Arts like Karate, Muy Tai, Boxing , Wing Chun , are very hard aggressive styles wouldn't do good against more than 3 ppl unless you've been ding them for over like 128374 years to perfectly master. not as practical as Aikido , Jow Ga , Ju Jitsu and ninjitsu witch are very easy to put into application fast and full of techniques that can be applied to various ppl at a time (not saying the others are bad , just saying that the others have more practical applications)
>>858521 serious, I've studied many different styles (Jack of all trades master of some) and some do better for sport (karate) some are sport but have allot of real world applications (boxing) but a boxing master can't go against 5 people with the same efficiency as an Aikido master can
I have been a practitioner of Hokuto Shin Ken. For those who are wondering the art's power lies into channeling one's energy in a single blow and striking into the 708 Hidden Channeling Points points in the human body (also known as acupressure points, power points, vital points, tsubo, etc.). I have once fought a guy hurling dynamite and come out unscathed.
Wrestling beats most other martial arts alone in my experience. You, don't even need to be good at it to beat 90% of people. I remember when people used to fuck with me in high school I just hip-tossed them, and then that fight was over. It's also very very good for cardiovascular and flexibility training, and decent for strength training.
Boxing has amazing footwork and is the best (unarmed) martial art for fighting off serveral people. There are lots of videos of boxers knocking down three people in a row.
Aikido on the other hand has bad training methods (no sparring, no punching defense) and takedowns that come from a cultural context of people fighting with armour. While they the basic principles of Aikido are valid they will NOT work against a trained martial artist because it's unbelievable hard to throw someone with something like a wristlock.
Ironically enough, a wristlock takedown is difficult (but sometimes doable) in sparring, if you have something to grab like boxing gloves - basically you trap his hand between your guard and twist. But against someone without gloves, fast moving hands, slippery from sweat? Near impossible.
As someone who trains in Kyokushin I'd really like to believe that. But even after a lot of reasearch I haven't found a single story of a Kyokushin guy who got into fights - wether on the winning or on the losing end. Are Karate guys just nice guys who don't get into fights?
So if you have any proof to back up that claim, I'd really really like to hear it. Or is it just your opinion you are talking about?
>>859383 >So if you have any proof to back up that claim, I'd really really like to hear it. Think about Japanese culture for a little while. Do you think such a poetic and noble people would let their people cause trouble left and right?
>>859440 >Japanese people are as good or bad as people on every other part of the world. You have nice people, you have assholes, you have racism, you have organized crime.. >culture and societal structure has nothing to do with behavior It's like you've never gone to school a single day of your life.
If you look at international large scale studies you'll always find that the intra-cultural differences (differences of people within a culture or nation) are much bigger than the inter-cultural differences (two random persons from each country or culture).
BTW that's one of the reasons racism is actually such an absurd thing..
But don't bother, most people think that nationality is important. But that's why science is so damn usefull: we can base our knowledge on facts and not on stereotypes and biases.
>In contrast to the structure of personality, the comparison of the mean trait scores across cultures is much more problematic because cross–cultural differences turned out to be very small in their magnitude, about one–third of the magnitude of individual differences within culture.
>Results showed that age and gender differences resembled those found in American samples >However, mean trait levels were not apparent to expert raters, casting doubt on the accuracy of national stereotypes.
So there's really no doubt about that the image of Japanese guys being better/worse/differnt than US guys is wrong. Cultural norms are a nother story, but the people are generally just people.
>>859383 >As someone who trains in Kyokushin I'd really like to believe that. But even after a lot of reasearch I haven't found a single story of a Kyokushin guy who got into fights - wether on the winning or on the losing end. Are Karate guys just nice guys who don't get into fights? >Who were the Pechin >Who is Masutatsu Oyama >What are 100 and 300 man kumite's >What is bareknuckle/fullcontact Karate >Who is Andy Hug Karatekas fight a shitton
I meant street fights and brawls. Not kumite. I also wasn't asking about historical fighters (Oyama or ancient Okinawa warrirors) or if Andy Hug would have heel kick'd me to death (he probably would have).
No, I was asking about contemporary "everyday" people like you and me.
The other guy was claiming that Kyokushin Karate "does a lot better in real world applications than Boxing" and I am genuinely interested if this is true or not.
Don't get me wrong, I'm loving Kyokushin and I'm not doing it to be a brawler, but I just can't seem to find any evidence of Kyokushin in street fights whatsoever.
>>859824 >I meant street fights and brawls. Not kumite. I also wasn't asking about historical fighters (Oyama or ancient Okinawa warrirors) or if Andy Hug would have heel kick'd me to death (he probably would have).
>No, I was asking about contemporary "everyday" people like you and me. Alright got it > The other guy was claiming that Kyokushin Karate "does a lot better in real world applications than Boxing" and I am genuinely interested if this is true or not. Karate would most likely do better with kicks and other things which aren't puching. A Karateka could probably get up to a boxer's level in that area applied to Karate punches but it would take training and time. As an art that's built on and for primierly hands, boxings at a avery hight level and almost unmatched in that department. Top Class. >Don't get me wrong, I'm loving Kyokushin and I'm not doing it to be a brawler, but I just can't seem to find any evidence of Kyokushin in street fights whatsoever. Looking on YT and elsewhere's , i'll see if I can find anything
>>860120 The marines needed a new martial art since americans are so fat others weren't effective,so they commissioned McDonalds to come up with something they can use. And thus, McDonalds Martial Arts for Poofs was born. Here's an example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64DNpYiqlEc
>>859966 >>859824 Yo Kyokushin anon couldn't find anything but have yet check out worldstar something might be there. All I could ser on yt were a couple of K O`s that either din t say the art or weren't kyokushin. did see that classic one of that white guy Koing that other black guy on first search of kyo in a street fight, said it was karate but It wasn't kyokushin
>>860921 >Nobody street fights and brawls a shit ton. Except shitkicker rednecks and club bros. Is that what you want to be? It's 2016 now, so that's becoming more true. Things weren't always the same, though.
>>860921 >You'll never have enough street fights to git gud because you'll end up in the ICU. With enough power and money, you could create circumstances for yourself to train deadly and efficient arts while in controlled environments that make you more likely to go through training without too much serious injury.
Not really a street fight, but here's some kyokushin guys fighting some taikiken guys. It's standup only, but with head punches allowed and no gloves. The result is pretty much what you'd expect. They seem able to punch to the head effectively, but defend their own heads poorly. Kicks are used sparingly and to little effect. Matsui gets kneed a lot. Based on this, it seems like boxing + wrestling would be more effective than kyokushin, because that's what they keep trying to do even though they're trained in something else.
>>861300 >because that's what they keep trying to do even though they're trained in something else. It just sounds like they have some self disciplinary problems. To do all of that learning, just to throw it away because there's a little adrenaline in your system.
>>861345 No, it's not that. Humans fight a certain way, and if your style deviates too far from that, then you just won't end up doing your style when you actually fight. Good fighting is just some slight variations on haymakers, headlocks, pickups, kicks, and stomps. Your subconscious is smart enough to not try fancy shit when your life is on the line.
Thanks a lot. That's exactly my story, you jaust can't find any Karate fights out there. Even for Aikido of Kung Fu there are some fights where people win or lose. But not for Karate. Or is there just no survivor of an encouter with a Karateka? Hehehe.. No, I don't think so. Probably they just don't get into fights.
My question was rather how the Kyokushin skills would translate into "real" fights. I believe that a tough body and mental strength carry you a long way in a street fight and Kyokushin Karateka have both. But the sheer movements are another story. I'd just like to hear stories, wether they are winning or losing stories.
I didn't know that the IKO 1 Chairman was such a bad ass who fought other guys in bare knuckle fights.. That's the Osu spirit!! \(*~*)/
Alltogether the Kyokushin guys did a lot better than I expected, very powerful punches and nice leg kicks. Also I can't really blame the Taikiken guys turning it into a grappling match, considering that's how the Kyo guys used to win against Muay Thain in 1964..
But I would have expected to see more "special kicks", i.e. heel kick (Ushiro mawashi geri), which are unexpected and have a good knock out power. Then again I've never been to bare knuckle competitions, guess you wouldn't want to do too risky stuff.
>>858480 Muat Thai is the shittest martial art I have ever fought against. >Sparring match starts >Muay Thai faggot shuffles close with stupid footwork >Me -"Hmm, I wonder if he is going to do a right leg turning kick to my head and follow up with a left arm elbow strike." >Muay Thai faggot does a right leg turning kick to my head and a left elbow follow up >I duck under the turning kick and deliver an axe kick as he is leaning over with his elbow strike and I nail him on the head >he stumbles and falls over
Repeat this with every other Muay Thai idiot in the place.
>>859400 And this is exactly what most Wing Chun guys do, spout theory all day instead of proper pressure testing... I know of one Aikido lineage that does proper pressure testing, and they basically look like fucking Judo. Judo is better then Aikido in EVERY way.
>>868152 Actually, the theory of "attacking and defending at the same time is good" is actually pretty correct for the most part. As popularly shown in Western Boxing counters, not to mention various other arts. Shut the fuck up, you stupid ass fucking worthless minded piece of shit faggot.
>>867967 Aikido and knife defensce... LOL!!! I don't care how good you are at ANY martial art. If you have any damn brains, your gonna run if someone try's and comes at you with a knife. Just shows how blatantly stupid you are for thinking that knife defense is a regular occurrence, guess what, ITS NOT FAGGOT.
>>868152 Depends on your teacher and you how long it takes to become whatever level. Anyone saying it takes x years to achieve whatever rank talks shit because it takes as long as it takes, or as little. My wing chun teacher isnt that theory minded, more about what's practical and at least relevant in the real world.
Try it before judging it. You need good athleticism and a pretty good timing and balance to pull this off.
But I'm pretty sure YOU could defend against an Uchi Mata, repoition yourself, throw the other guy while you're standing on one leg and do an appropriate backflip with the other guy over you in mid air, right?
I see all this talk about which is better to fight a large group of people, but isn't the method to do that to never let them surround you? Use other people's bodies to block the advance of his friends? Do one or two hits in critical points of each person and quickly move? No matter what martial arts you learn, if you can't follow rules like that you're going to get beat down.
>>857770 freestyle wrestling vs 1 >all fights go to ground >all other systems make predictions based on facing another person who is trained in that style or a complete dumbass
any more I'd say being the craziest motherfucker in the room is the best strategy. >immediately strip naked >speak in tongues >don't be afraid to shit and piss >dive straight for eyes and throats >use your teeth If you're lucky most people just don't want to fight a naked guy, no matter how good their advantage is, so they'll fuck off fast when they realize how potentially embarrassing the situation is.
>>882574 >Because normal people don't look for fights Normal people look for fights all the time. Normal people look for fights when they're upset. Stupid people might start fights when they're upset more than normal people start fights when they're upset, but that doesn't mean normal people don't start fights when they're upset at all.
>>859383 >There are lots of videos of boxers knocking down three people in a row.
Honestly, I don't think there's any martial art that really teaches you how to consistently come out on top against multiple enemies. Any time there's a fight of one guy against a group it depends on the defender's practice and experience in any kind of combat, and the more attackers the greater the deficit will have to favor the defender.
I've seen those videos, but they're almost always 3 skinny nigger teens trying to flail on some guy in his late 30s who spent his whole youth boxing.
Want to beat someone in a -1 minute fight? Learn judo or ju-jitsu, they can't hurt you if their fucking wrist or arm is broken... Or you can look less of a bad-ass and go for boxing and just punch the shit out of the guy. But then you would have bruised wrists wouldn't ya
>>883319 >Any time there's a fight of one guy against a group it depends on the defender's practice and experience in any kind of combat You fail to observe more closely, and utilize logical reasoning well. Some things are better for somethings than others.
You could cut a piece of toast with a knife, or you could cut a piece of toast with a fork.
Different martial arts have strengths and weaknesses in different areas.
>the more attackers the greater the deficit will have to favor the defender. Which is offset by his general skill, and his less generalized skill in fighting off multiple opponents.
Some things work better against multiple opponents than others, like pulling guard. Pulling guard works a lot better against a single opponent than it does against 5 opponents.
>>857770 I practice Han Mu Do, would recommend. We learn Mu Duk Kwon Tae Kwon Do and Sin Mu Hapkido as the main pillars, though we use Hapkido more in actual training. Hapkido is focused on joint control (breaking joints) while the Tae Kwon Do is just strikes and blocks. Tae Kwon Do is very rigid and meant to be powerful while Hapkido's movements are more flowing and designed to work with the movements of your opponent. We train heavily with knives and staffs over other weapons, although we do train with a sword at higher rank.
But to answer your question, I don't believe you can objectively designate a "best" martial art. In my opinion, being truly dangerous is being proficient in several martial arts. The big three I wish to learn are Han Mu Do (for controlling and pacifying the enemy while standing and grappling with them, and also being proficient with melee weaponry), Muay Thai (for EXTREMELY effective kicks), and Jiu Jitsu (for controlling the enemy should the fight be brought to the ground) >inb4 white belt
>>885765 Also Han Mu Do incorporates Korean Judo or Yudo. Good luck finding a school though, our organization is based in the Southern/South Eastern US. Instructors are very knowledgeable and are mainly combat veterans.
Anyone know a video where two guys are on the street fighting, one of the guys is a wannabe gangster and clearly knows nothing and the other guy goes into a backbalance, dodges every one of the guy's wild punches, then beats him up?
>>886045 >Actually a huge chunk of Tae Kwon Do involves pretending to break joints...
You did it slow motion, compliantly, and never carried the technique to completion. As a result you have no idea whether you can break joints or not. You have faith that you can because you took the word of some guy who has never done it.
>>891960 >unless you break people's arms and legs all day you can't say you know how to do it lmao a huge chunk of BJJ involves pretending to choke people to death or break their limbs, but you don't see people talking shit about it (because BJJ is a meme sport)
BJJ puts people in a position where the break is inevitable. It's like chess. If the king can't escape, you don't actually have to take him. When your elbow can't do anything BUT break because it can't bend to the side and it can't flex because you can't curl more than your opponent can deadlift your elbow is in mate. Also people accidentally DO break people's shit all the time, and chokes are carried to completion in competitions on a regular basis.
You have your buddy lock out a fake lunge punch and then stand there catatonic while you pretend you've caught his wrist and then pretend you're snapping his elbow. Or you throw a snap kick 18 inches to the side of his knee and tell yourself the joint would have exploded if you had aimed directly at it.
If you don't see the difference between these things I don't know what to tell you.
There is no best, objectively. There is only what is best for you.
Jeet Kun do doesn't get much attention but its actually a really good starting point. You get a solid base and some active sparring.
You're encouraged to do other kinds of martial arts, take applicable techniques and ultimately create a style that suits you perfectly.
Combat Sports are proven effective though, unlike Aikido, Ninjitsu and all the old traditional stuff. It's not that they're guaranteed shit, it's just that they aren't that effective in a combat sports context.
Hi all Ive done a few martial arts in my time. and the two that beats them all is good old boxing. and if youve bitten off more than you can chew ( and who hasent if your old enough or honest enough) is running, it is a undervalued skill often underestimated in many a heroic dojo
>>893269 >i need to run more but my knees die wut. If you're saying you get knee pain from running most, if not all treadmills have a cushion in them to relieve impact. I got one for that very reason and it's worked wonders. If that's not enough there's always stationary bikes. BTW if you aren't saying you're knees hurt from running them I'm not sure what the hell you mean kek.
I used to go to a place in Toronto where I learned hapkido. The guy who ran it was an old korean guy with a really open mind. Punches were more similar to boxing, kicking and joint locks were fairly standard, he let some older guys who were into mma teach grappling. It was a good comprehensive place to learn. That guy was a damn master though. Incapacitated me once with just a bic pen. Even though he was probably 65-70 his punch was just fucking deadly. It was like someone threw a dumbbell into your chest at full power.
Their kicks work. Sorry they don't impress you with their aesthetics.
As long as low kicks are on the table I'd back a nak muay over an Olympic TKD player in a kick-only fight any day. Being able to throw a solid dead leg is way more valuable than being able to throw a jump spinning back kick.
>>859315 >Aldo is such a more well rounded fighter than McGregor >Aldo has grappling >McGregor doesn't have grappling >Aldo is going to beat McGregor because McGregor doesn't have grappling and Aldo has grappling
>>902689 >>903211 Modern wrestling has lost too many of its shoot and Greco-Roman roots. It's now designed to transition into a ground game instead of ustilizing throws as a way to end a fight and relies too much on strength instead of physics.
>>904634 That's because most people won't let you just lift them up and throw them. Throws are an easy way to get stuck and pinned. People also don't wear a gi that accelerates the throw. >relies too much on strength I can tell that you've never wrestled
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