They can be surprisingly friendly and sweet. Quite quirky too. They can kill off grass if you don't leave it time to heal from their constant foraging, though. Also, their shit has the consistency of tar and smells awful, so wear shoes when you're outside with them.
My aunt had chickens when I was a kid. I dunno how they would be as "pets", but they were very pleasant to have around. They're big and soft. They like sitting on laps and shoulders and heads. But they don't have much personality.
>>2044863 You're right about the personality thing. Chickens are either warm and amiable, or cold and standoffish. There's not much in between.
They're really good pets when they're nice. I need to reiterate what others have said, that the "bok bok" noise they make when they're happy is really cute. It always puts a smile on my face. Like a cat's purr.
>>2045123 Barred rocks probably blend to predators better than you might think. Think zebras and their optical illusion stripes.
I may be wrong though. It's hard to say how nature truly works. Barred rocks are not a naturally occurring breed, so their stripes may not work that way.
>>2045127 Gross. Chickens should be kept outside. They're happiest when they're outside and can peck at things on the ground.
Out of all of the chicken breeds out their, which ones lay the best eggs(I would prefer quality over quantity, as well as reliability) but also have great personality in case I wind up getting too attached and end up keeping them more as pets than as a farm animal?
>>2044226 I agree with this post...I've had chickens my whole life...if you are looking for more so of a "pet" chicken I'd look into silkies. They are generally a calm breed that is friendly plus they are so fluffy
Make sure you have a coop with a mesh top, normally I let my birds just dick around out side their co-op, but I've lost one to a hawk when I wasn't around, make sure they always have access to the outside, the goobers love sand too
>>2045250 Two of my chickens growing up seemed to prefer to hang out with us and they'd make a bolt for the house when we went in, so I'd makeshift a diaper on them for when they chilled on the couch with us. I considered teaching them to use the dog door but I didn't want them coming in undiapered.
>>2044174 Can anyone with chickens here help me sex two silkies and a Dutch bantam I have? Pretty sure the Dutch bantam is a pullet, but one of the silkies recently started "soliciting" the hens. (that weird thing they do to show hens they have food) Pic related. I'll post better/more pictures if I know somebody can help.
i had a pet chicken.. i hatched it in an incubator.. i had 4 eggs but he was the only one who lived.. he was awwweeesome.. i had him for a few months and my mom felt sad for him being all alone in the garage and made me give him to a farm and he lasted a couple days before being eaten by an owl or something :(
he was cool though.. fly on your head.. ride on my bike handle .. chase the dog.. cool chicken
My brother an uncle owned pet chickens. My uncle's chickens used to crawl into his lap. They eventually gave them to a friend who owned a ranch.
My brother had about 5 and now has two left. The two that are left usually give him about a egg every other day? They have free range of his fenced in garden and the coup is set up in there for them.
I have a question. I had a conversation with a more adamant vegan who was bitching at me because I was talking about wanting some pet chickens. She told me I would be stealing the eggs from them(she said they'd eat them if left to long) and stressing them out by eating their eggs.
I'm thinking a lot of it is horseshit. Every time I collect eggs from my brother's chickens, they're usually in the garden and don't seem to give a fuck(they're usually expecting food) when I open up the coop roof to check for eggs.
I'm just wondering if it does cause any kind of stress to them for me to be getting into their coup if they're not in there. Do your chickens ever eat their eggs if you leave them in there for too long?
I think I'd rather ask some actual chicken owners instead of listening to some asshole vegan.
>>2047224 Chickens will eat their own eggs, she'll and all. Quite enthusiastically, actually. They chase eggs I throw across the yard like a dog chasing a tennis ball. I'm sure they're not stressed about somebody taking them. Chickens will not get stressed or angry about their eggs being taken unless they're broody. Even then, it's only if you take them right out from under her.
>>2047242 I was thinking they'd eat them. Though I really don't think it's stealing. I was saying with all the stuff you provide them(shelter, food, vet care, etc....) I was thinking eating a few eggs was fair. I like the idea of raising my own food so I figured eating the eggs of chickens I raised myself would be probably the most humane way to get an animal product.
>>2047160 >>2047202 >>2047206 Okay so I can tell you with virtual certainty that the buff/partridge and the bantam are hens. I'd be astonished if they weren't.
As for blacky here, that's a tough call. I'd have to say that compared to the other two, and given the behavior you described, that it is indeed a cock. However, it's hard to call, Silkies have a lot of variety in that regard and are notoriously difficult to sex.
Are any of these from the same parents? Where did you get them? They're all really cute, the black guy's personally my favorite
>>2047224 >>2047242 >>2047248 That vegan sounds like an asshat but they were definitely correct in saying that they'll eat their eggs. Although it's not from stress or anything, from what I've seen they'll either do it because they're bored from being in the coop too long, or if one accidentally cracks, that triggers them and they'll eat it. Kinda like how you can't leave a chicken with open wounds with other chickens, it flicks some primal switch in their brains and they become piranhas.
And yeah, they couldn't give a fuck about you taking the eggs unless they go broody.
>>2047252 Yeah. The other vegans found her assholish too. I figured if my brother's chickens were feeling stressed from us being in their coop, they'd show more signs of stress. I was thinking doing stuff like cleaning out the coop would probably be a more stressful situation for them then the 30 seconds it takes to open the roof and pick up the eggs.
My daughter has about 30 of them free-ranging around her backyard Some are friendly, some are assholes, all are entertaining. Funny as hell watching the rooster fuck every one each morning Plenty of fresh eggs to be had
>>2047249 Blackie came from a hatchery. Straight runs always fuck me over, every single fucking time. I'll get rid of him if he is a cock for sure, but he's not really very friendly, so no real loss there. The buff one came from my neighbor's silkies. He's got really nice blue plumage hiding under the buff that's not really visible on camera, but he's cool as fuck and real friendly. I'm really hoping you guys are right about him. He's also probably inbred as fuck. The Dutch bantam is just from a local middle school agriculture program. He was too friendly to leave in the hands of a bunch of snotty kids, so I took him. Unfortunately, he was named "Jew" by students and I don't have the heart to change it. I wouldn't mind if he was a cockerel, he'd still be smaller than all my hens and their crows are too pitiful to bother anyone.
>>2047248 It's true. Almost all commercial eggs come from battery hens. Even "cage free organic" hens are treated pretty fucking awfully. Plus, if you've only ever had store bought eggs, free range home grown are fucking amazing and so much better for you. Left is a store egg, right is a home grown egg.
I love my chickens, and if you have the space and a little time, I'd definitely recommend getting a few. Amazing animals.
However, <THIS is why you need to put them in a coop every night. I made the mistake of letting my bigger chickens just roost in the barn during the nights for a few weeks now, and this happened last night. I already lost a chicken a few weeks ago to predator X, but that was during the day. A shame, too, it was a chicken that I'd nursed back to health after a raccoon attack.
My brother said he was going out back last night to fire some rounds at what he thought was a coyote. I went to check on my chickens with him, and sure enough, one of my two Orpington hens was missing with a feather trail leading out to the woods. Right as I started panicking about my poor chicken, we heard a terrible wail coming from the forest, it was my chicken being carried off. My brother fired a round into the air, and said that he saw eyeshine and had scared off whatever had the chicken. I got so desperate to find her that I fell into a frozen creek and had to change clothes and come back out.
It took us a good hour of hiking in the middle of the night and searching to find my little baby. She was sitting quietly in the middle of a trail. Funny, we actually found her on our way back after giving up and assuming she'd been killed. There were dog, raccoon, and some catlike footprints all over the place, but we're guessing it was a bobcat. Still, I'm just calling it predator X.
She's doing fine, eating and drinking decent, and I went to clean the wounds this morning. The other chickens I nursed back to health last spring actually recovered from similar but worse injuries than this, believe it or not.
My brother lives in the high desert with predators like coyotes, bobcats, and even the occasional mountain lion. Their next door neighbor's dog got killed by most likely a bobcat. It was a smaller dog, they let it out into the front yard and the predator got it. My bro's chickens don't really get bothered by anything because their property has large dogs on each side. They do get owls and hawks in the area who perch in the trees, but the chickens have enough coverage to hide from them.
>>2047294 I know. I'm hoping she has the will to live, that's honestly what it comes down to. Apparently sometimes they just give up and die after sustaining heavy damage.
And it's the fucking weirdest thing. I've only seen a bobcat one time in a wildlife rehab center in North Carolina, but apparently one of our neighbors got one on a trail cam a few months ago, and I've been hearing stories of oil rig workers seeing bobcat tracks in the area. It almost had to have been a bobcat, since cats carry away their prey, and the wounds seem very precise, some are like claw marks. It also only took one chicken without even disturbing the others. I feel like a coyote would have just torn the fuck out of a chicken, and raccoon doesn't have the ability to carry a full grown hen 350 feet into the woods and across a creek.
I set out a box trap with cat food a few hours ago, I'll just kill whatever gets caught in there unless it's just like an opossum or a house cat. Not to be edgy or anything, but when that coon almost killed my chicken last spring, I fucking declared jihad on those little forest niggers. I think I ended up trapping and killing like 6 or 7 of them, and some were pregnant, so I guess that ups the kill count as well. I just got rid of them until they stopped showing up.
As for the owl/hawk situation your brother has, I heard that scarecrows really freak hawks out, and you can also put up decoy owls and hawks because both species hate each other and will avoid the area if they see a decoy of the opposing bird.
>>2047300 you don't have a single clue what you're talking about
i was lucky enough to have access to eggs from a very very small flock of birds that were on a super high quality diet (lots and lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, lots of insects, and a pelleted food) and were allowed to roam free during the day.
their yolks were the exact same deep orange as the picture that was posted and they were richer and more flavorful.
i love all eggs, but there is absolutely a difference in taste.
>>2047300 then you've obviously never eaten farm-raised eggs after eating shitty store-bought ones. They taste significantly better and I would have to assume they're healthier given that you know what's going into these chickens, and they actually get a varied diet.
Also, there is only one species of chicken in the world, just different breeds and wild ones
>>2047304 I don't think bobcats are very likely to go into box traps. If they were going to, it'd have to be very large as not to make it feel unsafe. I'd set a foot trap or a conibear. Foot traps are safer, though, and I've seen many, many animals safely released without injury when these traps are set correctly. My chicken actually got caught in a conibear last year. It didn't hurt her at all, just a little bit of bruising, even though it snapped right at her neck and on her chest.
>>2047309 Yeah I know that the bobcat probably wouldn't go into the trap, unfortunately. But like I said, there were raccoon tracks back there as well, so if I can drown off one of those little bastards it will still have been a good day.
I may have to look into getting a larger boxtrap for the bobcat menace. Not allowed to use foot traps in these woods
>>2047312 Eh, you're not allowed to use conibears here either, but as long as you don't tell anybody and it isn't on public property, it shouldn't be an issue. Have you thought about getting a trail cam? Some of them are real cheap and it'll let you know exactly what's out there.
I've been raising chickens for the last three years. Started with my roommate and I getting a couple Marans hens for eggs. I now have three breeding pens, two brooders, two incubators, three grow out pens, and a meat/cull pen. And two blue ribbons. There are about eighty chickens in/around my house right now. Send help.
>>2047316 I'd definitely be interested in a trail cam after this whole fiasco has dialed down and the killer is stopped. It would be pretty cool to see some of what lurks back there. It'd probably mainly just be raccoons and deer though lol
On a happier note, here are my two special birdos, Cinnamon and Cotton (I'll let you figure out who's who). They're little bantam mutts but I love them and I think they're beautiful. I think Cinnamon has some D'uccle in there, or Brahma bantam, and feature-wise, Cotton is like 90% Silkie. 5 toes, white plumage, feathery feet, the only thing she's missing is the crazy fur.
If you guys have any *special birdos*, I'd love to see pictures.
>>2047326 I enjoy my trail cam a whole lot more than I expected. I have maybe half an acre of actual woods on my property and so far I've seen four foxes, dozens of possums, dozens of coons, a bobcat, and a bunny; most of which come every night. It's pretty cool how they almost always come at the same times, too. They have their own schedules and sometimes their own groups that they bring. Foxes are the biggest problem, but luckily they almost always show up at 6:30 on the trail cam, before anything else, so they're pretty easy to trap. Once you know their schedule and habits, it's ridiculously easy to target certain animals. I've caught 3 of the 4 foxes so far and I've had only one non-target catch. I don't have any ~special birdo~ pics right now, but I'll get some tomorrow. I love cotton, she looks so judgmental and somewhat offended.
>>2047331 You know that sounds pretty cool, once I get a little more income coming my way I'll have to consider investing in a trail cam.
And I can't wait to see your lil special birdos. Cotton most likely is very offended, they're both very skittish and shy around me and the other chickens and will only come up to me if I have food. And even then, they freak out at the littlest thing. We're working on it though.
>be age 7 >live inna suburbs >have chickens inna backyard >let them out during noon so they can walk around and do chicken stuff >papa is growing grapes and chili peppers >one day my dad finds them eating everything >they ate to the point when they would destroy the plant >he gives up trying to grow grapes and chili peppers
I miss having chickens, but at least I get to raise eggs in an incubator when I'm in Mexico, even got to see them hatch a few times.
>>2047770 I've never seen this breed before. I like them. I love any breed where the roosters have large flamboyant tails. They perform well in chicken shows if you can keep their feathers intact.
Speaking of shows, have any of you participated in shows before? The county in Ohio where I grew up had a very active 4-H program. I competed in chicken shows at the county fair for many years. They were a lot of fun.
My mom hates chickens so we can't get them. Considering they're descendants of the tyrannosaurus rex, I want to get one (or several). I keep trying to convince her just so we could have eggs, but she seriously thinks they're nothing but assholes and that they shit everywhere and it's disgusting to clean.
>>2047835 They do shit a lot, but it really shouldn't be a problem. Good fertiliser for whatever they scratch around in during the winter. Get a cute breed, and buy the chicks directly from someone if you can. She will not be able to resist
I think New Hampshire reds and some sort of brown chicken. Bear with me, I know fuck all about them. My mom and dad moved into a semi rural area in Michigan. Last time I was up there, there was a turkey hanging out with the chickens :3
>>2047814 If chemical sprays won't keep them away, I doubt soaps will. They always come back. >>2047756 Usually, you learn to recognize specific features in two animals even if they're seemingly identical to strangers.
This would be my ideal - chickens, a dog, and a kitchen with a window. My BF is allergic to cats so just replace it with another dog.
This thread has furthered my desire to own hens someday. I have many years of schooling left though and don't want to actually buy a house until I'm settled in my career so my family of chickens will just have to wait.
My folks have 5 hens currently. One sassy Barred Rock, 2 very friendly Orpingtons, an Australorp , and the last hen I have no idea what it is. It looks like someone took the Australorp , and splashed red paint on its chest and neck area.
>>2048031 Looking at this pic really hurts me deep, anon. I really want a nice house away from the city, with a small garden and some chickens, and a dog and a cat. I don't know when this will become a reality, so I'll just weep here and save your pic.
>>2044226 lol obviously never owned chickens. they are ducking dirty and they clean themselves in dirt. also one of the dumbest creatures alive and they are creepy. 2/10. only weirdos desperate for attention and can't afford an exotic animal would get a chicken. keeping them for eggs is good and meat. other than that your just plain stupid.
>>2047670 You have to treat their housing and pen also. And stay on top of it because some treatments kill the adults but not the eggs. So then the eggs hatch and your chickens are re-infested. It would also help to know exactly what they are infested with. Not "mite/lice" but knowing which one for certain. Google will give you pictures to be able to identify the pest for certain, which will help you find the correct treatment. And not stuffing your bird's feathers with tobacco, btw. That's just asinine.
>>2049504 excuse me? I mean I guess it's on me for expecting somebody who touches themself while two chickens kick each other to be somewhat literate.
Lol when did I say anything about knowing or not knowing about fighting breeds? I mean, I know of pretty much every breed of chicken, including the ones that were originally bred for fighting. You know, a primitive fuckfest of a 'sport' that civilized culture has moved on from since the 18th century.
>>2049526 >You wish it did animal rights bitch. ? >And you know nothing about chickens. Why, because I don't get my rocks off watching them kill each other? >You are just some kneckbeard who thinks he does. >kneckbeard You seem like a very intelligent person.
Save up your cockfighting money and go to school or something.
>>2049535 Boo hoo hoo the chickens are fighting. > don't get my rocks off watching them kill each other. Look, take your dick out of what ever animal you are getting your rocks off with they don't have the same thoughts and feelings as we do. I have two degrees. How about you. Honestly, you need to quit whining about something you know nothing about.
>>2049555 I'm sorry that I'm a modern day human that respects animals and other living things. Forcing two animals to kill each other for your entertainment is not respectful to the animal or to you.
And yes, they do. I promise you that your shitty gamefowl feels pain and hurt the same way you would if you got kicked in the chest by a spike. They may not have deep complex thoughts but they experience the same basic feelings as any other animal, including humans.
>I have two degrees. How about you. ????
And I'm sorry I'm not particularly well-versed in the "finer points" of animal cruelty. I'm just stating that you are a cruel and ignorant human being for doing what you do and enjoying it. There's no debating that, it's simply a fact.
>>2049595 I mean, you can think whatever you like, it's not an opinion. It's just a fact that forcing two animals to fight to the death for your amusement is cruel. That's not arguable, but you keep acting like it is, my good friend.
And I have? Is it possible that you haven't been reading my replies? I think it's just common knowledge that cockfighting, just like dog fighting and any other "blood sport" is inhumane. There's a reason it's illegal in most of the developed world.
Your argument has consisted of calling people my little pony fans and shouting 'bitch' like it means something. That and claiming that we can't argue about because "we just don't know anything about it".
>>2049619 And most of the people in the world don't truly know jack shit about the subject matter, nor do they care to.
Developed animals have pain receptors in their bodies and brains. If you get kicked in the head, it hurts a lot. If a chicken gets kicked in the head, it hurts the chicken a lot. It doesn't matter what people can "agree on". Facts are facts. I know people that think dinosaurs didn't exist.
>>2049614 LOL. I'm sorry dude you must have me really confused with someone who actually give a shit about what you think and feel about Cockfighting or animal cruelty for that matter. I'm just bored and like it when other people whine about it. Your argument to me is nothing. I have heard it all before. The same old pathetic Cockfighting is cruelty shit. Doesn't bother me. I just like hearing people whine about it.
>>2049631 Okay dude, I never asked you to take me seriously. You can just be as edgy as you want not caring, I already stated that I understand that you will not change. Like I've said *multiple* times, I'm just letting you know that you're a cruel, unlikeable poor person who enjoys animal cruelty. I'm not asking you to change, I know you won't, you're far too ignorant for that. That was clear from the moment that you said that cockfighting was your past time.
If my argument truly is nothing to you, then act like it and stop responding. You are not among like-minded people at all.
>>2049642 >That could be argued. of course it could, and it has. For thousands of years. I think Plato argued it. >you cannot argue that without taking the broad-spectrum side that I stated above false dichotomy. in fact it's very easy to argue a middle ground, as all scientists do.
the ability to feel pain evolved at some point in animal history. Sponges don't feel pain, you do.
somewhere between sponges and you the ability evolved.
you say it's present in "advanced animals," but you don't have any compelling evidence that's true.
just your blind faith and anthropomorphization. Neither of which are facts.
roosters are cocky asses. hens are cool and funny though, plus the tasty eggs. they only get bitchy when they wanting to find nest for laying dem eggs, and get very noisy for announcing the finishing of each egg pooping session. I wish I had more yards just like my childhood home.
>>2047224 Vegans are fucking retards. Allowing chickens to eat their own eggs promotes cannibalism of fertile eggs and chicks. You shouldn't be encouraging it. Chickens are probably the single greatest argument AGAINST veganism because they're going to lay unfertilized eggs whether you want them to or not and they'll either simply rot or be eaten by the hen which makes them more prone to eating their own eggs (an emphatically bad thing).
>>2050837 in my country 30 bucks are equal to two hundred pr chick, you can get a dog for cheaper than a chicken, and as i said who want only one chicken? to be able to enjoy them you have to have at least 10 and then it'll be almost 300 dollars, they are not cheap, they are lovely but not cheap
> Chickens are probably the single greatest argument AGAINST veganism because they're going to lay unfertilized eggs whether you want them to or not and they'll either simply rot or be eaten by the hen which makes them more prone to eating their own eggs (an emphatically bad thing).
I don't think we should be breeding and keeping chickens to begin with, and most eggs come from factory farms where the chickens are tortured, so I don't want to support that industry. Even "free range" chickens aren't normally kept in the best conditions, and even if they were I still think keeping animals is ethically questionable.
And on egg farms, male chicks are sorted out and fed through a macerator and I don't want to support that.
>>2050849 Well, to be against keeping chickens as pets, you need to be against all pets too. Just saying. You can't just pick chickens because they make food. And agribusiness does even plant food unethically, so arguing that "Oh well factory farming does X, therefore Y is bad" is a horseshit argument.
>>2044174 +Easy to manage +Lead to all kinds of fun projects; coops, chicken tractors, etc. +Inexpensive if you aren't stupid +Gorgeous +Fun to watch +You will NEVER NOT HAVE EGGS +Those eggs will be the tastier and higher-quality than you would have ever thought possible +make adorable cluckity noises +won't tear up your couch or track mud indoors because they're outside +FREE FUCKING EGGS (with the purchase of chickens)
-They shit a bit -Roosters can be dicks +You can eat them then
>>2050858 Chickens kept on small scale are living nothing resembling anything less than charmed lives, so long as the males aren't killed for being male. Humans need some sort of animal food source at least for micronutrients. Veganism is literally only possible with laboratories. Otherwise you die. If you actually want to cause the least suffering, there is no difference between eating plants and consuming products that cause no animal death that come from animals such as unfertilized chicken eggs and dairy from places that don't just wantonly kill male animals. And taking some milk from a dairy cow is not hurting a calf, so don't try that argument either. No dairy farmer is going to take so much milk from a cow that they just let the calves go without. Not even in agribusiness. It's just stupid. Most vegan arguments are without merit for the same reason that most animal rights arguments fall flat on their face - because most people who argue them are retarded zealots who abandon facts and logic to fight a holy crusade, and then end up discrediting themselves with stupidity like saying that something without an embryo that is simply going to rot (even in the wild) is an unethical food source. And I feel I need to reiterate - encouraging ANY bird to eat its own eggs trains that hen to cannibalize its own offspring, so they shouldn't be eating them anyway. Chickens are literally as ethical as plant foods if you care for them properly. The only casualties are bugs, worms and other invertebrates the chickens may eat. But if you in any way keep insect pests off your garden, it's the same exact result.
>Chickens kept on small scale are living nothing resembling anything less than charmed lives, so long as the males aren't killed for being male.
I'm pretty sure every commercial chicken farm kills most of the male chicks, and also kills the hens after they stop laying. I am sure there are some chicken hobbyists who do give their chickens a good quality of life and don't kill any of them, but those who depend on chickens for their livelihood surely end up killing a lot.
>Humans need some sort of animal food source at least for micronutrients. Veganism is literally only possible with laboratories.
Yes, we need Vitamin B12, which is either produced in laboratories by micro-organisms, or comes from animal foods. If it weren't for modern science I could see an argument for keeping chickens for the B12 in their eggs, as an alternative to hunting or eating meat.
>And taking some milk from a dairy cow is not hurting a calf, so don't try that argument either. No dairy farmer is going to take so much milk from a cow that they just let the calves go without.
Most dairy farms are factory farms where the cows are tortured. Oftentimes calves are taken away from their mothers and sent to be used for veal. And cows are killed after they stop producing milk, because keeping them alive longer wouldn't be economically advantageous.
The ultimate fate of pretty much every cow on a commercial dairy farm is the slaughterhouse.
>Most vegan arguments are without merit for the same reason that most animal rights arguments fall flat on their face - because most people who argue them are retarded zealots who abandon facts and logic to fight a holy crusade...
I haven't done that, have I? You seem to be the one getting upset here, not me.
>>2050875 >I'm pretty sure every commercial chicken farm What'd I already say about this? Commercial soy farms burn down rainforest. What's your fucking point?
>If it weren't for modern science Your philosophy is literally pampered nonsense. The SECOND our technology drops below the ability to synthesize cyanocobalamin, you vegans ALL DIE. And don't think for a second that it won't. End of history is myth, not reality. All civilizations fall and ours is on its way out as we speak due to rampant corruption, evil and incompetence. Veganism is an unrealistic view typical of a stupid, fat, lazy, pampered society. And I'm a vegetarian saying this. You vegans discredit vegetarianism just as surely as animal rights loonies and global warming alarmists have discredited the environmental movement and made anti-environmentalism the hot commodity it's become.
>Most dairy farms are factory farms where the cows are tortured. You keep repeating "muh factory farms". Why? Are you illiterate? I know you know I've adressed this multiple times now. Small scale, ethical agriculture is NOT agribusiness factory farming. They're not even in the same realm.
>I haven't done that, have I? Actually, you have, by consistently ignoring my point that factory farms =/= backyard agriculture OVER AND OVER again. You wouldn't be a vegan if you weren't a zealot. FACT.
>You seem to be the one getting upset here, not me. Of course I'm upset. Stupid lunatics who don't know the first thing about what they're talking on have thoroughly discredited by association every group and category I belong to. I take great offense to the harm you do to MY movements just as surely as I despise alarmist "climate scientists" who consistenly lie about global warming and have successfully helped society forget that species destruction and pollution are the two greatest threats to the biosphere and have succeeded magnificently in discrediting the environmental movement to a very large degree.
>What'd I already say about this? Commercial soy farms burn down rainforest. What's your fucking point?
My point is that I don't think chicken farming is a good thing. It causes a lot of suffering.
The overwhelming majority of soybeans grown in the world are grown as fodder for livestock. If we didn't raise chickens, presumably we wouldn't have to grow so many soybeans. I don't like the idea of rainforest being cut down for agriculture at all, although to some degree it will be necessary. I'd like to see it kept to a minimum.
>Your philosophy is literally pampered nonsense.
We have the technology to produce B12 in the laboratories, and it's already being done on a massive scale. Even most meat-eaters get a lot of their B12 from synthetic sources.
>The SECOND our technology drops below the ability to synthesize cyanocobalamin, you vegans ALL DIE. And don't think for a second that it won't. End of history is myth, not reality.
That might be relevant in the future, but it's not relevant now.
>Veganism is an unrealistic view typical of a stupid, fat, lazy, pampered society.
This is just a lot of vitriol and anger. Vegans are a tiny minority of a minority; the majority of people in our "pampered and stupid" society eat meat from factory farms.
You're so remarkably hateful that it's clouding your ability to debate me. You keep spewing personal attacks instead of going point by point and talking to me. If you try to calm down and read your posts, you'll see this.
>And I'm a vegetarian saying this. You vegans discredit vegetarianism just as surely as animal rights loonies and global warming alarmists have discredited the environmental movement and made anti-environmentalism the hot commodity it's become.
I'm doing no such thing. I think lacto/ovo vegetarianism is a good thing but if u c it as morally superior to veganism (under the current paradigm) then I think your views will end up being inconsistent The dairy industry is tightly linked 2 meat
>You keep repeating "muh factory farms". Why? Are you illiterate? I know you know I've adressed this multiple times now. Small scale, ethical agriculture is NOT agribusiness factory farming. They're not even in the same realm.
I'm not saying they are the same.
>You wouldn't be a vegan if you weren't a zealot.
What counts as a "zealot"--someone who disagrees with you?
Even small-scale dairy farms kill the cows after they're too old to give milk.
Also, please understand that the character limit prevents me from making my posts just as I'd like them.
As far as rearing chickens goes, I don't think it's a good thing under the current paradigm because I don't like the idea of animals being kept or bred in captivity. I don't like the idea of animals as property.
The whole reason I got into this discussion with you, though, is because I took exception to your claim that vegans are idiots. I'm not an idiot and my reasons for abstaining from dairy and eggs are consistent.
If I had a rescue chicken and she laid eggs, would I maybe stop being technically vegan and eat her eggs? Maybe. But that's not my situation, so I'm vegan, for ethical reasons.
If I were in a post-apocalyptic scenario, would I raise chickens for eggs? Most likely, yes. It would reduce or eliminate my need to kill animals for food. But that's not my situation.
>>2050904 >My point is that I don't think chicken farming is a good thing. Yes, because you're basing your argument on factory farm practices. I won't address you after this because it's clear you can't fucking read and you're wasting mine and everyone else's time here.
>The overwhelming majority of soybeans grown in the world are grown as fodder for livestock. If we didn't raise chickens, presumably we wouldn't have to grow so many soybeans. I don't like the idea of rainforest being cut down for agriculture at all, although to some degree it will be necessary. I'd like to see it kept to a minimum. Yet more shit about agribusiness and factory farming. Do you eat soy products? Being a vegan, even if you don't, I would estimate that most vegans do.
>That might be relevant in the future, but it's not relevant now. You're right, and I'm in favor of it, but veganism is still retarded for this and many other reasons, If your diet requires a lab to keep you alive, you're doing something seriously wrong.
>This is just a lot of vitriol and anger. No, it's more than that. It's angrily addressing your level of blatant stupidity and disregard for facts while you continue to just drone on with the talking points you've got memorized by heart while ignoring the actual arguments being leveled against your idiocy. Literally everything you say is "muh factory farms!" as the reply to any argument, even when it's not related or relevant, as you've been told MULTIPLE TIMES NOW.
>>2050909 >>2050980 >>2050906 >What counts as a "zealot" Someone so stupid they can't argue the point and keep repeating rehearsed lines about factory farming, for one.
>As far as rearing chickens goes...I don't like the idea of animals being kept or bred in captivity. I don't like the idea of animals as property. That's literally the only argument you have, but you refuse to stick with it and keep referencing factory farm practices which have nothing to do with the discussion.
>I took exception to your claim that vegans are idiots Boy, you sure proved me wrong too, by constantly shouting "muh factory farms" in a discussion of fucking backyard chicken keeping.
>Yes, because you're basing your argument on factory farm practices.
No, I'm also basing my argument on the idea that I don't think it's ethical to keep animals as property (unless perhaps doing so is done for the sake of averting a greater evil).
But factory farming is the main source of animal based foods. I am vegan. You called me an idiot. I'm working on two separate lines here--to demonstrate that no, I'm not an idiot, and secondly to explain why I don't like the idea of animals as property.
>Yet more shit about agribusiness and factory farming. Do you eat soy products? Being a vegan, even if you don't, I would estimate that most vegans do.
Yes, I do.
>You're right, and I'm in favor of it, but veganism is still retarded for this and many other reasons, If your diet requires a lab to keep you alive, you're doing something seriously wrong.
Why? Most meat eaters and most vegetarians consume loads of fortified foods. You have to actively try not to eat them, if you live in the US. I'd get enough B12 from fortified foods even if I didn't try to eat them. Animal foods are superfluous to me.
If that changed, then my diet would also change. But that hasn't changed, so it doesn't need to.
>No, it's more than that. It's angrily addressing your level of blatant stupidity and disregard for facts while you continue to just drone on with the talking points you've got memorized by heart while ignoring the actual arguments being leveled against your idiocy. Literally everything you say is "muh factory farms!" as the reply to any argument, even when it's not related or relevant, as you've been told MULTIPLE TIMES NOW.
More rage. If you'd calm down and talk to me like a rational person we could've gotten somewhere, but you weren't up for that. Unfortunate.
I'm vegan because I oppose the idea of animals being kept as property, and I especially oppose factory farming. I understand that not all farms are factory farms. I never said otherwise.
Sweet jests who knew cute chickos could cause so much arguing. Reminds me of something I'm going through with a "friend" right now
I posted earlier in the thread about how some kind of cat (either a bobcat or a large feral cat) killed one of my chickens and mauled another. There's a pic earlier in the thread of the damage.
>put out box trap with cat food in it >yesterday I caught a massive black feral tom that I've seen around for a while now >highly aggressive, diseased looking, completely wild but huge >I can guarantee this is the killer >regardless, it's a feral cat and henceforth a pest >I quickly drown it off and toss the body >mention it to my buddy yesterday when in conversation >he brings it up to his kitty cat hugbox gf Keep and mind that her and I have been friends since high school. She has like 20 stray, unaltered stray cats that she keeps outside in the countryside and feeds. No vets, nothing. But guys, she 'LOVES' them. Anyway >she's fucking LIVID that I killed a feral cat >regardless of the fact that I'm now cleaning the greasy wounds of one of my beloved chickens >"anon we can't be friends anymore now that I see what a monster you are" >like she's putting me on blast >says I don't really love animals like she does >I have 25 animals under my care, reptiles, amphibians, arthropods, dogs, everything >I pay for them, feed them, take hours of my time away to care for them >I even care for this friendly little stray kitty that my mom decided to get because she saw a mouse in the barn >and yes, I love them >she has some shitty outside strays that she feeds >"YOU DON'T REALLY LOVE THEM ANON, YOU CAN'T LOVE THEM LIKE I LOVE MY CATS" >"YOU 'LITERALLY' HAD NO REASON TO KILL IT" >it was an aggressive unaltered feral tom, if I didn't kill it, any shelter would. >it could never be rehomed and was a diseased nuisance animal >"YOU SHOULD HAVE BUILT A HIGHER FENCE AROUND YOUR CHICKENS, IT'S YOUR FAULT" >"OH BUT YOUR CHICKENS AREN'T PESTS"
>>2051577 >"anon we can't be friends anymore now that I see what a monster you are" I get that some people like to help the mentally disabled, but you don't HAVE to be friends with them. It will be okay.
>"YOU SHOULD HAVE BUILT A HIGHER FENCE AROUND YOUR CHICKENS, IT'S YOUR FAULT" >"OH BUT YOUR CHICKENS AREN'T PESTS" Why don't you show the dumb bitch this:
Or bring up how many SPECIES feral cats have made extinct when released into the wild. If she "loves animals" so much, she should care. I LONG ago realized that when an American says they're an "animal lover" that means they're a dog and cat lover and POSSIBLY a horse lover, but nothing else. Domestic cats and dogs are one of the biggest plagues humans have ever unleashed on nature and EVERY humane society in existence is overrun with cats and dogs because of people like your disabled friend.
>>2051609 I actually recently did a project with one part that involved how many bird species have gone extinct because of feral cats ALONE. Not to mention the countless other species extincted that cats took part in.
I tried telling her this stuff but she honest to god will not let a single goddamn thing I say effect her. She's notorious for being ironclad in her viewpoints regardless of legitimate opposition.
I mean for christ's sake I'm a Vet tech major in college. I've loved animals my whole life and anyone who knows me knows that.
>"YOU DON'T REALLY LOVE YOUR ANIMALS BECAUSE IT'S JUST A HOBBY FOR YOU. I CRY WHEN MY CATS DIE I BET YOU DIDN'T CRY WHEN YOUR CHICKEN DIED" Like no shit she actually said this. Yeah nigga I was kinda actually devastated when my one chicken died. You know, the chicken that I raised from a chick, that I nursed back to health after a raccoon attack, I fucking picked maggots out of this chicken's ass. I love all my animals.
And even my buddy, her boyfriend, was sided with me. He was all like "you know like, anon takes his animals to the vet and everything, he feeds them and cleans them" >"UMM YEAH JUST TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE HEALTHY??? HE DOESN'T REALLY LOVE THEM LIKE I LOVE CATS" I really didn't even know what to say. How can you refute such unwavering ignorance.
Like I was being cool at first, yeah some people are just normies, sure she is upset about it, whatever. But when she started slinging shit about how I'm an animal abuser and that I don't even care about my pets, that shit just twisted my ballsack one round too many.
>>2051626 I mean it's crazy. I wish you guys could have seen the look of just pure, venomous hatred she gave me. It was the kind of look a mother would give to a man that molested her kids and got away with it. That's how bad it is, just because I killed some random shitty feral cat.
And she made it out like a "real man" doesn't kill things. My poor buddy, he was trying to stick up for me, he was like "we'll u know I killed a bird once when I was 12". She was just like "yeah but I don't care about birds". Like lol seriously nigga.
It just kinda sucks because she's never acted like this in front of me before and we all hang out a lot during school and after. She's usually pretty cool, but she's always been very ignorant with more than just her disillusioned view of animals.
She has this disgusting old puggle with serious behavioral problems (aggression towards strangers, separation anxiety, obesity, etc) and refuses to acknowledge that something's wrong with it or take my advice on adjusting it's issues. Just as an example.
>>2050708 Fifteen years ago my step dad hasd pet chickens. Hed let them out every day, and one evening one of those ugly fuckers comes in with them. Took us a week to figure out what it was, another week l until it started fighting with the chickens. He ended up dumping her back in the woods. Who even raises these?
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