Spiders

they're expensive, hard to find, and if you find them they're mostly wildcaught.

and wildcaught swamp spiders are the hardest to keep in the hobby and you'll end up killing them.

so stick to Grammostolas buddy.

>>2024942

i know what you mean about hard to find, in the UK the only place i can get them says every 6 months they get one or two in if they're lucky.

>>2024944
yeah, those are all wildcaught, probably already dying when they arrive in the store due to internal parasites and the majority of wildcaughts are adult males that don't have much time left anyway.

you'll end up with a dead spider.

even if you get captive bred Theraphosa species they're still tricky to keep.

you can order them online on bugzuk, I've used that site before, they have a pretty neat collection and the prices are good.

>>2024947

will check them out

thanks pal

>>2024948
start with a nice Brachypelma or something.

they're easy to keep.

>>2024951
Or if you really want a monster get an LP (lasiodora parahybana). They get almost as big and they're easier to keep.

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>>2025246
they're not easier to keep, it's about the same.

I have a B. smithi that's about 22 cm, it's not like Brachypelmas are small anyway.

>>2025247
Lasiodora parahybana is vastly easier to keep than any Theraphosa species. Maybe you thought he was saying they are easier than Brachypelmas?

>>2025246
>>2025247
Sorry, I meant they're easier to keep than Theraphosa species.

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Buy a desert centipede.

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>>2025425
they're easier than those, yeah.
>>2025747
bad choice for beginners unless they like being nailed to the floor in agony.

>>2024939
>I've had an 'chile rose' years ago
>Gimme a Goliath
Bro, you're being fucking stupid. Read the comments above, and more importantly, read up on this species. They're extremly tricky; you can kill them in various of untaught of ways. Fx. wrong diet will keep them early, and so will the wrong humidity. Or if the tank is wrong, they might even kill themself (happens often; they're not to clever, fat and fragile). And they can move quickly.

I would recommend you to look for L. parahybana, IF you're looking for the intimidating size. More forgiving species (but often quiet mean). Have fun.

>>2025773
*kill, not keep.

>>2025773
>wrong diet will keep them early
their diet isn't any different than other tarantulas.

it's just that dumb cunts like to feed them mice to show off.

>>2025778
Exactly. And by listening to OP, that might be an possibility.

Get a salmon pink!! They're big!! Cheap!!! Common!!!

>>2025778
Wow no one is around when I feed mine so
>your fucking wrong

>>2026314
Correction: Most people feed them to show off, some people do it because they like to watch to be edgy, and some people do it because they're entirely clueless of proper tarantula nutrition.
You're at least one of the three.

>>2026314
>I do a dumb thing for no reason
your certificate of accomplishment is in the mail.

>>2024939
That is fucking terrifying.

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>>2026728
She fells the same way about you.

>>2025246
>>2025406
>>2025425
>>2025752
>>2026276
Agreed, pic related.

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should I get new tarantulas? I've got a ton of empty enclosures.

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>>2026781
What about a non-theraphosidae mygalomorph? Trapdoor spides, funnel web "tarantulas", and other mygalomorphs are often ignore by both true spider and tarantula hobbyists.

Pic related.

I also like Liphistius ornatus as a trapdoor.

>>2026815
both are basically keeping jars of dirt as pet.

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>>2026781
get jumping spiders

>>2026781
That looks like one comfy retreat. Which species is it?

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>>2026820
they don't live long and I've got plenty in my garden.

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>>2026825
P. murinus.

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>>2026817
>Linothele
>Jar of dirt
Did you even look them up? This is not a jar of dirt. If you think this is boring you must not like GBBs, OBTs, or other webby Ts.

Also Liphistius ornatus is a little better than most trapdoors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9OtvQkSfuw

Also there are purse web spiders, the Andalusian funnel web spider, dwarf tarantulas. A lot of cool Mygalomorphs exist that aren't just typical Ts.

>>2026831
I've kept them, instead of dirt it's a jar of webs.

I still have a bunch of dwarf species.

>>2026834
May be you shouldn't get anything, you don't seem very interested in them. Most Ts hide, I never got the "jar of x" complaint. Even the most colorful Brachypelma isn't much fun to look at generally, a trapdoor at least has interesting behavior.

>>2026836
probably because tarantula keepers get excited over nothing a lot.

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Here's a picture of my curly hair's somewhat impressive tunnel work. I got it as a 1/2"/1.2cm sling about 2 and half years ago. It's about 2.5inch/6cm now. I think mine might be growing slower than usual.

people who are into keeping bugs are fucked in the head 2bh

>>2027064
people who are into keeping cats are fucked in the head 2bh

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>>2026766
Jesus Christ
What do you even do with a pet spider?

>>2027086
You feed it and it looks cute and fluffy. Unlike cats it doesn't bite or make you sneeze or demand attention at 3am.

>>2027080
nope cats are normal domesticated sentient pets

spiders are the devils construct

>>2027100
>Domesticated
Bitch, they can survive just fine with out you and attack for what appears like no reason. They are wild animals unlike dogs or sheep. Ferrets are more domesticated than they are.

>devils construct
Coward, would you run if I showed you a moth?

Cats are not normal, don't let /an/ encourage this misconception.

>>2027103
>Cats are not normal
This
Dogs on one hand essentially evolved to be man's best friend

Cats are just random af, and keeping them around for any other purpose than pest control is Egyptian tier cat worship

>>2027100
>sentient pets
No. Elephants, whales and maybe some great apes could be sentient
Cats are not fucking sentient

>>2027064
>tfw kind of like keeping roaches more than keeping reptiles
>tfw husband is terrified of insects

I just keep sneakily getting more without him knowing. It's not like roaches are hard to hide. I'll never be able to have a spiderbro, though.

>>2027178
Get a trapdoor spider. It hides for you.

>>2027179
He's extremely terrified of spiders, mildly for roaches and other insects. I'm getting a bumblebee millipede in the spring and seeing if he can tolerate that, but I don't think he'll ever tolerate spiders.

>>2027080
they literally are due to toxoplasmosis.

>>2025247
Aren't you people worried about the tarantula biting you?

How do you know they won't bite you?

>>2027544
Watch this, these are 2 idiots trying to get bitten. Basically it's like getting stabbed with a fork. Not the worst thing ever. The hairs they kick can be worse than the bites.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSnTkGqAT9M

>>2027553
So basically you have to try really really hard to piss off the tarantula enough to bite you?

>>2027565
For the most popular kinds (read new world) yes. Though there are some more dangerous ones like this one. >>2026781 You won't see people holding those.

>>2027565
pretty much with new worlds.

old worlds will bite you right away, they don't have the hairs as first defence.

their bite is exaggerated though, I've been bitten plenty never had anything that lasted 2 bottles of vodka.

>>2024939
I got a Goliath from an exotic pet store several years back. After a few months it started to walk like it was drunk, having great difficulty moving and feeding. It died a few weeks later. Very sad, as I went to great lengths to create the best habitat for him and something still went wrong.

>>2027589
It was most definitely wild caught and it probably got mistreated on every step of the way. Also depending one where you got you info you may be partly responsible.

>>2027579
Is that nociception?

>>2027097

>doesn't bite

Unless you really piss it off and are ignoring the hairs it flings at you.

>>2027990
You don't need to even remotely piss off a cat and cat hair gets everywhere and effects all your guests. I'd rather contained uricating hairs than guests entering sneezing fits.

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Since we're talking spiders, how hard are N. chromatus to keep? I have a 7 year old smithi that seems to be doing well, so that's my level of expertise.

>>2028168
I'm not expert but I think care wise they are fairly straightforward terrestrials. They just are a more defensive and kick hairs much more often than Brachypelmas. Why did you choose N. chromatus as your second? Definitely a nice looking spider but I thought people usually go for big or colorful on their second.

>>2028197
No real reason, I just think they look neat.

>>2028203
Cool, that's as good enough as a reason as any. I just always thought of LPs, GBBs, or OBTs as the "second spider" for most people.

>>2028204
Shows what I know, the only one of those I didn't have to look up was orange bitey thing. GBBs are pretty though...

>>2028168
my N. chromatus is in hiding almost all the time, so i don't really get to fully appreciate their beauty. of course, individuals will vary.

>>2028213
My B. smithi was fairly defensive for the longest time (quick to kick hair and bite). Her attitude changed completely after her most recent molt, she's now chill and lets me clean old boluses out of her cage without any sort of challenge.

>>2028217
yeah i have noticed a lot of my Ts mellow out as they mature too. when i got my Pamphobeteus antinous as a 2" juvenile, it was hell on wheels. Now she's a big dumpy spider that hangs out and doesn't care about anything. My Nhandu chromatus is an immature male and seems happy to in his burrow, as he did when growing up.

Acanthoscurria geniculata is something you might want to look at if you haven't already. They're more sizable, but sort of look similar to the Nhandu chromatus and tend to be out and about with a huge appetite. If you like size and color, look into the Xenesthis genus. They're pretty skittish and defensive, but ime do mellow out a bit and make an awesome display.

My first T was a Heteroscodra maculata, probably not the best choice given that it's another T that's not visible 99% of the time. I cared for various reptiles growing up and had been specializing in snakes, including defensive ones, for a handful of years before jumping into the invert hobby. Having said that, I think you're fine as long as you have common sense. Ie. not going around prodding a defensive Old World T, always opening up the enclosure in a controlled environment, etc. After keeping many defensive arboreal OW Ts, I'm much appreciative of the beauty and temperament of terrestrial NW Ts now.

>>2024939
avoid imports. they come in less than ideal conditions and often come in with internal parasites including bot fly infestations.

they're a bit sensitive in terms of their humidity requirements, but more importantly have the worst urticating hair they'll flick at you and generally like to cover the cage floor in them.

to be honest, they're just big ugly spiders. the novelty of this big spider wears off quickly whenever you open the enclosure to do maintenance and you're scratching yourself all day from their hair.

buy captive bred if really want to get one. Anastasia Haroldsen from Net-Bugs has captive bred Theraphosa stirmi females.

>>2025778
Theraphosa has been documented to eat mostly earthworms in the wild. there are reports of Pamphobeteus and Xenesthis species eating frogs (although they're also known to have symbiotic relationships with them), which is something that breeders have said might be crucial in terms of getting a vital eggsack out of them. also given that there are terrestrial and arboreal species, not every tarantula will eat the same thing they do in the wild.

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>>2027180
Tell him to quit being such a pussy

>>2026987

Does that path go all the way around?

So what's the appeal of having a pet spider? Wont it flick hairs/bite you if you try touching it?

>>2028242
>in the wild
their survival rate is less than 1% in the wild, nothing should be based soley on 'they do it in the wild'

>>2028718
they perish in the wild due to predation and habitat loss, not because of their diet.

>>2028777
every factor contributes to it, including diet.

>>2028778
>including diet
it's a natural propensity to eat a preferred diet, they aren't becoming detrimental because they eat earthworms. it's obvious you're posturing for a rebuttal by throwing out uninformed statements.

>>2028780
You haven't met bugguy, have you? :^)

>>2028780
>it's a natural propensity to eat a preferred diet
that isn't how they work.

they eat just about anything they can catch, if their diet leans towards something specific it's not because they're looking for it, it's because that's what they stumble upon the most.
>they aren't becoming detrimental because they eat earthworms
they're not succesfull because they eat them either.

it's obvious you have no understanding of how arachnids work.

>>2028783
>they eat just about anything they can catch, if their diet leans towards something specific it's not because they're looking for it, it's because that's what they stumble upon the most.
anyone with considerable experience with arachnids would know they have a preference, be it roaches,a variety of worms, crickets and sometimes those darkling beetles that make it past the superworm stage.

>they're not succesfull because they eat them either.
taking away the predators and habitat loss, it is the most successful form due to their size potential and evolutionary biology which seems vastly hindered in captivity.

>it's obvious you have no understanding of how arachnids work.
i'm sure a loud and eager to become confrontational self-proclaimed experienced poster like yourself are actually more inexperienced than you'd like to think.

>>2028785
>they have a preference
they aren't capable of subjectivity.

their preference is whatever they get.
>which seems vastly hindered in captivity.
only because they're largely imported directly from the wild and thrown in captivity without any sort of acclimatizing.

they're one of the few species that has trouble maintaining moisture in their exo-skeleton, if the conditions in captivity are different than those they reached maturity in (as most import is adult males) they're not going to do well in it.

diet plays a role in their low survival rate whether you like it or not.

>>2028786
>they aren't capable of subjectivity.
yes they are. from my humble sized collection of 37 tarantulas, about 80% of them have a distinct dietary preference as one can observe in their predatory antics.

>only because they're largely imported directly from the wild and thrown in captivity without any sort of acclimatizing.
>they're one of the few species that has trouble maintaining moisture in their exo-skeleton, if the conditions in captivity are different than those they reached maturity in (as most import is adult males) they're not going to do well in it.
you're confusing humidity requirements and survival rate to size potential and evolutionary biology. in fact, if they had no preference of diet in evolutionary biology, they would all reach the same size given their environmental factors are dialed in by experienced keepers. this is the opposite of what we find in Theraphosa in captivity, as anyone interested and have studied this genus of tarantulas would tell you that is not the case.

>diet plays a role in their low survival rate whether you like it or not.
it's obvious you have no idea what you are talking about, not like to keep typing regardless whether you sound knowledgable or not.

>>2028790
> about 80% of them have a distinct dietary preference
it's imaginary.

your entire concept of arachnids is pretend, you know it's a load of shit.
>if they had no preference of diet
they are incapable of having preference, that requires subjectivity.
>they would all reach the same size given their environmental factors
they wouldn't, that depends on their individual genes as well.

diet is often the cause of death in the first world due to pesticides or parasites, when they're imported from the wild they often carry parasites that end up killing them, you wouldn't know though, because you don't know arachnids.

>>2028790
>yes they are
subjectivity requires consciousness.

there is no evidence of any components of consciousness in arachnids.

get your pseudo-science out of here.

>>2028793
>it's imaginary.
>your entire concept of arachnids is pretend, you know it's a load of shit.
this is coming from some 4chan poster whose entire experience seems to be based on superficial intelligence. you're going to have to give opposing anecdotal evidence at least to have some weight in what you're typing.

>they are incapable of having preference, that requires subjectivity
for readers, please feel free to refer to the branch of arachnology for confirmation
>they wouldn't, that depends on their individual genes as well.
genetic factors are a part of Theraphosa's evolutionary biology which is something I already stated.

>diet is often the cause of death in the first world due to pesticides or parasites, when they're imported from the wild they often carry parasites that end up killing them, you wouldn't know though
they often come in with internal parasites botfly infestations which is propagated by poor diet, environment and added stress.

>because you don't know arachnids.
it's obvious you know far less, but you're fueled by your frail ego of wanting to be right about everything, despite your inexperience.

>>2028796
>please feel free to refer to the branch of arachnology for confirmation
it's your claim not mine.
> which is propagated by poor diet
what did I just say about their diet being a factor in their survival rate?

if you're trying to come off as experienced try not pretending arachnids are conscious, that makes you worse than PETA.

>>2028795
>subjectivity requires consciousness.
psychoanalysis of dietary preference is embedded in instinct. anyone with scientific background can tell you this.

>there is no evidence of any components of consciousness in arachnids.
>get your pseudo-science out of here.
you're imposing words in order to gain a position which does not seem to be in your favor.

>>2028798
>psychoanalysis of dietary preference is embedded in instinct
these instincts have never been recorded in arachnids.

the consensus is that they just eat what they get.
>you're imposing words in order to gain a position
you're misusing terms, subjectivity requires consciousness.

this is ethology, pseudo-science.

>>2028797
>it's your claim not mine.
you didn't have any substantial claims about anything.
>what did I just say about their diet being a factor in their survival rate?
you're negating yourself by agreeing they have an incorrect diet in captivity despite the many many years of evolutionary biology. take a moment to reorganize your thoughts, you need it.

>if you're trying to come off as experienced try not pretending arachnids are conscious, that makes you worse than PETA.
i'm a hobbyist who has keeps tarantulas, centipedes and scorpions. i have anecdotal evidences, compared to your superficial intelligence of peppering everything you're saying as fact, when in actuality it's clear you don't know what you are talking about at all.

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>>2028801
>you didn't have any substantial claims about anything.
you however did, let me help you
>>2028790
>they aren't capable of subjectivity.
>yes they are.

> by agreeing they have an incorrect diet in captivity
that 'incorrect' diet is common in 'the wild'

there aren't a whole lot of animal species except humans that get to eat what they want, and even with us it's only a fraction of the population.
>i'm a hobbyist who has keeps tarantulas, centipedes and scorpions. i have anecdotal evidences, compared to your
what do you think BUGguy keeps, Hemiptera?

>>2028800
>these instincts have never been recorded in arachnids.
>you're misusing terms, subjectivity requires consciousness.
lol despite what you're attempting to say, yes they have.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-6494.1933.tb02072.x/abstract

Whenever you see a big, fat spider, don't you just palm their fat stomach and squeeze it's abdomen until it pops?

At least I do.

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>>2028804
>yes they have.
no, and 'instinct' or 'intelligence' doesn't require consciousness.

by the way, the article you're 'citing' is about insects.

>>2028803
>that 'incorrect' diet is common in 'the wild'
incorrect according to you or the macro and micro evolutionary consequences?

I have a breeding pair of "Scolopendra galapagoensis" I got from my friend "Galapoheros" on arachnoboards in Texas. He suspects they are Scolopendra gigantea and you might be mislabeling yours if they came from the same breeding stock in the US.

>>2028809
>no, and 'instinct' or 'intelligence' doesn't require consciousness.
dietary habits are driven by natural instincts. for the same reason, lions are carnivores and don't mistakenly start to eat grass when they are born.

>by the way, the article you're 'citing' is about insects.
apart from the superficial physiological differences, insects and arachnids have been on the same strata by scientists for many many years.

>>2028809
you're digging up tumblr for a picture of Monocentropus balfouri? lol

>>2028812
>incorrect according to you
you have no reading comprehension if you think that.

incorrect diet is extremely common in the 'natural world', hence why it's always part of the survival rate.
>I have a breeding pair of "Scolopendra galapagoensis''
if I remember correctly they're matriphagic, or that's gigantea, I forgot.

I'm not from the US, and they're not exactly hard to identify.
>>2028814
these aren't recorded in arachnids, again, the consesus is that they eat whatever they get.
>lions are carnivores and don't mistakenly start to eat grass when they are born.
you'd be suprised.
>insects and arachnids have been on the same strata
not by far.
>>2028816
guess who's tumblr that is.

>>2028826
>incorrect diet is extremely common in the 'natural world', hence why it's always part of the survival rate.
survive rate is propelled by habitat loss and predation of the young and it isn't caused by diet. once they make it to the adult stage they are high ranked predators. the mere fact they are abundant in the wild in order for them to be imported in high volumes would indicate their success in evolutionary biology including their diet, whereas in controlled environments in captivity they have been proven difficult to breed.

>if I remember correctly they're matriphagic, or that's gigantea, I forgot.
in a controlled environment in captivity, it's utterly senseless to let mothers die for the young.

>I'm not from the US, and they're not exactly hard to identify.
The key anatomical features of these chilopods are the number of sparsely hirsute(smooth) antennomeres and the number of legs with femoral spurs.
Scolopendra gigantea has 7-10 sparsely hirsute antennomeres, proximal to those that are densely hirsute, and usually numerous legs with femoral spurs. The latter number is highly variable and difficult to determine. Scolopendra galapagoensis, has from 4-7 sparsely hirsute antennomeres and only the first pair of legs with one femoral spur apiece. It can be tricky in some specimens according to scientists, but i'm sure a tumblr know-it-all has it all figured out.

>these aren't recorded in arachnids, again, the consesus is that they eat whatever they get.
consensus according to who? in an amazonian forest floor where Theraphosa genus occur, there are many naturally thriving insects. funny how they seem to have a preference for earthworms out of all of them.

>you'd be suprised.
lions consume grass to ease the indigestion of eating meat, as it's been recorded in the behaviors of felines.

>not by far
closely related systematics and the branch of studies would indicate otherwise, unlike according to a tumblr know-it-all.

>guess who's tumblr that is.
lol

>>2028832
>survive rate is propelled by habitat loss and predation
also part of it.
>and it isn't caused by diet.
you can believe that all you want, it's statistically impossible.
> the mere fact they are abundant in the wild in order for them to be imported in high volumes
it's mostly wandering males, figures they get to reproduce before they're collected so that doesn't mean much if anything.
>whereas in controlled environments in captivity they have been proven difficult to breed.
in the US, but they have trouble breeding anything.

there's no shortage of captive breds here in Europe.
>in a controlled environment in captivity, it's utterly senseless to let mothers die for the young.
have fun trying to control that.
>The key anatomical features of these
the person you got this information from probably got that information from me.
>but i'm sure a tumblr know-it-all has it all figured out.
if you've got captive bred S. galapagoensis, it's likely that they're descendants of mine.

stop trying to appeal to authority or experience, you don't have more than I do.
>consensus according to who?
arachnologists, it's jargon.

it's only expected you don't know because you're not into arachnology, you're a dick that spends too much time shitposting on arachnoboards.
>funny how they seem to have a preference for earthworms out of all of them.
activity often increases after rain, so does the amount of worms.

it isn't all too weird.
>lions consume grass to ease the indigestion
they also consume rocks and whatever else they find as cubs.
>closely related systematics
it only appears similar if you're not into it.

>>2028826
>guess who's tumblr that is.
I'll guess, a gardening queer?

>>2028837
i've been considering to change my trip into that.

>>2028836
>you can believe that all you want, it's statistically impossible.
not everything comes down to the exactness of statistics for it to be true.
>it's mostly wandering males, figures they get to reproduce before they're collected so that doesn't mean much if anything.
males and females are both imported and if you knew anything about the arachnid hobby outside of your own bubble, you would know that imported females are abundant
>have fun trying to control that.
i already did
>if you've got captive bred S. galapagoensis, it's likely that they're descendants of mine.
you're resorting to non-sensical drivel as a means of way out with obvious falsehood. how pathetic and obviously defeated.
>it's only expected you don't know because you're not into arachnology, you're a dick that spends too much time shitposting on arachnoboards.
i don't post on arachnoboards, i know that's an inconvent narrative to your accusation here.
>activity often increases after rain, so does the amount of worms.
including the activities of other insects trying to hydrate themselves, but isn't it odd how they seem to prefer the worms?
>they also consume rocks and whatever else they find as cubs.
it sounds like you've eaten a few yourself
>it only appears similar if you're not into it.
related is not the same thing is similar. anyone who understands systematics can tell you this.

>>2028843
>those mongoloid eyes

>>2028843
A neckbeard, as expected.

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>>2028841
>not everything comes down to the exactness of statistics for it to be true.
you and I both know it's impossible for diet to not influence it, stop trying to argue against it.
>males and females are both imported
it's about a 1 to 50 ratio.
>i already did
how often were you bitten.

I got atleast 3 scars from it.
>you're resorting to non-sensical drivel
there's no need for projecting.
>i don't post on arachnoboards
you're hobo, right?
>but isn't it odd how they seem to prefer the worms?
no they're a whole lot slower than those 'other insects'
>related is not the same thing is similar.
it's about as related as herpetology and mammalogy.

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>>2028844
they're squinty when I smile.
>>2028846
there's virtually no hair in my neck.

stay on topic.

>>2028843
I didn't know Bugguy was cute

>>2028847
>you and I both know it's impossible for diet to not influence it, stop trying to argue against it.
diet is a positive influence and not at all detrimental to do with the survival rate due to the success of this genus according to macro and micro evolutionary.
>it's about a 1 to 50 ratio.
like everything you have written including "and" and "but", false
>how often were you bitten.
>I got atleast 3 scars from it.
anyone who has experience in breeding Scolopendra simple tools to distance yourself in a highly controlled environment is absolutely necessary. being bitten 3 times even in a satirical sense proves you don't know what you are doing or talking about.
>there's no need for projecting.
projecting is a cop out response when it's been nothing but objective truth coming from my behalf including scientific peer reviewed articles.
>you're hobo, right?
you certainly look like one. are you looking for a friend?
>no they're a whole lot slower than those 'other insects'
terrestrial critters are slow moving as opposed to agile arboreal ones. as well, the speed defit of the Theraphosa genus vs. other commonly found prey items works out in the tarantula's favor. one could easily observe this if they have hands on experience with a Theraphosa tarantula from their feeding response.
>it's about as related as herpetology and mammalogy.
relation does not equal similarity in taxonomy, as noted by divergent evolution (look it up). your analogy of relation to similarity to herpteology and mammalogy is flawed because there's no linchpin of comparison.

>>2028849
trip on bugguy

>>2028851
>diet is a positive influence
diet CAN be a positive influence, it can also be negative.
>due to the success of this genus
there's no information available about how they're currently doing in the wild.

you're grasping at straws.
>anyone who has experience in breeding Scolopendra simple tools to distance yourself
you bred them maybe once, I bred them many times, it's going to happen whether you like it or not.
>it's been nothing but objective truth coming from my behalf including scientific peer reviewed articles.
your claim that arachnids are conscious sure was scientific.

the entire field of arachnology is laughing at you.
>one could easily observe this if they have hands on experience with a Theraphosa tarantula from their feeding response.
seen it in the wild.

you're making dumb conclusions as to how they work, based on nothing but your own incompetence.
>relation does not equal similarity in taxonomy
there is no relation.

>>2028858
>diet CAN be a positive influence, it can also be negative.
>there's no information available about how they're currently doing in the wild.
>you're grasping at straws.
the fact they are abundantly found for them to be imported in high volumes indicate they are highly successful, including the dietary habits in their native range. there are no specific conservation measures currently known to be in place for the wild populations of the Theraphosa genus. therefore, this species is of interest to zoos and other collections, and the establishment of captive breeding programmes has been recommended to reduce the collection pressure on wild populations.

>you bred them maybe once, I bred them many times, it's going to happen whether you like it or not.
you have bred them zero times. any experienced keepers of arachnids would understand to take preventative measures and take advantage of your size and intelligence (highly unlikely in your case) to avoid it.
>our claim that arachnids are conscious sure was scientific.
it was about instincts, not conscious as you keep parroting without basis.
>the entire field of arachnology is laughing at you.

>we
>schizophrenic as suspected

>you're making dumb conclusions as to how they work, based on nothing but your own incompetence.
you're making absurd failed attempts at a rebuttal when anyone who's kept a Theraphosa species can tell you how quick they are in their feeding response and it doesn't take slowness of critters for them to have a preference over it.

>there is no relation.
taxonomic relationships are crucial components of systematics. anyone with common sense can tell you this.

>>2028865
>the fact they are abundantly found for them to be imported in high volumes indicate they are highly successful
there's no information available on how they're doing, they could be threatened for all that's known.

many species are threatened, yet the chinese manage to get their hands on boatloads of them.
>you have bred them zero times
don't go projecting again.
>it was about instincts
you claimed they were capable of subjectivity.

do I need to point it out again?
>anyone who's kept a Theraphosa species can tell you how quick they are in their feeding response
they aren't.

they're relatively slow to many of the species I've kept.

they're also slow in the wild.

you're comparing slugs to squids.

>>2028691
They're neat to watch when feeding or "redecorating"

>>2028871
>there's no information available on how they're doing, they could be threatened for all that's known.
if they were so endangered in numbers they wouldn't be on the high volume shipments to pet destinations throughout the globe throughout the year. again accentuating my point their dietary habits in the wild are fit for high volumes of successful breeding.
>many species are threatened, yet the chinese manage to get their hands on boatloads of them.
there's no point but simple absurdity and deflecting in your response. there are many people doing almost anything out there.
>don't go projecting again.
it's obvious to anyone with considerable experience with the Scolopendra genus you do not convey any ability to successfully breed them. it's a simple observation.
>you claimed they were capable of subjectivity.
>do I need to point it out again?
preferences are born out of instincts, i don't know what is so hard to understand about this.
>they aren't.
then you haven't kept any
>they're relatively slow to many of the species I've kept.
they will often jump on their prey items out of massive hunger. ask your tumblr friends.
>they're also slow in the wild.
i have insinuated one way or another their speed difference is noticeable in the wild. again, you are deflecting.
>you're comparing slugs to squids.
slugs are the eathworms, their preferred dietary prey items in the wild and squids would be the Theraphosa tarantula with many legs and eating the slow slugs.

>>2028879
>if they were so endangered in numbers they wouldn't be on the high volume shipments to pet destinations throughout the globe throughout the year.
it's obvious you don't know how the animal trade works and how big it is.
>it's obvious to anyone
like I said, no need for projection.
>preferences are born out of instincts
emotions are born out of instincts.

but they're not instincts, they're the subjective experience of them.

preferences are a subjective experience, you need consciousness for that.
>they will often jump on their prey items out of massive hunger.
arachnids don't have hunger, that's a subjective experience as well.

>>2028884
>it's obvious you don't know how the animal trade works and how big it is.
the high volume of Theraphosa tarantulas in the pet trade would be impossible if they were not successful in their native range, regardless of how the animal trade worked.
>like I said, no need for projection.
>repeats the same thing again when out of ammo
>emotions are born out of instincts.
this has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
>but they're not instincts, they're the subjective experience of them.
so emotions are born out of instincts, but they're not instincts? are you talking out of your ass now?
>preferences are a subjective experience, you need consciousness for that.
i don't think you understand what instinct means in the context of evolutionary biology. it means a natural inclination to prefer one thing over another for the success of their self-preservation which is embedded in their genome.
>arachnids don't have hunger, that's a subjective experience as well.
when a Theraphosa's abdomen is full and will no longer take additional prey items when offered, it's no longer feeling hunger. anatomy organs and their functions are not subjective at all. it's clear to everyone reading this that you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>2028886
>the high volume of Theraphosa tarantulas in the pet trade would be impossible
the high number of elephant tusks too, but here we are.
>this has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
it's the same issue.
>so emotions are born out of instincts, but they're not instincts?
they're not soley instincts, they're the subjective and conscious experience of them.
>i don't think you understand what instinct means
I don't think you understand what subjectivity means.
>it means a natural inclination to prefer one thing over another for the success of their self-preservation which is embedded in their genome.
it isn't recorded in arachnids, like I already stated multiple times.

for all that's known they're mindlessly eating everything they catch, your anecdotes change nothing about that.
>it's no longer feeling hunger
it's never feeling anything.

hunger is an emotion.
> it's clear to everyone reading this that you have no idea what you're talking about.
likewise.

go back to your arachnoboards hugbox and pretend your petty spiders feel da hungry and da happiness.

>>2028895
>the high number of elephant tusks too, but here we are
elephant tusks are not traded in high volumes. in fact it's the legality and the rarity of them that's propelling their value.
>it's the same issue.
it's actually not at all despite how many times you want to bring it up.
>they're not soley instincts, they're the subjective and conscious experience of them.
it has nothing to do with them because tarantulas do not have emotions. you're drawing an absurd comparison to somehow make it into your favor but it's not working.
>I don't think you understand what subjectivity means.
how ironic. everything you have written is subjective yet you are presenting them as complete and accurate information.
>it isn't recorded in arachnids, like I already stated multiple times.
just because you fail to observe something it due to your ineptitude, this doesn't mean it's not there.
>it's never feeling anything
>hunger is an emotion.
hunger is an inherent biological need in all predators.
>go back to your arachnoboards hugbox and pretend your petty spiders feel da hungry and da happiness.
is this where you stay and act like a self-proclaimed expert who doesn't actually know what they're talking about, since you have no where else to dupe people?

>>2028902
>elephant tusks are not traded in high volumes.
you haven't been following the news.
>it's actually not
it is, because hunger is an emotion.
>it has nothing to do with them because tarantulas do not have emotions
you just said they were capable of hunger.
>just because you fail to observe something
your anecdotes don't have any value to me or anyone in science.
>hunger is an inherent biological need in all predators.
you don't know what hunger is.
>is this where you stay and act like a self-proclaimed expert
that's what you've been doing all along.

>>2028909
>you haven't been following the news.
i would hardly call the reported incidents and the presumably "successful" cases of illegal tusk of an endangered species high volume compared to Theraphosa that's being shipped throughout the world at will, throughout the year.
>it is, because hunger is an emotion.
let me make it clear for you. it's a physical need to satisfy the lack of nutrition that's apparent in predators with instincts to survive.
>your anecdotes don't have any value to me or anyone in science.
i don't think you understand the amount of cooperation between the private sector and the scientific communities are happening in arachnids.
>you don't know what hunger is.
next time you feel hungry, you should tell yourself it's an emotional need, not physical. let me know how that goes.
>that's what you've been doing all along.
you have a trip for the purpose of acting like a self-proclaimed expert. the only reason you're attempting at rebuttal is you're afraid to dampen your reputation, which is a little too late.

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>>2028913
>i would hardly call
your opinion doesn't matter.
> it's a physical need to satisfy the lack of nutrition that's apparent in predators with instincts to survive.
let me make it clear to you: these aren't recorded in arachnids.
>i don't think you understand the amount of cooperation between the private sector and the scientific communities are happening in arachnids.
I don't think you understand the issues that come with it.

next time you take psychology 101 classes let me know how it goes.

>>2028915
>your opinion doesn't matter.
it's not an opinion. it's a fact. you can't seem to distinguish between the two at all.
>let me make it clear to you: these aren't recorded in arachnids.
hunger is recorded in arachnids every time a tarantula eagerly takes its prey item. you seem confused about hunger being an emotion. there is such a thing called "emotional eating" which is to eat out of unnecessary needs that leads to people being overweight. it's explicitly forbidden among healthy individuals and not the same thing as physical hunger.
>I don't think you understand the issues that come with it.
i don't think you understand that discoveries and results are often in cooperation of the private sector and the scientists. if they had someone clueless like you alongside, there would be issues. which is why they take people who know what they're talking about with actual hands on experience.
>next time you take psychology 101 classes let me know how it goes.
next time we hear another uninformed opinion, we know it'll be coming from you.

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Bugguy getting out bugguy'd

>>2028920
Indeed, good show.

>>2028672
Yeah, two full sides and half of the back side is all carved out. She also switches her entrance between the straight up tunnel and the piece of wood every two weeks or so. She is very active digger.

>>2028920
You can tell by bugguy's damage control he's winding down

>>2028919
>it's not an opinion. it's a fact.
there's a lot of tusks popping up if you consider how closely monitored elephants are.
>hunger is recorded in arachnids every time a tarantula eagerly takes its prey item
hunger is emotion and arachnids don't have those.

they might have the instinct that causes hunger in us, humans, though, but that's not recorded.
> you seem confused about hunger being an emotion.
there's no confusion about hunger being an emotion, you could find multiple articles about it if you actually looked for it.
> if they had someone clueless like you alongside
instead they have PETA members like you that end up getting the hobby banned with their stupidity.
>>2028920
you mean outshitposted?

I've been busy washing my dog, didn't have much time.

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>>2028926
it usually means I've got better things to do.

>>2028927
>hunger is recorded in arachnids every time a tarantula eagerly takes its prey item
the lack of it is also recorded when they don't eat for months to years at a time.

>>2028927
>there's a lot of tusks popping up if you consider how closely monitored elephants are.
the number of tusks in the illegal trade proportionate to how many they are found in their protected range does not many it high volume in comparison to the number of Theraphosa tarantulas being imported throughout the world.
>hunger is emotion and arachnids don't have those.
>they might have the instinct that causes hunger in us, humans, though, but that's not recorded.
i still don't think you understand there is a difference between physical and emotional hunger with the latter only being apparent in more sophisticated creatures including humans.
>there's no confusion about hunger being an emotion, you could find multiple articles about it if you actually looked for it.
so next time you're hungry, tell yourself there's no need to satisfy your emotional need and not eat. it'll be your physical hunger signalling your brain, if you even have one at this point.
>instead they have PETA members like you that end up getting the hobby banned with their stupidity.
there are many recorded and successful cases of experienced hobbyists field searching alongside scientists for new discoveries and aiding them in understanding their behavior. it's clear you need to do your homework.

>>2028930
>the lack of it is also recorded when they don't eat for months to years at a time.
tarantulas are equipped with the physiology that enables them to go a period of time without food. often it's related to breeding in mature males. different species are noted for being able to go elongated periods and it does not cause any harm. you're trying to say an inverse of what i said when it's a false dichotomy you are presenting.

>>2028927
>you mean outshitposted?
It appears you are the one on the short end of the stick here

>>2028931
>>2028933
Keep up the good work anon, nobody likes bugguy around here

>>2028915
>>2028909
>>2028895
>>2028884
>>2028871
>>2028858
>>2028847
>>2028838
>>2028836
>>2028826
>>2028809
>>2028803
>>2028800
>>2028797
>>2028795
>>2028793
>>2028786
>>2028783
>>2028927
ITT taking definitions from psychology and mistakenly applying them globally to claim insects are incapable or choice in any meaningful way and that they have no behaviors what so ever. Bugguy's failure to understand English has basically resulted in some blatant misunderstandings of invertebrate behavior.

>>2028931
> does not many it high volume in comparison to the number of Theraphosa tarantulas being imported throughout the world.
Theraphosa don't weight 3000 kilos.
>i still don't think you understand there is a difference
there isn't.

all hunger is emotional.
>there are many recorded and successful cases of experienced hobbyists field searching alongside scientists for new discoveries and aiding them in understanding their behavior.
none of them are you, as I've stated.
>>2028933
>tarantulas are equipped with the physiology that enables them to go a period of time without food
mostly because they don't have emotions.
>>2028938
ITT: anthropomorphising insects and arachnids.

there's no mistakes, all definitions I use are right on point.

>>2028945
also the word you're looking for is eros.

it's the life-instinct.

hunger is one of the subjective components of it.

>>2028843
>>2028844

Kek, didn't he say somewhere that he was "proud to be a pure northern European"?

>>2028945
>Theraphosa don't weight 3000 kilos.
in high volumes Theraphosa are imported due to their successful breeding habits coinding with preferred diet of earth worms, they certainly do.
>all hunger is emotional.
if you're eating emotionally, it means you're depressed and wanting to fulfill a need you can't achieve. you should maybe stop that.
>none of them are you, as I've stated.
you said i was a PETA member which is also false, like everything you have written so far.
>mostly because they don't have emotions.
citing the lack of emotions in tarantulas has nothing to do with their physiological capabilities to go without food.

>>2028947
>also the word you're looking for is eros.
>it's the life-instinct
eros is an innate desire to love. tarantulas do not love, they mate driven by their natural instincts.

>hunger is one of the subjective components of it.
hunger has nothing to do with love, unless you are a deviant. i'm not surprised you would be, judging by the lack there of.

>>2028945
>ITT: anthropomorphising insects and arachnids.
If you're falsely applying human psychology to insects and arachnids, you're the one who is anthropomorphizing them.

>>2028948
no, but I've said that I'm partially asian.
>>2028949
>in high volumes Theraphosa are imported due to their successful breeding habits
you've yet to prove that these habits exist, large quanities being exported doesn't mean they're doing well, there's no information available on it, that's never a good thing.

this discussion requires you to understand jargon, but you don't.

>>2028952
>eros is an innate desire to love
it isn't.
>hunger has nothing to do with love
they're both emotions, they've got plenty to do with eachother.
>>2028954
I wasn't the one pretending arachnids are capable of subjectivity.

that was you.

>>2028945
>ITT: anthropomorphising insects and arachnids.
You are doing this by using the definitions of the wrong scientific field.
>there's no mistakes, all definitions I use are right on point.
Off point, Psychological definitions of choice and preference have no place in behavioral biology. You are denying observational fact because of linguistic prescriptivism that isn't even accurate.

>>2028956
>you've yet to prove that these habits exist,

Natural History Museum - Theraphosa blondi (Goliath bird-eating spider) (August, 2013)
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/nature-online/species-of-the-day/biodiversity/loss-of-habitat/theraphosa-blondi/

Nyffeler, M., Moor, H. and Foelix, R.F. (2001) Spiders feeding on earthworms. The Journal of Arachnology, 29: 119-124.

Marwell Wildlife: Animal Encyclopaedia - Goliath bird-eating spider (August, 2013)
http://www.marwell.org.uk/zoo_guide/animal_detail.asp?id=88

Saul-Gershenz, L. (1996) Laboratory culture techniques for the goliath tarantula Theraphosa blondi (Latreille, 1804) and the Mexican red knee tarantula, Brachypelma smithi (Araneae: Theraphosidae). AAZPA Annual Conference Proceedings: 773-777.

>large quanities being exported doesn't mean they're doing well, there's no information available on it, that's never a good thing.
the large quantities of evident Theraphosa species, being imported throughout different pet destination of the world would indicate their success of breeding in their native range.
>this discussion requires you to understand jargon, but you don't.
you haven't used any jargons, just bullshit.

>>2028961
>using the definitions of the wrong scientific field.
I'm using all words in the context they're supposed to be used in.

you're using them in false contexts that they have NOTHING to do with.
>Psychological definitions of choice and preference have no place in behavioral biology.
it's essentially the same thing.

behavioural biology is the psychology of biology.

>>2028960
>it isn't.
it is, look it up before attempting to use terms you don't understand.
>they're both emotions, they've got plenty to do with eachother.
you've already said you were an emotional eater. you look like one too.

>>2028962
>We are redeveloping our website
>Zoo News

neither of those links is working for me, either way both are outdated by now.
> would indicate their success of breeding in their native range.
no, that's an assumption.
>you haven't used any jargons
you wouldn't know.

>>2028966
yeah, please do.

it's all survival/reproductive instincts summed together, it's love when used in human psychology.

>>2028967
>neither of those links is working for me, either way both are outdated by now.
i have given you the resources you are looking for. if you can't pull up the secondary information using a search engine, i'm not surprised seeing how inept you are.

>field observations being outdated by time

>no, that's an assumption.
the numerical values dicate otherwise.

>you wouldn't know.
seeing how you haven't used any jargon, i don't think you do to begin with.

>>2028965
>in the context they're supposed to be used in
Not even remotely.

>Behavioral biology is the psychology of biology
Yet they use entirely different definitions of words because the definitions of Psychology are explicitly designed to apply to HUMANS. Psychology's definitions of the words will never apply to anything but the creatures most similar to humans but behavioral biology's will and do. You're entire argument is depends entirely on you're inability to use English correctly.

>>2028970
>t's all survival/reproductive instincts summed together, it's love when used in human psychology.
eros has never been used outside of human beings and their propensity to love. you're stretching the truth to make a case for yourself, when it isn't there.

>>2028972
>the definitions of Psychology are explicitly designed to apply to HUMANS
wrong, many are specifically designed to refer to the CONSCIOUS experience.

we're just one of the few animals that's conscious, so it appears to apply exclusively to humans.

>>2028974
>many are specifically designed to refer to the CONSCIOUS experience
The conscious experience of HUMANS and only ever HUMANS. The field of psychology is all explicitly HUMAN with NO exceptions.

Psychology: the scientific study of the human mind and its functions, especially those affecting behavior in a given context.

Using the psychological fields terms outside of a human context is ALWAYS incorrect.

>>2028973
>eros has never been used outside of human beings
it's commonly used in ethology.

>>2028977
>The conscious experience of HUMANS and only ever HUMANS
no.

psychology is the study of mind and behavior.

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I just bought a bunch of brachypelma baumgarteni. ive only had a poecilotheria metallica for about a week and im already way into tarantulas

>>2028978
>it's commonly used in ethology.
it's not at all. it's a term describes the human condition. you're confusing your 4chan posts for the actual study of ethology.

>>2028980
it's a study done by humans and therefore will only be applied to enhance understanding of humans. anything else is done by a different branch of studies altogether.

>>2028980
You are completely wrong
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/psychology

>>2028982
>it's not at all
you haven't checked.
>>2028983
you don't understand how science works.
>>2028985
I copy pasted it straight from wiki.

>>2028962
>>2028985
Bugguy
BEAT THE FUCK OUT!
E
A
T

T
H
E

F
U
C
K

O
U
T
!

>>2028987
>you haven't checked.
eros is a term that describes the human's innate desire to love and romance. which is something arachnids are incapable of. where do you think the term erotic stems from? the study of ethology doesn't have anything to do with romance or love.

>you don't understand how science works.
it's funny how you say that, because you don't seem to understand anything, but like to make things up as you go. :^)

>>2028991
>eros is a term that describes the human's innate desire to love and romance
it describes all survival and reproductive instincts.
>which is something arachnids are incapable of
you mean just like they're incapable of subjectivity.

let me point this out again
>>2028790
>they aren't capable of subjectivity.
>yes they are

you're too stupid to understand the topic at hand, not going to bother explaining it to you anymore.

>>2028987
>I copy pasted it straight from wiki
Yeah and nothing on the page contradicts the fact that it is the study of human minds and behavior. I linked you to the best English dictionary. You have to be stupid not to see that psychology is a study of humans.

>>2028992
>it describes all survival and reproductive instincts.
no it doesn't. it describes the human condition for love and romance.
>you mean just like they're incapable of subjectivity.
they're driven by instincts, a natural inclination to prefer one thing over another for the success of their self-preservation which is embedded in their genome. subjectivity a decision and decisions can be made by instincts. just like how birds fly and fishes swim.

>you're too stupid to understand the topic at hand, not going to bother explaining it to you anymore.
>i don't have anything left to say, so i'll dupe anyone i can to make it look like i know what i'm talking about, even though i have the mental capacity of a rock.

>>2028993
>You have to be stupid not to see that psychology is a study of humans.
it takes a real stupid person with a frail ego to argue to be right, when they are clearly in the wrong.

>>2029001
>provides explicit proof that you are incorrect
>claims I have the frail ego

>>2029006
i was talking about bugguy, not bugguy.

>>2029007
Oh, sorry. I just assumed you were him. That is basically how he responds to proof anyway.

>>2028998
>i'll dupe anyone i can to make it look like i know what i'm talking about, even though i have the mental capacity of a rock.

How to Bugguy 101

>>2029011
Good lord!
I don't know why you guys hate buggy so much. Yes he can argue. But he is obviously an experienced keeper who is a reliable, thoughtful, knowledgeable poster. Unless you disagree. Anyway. Idk about that cause I'm here for spiderbro keeping tips! And bugguy, annoying or not, has big pro tips.
Why engage in a useless argument about whether or not we perceive the existence of arachnid consciousness?
Idk why y'all bitches bother

>>2029564
I'm totally serious, btw. I didn't mean for last post to sound so snarky.
I don't think you guys will believe me, but whatever.
Moar spider KEEPING tips please!
I'd be very interested in hearing more about OW T bites, bugguy or anyone else with direct experience ^__^

>>2029566
>I'm totally serious, btw.
> ^__^
no you're not.

>I'd be very interested in hearing more about OW T bites
they're largely exaggerated due to the sheer amount of napoleon complex on most tarantula boards.

just like the size of tarantulas, spastics think they own 9 inch Poecilotherias.

>>2026781
The vicious Baboon Spider. Known for its screeching owl, obsession with grape soda and fresh kfc chicken.

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>>2029873
>nope

>>2027224
Only their kids.

I don't own spiders but I'm fascinated by these threads. What would be the most chill/aggressive species? What are your experiences with aggressive individuals?

>>2031879
Grammostolas and avicularias are the most relaxed ones that I've owned. If you were just starting out, something in the grammostola (sans rose-hairs) family is the best.as they are generally slow and aren't defensive. Avicularias are arboreal and a little bit faster by they too are almost universally non-confrontational and make a good first tarantula.

On the flip side I also own a cobalt blue and have owned bluefangs and horned baboons which are some one of the most defensive tarantulas out there. They're lightning quick too and the venom is more potent than new world tarantulas. You shouldn't handle any tarantula, but that especially applies to old world tarantulas, although some new worlders like the bluefang are generally defensive as fuck.

And remember, this goes on a tarantula by tarantula basis. Although it's unlikely, you will find hostile grammostolas and seemingly relaxed old worlders every once in a while, but generally if a species is known to be docile it generally will be.

>>2029873
The Owner was found dead, four days later in his apartment. This was his last moment before being struck. The Tarantula was never found.
http://voices.nationalgeographic.com/2014/10/20/biggest-spiders-animals-science-tarantulas-south-america/

Don't Own Tarantula
Buy a gun.
For the Safety and Preservation of America.

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>>2033327
>He thinks tarantula's are deadly

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>>2033349
>any spider
>deadly

>>2033352
There has been confirmed deaths by spiders. Although they are pretty rare, and only a handful of species are able to do it, in determined circumstances.

>>2027553
Man...I felt really bad for that spider

>>2033327
That's TarantulaAddict, friendo. He still uploads vids all the time

If you must get one, definitely get a female. They live much longer and I believe they're larger

>>2033439
Do you have the source video? I'm curious how they reacted. It almost looks like the thing took flight when I first watched it.

>>2033505
Generally good advice. My first T is a B. albopilosum sling and although its fun it is pretty slow growing. It's about 2 years old (I got it in May 2014 at 1/2") and only has a 2" leg span. Still I find raising a young animal to adulthood a bit more satisfying and I'm considering getting a second T sling that is faster growing.

>>2033517
Tarantula Feeding Video #39