>>16874200 I believe in God and our Lord Jesus Christ but wouldn't call myself a christian and I was thinking about this:
I think we come from evolution and evolution makes perfect sense to me in a religious way because that would mean that God is so wise that he gave us the ability to adapt to whatever condition the planet is in.
So my question is, why do christians in general refute evolution when it makes perfect sense? And the other would be, why do christians in general think of God as "magical being" as opposed to the greatest scientist ever?
>>16874344 Well, it looks like OP got raptured or some shit. So I would like to take a crack at answering your question. (For the record, I am a UU. Not a Christian, so if your ideology differs, that's A-okay!) And I realize there's a great chance that your post is bait, but even if the question is posed, an answer might help someone.
>Why don't Christians subscribe to evolution theory? It's really simple. Personal religious belief stems more from a sense of identity than it does from ones actual beliefs. When someone goes to church or states that they follow the beliefs of a certain group, they cement themselves within the practices of that group. They say, "this is who I am."
It should be pretty obvious that if someone is yelling something at you and calling you stupid, that it would leave a bad taste in your mouth. Someone that believes in the bible only has two sources with which to seek guidance when something like evolution is presented to them. Either their religious texts, or their community with which they identify.
It may appear obvious for one person to believe one thing or another, but the fact of the matter is that not everyone has had the same life experience or exercises in logic that you have had.
It may appear very clear to most people that the world is round, for instance. But if a group of people suddenly decides that it is actually flat, they are identifying with a contrarian notion. Despite any amount of logical explanation or evidence you put in front of them, if their dedication to the identity of a "flat-earther" is strong enough, they will go to any end to refute it.
>>16874344 There is no proof of evolution on any macro scale and the fact that there are no records of species in between only make evolution less likely. Micro evolution is fine. But believing in macro evolution is retarded religious or not. There is no evidence supporting macro evolution.
>>16874401 First of all, how is my post bait? But anyway, it does make sense but my point was to say that even though I believe in God and I believe that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour, sometimes science is irrefutable; so why can't we have both? Why do we have to take one side or the other?
That's what I meant when I said that I believe that God is the greatest scientist.
>>16874421 So, your post was to make a statement about your beliefs and argue about them, rather than to truly ask a question or seek guidance on the question of "why Christians don't believe in evolution". That's what I meant when I said your post was bait.
And to be clear, I agree with you that man's bipartisan nature is bullshit. It always bothers me to see our natural instinct is to pick a side and hold on, whether that be religion, sports, or politics.
>>16874432 Try actually majoring in biology. There are tons of explanations for micro evolution. You never assume anything about a scale you cant observe. Relativity, quantum mechanics, gravity. All of this literally says never assume things work inductively. You have to be retarded to assume it does. >>16874427 There are no fossil records. If you really want to go there the homo sapiens we have today did not derive from neanderthals. >>16874429 You can make all the assumptions you want. But assuming it is fact is retarded.
>>16874459 Evolution does not have to entail macro evolution. There are plenty of explanations for micro evolution that do just that. Thats just being retarded and drawing things out to scales you have no idea what you are talking about. >hey guys gravity pulls at 10m/s >so given enough time you can surpass the speed of light This is what macro evolution advocates sound like.
>>16874475 there are an extremely large number of fossils of extinct species to the point that the current level of biodiversity is less than 1% of all species that have ever existed, meanwhile all currently living species have very clearly datable points in time when their fossils first appear.
How can you look at this and say there is no fossil record, I don't understand.
>>16874482 Fossils of extinct species do not advocate for evolution. Evolution is just an assumption about them and you are trying to pass that off as fact. The earth used to be more accommodating as well. >meanwhile all currently living species have very clearly datable points in time when their fossils first appear. So finding evidence of macroevolution should be easy right. >>16874488 If you are going to use induction, you have to prove its a well ordered set first. Math 101. We try to use it despite that and we are proven wrong time and time again.
>>16874504 Yes, it has everything to do with it. t. math major > If a set is well ordered (or even if it merely admits a well-founded relation), the proof technique of transfinite induction can be used to prove that a given statement is true for all elements of the set. I shouldnt have to be explaining basic facts to people. Induction is flawless, we just apply it to cases we shouldnt.
>>16874512 that is a totally different type of induction m8
>Although its name may suggest otherwise, mathematical induction should not be misconstrued as a form of inductive reasoning (also see Problem of induction). Mathematical induction is an inference rule used in proofs. In mathematics, proofs including those using mathematical induction are examples of deductive reasoning, and inductive reasoning is excluded from proofs
>>16874518 Thats the induction Im talking about. Inductive reasoning is just wrong. Theres not much to talk about there. An intro epistemology class will teach you that. It has no place in science and is why we made the mistake of assuming classic mechanics worked on large scale. Thankfully we learned not to be retarded and apply it to gravity. But it seems there are still retards applying it in the field of biology.
>>16874344 >So my question is, why do christians in general refute evolution when it makes perfect sense? A majority do not. Catholics and the Orthodox are organized in their acceptance of evolution, and most protestant groups accept it as well.
>>16874502 Okay. No. If I wasn't drunk I wouldn't be spending my time trying to educate you but here we are.
The most basic genetic analysis relies upon evolution as a fundamental assumption. I don't imagine you know how DNA, basic biochemistry, or replication error rates work so I won't blather on about it all... but I promise you, it's only your lack of education that makes you think evolution is anything but proven fact.
How do you think they can estimate when the last bottleneck in human population size was? Do a little reading about how that works.
When you see that not only does evolution explain what we see around us, but in fact a theory that was developed long before we even suspected that DNA might exist is further strengthened with every single genome we read I hope you will be able to come to terms with the fact your ignorance is the only thing that kept you from accepting that reality does include evolution.
Or not. Whichever.
Seriously. Bioinformatics. Check that shit out. You sound like one of those guys telling me how the earth is flat and I just need to accept the evidence while I reply on satellite internet.
>>16874539 No you just sound like a retard advocating that the universe operates on classic mechanics. Yeah classic mechanics will give you a fairly accurate scale of the things we observe, but the moment you try to expand that to larger scales thats just you being retarded. There are many theories that are alternatives to evolution in the sense that you are using it. No one is going to deny that there are small changes in things. Hell thats why there are different races. But to expand on that scale is just retarded. You seem to have a point about mutation. Where were you going with it.
>>16874545 Literally anything that doesnt deal with well ordered sets. ANYTHING. Start with set theory. The practice is to model everything with it. And its a really annoying chore to create and inductive set for your type of math. But not every set is an inductive one.
>>16874548 Does it matter which. Just because we dont have any good alternative to how gravity works, we arent stupid enough to assume that our best theory of gravity that works in 99.99% of the cases works on small unobservable scales. Why are you being retarded when it comes to biology. Its okay to say you dont know.
>>16874562 >I cant read Im literally saying we shouldnt apply gravity to micro scales just like you are trying to apply evolution to macro scales you have to way of observing. Dont make assumptions you have no idea what you are talking about with. Its shitty science. Thankfully physicist arent this retarded.
>>16874546 Nope. You're stupid. Homology isn't complicated or abstract. Check out stochastic models for determining what genes and thus macroscopic biological structures are related - eg. homologous.
Check out how you can see differing mutation rates in genes relative to the background mutation rate in non-coding regions. This isn't even hard. The trouble is you're talking about evolutionary biology like a fucking carpenter talking about aeronautics. You just don't have the education to even discuss why you're confused.
compare the ways homologous proteins do similar jobs in organisms despite changes in their sequence.
I won't get any deeper into this because like I said, I might as well be discussing car mechanics with an art history major. The fact you don't understand it doesn't make you right, it just makes you ignorant and I'm too drunk to play with you right now.
>>16874200 Are you Christian because you were indoctrinated since birth or a child?
Personally I dislike religion (for myself) but I'm fine with people practicing any religion without imposing their personal beliefs and values onto others. Or using religion in attempt to control or restrict others' lives or pursuit of happiness.
I don't know I just believe in the seperation of church and state.
>>16874556 I'm pretty sure you just dodged a question there.
If you don't support "macro evolution" what is it that you DO support? How do you explain all the diversity in species on earth, both living and extinct? (Not rhetorical, mind you. I'm curious as to what you do believe.)
>>16874568 If you see a video of a guy robbing a store and shooting a clerk, do you let the guy walk free because the camera only take 10 frames a second? I mean sure, one frame you see the guy holding a gun, and the next frame you see blood bursting out of the poor bastards chest, but you have no idea that he actually fired the bullet!
>>16874569 Bro I was in grad school for biochemical engineering before I switched to what Im doing now and I have several other degrees that I guarantee you makes me more knowledgeable than you overall. You could know more about this specific topic, but I know enough to call you out on your bullshit. You dont know what you are talking about. What pisses me off most is how biologist try to sell their assumptions as fact. Use it for what it works for. Dont expand to ridiculous scales.
You can design all the sythetic pathways for biological molecules you want and you can't "call me out on my bullshit" when you don't seem to have even studied basic population genetics. Define homology for me. Then go do some basic reading on how homologous proteins are determined to in fact be homologous.
It's all just math. The interesting thing is the math seems to support evolutionary theory in every single case. And if proteins seem to abstract you can look at homology in macroscopic structures as well, though that feels a little less well defined to me.
>>16874441 >>16874448 For me at least my religion is something I feel in my gut as true. There's a reason it's talked about in terms of Faith and Belief. For people who have found religion on their own terms your question is the same as asking why you love your gf. Sure you could talk about her cute hair and friendly personality but in reality it's just something intangible that you know and feel deep down
>>16874587 blargh. Too many tequilas for this... but I'll try.
Homologous means that two things - biological structures, genetic sequences, protein sequences - are descended from a common ancestor. (So you might say the five digits on the human hand are homologous to the digits on the hand of a chimp, or hey, the five bones that extend through a manatee's flipper, whatever).
Proteins as they exist in the human body or the bodies of other critters are strings of amino acids that fold up into fancy three dimensional structures that then carry out various tasks from being a structural part of a membrane to having some enzymatic activity. Basically they are 'nano machines' that do all the shit your body needs done.
Some of the most beautiful examples of this are between extremely distantly related species - like the version of slicer and dicer found in archeal genomes versus what you see in bacterial or mammalian genomes where the sequence has mutated almost beyond recognition but you can see they still maintain the same rough structure and the same catalytic sites.
I'm sorry I can't give you better than this tonight but seriously. Too many tequilas.
In summary - related structures doing related shit. And the genes involved? You can tell they're related by modeling the sequence of DNA that codes for the structure and how likely they both arose as derivatives of a third sequence (that the sequences are homologous)
>>16874575 Science doesnt good answers. Just an analysis of data presented. There are a ton of assumptions you have to make to say that he fired the bullet. Assumptions are safe on scales you know they work on. But say that video only played at 1 frame per hour. >>16874573 I didnt dodge the question. You just are missing the point Im advocating. We DONT know how gravity works on microscales. Sure we have a model for macro scales, but we arent retarded enough to say it works for microscales we cant confirm it. The higgs has been theorized for the longest time with a lot of evidence for it. It wasnt considered fact until it was found. Why are physicist the only ones not being retarded.
>>16874608 >Anyone who doesnt take my assumptions as fact doesnt know what Im talking about Stick to observable scales and no one has a problem. Im not about to argue credentials with you because you really seem to think you bs is fact. >The interesting thing is the math seems to support evolutionary theory in every single case Induction supports whatever you want when you do it wrong.
>>16874612 If you use gut feeling as a measure of truth Scientology and Islam are just as legitimate as your own. However thats a pretty big issue given that their doctrines are mutually exclusive.
>For people who have found religion on their own terms your question is the same as asking why you love your gf. Sure you could talk about her cute hair and friendly personality but in reality it's just something intangible that you know and feel deep down
Just because you personally dont know how to express something does not mean it cannot be expressed.
>>16874642 No.. not induction. I meant stochastic processes.. Using calculus or markov models typically... naive Bayes models work well as classifiers.... What is it you're doing now that you flunked out of your engineering masters anyway?
I'm sorry you can't see proteins so you don't believe in them. Or DNA I guess? What are you even talking about now?
Maybe just explain the similarity in the number of 'finger' bones in the flippers of a manatee and a human hand.
>>16874647 Am I missing the point, or have I read and considered your previous posts, and not been swayed? Remember, it is burden of the claimant to provide proof. I am a reasonable and intelligent person, and while I can tell you've devoted time to the study of this subject, I can also tell you've made a lot of assumptions based on the nature of your post.
Why won't you answer the question? Will it derail the statements you've previously made?
>>16874669 You are literally missing the point. The answer to the question is wholeheartedly unrelated to the point Im am trying to make. In fact actually answering the question goes against what I am saying. You dont rely on any theory for microscopic gravity. You accept you dont know. To do otherwise is ridiculous.
>>16874646 Oh sure! But I think anyone who claims to know with 100% certainty that their belief system is the right one is super conceited and arrogant. Maybe mine is wrong, maybe theirs is right, maybe everyone is wrong, maybe nobody's found the truth yet. My religion speaks to me which is why I believe in it. All eight billion people on this earth are just as confident they know The Truth as I am. KNOWING I'm factually and scientifically correct would require some crazy ass proof that obviously nobody anywhere has. In the meantime I'll keep doing what I think is right because why wouldn't I?
Also it doesn't mean it can't be expressed but that doesn't necessarily mean it can be either
My question is, If every religious person is just making their own interpretation of the written scriptures and applying it to their own lives (or passing it down to others to interpret) as they see fit, then can religion ever actually exist as the unified belief system it's is passed off as? Or did God intentionally pass down an arbitrary imperfect system of values and words for mankind to do as they will with? If so.. what would the point of that be? Why would a system be presented as a unified one when it is designed to segregate? Surely.. if God was all mighty and all knowing and all powerful, then the message/guidelines passed down could have been written in a way that was absolute, succinct, concise and fool proof so that everyone could understand it clearly. Right? I mean.. Even the DMV can write a set of road rules that is easy to understand, and that was made up by humans.
>>16874692 What annoys me most is how uninformed Christians are about other religions. At the core, christianity/islam/judaism are all the same. Theres just some disagreements with christianity being the furthest off. If you remove the triumvirate christians than the religions are all incredibly close. Now as for the none monotheistic religions, polytheism is fairly ridiculous and no one in our current day actually believes in it. Take japan for instance, they dont really believe in polytheism. Its more like a belief in spirits. Buddhism doesnt have a god and its message can be applied to any other religion. Just that buddhism seems fundamentally extreme and crazy.
>>16874469 The real problem with this is that micro evolution leads to macro evolution over millions of years. T-rex is related the chicken according to bone structure it just took many many generations and natural selection. No longer could it be a predator that was far too large and now it is the prey of us humans.
>>16874707 Macro evolution is a theory just like string theory is one. Both are perfectly valid but to some extent the joke that its just a guess is true. Most physicist dont believe in string theory. Its the best theory we have to unify everything, but people dont go around selling it as fact because its on a scale unobservable and we can only draw inferences and make predictions from it. But do to the nature of science vs religion arguments, people begin to argue the evolution is FACT. That not believing it is crazy. This is what triggers me. Its similar to the big bang argument there as well. People tout it as the start of the universe ignoring the whole observable universe part.
>>16874612 This seems reasonable to me, to a certain degree. Some internal force within the individual is drawn to a specific belief that they are exposed to and you feel compelled to follow it.
This wouldn't be a problem of certain religions were not so easily weaponized and used to manipulate people. If all men kept their spiritual beliefs to themselves unless asked, it would be one thing. But a key part of western religion is to reach out and attract more followers. And that certainly seems like a worldly cause.
I think at the core of what you're saying is something I've struggled to put in to words for years. It's something like, "We are imperfect people, trying to discuss and define perfect metaphysical concepts that are beyond our scope of understanding." Like, we can talk about these things, but it's the blank spots where we get hung up. We're defensive of our ignorance.
>>16874725 Comparing evolution to string theory is absolutely laughable. Evolution is simple and intuitive enough that it can be explained to eight-year-old children. It's also universally accepted amongst scientists. String theory is unintuitive, requires a huge amount of background knowledge to even begin to understand, is still hotly controversial, and is still very much developing, whereas have a century's worth of hard evidence for the veracity of the theory of evolution and none of the charges leveled at it have yet to be answered. >People tout it as the start of the universe ignoring the whole observable universe part. This is literally meaningless.
>>16874729 >How long before we break light speed. Because if we accelerate for long enough we should double it. Assuming you're being sarcastic, I have absolutely no idea how this analogy works in your head.
>>16874692 >Oh sure! But I think anyone who claims to know with 100% certainty that their belief system is the right one is super conceited and arrogant.
When you settle for one after barely any effort or research you are equally as conceited and arrogant as those types even if you are only 97%. You say they may be wrong or right but you certainly do not live that way.
> KNOWING I'm factually and scientifically correct would require some crazy ass proof that obviously nobody anywhere has.
Or it would require you to actually start looking and questioning.
>In the meantime I'll keep doing what I think is right because why wouldn't I?
Because you aren't arrogant and conceited enough to arbitrarily declare that because a perfect answer isn't immediately available you are justifyed in saying that your lifestlye has legitimacy.
>>16874740 I dont understand why its so hard to say we dont know. Youd think after quantum mechanics trolled everyone the world would be more humble but it just feels like only physicist learned the lesson here.
>>16874732 Yeah, that's definitely the kicker. I can read the Bible and passages of love and respect and self-sacrifice for others speak to me, but someone else can just as easily read it and come away with a "nuke all foreigners and unbelievers to hell because that's where they belong" attitude. The idea of an eternal hell can absolutely give anyone a terrible case of savior complex. Unfortunately I don't have any great answer to that. I guess that's just the danger of free will, people can interpret anything as they see fit
>>16874732 > This seems reasonable to me, to a certain degree. Some internal force within the individual is drawn to a specific belief that they are exposed to and you feel compelled to follow it.
How would you distinigush this from a persons political beliefs or desire to have sex with minors?
>This wouldn't be a problem of certain religions were not so easily weaponized and used to manipulate people. If all men kept their spiritual beliefs to themselves unless asked, it would be one thing. But a key part of western religion is to reach out and attract more followers. And that certainly seems like a worldly cause.
>If all people had spiritual beliefs that alligned with mine there wouldnt be any problems!
>>16874748 Yeah I do live that way actually, thanks. I looked into multiple religions and denominations and while I'm following the one that makes the most sense to me, if something else comes along I won't hesitate to take it. After all, keeping an open mind is how I got to where I am now. I haven't finished my journey until I'm dead in the ground. Why would I stop looking for the next ledge, if there is one? Don't assume things about people, it makes you look, wait for it, arrogant and conceited
>>16874784 >She's upset because her church doesn't allow women in leadership positions, and she doesn't like it because she wants to be in a leadership position.
If you are a bad friend tell her to go anglican. If you are a good friend tell her that rules like this were created out of Gods love and understanding of us as humans and that even though it might not seem like it we are genuilney better off following that rule.
>>16874784 >She's upset because her church doesn't allow women in leadership positions If you by into the whole brain differences between men and women and neural pathways, men are better leaders than women.
>>16874999 Jesus died so that we could forgive each other for our sins. God will still judge us and you are going to fry. >I didn't choose to have these urges. You can call it a test. And you failed. And the punishment for failing is frying for eternity. >And love hurts no one If you think God only cares about if you are hurting someone then you are in for a sad surprise when you first get put in the fryer.
>>16875043 But Mary didn't do those things... And she was a downright dirty filthy slut of a whore who gets referred to as a virgin now. Isn't that hypocritical? Plus.. If God will judge then why are you judging?
>>16875122 Oh he will burn in hell for eternity. Clearly laid out by God. Im not the one sentencing people, just stating the punishment for breaking the law. Id be guilty if I didnt inform you when given the chance. And you dont know the quote nor understand the quote you are bastardizing.
>>16875177 Of course I dont drink. Why would I put toxins in my body. And as far as other christians go, it comes for a statement made by Jesus. Your interpretation vs his words. Which do you think holds up.
>>16875210 Most atheists you will have met, you won't even know they are atheists. You have just met some edgelords, and then mistakenly assume that all atheists are like that. Which is absolutely not true.
>>16875185 Answer the questions please. They are simple to answer yet you choose to respond with vague question that has multiple arbitrary answers. >do other Christians get drunk? >do other Christians eat pork?
>>16875231 I know because in the environments Im taking into consideration the religious affiliation matters. Do you think I just talk about religion on 4chan. Its also possible that they could be religious and just playing atheist though.
>>16874200 Non-believer here with questions. 1. Does believing in god help you feel like your never alone? Kinda like.. you always have a friend who's got your back? 2. Do you pray and go to church? Do you like it? Do you feel closer to your god? 3. Do you believe the bible is true? Not the moral codes that it promotes but in all the people who written it, do you think they were telling the truth? 4. What is your view of heaven? What do you think it's like?
And finally, what is your view on science? In particular biology and physics.
>>16875244 No, a huge chunk of my money goes into food because organic stuff is so expensive. But I make enough to support it comfortably. I only do so when my hand is forced. Like Im in a foreign environment and need to eat a salad or something.
>>16875242 Circular logic and avoiding the question to deny the truth. It's a simple yes or no answer. And you can't answer it because you refuse to accept the truth. There's a term used for people who have a cognitive bias towards their own knowledge and fight to protect their own ignorance without being aware of it. His attitude usually breeds in other ignorant people they talk to. You are a dangerous person. You should reverse lookup that loose vague definition. The answer is clear, and much more.
>>16875246 >Does believing in god help you feel like your never alone? Kinda like.. you always have a friend who's got your back? Hmmm not really. I dont really feel like Im alone though. If anything its more embarrassing. Just think that every time you fap hes watching over you. > Do you pray and go to church? Do you like it? Do you feel closer to your god? Yes. Prayer is really important to me. I hate when god slips my mind and I only remember him when Im in trouble. This plague me as a child and I was too ashamed to pray in my toughest moments because of it. I see it as more of a dialogue usually filled with my appreciation and willing to accept his will. >Do you believe the bible is true? Yes >do you think they were telling the truth? Do you think they were lying? I mean we have terms to explain things better now than they did. And speaking metaphorically was a bigger deal to them than to us. >What is your view of heaven? A place where one can bask in Gods presence. >what is your view on science? theres nothing contradictory with them. But I need hard evidence to accept theories in general. After studying physics in college (major) if I took anything away from it, it would be that we dont really understand anything. But we are working on it.
>>16875260 Ive spent 5 years living with a few atheist and I make an effort to engage in dialog about religion when the chance comes up with people if the time and place are right (we are already discussing something religious). It just seems more like you are unhappy with the result and wish to judge me.
>>16875265 Mate.. This isn't about MY interpretation.. This is about yours. You are the one who doesn't put toxins in his body. You don't eat pork (or meat for that matter), you don't drink alcohol, you try your best to eat organic foods. Why is this?
>>16875280 This is completely unrelated to religion. I love my body and wish to keep it it the best condition possible. I can feel when the difference when I intake toxic items. Its hard to explain. Maybe Im more susceptible to them or Im just more aware of them.
Feels like I'm back in my freshman Intro to Science and Religion course. No academic religious scholars deny the science of evolution and other established phenomenon. Stop reading books by pseudo-intellectual evangelicals. Those people aren't taken seriously by any true theologian.
Why can't the one guy from my biology lectures who approaches me to talk NOT invite me to Christian Union shit Why do they want me to read John's gospel and shit Why is this guy telling me the bible is more important than my studies because it decides the afterlife and blahblah holy shit I thought Christians were the cool non-annoying guys nice job
I used to be really deep into the church, the bible, and Jesus. Now I find myself moving further and further away from it. I've been burned bad by so many Christians for being different and disagreeing and asking questions.. it's pretty discouraging when someone asks a question and someone says, "pray about it."
Like. Really? But I asked YOU.
Anyway. I'm sad, meng. Did I ever believe on God? Did I waste all of those years?
Unfortunately, they were the most happy and comfortable I have ever been with myself during that time.
Now I'm a mess. Smoking pot everyday, not eating, ignoring the people I love.
>>16875650 Hey there, Anon. I'm not a Christian, but I've been in the same situation you're in. I'll share my thoughts with you, but that's all that they are. It's not guaranteed that it will be the answer you're looking for.
I was raised in the church. I read my bible every day, I went to a private school, and I went to church three times a week. I was obsessed with "Living in the glory of god" and living a life "for" Christ. But as I got older, I saw a lot of flaws in the ideology. Instead of being a rebelious teen, I went to my parents and my church and asked them sincere questions, asking for answers from inside and outside the bible. There were always three answers that bothered me. Pray about it, God just works in mysterious ways, and you can't use "worldly" logic to describe holy things!
This bothered me a lot. It felt strange that I could see logical flaws and "know in my heart" that the things going on around me were just people influencing one another, yet everyone else seemed oblivious to it. I guess the breaking point was when I asked my pastor about the nature of man, and free will. If it exists, what the implications are if it does or doesn't, why god could "harden the heart" of pharoah, and how it made sense that an infinite being could pass judgement on his finite creations. Questions like this got everyone at my church BTFO, foreal. So eventually I was told to shut up and just pay my tithe.
To me, the answer is simple: It is the right and duty of every man, to gather what he can from his life, and to choose the path that is most logical to him. What is morally right and wrong comes naturally to most people. You don't have to live a life "for" Christ. You don't even have to live a life "about" Christ. You should try to live a life "Like" Christ. Everything else is bullshit.
Just look around you. It doesn't take much to stand out or be important in other people's lives. Just don't be an asshole. That's it.
>>16875650 Anon, don't listen to the fuckwit below. He is telling you you're sad because you are far from God, and that to be happy you have to stop trying to understand God (be further from God). That makes no sense. He is literally asking you to be stupid and subservient. You want questions answered but they tell you not to ask questions... Because there are no absolute answers.
Anon, you are fine. Feel what you want to feel, what you find and accept is all valid for yourself. Other people's answers may not be your answers. The inclusion of God or religion in this equation is irrelevant.
Depression is normal for a lot of people to go through and you'll find a way out of it. Be around people who care and support and accept whatever type of person you are. One by one, try to think of the positive things in situations you would normally associate with being negative.
Even read and give some advice on /adv/ and the thanks you get mitt help you feel better.
>>16875695 Your logic and comprehension is broken. You are ignorant and delusional. Please stop talking to people.
>>16875449 see>>16875037 You are going to fry. My sins are mild and Im fairly repentant for them. Im not foolish enough to think that I can sin and get away with it. We will all face judgment one day. Prepare to fry though.
>>16876823 Of course they are going to be punished. Its scarier than convenient. I mean if I could do bad things and get away with it that would be great. Instead I have to try to do good things, still end up doing bad things and feeling bad about it only to be punished later for it.
>>16878012 The most logical scenario here is that when YOU meet your judgement and if there is a God he will say to you - 'What the fuck dude? Are you that stupid to believe the Chinese whispers people have spoken about me over the years? I put you on this earth to figure your own shit out but you go ahead and believe stuff that's OBVIOUSLY utter nonsense. Why would I.. God.. put people through the kind of troubles you put yourself through in my name? And then you go and spout this nonsense to your fellow man and spread your own misguided words. Through your ignorance you are giving me a bad name. You are not a leader for people to follow. How dare you think that you are. You make me embarrassed that I ever created man in the first place..'
>>16878106 >you are being too facetious No, I am being sensible and logical. The only thing I've taken liberty with is that God might speak with the colloquialism of a modern day human. And why not? I'd be supremely pissed if I was God and found out people like you were strutting around speaking on my behalf.
>>16878125 You have assumptions about God as if he fits the image you want him to have. Ask yourself this. Why would god create you so you can do whatever the fuck you want and not believe in him. You probably have this idea that god is 100% selfless and only acts to appease you to the point of being a ghost. That kind of projection is most sickening but hilarious to think about.
>>16878131 Why don't you answer my first question here?>>16874704 If you are the same anon I think you are, all you've done is sidestep important questions with 'the answer is there' 'the answer is simple' without actually being able to provide an answer yourself. You're a self referential joke in a cyclical loop. Yes I have assumptions about God. Everyone has assumptions about God. So do you, but you refuse to admit it to yourself. Let it go. Ease up on the mystery and accept that your religion is just your own personal view of here-say carried down over the last couple of millennia. It is literally impossible to believe in something absolutely if it doesn't have clear and concise definition.
>>16878257 I dont know what the hell you are talking about but reading that post just sounds like someone who wants their hand held. I dont believe God has any intention of holding our hands more than necessary.
Also For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
>>16878291 Thats quite the liberal misuse. Doesnt change the part about frying and destroying all the faggots. You realize that faggots are put to death immediately according to christian law as ordain by god so that they may fry for all eternity.
>>16874536 This isn't quite correct. Both the Catholic church and many of the Eastern Rite churches accept that evolution may be a valid theory, but the official position of the churches that fall under Rome's umbrella is that there is no official position on the matter, it being a mechanical issue.
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