I expect/not expect? I'm not too sure what there is to learn, my dad did kendo when he was younger and gave me his shinai but he did it in Canada sometime in the 80's I believe so it is probably somewhat different now.
Shinai haven't changed much since they started being used in the 1800s and Kendo practice hasn't changed at all pretty much since the post-war reestablishment in 1950. The Japanese are very very conservative.
I would question the condition of a 30+ year old shinai though.
I meant more like since there's the AUSKF and CKF maybe there's a difference between that. I should've figured that Kendo is pretty much the same throughout the years because like you said they're conservative as fuck.
here's a picture of them
yeah I figured as much, since you're always on your feet and your hands are always being used.
Well specifically your achilles tendon, depending on how much of a foot-arch you have. If you have relatively flat feet, all the power from your footwork will come from your calves. If you have normal human feet, less so, but your achilles tendon will take a lot of the stress. Just make sure to stretch them out after, and maybe pick up jogging to strengthen them. Probably one of the most common injuries in the sport.
bumping this thread with a great resource for kendo and japanese sword stuff.
I'm considering trying kendo as a fun supplement to HEMA. Would it be good to use a resource like http://kendo-for-life.com/ beforehand to get the basics and solo drills down in order to progress to partner/bogu practice faster?
Looks good, they look like legit shinai but you might want to take it apart and have a better look and also go over it with oil and sand paper the edges. Here is a good vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyJNAluiOKY there are also documents which might be easier to follow for the knots.
Also a very good source: http://www.kendo-guide.com/
If by fun you mean rigid, repetitive and near ritualistic practice then yeah I love Zen Buddhism but seriously prepare yourself for some fairly non-sportslike, very traditional practice and training.
Maybe read through to get an idea of how things are run and etiquette stuff because it can be very daunting and very unfamiliar especially if you haven't done "traditional" martial arts before. I definitely wouldn't do practice until you get some instruction in person to start with.
Right, thanks for the information. I'm already running and rowing a bit with a decent amount of attention paid to how everything is holding up including ankles and knees, hopefully that'll mean they're conditioned enough.
So I've hit a somewhat stagnant point. In terms of pure, physical speed and reactions, I've hit my peak, or come close to it. However, now that that's the case, I'm starting to realize I may have relied on that too much throughout my training. I'm having trouble "seeing" my opponent and being able to "read" them to use preemptive techniques like suriage-men, etc. How should I stop relying purely on my basic, physical style and try to take it to the next level?
On another note, any of you ever sparred with a naginata user? I feel like the third guy in this video shows pretty well how scary a good one can be. Makes me want to practice with one.
>On another note, any of you ever sparred with a naginata user?
Some of my friend sparred with them and they said that you have to stand in gedan-no-kamae to defend your legs because they can hit you in suneate with naginata. Their biggest advantage is distance because naginata is obviously longer than shinai. But if you get close to them or do taiatari/tsuba-zeriai you can easily do a hiki men or kote. That's all I know because only 2-4 pepole do naginata-do in Poland.
Iv always thought kendo looked cool as fuck. I'd imagine it's expensive tho. Sword fighting isn't a major fighting art anymore so it's put on the back burner. Still cool tho.
I'd rather just be trained in hand to hand combat and guns personally. You pull and knife I'll pull a gun. You wanna hand to hand I'll do my best to control the situation.
So I realized that my school is moderated by the EUSKF, and not the AUSKF. Will other schools still recognize my rank or whatever?
Pretty cool to see that kendo really hasn't changed that much over the years.
Is there a school of Japanese swordsmanship that is more like HEMA? Like historical Japanese Martial Arts. I don't want to do Kendo because it is too sportified.
What direction should I go in to get a more historicaly accurate skillset?
the arts that were actually practiced by Samurai are called "koryu" which means old school (literally "old flow") Several exist and are availible in the US and Europe.
That said they are quite different in than Hema. The primary training method is kata keiko. two man forms that start slow and get increasingly intense as you advance.
Many, though not all, do not practice free sparring in the manner hema does, though a great number pressure test their curriculum to some extent or another.
If your interested. koryu.com and ebudo are the best places to locate a school in the west
If you're still waiting for an answer I'll try.
>I'm having trouble "seeing" my opponent and being able to "read" them
Basically you don't want to read/predict your opponent, but rather attempt to force them to do what you want, i.e seme. I'm not sure what level you're at, or how much you've thought about tactics, but the dvd-set >>878305 linked is great explaining what technique to use against what opponent and how to draw him into attacking you (for executing oji-waza). It's four parts, the first ones are pretty basic but the third and fourth one cover pretty advanced stuff. Highly recommended, it has improved my kendo a lot.
>any of you ever sparred with a naginata user?
Once, a friendly match at the lunch pause for a competition. Very confusing experience, I got points for strikes that were, in my opinion, pretty ugly, but not for perfect ones. Apparently they have a slightly different scoring system. Really fun though, nice to actually get a use for katate-strikes.
Longer reach than regular strikes, and you actually don't need to got to jodan for katate, you can do it as a katsugi-strike where you let go of one hand. If you combine it with tsugi ashi you get a pretty sick reach.
Could you be more specific? What are you having trouble with specifically? And what level are you at? The advice will differ a lot based on these questions. If you already know the basics but want to get it useful in shiai here are a couple of points to consider:
- The end of your waza should have your hands in a position for a cut, i.e. you left hand open and ready to close
- For down-to-up harai, execute the harai IN your fumikomi, not before. Begin you cut as you commit to the strike, but do the waza before.
- For cutting harai, think of it as a ni-dan-waza where you strike down upon the opponents kote, but from the omote-side, rather than striking the shinai. The main points will be quick footwork, using you left hand properly and timing, i.e. striking when you opponent is unprepared.
- rilakusu, you should have tension in your abdomen and legs, not in your upper arms. "Trying easy" instead of trying hard works surprisingly often.
I regularly confuse the terminology of what maki means, but maki-seme, i.e. when you roll around the opponents shinai without touching it, is used all the time. One example:
For the "disarming" maki, pretty rare, but I have seen it a couple of times. Also depends on what you mean by "higher", unless you plan to win the world championship, "crazy" waza can be really useful for shocking your opponent. Just don't do them to often.
Bearing in mind that I'm not world-level, on the top of my head:
Rare, but seen once or twice
- Disarming maki
- Katate-men from chudan-players
Never seen at high-level
- The down-to-up version of harai on the omote-side
- Regular do that's not an oji-waza
- Large nuki-men, i.e. lifting the shinai over your head version
Never seen in a match
- Any oji-waza against do.
- Katate-kote from chudan-players
- Any waza before tsuki, this one might just be because most people suck at tsuki though
Honestly, there aren't that many truly non-viable techniques that I can think of, it all depends on your opponent. Techniques that will work great on one opponent will be useless against an other. Rather than thinking about what waza are viable, I find it more productive to think about what waza would work against a certain opponent, and then you start with the ones that work on the most opponents and work your way down.
Also I just remembered I was wrong. The disarming maki is actually pretty common when separating from tsuba zeriai, you see it pretty often at top levels.
I think it's done here, but I don't have time to look through it right now. But it's worth a watch regardless, really impressive stuff.
Remembered another good info source, while you wait a week for the Hidekatsu Inoue-dvd's to download, read through this
It doesn't give you much explicit advice but provides a sound way of thinking about tactics.
I'm ungraded. The sensei has been focusing on mostly harai-men and hiki-men along with some kirikaeshi and just men, kote-men.
I'm having trouble hitting the motodachi shinai and actually breaking their seme as well as in jigeiko. I think I might be hitting on the wrong part, angle or direction of momentum.
The downward one is striking directly downward with the shinai at a slight angle to the left hitting the middle of the shinai?
Then upward is directly downward with a slight angle to the right?
and diagonal kote one is shinai on left side striking diagonally up without much change in shinai angle?
When ever I do it it just doesn't seem to do much. They just go very slightly off center then naturally spring back before I can really men cut. Maybe I'm just too weak at the moment.
There wasn't a maki waza in there from what I saw, but that was a really good video. 2nd to last challenger was fast as fuck.
If you look at it in slowmo you can see that it's a twisting movement rather than a regular uchi-otoshi. And that kote so freaking cheeky, I can't believe he managed to do it, not once, but twice.
>They just go very slightly off center then naturally spring back before I can really men cut
By the sound of it, the problem is that your men-cut is too slow rather than your harai being too weak. It's actually very rare that techniques work "as-is" without changing them in some unexpected way to surprise the opponent, but you need to learn the basics before you can use them as feints. For now just be patient and practice, if you're doing something wrong your sensei will tell you, trying to do too much too early will just lead to poor technique. In ji-geiko, focus on doing the technique right, despite being under pressure, rather than winning. Not only will it help you with your technique, it'll train you to keep calm during real matches. Good luck mate!
I will mention duels with boken use to be a somewhat common thing in kenjutsu styles. It was not unusual to continue until someone gave up or could no longer fight. my understanding is the practiced ceased when the japanese goverment banned it in the late sixties
how would you describe kendo where you train? is it pretty much straight kendo? any talk of the connection with iaido or koryu?
my impression has always been American kendo tends to be less sport focused simply because its an adult activity here
my kendo sensei teaches only kendo, as in sports kendo. he was very competitive when he was younger and went to two wkc.
but if you want to you an pratice iaido, as i do. i pratice muso shinden ryu and will try to get my nidan in july
1dan - 6months after 1st kyu
2dan - 1 year after 1 dan
3dan - 2 years after 2 dan
4dan - 3 years after 3rd dan
also, you have to pass through a national board to get your dans, it is not something your own sensei award
Sorry, what's the usual time for 1st kyu? I was taught at a kumdo dojo (it's affiliated with FIK though, so it's ranks are recognized), which used a somewhat different ranking system, so I'm curious as to how they compare.