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Extinction Thread
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You are currently reading a thread in /an/ - Animals & Nature

Thread replies: 60
Thread images: 7
File: vaquita.jpg (9 KB, 259x194) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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Post animals on the brink.

>Pic related, a vaquita, 100 left in the wild. Mexicans are killing them and only Trump can save them.
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Only because people like to collect their shells.
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I wanted to post a picture of a white man as a joke and copy/paste a /pol/ rant but I got lazy. Can you guys pretend I did? Thanks.
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File: chinese-pangolin.jpg (406 KB, 640x348) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
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Those chinks gotta have their fake medicine ya know?

>>2037909
O I am laffin anon
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>>2037909
Well it's true sadly.
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Is anyone collecting as much of their flesh and flash freezing it for the future when we will have the tech to fully regenerate animals from their DNA? Or heck, even collecting their sperm and ovum?
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it isn't exactly hard to save this species, there's a healthy male left and a bunch of closely related sister species.

no one is bothering though, better safe some subspecies first.
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>>2037968
Yes it's called the frozen ark project
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>>2037971
>save this species
>with hybridisation

this is why you don't have a science degree
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>>2037981

Any ETA on the restoration? I would think if they got enough sperms and eggs they could even use those with todays biotech/husbandry infrastructure, no?
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>>2037991
>with todays biotech/husbandry infrastructure
no, because there's no profit in that.
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>>2037982
Not them but so long as their ecological function is the same and their genetics live on to some degree what is the problem with hybridization as a last ditch effort to save a population from inbreeding or extinction?

People complain about bison with minor cattle genes but how much does that really effect the beast if it looks and acts like a bison?
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>>2037996
I don't see this as a no-no. The genetic information goes on. But the choice of species should be made very carefully (probably more carefully than we are currently capable of).
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>>2037996
Because muh genetic purity
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>>2037982
>hybridisation is a bad thing.
and that's why you don't.
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>>2037982
If the choice is have hybrids, or have the species completely extinct, why the hell wouldnt you take the hybrids?
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>>2038005
more like why would you take completely extinct.
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>>2037982
Hybridisation also happens in nature.
Are you going to call God/Darwin a total fag for this?

>>2037991
>Species disappear.
>Re-introduce it.
>The things that make it go away didn't disappear/get corrected, they disappear again.
gg anon
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>>2037935
Why is it the adorable things that die out so quickly
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>People ITT unironically want to release hybrids of animals into the wild without knowing it's ecological impact.

Nature can deal with extinctions, specially in rain forests. Worst it's to introduce something different into the ecosystem. Just because hybridization occurs in nature doesn't make it ok to do it.

>>2038012
>god/darwin

AHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH
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>>2038059
>Worst it's to introduce something different into the ecosystem
tell me when this has ever been an issue.
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>>2038060
>>2037345
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>>2038060
you are probably baiting or being devil's advocate, but if you could cite one introduced animal that didn't I would appreciate it

pic related; but ofc what people are saying it's completely different from the cane toad example. Either way, we don't have any way to know if a hybrid of animals in the same genus wouldn't be more fit than it's parent species, potentially leading one of it's parent specie to extinction as well. See my point?
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>>2038063
canetoads aren't hybrids.

when have hybrids introduced to the area their relatives were native to ever caused a problem?

or just naturally occurring hybrids, that's fine too.
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>>2038074
http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Wild-Lizards/Californias-Super-Salamander-Dilemma/
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>>2038074
I don't know of any instance of that happening; where hybrids are introduced. But it is possible for hybrids to have a better fitness than it's parent species and out-compete other animals in it's ecosystem. Ofc the reverse can also occur, but without previous studies on the matter before introducing, it's a bad gamble for everyone.

There are hybrids in nature, some examples are the Pelophylax and Ensatina complexes, both deal with anuran and urodele hybridization to some degree.

>>2038078
Thanks for the link. To the first poster, this is an example of an hybrid having better fitness than it's parent species.
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>>2037935
god damn it why
i love pangolins so much i wish i had money so i could pour it into saving the little guys
god this stresses me out when i think about them :(
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>>2038002
I didn't say that.
Again: no wonder you don't have a degree with this reading comprehension. Back to preschool.
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>>2038012
>Hybridisation also happens in nature.
That's the point. Manmade hybrids should not be released into nature.
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>>2038060
>tell me when this has ever been an issue.
wildcats going extinct because of interbreeding with domestic cats
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>>2038164
Don't be too mean to him. He's just a mentally rather slow gardener, how would he know
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>>2038078
thanks, but do you have anything that doesn't smell incredibly fishy?

this looks like an exaggerated clickbait newsstory.
>>2038164
why complain about hybridisation if it isn't a bad thing?
>>2038168
domestic cats and wildcats are the same species, theyre not hybrids.
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>>2038196
No they aren't.

Wild cat it's Felis sylvestris and the house cat it's Felis catus.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7998.2008.00479.x/full

>http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7998.2008.00479.x/full

what sounds fishy about it?

http://www.pnas.org/content/104/40/15793.short

A. californiense has a limited range compared to the invasive specie, and it has to compete for resources with the hybrid, which can lead the parent specie to extinction.

Wild hybridization isn't a bad thing. But human influenced hybridization is.
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>>2038220
shit, meant to greentext this

>do you have anything that doesn't smell incredibly fishy?
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>>2038196
>why complain about hybridisation if it isn't a bad thing?
If you create a hybrid then it's not the original species anymore. If a GSD fucks a labrador, are the puppies still 100% lab?
Besides, naturally occurring hybridisation is a part of evolution - human fucking around is not.

>domestic cats and wildcats are the same species, theyre not hybrids.
notice the "domestic" part. it's like saying wolves and dogs are the same.
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>>2038220
>Wild cat it's Felis sylvestris and the house cat it's Felis catus
the different species is an old taxonomic rule that required renaming domestic species to differentiate them from their wild counterparts.

modern cladistics dispenses with the rule and synonymizes the species.

So Canis fimiliaris is now Canis lupus familiaris, it's no longer a separate species just because it's domesticated.

Likewise Felis catus is now Felis sylvestris catus. The same species as its wild counterparts, just a different subspecies.
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>>2038222
>it's like saying wolves and dogs are the same
they are the same species.
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>>2038220
>house cat it's Felis catus.
you mean Felis silvestris catus.

they're the same species.
>what sounds fishy about it?
what doesn't.
>are more aggressive and have larger and more voracious appetites
> these mutant hybrids

list goes on, it's written like clickbait, or by someone who knows absolutely nothing about the subject.
>But human influenced hybridization is.
do you have an example of that.
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>>2038228
Depends on the wolves.
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>>2038227
maybe look up the ecological species concept

>The same species as its wild counterparts, just a different subspecies.
>different subspecies
>different
>as in "not the same"
I thought you had an argument?
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>>2038231
Are you retarded or something? Just because the article is badly written doesn't make it less of a problem. Yes I have a example of that. The fucking Ambystoma hybridization you dimbwit. A. mavortium was introduced by us, in the home range of A. californiense. If you are curious about it and want to know more about it look on google scholar for papers on it.

You do realize that any specie of animal in captivity that doesn't have breeding protocols and logs of who breeds with who and who doesn't, and have genetic tests done to correspond to the place they are being released, WILL NEVER be used in reintroduction programs. Wanna guess why?... That's the problem of the wild and domestic cat.

Everywhere I look it says Felis catus, so the genome should be significantly different than the wild one to be recognized as a specie. But it doesn't matter what we call it, truth is, the genomes are different, the behavior is different, and it is a threat to wild animals.

If you can't comprehend that you are either baiting my autism for this topic, or just plain ignorant.
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>>2038227
Alright noted. Still different genes and behavior present regardless.
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>>2038250
>different genes and behavior present regardless.
that's a requirement of domestication.
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>>2038248
>Just because the article is badly written doesn't make it less of a problem
it makes it less credible.
>The fucking Ambystoma hybridization you dimbwit.
do the species they're competing with have any sort of ecological value that the hybrid doesn't have?
>any specie
please stop that.
>That's the problem of the wild and domestic cat.
the problem with wild and domestic cats is humans, not cats.
>it says Felis catus
you're using 'specie' so I can't imagine you looked anywhere at all without realizing how much of a drooler you are.
> the genomes are different, the behavior is different
they're not.

can't figure out whether you're just ignorant or retarded.
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>>2038258
those changes are mostly from being raised in captivity.

not because of genes.
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>>2038265
>those changes are mostly from being raised in captivity.
then the animal is tamed, not domesticated.

domestication in animals requires changing the genome.
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>>2038266
was refering to behaviour alone, not appearance.

a tame animal with some physical changes is still domesticated.
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>>2038261
English isn't my native language so bashing on the stupidest mistakes just to feel superior just shows how much of a tool you are.

>it makes it less credible.

doesn't matter. I doubt the target public of that website are scientific literate people. And by simply overlooking some keywords in there you can make clear what's going on with it. then you can further research it yourself.

>do the species they're competing with have any sort of ecological value that the hybrid doesn't have?

I'm gonna guess they don't. But it doesn't matter, these species are isolated. Also we don't know the impact that the hybrid can have on another species within that ecosystem.

>the problem with wild and domestic cats is humans, not cats.

And you think I don't know that? But why? Because of the feral cats that breed with the wild ones...

>Wild cats aren't different of domestic cats

You are just an ignorant delusional faggot, I wouldn't guess differently.

>>2038265
>>2038269
Epigenetics. An animal raised in captivity will have different expressed genes, and this can further change it's behavior.
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>>2038269
>was refering to behaviour alone, not appearance.
and you're still wrong.
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>>2038271
>English isn't my native language
good, because that's not english.
>doesn't matter.
it does, credible articles are written properly.
>by simply overlooking some keywords in there you can make clear what's going on with it.
I no longer find the link credible after reading the 'keywords'
>I'm gonna guess they don't. But it doesn't matter
yeah, I asked for when it's ever been an issue.
>Also we don't know the impact that the hybrid can have on another species within that ecosystem.
then why are you claiming it's a bad thing.
>Because of the feral cats that breed with the wild ones...
ferals hardly live long enough to reproduce, their colonies are sustained by people their outdoor cats.

people are the issue, not cats, it's a problem that's incredibly easy to solve.
>An animal raised in captivity will have different expressed genes
the only thing many 'domestic' species have is a different coat color.
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>>2038274
tell me the behavioural difference between a wild goose and a domestic one.
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>>2038277
domestic geese are non-migratory and usually flightless.
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>>2038279
>domestic geese are non-migratory
feral geese migrate.
>and usually flightless.
if you didn't figure it yet geese doesn't fly a whole lot in general when they're settled.
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>>2038280
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_domesticated_animals

here's a nice list.

there's many domestic species that are merely a coat color.
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>>2038276
I don't even knew that article had keywords. What i meant is that by simply reading some of it without paying attention you can understand what's going on. i don't care about the website, it wasn't me who linked it even; it still provides a good example of what you asked in the first place.

I claim it is a bad thing because:
-it derives from something induced by us (invasive specie)
-we don't know the full consequences at the local community of what could happen if this hybrid replaced the native specie

That's it. that simple. Even if the hybrid wasn't a problem for the local community of native species, it would still be bad, because we would be loosing a specie and all it's natural history. As I said, A. californiense has a limited range, so it could easily happened.

I have an internship at a natural reserve and we have feral cats thriving here without any help; so i don't get your point.

>the only thing many 'domestic' species have is a different coat color.

you truly are delusional.
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>>2038283
>I don't even knew that article had keywords.
I didn't either hence 'keywords'
>by simply reading some of it without paying attention you can understand what's going on
I don't trust information on hybrids from people who call them mutant hybrids.

we don't live in a cartoon.
>-it derives from something induced by us
appeal to nature.
>-we don't know the full consequences at the local community of what could happen if this hybrid replaced the native specie
appeal to ignorance.
>it would still be bad, because we would be loosing a specie and all it's natural history
how is this a bad thing.

they're isolated species with no ecological value.
>a natural reserve and we have feral cats thriving here without any help
tells me a lot about the quality of your 'natural reserve'
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>>2038261
okay, confirmed for troll. nobody is this retarded (except maybe buggay)
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>>2038413
the person you're talking to is bugguy.
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>>2038284
I really hope you're not older than 12-13, because based on your arguments you are mentally on that developmental stage.

>inb4 fite me
i don't argue with wankstains
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>>2038060
Oryctolagus cuniculus in Australia. Not only do they fuck with wombats and other species but are causing serious erosion issues
Thread replies: 60
Thread images: 7
Thread DB ID: 434668



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