BJJ V JUDO

Bjj

>>854627

Both need some adaption for MMA but both can work pretty good.

BJJ is more common because in Judo there ain't No-Gi training..

>>854627
we already have had the same thread yesterday.
why make these shitty bait threads?

>>854627
Judo focuses on throwing people which does not count was as winning in MMA. Since you can use submissions BJJ is better suited

>>854771
Judo has plenty of submissions tho. Look at Ronda's kill streak.

>>854875
Ronda's a can who got lucky against other cans. Judo doesn't work in MMA look only in the women's division since its like 20 years behind regular MMA.

You hardly see it its only wrestling and BJJ that dominate.

So to answer OP, BJJ all the way.

>>854900

Wrestling has a much larger install base, if you will, than judo.

>>854928
and its because wrestling is better then judo.

>>854934

No, it's because wrestling is on 99% of high school curriculums.

>>854936
and that's because its better.
correct me if i'm wrong but judo is taught in japan's high school but every japanese fighter in MMA gets their ass kicked by american wrestlers and that's because judo sucks in MMA. The tried ad true method to succeed in MMA is BJJ for submission and wrestling for takedowns. Judo might have both but sucks at both compare to BJJ and wrestling.

>>854943
When you throw someone on a hard surface it takes them out of the fight. MMA just doesn't favor judo it doesn't mean that wrestling is better

>>854943
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-Bd32s3xA4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UwxDGGcEIc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HS68izIuQQ

second one is my favorite

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>>854936
>mfw I am the 1%
>mfw never even heard of high school wrestling while growing up.
>mfw even a K-12 school in Alaska with only 12 students has a wrestling team.

>>855020
Alaska isn't even real America. Russia should have kept it.

>>855027
Alaska is so resource rich getting rid of it would be like throwing away money

>>854900
>who is fedor emelienko
>who is yoshihiro akiyama

Pls go

>>855048
Fedor is sambo first of all and a tad overrated
Akiyama is a roided up can. Who's gotten his ass kicked by decent wrestlers.

Judo is great for the street and okay for the octagon.
BJJ is great for the octagon and okay for the street.

>>854698
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qswoANsba_w

Stop listening to /asp/ and/or training at shit places.

>>855249
>muh good special snowflake judo gym that has 50% newaza and no gi trainning
stop

>>854936
You forgot to add "in burgerstan but essentially doesn't exist in the rest of the world"

>>855249
4 points? What is this queer shit?

>>854943
>>854954
Who wants to see a years worth of with-gi-MMA?
I'd bet Judo and BJJ would be favored more than wrestling.

>>855064
>implying fedor doesn't hold a black belt and his considered a "master of sport" in judo
>implying Sambo isn't just Russian judo anyways.

>>855186
lol

>>855289
Please be constructive anon, I don't care which one, just please give more than that.

>>855288
>implying it was judo what made Fedor so dominant
>sambo derives from judo but is expanded on it, like bjj

>>854771
Has nobody managed a KO with a hard throw in pro MMA?

Feodor didnt use any judo or sport sambo in his matches. prove me wrong homos

>>856316
do you just want to talk about the grappling part of sambo and fedor's move list

or do you want to talk about the striking part of sambo and fedor's move list too?

>>855571
lol

>>856307

He, one of Ronda's ko's was her hip tossing... I want to say Carmouche? And then feeding her several dozen knuckle sandwiches.

>>856307
It happens every now and then.
It's hard to do on a padded floor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRNHFuNL0mc

There are more KOs from throws in judo than in MMA. I've never played MMA, but I'm guessing that their octagons might be softer than our mats.

>>855027
That would be like letting the garbage man take away a pile of money thats been sitting at your back door.

>>855020
same. And I live in Mississippi. Never even knew HS wrestling was even a thing until I watched some old movies about highschool life.

>>856722
>but I'm guessing that their octagons might be softer than our mats.
The floor of the octagon is made so it favors neither striker nor grappler.
The mats aren't particularly soft, and they are spring loaded.

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>>854875

Ronda was successful cause she fought women who didn't know wtf they were doing in there.

>Tfw in 2 weeks Domin8r will have crushed the snayke in dee grass

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>>857597
Holly Holmes had a lot of help though Greg Jackson hired 2 American Olympic Judoka to be her training partners in preparation against Ronda Rousey. So its not the art's fault, the technique is still valid.

Ronda's go to technique of the rolling juji gatame is the go to for a majority of sambo fighters. Its very high percent.

I recommend in investing in Juji Gatame Encyclopedia written by Sambo Master of sport and judo black belt (also close personal friend of Ronda's mom) Steve Scott

424 pages, just cause Ronda's variant was counter doesn't mean she can't modify the technique to make it successful again. Its the nice thing of having a tokui waza (speciality)

So tl;dr
you can knock the fighter, but good technique is still good technique.

>>857597

Goddamn I want Ronda to fart in my mouth.

>>855865
I wasn't implying that. Fedor was so dominant because he was an amazing fighter, not because of judo or sambo specifically. All I'm saying is that there are successful judo fighters and to say "hurr durr judo sucks lol" just because shocker, there's not as many is pretty fucking dumb

>>857960
/asp/ has been pretty dumb lately.

>>857609

This is 100% accurate.

Holmes won because she perfectly studied ronda. She was as prepared as you can be and played all her cards at the right time. At the fight you can see how she immediately counters any of ronda's moves with exactly the right movement. And honestly, if she made one tiny mistake at the Hip Throw or at the ground it would have been game over, and Holm knew this very well..

So honestly, if anything Ronda got used too winning easily and she hadn't any strong fighter before who would have forced her to use a differnt strategy. But if there's a rematch my money is on Ronda, not because I like her that much, but because she won't make the same mistake twice and underestimate Holm again.

Until then let's enjoy the shitfest about "Judo doesn't work" and "Ronda is a bad fighter".

It's not like Yoshida kicked Royce Gracie's ass or anything..

Oh well.

>>854934
Wrestling is more effective in MMA because both are done without a gi. If MMA matches would be done with a gi - not sure if that'd be a good idea honestly - and the UFC bothered to recruit from more countries while the IJF removed several moronic rules (including the one prohibiting internationally competing athletes from competing in other sports) you'd see a lot more people crossing over from Judo and Sambo.

>>854943
>put wrestler in gi
>see what happens
On more than one occasion I've had people who were better wrestlers than I am sigh while their spirits visibly sagged simply because I got a lapel grip on them during gi training. It can shut down considerable parts of their game plan. Basically what I said here really. >>858036

>>855255
You forget all of Eastern Europe, the Caucasus, parts of Central Asia like Iran, Mongolia and others, East Africa, Turkey, India and probably a few more. There's a lot of wrestling traditions out there.

But it's declined massively in Europe over the last century, and has never been big in many other parts of the world, so that's quite true.

>>854627
Bjj is great for grappling
Judo is close quarter takedowns
Wrestling is good for takedown at a medium distance

>>858455
>takedown at a medium distance
Using the force?

>>858510
He probably refers to covering distance through shooting.

>>858510

Clinch --> Muay Thai
Close distance --> Judo
Medium distance --> Wrestling
Long Distance --> Yellow Bamboo

>>859654
But only BJJfags try to "cover distance" by shooting (read: flopping on their face).

Shooting's a vertical and sideways change of position, you aren't charging towards them like a rugby player.

>>860544
That depends chief. You can have a penetration step. You can also knee slide in. John Smith was a great example of this. He wore a knee pad specifically to cover more distance by sliding when he shot.

We also call what you are talking about wrestling "Brazilian style".

>>860612
>wrestling "Brazilian style"
Kek

just train UFC.

>>861939
You mean
>just train for UFC

A good way to do this is to find a good Wing Chun instructor who teaches Wing Chun like Boxing and Muay Thai are generally taught, but better.
Then, you can beat people in the cage with Wing Chun, proving to the world that it's not the martial art that wins, but the martial artist.

Except Aikido is too hard to do efficiently a majority of the time for too many people.

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>>861022
I will say this as a scrub high school wrestling coach. The Brazilians might not have the pure wrestling pedigree or even clean technique as their American counter part, but what's been incredible with MMA's rulset and forcing evolution has been a majority of Brazlian fighters using the cage walls to supplement and aid their wrestling.

In the most classical scene of technique its sort of really sloppy. But there's good technique, i honestly think that America trumps Brazil in classical wrestling technique, but Brazil has a slight edge in using MMA wrestling or at least using walls to supplement their wrestling technique.

So i think Brazlian style wrestling is actually a positive connotation in terms of MMA, if you're from Nova Uniao, Damian or a bunch of other BJJ black belts who don't have good classic free style wrestling/greco/folk

>>855249
Oh look, wrestling basically with ground game.

I wish more BJJ clubs gave takedowns a little more love.

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>>862283
>Oh look, wrestling basically with ground game.

>>854875
In Ronda's biography she said she spent many many hours on the mats at Hayastan with BJJ guys. She isn't strictly a judo fighter, most judo black belts are like BJJ blue belts on the ground, just like how most BJJ fighters aren't very good standing up

>>862652
If you get a judo black belt you automatically get a BJJ blue belt.

>>862797
and then get tapped out by BJJ blues. I'm always surprise we don't see more BJJ guys just embarass the hell out of judofags at the Olympics, it ticks me off that judo keeps setting rules up to prevent BJJ guys from entering, it reeks of fear and insecurity.

>>862809
>it reeks of fear and insecurity.
Or, you know, Judo is about muh throws, not cuddling on the floor with your opponent.

>>862837
throws are a tad pointless since they don't end fights. A good submission does though.

>>862844
>throws are a tad pointless since they don't end fights

>>862855
you do a judo throw in a fight, you give up your back and get choked out. They're real low percent, and all judofags throw and roll guys off, see a BJJ blue belt would letthe judofag throw him, and then as they fall, choke him out with his own gi.

>>862887
Or he'd stop fighting once his brain was spread across the pavement.

Please note that a large number of throws are literally against the rules in BJJ because they hurt babbies who can't into ukemi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW0-FtqSFLs

I'd also like you to show me how good you are at choking somebody out when they "give up their back" for a seoi nage or an uchi mata.

You're acting like a wrasslan fan who's never trained a single martial art in his life.
>W-well my favourite superhero would beat your favourite superhero!

>>862893
there's a huge reason why BJJ an wrestler are used in UFC more so then judo an its because their moves work better

You might see a fluke judo move but its luck or if you're Ronda Rousey you're fighting shitty women who can't fight. But in the men's division its all the same. You do a wrestling tackley you choke them out.

See most men's UFC fighter do a judo throw, they get stuck on the ground and tapped out.

>>862893
Here's a tai chi throw working in the streets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_kdGe8Ljc

Here's some judo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRTsabfMTgs

>>862893
I can't think of any Judo throws that are illegal in BJJ.

Now, on the other hand if we were to talk about stuff that is legal in BJJ but not in Judo we'd be here all day.

>>862994
If you'll notice I actually linked a video containing a ton of perfectly legitimate throws which were deemed to be "slams" because BJJ guys can't into ukemi.

>>862893
Watched that entire video and counted 17 incidents. I counted 0 that were the result of specific Judo throws. All guard slamming, punching, and illegal wrestling slams. Speaking of which, didn't Judo ban wrestling takdowns like double and single legs? :^)

>>863002
>guard slamming
Read: "I jumped up on him like a retarded koala! He shouldn't be allowed to throw me from there!"

>illegal wrestling slams
Ahahahahaha

> didn't Judo ban wrestling takdowns like double and single legs?
The difference is, nobody actually agrees with that. Beej babbies will defend their rules until the cows come home.

>>863004
>Read: "I jumped up on him like a retarded koala! He shouldn't be allowed to throw me from there!"
Nice strawman

>Ahahahahaha
Feel free to address the point

>The difference is, nobody actually agrees with that. Beej babbies will defend their rules until the cows come home.
Do you think it matters? You're guilty of what you're up in arms over and regardless of weather you like it or not it's still the reality.

>>863016
It's not a strawman.
Look how many of those "slams" didn't even involve uke touching the ground before he was thrown.

>>863018
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending bjj's weak techniques and rules regarding slamming. My point is that those guard slams and double leg slams aren't exclusive Judo throws and techniques. You misrepresented that point with "I jumped up on him like a retarded koala! He shouldn't be allowed to throw me from there!"
which is a strawman.

>>856307
Grey Maynard knocked himself out years ago slamming someone

>>862797
You definitely don't.

>>863004
>>862995
>>862893

it sounds like baby can't pass guard

>>863121
No matter how you spin it, jumping "guard" is not a legitimate technique.

>>863123
I might aswell say that turtling up and waiting for the ref to stand you up is not a legitimate technique either you fucking cunt

>>863123
>>863128
Agreed. BJJ should merge back into mainstream judo where it belongs.

>>855251
I was super sad when I found out that this wasn't the norm.

Maybe people get turned off of bjj because of the types of posters in this thread? Sure the judo guys here are being defensive, but everyone is always going on about muh bjj so I can see why they would be.

>ITT: delicious BJJ kool aid

>>862887
As someone who crosstrains in both Judo and BJJ and has been doing both for multiple years: the average BJJ blue belt is (or at least, should be) capable of choking a Judoka black belt when given the time, but they're hardly ever able to do that after a throw. Judo standing game is usually too fast for them to capitalize on it. They're down before they realize what's going on, let alone them being able to find the time to set up a choke.

I'm quite dangerous with chokes myself, and I've won a good deal of Judo matches with chokes to counter botched throws, but applying a choke after a good clean throw is really fucking hard. The only reason I'm able to choke against throws is because I'm used to the fast pace. You blink once and the opportunity is gone.

>>862899
>there's a huge reason why BJJ an wrestler are used in UFC more so then judo an its because their moves work better
Something designed to work without a gi works better in an environment without a gi than something done almost exclusively with a gi? I'd have never thought. Same goes for someone spending most of their time of ground fighting being better at ground fighting than someone devoting at most half of their time to it.

Wrestling and BJJ are simply more suitable for MMA because of the larger mutual overlap.

Judo. BJJ if you find someone old school.

>>863376
>BJJ
>merging into Judo
>not Judo merging into BJJ as Jiu Jitsu is centuries older than Judo
:^)

>>862995
That entire video had one throw and the person did not get in trouble for it.

>>864527
>Implying Bjj isnt an offshoot of kodokan judo

>>864608
>Implying Kodokan Judo isn't an offshoot of Jiu Jitsu which is an offshoot of wrestling.

>>864564
If they haven't hit the ground yet, it's a throw.
Fucking deal with it, beejfag.

>>864527
>>864608
>>864614

>implying we can't just coexist
>implying whole life is a dick contest
>implying it's not about how hard you train but about minor differences in styles
>implying grappling isn't just grappling after all

>>861990
But 90% of the skillset of Wing Chung, Kickboxing, Muay Thai or Karate are the same. The way they're taught is what makes the difference.

So if you found a coach who teaches Wing Chung like Muay Thai, you would be doing Muay Thai and not Wing Chun.

>>864967
A Swarm Fighter is not an Out Boxer, and doing Chi Sao for 80% of the time and then blocking while punching the dummy at the same time is not the same as Sparring 4 times a week.

>>864958
If you train hard, as well as train efficiently, you get even better than if you were just to train hard and not efficiently.
You could cut a steak with a knife, or you could cut it with a spoon.
Using the knife is like practicing a good martial art, while using the spoon is like practicing a shit martial art.

>>864997
That's why Wing Chun with modified teaching methods is objectively the best martial art for MMA, American Kickboxing, Muay Thai, and self defense.

How Wing Chun blocks and attacks at the same time, has Western Boxing-like counters, has elbow strikes, grappling, and uses the techniques to make the in-boxing even better is pure genius.
There is no better martial art when proper training methods are applied properly.

>>864999
Please tell us all what rules you use when sparring.

>>864996
A straight punch is a straight punch whether it goes against a dummy or an actual opponent.

>>865158
It's not when chicken wingers only punch with their arms and use no hip movement to generate power.

>>857969
blame the WWE fags

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both are cool, I prefer Judo tho…

>>862809

A judo blackbelt is a LONG LONG LONG way from an Olympic level judoka.

I have rolled with blackbelt judokas who don't put any effort into newaza, and just turtle up and flatten out. They put all of their effort into their throwing game. But at the Olympic level, they are competent everywhere. They don't train stuff like DLR, berimbolos, 50/50, but if the average blue belt went up against a serious international judoka on the ground thinking they are going to steamroll, they are going to get clock choked unconscious.

Please also remember, a blue belt can be a hobbyist. An international level player for judo is an A+ level athlete by definition and will have a huge advantage in strength, coordination, cardio, coachability and mental toughness

tl;dr - if you think your blue belt means you can tap an Olympian out, you are in deep shit

>>865158

Someone who says this can be safely ignored because he knows nothing.

>>865031

1. Not the face!
2. No, punch me like THIS. Then pause while I do my moves.
3. Stand closer so our arms can be in contact at all times. No. Closer.

>>864999

That's why wing chun has produced so many champions in MMA, American Kickboxing, and Muah Thai, and there are stories in the news every day about wing chunners successfully defending themselves.

>>867469
The fuck happened there? What's the story?

>>870243
lol

>>870247
Maybe they were meeting for a drug deal or something. Backpack clearly trusted the other guy. Impressed he had the reaction time to snatch that gun before it was pointed at his chest.

>>854627
It just depends on who you train under and how much you work on developing your skill set. A better trained wrestler will defeat and inferior judoka and vice versa. Best of luck.

>>871385
Meanwhile this is a Judo vs BJJ thread lol. Same concept though.

>>856722
>hard to do on a padded floor
Exactly. Having once been slammed onto a concrete floor I can attest to that. There's no getting up after that kind of impact.

>>871474

>Having once been slammed onto a concrete floor
>There's no getting up after that kind of impact
>Pick one

>>871687
why not both

>>864564
The guard pullers get slammed by a throw that is in Judo but also illegal in judo competition.

>>871689

Because how did Anon get up to wright his post in the first place if you don't get up when getting slammed on concrete?!

>>855270
that is actually a cool idea

>>871788
Anon Postwright is still on the concrete.

>>854627
Neither, wrestling is the best base currently since the unified rules favors it.
BJJ is a better base than Judo though, if it wasn't every MMA-fighter would be learning Judo instead of BJJ.

>>871826
How do I into wrestling as a 24 year old American?

>>872008
MMA gyms and ask for their wrestling coach

>>872014
Sadly, the one around here only has BJJ and MMA striking with a boxing focus.

>>872032
ask the local high school wrestling coaches where they go to train outside of their highschool, i mean they know their craft and they just dont train on high school kids, they probably have their own club

>>871747
No, what they did was completely legal in judo (in most cases), because we have a different definition of "slam".

In judo, you aren't allowed to pick someone up off the mat and then throw them back down.
In BJJ, you have to "safely deliver your opponent to the ground".

If someone "pulls guard" and they don't even touch the ground, then you're entirely free to daki age them.
That's why nobody "pulls guard" like that in judo comps, because it's basically giving your opponent a free ippon.

>>872131
>and they don't even touch the ground, then you're entirely free to daki age them.

>I have never trained judo in my life, the post

>>871687
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktquuOLeQV4

he gets up several times. good luck landing that perfect throw

>>872424
also notice how he can't keep the guy on the ground after he lands it. nigga gets up several times. if that judoka knew some wrestling or bjj he wouldnt have to worry about that.

you know what
train 6 months-1 year of each wrestling bjj and judo, then stick to one. or stick to one but learn the other two eventually, just a little. you just need a very basic skill set of each to make full use of it against scrubs or to defend yourself enough from other practioners of those arts avoiding the most basic mistakes.

>>872423
It's true though.

http://betterjudo.com/why-is-that-illegal/

>By the way, if uke jumps onto me from the front (pulling guard) for some silly reason, I can slam him to the mat

Honestly, I challenge you to find a single judo ruleset which bans you from throwing someone if they jump up onto you.

>>872429
Honestly, a blue belt in BJJ (esp. from a defense-oriented school like a Gracie club) is essential for judoka. There isn't much point progressing further than that, though.

Wrestling is also incredibly useful, but more from a defensive aspect than a sportive one.

>>872429

>also notice how he can't keep the guy on the ground after he lands it.

Don't blame the system for the fighter. Judoka are generally quite good at throwing someone and following immediately with a pin or submission.

Also I think both dudes in the video are grapplers. You see at 0:59 the black dued tries a hip throw (which the white dude counters) and generally he's pretty good at landing and immediately escaping the pins of the other dude. An unexperienced guy wouldn't have excaped that easily.